The title of this recording is "Wellington Gay and Lesbian Helpline". It is described as: Chris Pugsley and Jo Morrison talk about the history and activities of the Wellington Gay and Lesbian Helpline. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 10th September 2010. This is an interview with Chris Pugsley and Jo Morrison. The interviewer is Wai Ho. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 29 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Chris Pugsley and Jo Morrison talk about the history and activities of the Wellington Gay and Lesbian Helpline. The content in the recording covers the decades 1970s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: This summary provides an overview of an audio recording from a podcast titled "Wellington Gay and Lesbian Helpline," in which Chris Pugsley and Jo Morrison discuss the origins and evolution of the Wellington Gay and Lesbian Helpline, its services, and its importance to the LGBTQ+ community. The interview, conducted by Wai Ho, took place on September 10, 2010, and covers developments in the group from the 1990s through the 2010s. The Wellington Gay Welfare Group, also known as the Gay Helpline, was established roughly 30 years prior to the interview and began as an underground operation with no public profile. Initially set up before the homosexual law reform, it offered a crucial point of contact for the gay community, at a time where there were limited options for making connections. Over time, the group adapted to changes in communication technology, incorporating websites, email, and social media to supplement the telephone helpline service. Initially a men's only group, the organization's founders recognized the need for a supportive network within the gay community. Though not providing formal counseling, the helpline served as an information and support service, where calls primarily concerned personal issues relating to sexuality and relationships. Outreach to the community has also changed, with a decrease in social events the group once played a role in. The organization evolved to include a diverse range of support groups including those tailored towards youth and transgender individuals, and to offer assistance with navigating government departments or locating gay-friendly professionals. Chris Pugsley, who had been involved for over a decade, explained how the group's focus shifted from predominantly serving gay men to becoming more inclusive, incorporating women and facilitating their participation in the group. Jo Morrison, who returned to Wellington after living abroad, sought to contribute to the community and address the needs of people new to the area or coming out. Jo has helped facilitate drop-in groups catering to a variety of individuals, including those contemplating their sexual orientation, seeking a sense of community or simply new to the region. This reflects the helpline's broader expansion to assist a wider segment of the queer community. Towards the end of the 29-minute recording, the conversation touches upon the notion that homophobia remains a prevalent issue despite social progress and legal reforms, highlighting the continued relevance and necessity for support groups like the Wellington Gay Welfare Group. Both Pugsley and Morrison speak of the personal satisfaction derived from volunteering, emphasizing the sense of giving back to a community that has supported them in the past. The full transcription of the recording begins:  So I'm here with Chris Pugsley and Joe Morrison, who are the co chairs of Wellington Gay Welfare Group. Um, also called Gay Helpline, and probably quite a number of other other words labelled, um, Chris, can you tell me a little bit about what gay helpline or gay Wellington gay welfare group is and how it started and etcetera, Yeah, the group started about 30 years ago, and in those days it was very sort of undercover. I suppose it was not very public. It wasn't, um, wasn't advertising where it worked from and we didn't have websites. Of course, over the years, it's, um it's still very much involved with telephone helpline work. But as people have moved into wanting other ways of communication, like websites and also groups that we've always run, um, it's actually changed quite a lot from the original helpline from 30 years ago. So did it get set up before homosexual law reform? Yes. Yeah, got got set up before that. And it was really I suppose the only I wasn't involved then. So, uh, from from what I've been hearing from people who were, it was really the only place that people could get in touch with other gay people other than I think classified adverts is a whole lot of, you know, very what seemed very old fashioned ways of getting in touch, um, for advice and help. And then, of course, there's a whole bunch of sort of different social social venues that people got together in. But, um, yeah, and do you know who set it up and what was the need to set it up? Because I guess it would have been not maybe illegal, but I guess a slightly illegal organisation to set up, you know, pre law reform, I think I. I know. I'm not sure who did Set set up. I think it's a basically a group of gay men who just saw a need in the community for somewhere for people to get in touch. And I think it just built from there and and it built, I think, from demand. People rang up. They rang up much more probably than they do now because there's so many other ways of getting in touch with other groups. And in those days it was the only group. Yeah, not having the Internet to do you know, go search for a playmate. Yeah, and I think that I think that it, um it also got involved with some social groups. There was lots of linkages in the people running the various sort of clubs and bars and and the places where gay men. Because it was in those days, it was a A men only group. Um, where men hung out together as as as as a queer group was very much linked to the helpline. And when I joined about 12, 14 years ago, something like that. There was a lot of, um, work with other groups like University Queer Group was, um, running parties at that stage. And we we used to run the bar because of the fact that students weren't old enough to run bars. It was just a just a licencing requirement. And so I think that's where that started from. And so there was a lot more sort of diversity in some ways of the integration with the rest of the community than there is now. We we tend now to to run groups, and we run a telephone answering service and we have a website and email, and those sorts of forms of communication. Facebook. And so we still have a fairly diverse way of getting in touch with people. But I think the other ways that we used to, through social events and parties have more or less dropped off to nothing. So is that just an information line? Or is there Is it a counselling service? Or what do people usually want want when they ring up? Yeah, well, I think I think we're always a bit cautious about counselling because I think people have different ideas. What counselling is about? We? We We are not qualified counsellors. Largely. There's a few people on our group that are, but yeah, we're there to listen. We're there to give information. But most of the calls are actually about talking through issues that people have about their sexuality, their relationships. Sometimes it's it's just engaging with bureaucracy and government departments and and maybe finding out, um, you know, gay friendly professionals, those sorts of things, not so much the party and the things that used to be, I think much more common sort of short calls, short information calls. And I think the, um the fact that with safe sex and and a lot of sexual health. There's lots of other organisations out there that, um people know about and their contact. So a lot of those calls, we don't get some money off. So it used to traditionally well, when it got set up a gay men's group or a gay men's organisation. It's obviously not just a gay men's organisation anymore. Um, what's your involvement been like Joe? Um Well, I decided to get involved because I moved back here. I came out as a lesbian in, uh, the early eighties. So in New Zealand, in Wellington. So things were quite different back then. And we did have a lesbian centre on Cuba Street, and, um so there were ways of meeting lesbians if you were brave enough, Um, because it was Were you brave enough? Just, um Yeah, I moved up to Auckland pretty quickly, I think. Because I think, um, I had a feeling that maybe it was, you know, people were a bit more flexible and open minded up there. Probably wrong, but yeah, no, I knew a lot of separatist women down here at the time. Luckily, I had a link in because a good friend of mine is, um, as a as a cousin by marriage. So, Brenda, we and she's a very, um yeah, so socially motivated to to organise things. And she still does that, you know, to this day. So I was very fortunate to have somebody like that, um, to to nick me in. Um, and there have always been women have been quite organised. Um, because we are, you know, I guess because of the isolation and things, um, in general. So they've always had a lesbian help line, you know? I mean, it's maybe go for a couple of years and then die off, and then another bunch of women will start it up. So this isn't the first. But when I moved back here, um, having been away for 23 years at least, um, in Vancouver. I just thought OK, what? You know what's happening now in Wellington for people that are immigrants or or new to New Zealand and And also then what's happening with people that are just coming out? So that's how I tapped in? Yeah. And then I, um I offered to facilitate actually co facilitate because I brought a friend in who admit she had just moved back with her partner from the UK. So we all just moved here. So we decided to do that together to co facilitate co facilitate a drop in group for queer women or, um, lesbians that are just coming out. Or we try to be as we try to be, as inclusive as we can be, Um, and for women that are just new to the area. So most of my calls, well, half and half. So my email is out there, and half and half are women that are just coming down to Wellington, you know, like for example, I have a email from a German woman that just arrived here and sort of said, Are there any lesbians and where do I find them? In Wellington. And I go, Yeah, yeah, yeah. This this appears, I'll introduce you, You know, come to the next pine zone if you want to. It's kind of for older, but, you know, there'll be a few of us there that we can introduce you to some younger if you're younger and then the others are. You know, I'm just thinking about whether I'm bisexual. or, you know, I've had some fantasies about women. I think maybe, you know, I might want to come out. So we try and make it a group for both of those issues. Yeah. So helpline, um, is a phone line and has kind of networking capabilities like facebook, et cetera, and it's got a lesbian drop in group. Yeah, And what else? What other stuff do you do with the, um this a lot of, um, focus now on youth groups. So we've got schools out, which is part we we don't have hands on, um, sort of day to day work with all the groups. So with with schools out, we have a half time employee now, and we with other groups are just an umbrella organisation. And so we do a lot of the administration and fundraising. Um, we are an anchor, if you like, for those organisations. And so there's another group called Transform, which is a transgender group, um, again, mainly for young people, Um, and then for people over the age. Well, something like mid twenties, we we have a another sort of social group which, um, people can come to every couple of weeks and it's usually held in somebody's home and, um, certainly open to other groups being set up. So I think people need to think if they're they're interested in groups, you know, looking at organisations like ours as an umbrella group. So it saves a lot of the the setting up. The charter will trust the the Incorporated societies, the annual accounts, the A GM, the meetings. All that structure doesn't have to be part of every group, so groups can actually queer groups can, actually, if you like, be under, um, the overall banner of violence and Gay Welfare group, which is just a legal title that we, um we set up years back. And so, yes, that's that's how we we tend to function with other groups. How did this shift happen to being, I guess mostly or exclusively, even a gay man's group Gay male group to not being exclusively a gay man. Was it conscious, or did it just just happen or Well, I think I think the main thing was that as um as Joe was saying, there was a lesbian line group and over the years that was maintained amazingly, you know, consistently really by a very small group of people. But I think in the end, um, they decided well about 56 years ago that they couldn't really maintain the energy to keep advertising and all the other things you really need to do with a group like that. And, um, it was run quite informally. Whereas the Wellington Gay welfare groups always had a Constitution and a structure and a and A and A, I suppose, like those things I was saying before, there's a there's a sort of administrative back ground to it, and and usually there's been 2030 40 50 people. It depends associated with it. Whereas I think Lesbian Line was quite a small group of four or five people. And so we basically said, Well, if there's any of your current members want to join our group and we can then look at incorporating um, women into training and it it was a very gradual process, I think we we started off getting more calls from women, and I think as men we were always quite happy to talk to women, and if they were happy to talk to us, that that worked and, um Now we have women in the group and we have for the last, what, 34 years? Um, we've changed our rules, constitutional those sort of things to make them, um, inclusive of both genders. In fact, any any queer, any queer labelled group of people. We we've tried to sort of try and, you know, get rid of those sort of labels like that was a very written for men being in a in a men's gay organisation. And so that's that's changed. And, um, yeah, we we've we've now got women in the group, but we don't have any problems with the men taking calls from women and women Take calls from men and And if people definitely want to talk to a man or a woman, um, we just say, Well, look, call back in a couple of days and there's a man on duty that night or as woman on or whatever. So that's how the organisation really it did it. It was a slow evolution to include women, Um, because of the fact that there wasn't a women's lesbian line group. So some, like you hear kind of people saying, Oh, well, homosexual reform was quite a while ago now, and society's changed and there's, you know, there's no homophobia, blah, blah, blah, blah. What's your kind of take on that? Has, you know what has changed? And, uh, you know, our group still necessary and And, you know, what role do they serve or, well, definitely in the school system having, um when I first moved back here, I was teaching for a bit, and you still get heaps of homophobia and oppression. You know, every second I would happen to be in an intermediate school, won't say which one, but, um, every put down was Oh, that's so gay, blah, blah. And I would say, Excuse me, Choose another word. You know, some of my best friends are lesbians or, you know, I always had in the background. My mother is a lesbian. You know, that would really shock them. But that's true. Wouldn't be lying. Um, so definitely for those other kids. I was just so aware and sensitive about it because I knew that there at least be two kids in there that were actually struggling with their own identity. And, um, well, not just identity, but sexuality and orientation. So Um, yeah. No, it's still, um, it's still very relevant. And homophobia is still around. There's lots more acceptance, and Wellington is probably the most accepting political city in New Zealand and in most of the world. But that doesn't mean to say that you're not gonna shock somebody, or you're not going to get shut out of a group or shut out of the church or shut out of any kind of spiritual. Yeah, so there's lots of, um, places that were still the doors are still being shut. So we need that support and try and bring people in that are feeling isolated from their families or whatever. Yeah, so? Well, go welfare group, um, kind of umbrellas, Uh, couple of youth groups. So young Young, I guess. Yeah, for young people. And then one in the mid mid twenties. Yeah, there was a group called Newcomers. It's a beaten call that for a long time we we we keep thinking we ought to try and come up. Don't we have one now in the early 20 the the BG LGBT sandwich. Now that's That's a group which, which actually spun out from schools out, as as people got older and schools out because there are 14 year olds in the main group, the tertiary education sort of group sort of 18 to 18, 20 years. 25 is that group. And then the newcomers group I was just mentioning before is the 25 and over group, which we run ourselves, Um, as it were with the the regular members of the helpline Um, helping out with the meetings there and what would be the average age of the lesbian drop in group for people? Are people newly coming out there as well as just being new to Wellington Or, uh, we definitely have, you know, 1920 year olds. And then we have 50 something year olds. I'm just trying to think who the oldest. So it's quite it fluctuates from week to week, and, um, it's quite mixed. Yeah, So if the calls that, um, helpline takes are older people coming out as well, or is it just younger people coming out or what's what's what's going on? Lesbians? Definitely. You know, um, one of our people in our group right now should be in her early forties who might be 40 been living with her long time male partner for a while and in the last year and a half has decided, you know, that she wants. She'd rather you know. She's finding that she she's finding herself more attracted to women. So she's had to. It's a huge loss and big, um, stuff going down because they're gonna have to split the house and their families and all of that, because they've been together for 16 years. But she's been really honest, but she's also taking her time. And and unlike me, where I need a catalyst, I'd probably need you know, I can't. It's hard for me to relate because I'd have to actually fall in love with someone to make all those shifts because they're hard work for her. You know, she's been very mindful and, um, and respectful about it and taking her time. But so she really counts on coming to our group just about every week, and it is really emotional. She'll have a good cry because it's tough and coming out to a few workmates at a time, and a few people in her family and you know, but having to break away from something that's so familiar. And do you know if there are still older men coming out or helpline or Yeah, I think that there's a very wide age range of people who call us. We get calls from 14 15 year olds who often have issues to do. Um, as much with what you were just saying, You know, homophobia in schools. But often it's It's to do with families and and and getting help from government agencies. It's it's how to deal with social welfare, how to you know where to go and who to see. We don't obviously, you know, try and make out we we can actually help directly. But we we have people we know work for organisations We we can, um we can put them in touch with the schools out group. Um so they can go and meet other people. Um, even if that wasn't the reason for the call and and quite often when people call, they have one question they really want to get an answer for. But then when you get into the conversation and they start talking more about the rest of their life and how it's all panning out, you realise that there's a lot of stuff which they do want to talk about. And people like that often hadn't really thought about groups because they don't know the groups exist. So you should say, Well, look, why don't why don't you sort of think about it and you know, somebody? We'll either get back to you if you want to have a chat about with the facilitators of schools out or just turn up to a meeting, You know, and and I think that, um, yeah, I think that we still have that role I think of, of being there, to listen to people's calls and and and and try and try and sort of find out some other background material when you're actually having that conversation with them, to try and get them to tease out maybe some stuff they hadn't actually articulated or thought about. And, um, and I think that will always be there. I think there's lots of other ways of finding out that information from the Internet and, um, you know, social social network sites going to, you know, only one gay, two gay bars, two gay spaces. I mean, they're still there. Um, so There's still lots of ways of actually finding out. But I think that conversation a 1 to 1 conversation on a telephone is still just as valid as it was in the 19 seventies eighties. Because it's a it's an anonymous. It's not a face to face meeting. It's anonymous, it's it's It's more interactive in many ways than a computer system. It's a There's a conversation, which is what we as humans are very good at, and the person on the other end may not have all the answers. And we don't you know, as as helpline as we all have. Different information, different skills, different backgrounds. And so we're not there as a, um, you know, solve all your problems type service. We're there to listen and they can call back every night and just talk to somebody else, which is always, always good, get a different different person on the end of the phone, different way of approaching the problem. So, yeah, I. I still think it's a very important, um, ability to actually, um, have that in the the community wider community to speak to a person rather than a computer, a computer. And I think you know, And that's why I think it appeals to all ages because, you know, young people maybe aren't so used to telephones and, you know, maybe they're much more reliant on on texting and and messaging on computer systems. But actually, you know, it's not like a huge step. And I think that, um, the schools, like facilitators do an awful lot of text messaging and they've got their own, um, call number. Of course, they they don't have to all come through us so people can talk to schools out facilitator directly through texting. And so it's not like people have to step outside of the comfort zone. They can send us emails, they can look at our website, they can look at Facebook, and so we still do all those things. But I think that telephone system of just talking to somebody appeals to anybody from any age group, and I think that that's why we we carry on as a as a main part of our our existence. I suppose we we often debate it, but I still think it's it works and people use it. Yeah, and I think actually the telephone thing, there's a bunch of, um, more middle aged and older lesbians that don't own a computer or don't you know they're technophobes. And so they those are the ones, and they often have. They're either is isolated in their own communities. They might have an intellectual disability or a learning disability, at the very least, and so this is much more comfortable for them. And they're quite happy to talk to a gay man or a lesbian. They don't care as long as somebody is not going to put them down for who they are. And they've got 100 questions to ask, and they just want to talk to someone because they don't have friends. They're very isolated. I think that's that's That's one of the things we do. We get a category of caller who is a regular caller, and they might call, you know, three times a year, but they do that for five years, or they might call once a night and they might do that for years and then stop. So we actually form, I suppose, a social space for people because people are, you know, we're there. We are. We are happy to talk to people every night. We don't. We don't discriminate. We don't limit the length of calls. We you know, we we are there. So, um, there's people on the phones every night or there's a few nights a week that there's this call that the phones are person. Yeah, we we we we decided that, um, we're having more and more difficulty getting people to go. We we operate usually from an office, although we've now got facility of of answering calls from home. Um, but just getting the roster filled, we decided we would, um, we would the party nights, Thursday, Friday, Saturday night, we decided that was the most difficult nights to fill. And and and those are the nights we got at least calls where we did the analysis over the years. And so now, every night except Thursday, Friday, Saturday, we try and have somebody there and even those nights of people who are happy to come in or answer the phone from home. So what we do is encourage people to just leave messages on the answer machine, um, or send us an email so we will pick those calls up and yeah, it was it was just really, um, so that people, when they are calling and are looking at our website, we can we say to them, Look, you know, if you call Sunday, Monday, Tuesday Wednesday chances are there's gonna be somebody there, those other three nights less chance. But actually it doesn't matter. Just call and leave a message, because somebody will pick it up and get back to you. So if I ring up, who am I likely to get, like, what's the kind of range of your how many people do you have? Well, it's it's it's quite a lot of people come and go from Wellington so we've always In all the years I've been involved, we've always put a lot of emphasis on training new people and we try and train groups of maybe half a dozen people or more, and we might do that two or three times a year. And so we have a quite a lot of flux through the group of people coming and going, but usually we try and keep a core group of at least 10 or 15 people who actually are trained through, um, you know, monthly training programme, plus being on the phones with an experienced person as a trainee so that they learn actually by doing the the job. Um, and then we've got people who have left the group but still want to keep in touch with the group. Usually they're in Wellington, but they've got other stresses on their life or other things to do. Um, with their time and and so we we have an associates list, and then we've got, um, people who are currently trainees. So when you put the group together, it's I know it it It is why I said before, It's like 2030 40 50 60. Depends on what categories you put in the group, but it's it's a good It's a good size of group, I think, to get things done. And within that group, there's probably a core group of probably 66 to 10 people, usually who actually keep the whole thing together. Like most voluntary groups, we we we expect, um, people to do what they can, but we can't We can't expect people to do you know more than they can deal with easily. So, you know, I think that the group runs with with a a smaller group of very, um, committed people who've got the time and the energy to to put into it. So this is what we both do this all for, for free voluntarily and for love, I suppose. What do you get out of it? Um, I think that I think it's putting putting something back into a community where you have drawn from yourself in the past, and and I think most of us have had some sort of history of coming out and being very unsure and very uncertain about our sexuality. And so I think it's It's one of the the most common reasons I think people join the group and certainly in my case, it's, um it's been there all the years I've been doing it, but also I think it's it's a social group in its own right. So you get to meet other people in the queer community. We, um we have fun, we do stuff that we all enjoy. We we try and make the monthly meetings, you know, a bit of a social event as well as a training event as well as a bureaucratic event. Um, so yeah, and and it's also, I think, um, a group which in the wider community you get, you know, meet people. There's lots of people over the years that don't don't belong to the group, but I know from the group. So, yeah, I think it's a it's sort of. It's also got a longevity. A lot of groups come and go. And I think Wellington Gay Welfare Group has been around, you know, 2030 years as a group. And so it's got a sort of stability in, In, In In that, um, you know, it looks like it's going to be around for a while because we we've moved into new things. We try to keep up with where things are changing. So I'm pretty pretty convinced that we will be around in the next 10 or 20 years, maybe in a different format, different people. But, you know, still there. And what do you get out of it, Joe? Because you do quite a, um, social work and community work for paid work. Anyway, it's like a double WI. I mean, OK, yeah, I. I think I sort of wanted to do something when I first got here. Um, partly that was just to get into the to the network I. I wondered how Wellington got by on, you know, two bars and and blondies, um, coming from a larger city. So I thought, Oh, my God, you know, that's so sparse because not everybody wants to go to a bar to meet somebody. So then when I looked and, you know, got involved more in the lesbian community and there's pool nights and there's Ping Pong and and there's overland walkers and things like that and all kinds of things, I realised how actually really organised Wellington is. So I you know, I realised that I you know, I don't need to get there, but because of those emails and the people that have come to this group, which is such an eclectic group from all over the world, and all types of you know, um, stages of coming out, um, I kind of, you know, I. I see that there's definitely a need. Um, and people just like to, uh, yeah, it's just it's nice to support people in their early stages. You know, I think there's some great people, my hero. One of my heroes, of course, is Ellen DeGeneres. And I just think, you know, for if we can educate just by being which I do every day in my life in my work, I'm very out in my you know, I've There's been Children who are now 23 2016 or 17. I guess Sasha is now, um So every day of my life, I come out in some way or another. Um and I think that's sort of I don't know. I don't know, sort of what I do on this on this planet this time around, I think so. I'm more I'm I'm happy to give a little bit for now. And then I'd like somebody else, like George or somebody else to take it over because I am on the flame. Yeah, I've done it for a little while, and and I'm happy to support and go to out day and and do whatever it takes to support. But, uh, yeah, and I am I also have to make ends meet. So, I, I realise that I need to be doing a bit of my own private counselling and a couple of nights a week, probably just to, you know, because I work for a nonprofit organisation. So, um, I do need to make some priorities, too, in my life. So I'm happy to do it for now. And I know that I'm not here forever, but I'm always if somebody says, Oh, give Joe Morrison a call. I'm always happy to pick up the call and say, Yeah, I know it's hard and these are some things or people or this is a networking lesbian list that you can get on and they will be inclusive if you think that you you're transgender or whatever. Yeah, cool. So Wellington gay Welfare Group has many, many groups seems to be under it. And lots of people, I guess, really dedicated to, um being involved in that kind of thing. Hey, thanks, Heaps, Chris and Joe for having arm with us. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1970s ; 1990s ; 2010s ; Chris Pugsley ; Cuba ; Cuba Street ; Ellen DeGeneres ; Events ; German ; God ; Jo Morrison ; Job ; Joe ; LGBT ; Older Lesbians ; Older People ; People ; Space ; Stuff ; Vancouver ; Wai Ho ; Wellington ; Wellington Gay Switchboard ; Wellington Gay Welfare Group ; Youth ; acceptance ; advertising ; advice ; agenda ; bars ; bisexual ; change ; children ; church ; clubs ; coming out ; communication ; community ; conversation ; disability ; diversity ; education ; email ; emotional ; energy ; face ; family ; friends ; fun ; fundraising ; gaming ; gay ; government ; health ; helpline ; history ; homophobia ; homosexual ; identity ; integration ; intermediate school ; internet ; isolation ; labels ; lesbian ; loss ; love ; marriage ; meetings ; oppression ; organisation ; other ; parties ; priorities ; queer ; relationships ; running ; safe sex ; school ; sex ; sexual health ; sexuality ; so gay ; social ; social welfare ; social work ; spaces ; structure ; support ; teaching ; tease ; tertiary education ; time ; top ; touch ; tough ; training ; transgender ; trust ; university ; venues ; website ; women ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/wellington_gay_and_lesbian_helpline.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089159. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.