The title of this recording is "Takataapui workshop - Shift hui (2016)". It is described as: Elizabeth Kerekere discusses the history of takataapui, building relationships and creating inclusive spaces. It was recorded in Tapu te Ranga Marae, 46C Rhine Street, Island Bay, Wellington on the 23rd April 2016. Elizabeth Kerekere is presenting.  Their name is spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 47 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the proceedings. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Elizabeth Kerekere discusses the history of takataapui, building relationships and creating inclusive spaces. The content in the recording covers the decades 1870s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: The abstract summarizes a recording from an event called Shift hui, held at Tapu te Ranga Marae in Wellington on April 23, 2016. The recording features Elizabeth Kerekere delivering a workshop on takataapui, a term referring to a Māori person with a diverse sexual orientation or gender identity. The workshop delves into the history of takataapui, the evolution of identities and terminology, the creation of inclusive spaces, and building relationships within both Māori and wider communities. Elizabeth Kerekere, a longtime activist with a history in the black women's and Māori women's movements of the 1980s, shares a narrative of how language and recognition of sexual and gender identities have transformed over time - from the colonial introduction of hetero/homosexual dichotomy to the more recent acknowledgments of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender identities. The workshop underscores that although the English terminology is recent, the identities it refers to have been present in Māori culture and history for centuries. A poignant Māori love story involving the characters Tūtānekai and Hinemoa is recounted, highlighting the historical fluidity of gender roles and identities. Kerekere discusses the impact of colonization on the Māori understanding and expression of sexual and gender diversity, suggesting that the response of keeping matters private was a form of protection against discrimination. The workshop highlights the importance of reminding Māori communities of their pre-colonial past, where diversity in identity was an accepted and integrated part of the culture. Kerekere also identifies the need for creating inclusive spaces where Māori cultural values are at the forefront and where decision-making involves people of diverse identities. This includes examining power structures, resources, and representation to ensure inclusivity from the start. Kerekere emphasizes the role of language in promoting inclusion, recommending the use of inclusive Māori phrases and correct pronunciation as a sign of respect and welcome. The speaker further touches on the importance of ensuring diverse Māori identities, including takataapui, can engage in traditional roles, such as in kapa haka and karanga, in a manner that is both respectful and knowledgeable of Māori customs. Towards the end of the workshop, Kerekere invites volunteers to participate in a research project aimed at understanding the experiences of takataapui youth, their parents, and grandparents. The goal is to provide direct advice and support for fostering inclusive and supportive communities. The recording also makes a point of the reclaiming of the term takataapui by the Māori community to encompass the full spectrum of diverse sexualities and gender identities. The session concludes with a discussion on the importance of respecting Māori concepts and values, such as mana and whakapapa, and acknowledging the interconnectedness of individuals with their ancestors and the land. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Ah, Elizabeth. I am from Gisborne. So I live 20 years in Wellington. But being back home now, uh, this is my partner A who is a New Zealand. And we've been together 24 years and yeah, after 17 years with her. So it's time for us to move home. And I come into this space, Uh, as a young person, I was an activist from when I was about 14. 15 and our mates formed. We could see that some of the things that we needed to, uh, make our lives better. We formed a young black woman group, Maori Women's group, and that was part of the black women's and Maori women's movements of the eighties. And so I was at that time when feminism, uh, lesbianism. All of these things in the women's rights movement were all had been coming to our country. And so these things were bubbling along. And so when I come to talk about the then, uh, I come from a place that said when we started off in the language we got from the English, the British, when we were colonised in the late 18 hundreds, the word was homosexual and heterosexual were invented. And so there are still some of our elders that identified as homosexual because that was the languaging when they grew up. Uh, languaging of lesbian and gay only came in in the seventies around those kind of times. Uh, so then we start to identify transgender in the nineties, And so all of the words, when it talks about a sexual being under the radar so things that is a progression of language that that happens. Uh, what we know is that from the very first time those that language has come in and since as the feelings the identities have not changed. They have been here for centuries. These are ancient identities that we all have the names and language for them. English is very, very recent. Some of you will have heard this story. This was found in the writings of From He was the first, basically our first Maori scholar. The first book of that we had the first writings about gender and women, uh, were from him. And so in the story of and he tells of how and his best friend came around and then was quite intrigued. She was a and she was not allowed really to choose her own partner. She as as the eldest of her family, the daughter of the chief. Those things were political political arrangements, and so through her role and through her power, then that she could create peace amongst neighbouring tribes but still like this guy, and so he was a musician. I don't know if any of you are musicians in the room. We have a lot of a lot of proverbs that say, Watch those musicians they will take They would grab your because they were always a trip in those particular they will take your woman away And he was He played the flute and so they were not. Hine's father saw instantly that there was an attraction going on there, and so I don't know if any of you know at all, but in near the airport and beside that is there's a rock where she used to sit and think, and so they had. And in in the middle of the lake, it's the island and to and have gone into that spice there. And A's father removed all the waka from the shore so that she could not get over to the island. But the connection that was between them was too strong. And so she would sit on the rock thinking And as the night fell, she could hear the flute playing across the water. And certainly the stories that say this was all prearranged, that they set that up. But she still had to cross the border. So she swam out at night, and she used the sound of the flute to guide her back to the island. But when she got there And this is the greatest Maori love story we have, the streets are named after them. It is the great thing. So what they don't talk about in that exact same story is that when she got there, she disguised herself as a man to get the attention. And so, through her subterfuge, she finally, uh, was able to get close to to and in Maori culture, we don't even have a word for wedding. We don't have a word, actually. For husband, wife, mother, daughter or, uh, father, son. And so the way that you announced you coupled him in that sense was that you got found and be together and so there's a lot of stories about counting the feet in the bed. It's a way of signifying your new relationship. I know in our culture nowadays, your parents finding you in bed with you and a partner. Not such a great story. It's not where you want them to go proudly out to announce to the entire village that you're now a couple. That's how they did that in that sense. And so their father. It was done. But where we get the word as the story goes on to say that after they were living together, went to his father-in-law and said, I am dying. I am dying. Love of my my And the story, then, is that he arranged for and allowed Tiki to come and live with them. And so we know from the very first Maori Dictionary, 18 32 translated as intimate companion of the same sex. What we also know from diaries of sailors, explorers whaler is that our sexuality was much, much more fluid then the colonists were were happy with, and so they clamped down on that quite severely. But for many, many years, for decades later, our people continue to live and operate with a much a fluid identity. Well, you see, this is the thing back then was not an identity as such. It was more from what I can tell from the Maori more an endearment, a descriptor that someone who was of the same gender as them. But we know that people were able to be sexual or be attracted to other people of different genders. And that was an accepted part of our culture. Of course, colonisation destroyed many things our land, our language, our economic base. But it also took that away from us. And so I always say that the historical trauma for and then how things happen in this country started at that point, Uh, many areas, I think where I come from around Gisborne and and I think other areas. We we were more isolated. Those relationships continued to happen. Uh, but we kept it undercover. And so in my work, I talk about, uh sometimes people perceive something as discrimination by family. Don't want to talk about it. Don't want to hear it. I believe that was actually protection. When you're in the body of your family, then they could They could look after you. And they knew that all this that was happening out here, the homophobia biphobia transphobia that was happening. Uh, that will hurt the kids. And even today, I think our parents that Oh, you're gonna get hurt. Oh, I worry for you. And instead of helping build us up to be stronger, a lot of them you just try and stop us doing that thing. And so part of I guess the group that we are is we look to ways that we can work with our to remind them of how our people used to be, because there's so many areas of our culture and our lives where that length that knowledge has been taken away from us. And it's up to us then to bring that knowledge back. So partly it's I'm your daughter. I'm your child. You should just accept me anyway, regardless, and part of it is a reminder. This is who who we used to be. We've always been there. That's why I say all the identities, all of the feelings, all of the attractions have always been through our people. So I I was really enjoyed. Thank you to all the panellists that spoke this morning. I really enjoy listening to people talk about how we how we live, who we are, how we express who we are and how we make, uh, our lives around what's important to us. So when I moved to Wellington, I was early twenties and I could see that there was a lot of racism in the Rainbow Communities. Uh, that there was a very specific ways you're allowed to be lesbian or gay. So some of our elders talked about you could have to be, but off them, So there was that thing that the the people went through for a long time. I look now at those old days, and I see a lot of what we call the stone. Butchers actually live their lives as men. Well, before, um, surgery or hormones were available, and but we didn't have any language for that when by the time I got there and I was active and started off with lesbian and and got got more involved in things, and so I thought as a Maori, I had nowhere to kind of go to there weren't many of us, and I missed that connection. So I set up so we could bring all the parts of ourselves together. Because so often we go home and we have this thing here. We're very contained. We don't talk about this. Don't bring your partner. Um oh, you don't have to say you were doing that much over there. Oh, don't talk about your politics in front of the upset. Your grandmother, What are they? Sometimes I'm not saying it happens here, but some of you will be familiar or it's not part of our culture. It's not part of our religion doesn't like this. And then in other spaces here and the rainbow kind of field, it's culture doesn't matter. It's all about this identity, and so was a way to bring those things together. So we set it up that it was always open to all the parts of our community because we recognise we have non partners. We have, uh, the friends that we we'd like to hang out with and do things with. So we started off with a place of being able to speak Maori. If you spoke Maori, uh, starting to learn and and we started just started working with other organisations to say Do you need help with this? Uh have you thought about that? Because wasn't used pretty much in most of the community. So because our group was as inclusive that we had many people from other organisations. We started through that relationship that initial contact Then we started building a relationship with the organisation. So when they're organising in the next week say OK then you know, perhaps you should think about how you're gonna open that. What is the what are the values that you're gonna do? Uh and so we did that organisation by organisation until now 15 years later. Uh, pretty much nothing happens in the Wellington area without us involved in some way and it's again it's not. It's moving past that token thing when you're talking about inclusive spaces. It's not that you start a each time with Kilda because a that's still awesome but by itself that is not going to bring people in. And so what we've tried to do is then work with organisations to say right, let's steal it right right back to who organises the space who has the power of decision making and are there any Maori people involved in that. Are there any other people of different cultures involved in that? Because if that doesn't happen way back here, it's not gonna happen. Uh, how are these things? What resources do you use? Whose knowledge do you access? Because the fact is, there's not many Maori, depending on where you are in the country. Our percentages are are changed dramatically. So, Wellington, one of the lowest percentage of Maori, where I come from the highest, we're nearly about 50%. So again, your access to resource is different. And that's part of why I made the resource to kind of give a really a really broad definition of what is, uh but then to help kind of start that conversation so we could start building relationships When I'm just thinking, when you had your conversations just now and you broke into workshops, were there people there that talked about inclusive spaces? Did any of that cover some some of those cultural things. I think what kind of things were coming out for you in those workshops? Put you on the spot. So, uh, I noticed that, um, a lot of the discussion in terms of culture. Um, and religion was, uh there was some things that came up between when did one accept the other? That was a big one where, you know, for example, as, um as someone like the term that someone chooses on a which literally translates into, uh, like a woman. But when religion was introduced like, it became a weird grey area that people didn't really want to talk about. And so, um, even to this day, that's still it's still hard for people to talk about, even amongst our group. But yeah, for me, Thank you. I'm just wondering in some of the other groups if or even just generally in the groups that you have some of the issues that you come up with or things you've struggled with or things that are awesome about being inclusive, having Maori in your groups, that so how many people here kind of run groups and even had the discussion? Um, I did. We just talked about five square stuff, though. There was one group that was talking about racism coming from that know. And yeah, that's interesting. What What we try and do is create a space where people can feel welcome that anybody can be any identity and where there's issues that they can come to the group for support in that particular way. So, for example, the intersex round table that was held this week, um, that money came to us and say, as an organisation, how can we support, um, with that? And that's what we do for the people in our group. They will just tell us if there's something coming up that they need support or knowledge around. So we powder the When I was when I came out and decided to claim the lesbian word the I told all my family, I was that kind of kid. I was brought up to be very strong, very confident. I was the eldest of my family. My father was the eldest. I was brought up to be in charge of stuff, and and so as soon as I did, I told everyone except my father because my father was a crazy, violent megalomaniac, and I thought he was totally gonna kill me. Uh, but I went up to Gisborne. I hitchhiked from Dunedin to Gisborne to talk to my great grandmother, who was born in 19 01. And I said to her I was lesbian. Of course. Never heard of the word. Oh, I've got a girlfriend's like And so I said, OK, we have sex and she's like, Ah, and she told me about her aunties who lived as female couples when she was young. They had to have been born in the late 18 seventies, the 18 eighties, of course. And she said, But you know, the big accept. Yeah, we accept all of that, however, that you must have Children. This is one of the number one pressures that we get. Um, when you take out all these things that are kind of the same because we're Maori, that we share with other Maori, you take out all these things we share because of our sexuality and gender. There's a crux. There's a few things that are absolutely specifically that's number one. Where's your kids? And because it's all about Papa and I talk about and I say sometimes it is literal. Just because we are doesn't mean we're not gonna have Children, but actually we inherit another which is our and so that we come from a tradition of people of gender and, um, sexual fluidity. And we need to claim that. So by claiming we say Yeah, I accept, regardless of whether I speak Maori or not, regardless of whether I go home to my or even feel comfortable or even like those people my Maori before onto the bar and so and the other thing. Then we talk about Mana. We inherit a man when we're born, and it's the mana of our tribe and who we are. We also accrue man through our lifetime by our achievements and our deeds. And I believe it is that that gives us the stand to say, Actually, not only are we going to deal with the discrimination that happens in our world, uh, we have the right to deal with the discrimination that happens in our and inside of our culture. Uh, because is this a All I want to do is remind them of how we used to be, and therefore they don't know it. But now that they do, they need to change all of that. A of that. Let's see, What else did I write? The so Yeah. So when I come back to my story, my great grandmother. And I said, What was the name? What did you call your aunties? And she said, There is no name. They were just part of the So this is about part of the that we don't need names. Um, Moana Jackson. The most amazing leaders. He always tells the story. When he asked his mother, uh what what do we used to call people like us? And she and she says, Of course we had a name. It was grandchild. I like actually, all of the naming all of those things. None of that doesn't in the end doesn't matter your except because you're part of this. You're part of their tribe, part of their family, part of their household. And that's why we try and remind us remind our this was produced through a suicide prevention. We know that one of the number one protective factors they call is support of, and this is about reminding. To remember. The core job of our family is to look after us. That is all there is. They will learn over time, the terms we like to use for ourselves. They will learn to meet and know the people we are attracted to and love and all share our bodies with, uh they will learn to connect with the communities we connect with, but at the absolute guts of it is part of the And although this was written with in mind, I believe all those things apply to well, I would hope to everybody and I went into this is not an apologetic or first criteria. Number one would be beautiful. That was important to me. This is my artwork. Uh oh, my God. I just said it. It's beautiful because it's my art work. Sorry. Sorry about that. OK, just a shout out to all the artists in the room just like move on from that little comment the But this is kind of a resource with some attitude. So actually, there's some really, really bad things that happen for particularly for our young people, because more and more organisations, more and more groups that happen even though us of our generation before, uh, we knew when we were young. Most of us know our gender by the time we're three or four and most of us know our sexuality while we're teenagers, but my generation and before didn't come out till later. So with you being part of the generation coming out when you're young and taking all the crap that you're taking right now and so this was part of that to say, Actually, this is the unusual times. This is New times. This is how this is. And I just need to be reminded of what their job is. And so finally, I'm talking to a thing. When I think about inclusivity, I think come back to those basic values that when we set things up that the people that we want included in the spaces we eventually create need to be involved at the beginning of the organising. Quite often, we can't find all those people. Uh, not they might not want to be on a group for whatever reason. Amazing as you might all be. They got other things on. People are busy, people are in demand is then you're looking at who are the organisations and other individuals you build that relationship with so that then you build that trust that you can ring, You can ring me and say, What about this? And that's because I've known now for nearly 10 years. And so you build it up over time. And so if you're working alongside, say, as whatever kind of group that you're in that you work with, say, a mainstream, for example, Maori Youth group, then you build that relationship. So there might be key activities, you say, right? Maybe twice a year. We do some joint joint projects, joint activities and you just over time develop a relationship so that they get to trust you as an organisation. Because all these who are over here, they might be, uh, keen on on on something, but they just this is just too far in a space. Uh, so and they're over here with their or around the Maori organisations all their sports. Uh, over time, then they can say, actually, these are cool people. These are cool things that they're doing. And people will start to, um have that fluidity. I always recommend using as a word to refer to all Maori. This being gay, bisexual sexual trends, intersex asexuals, a romantic, all the different identities that we have and many more that we will create. Uh but I think if you're you start from that base number one have us on the organising. It's not in your group. We, through an organisation, develop relationships all about relationships and talk some more about that tomorrow. Uh, and for me, keep things in here. It's about respecting the of the person that who we are, our gender, our sexuality, I believe, uh, all the knowledge or the amazingness we bring in the world. Part of that is because we're conduits that we have created a past to our ancestors, whatever nation those ancestors have come from. And so when we trample, we discriminate against, we discriminate on the manner we trample on the man we trample on their way to a when we hassle anybody. So whether that's us amongst ourselves, whether that's how whatever happens to us in the world and that is the number one sin sin Christian reference there, uh, but or breaking, breaking of. So if our is number one job to look after us, then the key thing is to protect the of the person. And so I hope with this with the work that we do, uh, then that we enhance the of you all. So I acknowledge all of your ancestors the fact I know that you come here as individuals, but actually, you represent your you represent your groups and you represent your ancestors, and I'm here to all of them. So, uh, it's a com convolute. But, uh uh, It's been lovely to talk to you today. I'm gonna open up for any other questions, like OK, why do you think about it? I'm going to bring up. And it'd be great if people can think of things. Maybe that make it really hard. One of the things that, uh, someone said to me just before is one of the issues that people think is that Yeah, you can't be. It means certain identities or a certain level of knowledge of being Maori. So I just want to reiterate, uh, that that is not true. When we reclaimed, Smith first found that term and the writings of and they gave it to the community from day one. That term was given over for, um, police being gay, bisexual and transgender people. That was all the languaging we had at the time. So the fact that since then, some parts of our communities have claimed it, uh, for just gay men, because they say to me, Therefore, it means gay in it. Absolutely. Just on a basic, you know, not that I even know much about that, but on that basis it's just absolutely not true. But when it's gifted to our communities to use, it was always and we know our have always and leadership in our, um in our communities. So I just wanted to reinforce that anything else, people in their groups. I I was wondering if you had any more tips or ideas on how to make our group more, um, friendly in a way. And what would make them want to come and be involved? I think so. Some practical things around, uh, a will you advertise? Do you actually get your and your notices out to places where other Maori are? So do you Do you have a relationship or you have contact with all the local Maori youth groups? Uh, do you to the, um uh, people who work with with Maori, uh, so that they they can all help, uh, direct people to you. So there's that the other thing. So, for example, a lot of our, uh who might identify as as lesbian and bisexual women, uh, play sport. That's the thing. You'll find them on the softball field. So So then it's, uh, do you have a relationship with any of actual, predominantly Maori sports groups? So it's that thing of actually getting thinking a bit more laterally, firstly, about how you let people know what you're doing, because then it's like, OK, maybe if you had a relationship with a sports group, then you could organise sports events. So some of it's real fun, and some of it's real competitive. That in itself would, uh, So when we were running Amazon software, for example, for a long time, uh, it was predominantly, then we and it was a social team. We made a competitive team. Hello, all. The Maori turned up all the Maori and the Pacific Islanders because that weren't going to play unless it was competitive in our heart. And so those kinds of real practical things doing things they might be interested in, and then the things you already do that they probably would be if they knew about it. Uh, the there's some real things around pronunciation, uh, so being able to say people's names correctly and place names opening with. I always suggest people open with I think it's not necessarily a prayer. I'm not talking about a prayer. I'm talking about something that brings everybody into the space and clears it and opens it for your discussions or what are you going to do? So those kind of so when a Maori person does come along and someone who's then they think, Oh, so it's not something you do There's a Maori in the room, so it's just a normal part of how you operate because people feel that they feel, Oh, this is a normal thing. You do, uh, like using inclusive language when you even if you've never had someone intersex in your group. If you always say intersex by the time when when someone does come, they go, Oh, I am included here. I'm specifically, um, I specifically named This is for me. Yeah, I think I look at the and of course it's It's those Maori who do get involved. Where did they come from? Who are their networks? Um, and networks. Then who do people know? And that's what we I said. We're a tiny group with no funding. Uh, but we create relationships, and so we need this person here and they got all their mates, and then they'll send people to us. So I really want to invite anybody who's in Wellington to come and at least come and check out. Come and come and be good if you can sing, but it is not compulsory. Uh, it's also good if you got a little bit of rhythm, but also we work with that. Uh hm. Yeah, I think it's a mixture of those things because there's a number of groups that I don't join that it's just like, cool. I like what you do, for example, anything to do with fitness and walking. It's not my thing, but, uh, if they need to talk about something, then I'm happy to talk. Yeah, and I think that that applies to lots of people. If you're doing their thing, they'll come in for that thing. Yeah, thank you to say I really love the, uh, Maori way of doing things because, well, I guess I guess like, people don't change, But societies change. And when we look at the Maori Society, um, 18 hundreds before Cayman Mass, Um, I think that's that. Society is much more natural in a way of how people are. And so I like to think that, um should be embracing this as well to recognise that our identities are really, really th th case in all the history and that we all have where we come from. So I want to know how I can use it properly and responsibly is someone who is talking to, I suppose, for some for people in Wellington. Then I guess there is something we tried is that we modelled that so joining and and then kind of learning some of those and I think again, connecting in with whether it's going to ST to Maori classes work on getting some basic good pronunciation, uh, but starting to understand some of those values. So even here at the the fact that introduces them and uses words like that, you know that that's topics of discussion. Uh, and so when we talk about values that we're using, uh, Maori concepts, so starting to learn those things either and local groups things that you can read, there's lots of things on the Internet to give you that real basic. Um introduction, I think because I will always advocate if you're gonna talk about connectedness and and people relating, then you might as well use it for knowing that is a term and a concept rooted here. Uh, if you're going to talk about history and because, uh is about genealogy going back in time and into the future. But it also means a wider collective relationship sideways, because when you're talking, you're not. You're talking connectedness, but that and we have certain obligations to each other and therefore accountabilities. And so I think if those terms actually dive with what you're talking about, then I'd say Use the terms, become familiar with those so that you gradually build on those things because not is one group in the whole country. So it's that's not always an option. But I think starting to learn those basic concepts and feeling it's what you do anyway. It's how you think anyone use, use those terms for it, and it starts connecting them with this of this land of this of this area. And, you know, I see a future where everyone in this country speaks Maori. The early settlers that came to this country all learned Maori. But once the colon colonisation process started, they're like, Oh, no, we don't do that. So they stopped and then it was like we all had to speak English. Uh, so it's a different way of thinking of connecting in. OK, two questions. Um, if you like music, what's your favourite song? And the second one is, um, you were talking about roles and and in terms of how, um How there's been can you play a role in in a sitting or a pre pre pre colonisation or what was the role? First? Firstly, music. Who doesn't like me? I have got, um I have to say is is a music freak. So she knows a lot about music and organises it. So I have what I call my favourites and I have my all time favourite. Um, if I had to pick one, would it be Sunday? We'll all be together, Uh, at our, um at our civil union, we did an acknowledgement of all of those people of diverse sexes, genders and sexualities who could not live the life they wanted to live. And so a tutor at the time, that fair. So Sunday will be together. Fine. Yeah. So I'm not gonna make you sing it right now, but it's a very old song. It's it's, uh, Diana Ross and the Supremes. Humour? Yeah. And so, Yeah, I think that would be if I had to put something more recent. Then it would have to be Don't you pussy cat girls. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me if your friend was a freak, like, please, just don't you? That's a confidence thing. I got going on the second thing really important. Uh, there's the thing I've noticed. And as I've gotten older that I see that when you grow up and you're connected with your and that regardless of your other identities, they understand you and they know you because you're theirs. When you live, as most Maori do, 90% of us live outside of our tribal areas. You come back and they're like, What's what. This lesbian thing? Yeah, and they don't get it. It's a it becomes a concept. And so there's something in there about, and I think it's connected to that protection. That's like while you're here and we get who you are. But when you're out there and you come back with this craziness, we don't get it and we don't really want to engage with it. And so when it comes to roles, because certainly when was formed, we talked a lot about and Maori culture highly gendered women do this. The men do this, you stand in these roles and you do this. So several of us come from kaha backgrounds. And we decided that if a was written in a particular way, if a haka was written to be performed by men or women, that the people who identified uh in that, uh, in that way performed those, however, it was then incumbent on us because we're not about to say, Oh, we must change all of Maori culture to do that. We say, actually, then step up. So we had to write our own. We wrote our own, we wrote our own songs. Then when we perform all those, then we can shake up the rows. We can do whatever we like all of the, um well, all of our group. Uh, but when we do poi, for example, all of our men, our identified members all do poi And so then we break down those things talking about, uh, because we've had to deal with situations, say, uh, our a fem gay men wanted to do We were like, No, you can't uh, however our trans women no problem at all, because the the thing about and I take that really, really seriously, it's about our connection to the land and to the gods, Um, because of our, um, female essence. And so if you live your life and acknowledge that female essence, then you have the right to do that role. And so and that's fine in our communities. This is a safe space where we can learn and we can teach those things. Uh, when you go home and I have totally seen this and been had people asking me about this having a trans woman bowling up who hasn't grown up at home, doesn't know many people and say they want to do the massive fights like you did what? Um, that is not good. That is not a solid. That is not a supportive or even good way to operate that you have to if you want to take particular roles. I have been home now for six years. I'm 50. I still am totally the backup girl everywhere and the rest of my life. I do at nearly every who I go to. But as long as I've got older cousins, as long as I've got aunties that do that, I'm at the battle. And so there's that thing as well. You need to be home. You need to be asked to do certain things, and you need to have done some of that practise and learning yourself. So when you do get asked, then you can step into that role. I don't know if some of you know he is, uh, also on our board board of Who's a Trans man and his partner, Karen, his wife, Uh, and they run, which is the trans trans organisation. They have a newsletter that goes out around the world. I think about 6 7000, um, subscribers. And it's all things that are happening throughout all of our communities. But the focus on trans people and and of course inside that includes our non-binary and gender diverse people. So he went back to his and they and had that negotiation over time because he grew up there and from and and and and so that conversation started, they saw that he was transitioning. And then by the time uh, they over time, then they got to see and understand they could feel a way to and then got to the point where they said if he was ready to speak that he could sit on the pipe and that took time. It didn't start off well, and it's hm, it's a real decision. If we if we're going to step up to those roles or want to be available for those roles, we need to know what we're doing. Uh, because we really we're representing. And I say we have this throughout the country that have had for decades because they know the essence. They recognise that of them. And then there can be no question whatever terms they call themselves or whatever other people might have to say about it, the and then respect that. We're very, very clear that that is not how it operates everywhere their crap goes on. And so part of doing this research and working, um, with is just to start working on that, dealing with things and not going well where our kids are getting hurt, where they're getting kicked out of home and have no connection with the Because their cannot cope with their diversity, it is not acceptable. And I guess all of our work is about addressing that, reminding our what the basic job is and who we are. Where we come from. The Children is there. Anybody here would like to comment about how it is for them, or I know some people hear the term and that is me. And others go. Oh, not sure. Is there anyone that would like to comment on that? Good bye. Otherwise we should break up. Last thing. OK, this this resource was the first one I am doing a PhD. I finish in June on the emergence of identity finishes in June. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was asked to do it and I said, Yeah, sure, I had no idea. It's a lot of writing. It's a lot of reading to produce 100,000 words. Well, yeah, but there's no research next to nothing on. So we did. We did that. And as lovingly as I may craft those 100,000 words I know you are not all gonna read it. So that was the first one we're doing One now, youth, where we're interviewing youth, their parents and their grandparents. We are looking for volunteers. We will come to you. We will go to where your live, wherever that is in the country. So we, um So, Morgan, if we interviewed her. And so we interviewed Morgan and their mom the first day. And then we interviewed Morgan's auntie cousin, who is the eldest and also and the nan all together. It was incredible. We are looking for more volunteers to do that because we want to put something together that gives absolute direct advice so parents can speak to parents, can speak to each other and just say, how do we create a support of? So I am looking for volunteers. Please come and see me. So no, no. Finish here. Yeah. No. Sorry. Is that, um, only to do a Maori descendant for this particular one. Yeah. What late? I encourage you to do one into your culture. Thank you for having me. Not later. Just wanna thank you so much for sharing, um, sharing that. I think it's so so important that we continue to tell these stories and history and acknowledge the land that we're in and where we have come from, Um, and to spread, I guess. Yeah, spreading that story of and what that means And that that is a term that, um, many people at this at that will meet in our groups and stuff that they can claim and that, you know, that belongs to you. And that's your your history. Um, and as as well, I think just talking about how we can make our groups and spaces all more inclusive of it's just so, so, so important. And I really, really appreciate you, um, yeah, for me to share that with us today. Thank you. And I realised I didn't do my way. So I'm gonna do one quick one, which I'm gonna help you get you to sing with me. So, I, I like to do this overseas. But even though you don't speak Maori so there are sections where it repeats And, uh so I get you see, I will go like this. Then I'll get there little section and see how we do it, OK? It is my favourite. Anyone who knows us joining we here What is of the nation and cross the wide wide creation We won't kneel down We won't kneel down up on the ground Oh, how I love to hear them say My God, no! Uh and. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. 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The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1870s ; 1880s ; 1980s ; 2010s ; Adele ; Alofa Aiono ; Amazons Softball Club (Wellington) ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Black Women's movement ; Canada ; Coming Up ; Creek ; Diana Ross ; Elizabeth Kerekere ; Events ; Gisborne ; God ; Job ; Lee Smith ; Lego ; Mokoia Island ; Māori ; Ngahuia Te Awekotuku ; Ngāti Oneone ; Pacific ; Panama ; People ; Peri Te Wao ; Rainbow Youth ; Rongowhakaata ; Samoa ; Shift hui ; Shift hui (2015) ; Shift hui (2016) ; Skype ; Space ; Stuff ; Tabby Besley ; Tairawhiti ; Takatāpui: part of the whanau (booklet) ; Tapatoru ; Tapu te Ranga Marae ; Te Aitanga a Mahaki ; Te Reo Māori ; Turkey ; Tīwhanawhana ; Tūtānekai and Hinemoa ; Waikato ; Wellington ; Whanau a Kai ; Wiremu Maihi Te Rangikaheke ; Youth ; access ; activism ; activities ; addiction ; advertising ; agenda ; ancestors ; animals ; aromantic ; asexual ; attitude ; binary ; bisexual ; board ; building ; butch ; change ; chef ; children ; civil unions ; collective ; colonialism ; colonisation ; coming out ; community ; confidence ; connect ; conversation ; culture ; data ; discrimination ; diversity ; elders ; face ; family ; feelings ; feminism ; femme ; fire ; fitness ; fluidity ; football ; friends ; fun ; funding ; future ; gaming ; gay ; gender ; gender diverse ; gender expression ; gender identity ; gods ; grandparents ; heterosexual ; history ; hit ; hockey ; homophobia ; homosexual ; hope ; hui ; identity ; inclusion ; inclusive language ; inclusive space ; insistence ; internet ; intersex ; interviewing ; kapa haka ; karakia ; karanga ; kaumatua ; kaupapa ; kicked out ; knowledge ; language ; law ; leadership ; lesbian ; listening ; love ; mainstream ; mana ; marae ; media ; music ; naming ; newsletter ; normal ; other ; pansexual ; parents ; peace ; photography ; planes ; podcast ; politics ; power ; prayer ; prevention ; race ; racism ; rainbow ; reading ; relationships ; religion ; research ; resource ; respect ; romantic ; running ; safe space ; sexual identity ; sexuality ; sin ; soccer ; social ; softball ; spaces ; sport ; stone butch ; study ; suicide ; suicide prevention ; suit ; support ; surgery ; survey ; takatāpui ; tangata ira tane ; teacher ; tikanga ; time ; tokenism ; top ; tough ; tradition ; trans ; trans woman ; transgender ; transphobia ; trauma ; trust ; tupuna takatāpui ; values ; volunteer ; waiata ; wairua ; walking ; water ; whakapapa ; whakawahine ; whakawhanaungatanga ; whānau ; women ; women's liberation movement ; women's rights ; work ; workshop ; writing ; youth ; youth group. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/shift_hui_2016_takataapui_workshop.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089741. Elizabeth Kerekere also features audibly in the following recordings: "Alison Laurie - KAHA Youth Hui 2009", "Elizabeth Kerekere - AsiaPacific Outgames", "Elizabeth Kerekere - Decolonise Your Minds hui", "Parliament: first reading of the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill", "Rainbow Pride Community Honours (2015) - Part 3", "Elizabeth Kerekere - Rainbow Politicians", "Elizabeth Kerekere - homosexual law reform", "Part 1 - Opening ceremony at Parliament - Wellington Pride Festival 2016", "Opening of Out in the Park (2016)", "Speaking Out Proud - Proud 2016", "LGBTI* health plenary - Proud 2016", "Solidarity with Orlando Candlelight Vigil - Wellington", "Closing plenary - Proud 2016", "Participants (part 2) - Shift hui (2016)", "Leaving a Legacy", "IDAHOBIT 2017", "Service for Virginia Burns", "Insight: Gay Rights Beyond Marriage", "Launch of the ILGA World Conference 2019", "Whakarongo: Pride, ILGA World and beyond", "Our Stonewall", "Wellington International Pride Parade 2020", "Elizabeth Kerekere - Rainbow Voices of Aotearoa New Zealand", "Rainbow Voices of Aotearoa New Zealand documentary", "Tiwhanawhana 20 Years On - interviews", "Hikoi to Out in the City (2021)", "35th anniversary panel discussion on homosexual law reform", "Parliament: second reading of the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill", "InsideOUT Kōaro -10th birthday", "IDAHOBIT 2022", "Out of the Ashes", "Resist Transphobia rally", "Elizabeth Kerekere farewell from Parliament" and "Kawe Mahara Queer Archives Aotearoa - Rainbow Studies Now". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.