The title of this recording is "Beyond Rainbows panel discussion - Shift hui (2016)". It is described as: Beyond Rainbow panel members talk about the challenges of being a minority within rainbow communities. It was recorded in Tapu te Ranga Marae, 46C Rhine Street, Island Bay, Wellington on the 23rd April 2016. This is a recording of an event and features the voices of Aya McCabre, Dani Pickering, Jaye Barclay, Remy Schwenke, Tabby Besley and Taupuruariki Brightwell. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 57 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the event. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast panel members talk about the challenges of being a minority within rainbow communities. The discussion was facilitated by Tabby Besley and features Jaye Barclay, Aya McCabre, Dani Pickering, Taupuruariki Brightwell and Remy Schwenke. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This summary captures the essence of a 57-minute recording from the Beyond Rainbows panel discussion held on 23rd April 2016 at Tapu te Ranga Marae in Wellington. The event revolved around the multifaceted challenges faced by individuals who are minorities within the rainbow community. Panel members included Aya McCabre, Dani Pickering, Jaye Barclay, Remy Schwenke, Tabby Besley, and Taupuruariki Brightwell. The discourse facilitated by Tabby Besley explored myriad identities, including ethnicity, gender diversity, and the intersectionality with other aspects such as disability, mental health, and engagement with sports like roller derby. The panelists candidly introduced themselves, sharing personal anecdotes about their backgrounds, interests, and the nuances of their identities. They discussed how the term "rainbow community" may not resonate with everyone, acknowledging the importance of personal views and terminologies. Experiences of feeling like a minority within the rainbow community were voiced; challenges of representation, discrimination, and access to spaces were examined along with personal stories related to navigating spaces as transgender, non-binary, and people of mixed ethnicity. Drawing from their lived experiences, the panelists identified that representation and education about the transgender community are pivotal. They underlined the stereotype-busting potential of positive role models and the need to dismantle deep-seated prejudicial beliefs that isolate and marginalize. The conversation highlighted the significance of being an ally to those within the community – by standing up against ignorance and promoting understanding. The inclusive nature of roller derby, a sport noted for its proactive protection of queer and trans participants, illustrated a progressive model of communal harmony. Moreover, creative expression through arts and volunteering for advocacy-based organizations were mentioned as avenues for empowerment. Discussing the intersection of gender and sexuality, some panelists expressed the unique position of being visibly transgender and the complexities it brings in communal and familial settings. Issues centered around physical accessibility in LGBTQ+ venues for disabled individuals and the recognition and acceptance of asexual and aromantic orientations were also raised. The session then shifted to brainstorming ideas to cultivate greater inclusivity in rainbow communities. Strategies discussed included proactive affirmation of diverse identities, accessible event planning, and outspoken inclusive messaging. In closing, attendees reflected on experiences of belonging, pointing to affirming spaces and supportive interactions that had a profound impact on them. Despite challenges, these positive examples of inclusive environments provided optimism for the ongoing journey towards equitable representation within rainbow communities and beyond. This summary serves as a thoughtful synopsis of the conversations and insights shared during the Beyond Rainbows panel, emphasizing the diversity of experiences within the broader LGBTQ+ narrative and the proactive steps necessary to foster inclusivity for all its members. The full transcription of the recording begins:  So this is beyond Rainbow. So it's a panel discussion on what it's like to be a minority within the rainbow community. Um, um, just to note that we're using the term rainbow community, but we recognise that not everyone on the panel, um, or in the audience will necessarily identify with that term or being part of, um, one community. That's totally fine. Um, you're welcome to share any thoughts you have on that later. Um, we just we don't like using acronyms and stuff. We're just trying to give it a simple thing. Um, cool. Um, so to start with, we'll just go through. And if you could all just introduce yourself a little bit, um, about you where you're from, what you like to do with your time interest. Anything you want to say about your yourself? Um, yeah. Hi. Um, everyone, um, my name is, um, a, um Call me a for shot. Um, I am from, uh and are my, um I'm also of, um, Tahitian descent. Because my mother's from Tahiti, Um, and brought up in Gisborne. Yeah, I I came here to, um, study in, um, art and design, which I have now received my bachelors, and, um, I'm really working on getting that. Didn't go to the steering running. I don't want into that stuff and just get a sense to me, you know, here it is, right here, right now. Um oh, yes. Um, this is one of my, um, latest works, so I, um, help illustrate, um, this, uh, this latest resource for, um, gender diversity in schools. So this is a new inside out resource on how to make schools safer for trains and gender diverse use. Um, we've printed his copies and have boxes in there. If anyone wants to take some home, um, they're also good for use spaces. And we're very, very lucky to have a, um kindly do all the beautiful, beautiful design and the photo. Um, the pictures are all based on people from our community. Um, so we're really lucky to have them generously Let let themselves be drawn. So, um, what was that again? Sorry. Sorry. Um yeah. So I. I work part time and as a freelance artist. So, um, one of the things I worked on was the resource book tabby just introduced. Um, I also do roller derby. So I compete for the Wellington League. R the city. Um, so, yeah, that is pretty fun. It can get quite very. Never get used to it, though. It's like going on the battlefield. You never know what's gonna happen on the track getting getting smashed. I'm a bit of a Yeah, a bit. A bit of a woman That's quite rough around the edges. Yeah, it's always I've always been like that. Um, but yeah. No, um, that's kind of pretty much what I do in a nutshell. So, yeah. And I've, um ever since I've come here to study, I've just been living here ever since and just living because I think, Yeah, I really love Wellington. And I'll probably stay here a lot longer. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Ok, uh, my name is, uh, Jay Barclay, and I'm from Napa. It's really small. No-one knows where it is. Um, and I am of Maori descent, obviously. And, um, Japanese and Ukrainian descent, and I was born in Tokyo. Um, I am a first year university student at Victoria, um, grown up in Wellington my entire life. Pretty much. And I'm doing a conjoint degree. Um, majoring in Marine bio, English lit and ecology and Biver. And I'm mining in Maori studies as well. Um, in my spare time, I like to sleep and draw, and yeah, that's kind of just me at the moment. All I do is study and, um, volunteer with inside out and kind of do bits and pieces whenever I've got spare time, which is hardly ever so Yeah, nice to meet all you guys. Yeah, job everyone. Uh, my name is Danny. I pronouncer David. Um, I'm a Wellington by way of Seattle by way of Auckland. Um, I'm an OE child because my dad went overseas, met my mom in America. She's the American. Half blah, blah, blah. Um, now that I'm here, though, uh, I'm really, uh, involved with, uh up at up at the Victoria University. Um, where I'm studying where I'm wrapping up my undergraduate and media studies finally. And, um, recently, I've been, uh, working my butt off to get, uh, the Wellington chapter of no private prisons off the ground. Um, side notes massive Star Wars nerd and I play magic. The gathering? Yeah, right. Hi. I'm a am. I pronounce it. Um, pretty much. I'm just full time disabled. At the moment, I was a caregiver. I can't do that work anymore. Um, I'm a roller derby referee, so I call penalties on every week. Uh, she doesn't get that many penalty. She's gone. Um, yeah. Living with two cats and a couple of rabbits and some humans and yeah, pretty much gardening and roller Derby. Hi, everyone. My name is Remi. I just stand up to the back side of the talk, but I came with the, uh, people from South Auckland. Um, so I'm a first generation Samoan born in New Zealand. So my parents came from Samoa, and I'm first generation born here. Um, born in Auckland, Lived in Auckland my whole life. Same house. Still there. It's great. Um, I am currently studying, uh, personal training. Um, but I originally studied design, but I have, you know, yeah, Uh, and other than that, I'm also, um I'll be running Zumba tomorrow morning, so if anyone wants to come check it out, please come. Uh and also, um, I'm also a huge gamer, so I play a lot of games, so yeah, yes. Yeah, but you'll learn more about me as time goes on, but yeah, that's basically me for now. Thank you. So what identities do you all have that, um, makes you feel like a minority within the rainbow community? Um, I could talk a little bit about that. Jeez, we start, I suppose, Um, for me, it's like, I guess, you know, with with my ethnic background, you know that already it already sets things on that, but in terms of, like, you know it, there's always, um in terms of being to Asian Maori is, um, not many. I don't find many people that I can that come from the same place as I do. Um, and they can you know, I personally I don't take too much note of that, but at the same time, it's like you could really tell kind of the difference in the numbers of, you know, um, those that are of, you know, Polynesian or Maori descent. And then, um, just everyone else, if you know what I mean. So it's, um Yeah, there's there's always there's always less and more of everyone else, and sometimes you can get a bit a bit loony. But I'm friends with everyone, so Yeah, it doesn't matter. Um, I also forgot to say my pronouns earlier, so I'm non binary, and my specific label is a gender, which means for those of you who don't know that I don't have a gender. But if I did, it would have to be like a boy. Yeah. So I use that in pronouns. Cool. Um, and the same as a, um I'm like part Maori and Japanese, and that's like a pretty like, rare combination. And because, like, I am so mixed, like, I'm kind of diluted I don't really, like, fit properly into any sort of like ethnic community because I'm not, like, fully anything. So I'm kind of like in this awkward limbo in between, Like, trying to, like, fit into different groups. Um, and also just like being non-binary and by along with the different cultural backgrounds is quite a specialised niche. Yeah, I guess for me, um, the two that I've been thinking a lot about are, uh, my trans, I guess. Um, because I'm very visible. Um, you know, this is actually the second only the second time I've ever worn the skirt, but, um, you know, presenting feminine as somebody who is a side male at birth does. And not passing as feminine as like makes me really, really, really visible when I go out in public. And that can be really scary. Um, and there's also just, like, the notion of how I actually identify which is complicated. Um, you know, and that very, like that notion of, like, not fitting into any box just right. So, like some, like, you know, a gender kind of works, but not all the way gender kind of works, but not all the way. Um, and then them really, really, really fit. Like, I guess I would describe it as somewhere between, like, uh, gay Maleness and trans womanhood. Um, and that's really complicated because nobody knows where to place me when, Like, I guess I would consider myself very womanly. Except I date gay men. And that complicates things a bit. Um, yeah. So that's the like, the one the big one. And the other one like, shouldn't make me feel like a minority, but it kind of does. Um, like, uh, I'm currently getting, uh, pursuing a diagnosis for PTSD. Um, I have have a bit of trauma to deal with and, um, I don't know. I just feel like a lot of the spaces that I do navigate like the the rainbow spaces that I do navigate are, um, it's very difficult to talk openly about those things. And so you do kind of feel isolated alone, and you're a minority and all those things, even though odds are pretty good that it's not a minority status in our community. So being physically disabled, I find a lot of rainbow spaces are just not accessible for me. Um, physically not being able to get into spaces, not being able to stand at standing only events. I've ended up sitting on the pavement at rallies, not being able to get up things like that. Um, I'm also asexuals and a romantic. Um, there's not a lot of awareness. And there is a lot of outright hatred online which sort of impacts all our faces because you come to expect it, and you never know where it's gonna be safe for you to go. Um, I just realised I forgot to mention this earlier. Um, I identify as gay, and I prefer pronouncer or queen. Um, so, uh, for me, I find that, um I struggle a lot with, um different. Uh, my different, I guess. Parts of my background and, um, how balanced they are. So for me, it's not only culture, Uh, because I was born in New Zealand and raised in New Zealand. So, um, not only that, but also, um, I'm I've got an interesting connection with, um religion. So religion was quite difficult for me, Uh, specifically, uh, being brought up in a Christian family, Uh, and also I and my family, I'm the first person to come out as part of the rainbow. So, um, that's quite close. Like, um, for my cousins, big, big family or my cousins, but, um yes. So, I, I personally struggle with the whole balance of not being enough of everything, you know. So, um, not enough of your culture. Not enough of your religion. Not enough of It's always not enough. You know, like, um, but it's all about for me. I struggle with the balance of what? What does it mean to be you? As opposed to What does everyone want you to be? So what challenges do you all face? Um, having those identities and experiences when you're, um I guess in rainbow Communities or Spaces, Um, that could include things, like, Does it Do you feel represented? Do you see other people like yourselves? Do you feel discriminated against? Do you feel like you have access to those spaces? Um, any Oh, yeah, I, too forgot to my pronounce. So it's just, um just her and she Pretty simple, um, being, um being transgender is always very difficult in any group. Um, it's, you know, it's like what Danny said. It's like, you know, if if you stand out, you will stand out, especially in society. Um, And then in the rain community itself, there's always a a lack of representation for the trans community. Um, it's just Yeah, I guess, because it's always And when it first when it first came up, you know, it was founded on on the queer and gay gay humanity, you know, and then the trans community is kind of kind of slowly rolling and after that, but it can be very difficult when um, being a minority and also being transgender, which is also a minority within the queer community, is that you know, you're kind of almost invisible in a way, in terms of, um, support and and finding places to go could be very, very hard. And also yeah. And then when you go out into the public, it's not easy either, because, you know, there's always features that will, people will pick up that can kind of be quite difficult to deal with. Yeah, um, personally, I've had no, um, problems with with any groups or the community, but, um uh, I. I know people that have and I know it exists, and I'm really well aware of it, but I think raising awareness and, um, yeah, raising awareness and kind of giving people information about transgender. It can be, um, you could very change things, because at the moment, it's really like a something that's in the grey area slowly kind of pushing itself forward, you know, with, like, the kind of press releases of, you know, well, some Caitlyn Jenner and stuff. But as much as I hate to admit it, this this individual, you know, it's pretty much, you know, been, you know, now posted all over the world for people to see. But unfortunately, people don't quite understand because, you know, the person, you know, it wasn't quite done in a way, that is, quite I find acceptable. But in the end, it is still exposure. And, you know, I think, you know, just kind of start working from there in a way. But yeah, I, uh, mostly struggle, like within the rainbow community with the lack of intersectionality in some spaces. This was mostly my experience with, like, my high school QS a which I just finished up last year. Um, like I went to a couple of meetings but quickly decided that, you know, I'd help out with various events, but that, like, actually going to the meetings and being in that space wasn't for me. And mostly that was because, um, the QS a then was like predominantly, like NZ European people. And there was, like, kind of a lack of understanding of the crossover with, like, LGBT rights LGBT plus rights and, like racism and the understanding of, like, you know, how both can quite heavily impact a person. And I think like one of those main examples was when that woman Rachel, whatever her name was, was in the media last year about like, trans racialism and I saw a lot of people in, like USA who are NZPO talking about how they didn't understand that. Like how it was different from being transgender, and to me, I was just like, uh, you know, like trying to explain it in a way that wouldn't alienate them. But it was difficult for me because it was quite an emotional subject. And I felt like there was just a lack of understanding between the two things And, um also because in the wider, not like necessarily in the the Rainbow community, but like in wider society in general, non-binary isn't really recognised as, like, a thing in most places. And there's, um, very little positive representation of transgender people in the media in general, or by people like at all. So, yeah, that's where I struggle. I guess I should clarify that I kind of identify as my non binary as well, just as a catch all for boxes aren't neat and don't fit. Don't like boxes, not a cat. Sometimes I wanna be a cat, but not Oh, my God, No, That's not true. I'm not very, um, yeah, it's very good for me, but, um, I love kids. But, um, I guess for me it's like because I'm not fitting into either any of those boxes, especially spaces that are kind of inclusive by a design or maybe necessity, Um, just aren't sure what to do with me. So I encounter a lot of gatekeeping, especially when, like, um, you know, I just gotta be careful how I identify with people when I'm trying to get to certain places. So if, like, I'm navigating gay male spaces, I'll just say non binary I won't like, say, identify with womanhood. Um, but when it comes to like accessing women's spaces, um, it's very complicated because often times a lot of the time now, uh, those spaces will be like, Yes, we recognise that non-binary people are marginalised, too. You're welcome in our spaces. Um, but then they'll also say, um, the space is not for males. And then it's like, Well, which one are you trying to put me in? Um, and that causes a lot of confusion. Especially like if you say, like male instead of men, which comes up very often. And so, like, you know, I don't identify with manhood, and so I don't have a problem with that? Um, but when it comes to male, I don't know if those people like are, you know, understand trans issues enough to be able to, like, make the understand the differences between sex and gender. Um, and whether they're just seeing like me for my assigned sex, which has nothing to do with, um, like, cis gender. Um, the gender I was assigned at birth. Um, and so, like I, I get turned away a lot. I feel like I've been turned away a lot for the by those things, and I have been turned away by those things. Um, because they kind of functions, as I guess, a dog whistle. Um, so it's like it doesn't It's innocuous to everybody else, his men male or whatever. Um, but to me, I hear it, and I'm like, OK, well, are you trying to low key? Tell me that you think I'm male and I don't belong here because you think of me as a man or not. And, um so, yeah, it gets really, really, really tricky on that front for me in particular, because I just don't fit neatly into the boxes. A major one is people not thinking through accessibility issues. So I've had things like people not realising that the lift at the venue has a key code. People who were told by an able bodied venue owner that there were no stairs and took them at their word and didn't check that was a forum of disability rights that got cancelled because there was, in fact, a step. Um, things like that. People just don't follow through and check things up or people who don't think about it to start with. Um, accessibility needs to be on the page from day one, and it needs to be put out there if there are stairs, if it is uphill, any of that so that people know, Um and then the other one with a arrow issues. So Ace is asexuals. Arrow is a romantic. We're just not on people's radar. So, especially with a lot of the culture that there is online with gatekeeping, you need to really be explicit if we are welcome, because a lot of us tend to assume that we're not because of just the things we've come across in the wider community, particularly online. And there is a lot of gatekeeping just because we're a new thing for people and new things are scary. Yeah. So for me personally, I've always struggled with my upbringing, Uh, as a Christian. Um, So, um, being someone is quite a big thing in my family, and I work quite across, uh, across the board, like with all my aunties and uncles, siblings and stuff. Um, but I found that for me, growing up, it got to a point where it felt like I couldn't breathe through all of that. Like, you know, I didn't have the space to, uh, come to terms with who I was because there was so much expectations for what I should be in terms of what I should believe who I should be, Um, like, you know, are you enough? Can you speak? You know, there's a lot of pressure for those sort of things. So I had to sort of take myself back and just think, OK, who am I? How do how does this make me feel? And then it got to a point where I I'm still very, um respectful of everyone's beliefs because I still believe that no matter what you believe in If it gets you through the day like, you know, we've all been through the years. You know, everyone's made it through in their own way. Who's to say that there's only one answer, But I find that, um, with religion, uh, when I'm in a space where, uh, how should I say a lot of people identify with, say, Christianity. It's very hard for me because I don't personally fit into that box anymore, just with me. So what I am very respectful of everyone around who does believe is just for me. I feel like I can't speak about how I feel, I guess in terms of how just the way it was represented through my upbringing, that's a personal thing. But so I struggle with, um, discussions around beliefs and religion. How do you think? Um, Rambo spaces and communities can be more inclusive of people who identify in the same or similar ways to you. I know a couple of you have already touched on some things, but you gonna expand it all? Yeah, I think it was like I explained before. It's like, um, with, like the transgender community in particular, it's, um I think it's It's spreading awareness information because, um, a lot of people make assumptions or can say very hurtful things about realising it to this, you know, to someone who's transgender and many times I had to kind of like protest or kind of like, you know, inform an individual about you know, how insulting their words were. Especially on social media. Um, like to educate. It's good to educate and to let people know that, yeah, we do exist. And then, you know, you know, we're not like we're not entertainment, you know? We're not like we're not kind of like, you know, something to be kind of paraded around as freaks Or, you know, to be laughed at in terms of like, because if you see how, like, you know, um, trans transgender people have been represented like, say, in Hollywood or in films, you know, it's always it's always been a joke. Um, and people tend to like, take it on like that, and it can get very frustrating when people kind of respond to it. In a way, it's like, Oh, hey, you know, Y. You just you know, you're just a guy in a dress and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, Or you're a sexual deviant because, you know, I've seen many things or, you know, this is all I've kind of been exposed to in terms of the way or or like Oh, you're only doing this to get into the ladies' bathroom. You know, it it people to, you know, be real dodgy. And it's like, No, you don't understand. So I think, um, yeah, kind of just to kind of get rid of, you know, the these ideals within, Especially I'm talking about, you know, not just the rainbow, You know, not the rainbow community I'm talking about, Really. It's pretty much like everything else. Um, and also like as families can be very hard to deal with. Um, especially because since they too don't know, you know, especially like your parents. You know, they come from a generation where, you know, a lot of these terms never really apply to them. And so, you know, when their child does come out to transgender, they either freak out or, you know, kind of take it in a bad way, because that's in terms of what they've been exposed to in their lives, Um, could be very, very difficult. So I think, Yeah, um, really just, you know, presenting. You know, if we had, like, the correct the right role models to go out there and really kind of give the correct information and take away the kind of social stigma put towards people with transgender, then, you know, I think it'll be very fantastic. And I think, you know, we're in a day and age now where it has become more acceptable and things are changing because, you know, we have the younger generation. We have us, you know, and everyone else that's going to be coming into this world will have a, um a better understanding of all these subjects. And I think, Yeah, you know, the future will be brightening again, but it's gonna take a while to get there. Yeah, um, add on to what I said. Um, basically, if you're like a trans ally or you're just a rain community ally in general, um, something for you guys personally to do if you're brave enough is if you just hear someone saying something like, kind of ignorant or using slurs, and you're comfortable with just saying Hey, you know, that's kind of not OK, Um, like, not necessarily in an aggressive way, like telling them that they're like crap and stuff, but just, like gently pull them aside and be like, Yo, you know, there's some extra information on it Or, like, you know, just spreading positive information and educating people in a way that isn't like confrontational. Because, you know, I've tried the confrontational approach and it just makes people angry and they just don't wanna listen to anything you've got to say, even though it is like an emotional subject for quite a lot of people. Um, and the same goes for cultural prejudice, I guess as well, like not necessarily calling people out on it like all the time, but also like educating yourself so that, you know, like, what isn't isn't OK to talk about like or, you know, say to someone who is of a certain background and, um yeah, also, just being gene generally aware of of different sets of issues is cool. Um, I wonder if you had anything else to add around, um being and, um and completely forgot about that. How many things do you have like um, minority art. A minority? Um, yeah. With with being by, um, like, I do experience like prejudice as well from, um, sis, gay people and sis lesbian people. Because, you know, there's a lot of really stupid singers around by people like, Oh, you just need to pick a side and oh, you're gonna cheat and you're promiscuous and stuff like I once when I identified a sis, had a guy come up to me and say that I had a fetish for girls implying that women weren't people, Um, which is a bit concerning. But, um, I guess with that as well, it's also just spreading positive information about it and like having like if you personally, because, you know, everyone is kind of prejudiced to some extent because that's the way that we're brought up to think by society and media in general. We're, um, conditioned from a very young age to think a certain way, and you have to actively dismantle all of those prejudices within yourself. Like I still have transphobic thoughts. And I've been out as no by for like, a bit over a year, and it takes time and effort to actively stop yourself from thinking this way because that's the way that we've all been brought up to think. So if you just put a little bit of effort in every other day to just be like, Hey, this isn't OK, I'm gonna be Zen and not be, like, having a chill. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I'm starting to see a lot of positive changes come into effect. Um, so at there is a space called the women's room, Um, which is just a permanent space that uniq currently lacks. Working on that, Um, that is just a safe space for to go. Um, now they have signs. I know that explicitly say, because they had a run in with a turf, apparently a trans exclusive. Uh, radical feminist, Um, basically, people who just know trans know about trans people but are still actively transphobic anyway and think that that's feminist. Um, but I guess they had an encounter with one of those people. And so, uh, now there are signs within the women's room that say that the space is open for women and non-binary people. They just, you know, probably a step forward. It does make me feel a lot more comfortable to set foot in there. Um, even though, like depending on the context, I guess I would identify as one or the other or both on either, Um, just, uh, hang on to keep my thoughts organised by writing them down. Um, but despite that, I still experience and see, like, a lot of stratification of femininity and which ones are valid or not. Um uh, So, for example, um, somebody once literally told me. And, um Ok, fine. So you're trans feminine and whatever, but you're not a trans woman. And there's really very, very, very little distinction, if any at all, Especially when it comes to, you know, to who needs access to certain spaces. Right? Um and like, I think part of the root of that problem is like, how, uh, how I present it, because it's not always like this. Um, like I said when we were going over kind of the, um what do you call them? Not the ground rules, but the stuff at the very beginning that we all read out. Yeah. Yeah, that's just the values that you know. You know, I was talking about how we need to trust in each other that this is a space and rec safe space and recognise that some people may not be the way they are here, back home or whatever. Um, and you know, I definitely feel that way, I. I don't get to wear my skirt very often. Um, because, you know, there's like, I I'm not like I I'll get the shit kicked out of me. You know, if I walk down our if I walk down our street to campus or whatever a night wearing a you know, a skirt, I'll get punished for wearing lipstick in ways that cisgender women don't necessarily, Um, and so that stratification really like that. Just that some femininity are worth more than others is really upsetting to me on that front. Um, because you know, So I you know, sometimes it's not even sometimes it's dysphoric, and sometimes it's not. But sometimes I, you know, I just present more. Um, I hate to use the word masculine because it doesn't fit me at all, but it's kind of how it looks to other people. Um and so I get, like, kind of the the like, the label of the part time fem or whatever. Um, when I'm always fem and I'm always feminine and my femininity is just as valid as that obsess women. Um, yeah, that's it. It basically comes back to looking out for one another. Um, a lot of the stuff that gets said about various groups said behind our backs. So if you hear it and it's safe for you to say something, say something. Um, if it's not safe for you to say something, depending on where you are, you might be able to sort of go around and get someone else to say something like, I don't know, teachers or whatever. Coaches go for it if you can, um and yeah, building it in to organisations and events right from the start. So don't wait for a disabled person or a nice person or whatever to ask. Is this for us and make it for them from the start and put that on your event pages. Think about it and just make sure people can actually get into this space and feel welcome there. Um, so for me, uh, I guess it goes back to what I said earlier with, um, the idea of balance. Uh, so the struggles that I have not only with religion also come with stuff like family, um, religion. And there's family culture. There's so many things that you struggle. Um, when I was growing up, you know, I raised a certain way that you when you're young, you're just like, I'll just go with it. But when you get to a certain age, you start thinking, Wait, this doesn't really fit me. And then when I came out into the space that accepted me, I found that some of the conflicts I had within my family were raised again. So there's still a lot of, um, times where, um, religion still hits me. And it's very hard for me to talk about it to people who who identify in that particular religion, which would be Christianity. Um, just with the way that it was, um, presented to me through my parents and my family, um, I find that it's hard to talk to to talk to people who identify under that religion about me, not necessarily identifying completely under it. Um, I'm very big on how does it make you feel within yourself? Um, so I think that I definitely think things are changing. And, um, people are becoming more open to discuss things. But I still think religion is still a very difficult one because you're raised in a certain way. And then that's all you know. And then you get to a point Where does this really fit me? So it's Yeah, But I think, um, just having a an open mind to discussion. And, um, I think we'll find that the core values that we all want and we all need are actually very similar. Um, yeah. Last this year, have you ever had an experience, um, or experiences of being in a space, Um, where you did feel affirmed and validated and, um, I guess included. Um And I don't know if you want to share anything about that and how that made you feel or what they did. Um, and you're welcome to pass if you don't feel like you've had an experience like that, Um, yeah, uh, I used to, um, be a part of the, um, group called Transform. So, um, transform is a, uh, kind of a youth group for trans Youth meeting once every fortnight. And, um, it is a space where, um, trans youth meet up and, uh, select individuals would facilitate the event. Um, I find that space very accommodating because it's it's a it's a perfect It's a perfect, um, time and opportunity for us to discuss matters and issues amongst each other and just be very open with ourselves without worrying about you know, anything on the outside, we can have a safe environment. And and, um, I think that where I feel probably the most accepted and safe is roller derby. Um, the role of Derby community is, um, quite highly accepting of, um, of of queer and trance. Um, they actually actually have the, um, the is it? What? What what's the stand for again? Women's Track Derby Association. But the Derby Association in general, um, actually has rules put in place to avoid, um, bullying and harm of, um, people of their, you know, their gender identity, um, as well as, um, rules set in place for, um, trans women to compete at their leisure without any hassle. You know, prejudice or transphobia. Um, and if those were to ever be, if that were to ever happen, disciplinary action will happen. So It's very good to know to be a part of a A and a sport that's accepting and a community that actually, um, you know, takes note of that and sets rules in place to protect, um, queer, uh, queer and trans people, So yeah. No. So when I'm when I'm on that track, you know, I feel very comfortable with myself. Very happy, because I know I'm surrounded by people that are very accepting, and we're all there to participate and do one thing. Yeah. Hit each other with skates. Yeah, pretty much. Um, So I talked about how my school QS a was, like, not a place where I really felt safe for various reasons. Um, and that's why I didn't go to many meetings and I didn't really like I wasn't involved in any other rainbow community groups prior to that, um, or after until the beginning of this year, when I started volunteering with inside out. Yeah, um, and that was really, really cool for me, because about a year ago I figured out that I was on binary, and I didn't really know how to deal with it. Um, and I didn't really know who to talk to because, like, I only had, like, one in real life, like non-binary friend and like, their experience was quite different from mine. Um, so I didn't really have space that I could properly talk about it and, like, you know, hash out my feelings about the whole process. Um, And so when I went to the first meeting for inside out and I was like, Hm, you know what? I'm just gonna I'm just gonna use that in pronouns like I'm just gonna do it. And then, like, everyone was immediately like, yep, cool, like, fully accepting. And I was just like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. And they were also really cool when I, like, was using a different name than the one that I'd like when I met you. Like ages ago, I was using a different name, and that was just a really awesome experience for me, So yeah. Um, so at the beginning of last year, I actually met several of the members of Auckland's no pride in prisons group, uh, before they'd actually formed as no pride in prisons. It was actually like, two or three weeks before Auckland Pride actually happened, and then we had her unbroken at the protest and all that. Um, and it was like I just met her. It was like, Oh, my God. Um, but when I was hanging out with them in that space, you know, um, it was really, really powerful for me to be, like, immediately just seen and read as feminine, regardless of like how I was dressed because I had just been travelling. Um, I was visiting. I was visiting my family in Seattle and was, um, passing through Auckland to meet them. Meet this with this group because I've, you know, been connecting with them on social media. Of course, before I actually met them. So I was gonna do that on my way back to Wellington. Um, and so, you know, I've been travelling, So I was dressed in my leftover boy clothes to, uh, stay safe during that time. And despite that, you know, I said, and actually, I had a beard grow out at the time, too, And, um, despite that, you know, I didn't I said, you know, they they knew me. Um, I was like, Hi, I'm Danny. They then blah, blah blah, but they immediately just saw me with a capital S rather than just like, you know, I'm literally seeing all of you in the room now. But like, they saw me for who I am, so I kind of say it as like a capital S. Um, So despite how I looked, they immediately understood that I was feminine. And that was really, really powerful for me because, you know, I do battle with dysphoria every now and then, Um, particularly because, like, I guess this is a This is a place where non-binary would be a more useful term Is, um, for me to describe myself is that like I? I don't know what I want to look like because there's no, you know, there's not even a like a set narrative, I guess, for what? What NON-BINARY looks like. So I get this quote because I don't know what it looks like, but it's not that sort of thing. Um and that did not matter to the, um who are now in a pride in prison group up in Auckland. They just immediately knew and they just stood and saw me for that. And I just felt really well held by that group. Um, and yeah. And the result of that is they suck me into the private prisons. So just looking at things and events since I've held my current identities and since people have known I'm gonna have to pass, um, I don't know if you guys have heard of the Armageddon Expo. Yeah, So, um, uh, last year, I have grown a lot in terms of my own personal development with accepting who I am and just discovering that balance within myself. I'm a bit of a lone wolf in that way, but, um, I really do believe that it's really important that you yourself know who you are, as opposed to me worrying about what everyone thought that balance needed to be. So, for example, because I can't speak, um, Samoan doesn't make me any less Samon stuff like that. You know, um, just because I personally don't identify with my religion at the moment doesn't mean that I didn't benefit from anything that, you know, I took out what I could from my experiences. Um, back to Armageddon Expo. So last year, Um, I was super. I was super happy, and I was like, You know what? I'm gonna cosplay for the first time, and I went in a certain, uh, moon, You might know the one, um and I went because I play street fighter, so I'm very I'm very all over the place, but I play street fighter, so I went to go check it out, and there was a, um, a Polynesian male, a very masculine guy who was playing. And I was so nervous because I was dressed in my sailor moon costume and I was like, But I wanna play street fighter like, you know, like I really want to play. So I lined up and I played and he didn't Even better. He played against me and he was talking to me like, just as normal. And he was like, Oh, you're actually really good, Like you should join our group. And I was like, Oh, really? It was like, really, you know, I was like, wow, like it was such a positive experience for me because it was a fear that I had, like, I already had, like, I was so worried. And I guess that is a testament to how far we have come while we still have a long way to go. But that was a really great experience. So, um, yeah, I go to watch the competition sometimes not in sale moon yet, but maybe, you know, thank you. Um, before we close this part of the Does anyone have any questions for the panel? I don't have any questions, but I do have a couple of things I would like to talk about myself. Um, I learned very strongly to what David was saying about a lot of the issues with, um, non bitters and trans femininity. Um, especially with, um, the intersection between mental health issues and trans femininity, because they're kind of used as excuses to deny someone the agency over the other one. Like when I'm talking about trans people like, Oh, well, you're mentally ill. And, you know, obviously your identity is just mental illness or function of mental illness, and vice versa. When I'm talking about my mental illnesses, people go, Oh, well, you know, it's it's all just a giant attention seeking gambit. Um, even though, you know, even I fought to seek, um, diagnoses, and I'm currently getting some more recently fingers crossed, but, um, that combined with the hyper visibility thing. I was very I. I feel like I. I also had a lot of the agency robbed of me, um, in in regulating my visibility because it was immediate. I was, You know, I was shown a really false kind of sugar coated version of what it would be like. Um, you know, my area is is tolerant and accepting, you know, one of the good ones. Everyone's going to be fine. Just go out in the street beard dress, it be all good. Um, and, um, I'm not really sure. I just wanted to talk a bit about how, um, transforming people and especially transforming people with mental illness are often, um, denied quite a lot of agency, both over regulating our own safety and our own identities. Thank you. Anyone else have any questions or comments you'd like to ask? Um, I went back on the topic of day. How they were. They were also talking about how, like, it's quite hard for relationship wise, whereas like even though you've still got kind of the trans femininity, it's like straight. This man won't consider your body, but gay men would gaming shouldn't really be attracted because of the femininity. And then that's the same with the other, right? You know, straight, straight woman wouldn't really be attracted to you because you know, you're a woman, too. But then at least being a woman probably wouldn't consider your body either. So it's you gotta try. It's really hard. And it it's quite lonely to find someone in that sort of regards being Trans. And with Trans, it's just you're quite isolated from certain types of relationships And what not because of? Because you're not sure what you are either. So you're not sure what people want from you, I suppose, Um, yeah, I feel that a lot. Um, my sexuality journey has actually been very different from my, uh, gender journey, I guess. Um, they're obviously still very intertwined, but, like, um, you know, I went to the sexuality stuff first because I didn't discover what Trans this even was until later on. Of course. Um, sounds like the just being there, you know, starting to change a bit. Um, but, uh, what was I gonna say? But yeah. So, like, it's I don't know for me, you know, II, I don't think that there's any one way or another, uh, on, like, the born this way debate. If, like you were born this way or you chose to be this way. Um, I think it's very different for very different people. I think for me, though, um, like my sexuality was something that, um, I didn't choose. Whereas my gender is something I came into a bit more, um, at the same time, it's not to say that, like, I was a socialised male and changed that, um, because I wasn't for various reasons. Um, one of them like being I'm pretty sure I'm on the autism spectrum, and that's really affected the way my socialisation into society has occurred. Um, and where was I going with that? You has something for me off. Um, so, like, because of the specific traumas that I went through coming into my sexual identity, Um, like, I still want to navigate gay male spaces. And this is the game. Just speaking for myself. Personally, um, I still like that's the place where, um, I feel most comfortable, if not the safest necessarily, Um, which is, you know, another really weird, awkward, complicated, boxy thing. Um, or like Unbox thing. Um, but, you know, I'm still going steady with my partner for over a year now. Um, and he's really embracing our stuff, and he gets, like, you know, um, you know, I know there's a lot of people in here who don't identify with that, and that's why we kind of use Rainbow Community as a casual now. But like Queerness as a term still resonates hugely with me. Um, both in the way that my dad used the word offensively growing up. Um so, like going through the process of kind of reclaiming it for myself. Um, but also, uh, just in terms of not having to follow the rules, you know, um, like, I can be feminine and I can dedicate it and it's still gay. It's not imitating heterosexuality. Um, and so that's become really important to me. And I'm very lucky now to have a partner who sees that and recognises that and, you know, periodically have the conversation of, like, you know, I'm at home, so I'm not impressing anybody. And so to avoid laundry day for another couple of days, I wear my best of boy clothes, and so like that happens a lot around him. And we had a conversation recently about, like, you know, I'm not. You know, I feel like you aren't seeing the whole me right now. Um, So we went on a dinner date and I put on lipstick, um, and some of my more feminine clothes, and he was totally cool with it. And it's been, like, really embracing with that. And that's been really powerful and important to me. I think Roll it to everyone. They call me too high, enter a roller derby and then discovered that I wasn't accepting an open community. Or did you realise that it was an accepted open community and then get into it? Um, no, actually, yeah. I don't know. I just I joined it. Then I found out it was an accepting community. Um, it took a lot of guts to join because, like it's being a being a woman's sport and, um, something I really want to be a part of At the time, I was very nervous. Of how? Because, like, in terms of like how, um, you know, the sports community responds to transgender individuals is, you know, can be very difficult because, you know, you always get the conflicting argument. It's like, Oh, this person shouldn't be on this team because, you know, they were originally IML, you know, it's unfair. It's a competitive advantage. But, um, no, I didn't get any of that, um, joining that community and and, you know, training in that sport I I Yeah, I found out that it's quite well accepting. And there's actually a, um, a Derby league dedicated for the rainbow community called, uh, regime. Yeah. So, uh, well, VRDL so regime regime Derby League, um, which is like a a collective of all the, um kind of like a from all over New Zealand, joining this one group so they can compete against other leagues, if possible. So finding out that there's also if I, you know, I have my league. But then knowing there's another league I I can join to compete with as well is fantastic. Yeah. Um, I did join not knowing that and finding out that it was that really just helped boost my confidence. And Yeah, and like I said, it's like it's It's one of the very few sports that is quite accepting. You know, And it doesn't, you know, and has rules in place to protect that and so that you can keep competing. Yeah, it was got heaps of questions, but possibly, um I mean, referring to Danny Danny talking about Sorry to put you under the spot again. Um, and your story about, uh, your sexuality and your gender identity, um, forming in different ways at different times. And I think that's just a thing to note in rainbow Communities to acknowledge that gender and sexuality as well as, um, gender presentation and sexual characteristics. Unfortunately, we haven't got any intersex, uh, representation here, So that's a shame that will be talked about this evening. And so just acknowledging that those things, though for some may be interlinked closely aren't necessarily linked at all particularly, um, with people who identify as ace or arrow and also as transgender because a lot of people, even within the trans community, may assume that your gender is interlink with your sexuality, but, um, yeah, so basically, just take note of that. Yeah, I think I mentioned it. I just want to emphasise the game. Like, um, I don't want to speak for over anybody like my I said those things about for me separately. For other people, they may be very, very, very closely intertwined. Um and yeah, I think, like, I like the word queer a lot, because for me, it just means throwing out the rulebook in a lot of ways. And anything goes, everything's valid in those ways. Um, but I didn't, of course, also recognise that that word is very uncomfortable for comfortable for a lot of people. Um, so yeah. So in that balance, Absolutely. Um I was just gonna say, like, how would you get involved in doing roller Derby? Like, if you like. I kind of want to do it, but, um, like, participate in roller Derby, But, like, how would I do that? Um, that's simple for, um, really? Because, um, we we will, um I will provide you. We will just provide people who are interested with, like, a, um, a link or, you know, uh, email address and they can get in contact with the recruitment officer. So Well, all the machine, the whole gets all these people doing things, but, um, yeah, we called, um fresh meat. So that's what we call our beginners. fresh, fresh meat. So, um yeah, essentially, you just you contact the league through the fresh meat. Um, email address, Um, telling the recruitment officer, obviously You wanna join? And yeah, they'll sort you out. Yeah, simple as that. Um, sorry to waste the time, but I just wanted to say it's great to see the representation that there is especially like of the, like, ace and arrow Spectrum, because that's not talked about a lot. And like, I'm questioning that and yeah, also, like people who don't necessarily fit into the normal trends like the way it's meant to happen, people who could be non binary or like, not fit into those boxes. It's just really great to see this shit. Um, so I would just like to give a huge round of applause and thank you. It's it's so so, um brave and and vulnerable for people to come up here and share those identities, especially when they have a history of not being felt made to feel welcome and safe in in communities like this. So just Yeah, thank you so much for your generosity today, And I'm sure, um, all of our panellists will be around during the week. If you have further questions, if you identify similarly or a question, if you want to come and chat to them, if there's anything that they don't want to answer, they can. They'll let you know that, Um, but happy Have you chat to people about that? Yeah. Awesome. So, um, what we're gonna do now is we'll keep it quite quite quick. Um, so about 10 minute brainstorm sessions, um, on some of these different identities. And you're welcome to add in others if you want as well. Um, and how we think we can make our communities more inclusive of them or, um, Or if you think there's maybe some other things that haven't been raised on this, um, panel. Because, of course, with limited time, we can only cover so much. And there's heaps of stuff in our community. Um, yeah, if you wanna raise those as well you're welcome to. So maybe either go to a group that you is one that you think you'd like to learn more about, and, um, really want to learn how you can be more inclusive to people like that in your spaces or, um, groups or you could go to one that you identify with. And you think you might be able to, um, give some really good ideas for how you'd like to feel more included? Um and then we'll have, um, morning tea and a little break. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. 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The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/shift_hui_2016_beyond_rainbows.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089738. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.