The title of this recording is "Sexuality and Gender workshop - Shift hui". It is described as: Shift hui participants take part in a workshop on sexuality and gender. It was recorded in Tapu te Ranga Marae, 46C Rhine Street, Island Bay, Wellington on the 17th April 2015. Carl Greenwood is speaking at an event, along with other unidentified speakers,.  Their name is spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 45 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the event. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast hui participants take part in a workshop on sexuality and gender. The hui ran from the 16 - 19 April 2015 at Tapu Te Ranga Marae in Island Bay, Wellington. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This abstract summarizes the content of a recording titled "Sexuality and Gender workshop - Shift hui" from an event held at Tapu te Ranga Marae in Wellington on April 17th, 2015. The speakers of the workshop include prominent figures like Carl Greenwood, along with professionals from Family Planning and other undisclosed participants. The workshop serves as an interactive platform, offering insight into various aspects of sexuality and gender. Participants engage in a lively exchange of questions and answers, delving into the specific needs and concerns of the queer community. One topic covered in the workshop is the necessity of cervical smears for female-to-male transgender individuals. The advice offered highlights the importance of these health checks for anyone with a uterus and cervix, regardless of gender identity. The discussion pivots to strategies surrounding coming out, emphasizing the need for support networks and addressing the challenges faced by individuals in non-supportive environments, such as rural areas or unsupportive family situations. Another significant portion of the recording touches on HIV/AIDS, making a distinction between living with HIV and having an AIDS diagnosis. The speakers highlight the impact of HIV and AIDS on one's life, despite advances in treatment, the importance of early testing, and dispelling common myths about the virus's transmission. The discussion also features a broad segment on sexual identities and attractions, drawing distinctions between bisexual, pansexual, and polysexual orientations. This illustrates the fluidity and personal nature of identity, as well as the importance of having an array of terms to accurately reflect individuals' experiences and preferences. Binding techniques for transgender individuals are highlighted too, with practical advice on safe practices and the risks associated with certain methods. Additionally, precautions surrounding the use of sex toys are mentioned, particularly around sterilization and prevention of STI transmission. The workshop stresses the pertinence of clear communication in relationships, particularly concerning consent and comfort with sexual activities. The importance of honest discussions, not just with long-term partners but in any sexual encounter, is underscored as crucial for maintaining healthy and respectful engagements. In conclusion, participants leave with a richer understanding of the complex issues surrounding sexual health and gender identity, the tools to navigate their personal experiences safely, and the encouragement to spread this knowledge within their communities. The full transcription of the recording begins:  OK, so welcome, everyone. Thanks for having us. Um, come and talk to you. And hopefully we're gonna answer your questions. We've already had a quick look, and there's some there that I think, uh, you can probably answer better than us, so we'll hand those ones over the floor. So my name is Zaha. I'm from family planning here in Wellington. Um, with health promotion. And this is our panel, So I'm just gonna pass the microphone along and they can introduce themselves. Oh, hi. I'm Carl Greenwood, and I used to work for NZIF. And now I work for needle exchange. Hi. My name's Rose. I'm a nurse, and I work at family planning in the clinic And Margaret Sparrow Centre in Victoria Street. Hi, I'm Marica. I'm a health promoter for family planning. So first question, I'm a female to male trans guy. Do I still need to get smears? So I think I'm gonna pass this one on to Rose. Well, first of all, um, I'd just like to tell you all that I actually have a trans daughter-in-law, so that's not the reason I'm here. But it's just kind of interesting, because I never expected that to happen. And, um but it doesn't mean I've got any expertise, any particular expertise? So if what I'm going to say about that is that if you've got a uterus, you still need a smear if you've got a uterus and a cervix, because if you all know that you have a smear because of the risk of cervical cancer, and you pick up that risk whenever from early on in your sexual life. So if you've got risk for cervical cancer and you've got a uterus and you've got a cervix, hopefully it's accessible and you'll need a smear. Thanks, Rose. OK, um, I'd like to ask about people and how they should approach coming out. So, Carl, would you like to respond to that in the first instance? Well, only in the first instance, I think coming out is you need to gather support around you. You need to find like minded people. So you need to maybe talk to someone, um, a counsellor at your school. There might be a a group, um, or another youth group in the region in Wellington. There's schools out, but that's only in Wellington. Um, but there is QS a groups all over the place. But I think the biggest thing is about finding support for for yourself, so that when you get hard times or you're trying to talk to your parents, that you've actually got other people to talk to who understand and can support you, it's. But there must be other things to add to that. And also, we're quite welcome to have comments from the floor. Is there anyone else who would like to kind of and part some wisdom around this one for people? No, I just wanted to say that like, um well, sometimes with the QS A is not exactly helpful. I mean, sometimes some of us actually can't even go to those because, like in my school, I can't do that. Yeah, everyone that, like spreads rumours, goes to it so no one can go to it anymore. Um, I think, yeah, in those situations, it's It's so hard, especially if you're in a a rural area. Um, I think I guess we're really lucky that there are also such great online communities that we can, um, turn to. So there's some great New Zealand resources and Facebook groups and things like that, Um, which are an option if you literally don't have a support group near you or don't have anyone, Um, that, you know that you can can turn to but, um yeah, I guess as as Well, just maybe, um, someone you think who might understand it. Um, just sometimes it's good to to try to try and trust someone, and often you will get a really good response. Would it be possible at all to, you know, put something up somewhere for the next few days that people could add, like online places they found that are really kind of useful and helpful for people? 0, 800 numbers there. There's one there. So, yeah, there's yeah, sometimes just about having a bit of a google around and finding what's what's out there. I just want to say sometimes it can be really hard, especially if your family is religious and does not necessarily condone being homosexual because of the religion. But the important thing to remember is that lots of people of the same religion do act, are actually OK with it. So it's not necessarily what I'm trying to say is that, like, just because your family is overly religious does not mean you can't confide in other people who are religious because everyone has a different attitude on that. I think just tell somebody that you know is gonna be cool with it, or you think that there is a high of being cool with it because it's hard, I think, and also with the people that are close to you. But if you've got some support behind you, then it's a lot easier from that point. Um, and 11 thing. One thing a lot of people kind of overlook, I think, is that coming out is essentially it's a subjective process and you've got to come out for you, not for other people. OK, next question, and I'm going to get Mara to answer this one for us. What's the difference between buy pans and Polly and mostly pans and Polly buy only a little bit pans and Polly? Mostly, um, I guess I can kind of give my understanding of those identities and then maybe open up for the floor if anyone wants to add something to that. So my understanding of buy is around being attracted to men and to women. Um, and some people see that as Yeah, we can add more. Um, some people see that as somewhat of a win term. Um, my understanding of Pan is being attracted to people of any gender that not necessarily like it doesn't really matter what the gender is of the person. You may be attracted to them anyway, Um, Poly, my understanding of that is more around. Whether you would just be interested in some kind of relationship with one person at a time, or whether you're open to sexual and or emotional relationships with more than one person who would like to add. I see someone who would like to first I I kind of a loud voice. OK, so I'm non-binary and bisexual. I see bisexuality as being attraction to the same gender as yourself and other genders. Pansexual is being attracted to any of the possibility of being attracted to any gender and poly sexual rather than polyamorous. I think you were going polys is kind of being attracted to many genders, but not all genders. For example, Um, I'm attracted to all women, all more binary people, but not many men. Yeah. Thank you. Well, um, personally, I identify by, but I am attracted to non-binary people. And I think, um, for me, Pan is more like gender isn't a factor in your attraction. And I think some people see it as that Some people see it as all genders. But for me, gender is a factor in attraction. So I go with bye. You know, it's, um I think what you said was really, really, um great and exactly what I was gonna say. Um, I would just add that, um yeah, I think there's so much stigma and, um, kind of myths and stuff about what the word bisexual means. And it's, um yes, I think it's a really, I think with all all of these identities, it's something that can be really personal to us, and we can decide what that means for us. Um, but I think, Yeah, there's been often a lot of talk about bisexual being an identity that is about the binary and male and female and not being inclusive of, um, people who are who are non marry or gender queer or transgender. But that is not the case. That's not the history of that word. And There's so many people in the Trans and Non-binary community who use that, um, identity of bisexual as well. So I think it's really important that, um, we don't label bisexual as this binary term because that's not what it is. But it's awesome that we also have other words, like pansexual and poly sexual. I tend to think of pansexual as sort of more like, um, you don't really like care what gender they are. You sort of just like you. Basically, it's kind of like that person is just you just like them. You don't really think of it as like a gender thing or any other sort of thing. You don't really care about like, Well, really any of the main, um, McKees. It's just sort of like I like this person. It's That's how I think of it as is. It's just I like this person. Not for any particular reason. I just do. Um, my, um, sister is the pan. So, um, from her understanding, she told me that, um, she basically likes, um, a person for their personality, not by their gender. I just wanted to put that up, OK, Can you have Oh, No. Can you use vaginal condoms for anal six? Yeah, the answer is yes. I'm sure. The thing is, is it working? Is it staying in one piece? Um, the thing is, these things they're not tested in that situation in a sort of scientific way to say, you know, we know for sure in the in the literature that we know this is OK, but you know, from practise and from doing it that it probably is fine. It's like it's a bit similar to the question. Can I reuse a vaginal condom? Know, Because lots of settings where they're hard to get And that's all women have. Um, so they wash them and reuse them, and that's that's probably OK. You just need to inspect it afterwards. OK? Uh oh, this might be one for Carl. So So what is HIV? What is a DS? What do they mean? And what are the differences and how do they hurt us? Wow, it is. But it's also the question I get asked the most. What is HIV and what is a IS? And what's the difference? So it's, um HIV is a virus. I'm not going to give you the big long name because it's, you know, a big, long name. Um, it's a virus that is contracted through blood and semen. Uh, it is also in tears and saliva, but on such microscopic amounts that you can, you really only catch it from blood and semen. Using a condom stops it, which is the main way. It's it's really in New Zealand. It's it's It's an epidemic in the gay community because it's easily passed on through anal sex. Um, sometimes if you go to the doctor, they'll say, Take a suppository, which is putting a pill up into your anus and why they say that is because the pill will be absorbed straight into the bloodstream. And that's the same like with HIV and semen. If it goes into the anal passage, it will be absorbed straight into the bloodstream. So then you're left with a virus that you have to live with. At first, it, um, you'll just live your life normally, and it won't have too much effect apart from when you see a convert or be getting like a case of the flu. But then, as you live longer with HIV, what it does is it attacks your immune system so it slowly hammers away at your immune system. And it depletes your immune system to the point that where things that your body would naturally fight like shingles or thrush or, um, diarrhoea, um, stomach problems. Um, just things like that that your body would normally, um, be able to fight off the flu. When you've got no immune system, then your body can't fight it off, and then it starts having sort of this effect of running you right down so you so you don't have the ability to lead a normal life. You lose energy, you can lose weight. And, as I said, you can get, you know, really bad diarrhoea and stuff when you get to a point with the with the virus. So you've lived, say, with the virus. I'll give myself as an example. I lived with the virus for 10 years, and it was only HIV at that point. But then when I got so crooked that I really couldn't cope anymore, I actually ended up with an AIDS diagnosis. So it's not it, it's the virus. You've still got the virus and nothing changes. But it's what happens within yourself to give you an AIDS diagnosis. It's because your body can't fight anything anymore. So what happens is, then you've got an AIDS, Um, maybe have an AIDS diagnosis. And for me it was in 98 and I went to the doctors and there happened to be medication. My, you know, I think my lucky stars there was. So I started taking medication, and six months later, I'm just living with HIV. Now I haven't got AIDS anymore. I only had AIDS for about a six month period of my life, but because the drugs that I took and managed to fight off all the opportunist small infections that I had and pick my immune system up, I then came out of an AIDS diagnosis. And for the next 10 years, I've just been living with HIV. So today in today's world, actually, we're almost entering an era where there should be. We should be not actually getting a DS and really, an AIDS diagnosis means that someone's lived too long with the virus without getting diagnosed, so their their first diagnosis is an aid diagnosis. And then what we'll do is they'll go on medication and then they'll just come be coming back to being HIV positive again. So that's sort of the difference between HIV and A. I DS, um I think that it's still a horrible thing to live with, whether it's full blown AIDS or HIV. And now I am on a twice a day, um, pill taking regime that I have to adhere to 95% of the time. Otherwise, the virus will mutate and become, um, resistant to the the pills that I'm taking and so that that's quite a a lifestyle thing that you have to take on board. Um, around HIV I could go on for ages, but actually, is there any other questions here? Um, I think I've summed up the questions. So has anyone else got something they'd like further to know around HIV? I just kind of, um, would like to know So, um, when you're on this medication, um, how so does it? Pretty much, um means that the virus is at such a low level that it's not affecting you like I mean, not in any way. That's that's absolutely true. It just doesn't really affect me. I mean, I have to say We don't know what the long term effect of the pills are. We don't know what the long term effect of of living with HIV. Um, there's not many people who have lived with it for 25 years and are still here, So actually, there's a There's a whole lot of stuff we still don't know. Um, there's been articles around kicking your immune system and so young in life. What's the long term effects of that? Um, I think there isn't any stats, but I know from anecdotally from friends, there seems to be higher rates of things like diabetes, heart problems. And I think a lot of that is the medication is quite toxic. And we say we don't know what the long term effects of of the medication is. No problem. What are a couple of the biggest myths you hear about the biggest myths? Um, yeah, well, I mean, the sad thing is that I think that outside of this world, um, the fact that, um, how you catch HIV is still very much a horrible myth out there. People are still incredibly wary. I think if there's people who who don't have all the information, they'd still be a bit paranoid about drinking out the same cup of me or kissing. Or I think those things are Miss that, aren't there? What about others with miss? Yeah, definitely. The kissing thing is like, you definitely cannot get it from kissing. I kiss Carl a lot. It doesn't happen. And, um yeah, I, I don't know. And I think there's sort of, Well, maybe the one about, you know, like, kind of I think, you know, because it is so managed these days that people think, actually, sometimes I think people think it's hard, quite hard to get. It's harder to get than it is, You know what I mean? And it's kind of gone away in some way. And also, I think the other big myth is it's no big deal. You take a pill a day. It's no different from being a diabetic. Um, I think that's a huge myth out there that actually needs to be well squashed because it isn't. It just can't be compared to anything like that, and it still is a big deal, and I think when people get a diagnosis, even if they know that with medication, and they're going to live a pretty reasonable life. It's still incredibly devastating to people to find out that they are HIV positive. And it's often really pain hard around forming relationships with with being positive. It really causes problems there. Makes it difficult. Should I say, can you, um, let people know about how I'm getting tested and, um, good on? Yes. Keep yourself tested. It's a really good thing. I think knowing early works is the is the answer for me, it was better to deal with it at the beginning and be aware of it right the way through than just get it, then. Just waiting till I really was sick and you can get it. Foundation. They'll do rapid testing at NZ a centres around the country over the back here. Um so have you encountered like people shooting it differently? Um, no. Well, I don't know. Yes, of course I have. And I think the saddest thing I was when I was early diagnosed um, I had real problems with disclosure. I found it really hard to tell someone that I was just meeting that I had HIV. It was like, almost you're saying I want to have a relationship with this person, so I need to tell them straight away. And actually, you might have met them a couple of times and then gone. Oh, I really quite like you. And so you told them. And I've had quite a few people walk away at that point because they are like, Oh, no, you should. And I've had people actually get angry with me and told me You should have told me before we even had sex And nowadays I do. But when you're first diagnosed, disclosure is incredibly difficult. And it's a really hard thing to do. And especially if you meet someone out and you're having a good time, you know you're gonna ruin the moment by by by telling them that. So, yeah, that's that's probably the most the one, the one that hurts the most other people. I really don't care, because if they if they have a problem with it well, I I'd rather they didn't make the effort in making friendships. OK? Oh, I was just going to ask, Why do you think, say, at high school six it we get taught all the STD S or the STIs. And then when it comes to HIV AIDS, I don't remember anything. I remember the name I don't I never actually knew what it was until I went away and did my own research when I was, like, 18. Um, that's sad, really, isn't it? I mean, it is just especially in the 21st century. I mean, you think that in basic sex education they would talk about HIV? Maybe they I mean, did they talk about anything gay, or was that sort of almost like we only talk about the mainstream stuff? I'm not sure. Um yeah. Going in terms of prevalence rates, is it, um, is a i DS are the are the levels of, um, AIDS and HIV going down? No, they're not. They're going up. And the reason being is that, um well, one of the reasons through the eighties and nineties, I think people were getting infected as fast as they were as they were dying. There seemed to be a cycle of it, and there was so much death. But then, once the new medications came in, the death rates completely stopped. But the infection rates seem to still be going up and part of its actual mathematics. They say 2% of those who who are positive reinfect that 2% is just getting bigger and bigger as the pool of people increase every year. And so and there is and we're keeping everyone alive and healthy. So unfortunately that we're doing pretty well in New Zealand, Um, other countries are doing, you know, comparatively we're doing well, but the numbers are still increasing. Yeah, I think those numbers are also maybe increasing because there's a lot more awareness around it as well. So more people are actually getting there. Be loads of people that have been living with it, and they've never, ever had a test. They say there's another third on top of those that know who don't know who are. Yeah, they just don't know. Um, is it contracted only with gay couples? Um, no, it's definitely it's heterosexual. It's it's It's sex. It's passed on through semen and blood. So sharing a needle is a is another way of contracting HIV. But no, it's, um and I think, why the emphasis is on gay community because it's a numbers game in the gay community. It's considered an epidemic where in the straight community those numbers haven't got so high that it's considered an epidemic. But it's still it is definitely in the heterosexual community. That depends where you live. In some other countries in South Africa, it's not considered a gay disease. It's just rife throughout the whole community. Um, my question was kind of, um, similar. Like around that. So with with the, um, kind of percentages that we're looking at, uh, are we looking at still, um, like comparably a much higher rate of, um, say, um, men who have sex with men? Um um contracting HIV compared to straight people? Or is it is it kind of has that changing at all? Um, it's No, it's it's staying relatively similar, and the numbers are sort of there's slightly higher, even just on numbers of gay men. I think there's something like 100 and 20 a year, and we're looking at 70 in the gay community and the others dispersed between heterosexual white, African and, um, IV drug users. And isn't it true that the biggest growth is in, um, heterosexual women? The numbers are growing bigger in that group, and the numbers are smaller, but the growth is bigger. Yeah, OK, thank you. Ok, um where can I get free? Um, prop prophylactics or condoms to your left. OK, so but outside of here, where can you get condoms for free? So any you people will know, I'm sure. So, um yeah. Sexual health clinics. Absolutely. I think there's some sort of app, and I've seen it before, and it just shows you where you can get all the free condoms that Ah, that would be right. Yes. Is that the same? Um I mean, um, with other, um, safe things like, um, dental dams and gloves and things like that, are they? That would be the cheapest place to get them. Absolutely. Which is not super cheap. But you can order them all over the country that way. Um, there's a website and everything that you can go on and like, um, it's an anonymous website, and you just write in, like, a name or something, and they just send you like a brown package that just has a whole tonne of problems in it. Not use it to see my friends, condoms and love. Your condom does that on their website, too. If you go to LYC website and hit the button, they'll they'll post them out to you. Um, you can also get free condoms from your local needle exchange. Yes, you can. OK, I'll just have to put my glasses on now. Hm. OK, this is one. Maybe for Tabby or for you guys. Actually, why do you feel it is important to have this workshop? So te te asked us. I think these workshops are always good because it's just about passing on information so that, actually, you guys can then pass on information to your networks. And, um, that's that's how that's the best way of getting messages out. There is word of mouth II. I still say that. Yeah, Um, just on that, I think it's really important that we have this workshop because, um, speaking for myself, and I know a lot of people, um, sex education, in schools and from other sources really don't cover properly. Um, the kind of like information that, um, our community needs, um the like, the specific stuff. And it's actually I think it's really important. Um, because you can't just, um, not educate people and assume that they are gonna just be able to educate themselves or that that information is going to be available. And it's just really, actually really hard to come by. Um, yeah, I'm very passionate about this. It's really good if you're not necessarily out. So you don't want to put up your hand and make the teacher like I need to know this This and this I am. It's really such a great point. Yeah, I also like I've noticed that quite a few of the people here are a lot younger than, like quite so many old old might have been when they first came out or whatever. So they're going to be in an age group where they're actually starting to get taught this at school. And so by having this workshop, and it does come to, they are, if they are books about whatever, um, they'll actually have the knowledge to do it safely and, like, maybe some didn't quite know, because they I think it's really important that, um, we have workshops like this. And then we also have classes within schools because, um, I come from a sexual health organisation. We do, um, six year classes in school because the art teachers can't do it themselves. No shade. Um, Also because, um, a lot of what our young people are learning about sexuality and sex are through their friends. They're not from teachers, they're not from these classes. So, um, these workshops and these classes are really important to eliminate the what they've put in the playground and actually give them the facts. And also, I think some parents and teachers think that because we teach them about contraception, that we're encouraging them to have sex when really, we're just giving them the tools. Like someone said that if they want to in the future, they can, Yeah, And the link on to that is like we're we're Children of the Internet. We have been brought up with the Internet, So it's not really It's like, if we don't know something we're not going to, like, look up an almanack. What the hell it is we're going to be like, we're gonna go and find out for ourselves because not only Children, but we're independent as well. I think it's like a rising thing is that if we don't know, we're gonna ask the Internet and the Internet is full of Well, there are some. Excellent. Ok, I just love this next question. I think standing here waiting to read this one out. So how? Oh, this is so good. How do I tell my partner how comfortable I am with sexual stuff? Great question, huh? Yeah. So what do you got? What what? What do you people think about this one? So how do you tell someone how comfortable you are with sexual stuff? Yeah, I think with regards to relationships being open and having that communication is the most important thing. And if you can't, if you don't feel comfortable telling your partner that that you are or aren't comfortable with something that kind of that that feels like a weakness in your relationship, to be honest, what if you're sleeping with someone? OK, thank you. Yes. If you're close enough with your partner that you're considering something sexual, then you should just be able to say straight up what you want and what you don't want. OK? Yeah. So we just just point out what if you are only just sleeping with someone and it's not a relationship? Ah, ok. Yeah. So in that instance, How do you get comfortable in kind of saying what you're comfortable with and where your boundaries are? You know, if it's not necessarily AAA relationship, you know, you just sort of it's more casual. So, I, I have, um, a question like, I've heard you can do this. Like, what do you think about it? And so, like, yeah, toads came and you, like, sweet. So am I. Um, but if they're like, oh, I don't know, it's kind of weird. They'd be like, Oh, we could talk about it or just, like, drop it. There's no point being like I want this now. And they've been like, Oh, my goodness, I couldn't handle that. It's really in my boundaries. Like like no. And then you've just made them uncomfortable. You're uncomfortable. You don't know what to do. Yeah. Yes. If you're in a relationship with somebody, like a long term dating relationship or whatever, Um, you're gonna talk about that stuff, do it when it's not in the sexual environment. It's a lot easier to have that conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's great. Oh, sorry. I think that was pretty much it, but yeah, I feel like if you're in a relationship with someone that, um maybe if there's things that they're asking that you're not comfortable with, maybe you're not ready to go there yet. And that even, maybe just with sex, especially if it's a serious relationship. And I think if it is a serious relationship, they'll respect your views anyway. And then they'll wait until you're comfortable or if you're not, you can just be like, No, it shouldn't be a make it or break it, But so it's kind of telling you something about where you're at. And I guess also, if it's casual, then just tell them because you know it's casual. If not, it's better to be safe with what you you like. There's plenty more people. If it's casual, I mean, not that, But, you know, just like you know, if if it is casual, then you should be able to say I like it And they said, No, you're like, Thanks. Thank you. Um oh, my friends actually heard like something like that and everything and what they did was they sort of sat down and they just, like, talked and both said what? Um what each other was, like, interested in and what they were uncomfortable with. And then they pretty much just you can chose which ones they could tolerate and made, like their own agreements about it. They pretty much just made a business deal with each other. Can I just add something to that as well That there are actually these kind of, like, somewhat geeky kind of sex communication websites out there, which have, like, premade lists of like, here are all the different things someone might think of doing sexually. And you tip like, yes, no. Or maybe so you don't have to say like, Oh, this Oh, do you want to do this thing right here on the list? You can be like, Oh, it was just on the list in the first place. Like it wasn't my idea. But are you interested in that? Maybe I am, too. Um, I've been forgetting to pass. I just really like I was gonna say, it's kind of following on from what, um, Morgan said, um, that because I feel like we don't We really don't get taught how to have these conversations and around consent and things like that. Very Well, um, and I feel like if you're feeling a bit nervous about it, like a good way is to be like instead of being like I like this blah, blah, blah it to be like, what do you like? And to kind of open the conversation up to give them a way to come to you and share it, And then it kind of becomes reciprocal. And it's like if you start that, if you're not just like, this is what I like. I don't like this. Like opening that conversation up by asking them is really important. And if you feel comfortable to do that, it's a really, like, really awesome thing to be like to do for both of you. Yeah, great. Thank you. Yes, I think also being able to give people permission and space to say no or that they're not sure. Not sure it's a really big one. And being able to check in in that in that kind of case, um, also, I guess, making assumptions about what sex is so like, Obviously assumption in terms of men who have sex with men that Oh, you know, you hear a lot of people like, Oh, what do you do? You do, like, have anal sex or whatever, and that's just like everybody's understanding of a norm who is generally straight right. And they have this idea of sex. And I think there's also ideas about what sex between women or sex between. OK, not many people have ideas about what sex between non binary people looks like because not many people know about non binary people, but kind of being aware that sex looks different, Actually, and what feels good is different to everybody. And that's OK. And it's normal and, um and yeah, and also being able to have a conversation that it's just about, Yeah, I think it's given permission. So if you're saying actually, no, I'm not really into that, but we don't take it personally about each other. It's not a rejection. If somebody's like, I don't like it when you touch me there or I really don't want to do that sexual act. It's just that it's not right for that person. And we don't have to take that as a as a personal rejection. It's great. Thank you. Yes. Um, you got the microphone. Oh, sure. Why not like, um, one example I have is, like, when you like, sort of a casual stuff, or even if you're in a relationship, Um, And like the gay community, one of the big questions you have to ask is Are you a top or are you a bottom? Because that's sort of like the one thing that you either get asked or asked to please in a comfortable situation. Otherwise, you could end up being in the bedroom and all of a sudden end up in this awkward situation where you're like, Well, who's going to do what now? And you don't really want that. And so yeah, and that's and so it's like that Prem communication, um, stance to it. So yeah, right. Thank you. All right, OK, next question. Binding help. So who can help us with this one? I? I don't need that. I gave. I don't need that. But what What? Where do I start? It's such a Basically the best way to bind is with a binder. If you can't afford a binder, there are things like sky thing. Very trans trans gear. Um, I'm not exactly sure of the whole details of that um, but also, you can use, uh, layer sports bras as another safe way to bind. Never use, uh, bandages or, uh, duct tape or anything that's not flexible, because you will mess up your breathing and you will mess up your ribs and it will hurt. Like, um, also another thing. I'm really guilty of doing this myself. But don't wear your binder for more than eight hours at a time. Don't wear it overnight. I know that having boobs really sucks sometimes. But messing your boobs up enough that you're not gonna be able to get top surgery one day would suck even more. Thank you. I just wanted to say like duct taping really hurts. Don't do that. Yeah, no, no duct tape, No bandages. Just Just OK. Downtown. Yeah, it's a week, right? Oh, right. So sometimes binders aren't accessible. So what can you do about it? Talk to me. I actually set up an organisation to do this fruit blenders into the country because they're ridiculously expensive to source. And no one in New Zealand actually makes them so. I got in contact with little big comment overseas and asked, What can I do to bring her into the country. So I'm now, as far as I'm aware, the only person in New Zealand who actually has a large quantity of them, and by and large, I mean over 200 at the moment. Um, there's several different sorts. Um, I don't even know when it's not. OK, so is this one of the most common ones that people wear? It's really small. Or is it small? Um, that it's This is the most common one that comes out there. Uh, it's got two compression layers. 033 in the front and one in the back. Um, so it kind of it squashes everything around. Um, you can get these in a full length as well, Like literally past Where busy. So long. Sometimes. Um, like this one. This is a really old ancient one that's kind of died. Um, but yeah, they eventually do stretch out and become pretty useless. Um, they're really tight to wear. Like you can't actually comfortably breathe most of the time, and you've got a brand new one on they do stretch out. Um, I don't in, uh, encourage people to do physical exercise with them because you know you're literally constructing your lungs wearing one. Yeah, basically, I sell them at the price that I ate. For how much is that? It varies. The cheaper ones. Uh, $10. The more expensive ones that I've got at the moment are about 50 of the one in the shop. Uh, the smaller ones we bring in the Asian side, so they're literally made for really quite small people. Um, I've got them up to a four XL. So that's, I think, about 100 and 50 centimetre chest. Um, and if you're outside of those, we can get a lot more business card on the table on this. Yeah, it just comes in a little white postage bag. OK, so we've gone well over our time, So we're just going to, um we've sort of been through the questions, and Tabby's taken some that that, um, other people will be able to answer. And we're going to quickly kind of just go through some of the the questions that have got a more clinical aspect, and we'll answer those for you. And Carl is going to sneak off. So thank you very much. Carl, I think, um, OK, So, uh, so this one I'm going to hand over to Rose. So can trans guys get pregnant from someone? If so, uh, from someone with a Penis, have he is on T and periods have stopped. I don't really know, but but But what I was gonna say is, in any situation where there are sperm and a cervix, you know, someone can get pregnant, you can never say it won't happen. And this happens even, you know, with people who are heterosexual, there are assumptions that you can't get pregnant for all sorts of reasons, and you can never make that assumption. So you've always got to treat it as if it could happen unless there's some absolutely definite word from somebody who knows some clinical person who knows that the the way things are in your body, that it can't happen. And the next question, which is so can I get if I use a towel with semen on it? Probably not. It depends what you do with the towel, right? Yeah. You can probably use a towel to try and get. You know, if you want to do it that way, you could have a go it probably wouldn't work very well, but, you know, it all comes down to Does the sperm get into the right place? Yeah. You if you're not having anal sex but doing other sexual stuff, what are the risks? And I'm and I'm gonna I'm gonna assume we mean the ST I risks here. So, um, Mara, would you like to, um so buy other stuff That could mean a whole range of things. Um, that could be talking about oral sex of any variety that could be talking about, um, touching each other's genitals. So for SDIS, the risks really have to do with either skin to skin contact. Um, and usually that's genital skin. So not so much kind of someone's hand to someone's genitals. Not really any risk there, but skin to skin contact of genitals or if any fluids have been exchanged. And that can include, um, semen or vaginal fluids going from somebody's body to somebody's mouth as well. So in those cases, there are risks for STIs. Um, they can be a little bit lower than other types of sex, but they still exist. Um, and that would be for skin to skin contact around things like herpes and genital warts. And also chlamydia and gonorrhoea can be passed in non penetrative ways as well. Um, anything you want to add to that, Rose? No, I think you're pretty well covered. Just and last, but certainly not least sex toys. So, um, and how to use them So we don't have enough time. And there's loads of different loads of different sex toys and loads of different ways to use them. And maybe that would be something you want to talk about after dinner. Um, but I would just like to say, Well, a point that I would just like to make about sex toys is that actually, if you're using them with multiple partners, there is a risk of transmitting STIs so that they are like a body part. So, you know, you you can use condoms on them and just make sure you give them a good clean. Ok, thank you all very much for having us. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Africa ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Carl Greenwood ; David ; Family Planning ; FtM ; HIV / AIDS ; InsideOUT Kōaro ; Iran ; Job ; Love Your Condom ; Margaret Sparrow ; NZPC: Aotearoa New Zealand Sex Workers' Collective ; New Zealand AIDS Foundation (NZAF) ; New Zealand Needle Exchange Programme ; People ; STI ; Shift hui ; Shift hui (2015) ; South Africa ; Space ; Stuff ; Tapu te Ranga Marae ; Victoria Street ; Wellington ; Youth ; abuse ; advice ; agenda ; anal sex ; assumptions ; attitude ; attraction ; binary ; binding ; bisexual ; blood ; board ; books ; bottom ; boundaries ; cancer ; chlamydia ; collective ; coming out ; communication ; community ; condoms ; conversation ; dating ; death ; difference ; disclosure ; discrimination ; drugs ; education ; emotional ; energy ; environment ; epidemic ; exercise ; face ; family ; food ; friends ; future ; gay ; gender ; gender identity ; gonorrhea ; health ; health education ; hell ; heterosexual ; history ; hit ; homosexual ; hui ; identity ; internet ; kissing ; knowledge ; law ; lifestyle ; love ; mainstream ; medications ; myth ; needle exchange programme ; news ; non-binary ; normal ; other ; pansexual ; pants ; parents ; passing ; photography ; politics ; polyamory ; polysexual ; pregnancy ; queer ; queer straight alliance (QSA) ; rejection ; relationships ; religion ; research ; respect ; running ; rural ; sad ; safe sex ; school ; school counselor ; seroconversion ; sex ; sex education ; sex toys ; sexual health ; sexuality ; social media ; stigma ; straight ; strength ; support ; surgery ; testing ; testosterone (T) ; time ; top ; top surgery ; trans ; transgender ; treat ; understanding ; voice ; website ; wisdom ; women ; work ; workshop ; writing ; youth ; youth group. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/shift_hui_2015_sexuality_and_gender_workshop.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089651. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.