The title of this recording is "Rainbow history - Shift hui (2018)". It is described as: An exploration of some of the fascinating stories from the histories of our queer communities. It was recorded in Te Horouta Marae, Whitford Brown Avenue, Papakōwhai, Porirua on the 20th April 2018. This is a recording of an event and features the voices of Aliyah Winter, Lee Eklund and Max Tweedie. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 36 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the event. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: An exploration of some of the fascinating stories from the histories of our queer communities - focusing on trans history in Wellington and the history of HIV AIDS in New Zealand. Speakers include Aliyah Winter, Lee Eklund and Max Tweedie. A special thank you to the participants and InsideOUT for allowing this session to be recorded and shared. The content in the recording covers the decades 1960s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: The recording titled "Rainbow history - Shift hui (2018)" is an insightful exploration into the queer communities' histories, with a focus on trans history in Wellington and the evolution of HIV/AIDS in New Zealand. Recorded at Te Horouta Marae in Papakōwhai, Porirua, the 36-minute audio features Aliyah Winter, Lee Eklund, and Max Tweedie sharing their insights and experiences. Aliyah Winter opens the discussion with an overview of significant figures in Wellington's trans and intersex community. The speaker highlights the groundbreaking political achievements of Georgina Beyer, the first trans person elected to parliament globally. Winter delves into Beyer's earlier life, involvement in the Wellington gay nightclub scene and efforts towards decriminalizing prostitution. Winter additionally discusses the contributions of Mani Bruce Mitchell, an active advocate for intersex and gender variance since 1996. Mitchell's work in education and advocacy, through conferences, media, and the establishment of the Intersex Trust Aotearoa New Zealand, is underlined. The event also pays homage to the late Donna De Milo, a relentless advocate for the trans community and HIV/AIDS prevention, and Carmen Rupe, a business owner and LGBT rights activist whose life story encompasses periods of persecution, resilience, and advocacy for sexual health and rights. During the event, the history of HIV/AIDS in New Zealand and the consequent legislative changes are also contextualized. The AIDS Foundation’s role in advocating for gay men's health in light of the epidemic becomes a focal point, reflecting on the significance of the law reform in 1986 that decriminalized consensual male homosexual activities, thereby allowing more individuals to seek treatment and help control the spread of HIV. Additionally, the session touches upon pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP) detailing its role, accessibility, and impact on HIV prevention, as well as discussing stigmas around its usage. Max Tweedie, who shares their personal journey with PrEP, outlines the importance of individual choice in sexual health measures. Discussions include the undetectable viral load (U=U) campaign, which has significantly changed the narrative around HIV transmission, particularly for those on sustained treatment who reach an undetectable status. The event emphasizes the importance of community support and awareness in combatting discrimination and stigma while promoting sexual health and respect for individual choices. The recording ends with an encouragement to dialogue and understanding, inviting questions and personal inquiries about the varied experiences within the queer community. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Um, everyone. Um my name is Max, and I see her pronouns and I work for the New Zealand AIDS Foundation. My name's AA. She her pronouns, And I'm I'm just here in this panel to talk to you about. We're also waiting for the wonderful Lee, who for some reason, has disappeared, um, and was going to lead the history part. Um, but I guess, um, I yeah, I don't know. What do you want to start? I'm gonna talk a little bit about trans history in Wellington and some of the people that, um trans and intersex history and some of the people that sort of paved the way for that. So some of this information might be familiar to you, but I just thought I would, you know, kind of give a a brief overview of this kind of stuff. So does anyone know Georgina Baer? Yeah, everyone's heard of her. So Georgina, by, um, she was actually born in. And, um, which is a suburb in Wellington. Um, she was, um, a trans woman. And she was actually the first, um, trans person to be elected to parliament in the world. So that's a really awesome thing because that she was the first, you know, And a lot of people kind of don't always know about that. Um, so by, uh, um, she became a part of the Wellington gay nightclub scene initially as a singer and a drag queen and performer and later as a sex worker as well, which was a big part of her work. So she did a lot of work towards, um, decriminalising prostitution as well. Um, and she also when she was elected to parliament, she was living in the in this place called, which is sort of quite a, um has a reputation for being quite a small place. I mean, yeah, it's sort of like further in India, in the middle of the North Island. Um, and weirdly enough, she also worked on Paul Henry's radio station. Um, which is just funny. Um, yeah, that's basically what I wanted to say about her. She was in this really great film as well called Jill's doll, which was sort of revolutionary for its time. I think it was made in the early eighties, and you can watch it on NZ on screen. Um, and it's a great film about the relationship between a drag queen and a trans woman, and Georgina plays a Trans woman in the film. Um, I also wanted to talk about Marie Mitchell. Does anyone know who money is? Yeah, that's really cool. Um, so since, um, 1996 Marie Mitchell has been actively involved in education on intersex and gender variance issues. So they've done a lot of work for intersex people, but also for trans people as well. Attending, um, conferences and advocating for, um, health, lecturing at universities, running workshops around the world and TV documentaries, a film and a photography book. So there's a really great, um, documentary about money's work called Intersection about their life as well. Um, and there's a There's a lot of, um, kind of stuff online about money that is really good to look at. Um and yeah, man. Also set up, um, the Intersex Trust of a New Zealand, um, which was sort of one of the first, um, organisations of its kind in the world as well, specifically for intersex people. Um, which is really awesome. And that's awesome to have someone like that who's still very active in the the Wellington Queer community and in the international intersex community as well. Um, yeah. Another person I wanted to talk about is Donna De Milo. Does anyone know who she is? Was she recently passed away this year? Um, so she was a, um a local trans woman in Wellington. And at the time that she was sort of coming of age was in the, um, early 19 sixties, she moved from Auckland to Wellington, and at that time it was still illegal to be, um, you know, a member of the opposite sex wearing clothing of the opposite gender. Um, so this was a time where lots of trans people were being thrown in jail just for wearing the clothes they wanted to wear. Um, and she's been She was a relentless advocate for the trans community, Um, and was also involved in a lot of HIV and AIDS prevention work, Um, and worked for the Maori Women's Welfare League as well. Um, yeah, and she just she left such a big imprint on the community. And now there is a shop named after her. So there's an organisation called gender minorities. Um, and they're based out of, um, a place in Wellington. And they have an op shop where all the funds from the op shop go towards, um, go towards the organisation and the op shop is named Auntie Op Shop. Um, yeah. I also wanted to talk about Carmen. Does anyone know Carmen? Yes. She's pretty awesome. Um, so she was a a businesswoman, a brothel keeper, LGBT rights and HIV AIDS activist. Um, and she's really well known here and also in Australia. She spent a lot of time in Sydney, and that sort of she lived a lot of her life there as well. She was born in, which is sort of a small town, further up north. Um, and she was conscripted into the military in 1955 training as a nurse. And in the same year, she did an impression of Eartha Kitt, who was an old, tiny TV star. Um, and this was a performance to all of her kind of comrades in the Army, and they gave her a standing ovation the first time she ever did it. And that basically was an indication to her that she a loved performing and B, um, sort of the beginning of her. Um trans journey as well. Um, And then two years later, she moved to Kings Cross in Sydney, where she, um, started transitioning. Um, there's a quote from her here. As soon as I heard about drag shows opening there, I said, Bye bye. Men's clothes. I never put anything on since never any. Any men's clothes, she means, um, yeah, and equally at this time, police were very, very against trans people, and Carmen was arrested and beaten several times in the fifties and sixties. Um, there's another quote from her here. The police were very, very heavy. They hated gay people. They hated drag queens and they hated lesbians. They used to take us into the police station and give us a hiding and beat us up. I was locked in Long Bay Prison about a dozen times, but it made me a stronger person today. Um, in 1968 she moved to Wellington. She was a bit done with the kind of difficulty of living in Sydney, and she opened up a coffee bar, which was also a brothel, and with some inheritance that she had from her grandfather, and she named it Carmen's International Coffee Lounge. And it was a famous local hangout for, um, the queer community, basically, and particularly a haven for trans women. Um, and there's sort of an interesting story that goes along with the coffee lounge, which is that people who lots of people were there just to socialise and have coffee and eat some food and kind of hang out. And then, um, some people were there for to access the, uh, sex working services as well. And people who wanted to indicate that would, um, order a drink and leave their cup in a certain way. Um, so there was there was sort of a language there of like if they wanted some services, they would leave their cup. It would be, but it would be pretty strange. It was things like tipping your cup on its side or putting a plate on top of your cup and things like they were quite specific, sort of sort of things. And it was generally known who the clients were coming into this kind of place. And that was really just a rule to get around the fact that, um, sex work was illegal at that time. Um, yeah. And in 1977. She ran for mayor of Wellington. Um, she was, unfortunately, unsuccessful. But she had a really great campaign and actually kind of drummed up a lot of support. Um, she supported gay marriage. Uh, yeah, she legalised prostitution. She advocated for sex education in schools, nude beaches and towards decriminalising abortion. Um, yeah. And all of those proposed reforms that she was part of proposing are now legal in New Zealand. Um, yeah. And also, if you are in Wellington around the Cuba street area, um, they have changed the green man on the walking lights to a silhouette of Carmen, which is pretty cool. So that's something to look out for. And that's all I have to say. Thank you. Um, yeah. With with cars, traffic lights. So it makes me laugh because she's the green lady. It should have been the Red Lady because, you know, you put a red light on, and that's what she used to do back in the day. Was, um yeah, so her being green, I think she would be. She would have preferred to be honest. Um, but, uh uh, Donna, um, going back to Donna, Donna was a very good friend of mine. And, um, the stories that she she's told people about back in the day was just horrific. Um, like you said about the police towards Carmen as well as it wasn't just it was all the girls. And the way that the police used to treat those as well as gay people was just shocking. Um, but I do know that it was the gay community that was probably hiding behind the trans community and the trans community were a lot stronger and could handle a lot more confrontation in the gay community. So they were in the front pretty much taking a lot more than we did for sure. Um, but unfortunately, she did pass away this year. Um, very quickly. Um, within four months of being diagnosed with cancer, she passed away, which was I. I still can't believe it. To be honest, I still can't believe she's gone, but, um, she's definitely still around. I have to say with that big smile and those big teeth. Bless her. Um, So look, I'm gonna talk about, um uh, the history that I'll talk about, um because I work for the New Zealand AIDS foundation. Uh, I'm a sexual health promoter, and this is Max who works alongside us as well. So what's your role, Love? Um, so my role is so I'm based up in Auckland, Um, in volunteer events, Um, but also youth and the community engagement team, which is pretty awesome. Cool. And he's a lot younger than me. If you could tell him it's the morning. Don't start. So, um, so, um, the reason why I I'm gonna, um, talk about, um, the AIDS just briefly the AIDS epidemic. Because it's a huge part of my work and also, um, men who have sex with men. Um, because this all interlinks with the law reform. So, um, no one really knows when the aid effort. Well, when when it first started. But the first case was in San Francisco in 1981 and they didn't know what it was, and there was it was predominantly guys that were getting really sick, and also there was no cure, and they were dying. So, um, so as you can imagine, it was absolutely freaking everybody out. And, um, and for many of upset with men knowing that men were the ones that were getting more infected was was quite horrific. And then it started where people were dying because there was no cure for it. There was no medication or anything. Um, and that basically led to, um, What do we do here? You know, we need to start acting on this. And there was a There was a group called Act Up That was in, um, that was in America that, uh, were protesting for medication for better research because no one was doing anything at all. Um, so getting back to, uh, New Zealand. Um, so before 1986 it was illegal not to be gay, but to have sex. So work that out. So you can be gay, but you can't have sex. How boring is that? What's the? Well, you know, I mean, if if you don't, if you don't have set, that's fine. But majority of people you know probably do so so something needed to be changed. So obviously the AIDS epidemic was happening. And how are we? How are they gonna control this when it's illegal to be? It wasn't. It wasn't really. For women having sex with women, it was based mainly for men who have sex with men. Um, so how can we sort this epidemic out? Because no man is going to go to a doctor to get tested, to see if they're positive or not, because it was illegal. So this is what was a huge part of the law reform, so that if it's legal to obsess, then people are going to come forward and start testing, and that's exactly what happened. So with the law reform, um, it wasn't just gay men that was protesting or lobbying. It was everybody. It was straight. It was by It was Trans. It was lesbian. It was everybody. And it made a huge difference. And obviously, the bill passed in 1986. And that's when the, um, New Zealand AIDS Foundation was founded. Um, so skipping forward a few years to the early nineties when I knew I was gay from a a very young age, probably younger, to be honest and II, I just, like, wear my shoes as well. So, um, she used to get mad at me. I used to scuff the heels, but, you know, pick your feet up late. Um, So, um, I knew from a very young age and I can remember being, um it was on the TV that there was a an advert and it was the Grim Reaper that was chiselling aids into a tomb stone. And it's it it said it in a really dark, you know, like you get those scary movies and they're doing a premiere and you've got that really scary dark voice. They did it in that And I can remember seeing and from I can remember seeing it. And I can remember from a very young age knowing what I was and it absolutely petrified me because I was like, How am I going to be what I am when you know when everybody is dying around me? So, um, through this AIDS epidemic, it actually stopped me from being coming out as a gay man. And I don't think you can blame it, Really, to be honest, because obviously everybody's dying. Um, it was a it was a big fight, because you are. I think that I'm not going to be way the only one in this room, but I think we've all sooner or like we've all fought and felt as though that we're not really normal. And you you fight what you are to fit into society, which I did. Um, so that was one of the reasons why the I stopped coming out was because of the AIDS epidemic. Um, and so moving on to that, obviously, the medication has got a lot better. And now that people are taking medication, that no one is dying anymore, so it is actually liable you can live a long, healthy life with the medication that's out there. Where? Back in the day, um, people that were living with HIV and on medication were taking 16 tablets a day. And, you know, they were so toxic that you know that there's a lot of people now that are living with HIV that are having a few health problems because of the toxic medication. Um, and what it is now is completely and utterly different. Um, actually, I'm gonna get back to, uh it was a family planning yesterday that somebody asked a question about prep, didn't they? And they said to come to, um, the New Zealand to to come to the aid the AIDS Foundation. I mean, if you run the AIDS Foundation to find out information where you can get it, then that that that's the right the right thing to do. But we don't prescribe it. We, um, a doctor can prescribe it. As a matter of fact, anybody, anybody here from Wellington knows evolved. So there's two doctors that evolve are prescribing. And as far as I know that what's the is the is the age limit? Or is it? If you've got consent from your parents to take this medication, then they can prescribe it to you if you don't use condoms. If you do, you're fine. Carry on using condoms because it's gonna stop STIs. But it's not gonna stop HIV infections. And once that you are infected with HIV, you will be on medication for the rest of your life. It's not a death sentence. Remember that it's a lifestyle change, and there's one thing that we say that when people do get tested, we do turn around Well, they say No news is good news, which I don't like at all. It's not bad news. If we ring you and say that you are positive, it's just a lifestyle change, you know, and a lot of people that are living with HIV these days are probably more healthier than people that are negative because they go and get regular check ups by the doctor. And, uh, yeah, and it's they are a lot more healthier. Um, and even if you're on prep, um, can I can I hand it over to you? Because, of course, because Max here is a prep user. Has anybody met anybody that's been taking prep before? Of course you have love. Um, So, um, I'm gonna I'll hand it over to you for your experience. Really? And because he's he's quite because you're quite you're very young. Aren't you? Jealous? Really. Don't get old. Um yeah. So I, I think it is quite interesting, because for me that when I started finding out about prep, this was incredibly revolutionary, that there was another way that we could actually prevent, um, HIV transmissions. Um, that which didn't involve condoms, and I think to to be able to get be there from, you know, from 1984 when the AIDS Foundation was founded to where we are now, which is only about roughly about 30 years later to have a different um, prevention method that actually sits alongside, um, condoms, I think is really amazing, I think one because we've been drilled the condom message for, like, since, you know, we're growing up it. It's kind of like the, um the the message that we got in in health class in high school, and that was kind of about it that was relevant to our health and sexual health. So I think, um, yeah, having this this pill, this one pill a day tool is incredible in terms of HIV prevention. So what it is is prep. Um, it kind of it stands for pre exposure prophylaxis. And essentially what it is is it's an It was an It's originally a medication that people living with HIV took to suppress the amount of, um, to suppress the viral load that they had, um, inside their bodies. And And I think one day they just thought, What if this could actually be used to prevent HIV from, um, being able to kind of get into your viral system and, um, and start that? So they tested it and and they were right. It could. So that's kind of how it began. So it's It's not a new medication, um, from the sense of a treatment, but the actual from the prevention side, Um, it is so it's recently been funded by pharmac, which means it's accessible for people, Um, that are at high risk of contracting HIV. Um, and that high risk category is is really an interesting one. Um, because it's something that doctors will, um, check specifically, um, it can be particularly uncomfortable. Uh, I think because the PHARMAC guidelines haven't quite caught up with where kind of our community is at especially around, um, gender and sexual identities. But in general, the PHARMAC guidelines are for, um, for gay and bisexual identifying, um, guys and also for trans people. So that's trans people in general. That's trans women. That's trans men. Um, so I think if you for self identifying people as kind of masculine, um, then that's you're able to access that if you're also having, um, sex, um, with, um, people that also identify as masculine and and that, um, and identify as gay or bisexual in that sexuality space. Um, and you have to kind of, I think, and for me, why I'm on prep is because you can't. So to get on prep, you have to have had instances of, um, condom less sex in the past and kind of potential for the future. Um, and I'm going to be quite frank here. Condoms, like, aren't my favourite thing in the world. They are really annoying. Um, they like And let's be real. Um, it feels better without a condom. And I feel like I can say that because it does, Um, but also because that was never I think growing up there was kind of two things. One I never knew anyone or knew of anyone that had passed away of AIDS related illnesses. So this HIV thing wasn't as much of a big deal. Um, and I think of. And second, I think with the what we're exposed to, and especially with porn, is that a lot of it now is is unprotected. Um, and that that's because of, you know, the advancements that they've been able to make in terms of keeping their actors safe. But that is not quite translated. And then that's kind of the messages that we receive and think that it's totally fine. So for me, um, it was never. It's not something that I like condoms and not something that I've always used. Um, And I think in that sense, I've just been able to, you know, I haven't I've never I haven't contracted HIV um, which like at least it isn't inherently a good or bad thing. It just would have been a lifestyle change. But I still put myself and my health at risk, um, kind of unknowingly at first and then it was kind of something that I kind of continue doing. So for me, being able to take prep means that I can kind of continue doing that and not using condoms, which I like. Even if I didn't have prep, I probably would have, anyway, which is not essentially a sexual health message from the AIDS Foundation. It's just a personal kind of thing, and I think to acknowledge that is totally cool. Um, because we're super sex positive. We want you guys to have, like, we want everyone to have the best sex as possible. And if that doesn't include condoms, then we still want you to be safe, and we still want you to take prep. And that's why it's a fantastic option. Um, so to be able to access prep? Yeah, it's It's a conversation that you have to have with a doctor. It doesn't have to be a family GP. Um, for those in Wellington or Auckland and those sorts of centres, you can go to your sexual health doctor, Um, and they're also able to prescribe it. Um, and like, I kind of mentioned quickly yesterday there's a map that we've got on our ending HIV website that show all doctors that have prescribed prep in the past and kind of know how it works and are able to have those conversations, Um, as well. So that's a really good place to start. For me, the process was super easy. Um, from doctor consultation to, um, actually getting it in my hands was about a couple of weeks. Um, and it's $5 for a three month, um, prescription. So it's super accessible and a cost sort of sense. Um, and you just take it one pill every day. Um, and you're protected from HIV, which is, um, super awesome and a massive development, um, in that space as well. And I think the third I want to also touch on this with. There's also a third kind of prevention method, um, which is a breakthrough in the last kind of couple of years in terms of science, which is what we call an undetectable viral load. So for people that are living with HIV, they can take, um, they can if they take and stay on, um, medication that suppresses the viral load, the amount of HIV they've got in their bodies. Um, they can reach what's called an undetectable status. And essentially, what that means is that the medication has suppressed the amount of HIV, um, in their blood count, which means they can't pass HIV on even if they're having unprotected sex. Um, and there was a study that was done. Um, and there was they basically did 36,000 instances of people, um, who were HIV positive having sex or people who are HIV negative, um, and of those, and that was without condoms or without, um, other protection. Uh, and there were zero instances of HIV being passed on. So it's a super exciting space if you've ever seen U equals you, um, undetectable equals untranslated. Viral load is also a really, Um, it's a also great prevention method that we've got on hand because it means that people living with HIV, um, aren't able to pass it on if they're on sustained treatment, which is pretty awesome. And it also kind of, I think, as well it's really cool because it also kind of gets rid of that, um, stigma for people living with HIV. And they don't feel like, um, they have to, you know, they're forced to, you know, wear condoms or or whatever and that sort of space and are able to, um, be healthy and stay healthy in that sort of sense as well. Yeah, for example, people who use it. It's different because the prep that is the prep is is is what is used, and it's basically concentrated in, um, it's it's concentrated in the in your So that's why that they use that. But if you if you, um needle user, then so it's different, isn't it? It's not, actually, is it not? I'm learning from you. So, um, the pharmac guide So prep is so the When I talk about prep being available, I'm talking about in a pharmac sense, So pharmac that they, um pharmac is the the pharmaceutical body. So when you go to a A, you get a pharmacy and you get a $5 prescription that's through a pharmac subsidy. So it's our wonderful public health system in a, um so the pharmac guidelines to be able to access it. Um, if so, one of the criteria, like one of the criteria, is either you've had instances of, um, with anal sex in the last three months, you've either had or you've had, um, other, um, erectile, um, sexual transmitted infections like gonorrhoea. And the other one is or you use methamphetamine as well. So, um, so for those for that as well, prep is, um, available because it still prevents HIV in that instance. But in in a general sense, if if your doctor doesn't feel like you meet the pharmac funding criteria or you don't meet the pharmac funding criteria and you want to try it out, um, you the doctor is still able to provide a prescription. Um, but they just can't. They're not able to then give you access to the the subsidised, um, prep, but basically through breakthroughs and kind of other, um pharmacies and funding for that sort of stuff. You're still able to import, um, prep from what's called the Green Cross Pharmacy based over in the UK. Um, and they can send you a prescription for prep, and it's roughly about it's a little bit more expensive. It's $65 for a three month supply of 65 New Zealand dollars. Um, so for those that aren't eligible, that's also a really great option as well. But, um, to answer your question, yes. Um, but it's again. It's a It's a conversation that you have to have with your doctor around That, too. Um, I, I will I. I will say this lot. That prep is becoming very, very popular. If you're on the everybody, we all go on the date and apps so much now because I'm in my head sometimes. No. Um, So, um, there's more and more people that have been coming on prep, So, I, I I'll give you a little example here. So when I went to the states, um, on the way back home, um, you know, on my holidays, I thought, Oh, I'll go on grinder. I'm on my holidays. I'm entitled you know. So So I went on, I went on grinder and, um uh, you know, all chatting away. And, uh, I had a debate with a couple of people that were really I got stigmatised for being a condom user. I couldn't believe it. And it happened on the way back in Vancouver as well. I was like, What is going on here? It was so pro prep over there that they were just using prep and nothing else. And what scares me here is it's gonna happen the same If someone says that they're on prep, that's all good. You take your That's the way that you treat your sexual health if you don't want. Don't be pressurised into having unprotected sex because they say you don't need to wear anything because we're on prep. You know, you need to feel comfortable. Never feel as though you have to do something that you never that that's not the case. So it's either you've got to trust that person or not. So at the end of the day, just use condoms. If you're you've got to feel comfortable, do never feel pressurised to take it to stop taking anything don't Don't feel pressurised. No, I was all about taking pills down. Not taking anything. Dirty ticket. Honestly, Yes. Um so you can still Yeah, totally. Now there is a There is a resistant gonorrhoea. It's not really hit the borders of New Zealand yet, but it it's happening. It's absolutely happening sooner or later, things mutate. HIV is a mutation. So II, I look at it like this. So the bird flu and the swine flu, right? So the bird flu, it's it's a it comes from birds and it mutated to affect humans. So that's the same as what HIV did back in. Does anybody know where our HIV started? Yes. And that's how it started from year. We don't know when Years and years ago. And it was in the Congo where there was actually eating Earth primates. And obviously there wasn't, you know, that they wasn't cooking them properly, or, um and that's how it started. So it's a mutation and sooner. I mean, maybe in 100 years or whatever it's it will mutate, you know? And prep is pretty new. The medication for HIV is pretty new. Who knows if that's gonna mutate? No, one knows. So at the end of the day, you can't go wrong with condoms. I'm a condom user. I have been since I've been, uh, since I've been very, very young. So that's what I mean. It's a sexual preference. I'm not gonna judge you because, you know you like to use Prep and he's not going to judge me, and that's the way it should be. It's respecting everybody's choice, you know? So so, yeah, it's all about, you know, just just respect that person's choice and don't get into a big debate like I did. I was like, It's ruining my holiday. I couldn't believe this actual debate, And I was, you know, it was It was like it was like a work issue. Like I'm on holidays. I talk about it, but I couldn't believe it. And, um, New Zealand has been slow getting on prep. Don't get me wrong. Um, but we have been a little bit wary about it. And, uh, even in, um, England, the statistics that have come back that well, surely the sti I rates will be going up, but actually in a couple of years, because you have to go to the doctors every three months to get checked out. So you have to get your kidneys check, check kidneys, your bloods and STI. It's maintaining that sexual health and guys particularly many of offsets with them. Not gay guys, many of offsets with men and by guys the worst to actually go to the doctors. Men in general. Does your dad go to the doctors or is he a staunch man and goes, No, I'm all right. I'll just follow on, You know, like that Exactly. It is. It's like that, and and and to get to get checked every three months, and it really levelled out surprisingly so. But it is. It works. It's stopping HIV transmission, but it's not stopping sti IS. So I think that's our message is that we want you should feel empowered to take control of your own sexual health. How I choose to do that through prep through not getting HIV and Lee chooses to do that condoms to not get HIV um, and I. I think there's also a real a real portion, and I've been, um, there's AAA little thing that's starting to emerge. It's about prep shaming, Um, and it's It's basically slut shaming for like oh, well, you prep. So you must be a slut and it's like, Well, not necessarily actually, um, but and it's one of those things that's emerging, So I think it's also not making It's just how I. I just want to take this pill daily so that if you know, for for whatever reason, that I then end up, you know, having sex with someone, then I'm protected from HIV no matter what. And if that person chooses to use a condom, then, um, we use a condom, and that's great. Um, if you know, if someone's got an undetectable viral load and and you still want to use a condom, that's also fine. If there's prep and UVL like, I think there's now a multi, a multitude of ways that you can stay safe and it's up to. It's up to you to take control of your sexual health and, um and there's no yeah, I think also what they said is you have to go to the doctor every three months now and get a full health check up and and bloods and sort of stuff and and that makes me do that every three months without fail or I don't get my, um, repeat prescription. So there are kind of there are definite. Even though prep doesn't protect me from other STIs. It does make me get tested every three months. Um, and still pretty cautious about that sort of stuff. So, yeah, does anyone ask any questions? Any questions, any personal questions? I don't care. You can ask what you like. I'll tell you, whatever you want up are not resting. I'll just say that to hint, because I'm not the one that's going to be. I'll have to ask him. Believe me, he's like Queen Latifah. Isn't he even know what Queen Latifah is? Latifa. Sorry who? One day, one day it will happen. It will happen. I just wanted to say, if you want, I was going to show some videos as well, so I might put together a little, do with some links to some interesting stuff about some cool people, and I'll post it on the page. I will do that. So that's that's what the people you've just been talking about, isn't it? Some other people as well from around the world and if you've got any other questions for me, I'm really open talking about my experience with prep. So if you want to talk to me about it, ask me anything. Um you want to know? And, um, i'll be able to tell you, so I'll be hanging around for today and tomorrow, so feel free to just come up as well. Any questions? Yeah, She fell, of course, for our present. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. 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The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/shift_2018_rainbow_history.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089830. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.