The title of this recording is "Shall We Drag". It is described as: Johnny Croskery and Colin McLean (aka Polly Filla) talk about drag performance. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 7th August 1999. This is a podcast recording and features the voices of Colin McLean and Johnny Croskery. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 19 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Johnny Croskery and Colin McLean (aka Polly Filla) talk about drag performance. The content in the recording covers the decades 1960s through to the 1990s. A brief summary of the recording is: "Shall We Drag" is a podcast interview recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand, capturing the voices of Colin McLean and Johnny Croskery as they discuss the vibrant world of drag performance across several decades, from the 1960s to the 1990s. Throughout the recording, the speakers share personal experiences and reflections on drag culture, elucidating the complexities and joys it brings to their lives. The podcast opens with a vivid description of the extravagant and theatrical nature of drag, filled with sequins, feathers, and bold accessories. Drag is portrayed as a world of performance and escapism, where individuals embrace the opportunity to transform and entertain. The recording delves into the familial reactions to engaging in drag, revealing a spectrum of acceptance and understanding. The speakers highlight the evolving reactions of their families, from initial disbelief to eventual support, noting the financial benefits of drag performances as a persuasive factor for acceptance. The distinction between drag as a performance art and cross-dressing for personal enjoyment is clarified, emphasizing the celebration of performance and entertainment central to drag culture. One of the interviewees recounts an early adoration for a glamorous neighbor, which sowed the seeds of fascination with the glitz and vibrancy associated with female allure. A poignant childhood memory is shared where the interviewee's affinity for glamorous attire clashed with societal expectations of gender-appropriate clothing. The podcast captures how drag had been a part of the performer's life since youth, leading to an eventual natural integration of drag into adulthood without contentious coming-out narratives. The recording then navigates through the social reception of drag, comparing the contrast between its normalization within gay bars and the novelty and appreciation it garners in heterosexual spaces. The fulfillment and validation gained from public admiration is discussed, showcasing the importance of audience reception to the performers. However, the podcast also touches on the loneliness and isolation that can accompany drag, the exclusion from both heterosexual and homosexual romantic interests, and the existential uncertainties that may arise. Discussion on the earlier era of drag in New Zealand reveals the resourcefulness required in the absence of readily available drag accessories, where both ingenuity and creativity were necessary for the craft. The speakers reminisce about handmade elements, from platform shoes to false eyelashes, exemplifying the ingenuity and DIY ethos prevalent in the drag community. Through the medium of podcasting, the speakers share their insights on the transformative process of getting into character. They also express the practical difficulties and discomfort that come with drag attire, and the raw release experienced once the facade is withdrawn. The recording concludes with an impassioned plea to young people to embrace drag as a fulfilling alternative to escapism, rather than turning to drugs, and the affirming power of expressing oneself through drag. The full transcription of the recording begins:  When I did drag, it always had to be a bit over the top. Hence the orange hair, which I've always worn. Um, long fingernails. Always always sequins and feathers and things. It was always that type of, um, over the top. Drag for me. Never a Mr Natural. Hardly. It's the type of thing. You go to the supermarket and mhm. Oh, my mother was pretty fine with it. She actually asked me. I had a to to hang out in my room and she said, Do you do drag? And I was thought, First of all, I was like, No. And then I told her yes. And she she was sort of like, Oh, another one bites the dust because Dad's a cross tree. So, um and then I actually told her how much I get paid for a show. And so she was like, Well, you know, keep doing it. Keep doing it. Um Her philosophy, I think, is just as long as you're happy. So sometimes she just doesn't. Doesn't want to know. Um, Dad, Dad, Dad has to be OK with it. I mean, he's a cross dresser, because otherwise he'd be a hypocrite. Um although this what I do and what he does are totally separate. He dresses up because he enjoys wearing women's clothes, and I dress up because I enjoy the whole performance aspect side of things. Um, and my brother thought it was a little bit strange, but he's used to it now. Um, for instance, a couple of weekends ago, I was walking to a bar and drag and an escort pulled up in this, um, Bogan stuck his head out and said, Oh, I think you look pretty good and then sort of honed off in the car and there was sort of like three faces I could see out the back window as the car drove off. Kind of hear no see, no evil. Speak no evil. Um, and I heard one of the people in the car go, Oh, my God, Who was that? And the driver of the car said, Oh, that's my brother. And then all the drag queens sisters of mine. I turned around and said, Oh, girl, who was that butch thing? I said, Oh, that's my brother. They were like, Oh, yeah, she's a but one, isn't she? So yeah, he handles it pretty well. He always says hi whenever he sees me out. I think probably the first wonderful thing I can remember was in the early fifties, which would have been just after the war, when people started immigrants started coming into New Zealand. There was this wonderful range of interesting people, and a woman and her husband came to live over the road from us and they were from England and he was an artist and she was one of these wonderful bleached blonde women with leopard skin coats and plastic shoes and long red fingernails. And I just idolised her because she was like nobody I'd ever seen before. And it was sort of all very film star I and I think she was probably a great influence on my life, really. Um, and I found out that her husband used to to bleach her hair, which I thought, Oh, I wonder how that done. I made a few inquiries and found out that it was peroxide, So that was it. And from then on I started being a blonde when I was probably about 12 and 13, and then at college, which was Wellington Tech at the time. Um, I was blonde through all those that it was amazing, really, Because the people at school accepted me for what I was. There was never any hassle about it, which was great. And, um, later on, when I went to, um, primary school reunions and secondary school reunions, they the people there said, Well, you were always one of the girls anyway, John. So it's It's incredible to think that they thought of that and I really had no idea at the time. Yeah, the first recollection I had was when I was five. I've got these two pictures my mother took of me and my best friend Natalie and Mom bought a whole huge big box of hats home from the Sally Army shop, and they were dressed up hats. And there was this big straw hat and it had huge red roses red, big, fake red roses all over it. And I love that hat. It's just just glamorous. And, you know, she she took this photo of me and Natalie is wearing a man's cap, and I'm wearing this hat and I've got a huge smile on my face, and then Mom sort of said Well, you know, boys don't actually wear hats like that and sort of swap their hats around. And I've got a big sort of a frown on my face. Yeah, that's sort of when I knew I wasn't, like all the other little boys and girls. I think probably the first drag I ever saw was the Kiwi concert party, which was in the forties, which my mother used to take us kids to them. We adored it. It was all. I mean, all of the the men were were doing women's roles, and it was just wonderful. The full theatrical show, Um, and I that that fascinated me. I think probably when I think the first time I ever tried drag was when I was 18. Um, it wasn't so. It was just as a fun thing. Um, and it didn't really develop until about the mid sixties. Um, and Wellington really had a very big drag scene right through the sixties and into the seventies. I mean, I can remember, um, being able to name about 60 people who used to go out every Friday and Saturday night and drag, and that was only the ones I knew so there was considerably more than that. Um, in in town at that time. Yeah, going out and dragged to a gay bar is sort of, you know, you walk in the door, everyone looks at you out for looks at you, make it. Looks like you. Yeah, fine. Next. Because drags been happening, you know, for for for years in in the gay community. And I find going into a straight bar and drag. They're a lot more appreciative of you. You know, you get people turning around people clapping, wolf, whistling, cheering, um, people coming up and asking you to dance people buying you drinks. Yeah, that's, you know, just fantastic when I get compliments. That is, that's the big payoff that, um, for me that tells me that what I do is sort of appreciated, and it's good, and it's entertaining. Um, I guess that's where I get my kick. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I don't drive. God, um and so that's where I get my buzz. Um, I get my buzz through entertaining people and seeing them having a good time. Because of something that I've done, I get a real buzz out of drag I. I think it makes me feel something that I'm not. It brings a bit of glamour and fantasy into my life, and I know it does with other people, too, because I know so many people have said, Oh, we love seeing you, Uh, when you go out because you always look glamorous and glittery and it's wonderful to know that you're still able to do it. So I think I think probably there's a lot of giving in it and and drag because I think even if you're not doing the show, you're still doing a performance and it is a performance. I mean, it's the dress up and it's the walk and probably the talk and everything else, too. I think that's probably what I get out of. And I think they do, too. Yeah, sometimes drag can be really lonely. I mean, you know, you go out and drag. You're sort of this third sex where gay men don't really want to sleep with you because you look like a woman and lesbians don't want to sleep with you because they know that you're a guy and you know that they're a woman. And so, because you're both not because I'm not a lesbian, I don't sleep with lesbians. Um, so you can It can feel very lonely and isolated. And, um, especially if I'm doing a show. And you can sort of hear people in the audience talking. Um, that means that they're not interested in what you're doing on stage and that you're boring and, um, fear of going stale fear of not feeling wanted or appreciated. That's that's just the biggest, scariest thing, you know, that you actually have no use because I think it's a It's a basic human need that everyone wants to feel needed and wanted and love for one reason or another. Well, I've never never told my, uh, it's never been an issue. I've never never told my parents that I was gay. They I think, um, I never had any reason to because I always looked rather different. Um, and I think they see you growing up, and they just accept that as being you. I remember showing my mother photographs of me and she said, Oh, who's this? Isn't she lovely? And I said, Well, that's me She said, Oh, Really? Yes. Yes. So I think she was rather thrilled to think that perhaps I had sort of done it, and it was rather nice, but, um, my sister I've been out with my sister quite a lot. Um, she thinks it's all good fun. Yes. Yes, I think it's fun. Um, when I was, um, working at Carmen's balcony, um, doing an drag show, Uh, my brother who used to be at college, then him and his friends from school used to come along and see us at night, and his friends thought it was wonderful. One of the boys in their class having a drag queen for a brother. And they used to hoon up on their motorbikes, and a few of us would hop on the back of the motorbikes and go for a burn up around town and drag. And the most amazing thing happened one night. We, um, had a little accident, and I ended up in the middle of Taranaki street with this huge motorbike sitting on top of me. The first thing I reached for was to make sure my work was still on. Unfortunately, it was drag and stuff with your mind So you you have to be pretty tough. Like when you actually get into it a lot more. Um, it can be a bit of a mind. Fuck. The first few times I did it, it was you know, it it was really fun and things. Um, and then it sort of becomes more psychological like you start to think. Well, am I a woman? Um, and you get you get a Well, I get a bit paranoid sometimes where people see Polly filler And, you know, I have people come up to me and saying, Oh, you know, come to my party. It's on here at this time and you kind of go, Oh, cool. And they go, Yeah, and where's something fabulous? And that's sort of like hinting, you know, come along and drag. And you have to start to think whether they're asking you because of who you are or because of what you are. Somebody referred to me a while back, and I thought it was rather beautifully put that I was in a time warp. But, um, I thought that was a compliment because she meant that I still look the same as I did 30 years ago when I was in drag. And to me I like the high heels, plastic front shoes, tight frocks with fish towels, lots of feathers, sequins and lots and lots of hair and eyelash. And to me, that is drag. And it's not a fashion thing. It's just a a drag thing. And when I look at books, um, from drag queens from America and from England, it's always very theatrical. Well, the ones that appeal to me, uh, and they're of the same type. It's just the the the Hollywood Glam. But yeah, I've been gayish three times. Um, basically at this on a Saturday night down Courtney Place, um, which is sort of the nightclub street, Um, and basically the same spot. And the strange thing about the three times I've been whacked, um, I wasn't in drag at any time. Um, I was on my platform boats, but that was about it. And I am actually more safer to go down Courtney place in drag than if I were to walk down Courtney Place as a camp guy because it just seems to me that, um, it's usually the guys that have a problem with it. People can accept a drag queen because you know it. It looks like a woman. It's in the form of a woman. But as soon as you get something that sort of infringes on the boundaries of masculinity, like a guy that is wearing a dress, not not someone in drag but someone that looks like a guy wearing a dress, Um, they sort of can't handle it. And I guess it's a defence mechanism. It's like, um you know, No, that's That's not right. That's not what a man should be. So we have to shoot that person down for it. Deep down inside, you sort of have this this amazing urge to express yourself by being fabulous. Um, for me, it was It was sort of a combination of several things, and I did drag, and suddenly all those things made sense. I liked dancing. I liked, um, devising theatre and doing way out performances. Um, I liked making and sewing and designing clothes and costumes. Um, I liked playing around with makeup. I liked, um, female artist, um, music, dance, music, and things like that. And so sort of doing drag, um, pull them all together I think the first thing I do is to put some wonderful music on, and it's got to be show music, preferably Jerry Herman, like maim or Hello, Dolly or, um, any of those wonderful happy shows And that's that's where it starts for me is, um, it's the whole process And, um, from there I said, it takes about two hours from woe to go, Um, because having to shave and and make up and glue eyelashes, glue fingernails on, put the wig on the whole thing. It's about about two hours to to get ready completely. But I, I think a wonderful thing is being able to come home and taking the lot off, because that to me, is getting rid of it. It's just putting the cold cream on and rubbing the whole lot of all over the face and thinking, Oh, my God, think what this was like half an hour before and then you're back to reality. But that's part of it. Which is fun, I think. Yeah, I usually think about what I I have to do or think about drag when I'm walking from my house to where I'm performing at. That's usually the time I do it. And, um, or else when I'm putting my makeup on, I think, What show am I doing tonight? What aspect am I trying to to convey to the audience? Am I trying to convey happiness and joy? Um, you know, I might put on a pink blusher and paint my smile a bit bigger. Or am I trying to convey anger and fear? And I might sort of arch my eyebrows a lot more. Um, yeah, it's all about sort of thinking how I want to portray myself to other people, and it sort of goes into the way that I mould myself. I was, um, display artist. That was my job when I was young. And, um, I used to be able to get hold of the models wigs when they were thrown out. I used to use those because we couldn't get wigs in those days. And, um, because model's heads were much smaller than a human head, so we used to have to split them up the side and sew them together. And an arrangement of flowers and feathers went on that part. And also too, with, um, with making false eyelashes that had to be done because you couldn't buy those. I'd even heard of people making, um, false fingernails nails out of fish scales, which to me, sounds rather amazing, but, um, I was told it worked. Well, um, I remember having wanted a pair of, uh, platform shoes many, many years ago before they were available. So I got a pair of ordinary shoes and put a piece of, um, carved a piece of four by two and glued that on to the bottom and a huge big six inch nail out of the heel and then fibreglass it all together. So I had the most amazing platform shoes. I think they're probably one of the first pairs in Wellington. So But I, I think this is a part of the New Zealand thing is to make do I mean even drag queens do it as well as farmers. Yeah, I find that on my way home, everything feels like it's shrinking. Um, my shoes feel very tight and very heavy. The gloves feel like they're constricting. And what? Whatever I'm wearing begins to hurt. Um, the pads that I used to pad up my bra, I sort of began to dig in, and by the time I get home, I just have to rip it all off and take the makeup off and then sort of start breathing again, as as a person. I guess I would really like to say to young people, I I'm very anti-drug and I think that you don't really need drugs because I think drag is a drug and I think that can be far more fun and have be far less devastating on you. And you can come back to reality the next day without a hangover or whatever it is you get from nasty drugs. I think it's far more fun just to do what what you like doing. But be safe about it, Yeah, such a feelings coming over me. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1960s ; 1990s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Colin McLean ; Coming Up ; Drag Queen ; God ; Hollywood ; Job ; Johnny Croskery ; London ; People ; Polly Filla ; Stuff ; Wellington ; accident ; anger ; artist ; audience ; bogan ; books ; bottom ; boundaries ; class ; community ; costumes ; dance ; dancing ; drag ; dress up ; dressed up ; dresses ; drugs ; face ; family ; fantasy ; fashion ; fear ; feelings ; film ; flowers ; friends ; fun ; gay ; glamour ; gloves ; growing up ; happiness ; hat ; high heels ; hit ; hunting ; lesbian ; love ; makeup ; masculinity ; motorbike ; music ; nightclub ; other ; parents ; performance ; primary school ; programme ; queen ; reunions ; scene ; school ; secondary school ; shoes ; show music ; sleep ; smile ; straight ; theatre ; theatrical ; time ; top ; walking ; wig ; women ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/shall_we_drag.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089171. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.