The title of this recording is "Reflecting on HLR30 Hands On". It is described as: Creek reflects on HLR30 Hands On - a massage event for activists, survivors and veterans of homosexual law reform in Aotearoa New Zealand. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 4th May 2016. Creek is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 18 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Creek reflects on HLR30 Hands On - a massage event for 'activists, survivors and veterans' of homosexual law reform in Aotearoa New Zealand. The content in the recording covers the decades 1970s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: In this podcast, Creek examines HLR30 Hands On, a commemorative massage event organized for the 'activists, survivors, and veterans' who played a role in the Homosexual Law Reform in Aotearoa New Zealand. The event marked the thirtieth anniversary of the law reform passed in 1986, offering therapeutic massages like relaxation, deep tissue, craniosacral therapy, and aromatherapy. A group of seven volunteer massage and body work practitioners provided free treatments to survivors of the homosexual law reform at Thistle Hall. The event spanned two days, offering both scheduled full-body treatments to 17 people and shorter walk-in sessions to about 10 attendees. Creek discusses the initial challenge in convincing people from the 1970s-1980s reform period to participate. Many did not see themselves fitting the term 'activist' since they downplayed their contributions, leading to the use of the more encompassing terms 'veterans' and 'survivors' acknowledging their experiences and suffering during that era. The event catered to a diverse group of individuals, including older gay and bisexual men, trans women, lesbian women, Pākehā, Māori, and Pacific peoples. The range of participants spanned from prominent leaders to quieter individuals of different age groups, all of whom offered various contributions and endured trials in their fight for gay rights. Recruitment for the event was honestly a slower process. It took multiple invites through various methods like Facebook, email, or verbal communication before individuals felt comfortable accepting the invitation. There was a deliberate care to avoid making anyone feel coerced, understanding the difficulty for some people, possibly reflective of New Zealanders' traits or lower self-esteem within the queer community, to accept kindness for themselves. Creek also remarks on the unanticipated, valuable dialogue and open conversations that blossomed between volunteers and attendees, fostering intergenerational exchanges. These interactions offered insight into the elders' experiences and allowed room for emotions like euphoria or grief to emerge, enhancing the event's significance. Remarkably, the event, which included blessings and focused on compassion and humanity, served as a spiritual moment for everyone involved. Consequently, the event garnered positive feedback and seemed to build trust within the community. The process of recruiting volunteers was relatively smoother. Utilizing social networks, a website, and personal contacts, Creek assembled a dedicated team eager to contribute to their community. Despite some typical apprehensions of possible hitches such as no-shows or logistical issues with laundry for the event, everything largely proceeded without major problems. In summary, the HLR30 Hands On event was an opportunity not only to provide physical relief through massage therapy but also served as a platform for emotional healing, reflection, and community building amongst those affected by the homosexual law reform. This unique gathering allowed for meaningful acknowledgment of the challenges faced in history and the chance to celebrate solidarity and progress within a caring and supportive environment. The full transcription of the recording begins:  So HLR 30 hands on was the HLR 30 bit stands for homosexual law reform. 30th anniversary and hands on, uh, refers to massage and body work. Um, such as, like therapeutic relaxation, massage and deep tissue massage through the sort of craniosacral therapy and aromatherapy. And we I got together a group of volunteers seven volunteers to, But there was a big, uh, many more volunteers than that. But those were the actual massage and body work practitioners with seven of us, um, to offer free massage and body work treatments to the veterans or or survivors of homosexual law Reform, which took place, was a campaign and was passed into law 30 years ago this year. So it was in 1986 and, uh, it was held at a community hall, Thistle hall. And, um, we set up, we had four tables or screened off with multiple shower curtains. Um, and, uh, yeah, we we took bookings and people came in from that era. Um, from 1986 came in and received free treatments from us. So how hard was it to find recipients of massage? You know, you're using words like, um, kind of veterans and survivors. How How hard was it to get people in it? It was hard to persuade people. And, uh yeah, those listening who have not heard my initial interview with Gareth. Gareth actually asked me back then what do you think about this term activist? Well, the term activists actually proved to be kind of problematic for people where a lot of people would say to me, Oh, I, I didn't actually do much. You know, I, I don't think of myself as an activist or or whatever. Um, so there was that element and then there was also, um It just became apparent, the more I sort of read about 1986 or the early eighties as well as the 19 seventies as well, Because the campaign, I guess, had been going on for some time. Um, that that the word of survival was more appropriate anyway because of the amount of abuse that people um suffered. And it kind of became yeah, obvious to me that rather than implying that people had to have done something specific or feel that they had done something useful or whatever towards that campaign, that it would be better to say, like your survival and your suffering is really what we're, um, honouring here. So that's why yeah, we use those words. But that wasn't the question. The question was, how hard was it to get people to come? Well, we got, um, we had we were We did the event over two days, a Saturday and a Sunday, and that was a total of 11 hours. And in that time, we did gave treatments, full body treatments. So this sort of 90 minute treatments to 17 people who booked for the full body and then another 10 or so dropped in and had drop in sort of treatments, which we also offered That might just be head, neck and shoulders on a on a seat or a foot massage on a seat. And we also had one table going. That was, um, like you could drop in for a clothed, 20 minute body massage. So just sort of a shorter, less intensive kind of a treatment. Um and so yeah, I guess around about around about 30 or so people from that era, um, were persuaded to come in the end, which was I. I was pleased with that number and in terms of how many volunteers we had practising and what they like to give a 90 minute massage is kind of quite it takes a little bit of a toll on your body. You need to have rest. And, um so it was good, because, I mean, we didn't overwork. They were not overworked. It was not so strenuous that yeah, they didn't. The volunteers themselves also found it rewarding rather than strenuous. Um, and yeah. Hard to persuade people. Yes, it was. Yes, indeed. People had to kind of, um, get asked a number of times from various channels or have the have the sort of invitation put in front of them through, you know, like Facebook or email or verbally. And until they decided that it was a good idea. And it was like walking a fine balance because you don't want to be coercing people into, um, receiving a a body treatment. That's weird and creepy. Um, so we definitely didn't push that, But people just kind of, um it was sort of like accepting a nice thing for themselves, And that's quite hard for people, maybe particularly New Zealanders who are quite reticent or maybe particularly queer people who are quite may have lower self esteem. Maybe, um, I don't know, but anyway, yeah, I think it was meaningful for those who did come. Yeah, and could you characterise the the 30 that did attend with the kind of common traits? Uh, no, there was. There was quite a range. We Yeah, we had, um we had older, older gay men. Older, bisexual men. Uh, trans women. Um um lesbian women, bisexual woman. Um, pakeha, Maori Pacific people. Um, so quite a good spectrum, I guess of of our communities and kind of quite a good age range as well, Like, we would have had some people who were, quite, I think, in the eighties, maybe, and then others who were more like in their fifties or something like that. Um, so yeah, and And there were and there were, um, in terms of activism, there were some who were quite prominent leaders of the campaign, um, and others who who sort of, um, indicated that they didn't feel that they'd done very much or done enough, But then kind of in the just in the or in the the little anecdotes that they said clearly were, you know, around at the time and yes, suffered and survived And, um, experienced being queer in the seventies and eighties. So yeah, it was cool. II. I like that. I like the fact that there were, like, very prominent people as well as just the kind of, um I don't know how they would describe themselves, but just, um yeah, it's good to acknowledge people who might be a bit quieter or understated as well as those who who are our tall poppies, and we don't want to cut down tall poppies. But we also like low hanging poppies, too. What's not to like? Poppies are all great. So, uh, words like, uh, survival surviving. Um, suffering. What were some of the stories that people told you, Are you able to recount some of the things that actually, people went through? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but me personally, because I'm actually not much of a talker with people. I'm not very warm and to recruit people to come to this event. I hate that word recruiter so military to to get people to come to this event. I really did rely on some warmer people than myself. Like Sean, um, my partner and Jack Lynch. Um um, I'm I'm I am a trained massage practitioner, but that's a quiet activity. But, um, second hand, I guess anecdotes that I heard just were things like 11 person said that he the last time he'd had a massage was actually in 1985 or 1986 during an event similar to this one that was held for stress relief and as part of the campaign, Um, so that was cool. Um, we we know that, you know, like the bisexual women, a couple of the bisexual women who came to us. Um, we know that it was pretty hellish for bisexual people in the in the 19 eighties. They were just sort of attacked from within our own communities. And yeah, to some extent, the whole homosexual law reform campaign was partly a campaign for, um, the legal legitimization of our existence and partly a kind of an internal campaign to an internal campaign for solidarity with one another. So there were sort of stories from that side of things as well. Um, we know that there were people who were living as gay men at the time who who were, you know, abused and spat at in the street and things like that. And, yeah, pretty pretty yuck stuff for the body to go through, I think. And how did they respond to the, um, this event? How the messages, Um, some people were, you know, like, sort of floods of tears or or or quite sort of just didn't have words to For what? Just the feeling was, um um and others were more like euphoric. And you do see that in massage people, if if the people the sort of two extremes of response are, like kind of euphoria and kind of bouncing off the walls and highly energised after a massage and and just sort of quiet and and solemn because something's come up, um, some grief has come up. Um, so that was good. It means things were were working as expected, I suppose. Yeah, Yeah, it was. I mean, it was pretty. It's It's, like over a month ago now, but it was pretty. It was a pretty magical time. There was some kind of heightened sense of humanity in that hall the whole time. Um We opened it with a with a kind of a A blessing, um, for for us as practitioners, and to to bear in mind our our kind of queer ancestors and and bear in mind what the people had gone through who were coming to us. Um, and that maybe brought a lot of, I don't know, compassion or something up in us. And the people who came to us came with a lot of trust, obviously, Um, and that was really held very well by the whole, um, the space as well as everyone who was there and so that I think made it quite. I want to say quite a spiritual time for everybody involved, It seemed like, and that was good. You know, we received a lot of positive feedback about it. Yeah, it sounds like an incredibly, um, sharing time. Hm hm. And, yeah, there was sort of this unanticipated, um, byproduct of of the consequence of holding the event was that you would you would overhear the the the practitioners talking with the their elders. Um, and that they would like it was an exchange. There was dialogue. It wasn't just monologue and and listening it was I would over here, Um, you know, like a a young a young gay male was volunteering as a head doing head, neck and shoulders, um, massage treatments for the drop in kind of part of it. And And I was behind the curtain, massaging someone on the table. But I just overheard this discussion between, um a a quite a quite well known lesbian separatist kind of a person. She's a strong leader of our community, and, um and she received a head, neck and shoulders massage from this very young gay man, and it was just a really beautiful open conversation between them. She asked him about his life, and he asked her about her life, and she afterwards definitely expressed quite a bit of a surprise that but she said she said that she she never thought she would let a young man fondle her like that, but she feels quite changed. It's quite it's been quite a quite a change for her, and quite, um, um, it was It's not an expression that she's changing her sexuality, just that she had had this, like a actual human interaction with I don't know. Perhaps someone she might previously have perceived of as the enemy or something. I don't know, but yeah, it was just It was cool. It was a It was an intergenerational. And it was cool to to here. Yeah. And what about the volunteers? Um, how did you go about finding them? Um, what did I do? We had I had I have a website and the and, um, I got because I'm not on Facebook, but I got people to share links. Um, links as I put them up on on that website to encourage people to, um to volunteer and just put the word out that this event was happening. And it was quite easy in a way to to get people to do so because, I don't know, there just was a lot of motivation, um, among queer trained, um, practitioners to to participate in this, they want they had a drive and an interested in giving something back to their elders. They definitely had an awareness of the fact that society, um, has changed for, um LGBT T I people. Now it's still not perfect, but I believe it is. Is it easier now? I think it's easier now. Yeah, it definitely is. You can have a passion in the street with your partner. You didn't used to be able to do that. Really? Um um there was a contact form on the website, and, um, lots of people filled that out. Um, one just from out of the blue, who I didn't even know from Dunedin where I'm from filled out the contact form. And I said, OK, ok, let's Let's bring you up. Um, for it. He was really enthusiastic and great about that. Um, another person from Dunedin who I did know from the same school that I went to, um, like, the same massage college. I just phoned her up and asked her if she would be interested. Do I phone her? I texted her. Anyway, she came up, um, and yeah, another one came down from Auckland. She she just saw, I think, a link on Facebook, and she's an activist as well. So she was really into it and came down. Um, yeah, so just I guess you'd call it through Social networks found people. Hm. Yeah. And like originally, there were eight volunteers. Only one sort of proved unreliable or dropped out towards towards the end, Um, like, close to close to the event. So I think that's a really good hit rate. And yeah. Was there anything that surprised you? Uh, mainly that mainly that intergenerational conversation thing. Just I mean, it's it's silly that it did surprise me. It just I hadn't I hadn't thought about that. I just thought about the physical act of of giving massage and body work to people as a as a gift. Um, but yeah, the the discussions that took place, I think they were really nourishing for people from both sides, both the volunteers and the guests. And, I don't know, maybe it was a little bit surprising how smoothly it went. You kind of, um maybe because because project management involves thinking in the future a lot and you have to plan for contingency like you do contingency planning. So you have to plan for everything that could go wrong and then head that off with other backup plans and things like that. And so that means you are kind of when you're thinking when you're imagining it before it's happened. You are thinking about everything that could go wrong and So then when When nothing really did very major go wrong. That was quite surprising. So what are the kind of calamities that you were kind of, um, thinking that might happen? Um, I guess people not showing up or, um, like the the drop in component of it. Nobody turning up or, um, And when I say people not turning up like people who had made bookings, not turning up as well as the volunteers not turning up. Um, I guess not the like. There was this massive laundry operation going on behind or in in tandem with this event because there's a laundromat directly across the road from the hall. So we had towels and cycle over the road and then being brought back, being dried and being brought back. Um and I guess, like, what if we didn't have enough towels and then someone came for the booking and I'm like, I'm sorry, we don't have We don't have the towels or sheets. We can't do it. Um uh, not like, um I think always. You you you know, you've got to look after your volunteers, and you've got to look after them really well, because otherwise you'll have rebellion. We could have upset or offended somebody and had, you know, a big shit fight. Because that's what happens in our community. Sometimes. Yeah. So lots of things could have gone wrong. And they mostly did not. Yeah, pretty much didn't go wrong. It was just a really nice time. Bliss blissful kind of. For everyone involved, maybe. Yeah. Mm. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1970s ; 1980s ; 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Auckland ; Creek ; Dunedin ; HLR30 Hands On ; Homosexual Law Reform ; Homosexual Law Reform Act (1986) ; Jac Lynch ; Māori ; Older Gay Men ; Pacific ; Pakeha ; Pasifika ; People ; Sian Torrington ; Space ; Stuff ; Thistle Hall ; Wellington ; abuse ; activism ; ancestors ; balance ; bear ; bisexual ; blessing ; change ; community ; compassion ; conversation ; elders ; email ; expression ; facebook. com ; future ; gay ; grief ; hit ; homosexual ; homosexual law reform ; horse ; humanity ; intergenerational ; internet ; language ; laundry ; law ; lesbian ; lesbian separatism ; listening ; massage ; military ; other ; plan ; project management ; public display of affection (PDA) ; queer ; relaxation massage ; school ; self esteem ; sexuality ; social ; solidarity ; spectrum ; stress ; suffering ; survival ; survivor ; time ; trans ; transgender ; trust ; veteran ; volunteer ; walking ; website ; women. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/reflecting_on_hlr30_hands_on.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089746. Creek also features audibly in the following recordings: "Creek - Butch on Butch", "HLR30 Hands On" and "Lesbian Visibility Day panel". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.