The title of this recording is "Jan Logie - Rainbow Politicians". It is described as: Jan Logie from the Green Party talks about being a Member of Parliament. It was recorded in Parliament buildings, 1 Molesworth Street, Wellington on the 10th October 2012. Jan Logie is being interviewed by Jo Jackson / Grizz.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 25 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Jan Logie from the Green Party talks to Jo Jackson about what it's like to be a Member of Parliament. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: In this detailed abstract of the podcast "Rainbow Politicians," the Green Party's Jan Logie discusses with interviewer Jo Jackson the experiences and implications of being an openly queer Member of Parliament (MP) in New Zealand. Recorded on the 10th of October, 2012, at the Parliament buildings in Wellington, the 25-minute conversation broaches topics such as personal identity, representation, and the interplay between public service and human rights advocacy. Jan Logie shares insights into the transition from private life to a public role, considering the personal adjustments required when one's life becomes visible in the public eye. They affirm their openness about their queer identity and describe how their maiden speech in Parliament served as a public affirmation of their identity. Reflecting on their previous occupation as a development manager at a university, Logie explores the nuances of being out in a political context. One focal point of the discussion is the intersectionality of their role. Logie oversees both the Pacific Islands and Rainbow Portfolios, and addresses concerns some express about a perceived conflict between these responsibilities. Within Parliament, they note that the Green Party's commitment to human rights creates an inclusive environment where their queer identity is welcomed and even celebrated. However, they also sense a certain cautiousness from others in Parliament. Logie also ponders whether their sexuality influenced their electability. They recount a conversation with their mother which highlighted the contrast between societal assumptions and the Green Party's embrace of diversity as a political strength. Although unsure if they have experienced direct homophobia due to their public status, Logie anticipates that their lack of children and partner could present vulnerabilities to attack, especially when engaging with issues related to women's and children's rights. Their queer identity has, however, facilitated positive outcomes in Parliament. For example, Logie collaborates on trans issues with MPs from other parties, using their position to advance legislative discussions that directly affect queer communities. Logie does not shy away from acknowledging that some MPs may choose not to reveal their queer identity, understanding the political complexities that may influence such decisions. They further discuss the importance of queer representation in Parliament, advocating for greater inclusion of diverse voices, particularly from trans communities. The abstract touches on broader societal concerns, such as equality for women and the entrenched gender disparities within the political domain. Logie argues for comprehensive social change to achieve gender equality, including addressing domestic violence, sharing unpaid labor, and reevaluating cultural portrayals of women. Education emerges as another critical area for reform, with Logie suggesting updated health classes to reflect sexual diversity and the implementation of policies to combat bullying and support queer youth. The recording highlights Jan Logie's personal journey as a queer politician and their dedication to advocating for human rights and diversity both within the Green Party and in New Zealand's Parliament. They believe in the power of political engagement and community support to foster a representative and inclusive government that addresses the needs and rights of all citizens, regardless of their identity. The full transcription of the recording begins:  So how long have you been an MP? Oh, that must be about 10 months now. And you've been out the whole time? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess I Well, I was out. You know, it's always that thing. I guess you're only out to people. Um, when you come out, particularly if you look like I do. So, um, So I'm sure I wasn't out for lots of people, but, um, at least my maiden speech was making a very clear statement and that that that's when you publicly came out as it were, I guess, to everyone in Parliament. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, what was your job before you became an MP? I was, um, a development manager of a research group at university. Right. So your private life changed considerably after being in the public eye. Do you think over that transition, I That's an interesting Yeah, I guess so. Um, I'm still kind of coming to grips with that of whether it has or whether it hasn't or Yeah. Yeah. How has, um, people, people knowing that your queer affected the way that you've been treated both inside parliament and outside? Um, mhm. I'm I guess you never know what you don't know And that kind of, um I don't know if people treat me differently, because I don't know how they treat me otherwise, um, the outside of parliament, it's been it's mostly comes up quite, I think, quite sadly, um, when people ask me. Hm. So you've got the Pacific Islands portfolio and you've got the Rainbow Portfolio. Do you think there's a conflict there? Yeah, which is really sad. And so that's not really so much about me. It's more, um, people's perceptions that there's a conflict. So I've been really unclear with these answers. Um, and within Parliament, I think, um, yeah, I actually to tell the within the greens. Um, we've got such a strong kind of human rights focus and justice focus that, um, that isn't an issue. And we can, you know, kind of make jokes and play about things. And why the parliament? I guess there's a There's a I have a bit of a sense that people have a sense that they have to be a bit careful. Yeah. Um, well, you just said that greens have quite a human rights focus. Um, do you think that your sexuality affected whether people voted for you. Oh, this is Well, I don't know. Hopefully, um, I remember talking to my mom about this when, um, I had to be interviewed to become a candidate for the greens. And you have to pass these kind of things and you have to disclose if there's any kind of secrets, you know, in your family, which I had to disclose. My dad has a but, um, and my mother was like, Oh, so did Did you tell them you were a lesbian? And I was like, Mom, you know, actually, in the greens, it's not something you have to disclose. It's probably more something you put as a you know, a promotion point because it's about representing different communities. And she's like, Oh, but, well, what do you think about for the general public? And it was a really interesting kind of discussion, because for her, it's still that perception in society that it's something you would have to disclose that there may be kind of negative consequences to, whereas for the Greens, it's actually I think it is a positive, because it's about furthering our diversity. Um, and do you think that you have faced any homophobia that you wouldn't otherwise have faced if you've been in the public eye. I mean, I know it's hard to, um, I don't know yet, actually, Um, and I think the, um and particularly I think maybe with this position, there's two. I predict there's kind of two kinds of homophobia that be the, um, people just not connected, not approaching, not connecting. Um, because they'd be seeing me as, um, just not relatable because they have that homophobia. And so that's not something I'm going to be able to know about. Um, unless I hear it second hand from other people when I've broken through that, um, so I suspect there is an element of that. Maybe, um, but I haven't seen it directly because you don't see that directly. And then the more obvious direct stuff I haven't experienced yet and I expect is more. And it's I think I'm likely to come out against because I I'm a lesbian without Children without partner. So I think I'm probably there is the potential to get better attack, particularly when I've got the women's portfolio or talking about Children. Um, but yeah, um, have there been any positive experiences that have come from you being queer and out in Parliament? Um, well, from my perspective, Yeah, a lot. Because I get to, um I get to talk about, um, issues. And, you know, there was a national party MP who, um, is been approached by somebody in his community who's wanting kind of action around trans issues. And he was saying, like he recognised. He probably wasn't the person to do that to be able to do that, But he referred her to me so that we can work together and do that. And that's how fantastic is that. I just think that's really exciting. And also just, um, to be queer in Parliament and be able to, you know, have that awareness to look for what it will mean for our communities when we're looking at, um, you know, identity legislation as an example and that I can add that to, uh, you know, the debates in parliament that that feels worth well to me. Um, do you know of any not out queer MP S? I'm not asking you to help. Well, well, there's lots of rumours. And can you Can you think of any reasons why anyone would not want to disclose? Um, I guess historical also, um, I can see if a party doesn't have a human rights portfolio. If a party, um, still or doesn't have a human rights platform, then it's still all about contesting, um, these ideas rather than, um, you know, like we see in the two major parties as an example and their position around marriage equality, you know that there's there's not a fundamental platform. So therefore, if you're out in those parties, you're aligning yourself with a group within the party and and not aligning yourself with others clearly so I could see if somebody was in a particular camp that was conservative or, you know, the numbers didn't stack up for them. It seems really sad, and I I'm not sure how people do it, but I can see why. And are you glad you came out? Well, I guess it it would be too weird to me not to, you know, like that would be really strange, because it's, you know, part of what I want to do. And it's part of who I am, and I've I've lived in places before where I haven't been out. And that's it's a surreal experience, I think. Yeah. Um, do you think that queer people are underrepresented in Parliament in in New Zealand as well? Um, well, I would like to see, um, more trans people and in our parliament, Um, and I haven't actually done the figures about whether we're because it's It's nice to see that at the moment at least, you know that we've got the Rainbow Caucus across labour and the greens and that we're able to because it's not just about the numbers. It's about the willingness to actually represent our communities. Um, and that feels quite good. But it's not across all the parties and ideally, that it should be. There should be, Yeah, what do you think would have to change in New Zealand for that to occur? Um, I think it's, I mean by the change that we're seeing with the, um, marriage equality from seven years before civil unions debates. Um, I guess it is that sense of mainstreaming that, um, as much as I my personal and political values are that, um, being queer is a radical, and being out is a way to challenge the, you know, status quo in the world and and make the world a better place. I guess I have to allow for some people being conservative, and being queer might be also positive, you know, but and that's about mainstreaming. So, yeah. Um, do you think it's more difficult to be in the underrepresented group that is queer people or the underrepresented group that is women? Mm. Um, that's a really interesting question, I And to be honest, at the moment, I think Parliament is more antagonistic towards women. Why do you think that is? Um I think if you look at, um, part of the attacks against Labour were around Helen Clark and this concept of nanny state, and that was a very gendered attack on the government that had a lot of support from the public. And, um, the power brokers within the government are all male, regardless of who's sitting on the front bench or the power brokers are male. And, um, I think they're quite so. It is a very an increasingly masculine environment. And you know where rape jokes are made and people feel really comfortable that some people within parliament seem really comfortable with outright misogyny. Whereas even if we looked at the debate around, um, marriage, equality again, then that the extreme homophobia was couched as other people think this which is a really fantastic progression, you know? But, um yeah, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. To be honest of why there's those seems to have been progress here and and regression here. What do you think would have to change in New Zealand for women to be equally represented in positions of power as men Do you think? Um, well, a huge number of things, actually, we have to address, um, the levels of domestic violence in the country. We would have to, um sheer, um, unpaid labour. Equally. Women would have to be, you know, enabled to make, um, choices around parenting and paid work. Um, we would need to, um, actually have honest conversations and be willing to shift cultural representations of women. Um, you know, just simple things like that. And you think that's a harder task than shifting? Um, people's views or perceptions of queer people? Um, no. And it's interesting because I and I haven't actually thought through these questions before about looking at that comparison and because I also see a lot of homophobia as gender based. It's around gender conformity. If you look at you know, a lot of, um, the verbal attacks of, um, around, um, homophobic bullying of men. It's around non conformity to the the male stereotype. So and similarly for women, I think a lot of the kind of lesbian, um, abuse comes in when women are seen not to be, um, ascribed being, you know, acting in a gender appropriate way. So I'm not quite sure, actually, how we have managed to make seem to have made progress. And yet the gender role seemed to be more entrenched than ever. Um, so what do you think about the wording on the Human Rights Act when it comes to gender discrimination? Um, we need I think that's one of the things I'm looking at is actually, um, because it's very specific. It's, um and we've the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. The committee that oversees that which New Zealand is a signatory to um, has been raising issues in terms of our Human Rights Act with us for a while as well as, um, the fact that our Bill of Rights Act doesn't have primacy in our law so that, you know, we've got this bill of rights, but actually, we can overrule it pretty much any time we want in legislation, which we seem to be doing increasingly. So, um, I think we need to broaden make gender a basis of, um, for nondiscrimination because it's not at the moment. Yeah. Um, so, uh, you said before the civil union versus marriage equality debate just for the record, where do you stand on that? Um well, the greens, it's a platform for us to support marriage equality and that it's, you know, it's a human rights equality under the law issue for us and, uh, adoption. Um, that's and Kevin, I'm sure spoke more about this, that he's developing a member's bill, um, to go on to the ballot. I It's for me. I I'm not even comfortable having the conversation about queer adoption personally, um, outside of the context of needing to completely reform an adoption law because it's antiquated and treats Children as chattels. And that's not something I want any part of. Um and at the same time want all of my friends who are queer parents to be able to, um, have their role as parents acknowledged properly. Yeah. So what kind of support do you get from the queer community? Um, how in, um, the lead up to the election. My friends organised a, um, pink and green cabaret fundraiser for me, which was, you know, drag queens and kings and songs and artists. And it was I mean, like, it was so fantastic. It was, you know, it was the best thing ever. Really. Um, and just, um when I guess people being or kind of just that feedback or being able to go to things and feel, um as if I'm part of because, you know, the weird thing of parliament is it feels like and there's a real and general public of politicians. We all slag them off, and it's politicians as others. So the community the most support is to feel like I'm just part of the community. And, um So who are your queer heroes? Like queer heroes? Um Hm. By just stay politicians or not. Either way, um hm. Probably wouldn't be politicians generally, um I think Georgina Baer was is, um, Elizabeth Kelly I think she's doing She's just been so, so solid in the community. She's, um, doing great work around and re uncovering the history, um, in New Zealand that I just think is really important. Um, there there's so many people doing so many amazing things. Yeah. And, um, yeah, how do you cope with some of the anti homosexual and and anti queer statements that happen in the debating chamber? Um, I guess it's in. I guess it is. In that context of some days, I it just completely washes over me. And I'm just like hm, yeah, I'll do my work on my iPad and tune in when, um when I need to. And then there are other days where, um and this is, I guess, more around some of the when the because I Sorry again? I'm waffling. Um, there's the like Those one off kind of statements to me are part of the game that people feel like they're playing, and that doesn't that stuff doesn't feel real to me, actually. And so I find that quite easy to dismiss when what I find harder is the substantive issues around. Um, you know, whether it be welfare reform, which isn't around homophobia, but or the, um, dismissal by the Minister of Corrections around safety of trans, um, prisoners, Um, and that that stuff I find much harder because, um, it's actually about people's lives. And it's not a game. And yeah, and, uh, do you have any thoughts on how we can lessen bullying and suicide rates in queer use? Um, I think we do. I mean, actually, you know Murray Richards report, um, that Kevin sponsored and the last term of parliament has given us some pretty good directions in terms of what needs to happen in schools. What sort of, um, I guess it's around having some of the alliances in school being kind of, um more proactive around visibility, um, and anti-bullying processes and making sure that, um actually, that's that we specify. And we're clear around that, you know, that we've seen and we're looking at doing, um, Kevin and I at the moment with auditing schools because, um, auditing Eros reports of schools because schools are required to have, um, policies, and they probably do, but it doesn't mean anyone knows they're there. Um, so we're looking. I guess it's Yeah, There's a whole lot of things that can be done within school environments, and wider than that, I think we need to do more work around, um, promoting diversity. And what about in terms of education and and health classes in school? Do you think that's something that that we need to change? I would imagine. I'm not sure, actually. What's going on in them at the moment, do you? What's are they completely heteros? Yeah, Well, yeah, that that would be a good place to start. And And, I mean, that's when I was working in youth health. Like some schools, like, I do think the government does need to get more active. And some schools We weren't allowed into the school because we promoted a service that was confidential, and that was enough to get us banned from speaking at a school because they had so much fear around, you know, young people's behaviour. It wasn't even, you know, there was no consciousness of the young people's safety in that model at all. So what can the queer community do to support queer politicians? Um, I guess Engage. Engage in politics, and I understand why people don't. Um And in some ways, you know, we do supporting politicians as as a great is a good thing, but equally, you know, like there are a lot of people doing really important jobs as well who need support. And, um, I think, but I think the shared I don't think we should have support in ourselves. Actually, I'd go back to that just because we we and we're in parliament. I think we should be supported for doing, um, the things that need to be done. Yeah. And, um, what do you think we can do to encourage young people to be interested in politics? Well, I'd be interested in your view on that more actually like because for me, this is I can It's, um some of the conversations I've had with young people have blown my mind, and I found incredibly inspiring about what they see as the gap between what's important to them and what they hear coming out of parliament. Or, you know, being translated by the media as coming out of parliament. And what what's happening here and that there's this massive gap. What? What is in that gap. Well, some of the things they were talking to some, and this was kind of more disenfranchised young people, but was like, um kind of, you know, just this perception of fairness and their world view just being a really different world view, like, um, some young Maori talking about, you know, And, um and really just saying they weren't hearing any conversations in Parliament that reflected that kind of world view. And I was just, like, wonder what that would look like, You know, And some of the conversations I hear from young people around, um, just gender diversity and just a real really, I think exciting radicalism that, you know, parliaments just nowhere near those conversations, really. And but it would be exciting to think about ways we can bridge that gap, because otherwise, you know, Parliament's going to become this irrelevant fringe institution that, you know, makes people's lives harder because people don't understand what people's actual lives are like. And so you think that's the direction Parliament should be going in a more radical? Well, it's not necessarily even parliament because I don't think you know the young people I talk to are necessarily representative of all young people. Um, but it's about making sure that that those views are being heard like that. There's a place in parliament for people's views to be reflected and contested, you know, because I do get you know, that there's a whole bunch of happily conservative, you know, or but, you know, whatever young people and people who also aren't engaged, but it's we've got to bridge that gap somehow. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; China ; Elizabeth Kerekere ; Georgina Beyer ; Green Party ; Helen Clark ; Human Rights Act (1993) ; Jan Logie ; Job ; Kevin Hague ; Marriage Amendment Act (2012) ; Marriage Equality ; Pacific ; Parliament buildings ; People ; Queer Politicians ; Rainbow Caucus (Parliament) ; Stuff ; University of Otago ; Youth ; abuse ; activism ; adoption ; attack ; broken ; bullying ; cabaret ; camp ; career ; change ; children ; civil unions ; coming out ; community ; conflict ; conformity ; conservative ; conversation ; disclosure ; discrimination ; diversity ; domestic violence ; drag ; education ; empowerment ; environment ; equality ; faith ; family ; fear ; friends ; gender ; gender identity ; government ; health ; helmet ; history ; hit ; homophobia ; homophobic bullying ; human rights ; identity ; justice ; law ; legislation ; lesbian ; mainstreaming ; marriage ; marriage equality ; mary ; masculine ; media ; misogyny ; myth ; news ; other ; parenting ; parents ; parties ; perception ; politics ; power ; prison ; privacy ; public figure ; queer ; rainbow ; rape ; representation ; research ; sad ; safety ; school ; sexuality ; speech ; suicide ; support ; time ; transgender ; transition ; treat ; trust ; unions ; university ; values ; violence ; visibility ; women ; work ; youth. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/rainbow_politicians_jan_logie.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089346. Jan Logie also features audibly in the following recordings: "Parliament: second reading of the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill", "Participants in Marriage Equality march", "Fighting Homophobia - Marriage Equality Conference", "Session 12 - Beyond conference", "The Legislative Process", "A Place to Stand", "Parliament: third reading of the Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Bill", "Out in the carPark", "Parliament: third reading of the Sullivan Birth Certificate Bill", "Wellington Pride Parade (2016)", "Part 1 - Opening ceremony at Parliament - Wellington Pride Festival 2016", "Solidarity with Orlando Candlelight Vigil - Wellington", "Wellington Pride Parade 2017", "Chechnya Vigil", "IDAHOBIT 2017", "Parliament: first reading of the Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Bill", "Rainbow Election Forum 2017", "Lets talk about hate speech", "Out in the Park opening (2018)", "Jan Logie - Out in the Park (2018)", "Opening of Wellington International Pride Parade (2018)", "Wellington International Pride Parade 2018", "Vigil for Zena", "Parliament: second reading of the Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Bill", "IDAHOBIT 2018", "Wellington International Pride Parade 2019", "Re-opening of the Rainbow Room at Parliament", "Our Stonewall", "Jan Logie tours the Rainbow Room", "Part 1 - LGBTTQIAP+ Political Forum", "Part 2 - LGBTTQIAP+ Political Forum", "Out in the City (2021)", "Hikoi to Out in the City (2021)", "Paekākāriki Pop-up Vaxx" and "Chosen Family Night panel". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.