The title of this recording is "Visiting the Queer Arts Festival hub". It is described as: Jess Ducey, co-founder of the Queer Arts Festival talks about the inaugural festival which ran in Wellington from 30 May to 5 June 2022. Also featured are Will Hansen and Roger Smith from LAGANZ. It was recorded in 106 Courtenay Place, Wellington on the 4th June 2022. This is an interview with Jess Ducey, Roger Smith and Will Hansen. The interviewer is Gareth Watkins. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 46 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. The content in the recording covers the decades 1970s through to the 2020s. A brief summary of the recording is: The recording explores the origins and execution of the Queer Arts Festival (QAF) in Wellington, emphasizing its meaningful impact on the community and the relevance of its location at 106 Courtenay Place. The discussion begins with Jess Ducey, who explains the festival's accidental inception following a road-trip conversation between Ducey and their partner. Born from a shared passion for queer art and a desire to spotlight the rich artistic tapestry within Wellington, the festival aims to celebrate and pay fair wages to queer artists. With funding from the Wellington City Council's Creative Communities Fund, what started as a whimsical idea materialized into a week-long celebration across various art forms, with events from galas to literary readings and drag performances. Exemplifying the festival's inclusivity, the hub became a forum for showcasing a diverse range of artworks, from soapstone carvings to zines. The QAF utilized a collective approach to planning and funding, emphasizing artist compensation as a fundamental principle. Jess Ducey highlights the festival's emphasis on paying artists fairly and creating joyous, community-driven events that affirm the city's identity as a creative hub. During the interview, Jess also mentions the strategic use of the term "queer" in the festival's title. The choice stems from its brevity and the capacity to encapsulate a spectrum of sexual orientations and gender identities without delving into precise terminology. Additionally, the term stands as a reclaimed expression of the community's diverse identities. The conversation also touches upon audience inclusivity and the positive reception of the festival, which challenges notions of art accessibility and affirms the significance of representation in communal spaces. The recording also features a conversation with Will Hansen and Roger Smith regarding the presence of the Lesbian and Gay Archives of New Zealand (LAGANZ) at the festival, emphasizing the importance of making queer history visible and accessible. They illuminate the challenges facing archives such as funding and the need for continual custodianship. The talk reflects on the evolution of the term "gay liberation" since the 1970s, the potential for a Queer History Month in New Zealand, and the critical role of archives in preserving and disseminating LGBTQ+ history. As the interview concludes, the speakers share thoughtful perspectives on the future of queer communities, including the necessity for systemic changes and the recognition of queer histories as a vital component of the nation's narrative. The full transcription of the recording begins:  My name is Jess. Do, uh, they or she pronouns? We are currently at 106 Courtney Place, which is the urban dream brokerage pop up space that we are using as a queer a F Queer Arts Festival headquarters for this week. Tell me about that. Where did it come from? What is it? Um, stands for Queer Arts Festival. Um, not the most creative title. Actually, we were calling it the Queer Arts Festival for a while, and then we realised that it shortened quite nicely to queer F. Um, which brought us great joy. Um, the end of last year, my partner and I were on a road trip. We I just got rejected for a job programming a festival. Um, I really enjoy events. They really enjoy Queer art. We both enjoy queer art, and we kind of started talking about how it would be neat to have just a whole festival of queer art. There's so many amazing performers and artists and writers and poets in this town, and they're doing a lot of amazing art less so in the last couple of years. And we thought it would just be nice to have a week. Just a party basically of as much queer art as we could get crammed into one week. Um and then we accidentally followed through on that. I guess that's how we got here. Um, we put in for funding to, uh, Wellington City Council's Creative Communities Fund. And that came through in March. And that was kind of the impetus to go from OK, this is a hair brand scheme, OK, we can actually do this with some funding. Um, because we we kind of devised a model where we'd recruit producers from different art forms to put on an event kind of within their art form. We'd pay artists a base fee coming out of the subsidised, like the grants, budgets and stuff with ticket sales. Kind of topping it up to make sure we can pay artists because currently, at the way, we price tickets and the size of venues, especially if you have to space people out under covid. You can't pay people a fair wage based on ticket sales alone. So we needed some grant funding. And once we secured some of that, we decided to go ahead and do it. I'm I'm just kind of going like, Wow, because, um, community events I've known about in the past that they've been like umbrella organisations where groups have kind of come under that umbrella. But you're actually doing more than that. You're actually paying performers. Yeah. Um, yeah. So we made a little kind of umbrella organisation we're operating under, um, an organisation called Open Collective, which basically operates as either a charitable trust or a society without you having to do the registration so we could run a kind of pilot that way. Um, and yeah, we both have worked in nonprofits. We've worked in fundraising, We've worked in the arts, and we know that it's really hard to make a living in the arts. Um, I have a cushy public service day job. Um, that I cut my hours on to work on this, and it was just one of those things where we're like, No, if we're going to do events and festivals, we should. This is about celebrating. The artist is about creating work for them, and this is about this being a positive experience for artists and then as a nice bonus, sharing the art with the town. Um and kind of showing people. This is this is who makes the city interesting. And this is what makes Wellington a creative capital and a po absolutely, positively Wellington And all the kind of things that we tell ourselves about our city. Um, and I think it's really easy to forget that those are actual people who make that. That's why the city is interesting. Um, and we're starting to lose people because you can't afford to live in this town. And so we wanted to create some work, Um, and basically just have a big gay party. So can you give me a sense of some of the acts that have performed over the last week? Um, yeah, we've had, uh, a whole bunch of shows. Um, we started with an opening gala on Monday. Um, where the performed Who are Wellington's? They were amazing. Um, we had some comedy and some improv on Tuesday night. Wednesday night, we had, um, a literature reading where writers read letters to their queer idols. Um, and then we had a music gig Thursday night. We had burlesque and some poetry readings. Um, Friday night and all week long we had too much hair, gender, euphoric musical about, um, by and about trans and non-binary and gender nonconforming people and the kind of experiences of gender euphoria. Uh, today, Saturday, that's what today is. We have, um, a circus show this evening and then another, um, poetry and pie poetry. And, like, food is a love language event later tonight. And then tomorrow there is a drag brunch. Um, sorry. A drag high tea. Too early for brunch. 3 p. m. and all week long over at QT Hotel, we've had, uh, drag performers singing in the lounge at Happy hour. And then we've had a few partner events with, um, there's a show on tonight at Ivy done by Rachel Atlas. Um, that's like a cabaret from people who work in or have worked in the sex work industry. Um, and then tomorrow night is mixed capital drag finals over at IV as well as a dance party. Biba. Um, and so, yeah, it's been a lot. Um, basically, all the art forms, the only one I feel like we're kind of missing is dance, um, in, like, a pure dance sense. And I think that's because with a couple of months. Notice venues where you can do dance are a little bit harder to book. Um, but we've got visual art here in the headquarters, and, yeah, we're pretty stoked with the kind of array. And just look at the coverage across the genres that we've seen and just a nice reminder that there are beautiful queer artists in all sectors. This is an amazing, um, space this hub. You've got artwork all throughout. Can you describe some of it? Uh, gosh, I can try. Um, so we've got some illustrations from, um, a member of the glamour phones who was illustrated what I believe is a number of people from the choir over the years, um, with some kind of pen and ink portraits, a couple of large format paintings. And, um, I think there's some pastels and oils in there. Some like illustrations, some zines. We've got some, um, soapstone carvings, some kind of collage work. Just a really nice variety. Which, um, was a really pleasant surprise to have people kind of come through. We just put an open call. That was like, Hey, we have a space. If you'd like to display anything, get in touch. Um and yeah, as expected, where artists came through and it's so diverse as well. I mean, there are so many kind of mediums and, um, ideas and visuals. Yeah, I think it's, um, this has been kind of a good exercise, and something across the festival we want to have is this is about celebrating queer art and queer artists, and your art doesn't have to be like, explicitly queer. Um, and I think that's something that's been interesting for some of the art forms. For instance, the circus show sold out quite quickly, and it's been really popular. We've realised that it's likely because there are a lot of circus performers who are queer. But circus as an art form isn't always queer. Um, and there's not always chances to kind of bring your whole identity to your art form. And so that's been interesting to see um, and give people space to kind of be like, Yes, I'm out and proud and this is also the art I do. And some people's art is explicitly queer. Some people's art is queer just because they are so you're using the word queer in a in a whole lot of ways, and it's even in the the title of the festival. Why that word? Um, honestly, because it's easier and shorter, um, than trying to kind of cover the range of identities. Um, I personally like the word because it has left space for me for my identity to kind of evolve and change. And it captures a lot of stuff that's around both your sexual orientation and also your gender identity and your expression and the way you move in the world. Um, and I I personally enjoy the word because it leaves space for things to change. Um, it's a really kind of nice catch all for a community, without having to come up with the exact words that describe how I feel about my gender and my sexuality, which, honestly, I'm not sure how I do. Um, ask me in a week I might have a different word for it. Um, and so we like the word for that because it is a nice catch. All, um, we enjoy that. It's kind of been and has been reclaimed from having been a slur. Um, and it's just a lovely It's a nice word that kind of says that implies a lot of things about the way you see the world and the way you move through the world without having to define it more than that and gives people space to kind of name their own identities. Yeah. How do you think it influences? Uh, one of the people that are coming to you in terms of, uh, they've got performances, productions they want to do, but also the audiences, when they see something like queer in the title Does that influence who comes to the performances? That's a great question. I would be super keen to, you know, see some data on that. Um, I think we've seen, um, just kind of anecdotally across a pretty broad generational range of people being like, Yes, this is exciting. Um, a lot of feedback we've gotten is I can't believe this didn't exist. Um, and then I submit to anyone who's attempted to organise a bunch of queers. You probably figure out why it hasn't existed. Um, yeah, I think it, um we've had questions for people about like, Can I come? I'm straight. Um, and I think that's kind of an interesting one to think about um, because I don't know that you would ask. Are you allowed to go to the ballet? If you're gay, Um, you know, Are you allowed to go to art that is either explicitly or just implied to be heterosexual? Um, yeah. I think there's definitely some people who are kind of like, Oh, queer. I still feel weird about using that, but I think, um, that's kind of the beauty of the community and having conversations about it as we all get to sort of decide what we want to do. Um, and yeah, it's just a fun word. Honestly, um, we didn't put as much, um, you know, trying to name the thing. It was we wanted something that really did what it said on the tin. You'd be really clear. This is a queer arts festival. Um, and yeah, we didn't really want to go further than that, Especially for the first time around where you're trying to explain. What's a new festival? Where did this come from? Yes, There's still a pandemic on how are we dealing with that? Um and yeah, I just decided to go with a really just not at all. Subtle name or brand name. It kind of does hark back to, uh I mean that this year is the 50th anniversary of Galib in New Zealand. Um I mean, there were things before 1972 but it really took off in 1972 and it was really blatant. And I think words like queer. I mean, it is completely blatant, and it is what it is. It is what it says it is. Um, one of the other things that happened in 1972 that that that they used performance as as a, um, a way of getting across political or social messages. Do you think, um, that still happens with queer performance today that it's all about kind of social messaging, political messages? Yeah. I mean, I think most art is about kind of reflecting on society and our place in it and how you feel about it, whether it's queer or not. Um, but I think it's interesting in a lot of queer art forms. Just existing visibly queer, um, is still a political statement, especially if you are going to deviate from the gender binary in any way, or if you're going to kind of mess with any of those sort of norms around. What does it mean to be gay or lesbian or to be, You know, any particular narrow branch of identity? Um and so, yeah, I think one thing that we talked about a lot and kind of starting this festival and a loose theme of the festival has been specifically around. Queer joy. Um, and I've been pondering a lot lately about the idea of kind of joy as an act of resistance and joy is a political act as well. There's a lot of, um, a lot of queer narratives tend to be rooted in trauma. Um, because there are traumatic experiences. But there is also really beautiful, happy, joyous ones, and I think it's important that we celebrate those and we celebrate those in ways that honour that that is also important art, um, that that is serious and deep and meaningful and poignant. And I think there's I mean, there's this thing across all the arts where you know comedies don't win Oscars. It's it's drama that's real art, and it's serious. Um, and I don't think that's true. I think that you can make just as much of a political statement with joy as you can with any other emotion. Um and so I guess that's a long way of saying that like, Yes, any art can be political existing as a queer person can be a political act. Um, and sometimes it can just be fun and silly, but I think one thing that I've enjoyed in, um, just recent years in kind of Wellington's art scene this is just me personally, is how much drag has kind of gone from, um, playing at the binary to just like, overt gender fuckery across the board. Um, and I really have enjoyed that and the way of just kind of pushing back against all of the norms we hold around genders, Um and yeah, just obliterating them in a way that's really fun to watch. And really interesting to get people kind of thinking about Oh, why why does it look uncomfortable? Why does this make me feel alive inside? Um, so, yeah, I think it's it's good to have space for political art, for joyous art, for all of the things. Um, yeah, just just picking up on the kind of theme of of Joy and fun. Um, I have a feeling that over two years of covid pandemic, um, we're all looking for a bit more, a bit more fun and joy. And I'm wondering, um, how has COVID-19 impacted on creating a festival, getting performances, going and also getting audiences in? Uh, it's hard. I mean, it's been hard for the arts for two years because, um when there has been funding to support, sometimes it's difficult to access. It's can be difficult to access for individual performers. Um, and you know, initial funding was kind of channelled through employers, which makes it really difficult if you're a sole contractor and if you're kind of doing art on the side. Um, so it's been hard to make art and to be a performer. Um, whether that's because shows got cancelled. Whether that's because distancing meant that you'd either have to quadruple ticket prices or just have really sad small shows. Um, and so there's been a lot of factors that have made it just really difficult to do art. Um, and I think we're still in the throes of a pandemic, but we're kind of changing the way we relate to it. Um and it's Yeah, it makes event planning challenging. One thing that was kind of nice about the festival is by coming together as kind of a group of us. We're able to share some of the organising around, you know, printing posters and having kind of larger scale marketing and doing things as a festival rather than individual events, to try to kind of by having a bunch of producers putting on things, hopefully getting a little bit more cross pollination across different communities. Um, but it's hard. I think people are definitely, um, you know, venturing back out. But many people are not, and that's very understandable. We're also seeing that people are definitely not booking tickets in advance. Um, a lot of people are kind of waiting to the day of which is great for them. Um is stressful for people who manage budgets. Um, but I think that's it's very true, is that we're kind of deciding what what does the world look like in a the reality where the pandemic is just part of our life now, and how do we navigate that? Um, and it makes events hard. It makes festivals hard, but it also makes an event happening Really exciting and magical. Um, because there have been so many cancellations and there have been so many, even just somebody getting sick and having to be swapped out. And it's just like it really impacts if you, you know, if you make your life in live art, Um, and I don't make my living in live art, but if you do that, it's really the pandemic has sucked. Um, And so that's part of what we want to do is just have a chance to be like, yes, you know, get back out, perform something, get in front of us audience again. Audiences have some joy in your life. Um, hopefully we can keep having more of it. Yeah, well, thinking about the future and thinking about, um, possibly, um um, year two of of this festival, Um, what are what are your thoughts? And, um do you Do you think there will be a festival next year? I love this Everyone. I mean, people asked this before this festival even started. And I was like, Let's see how the first one goes. Let's see if everyone survives. Um, but yes, we'd love to, um This was fun. Festivals are great celebrating. Queer art is great. Um, June this year was kind of an accident. Um, we So one of the shows in the festival, Too much hair, um, the other co-founder and I they're creating that show and that that show had a season booked at bats for last week of May 1st week of June. And so we were like, Let's do a Queer Arts Festival. Who knows what's gonna work out? We'll see. We'll have too much hair on. Maybe we get a couple of other events if we can get two or three and we can call it a festival and we can call our first year a success if we have, like, multiple events. And then everyone got really excited and like venues out of nowhere were contacting us to be like, Hello, We would like to be involved. Would you like a free space? Here's some money. Here is some product. Um, and the festival got larger, which is great. Um, and so we liked. I mean, June was nice because, yes, it aligns with pride. It aligned with the show. It was kind of felt like a ridiculous but not completely unreasonable amount of time to try to put something together. It was, in fact, ridiculous. But here we are. Um and so, yeah, we're thinking about what the future would look like. Another festival. Um, June is nice for pride. June is not nice for Wellington. Um, it's really hard to want to come to an eight or nine o'clock event if it's been dark for four hours. Um, and if it's been raining so yeah, the timing could change. Um, but the the nice thing about, like, planning in advance, it would be nice to, like, book out with as many venues as we could to have had enough plenty of time because part of the challenge of doing this with two or three months notice is you're kind of limited by either venues that don't book that far in advance or have empty space or, like, kind of filling in gaps. And so that meant we had some events on sort of what are weird nights for their sector, like Tuesday night comedy. Not super common. Um, and so being able to kind of plan ahead with more venues and, um, plan bigger lineups and you know, go to print with a with a paper programme in advance. Um, because we would have confirmed lineups with more advanced notice. Um, so yes. Currently, it would be nice if there would be another one. some of that depends on funding and getting other funders to come to the table, particularly if you want to kind of expand it and cover more things. Um, and that's that tension of keeping a festival viable for performers and affordable for audiences, which is a bigger conversation that I think we need to have as an art sector in a city about how we price tickets. But that's a different conversation. Um, so, yes, there will likely be one, perhaps at a more hospitable time of year, but also, I mean, I guess not trying to find a kind of a time of year when there isn't something else on or something else. Huge but trying to fill in the gaps of the year. So we'll see. Stay tuned. We're just, uh, about a day and a half away from the end of the festival. What are your biggest takeaways from from, uh, organising this time? Um, queer artists are great, like it's a delight to work with a whole bunch of people who are kind of sharing the same values and are excited about the same things and who believe that art is important and that it's not a luxury. But it's something that makes our lives and our cities more beautiful and worthwhile. So that's great. Um, I think it's been really exciting to see the number of people who people and businesses who came to us wanting to get involved. Um, I've organised other events where either things like getting sponsorship or trying to find spaces can can feel like pulling teeth. Or it feels like you're really struggling to get this happening. And we had people literally calling us up out of nowhere to be like, Hello. We would like to be involved. How can we help? UM, which has been really incredible, which kind of shows that there are a lot of people who care about art and artists in this town, even when it kind of feels like the systems don't um yeah, so that's been exciting. And just to see kind of audiences and like groups of artists like that, that magic that comes together during a show or during an event, um is just really nice. And these we had a a poet at one of the events the other night who said it was their first time reading at an explicitly queer event, which struck me as really interesting, particularly for poetry. Um, but yeah, that that place where you kind of in spaces that sort of start out from that assumption, Um, you get to have more interesting connections and conversations with people because you start from just more shared understanding, I guess. I don't know. It's just it's really lovely and wholesome to see queer artists performing and having a good time. And the audience is having a nice time. And honestly, I'm really looking forward to next week when I get to pay everyone and just, like, sit down for four hours, just like you get money and you get money and you get money to 70 something artists, which is kind of why we did this. And it's really exciting to, um, actually get to do that. That's amazing. And thank you so much for for putting on the festival and giving people the the the space to to perform and show their works. Um, yeah. I mean, honestly, thanks to people for coming and for people for making beautiful art so that we have something to share. Um, yeah, I guess if you want to be involved in future ones, slide into our D MS or inbox, we'll see. I don't know. Um yeah. Thank you. Now, sharing this wonderful hub as well we've got, um ans And I'm just going to go over and have a chat with the team at LA So luck. Luckily, it's a small space, because otherwise I'll be petting for a long time. And we have from Legans. Who do we have from Legans today? Will Hanson from legends and Roger Smith from so Will and Roger. Why was it important for to be here today? Well, it's great to show support for the Queer Arts Festival. Um, and it's a great opportunity for us to advertise what we do, uh, in front of us. Fairly sympathetic crowd. Um, and just to show some of the artefacts that we have, I'm looking at the table for inspiration. So, um, some copies of some of the artefacts and the things that we have in the archive. Um, a little bit of a PowerPoint presentation, Um, which people can sort of browse through and see the sort of work that we do and, um, sort of things that we collect and the things that we would like to have more of of people have in their attics or photos or whatever. Um, and really, just, uh, a chance to, um, get ourselves in front of the community. That's why it's important for us to be here today. So let's go to the table and will. Can you just take me through some of the the stuff that you've you've brought today? Oh, yeah. So, um, I've bought, uh, three different zines. We've got the zine That's just a free zine about leg ends, um, that people can just pick up and take away. And then there's the two volumes of the archives Liz scenes. Oh, and then I've got two stickers that say Smile off your Trans. They were the only ones I had left. And what about on the rest of the table and then on the rest of the table? What? What is what is this that we have here. Is this Just copies of, um, some of the things we have in the archive. So there are, um, pages from various, uh, queer magazines or news papers or letters that have been published in New Zealand over the years. Uh, what else? We got some great photos of various, um, protests and demonstrations around the place and also on the table. There's a book called 20 Years On. And it was, um, looking at homosexual law reform, I think. Was it 2000 and something? 2006. 2005? That's right. Yes. Correct. That's right. So it was put together by Alison Laurie Evans. Um, and there was a a conference and an exhibition held around that time as well. And this book, um, is of some of the papers that were given by such people as, um, Tim Barnett. Marion Street was talking Tony Simpson, Phil Parkinson to in Stone. Miriam. So So a lot of a lot of the big names in the community were giving papers at that conference, and it's great that they've been collected together in this booklet, which is available for sale. So I was talking to, uh, Jess before, and we're just mentioning about 1972 being the 50th anniversary of, um, gay liberation. And as we've got homosexual law reform 86. But back in 72 that's when gay liberation was just starting. Well, I know you've written quite a bit around about gay liberation in the 19 seventies. What is it like for you to kind of reflect back on the 19 seventies? Because, um, you're you're you're still quite young, aren't you? I mean, I'm 25 so reflecting back on, uh, the seventies for me. Well, I guess for me, it's just, um, feeling, um so grateful looking at what people have done and how hard people worked and what they put on the line to change things and feeling hopeful and wanting to continue on that legacy and wanting to find ways to emulate what they did back then and what we can learn. And, um, all of those kinds of things is is what I is what I think of. But I also like, uh, think about the difference what it was like to be a student back then versus what it's like to be a student. Now and the kinds of different challenges we face, too. Um, yeah, That a good thing, I. I just wonder like I mean, when I look back at the seventies, I mean, it's just such another country, isn't it? New Zealand. And you know what would have gay liberation? Been like, say, with social media with with smartphones, with the way that we're all interconnected nowadays, I think it would be ruined by infographics. I think I Yeah, I don't I don't know. That's a really interesting question. Um, I don't know. I think these are getting messages out more quickly. Um, I think rather than it being kind of a secret society, it would have been much more sort of public. Um, certainly as a way of sort of, um, rallying people, Um, for for the cause. Um, social media is great. It would have been totally different, I think. And maybe it wouldn't have taken then. Another 10, 14, 15 years for law reform. It might have. Actually, the the the mood might have been might have been such that, um, things might have happened a lot more quickly. Hm. Well, thank goodness for Hans and actually saving, uh, the images and documents and pamphlets and meeting notes from from from that time. Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel very grateful for legends, and I think maybe I've said this to you before, but when I was still in the closet and still at high school when I was googling gay history things, it was leg ends that was coming up. So, you know, it has It definitely feels very personal for me to be able to actually hold these materials. And I hope that people who are coming in off the street have that same kind of feeling of of community and of, um, of family and heritage when they see these things and is lag ans am I right in thinking Lagan are celebrating a special year this year? It is, Yeah. Um sorry. Will, uh so 30 years in its current incarnation is ans so that it's a charitable trust now and that's been going 30 years. But it's also 45 years since it was kind of formed. And, um, things were started to be collect together, which eventually became an uh so that's another, um, celebration that we are going to be marking this year in September with a an evening of of things about, um, Rainbow history that, uh, will involve legs and, um, some speakers from the past. Actually, that's the cool thing about the some of the stuff that we have here is this is stuff that people were collecting even before there was the resource centre. So even before the 45 years, there's people's scrapbooks and things and honouring that long legacy is a really cool thing to be able to do with some of the material here. And will you? You're quite heavily involved in that September event. Yeah, I was definitely involved in the in the, um, start of thinking about it. Um, I came up with the title out of the ashes because I didn't. Well, I didn't come up with it, but it was already on the website. Um, that, uh, Chris Parking and Phil Parkinson. Um wrote that title and wrote a piece about Legans history. And so I thought, calling the event that is a nice way to link to the work that they've done. And it's so dynamic. They did a really good job coming up with something so flashy about Phoenix rising out of the ashes and, uh, in in connection to an arson attack on la ans a few months after homosexual law reform in 1986. Um, and yeah. So, yeah, we wanna honour that history, honour the resilience of the archives. Um, all of those good things. Thinking about the history of leg ends, What are the biggest challenges facing leg ends now? Uh, I think I mean, I think money is a big one, and I fair fair to say that that I think, you know, we need we just need more resources there. There are some ambitious plans in place for digitising the collection and making it more accessible digitally. And so that's a big expense. Getting the website, getting the databases, getting the the digitization programme happening. So that's thing one. But thing two, it's curated, uh, and looked after by a really small team, a small board. Um, and then within that we've got the curators, um, uh, Linda Evans and, uh, Roger Swanson, who do the sort of hands on, um, what do they call it? A acquisition of things and the describing and the cataloguing of of of material. as it comes into the archive. But what we really need is is is somebody doing that on a if not a full time basis, a part time basis, but on a permanent basis, Preferably so that we've got, um, someone who's constantly looking at the collection and maintaining it and, um uh, being a point of contact when people want to access the, uh, the the collection, and that's really important. But again, that's expensive. Hiring qualified. Um, you know, uh, knowledgeable people in that area, uh, is isn't cheap. I mean, nor should it be cheap, to be honest. But, um, it's an expense. So we've got to raise money for that kind of thing, too. And it's an ongoing cost as well, because we want someone looking after it all the time, not just coming in for a couple of months and then going away and then coming back. You know, we need somebody there who is that point of contact all the time, and that links into I guess those are our practical concerns and challenges. But then that links into our, um, more abstract, I guess goals and our, um, about accessibility and about inclusion and about how we That's why events like this is so important because that allows us in a way that we don't have to spend much money to actually come in and look at the archive. But digitization will be a huge way of making things more accessible for people and bringing things out to people so they don't have to come all the way into Wellington into the National Library and do all that kind of intimidating stuff that can be intimidating for people. In my sense has been that over the last, what, 5, 10 years? There has been a real increase in, um, not just young people, but a lot of queer communities really interested in the past and wanting to make use of things. Like Have you found that as well that the the actual access requirements are are kind of going up I, I think Certainly interest in the archive and what it has to offer, uh, is going up. I know from, um the reports that that Roger and Linda do, uh, at the board meetings on people that have, um sent him queries or have wanted to visit the archive or wanted to use. It has definitely gone up. More and more people are doing their PhD research using, um, like, well, using material from the archive. Um, so definitely it's increasing over time. But to me, the very existence of the archive of an as as an archive for lesbian and gay and all the other parts of the of the alphabet. So, um, is really, um, significant and important, because it raises the question. Why do we need this archive? And the answer to that question is because for most of our history, uh, no one has been collecting this material. We couldn't rely on a public library or or the the National Archive to collect material which related to our history. And that's outrageous when you think about it, because our history is the nation's history is the world's history. So the fact that this exists because no one else was collecting it to somebody had to is, is a for me. It's a real reminder of the fact that, um, so much of our history is hidden or hasn't been preserved or is forgotten, and the existence of an archive is a way of trying to reopen those doors to remind ourselves of our history, to assert that we have a history that that needs to be explored and researched and talked about and celebrated. It was interesting you talking about specifically about kind of lesbian and gays and everyone else, and I know that the las name is lesbian and gay archives. I mean, is that Is that just from a time and a place when LA was formed? Because, I mean, it seems a bit narrow now, and I guess does it mean that other voices aren't heard in the archive? Well, I think it's a really interesting question because I definitely found that when I first joined Legans, I remember beginning to reach out to other trans people and them rejecting me, asking them to donate things or to buy things to put in the archive. Um, because they don't feel represented by the name and they're used to organisations that do have limiting names, not making space for them. Um, and I think I guess in terms of thing about it is a time and a place I don't want to be too harsh because I wasn't there. I don't know, but I feel like We did have trans stuff in the collection and it wasn't a good thing that it was, you know, named such a limiting thing, even if it was also just what people were doing at the time. Um so I think I think it's a really important thing that we look at because it's not just a name, it's about making a statement of who we're here for. And that reminds me of like what Roger was saying just before about the importance of our archives and actually like the fact that denial of our history is is used to oppress us and is used by turfs and trans phobes and queer phobes of all different kinds to try and undermine us and undermine our our right to life and our struggles and all of those kinds of things. And I do think that we are seeing a rise in anti trans rhetoric and I think broader, anti queer rhetoric, too. Looking at what's going on in the States right now is really scary, but that's also kind of stuff happening here. So I think that our archive is is you know, this information, it's so important that it be kept safe and it's so important that we kept in community hands. I think that's where the the name it's all. It's all part of that. It's all standing up and saying We're here and we have a history and we've always been here and all of that kind of thing and it absolutely starts from the very top of it from that name, doesn't it? And and kind of comes down from that, So we definitely. But we definitely in saying all that. We definitely have some beautiful collections that are not just lesbian and gay collections, and I'm just looking here at a letter written by Sandy Gauntlet, who was a absolutely incredible trans activist and who was involved and set up the Gay Liberation Front and all of those kinds of things and all of those histories that, you know, me being a researcher as well. I wouldn't be able to access any of that information if it wasn't for La ANS and the same people who made the name La Ans. So you know I can't be too mean about it, and I guess it's also not to diminish the you know, um, lesbian and Gay um, archives as well. And it must be a very hard thing when you've got an organisation that's been around for a long time to actually kind of move as our, um, ideas about identity and the words we use changes over time, doesn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. And so, yeah, I definitely don't mean it in a in a mean way, because I do think, Yeah, yeah, I. I can't articulate it as well as you just did, but I agree with you. But also so having said that and I don't mean to finish your sentence well, but, um, it definitely it's, you know, it needs to change, you know, the time for a change of the title, describing what it is that we are and what we do, um, is is well and truly here. In fact, it's probably passed, but it's not a problem which is exclusive to New Zealand, and other archives around the world have also, um, risen to the challenge of finding a name which is inclusive of all the people that we represent. So, um, that challenge is certainly definitely on for us here in New Zealand. And, um, some suggestions about a change in the name would actually be really useful if people have any, Um then let us know. Well, this is a really lovely segue into the kind of international space. And I know roger that you are one of the founding members of a very special, uh, group. Yeah. So the group I, I have to read it because it's, um it took us quite a bit of time in the very first, uh, meeting that we had a zoom meeting at the beginning of the year to agree. Try to get an international group of people to agree on anything but to agree on the name, what we were going to be called and then agree on what it was that we were going to be doing. Um, you'd think it's almost impossible, but actually, we achieved it. And so the name the official name is it's the International committee on LGBT Q Plus History months. The mission statement is I'll just quickly get to this too. The mission of the International Committee on LGBT Q Plus History months is to share knowledge to support existing LGBT Q plus History Month projects and to encourage new LGBT Q plus history months around the world. And so this starts from an idea, um, that a guy called Rodney Wilson in the US had and that was to have a whole month celebrated nationally, not just in your city or your state, but the whole of the US. Looking at, um, Queer history devoted to queer history and for it to be an annual event. And since 1994 he's achieved that, Uh, there's been a month devoted every year to queer history. Fantastic. And so his mission was to try and recruit as many other countries around the world to have a to have national months of celebration, uh, for queer history. And, um, So far, there are the likes of the UK, which has had one every year since 2005. Uh, some of the constituent parts of the UK have their own history. Months like Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have their own history months as well annually, and they have since the mid two thousands. Uh, and then there are other countries to, um, like Australia. Um, has had one since 2016, uh, Canada, Finland, Italy, and kind of what I find surprising is places like Hungary have had every year since 2013 have had a month celebrated nationally to explore and to to, you know, promote, um, queer history. Now, I find it extraordinary about hungry. When you think of the political situation there, it has a very right leaning government. And they've introduced a number of, uh, homophobic, um, rules and regulations which make it very hard if you're a AAA member of the rainbow community over there to exist, let alone enjoy life. And yet, every year they've had this month and they had one, I think it was April this year, um, under really difficult circumstances. And and yet, um, it was really inspirational because they did it. Uh, and in fact, um, at the end of the month, uh, instead of having a big end of year function celebrating the fact that they had their history month, they decided to do a mass protest about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And so they devoted that part of the of the history month to, um, some political activism on behalf of other people elsewhere, Which is kind of amazing. Really. So, um, so that sort of thing is is is really inspiring for me. And then, uh, just this year, Cuba for the first time, has had its first, uh, Rainbow History Month. And when you think of Cuba again, they've got lots of human rights issues going on there, particularly for rainbow people. Uh, and yet they have managed to have a month devoted to, um looking at all sorts of aspects of rainbow history in Cuba. Fantastic. In fact, it was the first, uh, Rainbow History Month in a Spanish speaking country. Um, which is extraordinary. So they got they Even the head of Spain. Spain doesn't have one yet. And so I I'm thinking, Well, if these countries where actually life is is someone, uh, part of the rainbow community can be really hard if they can have a whole month publicly acknowledging and celebrating and, um, promoting, uh, rainbow history in their country. Well, why can't we, um, and we've had a few kind of fledgling attempts, and we do have lots of pride events around the country, but it's not quite the same as having a month devoted to queer history, which, um, it would be amazing if we could get off the ground in New Zealand. Maybe sometime next year have a forum for, um, people who are doing academic research like will, um, but also have, um, exhibitions. And, uh, uh, things like this displays, uh, and, uh, goodness knows what else to promote Rainbow history and the the the, um, celebration of it in New Zealand. So if anyone is interested in doing that, uh, get in touch with me through or someone else in LA and we'll see what we can set up because I think that it's the The more public we can be, the more publicly facing, uh, we can be and proud of our history, uh, and really actively work to, um, surface this history, uh, so that people can see it. Uh, II, I think for better, it must be amazing to be in a group where, yes, there are shared experiences. But even the wording used to describe sexual and gender identities must be so different across all those different countries. And the kind of legal and political landscape must be so different. And the kind of events that people are putting on must be so different as well. Must be quite, um quite invigorating. It is invigorating and really inspiring really inspiring. And I am extremely grateful that all the, um, the meetings, the board meetings that we have are conducted in English. Um, but when you consider that most of the members are from countries that do not speak English as a first language Um, II I I'm I'm I feel incredibly privileged in a very privileged position to just sit back and think, Oh, this is I can understand every word that, uh whereas other people are managing are managing and succeeding brilliantly to articulate. Um, you know all sorts of things in a language which isn't their first language. And it makes me think Oh, you know, I've got English and a little bit of German. But to have such fluency, you know, we are now on the 50th anniversary year of, um, deliberation in New Zealand. I'm wondering just as a final wrap up question. Where do you see as being in 50 years time in terms of rainbow queer communities? I hope by then we don't have capitalism is abolished by then my hope and then and then I see a much brighter I. I hope that uh, some kind of indigenous led revolution. Decolonize New Zealand. No longer in New Zealand. I don't know what that means me being, but I'm just willing to follow the lead and be a foot soldier and and whatever that looks like, Um, so that's what I'm hoping happens. Something big like that. I think we'll summed it up perfectly on the add to that. Um, uh, yeah, except that I would hope that in 50 years time Queer history, Rainbow History, Trans history is acknowledged. And as as, um celebrated and is out there as white Colonial history is Really, I think that if we can achieve that in 50 years time, then awesome, it's maybe more realistic than I would. And the last word I'm going to go back to Jess because Jess has actually brought all of us together today with the, um, Queer Arts Festival. Jess, in 50 years time. Uh, where do you think Rainbow queer communities are going to be? Um, I'm just gonna echo will's call for revolution. That sounds great. Sign me up for that. I mean, I just like to be a nice, you know, elder, queer marvelling at the kids these days and how great they're doing. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1970s ; 2000s ; 2020s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Australia ; COVID-19 (coronavirus) ; COVID-19 face mask ; Canada ; Chris Parkin ; Coming Up ; Courtenay Place ; Cuba ; Events ; Gay Liberation Front ; Gay Liberation Front Rotorua ; German ; Homosexual Law Reform ; International Committee LGBT History Months ; Ireland ; Italy ; Jess Ducey ; Job ; Lesbian and Gay Archives of New Zealand (LAGANZ) ; Linda Evans ; London ; Marion Street ; Open Collective ; People ; Phil Parkinson ; Queer Arts Festival 2022 (Wellington) ; Rodney Wilson ; Roger Smith ; Roger Swanson ; Rotorua ; Sandy Gauntlett ; Scotland ; Space ; Spain ; Stuff ; The Archive is Alive (zine) ; The Closet ; The Glamaphones ; The Tiwhas ; Tim Barnett ; Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism (TERF) ; Twenty Years On: Histories of Homosexual Law Reform in New Zealand ; Ukraine ; Urban Dream Brokerage ; Wales ; Wellington ; Will Hansen ; Youth ; access ; accessibility ; accident ; activism ; archives ; artist ; arts ; attack ; audience ; ballet ; beauty ; binary ; board ; branding ; burlesque ; cabaret ; capital ; capitalism ; celebration ; change ; circus ; closet ; collage ; collective ; comedy ; coming out ; community ; conference ; connect ; connections ; conversation ; dance ; dance party ; data ; demonstrations ; denial ; difference ; drag ; drama ; dream ; exercise ; exhibition ; expression ; face ; family ; fear ; food ; forum ; fun ; funding ; fundraising ; future ; gay ; gender ; gender binary ; gender euphoria ; gender identity ; glamour ; government ; hair ; heritage ; heterosexual ; history ; homosexual ; honour ; hope ; hotel ; human rights ; identity ; inclusion ; individual ; inspiration ; joyfulness ; knowledge ; language ; law ; legacy ; lesbian ; letter ; liberation ; library ; love ; magazines ; march ; marketing ; media ; meetings ; music ; news ; opportunity ; organisation ; organised ; organising ; other ; pandemic ; performance ; plan ; poetry ; posters ; programme ; pronouns ; protest ; public library ; public service ; queer ; queer joy ; rainbow ; reading ; research ; resilience ; resistance ; resource ; revolution ; rhetoric ; road trip ; sad ; school ; scrapbook ; sex ; sex work ; sexual orientation ; sexuality ; singing ; smartphones ; smile ; social ; social media ; spaces ; sponsorship ; stickers ; straight ; success ; support ; teeth ; tension ; time ; top ; touch ; trans ; transgender ; trauma ; trust ; understanding ; urban ; values ; venues ; website ; work ; zines. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/queer_arts_festival_2022.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1093062. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.