The title of this recording is "LBGTI+ education forum". It is described as: Audio from the LBGTI+ education forum, held during Wellingtons Pride festival at St Andrews on the Terrace on 27 February 2018. It was recorded in St Andrew's on the Terrace, 30 The Terrace, Wellington on the 27th February 2018. This is a recording of an event and features the voices of David Pegram, Grant Jones, Josh Espino, Katy Hodgson, Kirsty Farrant, Neo Kenny, Ri Comer, Richard Arnold and Tabby Besley. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 1 hour and 6 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the event. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Audio from the LBGTI+ education forum, held during Wellington's Pride festival at St Andrews on the Terrace on 27 February 2018. The event was organised by Rainbow Wellington. A special thank you to Rainbow Wellington, St Andrew's and all of the participants for allowing us to record and share this forum. The content in the recording covers the decades 1970s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: The abstract summarizes an LBGTI+ education forum recorded during Wellington's Pride festival at St Andrew's on the Terrace on February 27, 2018. Organized by Rainbow Wellington, the event sought to address education-related issues concerning young people within the LGBTI+ community through personal and organizational perspectives. The forum featured several speakers with diverse backgrounds and experiences. David Pegram, a long-standing deputy principal at Newlands College, expressed that changes in schools regarding LGBTI+ issues are evident, yet many challenges persist. Pegram described a dichotomy in the experiences of Newlands College students, with positive aspects such as an accepting environment and a supportive diversity group, contrasted with negative experiences like derogatory language, inadequate teacher responses to bullying, and issues with bathrooms and changing rooms. Kirsty Farrant, the Rainbow coordinator at a union head office, discussed the hurdles schools face in adapting to provide more inclusivity, such as dilemmas regarding uniforms and bathrooms. Farrant mentioned the overwhelming sense among educational institutions that they lack support for these transformations and are reinventing the wheel without much guidance. Tabby Besley, founder of Inside Out, highlighted the organization's efforts to establish support systems like queer-straight alliances in schools across New Zealand. Besley emphasized the ongoing need for government support for organizations like Inside Out, which significantly contribute to creating safe school environments for LGBTI+ youths. Josh Espino, founder of a private queer-straight alliance at their former high school, recounted their experience navigating a school environment that was dismissive and corrective of LGBTI+ issues. Espino's initiative aimed to provide a safe space for rainbow youth to support each other amidst a culture of bullying and suppression. Neo Kenny and Ri Comer, both student leaders of ultraviolet groups at their respective schools, shared their perspectives on fostering inclusivity and pride within their institutions. They touched on the importance of school events that promote loud and visible support for the LGBTI+ community and methods for creating safer spaces in educational settings. Katy Hodgson, a previous student and current art teacher, conveyed the challenge of balancing one's role as an authority figure with the need to be a supportive ally to LGBTI+ students. The panel discussed the value of allies within educational staff and the influence of visible support from educators on young LGBTI+ individuals. The forum concluded with an opportunity for attendees to engage in a dialogue with the panelists, raising varied issues from accessible education resources to the integration of inclusive practices in intermediate and primary schools, highlighting the continued need for community support, advocacy, and policy change. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Um, this is the Pride Festival Education forum. We've been organised, organised by, uh, Rainbow Wellington. But with the great participation of all of these wonderful people who I'm going to introduce you to in a moment. The idea behind this is to air some issues from personal perspectives from organisational perspectives from your perspectives, um, about education and, uh, young people and LGBT QI a plus. Um, So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna introduce the speakers that we have. Um and then after that, they're gonna hand the microphone alone along and address you each for a few minutes. After that, we're gonna have a big talk together about the issues that have come up. We'll hand a microphone around, um, so that you can ask questions and be heard. OK, so I'm Richard Arnold. I'm the chair of Rainbow Wellington, chair of the board. We're at, uh, Wellington's falling over lobbying and network and socialising, um, network and all, uh, events like this are very much part of what we like to do to to bring issues for discussion. Um, we have David Pegram here, who was born in London and has taught for three years in the West Indies 10 years in London and for the past 30 years, has been at Newlands College and deputy principal since 2000. Next to him is Kirsty Farran, the rainbow coordinator at the PPTPPT, a union head office. Um next to her is Tabby Beazley, who is the national coordinator and founder of Inside Out, which is a national charity that works to give young people of minority sexualities, genders and sex characteristics across a a sense of safety and belonging in their schools and communities. Next to Kirsty, we have Josh. Uh, Josh founded a private QS a group a super Ultra Rainbow alliance, six years ago. While they were in Year 10. They have now graduated but still support the group for Rainbow Youth. Um, that attend their old high school next to Josh. We have re She is currently ultraviolet at Wellington High School and is in year 12, and this will be her second year running the club as well as running debating at Wellington High. Then we have the, uh uh they're currently a leader of the ultraviolet group at Wellington High, and they previously started, uh, a QS a straight alliance at Queen Margaret College. OK, so now it's gonna be over to you to say whatever it is you'd like to say within a few minutes. OK, so we'll start with David. They're just gonna hand the microphone along. Um, when I thought about what I wanted to, um, say here today, the title came into my mind of, um, in schools. Everything's changed and nothing's changed. Now I just want to pursue that theme of Everything's changed and nothing's changed. We have a diversity group at New College. Two of our students are here today, Anna here and Natalie. So they'll keep me honest in terms of what I'm going to say. And we meet Monday on a lunch time. And yesterday lunchtime, I said, Look, I've been invited to this forum, uh, tomorrow night, and I'd like your perspective on what you think is happening in schools at the moment. From an LGBTI Q perspective, whiteboard divided it into two. on the left hand side, we put what's good at new college at the moment and on the right hand side. Um, what's not so good? And I left it over to them. Then we had a red pen and a blue pen. Uh, they filled in the what's good side within three minutes and took 27 minutes to fill out the what's Not good? Um, side. And I thought I'd just tell you I I'd share with you what they think their perspective of what a college education for LGBTI Q kids are like. At the moment. The top of their list for what's good is that there are chilled students at school, and that was their words chilled, um, students. And they contradicted that later on. And they said there was no bullying. They like the fact we've got a QS a. So we've got a Queer Straight Alliance. And, uh, for those of you that don't know, that means it's an open forum, an open group. It's public publicised across the school. It's a blend of queer and straight students, um, who meet together to push the frontiers forward. Um, they said our school was accepting. They like the fact that we've got We're very relaxed about uniforms. So although we're very strict on uniform itself, we're completely relaxed about which parts of the uniform, uh, students wear. So you can. We would have traditionally had a boy's uniform and a girl's uniform, and now it's just a complete a complete bed. Wear what you like. As long as you're wearing uniform, you can wear what were traditionally the boys bottoms and the girls tops or or whatever. Um, they love the they said they like the fact that, um, we're accepting of whatever name students want to be called. And so our administration systems within the school allow, um, for a student to have a given name, but also to have a preferred name. And those can be in contradiction to each other in terms of gender identity. And they like the fact that we had a diversity group running at school and that they did in three minutes and then the other 27 minutes, some of which is a bit of a contradiction, was into, um, this derogatory language in the school. It's all around. It's something they meet. Um, every day. There are still put downs in the school from other students. Teachers don't take action, um, on those put downs so they're ignored within a classroom situation. Um, bathrooms and changing rooms are the same nightmare as they were 50 years ago within schools for our LGBTI kids. Uh, one of them said, um, I'm in year 12. Now, I no longer have to do PE I no longer have to be in the changing rooms. That was my decision to come out this year because I couldn't before. Um, at that time, um, they don't like the fact that the staff keep calling them. He and she and they'd like their own pronouns. Um, and they say that people still don't understand within the school and that there is still a huge amount of education to be done. Sorry, that was more than two minutes. Hi. Um, I'm Kirsty Farran. One of my roles is to coordinate the Rainbow Task Force at PPT. A. It's a small part of my job, but it's a part of my job that I enjoy the most. And within that role, um, one of the things I do is travel the country and go and visit schools and deliver workshops about making the school more inclusive. Um, I guess what I want to talk about really is my experience of doing that. I was a teacher at Newlands College before I started this job, so I know David quite well, and I know Newlands College quite well. Um, but what I wanted to talk about was my experience visiting other schools and the messages that I get back from schools when I go to do a workshop and probably the biggest hurdle I think schools are facing at the moment or that they feel they're facing at the moment is every school feels like it's reinventing the wheel. And it's struggling with making the same decisions and the same, um, kind of organisational choice around things like uniform toilets, changing rooms. And there's a feeling from many schools that they're unsupported in some of those decisions. So things like, for example, toilets are a really expensive thing. If you want to change them in your school and do it, um, in a you know, completely safe way, Um, and therefore it becomes something that's often done, uh, as an add on or when you're redoing your school or something like that. It's not something that's necessarily easily changed in some schools. Um, many schools face challenges around, Um, I get actually, the other thing I should probably say, is that the workshops that I do generally are in, um, either girls schools or Co-ed schools. I think in the two years I've been involved, we've been to two boys schools, which I think is kind of interesting in itself. Um, but schools are also starting to face challenges and questions about the actual nature of single sex schooling. Why do we have boys, schools and girls School is a girls school still a girls school if it now has trans male students in it. And what does that mean in terms of enrollments within the school? From a legal perspective, Um, as students come through. And I guess the The thing that kind of warms my heart when I go to all these schools is that although schools feel like they're struggling, they're genuinely trying to do the right thing for the young people. The reality is so that there are some teachers who haven't quite caught up with the changes. Um, and, um, I'm always interested. Every single school I go into the evaluation at the end. There's always at least one teacher who puts one. It's not at all relevant to me this workshop, and I find that really hard to believe because they're working with teenagers. Of course it's relevant to them. So I think, you know well, I work for a union that represents teachers. The reality is there are some teachers in this area who are really slow to catch up and and are struggling to see what they should be doing. But I feel a sense of hope because schools are working through some of these processes Tato and Te Bisley from inside out. Uh, so I was very lucky when I was, um a Well, my first high school that I went to was, um, very homophobic environment. Luckily for me, I was only there for a year. And then I moved to the first school in New Zealand that had a quest straight alliance in Nelson at NA College. And for me, as a young person, that was an amazing experience. This was back in 2000 and seven. so to have that group in my school that kind of affirmed my identity and let me know who I was was OK, uh was incredible. But it was a very rare experience at that time. Very few, um, schools in the country had anything kind of like that. Um, So kind of my experience has been coming from having that, um, as a young person at school and knowing what it felt to have that, um and then supporting lots of other schools in Nelson, Um, initially to also start those groups. Um, And then after I finished school, we started to get lots of requests from other people all around the country. Kind of saying, Why does Nelson have the support? What about the rest of the country? Um, how do we get these groups in our school? And that's kind of what motivated me to start inside out. So originally, um, the idea was very much focused on, um, quest, alliances and wanting to that every school in New Zealand should have a group like that for students. Um, that that was a really powerful way that we could make a change. Um, we've now been going for five years, and so over that time, we've kind of expanded that vision and kind of looked at, um, there are so many different ways that we can make schools inclusive and safe environments for young people in our community. Um, and as Chrissie kind of touched on lots of schools or some schools, particularly religious schools and boys schools. Um, are gonna take a longer process often or like, aren't always ready for a group straight away. So it's other steps that might need to come first for that to be enabled. Um, that's not a structural at all. There are also lots of, um, boys and religious schools that do have these groups or are taking, um, changes. A lot of it will come back to the school staff and the senior leadership, Um, unfortunately, and kind of the culture of that school in the first place and whether the students feel safe enough to talk about their experiences or to like, if it's a safe enough environment for them to challenge those kind of systems. Um, so inside out, we are a national organisation, and we do a lot of, um, all sorts of work. We kind of, um, the place that people come to for anything around schools and rainbow issues. So, um, resources. So, uh, we've got one on studying and strengthening rain diversity group. Uh, we put out a resource on making school safer for trans and gender diverse, um, young people, which we sent, um, two free copies to every secondary school in New Zealand last year. And a lot of those schools actually came back and ordered more copies to distribute around their staff, which was really awesome. And I think a lot of the time now, especially looking back since when I was at high school, and it was, like, very rare for this to be talked about. Um, my school was kind of this one off to now. Look at where things have come over the last. Um, just the last five years since since I has been going, um, there's so much more kind of support and willingness from schools to to engage. Um, not all the time. Not all the time, by any means. There's still a long way to go for lots of them as well. Um, but a lot of them are really grateful to be having this kind of material and and for for someone to be able to give them that kind of guidance or like, are looking for workshops like what? The PPT. A offer? What? Inside out offers. Um, so I think for me one of the biggest issues is actually the kind of lack of support from government to get behind organisations like inside out. Um, because what we're doing really is making sure schools are safe so that our young people are continuing to live. Um, if their school is not a safe place for them to be who they are, that's gonna be really detrimental to their mental health. Um, yeah, so for me, I'm just kind of really frustrated. Now there's like there's clear demand from schools from students. Why the government not coming in to really kind of come behind that and support resource our work? Um and also, I think, as you touched on, there's a lot of this, like every school thinks that they have to kind of figure things out for themselves. Um, when it's not really like they come and talk to us, we'll be like it's very easy, like put up a new sign or like I don't know, there's lots of kind of things. So if there was some kind of like template policies or things like that, and like endorsed by the Ministry of Education in particular, I think that would be really helpful moving forward. Um, we did work with them last year on an inclusive guide for schools around LGBTI students. So that's really awesome to come from the Ministry of Education. But at the same time, that process was really frustrating to work on them. Work on it with them, um, because most of it was doing stuff like linking to our resources, which they wouldn't fund. Um, and which we're out of print of and all this kind of stuff. It's like, OK, so you're using our work to make yourselves look good and look like you're doing something. You're not actually supporting the work. So that's kind of my little thing. And the last reason I brought along is our latest one, which is on legal rights for young people with minority, um, sexualities and genders at school. And so we get a lot of questions from young people who are experiencing discrimination in their schools. Whether that's, um, issues around like, the more common things we hear about tends to be like toilets and uniforms and that kind of stuff, um, also things like, uh, I wasn't allowed to do my speech on homophobia. Um, even though that fit the assignment just because my teacher didn't like that as a topic or, um, I got told off for wearing, like, a rainbow badge on my bag, Like all these kind of, like, miniscule things that are really actually acts of homophobia, biphobia and transphobia in our schools, often coming from staff. So, um, this kind of now exists as something that young people can, um, take as an external resource to their school and say, actually, these are my rights. And we worked on this, um, with community law. So it's kind of based in the law. Cool. I got a lot. I could say I'll pass it on. Thank you. Hi. Um, I'm Josh. Uh, I've been running my private group at my old high school Wellington College for six years now. Um, I graduated two years ago, so I don't actually know what it's been like since I left because I left and I did not go back because it was so bad. Um, but my experience with homophobia and bullying at school was quite bad, and I felt that nobody really paid attention to it up until either It made the school bad look bad or it made people realise like, Oh, this is a problem that we need to fix. So when I was in year 10 and I realised that nobody didn't, like, didn't really care about all the all the boys and the, um the trans girls at that high school Wellington College is an all boys school, but there are a few a few girls in there, but they can't come out because it's such a terrible place. Um, and I started, um, my group because nobody else was doing anything and it was private It. I started it outside of school grounds and really it it was just to make sure that everybody was safe and people had someone to talk to. And there were people that were that were higher up in school that could do something about it. And some teachers were there for us. It was awesome. Um, some teachers weren't. I remember somebody that was high up in the school when I was trying to run. Um, the day of silence, I was told that I was only allowed to print out 10 posters to a two hour promote the day of silence and I think you told me that it was, like, not ok for them to tell me that they only that they were only allowed to that. They told me that I was only allowed to put up 10 posters. So what I did, because I want to stick with the 10 posters. I went to the library and I printed out 10 really big, really bold and really out their posters, and I stuck them everywhere throughout the school. And I gave people little stickers, um, on the day just to show their support. Um And then there were people who were showing their support because they only wanted to not speak to anybody for the whole day. But, um, yeah, it's just it's It's been a journey for all the students that have gone to Wellington College because we just don't feel heard, Uh, and nothing that we ever complain about to people. It doesn't get solved. And things just keep escalating to this point where you just don't want to say anything and for like, a whole six months, I didn't tell anybody about all of my bullying, but after a while I was like, You know what I'm just gonna throw it out there because it's kind of important. Um, but yeah, I just I founded the group on the basis that, uh, it is a trust tree. It is a safe space. Everybody climbs and nobody falls. And that is my look on all walks of life because I don't want anybody to fall out of a tree. I want everybody to get to the top, no matter how difficult things get. How do we pull that up, like on the spot? Good luck. Cheers, sweetie. Um, I'm I currently attend Wellington High School, and I've been running the QS a ultraviolet there for This is the second year now, and I'm kind of the main coordinator and plant I do all the like book work or the legal work or the planning things out, writing things out, and so that's been pretty successful. We've had a, like, has a lot more accepting of, I guess, LGBT students. Because we have no uniform. We have. It's coed. Um, we have a really open senior staff. Like I'm like mates with all the deputy principals and the principal, like, I make them coffee and whatnot. So it's really nice to have, like, an open relationship with them. And I guess the biggest thing that we're trying to focus on as a school is both promoting, um, like, quite out loud pride instead of, um, you know, closeted pride and trying to make our school like the safest place it can possibly be. We've done a lot of work with Tabby, and we've done a lot of work with the rest of the inside out team and like, Conor and whatnot. And so we're trying, I think, now, to promote, um, where you created an event a couple of years back called out loud. It was kind of an alternative to day of silence, because you're like, Day of silence is great, all right? And what not and showing solidarity to, like, LGBT movement or what not, But how about we just the exact opposite, and, like, make a whole day of it, make it really loud, make it really fun, Like, start selling me and we raise money for inside out, which we'll be doing again this year. So hit us up. Um, and so that's kind of the goal, as I can, uh, just our school event and throughout running ultraviolet. It just provides a safe space every Thursday lunchtime where you know all your groups can come and hang out and we can have lessons. We do a bit of sex, ed. We do a lot of, um, like talking about LGBT people in politics or like disabled LGBT people. And so it's kind of just like highlighting all the issues that we should address. And like all the inclusiveness that needs to happen, I think what we want to do this year is helping other schools in our area. So places like Wellington, East Coast College or Wellington College itself just to try and get, um their inclusiveness is almost like not as probably even better than Wellington highs, which is proving to be really difficult. But we we have the opportunity to work with Tabby. We have the opportunity to work with, you know, like pride and like, um, Wellington organisation. So yeah, really excited about that? I'm super busy right now. It's gonna It's gonna be fine, but yeah. Um, I'm I go to Wellington High now, and I have been there for almost a year. Maybe, um, it's really good. Like the teachers at the start of the year asked pronouns and like, preferred names and you can have preferred names on the roll, and it's really good. But, um, before that, I went to Queen Margaret College, which wasn't so good. Um, what I'm gonna be talking about is the the QS a which I started, Um, so, after years of years of previous students before me trying to get it, um, they would not allow it. It was specifically the principal, um, as well as the senior staff and, like, lots of them were on board, but the principal just wouldn't allow it. So I had to go to Tabby who, um, talked to community law and was just and they told us like, OK, that's not legal. So we got a letter from them who we showed to our principal and the senior staff, and they were like, OK, fine. But here are the rules, and the rules were, um, had to be seniors only because what if the young ones thought they were gay? Um, it had to be called the Diversity group, which is fine. Um uh, word of mouth only. No posters up, no Facebook presents. You can only tell people about it. Um, not in the notices. Nowhere. Which we weren't too happy about. Um and it had to be held in the council's office, which is really small, and it also made us feel like it was something to be fixed, which obviously it isn't. So, um, that was a struggle for a while. And, um, it only got fixed when the principal left Ju just this year. So now they've got a new principal who's really good, but, um, those were the struggles at Queen Margaret's, and the teachers were all all right about it, like I emailed them so with my pronouns and names saying, Hey, this is what's up. And they were all pretty good about it as well as the students. But, um, I know several students in the years above and below me who were bullied out of Queen Margaret's because they were LGBT, especially Trans, and it's getting better. But there's still ages to go. And that's Yeah, that was a fantastic array of, uh, inputs here from, um, teachers and organisers and, of course, people living through recent times. Um, it's an It's an unimaginable change for me to listen to how New Zealand schools have changed over the past decades. I was lucky enough to go to Burnside High in in, um in Christchurch. And Robin Duff was my English teacher. And so he was chair of the PPT A or whatever. The president of the PPT a, um, an out gay man. And this was in the 19 seventies, Um, and he was someone who took young LGBT students under his wing way back then. But of course, so many. And I include myself among the, uh, we went out, we were too terrified, even even with this very friendly, wonderful person there to support us. So it's fantastic to hear there are organisations now self organised, um, within schools. But as we heard, there's still a long way to go. All right, so now it's time to hear from everyone who's come. So what we're gonna do now is I'll I'll just hand this microphone around. You can direct your questions or comments to the entire entire panel or to, uh, particular people. If you've got a question that you'd like to ask to someone specifically. So if someone does have a question just put your hand up now and I'll come and hand you the microphone. Yes. Hello. Um, I was just wondering if there were any specific things when you establish queer straight alliances or queer advocacy groups that were easier to do. And then things or that tend to be done quite quickly versus things that if people seem to keep putting roadblocks on, especially in the long term. But also in the short term, uh, roadblocks. Um, there was a There was a lot of roadblocks when I was organising my one because everybody would be like, Why are you all in that room like you? A lot of people would be like, Why are you all inside the library like meeting room? That that's really gay. And I was like, Well, that's the point. I mean, we're we're trying to do something about it, or people would be like nobody actually cares. And it's like, Well, people cared enough to kick you out of the room. So we're here now. Um, other roadblocks walking around school was a roadblock. You at my school, you couldn't really walk around and keep your head up. Because if you did, if you made eye contact with the wrong person. You are in so much trouble. Um, and some of the easy things to get around was just staying in class or like staying after, for me, at least, was staying after class and talking to your teacher and being like, Oh, I'm being bothered by this person. And then sometimes it would get sorted out. Sometimes it would go into the trash, and other times it would just, like, disappear completely. Um, but yeah, it was It's kind of difficult. Kind of. Yeah, um, something that was really easy was getting people along because apparently there's heaps of LGBT people at Queen Margaret's, um, but then the the hard thing was getting teachers on board, um, who were willing to put in the time to supervise or help out young LGBT students. How? How often you have to get the big legal stick out like you did with Queen Margaret. Um, fortunately, I think that's the only time it doesn't make clean Mars look good. Um, it has it has come close. Another. Um, I may have sent it recently. Someone too. Actually, I can't remember. Um, yeah, but now we've got that guide, which will hopefully kind of mean it won't get to that point where we need to have a a letter directly to the school. Kind of saying and so our our process after which we haven't had to do. But, um, if they had denied that after that kind of legal opinion, we would have been supported, um, neo and the school, the students to take it to the Human Rights Commission. So that's kind of what we would offer a school in that situation. Um, yeah, going back to the the question. I think it's really, um, dependent on the school itself, like it's and the student, too. Like everybody's experience is different and every school is so different. So for some schools, like starting a group might be a really easy thing. But getting, um, the teachers to use the right pronouns might be really, really difficult. Um, yeah, so I think. And I think, too, if we look at different parts of our community. Um, for example, a gay student who's very confident in their identity may not have any, um, trouble being bullied at school because often if you put yourself out there enough, then people will kind of if you're confident in yourself, people won't give you so much stuff. Um, not always, But often we kind of see that. And whereas if you, um if you are a trans person, for example maybe facing, um um, you might be facing a lot more kind of, um, bullying and discrimination. So we've definitely had schools, too, Where two students experience from within our community, Um, differ, like, really vastly. So I went to high school was like relatively easy to get both students on board and both teachers on board, because the teachers are about being really inclusive. And we have, like, a restorative process for, like, all sorts of, um, different issues. The hottest thing is just kind of what Tabby said was legal matters. So like getting the bathroom sort in the changing rooms and then getting, um, uh, open gender category in athletics because there's a whole lot of laws and regulations surrounding that. And like it, can you be trans and, like attend athletics on a you know, regional level. So it's difficult to get past, you know, like governmental barriers, and also get it like difficult getting like, if you need funding for certain things, it's frustrating, but yeah, different experiences. So Katie Hodgson, Onslow College College, Ex Western Heights High School. Um, I. I can't take any responsibility. So I responded when, um, there was a need. Appeared at the school for a gay straight alliance. Now, one of the things for me is I'm I'm an art teacher at school, and I know with that comes responsibility. Um uh for example, our gay straight allowances are coming from the student's perspective. OK, um, so for myself, I know I there's the conflict between me being someone who's in a position of power, and I'm also a position of responsibility and also in a position of recognising a need but also recognising that they it really needs to come from the students. I guess my question is for you guys in terms of what you would want from someone like me, what would you want? What would that look like? Say, um, I kind of I think the most important thing for being like a teacher in that kind of position is kind of acting as like an enabler for things, So it's a lot more difficult to voice out on a larger scale if you're a student and to voice out for legal matters if you're a student. So I think, um, being like a person to go to for that is one of the most important things. And I I like it high. It's a lot, well, high. It's a lot more, um, like less of an authority imbalance between students and peers, at least at least for myself and for ultraviolet because we have, you know, like teacher like enablers rather than teacher micro managers. So I guess it's just, you know, like taking it with a grain of salt and trying to, like, find out what works and what you need to be there. And, like just listening to the students and what they need rather than trying to be like, you know, forcing them into situations like should we do like like this? Or you should do this as like USA. I think that's important for students to know that they have, like the power to kind of get things going. But they have you to go to Um, I think it's good from a teacher's perspective, because I I know kind of a bit of both perspectives because I've, like, graduated school and, like I was had a really close relationship with all the teachers that were really supportive. So I knew what they would have to do to have something, um, be done. So I think it's best if teachers who are either supportive or out or feel that they need to, uh, be be up at some point at some height of support for the students is to remain on neutral ground. So be there for the students, but also be there for the people who aren't wanting to accept them. Because then you have to understand from both sides because you have to understand how the the queer kids, the students going to get along with the people who don't believe in them. If if you're only focused on one side of something, the other side can get really, really angry and vice versa. Um, it's I. I think if everybody understands each other and creates a A grounds for where we can all work together, it would be a lot better for a lot more people. Um, just really quickly just let the students lead it like at Q MC, The councillor wanted to do everything even though it was a student run club. So, like, once you've got it going, let the students like, obviously support. But yeah, absolutely. What these two have said kind of letting the students lead it. But I think being a visible presence makes like such a difference to the students knowing that there is kind of an L a among staff. Um, I know for me, having like an art teacher at my school meant so much as a young person and and that person not being afraid to kind of show that. And I don't I don't think that responsibility should be on every art teacher, but, um, I know it made a difference to me and, um I think, yeah, just being a real advocate for that group and using your your privileged position as a staff member to kind of advocate for them or, um, go along if they are meeting with senior leadership about something going along with that and supporting their and kind of being that in between where you can, um but letting them be the ones deciding what they're fighting for and that kind of thing. Um, I was just gonna say, I think as a teacher, being an art teacher is a is a really critical thing because you're showing that, you know, as a teacher, you're a normal person. Um, and I know I was certainly accused by one of my colleagues, not maliciously, but, you know, she said to me one day, Oh, the students know so much about you that's so wrong that you're revealing so much of your personal life. And I said, Well, what do they actually know about me? They know that I have a female partner and they know I have a cat. They don't know the name of my partner. They've never met my partner. They know your who your husband is. They've met your Children. They know where you live. I said they know a lot more about your personal life than they know about mine. So I think sometimes a different kind of bar is placed on, um, out teachers because people you know are are concerned that you're gonna be ramming it down, the students throats and all this sort of stuff. And it's not like that at all. The other thing I would say, too, is that amongst the membership of PPT. A, there are teachers who don't feel safe to be out in their school. And I know this is about, um, really a focus on young people. But I think we also need to remember that for a lot of, um, teachers, they are in communities where they don't feel safe to be out. And I think that's really sad that if the teachers feel like they can't be out, imagine what it must be like to be a young person in that school. A university lecturer at Victoria and I've only just put a rainbow flag on my door after meeting with, um, the students, uh, unq students who said that they appreciated it. I also struggle with this power gradient power. Gradient is extreme, so I like my office to be very neutral and grey in a sense that the students don't feel that they're coming into anything where they're being judged in any way at all. It's entirely academic, but, um, but I think it's worth pointing out that we exist everywhere, especially at university, too. Is anyone at university, By the way, anyone just a few few people. Very good. Any more questions? Oh, yes. Thank you. I'm I'm particularly interested to hear from the representatives whether they be teachers or students, including in the audience provision that is currently being made within your school of the school that you know of for unisex toilets and unisex changing rooms. Now, David, I on made reference to the fact that, uh, the change rooms do have implications for some people as far as whether they participate in PE or not. So I'd be just interested. Also, people from the floor to to contribute to this from your own knowledge. Um, from from my point of view, um, Quest trade alliance. Last year, their project was to put a proposal to the board of trustees for unisex toilets. Um, which they did very successfully. Um, but, um, as Kirsty said, there's huge, huge sums of money involved. You're talking tens of thousands of dollars for conversions and probably close to, um, hundreds of, uh, you know, just over 100,000 mark. Um, so, uh, for us, it's on our, um, property plan. It's on the five year property plan, but there we go. It's A. It's a lot of money when there are a lot of pressures on schools to fix roofs and to mend the plumbing and to replace the 50 year old boiler and all that sort of stuff. So there there are. There's not enough money to to go around. On the other hand, Wellington High School. So we there was in my year nine when I just first joined the QS a then known as Queer Support. Um, it was our very first project to get gender neutral at least bathrooms and, like, if we're lucky, a changing room and so that was pitched by the leaders, then who I won't name. And also, um, another like outside source who just graduated from high that wanted to help with that. And so the main thing was just writing the letter of why it was important and pitching that to the board, making sure everybody was on the same page of why we needed them and where they would go. And so it might just be unique to Wellington High. But we have like, uh, quite a few bathrooms, like we have a bathroom block because it would were mainly a vertical school. I guess you could say And so it was basically just pick a floor. And the most money involved was just removing, like changing the signs from girls bathroom to boys, bathroom to bathroom like that was it? There are already a couple of changing rooms in the very like top ones that worked out well, but I think almost to contradict the point of, like tens of thousands of dollars pour into it. I don't think it's necessary to, um, say that because, uh, genuinely, the most thing you have to do is just, like pick a bathroom to change or pick all of them to change and just just change the signs. I think a lot of like one of the main excuses by the board is like, Oh, it will cost so much money when really it won't And it's doing so much good to all of the LGBT students or all the people who just don't like feel comfortable defining in like an A or B category of gender. I think it's within their full right to say, like I like an open space bathroom, so yeah, no, we have that had been here for four years. Is anyone from the floor who'd like to add something about their experience at their school or from I've only been at the school since the start of term, but we have unisex toilets. Hi. My name is Sarah. I'm actually here as a parent. And, um, I've met you before when my daughter first came out. And I'm interested to meet you. David, I've got a 10 year old transgender daughter, and she's in the Newlands community. Um, when we had the bathroom discussion with the school, the decision was made that the staff toilets would become un at the time. They did actually have a gay teacher at the school, and so that made it a little bit easier. But, um, again, I mean, I'm working in education as well the pressures and the amount of money it is to change those kind of things. Excuse me. I'm a bit It's like, um, puts a lot of pressure on schools, but my daughter still gets bullied going into the girls toilets at her current primary school. Um, and I think my question for you, Christine David, is Has there been Have you done any work with the intermediate in the primary schools. And are you looking at doing things like that? Because it's very much needed? Um, we're kind of on our own sailing through this. I know a lot of the focus is on young people and youth, and I think that's fantastic, and I don't want to take away from that. But for my daughter, my family, there's zero support. We don't know where we should go to get support. And although our primary school has been fantastic, um, I think the general feeling I get is yes, you can have whatever you want. Let's just not make a big song and dance about it so my daughter can be who she is at her school, but just not too loudly, Um, and that can get very frustrating as a parent, because you want your child to obviously be everything they want to be and be supported, but also from an education point of view, we've got health education this year, and I have tried repeatedly to start a dialogue with my school about how they're going to include my daughter in that. Where is she gonna go when they split the boys in that room. The girls in that room and how are they gonna discuss gender? So that's as a parent. And then as an educator, Mr Duff is my English teacher at Burnside as well. Small world. Um, I'm really interested in that. I'm interested in how we start to draw down the education and the practises you have happening in high school and get them into the intermediate and get them into the primary school because our kids don't suddenly just become trans when they're 14 or they don't suddenly become gay when they're 14 and enter a high school. So, yeah, that's I've got lots of things I could say that that's a good start. I'll I'll start. Should I, David, um, one of the challenges for PPT A is that we're a secondary teachers union. And so therefore, um, you know, I mean, secondary teachers are paying subscriptions to be part of our union, so therefore, obviously we work with secondary schools, But what I would say is, I I've put quite hard to try and get at least into intermediate schools in a slightly devious way, where if schools contact me if we have one member in that school, and it's usually a technology teacher. Then I would argue that we have membership there. And so therefore, we could work with that school, and I've tried to convince intermediate schools that that would be a useful thing, but I haven't got there yet. Um, we have to be really careful about not stepping on the primary teachers. Um, patch and, um, as far as I'm aware, they do absolutely nothing in this area, which is which is a challenge. The other thing that I would say, too, is that, um when we go to an area school, so an area school, if you don't know what an area school is, it covers everything from year 1 to 13 in a single on a single site. Um, our workshop, um, is offered to the whole staff. So there are pockets where teachers who are in primary and intermediate, um, are getting our message. But it is a real challenge, and I think it's a It's a real issue. When you look at the statistics from the Youth 2000 survey. How many students know by the age of 11 that they're either the same or both Sex attracted or that they're transgender, that, you know, it's not like you. Suddenly you're right. You don't turn on a switch when you get to secondary school and suddenly say, Oh, look at that. Now I realise that I'm a lesbian. Um, it it doesn't work like that. And I think there is a need to move into, um, younger, you know, to support schools to support younger people. But I'm not I'm not the answer. Um, but I'm trying in slightly subversive ways that keep doing it. You raised heaps and heaps of issues. Um and, um, I, I think, sort of in the general public's defence. What I'd like to say is that things are moving so rapidly in these areas that even us who are so close to it, have some difficulty keeping up with the changes that are happening within our society and particularly with in the youth society, that those people that are on the fringes or completely outside Sometimes what I think is we perceive as resistance from them is just a lack of understanding of what's going on. And there's a fair amount of education that needs to go on. I'd love to get? Um, I may have more links into the new I do have more links into the new educational community. Then you might have I'd love to get alongside you and see what crow bars. We can work together to end up at school, but she's still she starts next year, and we just need some help. And I am aware of who are not openly out who need that support. Right now. We need to talk. Is everyone else who'd like to talk? Just on this issue is about Started off with bathrooms. Oh, sorry. Here we go. Yeah. So first, just really want to acknowledge what the situation that you're in and that a lot of people are in because there isn't that support, and that sucks. Um, just yeah, really feel that. And again, back to what I said at the start. If we I guess our point of view from inside out was that we would love to be able to do that work. It's just a matter of capacity. We're struggling to do what we are already doing. Um, And to do that well, we need we need to have that focus area. Um however, we do? If a school reaches out to us, then we will work with them. Um, we tried to get to reach out to you. We just don't have the capacity to put a lot of work. We just don't have the resourcing to to go out there and encourage them to come to us. Um, but if they are willing to pay us for training, um, then we would absolutely love to do that. We have worked with a few intermediates. Um, and sometimes we get really, like last year. I remember we got a few emails from, like, intermediate students who were doing their like assignments on stuff and wanted to do like an interview about transphobia and stuff. And I was like, This is amazing at this age, even at 10 are very aware of these social issues. But as adults, we seem to think that they're too young to discuss them or handle them. This is exactly what my daughter is facing as well. Is that No, you're a child. You do not know what you're talking about. So just sit down and be quiet. And so that's a dialogue we need to show for sure. get him on the gun. Yeah, I think that's really important because, you know, whenever we have, like discussions with kids, even with stuff about, like, not gay related issues, just like, you know, bullying or like, even stuff like climate change, they really like they absorb it all. And so I don't know why we don't have, like, you know, gender education in primary schools and people just not being educated about things. My postgraduate work has been looking at this stuff, and a lot of it comes from fear and misunderstanding. So that's what you guys do. What you guys are doing is shift it, helping to shift that, and it will trickle down just very slowly. Uh, I guess one more thing is that some of and wherever possible, we do try to make our work inclusive of the broader education spectrum. So that resource on making schools safer for trans youth, for example, is is definitely applicable to most school settings. Um, this year we're doing a new project which is focused on, um, kind of rainbow visibility in libraries. So that will be something that we will be open to any age group of library Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and just really trying to have that kind of in school and community libraries Representation of rainbow communities. Getting schools to do a display once. Let's see. It doesn't sound like much, but I kind of OK, um, my school did a, um an ex. An exhibit an ex. Not really an exhibit. Um, it was like a a thing in the library. It's like a It's called a It's called a punk. Just play board. Thank you. Um, um, so, uh, my the group that I ran that I run Oh, God. Um uh, we we picked out a lot of different books. Uh, that had to do with queer people and queer straight alliances and how it's progressed through the years. And like the history of gay people and what we've had to go through, and we just put it up in one whole display and people students mostly were actually paying attention to it. Some people were picking up the books and reading it and being like, Oh, I should really stop bullying these people and some. Yeah, um, some boys who had bullied me in the past when they saw that they came up to me and apologised. So even if it's just those little things that that you, it just in accepts the idea into other people's brains that it's so that there is something wrong. But it's it's not being gay. Being gay is OK, this is the trust tree. Everybody climbs and nobody falls. I just wanted to add to what you are saying. I am co leading um, Newlands colleges QS A this year. Um, last year we touched on changing the health curriculum. So when your daughter gets to Newlands College, she will not need to worry about which group she's going to go into. It will. We wanted to get We're going to start off with getting more of it out there because all we ever we we when we did health, it was they dipped a toe into the LGBT Q pool and that was it. And so we're going to get them to dive in. They are going to get in that pool. Um, and if they don't, we will push them. No. Um but yes. So they brought up a very good point. Um, in the QSA, I will try to get involved with the intermediate and the primary, if possible. Because if we get students from five knowing that it's OK to like everyone or not everyone or people who look the same as them, then they're then going to go into college and intermediate and university and life and know that that's normal and normalising removing. And so five year olds, when they're then 20 they're going to see if other people if other people are going, Hey, you know, that's kind of gay. They're gonna be like, What's wrong with being gay? So it's just, yeah, we need to start kids early if you need resources for, like sorry if you need resources for like any health related things hit us up or question Mark Tabb me up because, boy, do we have them. If you want a parent L I and new ones to work alongside you, I'm more than happy. You. First of all, that's a really suave way to like get someone's number. But but, um, I had a comment and a question, but now I've got two comments and a question 1st. 1st of all, if you're looking for gay literature, shameless plug for gracefully Grayson. It's a great book. Love it. Um, my second comment is you're a great parent. I love you. And my third call. My My question actually is to Miss Barron and Mr Pegram. How was it? Like when you first came out at school to your students? What? What? What happened? What was it like? Oh, when I did my teacher education, which was quite a long time ago in the 19 nineties, uh, I made a decision that I wasn't going to be out as a student teacher because I wanted a job at the end, and I was fearful that I might not get one. And as soon as I started teaching, I was out. And, uh, uh, I think being out has been hugely protective for me and teaching I. I started teaching at the same time as a colleague who didn't want to be out and spent two years fighting fires with people. Kind of name calling. And, um, the story I used to describe this for myself is walking into the classroom one day and a student I don't I didn't see who it was. I just heard a voice, um, as I walked into the room. All I heard was Dios sour, and I was immediately offended by the implication. I was old for a start. And so I said at the end of the lesson, you know, whoever said that, could you just stay behind at the end and carry it on? Have my lesson At the end, seven boys all stayed behind, and they all told me what they said. They'd said other things as well that I hadn't heard. Sometimes it's helpful being a bit deaf. And I said to them, That's like me saying to you Year nine, Maori boy, because you know, he was a Maori boy and I I said that This, you know, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't offend me if you call me a lesbian because I am a lesbian and I just never got hassled again. And so I think there's a huge amount of power in that. But I think the other kind of side of that is for the queer kids. It was really important to be out as a teacher. And, you know, sometimes, um, I was the first person that they came out to, and, um uh you know, it was one of those kind of privileges almost as a teacher that you were able to support young people as they kind of started on their own journey to work out where they were going to go and that you know what, What was gonna happen for them, where they were going to end up? Um, I've never had any problem but or never had any serious problem. But I think that, uh, queer teachers are in the same as any other minority group. That's a teacher. You have to be good, otherwise you be picked on. So I've always got the impression that if I wasn't good at what I do, and I think I'm good at what I do that I wasn't good at at what I do, my sexual orientation would be picked upon as the excuse to have a go at me. And I think that's the same for for all sorts of minority groups within the teaching profession and perhaps within the wider community as well. What stage of your career did you come out? Um, Well, Robin Duff keeps on being mentioned. Um, here and, um really Oh, a little bit um, in England that that's over 30 years ago. But but really, here in New Zealand. Just about 30 years ago, a gay teachers gay lesbian Teachers group was formed by Robin and, um, one of his, um, friends called gays and lesbians everywhere in education. And, uh, we had a fair amount of media publicity at the time, So, uh, for a number of articles in the post and then the local papers And, um so, yeah, that was 30 years ago. Can I just say I'm amazed by the stories of courage we're hearing from all these young people coming out and setting up their own organisations in the face of adversity. And, um, I just take my hats off to you all for for pushing on and, um, doing it. We all feel at risk when we come out, um, come out of the closet first. But to do it at school and not know that you're going to be supported is a massive thing. So I'm I'm amazed and very, very admiring on the side of the stage. Um, any other comments from the floor to you? I was just rather disappointed. Um, the limited progress at well in college because I remember the long term principal. I think he might just be finishing. But when he came to that job so many years ago, he he's he I remember him saying that he want he was going to address homophobia. So that's somebody at the top. I'm just I'm just wondering, Josh, if you got any sort of comment on that in school um indeed, so were Were you a teacher at Wellington College or were you? No. OK, um so there is only so much that the headmaster can do. Um and I mean that in the sense that I've I've seen. I've seen him. I've spoken to him a lot. Every time he saw me throughout high school or any of the boys that were also being bullied, he would always ask them he would stop them, even if they're about to get on the bus like, are you OK? And it was really helpful that that was a thing, because that at least we could speak to him directly because nobody, a majority of people wouldn't even see the headmaster. Most of the time, you would only see your teachers or, um your tutors are the teacher aides, and that's all you would have to talk to. So he was there in the sense that he was supporting us like that. But I feel that just talking about it really doesn't do anything. You have to actually take an action. Um, and that's part of the reason why I found it here in the first place was because nobody was listening to us. Nobody was really doing anything. People were saying that they were doing something and nothing had been done. I remember reporting, um, an incident that happened. And then I got I went back to the same person that I reported it to a little while later, and they were just like what? Well, one thing. And I was like, You forgot. OK, thanks. You're a decent person. Um, but, uh, it's it's It's such a difficult thing to talk about that school because if you didn't fit a certain category a certain hierarchy in the social hierarchy of the school, for instance, if you didn't do a sport if you weren't in any production, if you weren't a prefect, if you weren't a leader of some sort of thing you didn't really matter like if you were in a sports team and you like this happened to me. I reported somebody who was bullying me and a few of my other friends, and they were only given one detention. But the thing that they had done was so bad and at such a huge magnitude that it was only one detention. The reason why was because he had rugby practise after school and he had to go play the game because the school was so fixated on keeping that trophy cabinet full. And that is the most annoying thing is because is that they're more worried about how they look towards towards everybody else, that they don't realise what they're not doing for. The students who need those things are making them look even worse, which is why things explode like every time well into college goes on the news. I'm like, Oh, here we are again like it's it's so bad, it's It's not a safe place. It's coming from a personal point of view. It's not a safe space for students, not a safe space for some teachers. And it's just not a safe space for even kids who are an intermediate Coming in like when you said before that your daughter is going is like you don't know what she's gonna go through when she gets into college. Like I feel for that because I didn't know what I was getting into going to an all boys school like I was. The reason the reason how I figured out I was gay was like, Oh, my God, look, Orlando Bloom and I was like, Whoa, I'm gay! But And then I realised, like, um and then I realised high school. I was like, Oh, there's a lot of boys there and a lot of problems and I didn't I didn't have time to understand that when I went into year nine. So I think getting students while they're young and telling people that things need to be done is what's going to make things better for everyone else. Like if you're gay or not, if you're accepting or not, it's just gonna make things better for everyone because, like if you if you don't believe in gay people or gay marriage, just don't marry somebody of the same sex. I'm back, Um, so I'm no longer at, uh, high school. I'm now enjoying university, but there was a QS a sit up, Um, soon after I left and I still kind of sitting up, and I was really just wondering what your advice would be a in setting up. And also then, especially in approaching the school leadership around specific issues and proposals and things like that, especially because they recently got, like, allocated $13 million to help rebuild the school or not rebuild it. But change it. So I was just wondering from everyone, because clearly there's a lot of angles here. What would your advice be to up and coming? Q SAS? Um, for the leaders, there's a Wellington QS, a leaders group, and that's been really helpful, like there's lots of resources and you can talk about what, what direction You want to go with the group and like you can. It's really good. You can also connect with all the other leaders in like the Wellington region, so you can like, make connections and help other people out and get resource to them. And it's like How would you, like, supervise by inside out and kind of run by people there So it's just so helpful to have access to, like, literally anything you could want. But Tabby is probably your girl for the question. Oh, yes. Um um, for me starting because they're starting a QS a right or trying to Oh, they've just started. Ok, um, if it's entirely student run, um, it's it's better if you have bigger numbers because that you won't have to have one person doing everything. Um, I started my one myself. That was girl, that was stressful. Um uh, and it was like the the second I had more people coming into the group and being like, I can help, I can do this. It was so much easier. Um, so going on Facebook pages where other leaders are going to going to inside out and having meetings with other people are just going out into town and hanging out with other people or people who have just left high school or people who have just started uni. It's easier to work together in a big group rather than work by yourself in your own little corner and and just have everything on your back. It just doesn't feel good. Uh, so I know you're talking about a school in south, um, central Otago. Is that right? Yeah. So, unfortunately, don't have access to our Wellington QS a support group. Um, we get first disconnecting with inside out. We have a national schools network. We can send them out resources we're available to do, um, video or email chats with people. Kind of like digital mentoring around, um, groups with anyone in the country. Um, I think in terms of that stuff, like getting things through senior leadership, et cetera. Having like an ally on the staff, like having a staff member or several that are supporting the group that can, um, help them with those. I think Josh raised a really great, um, point about where possible, Not having it all full on one student because that people burn out and it can actually be a huge responsibility. Um, being like and so he was dressed up. Yeah, being, um, being one. Um, I know when I was at school, just being like that person at school and everyone, even the staff would come to you for everything. Um, and often you're dealing with other young people who might be having really hard mental health times. Back when I was at school, there were people being kicked out of home, Um, all sorts of stuff, and having that as a young person, feeling like that's your responsibility to respond to can be huge. So definitely connecting them in with, um, support from their peers, their staff and that will be made like a top thing. Um, reading our resources using them. Um, the one on studying and strength of diversity groups has heaps of tips on kind of what to do challenges that come up all sorts of stuff. Google inside out. Ask for Tabby. Have an ally on the staff. Just a quick point. Um, the easiest, like the best thing that we've done for, like continuation of a group is try and have at least one person in one year who's like, willing to help out, because then you know that there's always gonna be at least somebody at a meeting. If somebody's like on a school trip or like the club might die, it's it's good to have like a junior. That's like I am really keen to find them, um, something good for starting. Q SAS is asking the students what they want. Like, um, we had a, like, an anonymous survey. If anyone didn't want to speak up because it can often be really hard to start the discussion. And, um, asking students at Queen Margaret was just the best way for us to see what they wanted to do and where they want to go with it. Well, I think we're out of time. So, um, we can continue the discussion of, um, over refreshments, which are gonna be through that door and, uh, two flights up to, um, the common room before we do this first up. That way, though, um, I'd just like to, uh, thank our panel so very much. Um, let's all show our gratitude. It's really great to to hear these. These courageous stories and so much progress has been in in, um, our lifetimes. Um, I'd also like to thank very much for the community of Saint Andrews on the terrace who have provided this wonderful space to us. The Reverend Susan Jon Jones, Jim tray from the Saint Andrews community. Other volunteers who have made this possible. I like to thank inside out for being there. Um, David and Kirsty for coming to speak. And Josh and Neo, Thank you so much. So, um, now we will, uh, move upstairs, so thanks very much for everyone for coming. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1970s ; 1990s ; 2000s ; 2010s ; Ami Polonsky ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Board of Trustees ; Burnside High School (Christchurch) ; Christchurch ; Community Law ; Community Law (Wellington) ; David ; Day of Silence ; Diversity Group (Newlands College) ; Dominion Post (newspaper) ; Events ; Gays and Lesbians in Education (GLE) ; God ; Gracefully Grayson (book) ; Grain of Salt ; Grant Jones ; Human Rights Commission ; InsideOUT Kōaro ; Jem Traylen ; Job ; Josh Espino ; Katy Hodgson ; Kirsty Farrant ; LGBT ; London ; Ministry of Education ; NZEI Te Riu Roa ; Nayland Alliance of Gays and Straights (NAGS) ; Nayland College ; Nelson ; Neo Kenny ; Netherlands ; Newlands ; Newlands College ; Onslow College ; Orlando Bloom ; Otago ; Out Loud ; People ; Post Primary Teachers Association (PPTA) ; Queen Margaret College ; Rainbow Taskforce for Safe Schools (PPTA) ; Rainbow Wellington ; Rainbow flag ; Ri Comer ; Richard Arnold ; Robin Duff ; Space ; St Andrew's on the Terrace ; Stuff ; Super Ultra Rainbow Alliance (Wellington) ; Te Herenga Waka - Victoria University of Wellington ; The Closet ; UltraViolet club (Wellington High School) ; United Kingdom ; Wellington ; Wellington College ; Wellington East Girls' College ; Wellington High School ; Wellington Pride Festival (2018) ; Wellington region ; Youth ; access ; acting ; advice ; advocate ; agenda ; athletics ; audience ; balance ; barriers ; bathrooms ; belonging ; biphobia ; bisexual ; board ; books ; bullying ; bus ; career ; change ; charity ; children ; class ; climate change ; closet ; code ; coffee ; coming out ; community ; conflict ; connect ; connections ; courage ; culture ; dance ; data ; difference ; disappear ; discrimination ; diversity ; diversity education ; diversity group ; diversity training ; dykeosaurus ; education ; email ; environment ; external resource ; face ; family ; fear ; food ; forum ; friends ; fun ; funding ; future ; gay ; gender ; gender education ; gender identity ; gender neutral ; gender neutral bathrooms ; gender neutral uniform ; gender-neutral toilets ; government ; guidance ; headmaster ; health ; health curriculum ; health education ; history ; hit ; homophobia ; homophobic bullying ; homosexual ; hope ; human rights ; identity ; integrity ; intermediate school ; journey ; kicked out ; knowledge ; ladies ; language ; law ; leadership ; legal rights ; lesbian ; letter ; library ; listening ; lobbying ; love ; marriage ; media ; meetings ; mental health ; minority ; nature ; news ; normal ; open relationship ; opportunity ; other ; parenting ; parents ; peer support ; plan ; politics ; posters ; power ; preferred name ; primary school ; pronouns ; proposal ; queen ; queer ; queer straight alliance (QSA) ; rainbow ; reading ; religion ; representation ; resistance ; resource ; restorative practice ; rugby ; running ; safe space ; safety ; school ; school counselor ; school uniform ; secondary school ; sex ; sexual orientation ; silence ; sin ; single sex schools ; sleep ; social ; solidarity ; spectrum ; speech ; sport ; statistics ; stickers ; straight ; struggle ; support ; survey ; teacher ; teachers college ; teaching ; technology ; the other side ; time ; top ; tough ; training ; trans ; transgender ; transphobia ; travel ; trust ; understanding ; uniform ; university ; vice ; video ; violet ; visibility ; voice ; walking ; women ; work ; workshop ; writing ; youth ; youth group. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/lbgti_plus_education_forum.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089816. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.