The title of this recording is "Last Chance film evening discussion". It is described as: Audio from a discussion pre and post screening of "Last Chance", a documentary that tells the stories of five rainbow asylum seekers who flee their native countries. It was recorded in Ngā Taonga Sound and Vision, 84 Taranaki Street, Te Aro, Wellington on the 7th October 2014. This is a recording of an event and features the voices of Abraham Naim, Christian Desroches and Marianne Elliot. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 38 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the event. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Audio from a discussion pre and post screening of Last Chance, a documentary that tells the stories of five rainbow asylum seekers who flee their native countries to escape homophobic violence and intimidation and seek safety in Canada. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This summary details a recorded discussion held at Ngā Taonga Sound and Vision in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand, on October 7th, 2014. The discussion focused on the screening of "Last Chance," a National Film Board of Canada documentary. The film tells the harrowing tales of five individuals who leave their homelands due to homophobic violence and seek asylum in Canada. The conversation featured Abraham Naim, Christian Desroches, and Marianne Elliot, who discussed human rights issues concerning refugees and the LGBT community. Christian Desroches, working at the High Commission of Canada, opened the event acknowledging the collaborative effort that made the screening possible and quickly touched upon the film's content and nature. The film was highlighted not only for telling the struggle of LGBT asylum seekers in Canada but also for its critical view of Canadian refugee policies despite the National Film Board's governmental ties. During the discussion, alarming statistics were presented regarding global situations where homosexuality is criminalized, emphasizing the importance of international efforts to combat homophobia and support those at risk. A proud note was made about Canada housing a significant percentage of resettled refugees globally. Abraham Naim shared a deeply personal narrative as a convention refugee from the Maldives, shedding light on the challenges faced in the process of seeking asylum and the stark reality of potential statelessness due to expiring documentation. Naim showcased the importance of community support and emphasized the desire to achieve asylum through one's merit. Marianne Elliot from Amnesty International stressed the significant role of civil societies in ensuring governments remain open and welcoming to refugees. Elliot highlighted the complexity of the refugee journey, which extends far beyond the initial status recognition, and the need for support networks for these individuals as they strive to rebuild their lives in a new country. Throughout the session, the issues of misinformation and the dire need for accessible resources and processes for those looking to seek asylum based on sexual orientation was discussed. The importance of accurate, upfront information about asylum procedures was underscored as a missing piece in aiding those who genuinely needed it. Concerns were raised regarding the bureaucratic frameworks that often impede the asylum process and result in life-threatening situations upon the deportment of those rejected due to subjective judgments about sexual orientation. Issues of prejudice within the system were brought up, showcasing the pitfalls of a system wherein political patronage previously influenced the appointment of officials making life-changing decisions for asylum seekers. An urgent call to action accompanied the event, with a petition for a Gambian homophobic bill being circulated. Elliot highlighted the global need for change, the necessity for solidarity, and the conviction that safe existence should be a reality across all nations. The fight for everyone to live authentically and safely, irrespective of sexual orientation and gender identity, was echoed as the ultimate goal and against which, current refugee policies are but a stop-gap. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Hi, everyone. Um uh, welcome to this film screening this evening. Very grateful for your presence. Uh, my name is Christian. I work at the Canadian High Commission, and, uh, while I I'm here to give a few very brief remarks early on I I have to acknowledge that most of the work was done by colleagues who are sitting here. Uh, and Marianne from Amnesty International did a lot of the paid work here. And, um Hickey, my colleague at the high commission also, uh uh, did some, um, uh, some of the some of the work. So thank you for for organising this. Um, I just want to say a few words about the film. Uh, it tells a story of five LGBT people who are seeking the right of asylum in Canada in order to escape persecution or homophobic violence in their homelands. It was produced by the National Film Board of Canada, and I just wanted to be clear that the National Film Board is a government agency, but it's fully independent, so you'll see that it's not a Canadian propaganda film or anything. Actually, you'll notice if you pay close attention that it is quite critical of Canadian refugee policy in some instances, because we've announced a number of reforms in recent years, which I I'd be happy to discuss with any of you afterwards. Um, so what? What made the film interesting. The reason we chose it is that it focuses on two critical human rights issues refugees and the the rights of, uh, LGBT B Peoples. Uh, on the issue of sexual orientation. Um, homosexuality is still against the law in no less than 80 countries and at least five countries have laws that allow homosexual acts to be punished by death. Uh, in some cases, these laws are unenforced hangovers from an, uh, a bygone era. But in others, they're actively and viciously implemented. Uh, so obviously, you know, for for us as Canadians. And I'm sure many Kiwis feel the same way, uh, to to have governments actually enact draconian punishment and violence inflicted on people just because of who who they love and who they are is is unacceptable. Um, so we've been quite vocal, uh uh, in efforts to encourage countries to decriminalise homosexuality and and to confront hate crimes and decriminalise and discrimination that targets LGBTI people. Our Foreign Minister John Baird takes pride in being one of the loudest voices, uh, calling for change, often at the discomfort of people across the table. As he said in a recent speech, So many of the, uh LGBTI people who face persecution, uh, come to countries like Canada and New Zealand to seek refuge to seek refuge. And there are other, many other progressive and welcoming countries around the world. And the issue of refugees is the second human rights issue I just wanted to briefly discuss, um, there are an estimated 15. 4 million refugees in the world today, and the country resettlement programmes only admit about 100,000 of them every year. So that's a very, very small percentage. Although I I'm proud to say that Canada welcomes one in 10 of these resettlement, uh, refugees, uh, every year. And there are a number of people who also make their refugee claims in Canada. Uh, last year we had about 10,300 the people you'll see in the film today did that. They basically applied for a visa, a tourist visa, a temporary visitor visa. They arrived in Canada, and they claimed asylum. So obviously people like me who work in embassies often we try and keep out people. You know, we don't give them visas if we think they're going to claim asylum asylum, so it puts us in a difficult position. But, uh, I think that's why we need our civil society colleagues to put pressure on us to keep the doors open and and be welcoming to refugees. Um, so you'll see in the film, uh, that, uh, that, you know, the five, people were highlighted in the film are facing face struggles, and it's not easy. Uh, but we do have support networks to help them, and, uh, they're not happy endings for all of them. I think, uh, as you'll note, uh, not not everyone ends up getting asylum. So, um, happy to, uh, to be part of this event this evening. I'm looking forward to our panel discussion later, Later on in the evening. And I, I especially look forward to, uh, hearing about Maduro's own experiences, and I have to say, you look wonderful this evening. So, uh and, uh, I I did read, uh uh, about you there. And there was some coverage in the media. So I'm looking forward to hearing firsthand what you you you had to go through. And I think that, uh uh, um, we we all need people here to be seized of the issue. And, you know, people like you need to put pressure on people like me to make sure our governments continue doing the right thing. Thank you very much. Mhm. Well, thank you for staying. I'm Mary Anne Elliott. I'm I'm, um, from Amnesty International, New Zealand. And, um, I just wanted to say a few things, and then I'm going to introduce Madu, who will be back here in a second. Um, I was really struck in your opening comments, Christian, when you said that, uh, there's a There's a great need for those of us who are in civil society. Those of us who live in the community who care about this issue to keep pressure on decision makers in government, um, to ensure that countries like New Zealand, similarly to Canada, who have, uh, who are known around the world as having in many ways, um, who are known around the world for in many ways having a strong policies to ensure that we do recognise and, uh, accept cases of conventional refugees, but we can't afford as civil society to let the pressure come off. And as we heard, um, in this film as we saw the stories of people like and Carlos, Alvaro and Jennifer, we have, um, somebody here with us this evening. Mela Oblongata. Who, uh, is here and has very kindly, um, offered to speak to some of her own experiences that mirror some of the experiences of the people who are in the film. Um, because it the story, as we saw, is so much more complicated than what Maybe it often appears when it can seem that that first stage of having, um, your application for refugee status approved can perhaps seem like that's the end of the journey. But in many, many ways, it's just the beginning of another, equally complex journey. Anyway, enough from me, I'd like to welcome the wonderful, um, mala to the stage. And she's Well, this is awkward. I've never done anything like this before, so yeah, um, so I'm Mallah, um, also known as Abraham. Um, I'm originally from the Maldives and I am a convention refugee. Um, I was granted refugee status last year in November, but as you did say that my experiences does mirror what the film does show. And I commend the makers of the film for making this and showing this side because, um, I had to do, like, a lot of research, um, before I even attempted to seek asylum. But, like, I am actually very fortunate and and fortunate enough in the sense that I had actually lived in New Zealand prior for six years as an international student. And I did get to know people, and I did get to make friends and get involved in the community here. And in 2008, I was a safe sex poster boy. So, um, there was like when I came over and sought asylum, Um, there was like, I felt a bit of a disconnect, Um, in the sense that, um, I barely, like, met any of the people involved in the process. And I had only ever, like, um, talked to my lawyer, and I saw him, like, total of maybe 34 times maximum. And the whole process was just like, seven months. And like, I appreciate that, and I think it's great. But there are still a lot of, um, up and coming legendary Children like such as these people on the movie. And also, some of the world's famous people have also been refugees such as male uh, Albert Einstein. Sigmund Freud. Uh, and we wouldn't have these people if, um refugee status, whatever didn't exist. I also, um, left the Maldives when I was 13. So, um, I was fortunate again to have lived abroad and have had, like, a Western way of thinking. But, like, uh, I went back in 2010 after I had told my parents that I was gay, not Muslim and a drag queen. And what they my dad had said to me was I would prefer you to be a drug addict. Um, and actually, I have four siblings. Uh, they're all drug addicts, and they would prefer my dad would prefer them to me, and that's really sad. And the person who raised me, um, my mom died when I was six months old. Um, my aunt raised me. She said, I don't have to talk to people of your standard, and my stepmother said to me. I feel like vomiting. Like these are people that I don't need in my life anymore. Thank you for bringing me to this place. Like where you gave me birth and life and whatever. But like, I think I meant for bigger things than like and I couldn't have done those things in the Maldives. And when I was there for the two years as an adult, I have never been more scared in my entire life. And I had organised two protests calling for religious tolerance. And at the second protest, um, we were attacked with cobblestones, and the police had arrested one of the participants. Um, and they started investigating why we had this protest in the first place, and they held him, um, in jail for like, about a month. And Amnesty International had actually declared him a prisoner of conscience. Um, and later on, he his throat was slashed and he had a 1% chance of survival, and he survived. Um, and soon after that, um, he even addressed the UN. Um, and he was offered, um, asylum, But he has not actually received it yet, and he is currently in limbo in Sri Lanka. So if y'all have any air points that you want to donate, please, it's a good cause. I don't know, Um and I didn't specifically think that my life was gonna, like lead me to this place where I would be standing here talking to a room full of people about my life. Because, really, what have I done? Nothing. But I think I am here now to talk to you because there is, like, a bigger calling for me to try and help these up and coming legendary Children because they need to be nurtured and they need to be loved and protected, and they're not getting it from where they are, so I don't really know, and I don't really know what else to say. So if y'all have any questions, I'm happy to answer that. Um, you said that, um, you didn't have anything to contribute, but I would say that you're a survivor, and you've also got the experience where you actually can make a difference. You can work with Amnesty International, and you can, um, empathise with the these other people who are going through, um, you have a lot to offer, and it's wonderful to see you taking that as your in life to, um, to to use your experience because you could just go off and become the host. Oh, believe me, I tried. Well, I didn't get the job. You you could just leave that behind you and say, Well, that's all over and done And, um, let the other spend for themselves, but not everybody. Give her a do. You still have family that are really important to you? Um, my closest would be my siblings that I really care for. Um, and currently, it's just my sister and my oldest brother living in the Maldives. Um, one of my brothers had married and got UK citizenship. So he's good. Um, but, um, another brother of mine, he's, um, advocating for secularism. And, um, he gets attacked a lot. Um, on the internet. Um, and dad has also disowned him because obviously not the same ideology thing, and yeah, also, I'm disowned as well. Yeah. So yeah, I have a couple of siblings that I care about that are still there. I can't I can't go back and see them because, um, after the Miss Wellington competition, which I entered and won, just by the way it means nothing. It means nothing. Because I didn't even get a crown. Will not go there, though. Um, after I had won after I had one, the president's office of the Maldives had released a statement saying that, um, anyone seeking asylum based on the grounds of sexual orientation and religion will be persecuted if they ever return. So definitely I cannot go back because they are also drafting the death penalty bill. Like how to go about it and everything. So that's my future. Don't want it. Thank you. Uh, the first lady my mum used to have a dress similar to yours when I was a child. And I loved it so much. Um, yeah, I was just I was wondering, um, if you kind of thought that there were because obviously, within our own society, we sort of suffer. Um, uh, our society has with, like, discrimination and things like that, and I don't know how you you think if you think there are any ways that supporters of, um, you know, refugee acceptance for people, um that have come to the ref refugee system. If there is any way that you think that we can kind of make you feel more accepted in deciding when you know that there are still problems with I I'd say maybe, Actually, let's establish sort of, um, an organisation or something that will help convention refugees. Because, let me tell you, when I went to the refugee services, um, here in New Zealand, um, after I arrived, they said, we can't help you because you're not a quite a refugee. And I had received no help apart from that of my friends. So thank you, Phil, for giving me a bed. Um, thank you. All my friends, uh, that are here today for being there for me and making it possible. Um, like, for someone to just come over on, like, a tourist visa or whatever, Um, it would be hard for them because there is no help available. Um, and the documentary also did say something about the fact that all the facilities are there to help, but, like, they won't let you in the country. So we need to change that talk about that or something. I don't know. Yeah, just maybe, on that note, I know that Christian is happy to take questions as well if you have questions. Um, it certainly was striking to me in the documentary when they said there is that very interesting and and, uh, really very difficult tension where you have countries like New Zealand and Canada that have a sort of on the books policy of, you know, being open to and being able to accept convention refugees. But you have visa officers and consulates who are effectively, uh, implementing a policy of don't tell or don't certainly don't make it easy for people to find out or to or to make those applications. And I don't know if you have any experience of that or information of that. And then maybe we can also ask a Christian to speak to that as well. I don't actually. But when we were talking yesterday, you said you you certainly. Or maybe it was you. And who said that you had some You know, some information about how difficult it can be when you go to an embassy or consulate. Yeah, there's there's no like I. I literally had to spend two years actually researching the process of how to seek asylum, and I had to, like, dig deep into the New Zealand immigration website, um, right into their like how to deal with refugees like hand book guide thing. Um, there is no public information about any of this because I don't really know why whether, like, they don't want you to come or whether they want to help but don't want to like, it's it's a tough call. So, yeah, is there anything that you can hear me or I guess, And I'm not an immigration officer, uh, per se. So I I've always kind of observed the process from the outside, and when I was in Nigeria for three years, I could see a lot of people were trying to come to Canada to claim asylum. I guess the issue is if you go to an embassy or a high commission and you say, Well, I want to claim asylum, then we'll say, Well, yes. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees is based on this this address. Please go and file your claim there because we want to try and control the process. And the issue in Canada, you know, which has a very generous refugee system, is that once people are in Canada. Even if the claim is unfounded, it can take 4 to 6 years to process the claim. And then at the end of that well, sometimes they're married, they have Children. And you know all of these. This process can be very time consuming and expensive. So the issue is how can we try and make the system a bit more efficient? Faster. But obviously, if you told if you were in a country like Nigeria, where I was where you know, 70% of the population live on less than $1 a day and say, Well, if you want to claim asylum and come to Canada based on sexual orientation, come and apply. You'll have millions of people showing up and one of the issues that's not reflected in the film. There are actually a lot of people who claim asylum based on sexual orientation who are not being honest about it. But if they come from a country where there's the case for other forms of political persecution is not strong, they will try to make that you can hire a coach in Montreal or Toronto to try and act more gay. So you can pass through your refugee hearing. There's a whole cottage industry of people of lawyers and consultants like that who will who basically feed off the system. So I guess one of the issues is how do you make sure the people who really deserve you know, asylum and deserve protection get through the system and not people, you know, trying to come for other reasons. And it's a challenge for governments because we have limited resources. You know, we can't let everyone in, you know, even if we'd like to. And so the process becomes, how do you make that selection process fair and manageable? But it's not easy. It certainly wouldn't be like ones that would appear on TV or video like the Colombian one who got sent back like he had his eyebrows done. He was pretty gay, like he was as gay as you get, like you sent him back. There is all this public, um, media. Whatever about him. He is gonna get persecuted when he goes back. Well, you wouldn't put yourself on the line like that if you weren't gay. Well, and it's not clear what's unfortunate about the movie is I'm not exactly sure I know what what circumstances. But I guess for a long time. And this is not, um uh I guess it's not a common knowledge, but the last bastion of political patronage was immig, immigration, refugee board appointments. So if you had done political favours for the party, they'd give you a job. So the people were not very, uh, educated, did not have proper training, and so you'd have people making life or death decisions like this who are not probably the best people in the job for the past few years. We've professionalised that a bit, so we're we're still working to improve the process. But the reality is, and I think one of the, uh, uh, academics who was interviewed on the panel, uh, said that, you know, there are a lot of there's still a lot of prejudice in a place like Canada and, you know, some people will say, Well, he doesn't look gay enough to me, and, uh and you know, a person will be sent back, so it's, uh it's obviously a teachable moment if something like that happens. But again, you have this issue where if you're, um like no one will ever know what happened to this person. The person who made the decision will not be reading the news in Colombia. And it's just like if you're a Visa officer, if you refuse someone, there's no cause. If you accept someone and that person goes to New Zealand or Canada and claims asylum, you can be sure that Visa officer will say, you know, well, case number 17, 38 71 that you admitted, uh, three months ago. He's now made an asylum claim. So you're not doing something right, whereas, you know, if you just refuse a person, you don't have to worry. And that's again. It's just bureaucratic convenience and efficiency. And that's why again, I said, as as someone who works in government, we need civil society to keep us honest. We need you guys to talk to, to make you know your views known to politicians. So they tell people like me, Well, you need to open the doors a bit more, but you know, it's the process won't work if civil society is not engaged. And just with that in mind, I was wondering, um, how difficult you actually found the process when you made your application, we saw in the the film that people had to provide evidence of the sexuality. And I've come to New Zealand from Scotland, and I find it really difficult just to find evidence of my heterosexual relationship, which had been six years long. And that's sort of basic, you know, bank statements and R things and stuff like that. But to actually provide evidence of did you have to provide evidence of your sexuality and things, like how difficult that actually was for you to, um I did have to provide evidence of my sexuality. Um, but they were documented in this instance. As I mentioned earlier, Um, I was a foster boy in 2008. So, um, New Zealand kind of knew my face, but not really like who I was. Um, but that's also fine. Um, then I had all these photos that circulated around on the internet of, um, me with boys and drinking and dressed like this. I mean, but there might be someone out there who you know who doesn't do this and, like, who is who is more like straight acting, non scene, sort of really find it difficult to actually produce that it would be really hard to. But like, if you if you are not something I don't think that they would come out and say that I'm gay. I need I need your protection. And I need your asylum. Please give it to me like you wouldn't do it like otherwise. Like, that's my personal feelings towards that. So, yeah, when you went back to the, uh, Moga in 2010, were you able on a confidential basis to get close to the GL BT community and talk with them and share your aspirations for what you had for trying to get refugee status, which you Dev wasn't an LGBT community per se that existed in the Maldives. But after I did win, um, the Sex Expo to Boy thing in 2008, I did create an LGBT community support group called Rainbow Maldives, which is an online forum to, like connect people. And, um, we did have that, but it was all very anonymous and no one really wanted to meet up or whatever, But then the people had anonymous profiles and they're all into the whole hooking up and whatever. Like that's not what I was about. Like I wanted to, like, get people involved and talk. Um, So when I went back, um, I did make friends with one boy who was a neighbour, but he was also, like, very camp and very overly effeminate and gay. And he had drag queen friends in the Maldives who, um, perform at, um, circumcision parties, which is? Yeah, for seven days long. They just party, like after they cut your tip off. Yeah, I don't even wanna go there. Um, So, I I met some of these drag queens, and I saw a couple of them perform, and, um, it was interesting, but like, they were all just telling me about stories of how they get abused, like verbally and like psychologically and blah, blah, blah, And, like, a lot of them do get, like, beat up as well. So yeah, fell. Just looking on a few secrets here. I think you've glossed over a couple of things relating to New Zealand and what the government has done. I believe our government is very much in the same boat as yours tightening up. But because we have this is a good one. I, I knew, knew before he was working here in town. I knew him to get up at a restaurant. We got online and he said, I'm thinking of coming back from New Zealand. Let's for a visit But in the meantime, he's firing me papers about what's going on now about being gay. So anyway, I'm long story short the he says. I'm arriving on so and so and that that was fine. So I get teed up to go to the airport. Bear in mind, we know you know where it is. It's quite a long way. The airport is not. It's like being on the same island as one airport. He's got to get on board to get across there. Well, on the day he's due to arrive, there is no fact. And the first thing I thought, God, what's happened is someone stopped him getting here. And but did you say you gonna miss the plane or something? I missed the plane. So here's me a New Zealand thing. I'm gonna get sprung here. So anyway, he finally arrives. Now, the thing that happened, I should getting here. He had a visa. Everything was going to be doing. The bottom line was that No-one knew what his ultimate motive was. OK, having got here, I'm giving you a move over this here, and you need speed that mind and object to that. Um, I'm on a big moment so that I was home. But we took a day or two and then decided to go through the process of him applying for asylum, which is great, because the biggest thing he had was he had all his research hero very much in that one, where they ticked all the boxes about persecution. That reminded me so much of what you went through, and that was there. But the point is, I got very, very frustrated because I'm not a not a sort of daddy, not a full of money, money, I, I do think. But he was standing there with very little money and we went down to a refugee centre just below us in street. They couldn't help us. So what do we do now? He put through his passport, they accept the application. But we entered a lawyer and which was another issue finding a lawyer in Wellington. We found we found one, but still works up to. No problem was there's no transport in there. He had no money to get on a bus. So 62 to me. So we went up there and he's starting to panic because the lawyer is very. He is slow and I'm trying to say to him, Look, this guy has got it right. He's checking all the boxes, just please and patience. Meantime, he's got no money to buy cigarettes or anything. I don't like smoking. I phone. But anyway, cut a long story short. There he been, was fine. There was quite a long time with the application. Once that application was lodged, he was underway. It was recognised that there was an application and and I don't know. So that film was six years or something? Well, unfortunately, we got a bit shorter that. But what I got a bit upset about in New Zealand was he could not get a work permit or something temporarily to support himself. There were things here that our system needs to look at if you don't if you fall between the cracks right there. But one of the questions was, Where's the mountains? I thought, Well, he could have seen on Mars, but some of the people we were dealing with didn't even know where he came from. So, uh, that was an interesting can of works, too. But we got to that. Unfortunately, we had another person who used to work with, knew a lot about the way to things and do it he got. And from that point, things started to play. But had it been anybody else who suddenly come in without me or or people, I don't be fact, we look at genuine. He was a second asylum seeker. I think he would have quite a bit of problem. You eventually got a work permit, which meant legally everything happened. But from from a personal point of view, I think that the time and all the time he could it be, is no answer. Well, OK, yeah, I have permanent residency now, but that doesn't mean like my ordeal is still over because my current passport expires in two years and I can't renew my passport. So in two years, I become stateless. Um, technically speaking, because I cannot go back to renew a passport, and there isn't a Maldivian embassy anywhere near here. Um, so and And also a couple of people did offer to marry a but he didn't think that it would be fair to them. And it certainly wouldn't be fair to Abraham. And also, I don't believe in marriage. So, like, I wanted to do like this on my own merits. I wanted to stay in New Zealand on my own merits, and I think I did prove it. And I think I have a lot more to show the world. So I don't know very quickly just to squeeze it in so, you know, persecuted in the Maldives, Dangerous for you to be there. Here you are in New Zealand. Amazing. We're so free and accepting. But in actuality, you know what? What's the reality of that? How safe are you in the in New Zealand as a gay man and a drag queen, I mean, it's like nowhere. Are you 100% safe? Because in every society there are these people that will, like, fight against whatever you are. And I have known people here in New Zealand that has been beaten up like there is Jeff Briton, who was actually murdered, um, because he was gay. And I know a fellow drag queen, Ellie Cat, who was also, um, gay bashed, um, dressed as a boy. But like, you're never 100% safe. And like, though I am able to still walk around dressed like this as a lady of the night, like, it's still quite terrifying, but also liberating and fear kind of never leaves you, but, like, you just have to make it, like, part of your companion as a companion and just go with it and just feel it. And, yeah, distrust yourself. Cool. Thank you so much. You can sit down. You can take that. I really just I want to finish up with one last thing. Which is that, um, yesterday, Anne and Abe and Mo and I were talking about that. Obviously, the provision of safe refuge through processes like the Convention on Refugees is incredibly important, but that the real solution that all of us want, I think, and I hope I can speak for everybody in the room is that it is safe for everybody everywhere to live their lives as themselves. Um, and whatever that means about who they want to love and who they want to be with sexually. And, uh, so one of the things we just wanted to draw your attention to is that that really is. That's the big game, right? I mean, that's really it's wonderful for us that we end up with some extraordinary people coming to join us in New Zealand because of this process, but that the long term goal would be for all countries to be safe. And unfortunately, that is very far from being the case and that there are places around the world right now where we see regressive steps being taken in terms of the rights and protections for, uh, homosexual, gay, lesbian, transgender and intersex people. And there's many, many instances of this, and there are many opportunities for us to come together as a community of people who care about this and take action. But I wanted to draw your attention tonight because sometimes when we when we watch a film like this, there's a a desire to take some action now and to do something useful right now. And Amnesty International right now is running an action, an urgent action in relation to a homophobic bill, which is, um, being, uh pushed through the legislative processes in Gambia right now. And, uh, we, uh, have a, um a sign up sheet in the foyer. We are collecting names for a petition calling on the president of Gambia to stop this process. Uh, when I read the statement from President Yahia Jamma of, um, Gambia yesterday, I was so utterly horrified that I'm going to read it for you. Um and I apologise because it is extremely, um, violent. And and and and yet I think sometimes it's important for us to remember that this is the reality that people are being subjected to. And this is not a statement coming from some bizarre fringe element. This is a statement from the president of Gambia who recently said that, um, those who promote homosexuality want to put an end to human existence. It is becoming an epidemic, and we will fight these vermin's called homosexuals the same way we are fighting malaria, causing mosquitoes, if not more aggressively. And this is the extraordinary hatred that is being, uh directed towards our brothers and sisters in Gambia right now. And I know it can feel overwhelming to confront that kind of hatred. But what we've learned at Amnesty International is that when we do join together and refuse to be silent in the face of that kind of hatred, when we stand in solidarity and say, this is not OK and we will let you know from across the world that this is not OK, it can make a difference. So I would please encourage everybody here to take a moment to add your name to that action and trust that, um, this is it's not a meaningless gesture that when many, many, many people come together, we've seen these kind of situations be reversed so we can do that. And, um, we can continue together to take many more actions like that to ensure that less and less people have to make the choice of leaving their families and their homes to seek refuge in places where they are provided at least more safety, if not perfect safety. Thank you so much for being with us. Um, and thank you to all of you for coming tonight and for for being concerned about and, um, committed to making a difference. Um, for everybody everywhere, um May we live, all of us to see the day when we don't need this kind of refugee status. Um, and in the meantime, let's keep the pressure on Christians. No. Well, on all of our governments to make sure that we can consistently improve how well we deal with this. Thank you. Thank you. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Abraham Naim ; Amnesty International ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Brendan Goudswaard ; Canada ; Christian Desroches ; Colombia ; David ; Drag Queen ; High Commission of Canada ; Homer ; Jeff Whittington ; Job ; LGBT ; Last Chance (2012) ; Maldives ; Marianne Elliot ; Miss Capital Drag (2014) ; Montreal ; National Film Board of Canada ; New Zealand AIDS Foundation (NZAF) ; Ngā Taonga Sound and Vision ; Nigeria ; People ; Refugee Convention (1951) ; Scotland ; Sigmund Freud ; Sri Lanka ; Stuff ; The Gambia ; Toronto ; United Nations ; Wellington ; academics ; acting ; actions ; activism ; asylum ; board ; bottom ; boxes ; bus ; camp ; change ; children ; choice ; citizenship ; civil society ; community ; community support ; competition ; connect ; convention refugee ; crown ; data ; death ; death penalty ; desire ; difference ; discrimination ; disown ; documentary ; drag ; education ; elders ; energy ; epidemic ; escape ; face ; family ; fear ; feelings ; film ; forum ; friends ; fun ; future ; gay ; government ; hate ; hit ; homophobia ; homophobic violence ; homosexual ; hope ; human rights ; immigration ; insurance ; internet ; intersex ; journey ; knowledge ; ladies ; law ; lawyer ; lesbian ; love ; media ; mirror ; movies ; news ; other ; pain ; parents ; parties ; passport ; persecution ; petition ; plan ; podcast ; police ; policy ; prejudice ; prison ; propaganda ; protest ; punishment ; queen ; rage ; rainbow ; reading ; refugee ; religion ; research ; resettlement ; running ; sad ; safety ; sexual orientation ; sexuality ; siblings ; solidarity ; speech ; straight ; support ; survival ; survivor ; tension ; time ; tolerance ; top ; tough ; training ; transgender ; trust ; video ; violence ; visa ; website ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/last_chance_film_evening_discussion.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089617. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.