The title of this recording is "HLR30 Hands On". It is described as: Creek talks about HLR30 Hands On - a massage event to show appreciation to the people who fought for homosexual law reform in Aotearoa New Zealand. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 8th February 2016. Creek is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 27 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Creek talks about HLR30 Hands On - a massage event in April 2016 to show appreciation to the people who fought for homosexual law reform in Aotearoa New Zealand. The content in the recording covers the decades 1980s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: The podcast titled "HLR30 Hands On," recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand, features an interview with Creek, conducted by Gareth Watkins. The discussion centers around an event in April 2016 intended to honor those who fought for homosexual law reform, marking the 30th anniversary of such activism. Creek, a non-academic yet passionate member of the queer community since the age of 18, emphasizes the importance and healing nature of safe physical touch in a society Creek perceives as touch-phobic. The HLR30 Hands On event scheduled for April 2nd and 3rd, 2016 at Thistle Hall is a volunteer-driven massage and bodywork appreciation initiative targeted at activists of the homosexual law reform movement 30 years prior. The variety of massage services aimed to include relaxation massage, deep tissue massage, Bowen technique, and craniosacral therapy, among others. Creek underscores how criminalization, synonymous with body shaming and societal stigma, has left an indelible mark on bodies and psyches, suggesting that the act of physical touch through massage can provide a therapeutic and acknowledging encounter. Creek's engagement with massage therapy stems from a practical competency in relaxation massage, a departure from Creek's professions in media. The personal drive towards this profession arose from an early exposure to massage manuals while working in a print shop, and later, a formal certification gained from the Lotus College of Natural Therapies. Creek links a personal longing for more affection during upbringing to the reward found in providing non-sexual, safe touch to others. Creek also discusses societal touch aversion, attributing it to fear of imperfection and germs, propagated by a barrage of media and advertising. Expressing a conviction that emotional memory can be stored in the body's cells, Creek sees massage as a medium for potentially releasing long-held tensions, although not necessarily aiming for cathartic experiences. The organization of HLR30 Hands On involves deliberate outreach to encourage former activists to receive massages and to invite volunteers who are trained in various forms of bodywork to participate in the event. The terminology used in this outreach attempts to bridge generational language shifts, from older terms like gay and lesbian to more contemporary queer identities. Creek expresses admiration for trailblazers like the Topp Twins, Carmen Rupe, and Georgina Beyer, who countered shame with bold unashamedness. While Creek self-funds HLR30 Hands On with some side income, fundraisers, including a film screening organized by Jack Lynch, help offset costs for transporting volunteers and activists to the event. As Creek grapples with the planning and administrative aspects, the hope is that the event may become an annual occasion. However, it would require a more extensive committee for organization in the future. The recording also alludes to shifts in awareness and activism within Aotearoa New Zealand's queer community, from the homosexual law reform movement and civil union legislation to the more recent achievement of marriage equality. Creek's narrative combines personal life experience with a broader commentary on societal evolution, queer identity, and the communal need for acknowledgment, healing, and the power of touch. The full transcription of the recording begins:  My name is Craig, and I believe very strongly in queer community and, um, have been quite immersed or steeped in queer communities since around the age of 18, or increasingly, in my twenties. I'm now 33 and I'm not an academic person, although people think probably that I would be I actually am such a slow reader that I have to have practical skills to have fun. Bookish. This is not my fun. So I got a certificate and relaxation massage a few years back, and I am really into the idea of of humans, a few human animals as grooming creatures who who touch one another. And we have, quite now quite a touch phobic society, I think. And that is sad. Um, because safe and and affectionate touches is very, very healing and lovely. Um, and then because there's a whole lot of homosexual law reform 30th anniversary events coming up in Wellington this year, I got to thinking about how, uh, criminalization affects the body and how criminalization is all about shame. It is about society and the state telling people to be ashamed of their bodies, their desires. It criminalises affectionate touch, which is what sex can be. Um, I mean, there's a whole lot of ranges of different kinds of sex. But if if it's all consenting, essentially, it's a kind of touch that is supposed to be good and feel good and good for you and everything like that. So I think that to have an event where where you're using healing and relaxing touch to thank the people who who were activists and protested and who were criminalised um, 30 years ago is is a a nice sort of a thing. So that's why we're doing HLR 30 hands on, and I'm getting together a A small team of volunteers who are both queer, identified and trained in some form of massage or body work like they're not all the same as me. I do relaxation massage, but there's a deep tissue massage provider and, um, Bowen, technique and craniosacral and other things like that. But they're all healing touch, um, and so, yes, I'm getting together a team of people to do that, to offer that as a a sort of a drop in centre that we're setting up at Thistle Hall on the 2nd and 3rd of April in 2016 and and, yeah, we in March, I'll be actively pushing for and inviting people who were activists or who know people who were, because I think there'll be a There'll be a thing where people don't want to put their hands up and come and get massage. So I we'll be encouraging people to refer others on and tell them just how entitled they are if they want to do. Do you think, um, the body can hold on to that? Kind of, uh, that that kind of negative energy, that that tension for that length of time or or does it dissipate? I I believe it can and that, Yeah, I think it even sort of shapes the body, because if you walk around holding your muscle tense unconsciously for a long enough period of time, it kind of becomes a thing, a part of your body, I think, And there would definitely be practitioners who would who would be adamant that it's stored in the cells, that that your body has emotional memory. And I mean, I've certainly seen, you know, like if you massage people long enough, you you do, um, have times where where people start crying on your table because they're remembering something that happened three years ago or you know, why not 30 years ago? I don't know. Um, not that we're aiming to make people cry or or anything like that. It's not necessarily to be cathartic, but certainly I know that at the time that you are experiencing a lot of shame and at the time that you are experiencing a lot of anger or indignation or humiliation or fear at that time. It really, really does affect the body and it is held in your body, and I can't really say how long it is held for. I think that's quite a nebulous sort of a question. But, um, but I think if I were an older activist who had been around 30 years ago, I could imagine myself still having a kind of a a need for that to be recognised and that to be rubbed out of me, I think that would be or it would be nice. Anyway, it would be nice to feel that I was being thanked for my for my bravery. I think they were very brave and courageous. All of them anyone who was not even necessarily out as gay, because I know a lot of people came out as gay and bisexual at that time, but also people who felt that they did need for their own safety to remain in the closet but who, who were supporting others who were who were out on the streets or public, became the public faces of homosexual law reform. Um, we will be offering massages across the board, not not just, um, gay men, but also, you know, lesbian women. Trans women who I believe almost certainly enjoyed as much persecution as gay men at that time. Yeah, and a lot of other kind of queer identities who were involved in the campaign. Um, I cannot really get my head around how it must have been to have lived in that time when there isn't any Internet, and I grew up in a pre Internet time. So I do understand that, but to have lived in a pre Internet time when you've got this massive need for connection with your community and for your community, to need your community that way and to really desperately need to see that there are others like you to hear their stories to go. I'm OK. Oh, my God. There's so many people who are like me, which we can just get with the touch of a button. Now we just google it, um and they must have. I mean, I know that they communicate like the you know, the small communities did form. They were able to find each other. There were little newsletters and pamphlets and very DIY sorts of ways of sharing their cultural information. But I also think there were people who probably struggled to find that community and to have a sense of community. And so it was a scary time. That's my theory. Scary and brave. Anyone who Anyone who did anything towards homosexual law reform was brave. And, yeah, I'm grateful as a young queer person. So, yes, What was the question? Did I answer the question? You absolutely answered the question. I am wondering, um, I know I do this, but do you ever kind of try to put yourself back, say, 30 years and wonder how how you would have what you would have done? Yes. And that I mean, I guess all I can do is if I can only transpose my young adult adult self now onto my young adult self in the eighties and and I guess that I would have been as fiery and publicly, um, lesbian about it at the time. Um, I think transgender wasn't really a transgender male. Transgender masculinity wasn't so much of a thing. Maybe Butch was. I think I probably have been a butch. Liz. Um um, and I would have I would have been protesting and campaigning on on behalf of the guys, but that's it's important to make a distinction. I think that, you know, female bodied people were never criminalised, so it was in a way easier for them, safer, simply safer for them to be loud and proud and out. And you know, of course, there were gay men who were also but just it was probably scarier and less safe for them to be out. I don't know. But so to answer that question, I can only answer it from a female bodied perspective, which is to say, Well, I, I think I would have been loud and obnoxious and rude to all the streets. Yes. Are there any activists or people from that period that you like really look up to or that really kind of stand out to you? I, you know, I really, really admire, uh, the top twins who I didn't think I used to think because they were on TV three. They were quite mainstream. And But then I saw the top twins, the movie, and I realised just how radical they are and were, um, not just around homosexual law reform, but also around the Maori rights movement as well. Um, yeah, they're they're brave and really choice. And I also I also really admire the likes of Carmen Rope and Georgina buyer, um for for sort of the same reason, just being out and proud and unashamed. I think, you know, like countering shame with UNASHAMEDNESS is the boss, and that's yeah, that's what they did. It's not to say, as I've said, you know, we we'll be massaging people who were in the closet. We we it's not. It's not, um, it's not a bad thing to have been in the closet back then or to be in the closet now, But in terms of role models, I have to look to the ones I can see. I guess so, Yeah. When you're, um, massaging people for this event, are you trying to also draw out stories Or it's simply just a a massage. And that's simply just to massage and and provide relaxation therapy and appreciation. Yeah. I mean, they'll be It's not like we'll be shutting down anybody who wants to talk. And they may very well want to reminisce and talk or as a when you're trained in massage, you kind of there's some kind of hm not counselling element that goes with it. But just that you you do allow people to you make space for them to say things if they need to say things and that Yeah. So, yeah, we'll see. What? What got you into relaxation massage? Um, well, in my in my profession, I work over in, um, media and, um, and when I was very young, like a 18, I worked in a print shop that lead me eventually into media and and working in the print. I would do some proof reading and that lead me intermediate. And in the print shop, we were publishing some massage manuals for a massage massage school nearby that was in London. Um, and I just while I was busy photocopying and collating all the binding binding them. And then I would read them, and I just thought, Wow, this this sounds really doable. Like it's not. It's not hard, like like it's not massively complex or you, I don't know, don't have to be a specifically special person to be able to get your head around this stuff and do it. And yeah, it just stayed with me. How interesting and and attractive to me, That was, um And so then when I moved back home to Dunedin the next year Oh, it might have been a few years, but I eventually enrolled in at the Lotus College of Natural Therapies down there, which is not, um, not not like a You don't do sort of like a two year where you can do a two year diploma thing, but they also do sort of 20 week, 10 week tin week and then, uh, first aid certificate. And also you get assessments. You have to do 100 hours of practical to get your certificate, and and that was like a good amount of study and learning for me to be able to stick to and do it and follow through And um, yeah, just It's so different from reading books or anything to do with words on the paper and it's so human And yeah, I think growing up I I wanted more affection than I received from my mother in particular. And so it's really nice to be able to kind of, um, be in a be in a like a safe body touch contact role with other people as well. Like, I mean, I find it rewarding as well to to give affection, not to touch. Does affectionate sound make it sound like it's sexual? It's not sexual. It's very boundary and good. Um, but it's just so human. It's so humane. And that is what appeals to me about it. It's interesting what you were saying earlier about how we are so, um, averse to kind of touch now. And I'm just wondering if you could, um, kind of expand on that. So you know why? And, um, it seems such a human need, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know. I mean, it's when I say that I I'm speaking as a as a westernised white person who sort of lives a reasonably middle class kind of life. I guess I think my job is quite middle class or something. I don't know. I think why? I think that there would be a nexus between our touch phobia and the kind of like onslaught. We're constantly seeing billboards and media and advertising that make us feel afraid of germs. Um are ashamed of bodies like body, body hair and, um, any kind of blemishes or imperfections. And maybe we're sort of maybe we've become afraid in our own skin, and it makes us afraid to touch others as well. Maybe it's Yeah, maybe it's individuals going around afraid in their own skin rather than necessarily actually afraid of everybody else. But we project our fear of ourselves on to other people as well. I don't know. That's a theory. Has there been like a similar event in terms of massaging kind of older activists before? Or is this something completely new? Uh, well, one of my one of the team of volunteers, um, says he's done elders appreciation days. Um, before I think that might be based, and he's a lomilomi practitioner. And I think he I think he's gone out to and done that. Yeah, not necessarily because they were activists. But on the other hand, just by living your life, You you you are kind of an activist, if you know what I mean. Like, if you're if you're belong to any group that is marginalised or needs to stand up to a bully at any point, then by living your life steady and confident and proud and just being in and of yourself, then you are an activist. Hm? Do you like that word activist? I do. I think I have a problem with it. Yes, I like it. And and some of the other language you're using. So you you're using words like queer. Um What? Yeah, I mean to to talk to me about language because I mean I. I find it really interesting how people either identify themselves or identify groups. Yeah, and in particular with that, I think with that generation from the seventies and eighties who who were protesting back then, there may have been perhaps fewer identities with under the queer umbrella floating around like that. I think we're mostly talking about people who would have identified as gays, lesbians, maybe transsexuals or transvestites as well at that time, Um, and obviously, bisexuality. I don't know if you know about that. There's a lot of conflict between the lesbian identified and the bisexual identified women at at that time. Um, and I know that some from that generation object to the object to the term like they don't. It's not that they object so much as they don't identify with the term queer, because for them it was maybe too abusive that it hasn't been reclaimed. Others, I think, have reclaimed it. It's different for them and then, yeah, trans trans identities, like I think of Butch as a form of transgender um, identity. And for me, it's trans masculine, and that is what I am. I'm I feel like I've got a lot of parallels with people who medically transition and need to transition. I don't feel the need to do that, Um, and so I don't know, our our generation maybe has a lot of space for a lot of different. You know, we have gender, queer gender fluid, androgynous, non binary. All of these terms, which are quite new that I don't think they were floating around in the seventies and eighties. So terms in terms of terms, I have to make sure that when I when I call for people to come and be massaged, that I do focus on or try to use terms that they actually would likely use for themselves. While also when I'm calling for people to be volunteers, use the the broad scope of terms that are available now. And I guess what I'm hoping is that there's a bridge there that I understand that lesbians are my ancestors. Like that. They are my aunties. People who identify as lesbians are my aunties, as are people who identify as bisexual, as are you know that. And I guess, Yeah, I don't know how much the younger generation necessarily think of those people as their ancestors, even if they don't use the same terms. But I guess I would hope that they can see what that they are inheritors, what they've inherited and socially, if not anything else. I don't know. Yeah. So growing up, can you recall the first? Um, say, um, rainbow queer? Um, thing in the in the media. So you know, like a political event. So, like we had homosexual law reform in the mid eighties, which you would have been born, what, 82? I was born in 82. I was four years old, actually. Do you Do you remember that? Uh, I can remember John Banks on the radio on on on, um, what was he on Radio Pacific? Maybe at that time, I do remember him having rants about stuff. Although I feel like that would have been in 1989. So I don't know what he was ranting about then. But I, I kind of remember there was a bit of a tremble in the household when that law was passed or something. Probably. Yeah, after law reform. I mean, what what's the next big bit of kind of legislation or kind of political movement in the in the queer communities that you you I'm aware of the civil unions and there's 2005, isn't it? And so then 2006 was the 20th anniversary of homosexual law reform, which I believe you did a thing on Radio New Zealand's website, um, about Commemorating it at that time. So I remember civil unions, and I remember the 20th anniversary of homosexual law reform. And, yeah, I definitely fought for civil unions. Although I wanted gay marriage and I thought civil unions was a a trick, um, to to keep us as second class citizens, um, while pretending that it was equal. But I don't I don't believe that. And so I'm glad that we got gay marriage in the end, because then that was 2013 gay marriage, same sex marriage. Bill was passed. Um, then that's good. And now I'm married, and I never was civil unionised, and I'm pleased about that anyway. Yeah, as far as I know. But I guess what did we have? The Human Rights Act is 1991. Bill of Rights. Uh, 93. 94 Early nineties. Yeah. Yeah. And that includes provisions for no discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Yeah, so? OK, so there's the timeline. You are 94 is the next one, then civil unions and then gay marriage. So do you remember things like, Say, were you in Wellington when the Destiny Church marched? No, I was still living in Dunedin, but we definitely did things to counter Destiny Church in Dunedin. I can remember making firewood with Brian Tamaki stencilled onto it like a stack of fire. The stencils of Brian for burning like witches. Um, yeah, that was definitely scary. And again, there's Georgina Baer on the steps of Parliament. Just shout. I don't know whether she shouted down the marches and she don't know if she was face to face with Brian. I can't remember, but I know that that was like that was electrifying. Watching me on telly, it made me cry. She's awesome. I hope she will come and get a massage. How is that going? How's it going? Finding finding activists? Um, well, I've got sort of more of a time plan at the moment. I'm really focused on getting my volunteer team together and, you know, making sure it's a reliable team who will show up and, um, getting the kind of framework around the event in place. I have to think about the tables and screens and things like that in March, which is next month. For the listeners listening March is the big drive to to get, get people to make bookings and come to us but the thing that there's interest in it, um, as a general idea and, yeah, I mean it. Always as someone who's kind of involved in the massage world. It it seems like an easy enough thing for me to go and get a massage. Um, but I know that there are lots of people out there who have never had a massage, and it would be really good if people are curious about the having one who've not had one before. I hope that we can create an environment where they can feel trusting enough to bring themselves and 41. That would be really awesome. So hopefully that will, that will work out. Is there anything that, um, we can do to help out? Are you calling for people listening? Oh, yeah. If people, if people want to get involved um, II. I need I need a couple of runners to be basically laundering during the day. There's a There's a laundry directly across the road, uh, and we'll have to be washing towels and drying them and bring them back to the hall, the hall, maybe someone to be in the kitchen having cups of tea ready and stuff for for both the activists and the ma. If you're listening and you are actually a queer trained massage therapist, I've got about eight volunteers at the moment, but I can still use more. Um and so, yeah, if you are keen, please visit the website. Will you put a link to the website? I'll just tell you the website. It's HLR 30 hands dot org. Um, and yeah, you might be able to join the team. That would be awesome. And also, we are going to train a small group of people who are not trained in massage or body work to be able to do, um, just some feet massages and head, neck and shoulder massages, and that will be so that activists can come in. They don't have to make an appointment. They can just drop in, have a foot massage or, like 15 minute foot massage or head, neck and shoulder massage. And um, yeah, we'll be running a training day for that, probably early March. If people are interested in in that side of it, that would be cool, too. Is this something you'd like to see happen like, say, annually? Or it's quite stressful to organise it. Um well, it's not something that I wouldn't like to see happen annually. I think it would be really cool to have it happen annually. I guess I would need more of an organising committee thing to help plan it out if I were to do it annually. I don't mind Project managing, but it does mean that I'm thinking in the future a lot. And I don't I prefer to be just thinking in my present day, I'm at heart. I am a miss massager a miss, And, um, I just happen to be organising this thing now, So yeah, it would be cool if it would happen every year. I don't know if I will organise it every year. So you've got, uh, volunteers. What about kind of funding? How is this? Has this been funded? Cool. So, I, I don't work as a professionally I do it from time to time to get my hand in, so I have a reasonably ok paid job. So I am self funding this project with with my with my side monies of which I don't actually have heaps of disposable income, But so that's why we're doing some fundraisers. Um, one is the indomitably community spirited? Uh, Jack Lynch is organising a film screening, which will be on the sixth of March. I think that's a Sunday at Lighthouse Cuba, and the film is called. Is it like the Woman in the Van or Yeah, The Woman in the Van, which stars Maggie Smith. It's about this woman who parks up in someone's driveway and just lives there for 15 years or something. I think the guy is a famous. Is Alan Bennett a famous person? He's famous in some way anyway. So it's just this movie about this woman who just moves into the sky's driveway, which sounds pretty cool. And I think tickets are 20 bucks, of which of which 11, or of which nine goes towards HLR, 30 Hands on. And there's a Facebook event for that which you should be able to find on Facebook. If you go to Jack Lynch's page or find Jack Lynch. Everybody knows Jack. So just ask Jack, Um and, um, and that would be really, really awesome just because Oh, yeah, well, I should note that a couple of this is a national event because I'm flying up. Two Miss two, Miss Miss One and one from Dunedin and one Maus or from Auckland. Um, when I say that, I don't know what pronouns they use. I don't know whether they'll be masseuse or massager from Auckland. So So people are coming from Auckland and dude and I'm just buying the flights at the moment. And so that's the sort of thing that that, um contributions will go towards covering is is transport. Um, we hope to be able to have activists come down from up the coast as well, and we'll make sure that the train trip is covered or petrol is covered or whatever, so they don't have to pay to get themselves into town for a massage. Um, things like oil, food screens, stuff like that, that they're the sorts of costs that we need help with. And also, I myself am giving a AAA relaxation massage once a week at home. We have a studio room there, um, for 30 bucks, which is quite a good deal. It's a full body massage. That's once a week between now and April, the 2nd and 3rd, which is our event. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1980s ; 2010s ; Alan Bennett ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Auckland ; Brian Tamaki ; Carmen Rupe ; Christmas ; Civil Union Act (2004) ; Coming Up ; Creek ; Cuba ; Destiny Church ; Dunedin ; Events ; Geneva ; Georgina Beyer ; God ; HLR30 Hands On ; Homosexual Law Reform ; Human Rights Act (1993) ; Jac Lynch ; Job ; John Banks ; Jools Topp ; Kawika Aipa ; London ; Lotus College (Dunedin) ; Lynda Topp ; Marriage Amendment Act (2012) ; Māori ; Pacific ; People ; Radio New Zealand ; Radio Pacific ; Space ; Stuff ; Tamaki ; The Closet ; The Lady in the Van (film) ; Thistle Hall ; Topp Twins ; United Kingdom ; Wellington ; activism ; advertising ; affection ; ancestors ; androgynous ; anger ; animals ; billboards ; binary ; binding ; bisexual ; board ; body image ; body issues ; books ; boundaries ; bravery ; butch ; button ; campaigns ; choice ; church ; civil unions ; class ; closet ; community ; conflict ; criminalisation ; crying ; discrimination ; disposable income ; elders ; emotional ; energy ; environment ; face ; fear ; film ; first aid ; flying ; fun ; funding ; future ; gay ; gender ; gender fluid ; google. com ; growing up ; healing ; hit ; hlr30hands. org ; homosexual ; homosexual law reform ; hope ; human rights ; identity ; indigenous peoples ; indigenous rights ; internet ; kink ; language ; laundry ; law ; legislation ; lesbian ; listening ; mainstream ; marae ; march ; marriage ; marriage equality ; masculine ; masculinity ; massage ; media ; middle class ; other ; persecution ; plan ; pre-internet ; pride ; pronouns ; protest ; publishing ; queer ; radio ; rainbow ; reading ; relaxation massage ; role model ; running ; safety ; school ; sex ; sexual orientation ; shame ; social ; stress ; study ; tension ; therapist ; time ; top ; touch ; touch phobic ; training ; trans ; transexual ; transgender ; transition ; transmasculine ; transmasculinity ; transport ; trick ; twins ; unashamed ; unions ; volunteer ; website ; witness ; women ; work ; writing. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/hlr30_hands_on.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089693. Creek also features audibly in the following recordings: "Creek - Butch on Butch", "Reflecting on HLR30 Hands On" and "Lesbian Visibility Day panel". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.