The title of this recording is "Hinemoana Baker profile". It is described as: Hinemoana Baker talks about being a writer, musician and teacher. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 11th March 2010. Hinemoana Baker is being interviewed by Wai Ho.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 27 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Hinemoana talks about being a writer, musician and teacher. The content in the recording covers the 1970s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: During a 27-minute interview recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand, Hinemoana Baker discusses various aspects of life, threading together strands of personal and professional experiences. As an individual of mixed heritage with Maori roots from their paternal side and European ancestry from their maternal side, Baker has carved out a diverse career as a writer, musician, teacher, sometime producer, and a counselor for individuals attempting to quit smoking. Baker's passion for writing and music has been a lifelong journey, beginning with an ambitious book-writing attempt at the age of eight. Throughout their teenage years and into university, poetry became a significant outlet for expression, leading to formal literary education, including a master's course with Bill Manhire. Despite the early critique, Baker persevered, and writing remained a fixture of their identity, aligning with the advice once given by their accountant to pursue what one loved doing as a child. In their personal life, Baker opens up about being bisexual and the nuanced reactions of familial support and aversion they've encountered. Despite certain family members' adverse reactions, Baker felt a sense of acceptance from their parents, who supported their literary and musical endeavors, although they misunderstood the implications of Baker being bisexual. Professionally, Baker has experienced highs, such as having their first poetry book co-published by Victoria University Press and actor Viggo Mortensen, which significantly raised their profile. Likewise, their music journey has included a unique collaboration with their partner, Christine White, in a duo that incorporates unconventional instruments to create a singular aural landscape. Baker touches upon the challenges of depression, an underlying struggle that has affected their ability to create consistently. However, they approach it with proactive strategies and are candid about the impact of mental health on their artistic process. Reflecting on their creative work, Baker articulates an abiding interest in sound, whether through poetry, music, or field recordings. They describe a particular project undertaken in Australia involving sonic poems, and they speak of embarking on writing a novel, a new and arduous adventure for them. Throughout the interview, Baker also addresses the intersection of identity and art. They discuss feeling othered and occasionally typecast based on their Maori heritage, urging a wider recognition of artists and individuals as multifaceted beings rather than constrained identities. Themes of inclusivity and the evolving nature of labels and identification permeate Baker's perspective. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Um, and in my spare time, I work with them. It doesn't sound like there will be much after that. So I'm a writer and a musician, and, um, on my dad's side, I'm Maori. I come from those, um, for and on my mom's side. Her people are from, uh, England and Germany or Bavaria, to be precise. And, uh, I work as a writer and musician and and as a teacher and sometime producer. And in my spare time, I work for quit line, helping people give up smoking. Yeah, she have You always written and song? Well, since I was, I can remember. My first book was when I was eight, sitting on on the steps of our little state house in and a, uh and I was writing. I can't remember exactly what, but it had lots of chapters, and there was a shipwreck in most of those chapters. So that's what I remember from that book. Fortunately, the manuscript hasn't survived. Probably probably sea damaged. Um, and then I remember, like writing poetry through my teens angsty angsty poetry in my teams, and, uh, then I yeah, at university, I showed it to a to a literature, um, lecturer. And he was kind enough not to say it was dreadful. Um, he said something like, you could turn the volume down a little bit or something like that, You know, something kind, but useful. Um, And then I did a course at Vic at Victoria with Bill Man hire before it turned into the huge monolithically. Fabulous thing it is now. And then I did the Masters, which was monolithically fabulous. Um, and that was in 2002, so Yeah, pretty much from when I was eight. I mean, I've said this before in other kind of places, but my accountant used to say that if you know, you should do for a living what you were doing for fun when you were eight. Wow. Yeah. Other people have said 77 years old. I've been making for for for, like, houses, houses. And so, Yeah, I hear there's a position going for that building New Zealand or something. That's right. For maker. Yeah, I just saw it the other day, so I guess I was right. He was counting money, and I was writing a little book, so Yeah, it's all always worked out, except we just need to get you into that fort making position would be all sweet. And were you always encouraged to write, or was there a real kind of anti artist thing? Oh, they don't make money, and they they're always depressed. And they No, not really. There was. No, Um I think that basically, my parents were just pleased that I was alive and yeah, and kind of saying and getting some good marks at school and and stuff. Um, they were proud of me for the English, you know, achievements I made in English and thought I was going to be a journalist. So I did journalism for a while, and then I kind of thought kind of realised that as a journalist, your your best day is everybody else's worst day, you know? And I just couldn't carry on. I couldn't carry on, too. I'm too sensitive. So such a sensitive flower. So? So I left it alone. And really, they haven't. They haven't hassled. I mean, they do worry that I'm not in my own mansion and all of that, but I'm too old for them to really have any say now. Yeah, and around being have they always been supportive about that, or is it much choice? You know, I mean, I've just been quite bossy, I think, um I mean, my mom was sad and thought that it meant that she wouldn't have any Children. Um, which is not necessarily true. As we know, my dad was like, Oh, right, OK, he was a bit shocked, I think. But not so as you've noticed. He just He's always really rolled with it, Dad A And they've both really embraced my partners, my various partners, male and female and varying orientations. Yeah. So, um, I haven't got any complaints in that department, which is great. The rest of my family, most of them have been good. A couple have been really vile, but, um, we just don't see them anymore. And have you always known Oh, when when do you kind of remember? First? I remember first thinking, um, you know, I fell in love with my best friend. Didn't we All if we were really honest, I fell in love with my best friend when I was, um, you know, 14. And, um, you know, I felt feelings with you that perhaps she didn't feel for me, but I didn't really have any words to describe it at that point. But, you know, when I did start describing it, you know, a couple of years later, I've always thought, Oh, you're bisexual. That's cool. That's me. I'm I'm fine with that. You know, I haven't really, ever had any lack of self acceptance around it. Uh, I don't know where I got those positive vibes from, because there's a lot of negative vibes out there I've found out later. Um, but there was nothing no kind of negative stuff when you were at school or not that you picked up on that. I picked up when you were buried in a book. I was probably buried in a book. Um, yeah, possibly. I just I mean, I knew that it wasn't an ok thing to say that you were, you know, out loud as a teenager at school. But I didn't feel that myself. I felt quite comfortable with it myself. Yeah, and always have. Yeah. So I don't have any of those stereotypes of bisexuals being, you know, promiscuous or, um, you know, disingenuous liars who are just gonna play with you and then and all of that stuff. I just missed out on all of that. I'm quite glad, really, Because it have you been confronted with other people's views on over and over again. So boring. Absolutely. It's just that thing that people think that it's more to do with the label bisexual than the actual person being an asshole, right? You know, people can be assholes from all sorts of persuasion. So, um, not denying that there are There are bisexual people of, you know, I repute, but I really don't think there's a higher percentage of us, that whole thing about the difference between, um being monogamous and and non monogamous, who gets mixed up with being bisexual again. Not that there's anything wrong with either, but, uh, it's not the same. People say, you know, you're in a halfway house, you're not making a commitment. You're not political enough. You blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, just me as one person I can I can. In the life I've led, I can refute every single one of those claims, and I'm sure I'm not alone, so I think we should. That's a great dress. Can you just have a look at that dress? It's fantastic. It's this woman. It's a little pink dress and it's actually got a hoop. But it's only a ring in the hoop. Hoop can store things under it. That's right. Who knows what's going on under the hoop? So, yeah, I'll stop raving and renting a bit about that now. And did you grow up in Wellington or in I grew up all over and Nelson mainly, and I've lived in Wellington and the environs of Wellington for the last 15 years. Terrifyingly, Yeah, since I got back from, um actually, since I got back from, I was in, uh, England and Europe and Zimbabwe for for a few years. When I got back from there, it was 92. So yeah, it's it's actually been about 18 years. Wow, that's all right. Yeah. And have you always had a, um Well, assuming you identify as an adult, has it been difficult as an adult kind of maintaining that creative process to keep kind of not just producing, but keep creating? And I've had I've had the good fortune of having some massive boosts along the way. So, um I mean, getting into the course, Getting into the master's course at the Tuna modern metres was a massive boost to my confidence. So that kept me going for a few years. And then my first poetry book was was co published by Victoria University Press, who are here in Wellington, but also Vigo Mortenson from Lord of the Rings, which is an insane It just doesn't It just doesn't sound like it would ever happen to a normal person, let alone a poet. Um, so I mean, that was just that was one of those incredibly strange but wonderful boosts to to my confidence and, um, my star rating. You know, my celebrity status went up massively. You can Google Vigo's name and, like my name actually sometimes comes up along. You know, he's like Hollywood. Um, he's a lovely guy. Actually. He was awesome. He was incredibly busy, but took the time to actually do some editing and produce this amazing book that's got pictures and freaking CD in the back and a hard cover. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. I was the most hated poet in New Zealand for some time After that probably still am, Um and then I've had other boosts along the way. Oh, you know, like in my music. We got asked to play at last year. I mean, did you have a band or you just self titled as yourself? I'm self titled as a soloist. And then I have a duo with my partner, um, Christine White and our duo is called, and we do strange. We do folk pop type songs, but with strange ambient sonic art type instruments made out of kitchen utensils. So that's quite fun. I don't know whether it was quite what were expecting kind of kitchen U, anything. Anything made of steel. Chris Chris, um, makes contact mics, tiny little mics, so she puts them under a steel plate on a black and decker workbench. And then we use a cello bow, and we put steel things on top of that steel plate, and we bow those steel things so it could be could be a cheese grater, or it could be a wine rack. Um, what else have we got? We've got those little oven racks, you know, that Go and grills O grills. They all make different sounds and They all sound like different creatures. So that's where the farm. Yeah, came from. So you kind of are doing what you were doing when you were eight around? Yeah. You're right. Yeah. And what else you were saying? Um, has it been hard to maintain? Uh, the main thing that's been difficult to get around is, um, not actually. You know the financial side of it or or the, um, routine. I don't really. It's the fact that I have depression. So, um, I've had several bouts of severe depression over my life, and that just makes me really dysfunctional, and it makes anything seem worthless and hopeless and stuff. So, um, I've had to be really disciplined about how to how I handle that. And I've got a really good worry. That was because you're an artist with all the artist. That's right. I think I don't know how that stereotypes got out there. Really? Because I'm sure you know it doesn't discriminate. Um, depression doesn't discriminate. I mean, you know, John coins got all black. Um, but I did. I guess it took me a while to take it seriously myself. I don't know whether that's because of that or because it just seemed like, you know, people say everyone's got depression, but yes, that's true. A lot of people do have it, but not everyone you know wants to die every day. So once it got to that point, I was like, Well, once it got to that point again, I, you know, went and got some help. And, um, I've got fantastic kind of wanting to die that made you go. Oh, this might be a bit serious. It was that, plus the fact that oh, as if it is not enough. Um, it was just that. I see. I've just got this ridiculous. I've got a kind of pathological independence that I'm like, I've got to fix it myself. I've got to do it myself. And it wasn't even so much a stigma about taking medication or anything like that. But I think I did have that. But it was more to do with, you know, I think basically a distrust of Western medicine as well. And, um, a distrust of handing my health over to somebody else, which is quite in some ways, quite good. So what? What that's meant is, I've I've have asked for help. But I also continue to do all of these other strategies and techniques regularly, like ridiculously regular exercise and sleep and, you know, journaling and all sorts of other techniques that I just can't let them drop, which is actually quite good. It means that, um, I'll live a long and fabulous life. And so, um what What? How would you describe your work for someone? Who who? Maybe on the other side of the world that doesn't know who you are or doesn't know To Google Vigo. Mortenson. I don't know if there's anyone in the world who doesn't know who I am. Hannah, Of course. Um, how about aliens? Aliens? Oh, yeah. So I guess my work, um, what I do creatively would be I'm very interested in sound. So sometimes that takes the form of the sound of poetry or the sound of music The sound of music or, um, you know, um, found sounds. Yeah, like, um, field recordings, those kinds of things. Most recently I've produced. I was doing a residency in Australia and II. I wrote a whole lot of texts, but I also did field recordings in all these Outback locations and put them together. So it's a kind of sonic poem. So that's That's the thing that I'm most interested in at the moment that said, I've just started a novel like an idiot Boy novels are real hard. They're so long. Oh, my God, they're so long And there's a lot to know about writing prose. So I'm kind of a beginner there, but I'm I'm working on it. I'm doing it cause that shift I've got one story I really want to tell based on my dad's childhood. So it just doesn't seem to work telling it in any other way. I wish me luck with that. Good luck. That is. So you've, um you did a residency in Brisbane. Have you done residencies elsewhere? I did. Writing on your your fame with The Lord of the Rings. Yeah, I should be doing a middle earth residency. Um, I've done one short residency very early on it at the Stout Research Centre. It was a Reader's Digest fellowship. I wrote most of my first album there, so that was awesome. Very grateful for that. Um, but apart from that no, that's my only residency residencies are um, a bit of a coup in a way because only one person can get them. So I've had other assistance. Like I've had, um, money from Creative New Zealand and stuff. It's probably better, in some ways, for me to apply for those funding things rather than residencies. Because, like my publisher said, once you know, only one person can get the residency, but they can divide the money out amongst. So when I do apply, I often prefer to apply for funds. But that Brisbane thing was a bit of an exception. They invited me to apply because I did. I did a gig for them a couple of years beforehand, and they really liked me. So they invited me to apply, and I said, Hell, yes. And then I got it. So, yeah, that was three months of Australia, very different to New Zealand. And, um, I. I wrote crap loads over there, which was great and produced that CD while I was over there, too, because I'm an overachiever, Um, and just kind of examining my my emotional reactions to being there as well, because I I had these massive crying jags. I don't know where they came from just huge. I mean, maybe I was homesick. I don't know, but they would just, you know, Come on. I was in the laundry or I was, you know, just got off stage or whatever. Um, so just exploring that, Like where that was coming from, Uh, the landscape over there. So extraordinary. Oh, my God. The outback. Oh, God. It couldn't be more different to New Zealand. Vast and silent, You know, when you really get down to it And old, So old. So after I got over my anxiety attacks from being that far from the coast is, you know, the Sea maiden that I am, Um it was awesome. Actually. I felt profoundly calm. Hm. Well, where did you, um, I guess drive or influences or to create stuff. Has it Have you always been like that? Don't know. Or have there been kind of certain events or people? Or I guess I feel an urge to, um, mouth off about things, whether they're political or personal. Kind of. I've always sought some kind of publishing, so I guess that's what performing is in a way. It's publishing, publishing my take on things and So is the poetry. I do feel I do feel that urge, but it's definitely more towards. At the moment, it seems to be more towards the publishing rather than the performing, because performing, um, takes it out of me a lot. I don't have a character that I become, you know, that I can protect myself with. So it's just me up there on stage and particularly if I do one after the other, I get really knackered, so veering towards the talking in the books rather than talking on the stage at the moment. So is it quite a solitary process? I mean, apart from your, um, band band with Is it quite solitary? And you just potter around in your own home room and your own shed? Or I mean lots of people. No, I don't. I try to I try to avoid people. Um, people are my biggest curse, you know, Um, it is quite solitary. I'm I'm easily distracted, so I have to be quite staunch with that. In your report cards easily distracted the one thing they used to write in my Plunket book, which I've just been reading recently. It is so funny loves all food growing, well, pudding for dinner. But no on my on my report cards. No, I was always a bit of a nerd, not distracted too much. But as an adult, obviously that's all gone downhill. Um, but it is fairly solitary, except I have a great writing group that I meet with regularly. We've been meeting for like, six years. It's quite rare for a writing group. How long do they usually last that long? Not that long. So that's been awesome. Great Touchstone to have. And I mean, the residency was awesome. I need to say, too, that it was Arts Queensland who gave me that residence. Got them. You didn't get eaten by a crocodile and it was so good. And, um, the poetry festival also. And the Judith right centre was where I stayed. And the Judith right centre is this amazing centre of contemporary arts in Brisbane. And I mean, when I was there, I realised how vibrant the scene is there, and it is vibrant here as well, but in different ways. And it's really happening there, and everything just seems a little bit more prosperous. You know, I'm not I'm not being all down on New Zealand or anything, but it was good to see my eyes opened a little bit on that level. Um, and so, yeah, being over there, I felt less isolated, and it was a least solitary process, you know? Did you notice that there was a kind of characteristic of, um, New Zealand writers or when you're over there, kind of compared to the other people? Well, I felt for myself that I was way more self conscious than, um than the artist, you know, like I was, too. So we have, like, tall poppy styles going on, or I think so. Something like that. I just People over there are like, Yeah, let's do it a bit more gung ho, Bit more confident, um, artistically, really hard working. And, um, I brought that back with me, That feeling of like, Yeah, I'm just gonna do it. Whatever. You know, everyone's allowed to that book. Whatever gets you to the to the chair and sitting down and doing it, taking a few risks. Um, I. I felt really inspired on that level from Australia. So you're working on your novel now and and a whole lot of other things, Or do you constantly do everything at the same time? I was trying to work better on that nowadays. Um no, just the novel and I haven't written the poem for a while, but I'm sure I'll write the odd one. there's a lot to learn with writing a novel. It's such a different animal, and I want to do it properly. I don't want to write this book, and it goes in the bottom drawer like most first novels. So as usual, I'm setting myself unrealistic targets, so I'll get back to you on that one. Do you ever feel, um, I guess, pigeon holed or other as a as a Maori writer or writer or anything Or, um, sometimes I wish that people wouldn't ring and offer me jobs just just because I'm Maori, you know, I'm sure it's not just because of it, but I feel like when is someone just going to offer me a job that's got no Maori things involved with it whatsoever? And I probably wouldn't say yes to it, you know. But it would just be nice to to know that I I was appreciated, I guess, or valued as a as an artist or as a worker for what else? I have not just those, um, those skills and links. Um, but, you know, it's it's a fairly privileged set of problems to have. Um, it's a tricky dynamic. It is a tricky dynamic. I'm not whinging because my life would be a lot worse. Um, I do. I do think sometimes I do feel like sometimes that if people are picking up and reading my book because they want to read a Maori writer that they're gonna be thinking What the Because I guess most of the Maori authors that I read write, you know very differently to me there. Um, maybe, perhaps they're more immersed in the culture on a daily basis. Um, maybe grew up with it more than I did. Um, I feel a little bit other by myself on that level, you know, Um, but by the same token, I'm really proud of it. And I'm really in love with the language and in love with the culture, so it'll always be there. I'm sure for people to do with what they want and how How do you feel about the kind of the whole the whole New Zealand literature poetry scene? Or do you? Do you feel like there is one and you can see what it's doing? Or you just Potter away? Oh, no, I'm I mean I. I don't go to a lot of things because once I'm back home in, it's hard to get me away from the beach. Um, but I do kind of know what's going on, and, um, it's really very vibrant here as well that the literature scene, the poetry scene in particular in Wellington, is just awesome. Do you think it's darker? You know, that whole, um you know, stereotype of New Zealand literature, literature and films being real dark. And do you think that's true or kind of compared when you're in Brisbane? Happy sunny Brisbane, people on the beach. Um, not that I noticed. I mean, the the the subject matter and the content was wasn't markedly different. Yeah, um I mean, what I do notice over there. What I noticed over there is that there is a lot more opportunities for performance poetry. I think in Auckland we're a little bit more well served, uh, than we would be down in well at the moment anyway, because that changes to, you know, events and nights come and go. There's been great events here, like, I don't know if you ever went to there. It was great, um, and other events, But at the moment, I think there's there's a bit of a dear, but, um, yeah, Auckland. There's things happening in general. I mean, it's a huge city, Brisbane and bigger the bigger city. So there's just a lot more going on, but I don't know that dark thing. I mean, I, I love it. So I don't know whether I'd even notice it, you know? So you do enjoy the the the New Zealand literature and poetry scene. I'm listening. I'm I'm getting really into audio books at the moment. So I'm listening to owls Do Cry by Janet Frame. And, um, yeah, I've been reading a lot of Kate Camp's latest book of poetry has actually got owls all over the cover so time. Yeah, it's an owl period right now. Um, yeah, I do really love it. I'll always love it. I'll always feel proud of it and connected to it. Um, I guess what I'd like to say to round things off would be, um yeah, that thing of, you know, other or, um, identity on that level. Uh, I'd really like us to allow our artists to be or our people actually to be what they are, uh, and acknowledge that that can change over time. Um, you know, for myself, I've I've, you know, I've had male partners, and I've I've had a female partner now for, you know, 10 years or something or longer, 12 years. Um, but I do kind of lament that people, you know, even just the other day I was listening to a friend say that she'd finished her relationship with a woman and that she was about to date this guy and and that she wouldn't have to She wouldn't be able to go to the the gay swim team that she normally goes. And and And I laughed because I thought, No, that can't be true. But the other, the other two people in the room are like, No, you won't. And, um Well, they weren't exactly, but they weren't jumping in to say Oh, no, don't be silly. You'll be most welcome. Um, I, I so recognise the the need and the importance of those boundaries. And those, um, you know, queer. Only women only gay, only lesbian only. Absolutely. It's been absolutely vital for my health and my mental well-being over the years. Full respect to that. And yet I'd really like us to be more imaginative with how that, um, evolves in a kind of three dimensional way to match the fact that people are three dimensional. Yeah, or even more more dimensional. So that would be what I'd like to say. And, um, I guess that that means whoever you are, artist, you know, whatever, Chef for builder. However, yeah, that would be my my last word to the world and that that's a great note to end on. Thank you very much for sharing with us and for your time. Pleasure. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1970s ; Australia ; Brisbane ; Creative New Zealand ; Europe ; Events ; Germany ; God ; Hinemoana Baker ; Hollywood ; Job ; Nelson ; Out Loud ; People ; Phuket ; Queensland ; Stuff ; Thailand ; Wellington ; Zimbabwe ; acceptance ; aliens ; anxiety ; artist ; arts ; bisexual ; bottom ; boundaries ; building ; career ; change ; cheese ; children ; choice ; coming out ; confidence ; crying ; culture ; depression ; difference ; dysfunctional ; emotional ; exercise ; family ; feelings ; filming ; food ; fun ; funding ; gay ; health ; hell ; hit ; identity ; journalism ; language ; laundry ; law ; lesbian ; listening ; love ; music ; news ; normal ; other ; parents ; performance ; poetry ; power ; profile ; publishing ; queer ; reading ; research ; respect ; review ; routine ; scene ; school ; sea ; silence ; sleep ; smoking ; stereotypes ; stigma ; takatāpui ; teacher ; the other side ; time ; top ; tough ; trust ; university ; wine ; women ; work ; writing. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/hinemoana_baker_profile.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089145. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.