The title of this recording is "Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith - Chrissy Witoko and Carmen Rupe memorial seats". It is described as: Karen Harris from QUILTED BANANAS talks to Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith about the background to the Chrissy Witoko and Carmen Rupe memorial seats. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 17th September 2022. This is an interview with Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith. The interviewer is Karen Harris. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 29 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Karen Harris from QUILTED BANANAS talks to Gareth and Roger about the background to the Chrissy Witoko and Carmen Rupe memorial seats. The seats will be unveiled on the 1 October 2022 and are located on the corner of Cuba and Vivian Streets, Wellington. The content in the recording covers the decades 1950s through to the 2020s. A brief summary of the recording is: In a recent podcast hosted by Quilted Bananas and conducted by Karen Harris, guests Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith discussed the memorial seats dedicated to Chrissy Witoko and Carmen Rupe. Both guests, influential in the documentation and celebration of Takatapui rainbow history, shared their insights on the event and the memory of these leading figures in the Wellington LGBTQ+ community. Gareth Watkins, a Wellington native and founder of PrideNZ, has focused on capturing LGBTQ+ community history since the 1990s. Roger Smith, originally from Dunedin and now residing in Wellington, is Gareth's partner in life and in work, particularly in Walktours NZ, a company that conducts rainbow walk tours around Wellington city. The interview celebrated the unveiling of two public seats with plaques for Chrissie Witoko and Carmen Rupe. This initiative was intended to memorialize their outstanding contributions to the community. The seats are strategically placed at the intersection of Cuba and Vivian Streets in Wellington, a location central to both Witoko and Rupe's lives. Chrissie Witoko was remembered for managing the Evergreen Cafe, while Carmen Rupe was recognized for their multiple business ventures, including cafes and entertainment spaces, which served as inclusive areas for the rainbow community. The idea for the memorial seats emerged organically from a series of inspirational events paying tribute to Witoko and Rupe. With an initial hope for a single plaque, Gareth and Roger reached out to the Wellington City Council and received an overwhelming response. The mayor endorsed the concept and the council proposed the installation of two seats, exceeding the original expectations of just one plaque. The unveiling ceremony was scheduled for October 1, 2022, during Mental Health Awareness Week, an apt occasion given the link between community support and mental well-being. The ceremony involved speeches from key figures, including the mayor, members of parliament, and relatives of the late Witoko and Rupe. Additionally, it featured the participation of Chrissie's brother, Sai Witoko, and Carmen's executors from Sydney. The interview also highlighted the significance of the memorial to contemporary Takatapui rainbow communities, not only as a tribute to Chrissy and Carmen but also as a symbol of the community's ongoing narrative. The plaques are designed to be affirmative, with Witoko's featuring a proverb highlighting optimism and Rupe's embodying the strength derived from ancestors. Pride NZ, the organization led by Gareth and Roger, has played an integral role in archiving and sharing New Zealand's Pride history through audio recordings and interviews. Their platform preserves important voices and moments in LGBT+ history, serving as a valuable resource for community members and researchers alike. The full transcription of the recording begins:  It's great this morning to have with us, uh, Gareth and Roger from Pride MZ. So, morena. Morena. Ah, kia ora. Great to have you here. So, um, I know that we've, um, got together this morning to have a chat about a specific event that you've, uh, got coming up that we'll, um, talk a little bit more about in a second. Um, but just Gareth and Roger, I know, I know, I know lots of our... Um, listeners will recognize your names and your voices, but um, can you do a little intro for us and tell us, um, who you are and where you're from? Well, uh, kia ora, my name's Gareth Watkins and I'm kind of born and bred in, in, uh, Wellington, New Zealand and have been running Pride NZ for the last, whew, about 13 years. It was 2009 when. Prior to NZ First started, but actually have been doing a lot of, um, kind of documenting of Takatapui rainbow histories way back to the 1990s. Well, kia ora, uh, my name's Roger Smith. I'm originally from Dunedin, uh, but I've spent most of my life here in Wellington. Um, I'm Gareth's husband and, uh, I play a fairly small role as far as Pride NZ goes, um, support and encouragement more than actual physical recording of interviews and things. But together we run Walktours NZ, um, where we do rainbow walktours around Wellington city and have a lot of fun doing that. And we've been doing that for about five years. Yes. Yeah. Oh, is that five years now? I know, I know. We keep saying the same jokes, and keep saying that they're not getting older, but we're getting older, and the jokes are still the same. The laughs aren't getting any stronger, but anyway. No, if a joke's good, it's always worth saying five times. That's what I, uh, always say. Oh, well, thank you for that. And so, um, this morning, um, I got in touch with you, um, because of an event that you've got coming up, um, I think on the 1st of October around, um, the seat unveiling for, uh, Chrissie Whittakow and, uh, Karma Rupa. Is that, can you tell us just a little bit more about that? Yes, well that, that's, that's exactly it really. It's an unveiling, it's a gifting of two, uh, seats, two public seats which will have, uh, plaques on them, uh, one each for Krissi Wutoko and one for, uh, Carmen Rupe, and really they are, uh, memorialising them, uh, and it's a way of remembering them. two leading rainbow figures, um, sadly departed now. Uh, and it's located, the seats will be located on the corner of Vivian and Cuba Streets, which is right in the center, absolutely right, um, bang in the center of where their lives were in Wellington. Carmen had businesses up and down Cuba Street and around that area and along Vivian Street. Um, Chrissy was well known for her business, the Evergreen Cafe, which was just. really just a few meters away from where these seats are going to be. So yes, the event on Saturday the 1st at, uh, 3. 30 is going to be, uh, the unveiling of these two seats. And it's, it's interesting because this, this whole thing has really grown. Um, the original idea we had was, uh, we had been inspired by a number of events that had happened in Wellington over, over the last couple of years. Uh, there was, uh, the common rupee. generation, um, exhibition at the Portrait Gallery a couple of years ago, where people just spoke so fondly of both Carmen and Chrissie. And then very recently there was a, an event at Museums Wellington or Wellington Museum, uh, put on by Le Laniceo. uh, and that was amazing. It was talking about evergreen, remembering about the evergreen coffee lounge, which, uh, Chrissie ran for almost two decades. And again, the warmth and the love shown to both Chrissie and Carmen was so evident that really inspired us. And we thought, Oh, wouldn't it be amazing to have a plaque on, on a seat somewhere in central Wellington. And we were thinking, you know, maybe around the rainbow precinct. by the Rainbow Crossing, um, you know, just one, one part because they are quite expensive to put in. Uh, and we thought, okay, well, let's, um, put that idea out to council. And so we, um, I, I think the colloquial term is spammed, um, as many people in the council as possible. Um, and just seeing, oh, you know, this is actually a really cool idea. Um, we, we, we can, uh, get some private funding for, for part of it. Um, but, you know, with the council come on board. Um, almost immediately we got a response back from, um, uh, the mayor, Andy Foster. I, I, I, I, to be honest, I wasn't expecting the mayor to pick up our email, but he did, which was amazing. Um, and he passed that on, he was very, he endorsed the project and passed it on to the culture and heritage team at the city council and also the transport, uh, public transport team. Um, and they came back to us and they said, look, um, Rather than just one plaque on a seat in Lower Cuba Street, how would you feel if we installed two new seats on the corner of Cuba and Vivian Street and had a plaque for each Carmen and Chrissie? And, well look, it took us about, you know, five seconds to decide that was a good idea. Um, and, and said, wow, that is amazing. And so... Not only are we, um, celebrating, uh, Carmen and Chrissy, but we're also, you know, we think we're kind of extending out that Rainbow Precinct to which was around the kind of, uh, Cuba Dixon Street area to, to, uh, go further up Cuba Street. And hopefully within a couple of years we can make the whole kind of Central Wellington a Rainbow Precinct. Yeah, that would, I like your, um, your aiming big there and, um, but you're right, it kind of, yeah, it does really starts to open it up, doesn't it, from, um, from just maybe the Cuba Street area. So, and I'll ask you a little bit more about Chrissy and Carmen specifically in a moment, but in terms of the actual seat unveiling, so obviously it sounds like the council have been really supportive of that. Um, so, so on the actual day, what will that look like? Will the council be part of that event as well? What will it actually look like on the day? On the day there will be a Ceremony, I suppose you could call it, uh, at S and M's, um, which is really just over the road from where the seats are going to be, um, and the ceremony will involve, uh, some speeches from people including, uh, the Mayor, Andy Foster, um, we're hoping that Grant Robertson will be there and will say a few words, also, um, we will have hopefully, um, Sai Witoku, who is Chrissie's brother, um, saying a few words and, um, For Carmen, Uh, well, we've got, um, some words coming from Carmen's executors in Sydney. Um, and, and, and they're really important because, uh, Jurgen and Robin have, um, been instrumental in, in really, um, uh, remembering Carmen in a whole variety of ways. So, uh, they. brought Carmen's taonga back to New Zealand for going into Te Papa, for gifting into Te Papa. Um, and they were also involved with, um, uh, the Carmen's pedestrian traffic lights on Cuba Street. Um, and so the council has had an involvement with, uh, Eugen and Robin. Uh, I should also say that we have got, uh, Jackie Grant coming up from the West Coast. Um, and Jackie was, um, a close friend of Carmen's, uh, well, and, and Chrissie's. So, um, is of that generation and, uh, will be able to speak, um, firsthand. And, and you think, gosh, you know, um, isn't, isn't it wonderful to have firsthand accounts of Carmen and Chrissie? Which, you know, maybe in, you know, 20, 30 years time, uh, that won't be the case. So after, after the speeches, uh, supported by, I'm really thrilled to say Te Whanau Whanau, we'll cross the road and we will have, uh, an unveiling of the two plaques. And that unveiling is going to involve, um, the lifting of two progressive, uh, rainbow flags. Which, uh, we're hoping to get signed by everyone who is there, uh, and, uh, then they will each be, uh, lifted to reveal these plaques, um, and that will be about 4. 30, we're thinking, uh, on Saturday, the 1st of October. And the, the Master of Ceremonies is going to be Mal Vaughan from Scotty and Mal's, and Scotty and Mal's is 176... Cuba Street. Uh, both Scotty and, um, Scotty and Mel, uh, were absolute friends of, of Carmans and Chrissies, and Scotty and Mel also were instrumental in, uh, forming the Chrissie Wetuku Memorial Trust, uh, which was established shortly after Chrissie died in 2002. And it's been really great to have their support for this project too. Yeah, totally. I mean, um, that sounds like, um, obviously a great specific event, but also like you say, kind of, you know, having back in from people like Chrissy's brother, um, and, you know, people that were, um, Jackie Grant, I think you said, you know, people that, that knew them. Um, and, uh, so that sounds like a pretty, that'll be a pretty emotional day. I would have. I think so. And certainly for us, I mean, not only is it about kind of, um, uh, memorializing Chrissy and Carmen for the extraordinary amount of work they did for, um, bringing the community together and offering safe harbor, uh, because a lot of their businesses were in, in that kind of Cuba Vivian Street area. But it's also about, um, affirming Um, current contemporary takatapui rainbow communities. Um, this, uh, launch is happening, uh, within the Mental health Awareness Week, which is, um, uh, this year. The theme is about reconnecting. And, um, you know, we are very aware, um, of, of the amount of, um, uh, you know, we know of a number of. suicides that have recently happened within our communities, um, and we, you know, we just want to, to make sure, or, or add to, um, or, or to connect people, I guess is, is, is what I'm trying to say, is so that when people actually can walk past the seats, they can see the words Irewhiti Takatapui on the seats, and even if they don't know Carmen or Chrissie, um, hopefully, Erewhiti takatapui will resonate with them. Um, that's a term that we were liaising with gender minorities Aotearoa about in terms of what is the appropriate term. Um, I think, you know, maybe Chrissy and Carmen might have used the word thing, a term like queen. Um, And, uh, you know, that's going back, you know, a few decades. Nowadays, irwhiti takatapui is very much a very respectful term and an umbrella term. And it means more than just gender. There's a great, uh, uh, uh, comment on the General Minority's Aotearoa website where they talk about Erafeti Takatapui. I'll just read it out here because it's great. It says, To stand in our power is, as Erafeti Takatapui, is to carry the mauri, the life force and connection to all things. We are not separate or apart from our culture. We are a part of our culture. We always have been and always will be. Oh, that's yeah, that's amazing. And, um, so, and for you, so it was a conscious decision to hold this during Mental Health Awareness Week then? Oh, absolutely, because I think it just ties so nicely together. Um, that I mean, there was a real, um, impetus from the council to, to want to see these seats in place because, um, it just happened. It was. just completely by chance that they were redeveloping the kind of pedestrian areas around Cuba Street and they're still doing it on a bit lower on Cuba Street. Um, it just happened that our kind of spam request, uh, came in at the same time they were doing that. Um, and it, it was just, just, um, well, I, I, I guess it was meant to happen. Um, I guess so. And the, the, the. The thing is that it really ties in with the theme, uh, this year for the mental health Awareness week, which is reconnect with the people and places that lift you up. And I think this event is doing both of those things and, and we very much, we, we very much wanted the, um, the other wording on the plaques to be, um, affirmational and um, and so on. Uh, Chrissie's plaque. We've got a wonderful Whakatauke proverb that was, um, pointed out to us by MP Tamati Coffey, uh, a few months ago. And it's a Whakatauke that really resonates with him in relation to rainbow communities. Um, and the wording is, turn and face the sun and let the shadows fall behind you. And on Carmen's, on Carmen's plaque, uh, we've got an amazing quote from Ariki Brightwell. And it is, it is your ancestors, your tipuna, that give you the strength to survive today. So both really strong messages, I think. Totally. Yeah. And, um, I hadn't realized about how, um, that how that does all tie in with Mental Health Awareness Week. And, um, that's, that's amazing. And so the event itself is obviously open to anybody to come along. Absolutely. The, the, the first part of the event, which is at, uh, SMS bar is actually a, that's an R 18 restricted venue. So, um, even when they're not serving alcohol, um, it's still R 18. Uh, so that's where the speeches will be. And, uh, we are audio recording those, so if you can't make it or if, if, if. If, um, you're not 18, um, there'll be a chance to hear those speeches online. Uh, the, uh, and the reason we chose SNMs is because, um, Scotty and Mal have such a connection to Chrissy and Carmen, and you could say that what Scotty and Mal do now is what Chrissy and Carmen were doing. you know, 10, 20 years ago. So they are the, um, the kind of the community hub and they offer a lot of opportunities for community events to take place. Um, they're real community builders, aren't they? They are. And they're providing, you know, the hospitality, the sense of community, and just that, that glue, which glues the community together in the same way that, that Carmen and Chrissie did. And. That's another reason why I think that having these two seats as a memorial is such a really lovely idea because, again, it's providing hospitality, it's providing a bit of comfort, uh, in a very busy part of town, um, but now people can just sit and just take a moment and just sort of reflect about what's happening around them, uh, in an area which was absolutely there their part of town, um, back in the day. And we should say that the actual unveiling of the seats is obviously in a public place, so there's no age restrictions, and so that will be at 4. 30 on the Saturday. So there'll be speeches around 3. 30, um, and then everyone's gonna, um, walk calmly out of, uh, S and Ms. Um, we've got the health and safety plan in place, um, and they're gonna walk calmly across the road using the, uh, pedestrian traffic lights, and then there'll be a lovely blessing. Oh, that's great. Oh, I'm glad to hear the health and safety plan is in place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um, that's great. That's such a lovely, I mean, it's obviously, it sounds like a, uh, an amazing event, um, and you've given a really great description there of, of obviously not just what's happening on the day, but, but really the kind of meaning behind it as well. And I just wondered, um, I mean, lots of our listeners obviously will know Chrissy and Carmen, um, not, not personally, but, you know, they'll know who they are and kind of their significance. But some of our listeners won't. I wondered if you could just say a little bit more about. Chrissie and Carmen and their, and who they are. Why is this so, um, significant for, for Wellington? Yeah, well, Chrissie, uh, was born in Hastings, uh, moved to Wellington in the late 1950s. Uh, she worked in lots of clubs and cafes, uh, before she established the Evergreen Coffeehouse, and that was in the early 1980s. She actually, um, took over the business there from Carmen, Carmen Ruppe, who had a business on the same premises. Um, it was at 144 Vivian Street. So yeah, it was just, it's just a few meters down from the corner of Vivian and Cuba. Uh, and that evergreen coffeehouse became a home away from home for so many Takatapui and Rainbow communities, uh, for almost two decades. Um, it was, um, well known, uh, for its toasted sandwiches, um, and, uh, It provided not just a safe space for community members, but it provided employment for community members too, uh, at a time, particularly if you were trans, um, it was, it was difficult if not impossible to, To get a job somewhere doing anything. So that's, um, yeah, that's Chrissie. There's a wonderful quote, um, from J. Benny, who was writing in GayNZ. com, um, a few years ago now. Uh, but when Chrissie passed away in 2002, um, he was reflecting, Her tangi was something to behold. Thousands of people thronged the marae in Newtown. Busloads from out of town, politicians, queens, the high and the low. From all walks of life they came to pay their respects to a woman who all her life showed unflinching respect for everyone she came into contact with. Hmm, that's a lovely, yeah. That's pretty powerful, yeah. And as far as Carmen goes, well, Carmen was a little bit earlier than Chrissy. So Carmen came to Wellington in the early 1960s, first of all. Um, uh, Carmen was an entertainer, a businesswoman, um, a sex worker. Um, an activist. An activist, very much so. And actually a real community icon. And even though she... uh, left Wellington in the early 1980s and moved to Sydney, uh, she's still a Wellington icon, she's still remembered so fondly by, uh, so many Wellingtonians, uh, and she left such a mark on the city for the 12 or so years that she, uh, was living in Wellington in the 70s and early 80s, uh, she had a lot of businesses. She had cafes, clubs, uh, massage parlours, uh, curio shops, about 12 separate businesses, uh, in different parts of town. Many of them in Cuba Street, uh, there's such an entrepreneurial flair, and also, um, you know, she stood for mayor in the late 1970s against Michael Fowler, she didn't win, but she was very, very many years ahead of her time as far as the things that she was, um, advocating for as part of her, um, um, attempt at the mayoralty. I mean, she was wanting homosexual law reform a decade or two decades before it actually happened in the 1980s. She was advocating abortion law reform. Again, that only happened in the early 90s. So yeah, she was so forward looking and ahead of her time and remarkable and, uh, strong and, um, unflappable, a real icon. I think for the two of us who actually never met in person, Carmen or Chrissie, The mark of both those people are in the people that knew them, and when you hear those people talk and when you see what they do now in terms of their actions and their mana and their standing, you think, my goodness, you know, if this is the resonance from what Carmen and Chrissie were, and it still carries on, and you think, This is remarkable. You know, these were remarkable people and, um, Chrissy and Carmen's whānau and friends are remarkable now. And you think, wow, you know, the, the, the, it just, um, I, I kind of feel Carmen and Chrissy, even though we haven't. Seen, you know, met them in person. You feel them from, from the actions of, of, of people like Chanel Hardy now. Mm-Hmm. and, um, Deanne and, uh, Renee, Renee, uh, a whole, a whole, um, range of people. And, um, they are still very much alive, I think now in people's and hearts. That's right. And, and, and through. through the likes of those people too, that we've just mentioned, are a real inspiration. Well, they're a real inspiration to us. And I like the way you describe it. So it's not only the words that we hear about people, although there's been some amazing words to describe, you know, both of them, but also just that feeling you just kind of know, um, because you can sense it from other people as well, about their significance and what they meant to people. and how they will have impacted on so many other people's lives. So, um, well done on your, so, that, and Gareth and Roger for, um, actually pursuing this and, and, and getting it to happen. So you've done it under the, uh, the banner of Pride NZ, which is your... organization that you work for. I wondered if you'd wanted to just say a bit more about PrideNZ, who kind of made this happen. Absolutely. And, um, just to step back a bit. So literally, it has been a month since we sent that email through to the council. So, uh, this has happened very fast. Um, again, yeah, this surprise does as well, but, you know, it was like one of those things that, you know, if somebody's offering it to you, you know, from, from where we started to where we are now, you know. I think it just shows you, you know, you actually just, sometimes you just need to run with it and go, you know, let's, let's do this and let's make it work. Um, so I think a huge thank you to the, um, the teams at Wellington City Council who have really gotten behind this and, um, yeah, yes, it was a community initiative. Going to the council, but actually, um, if it hadn't been for the people inside the council, this would never happen. If they weren't receptive to it, yes. Absolutely, yeah. And that is, that is very fast for, um, yeah, kind of council request. They've obviously not questioned it and just gone with it. That's amazing. Yeah, well I, I, I think actually... Um, it speaks to that, um, that, you know, the civic leaders in Wellington, I think, have been very supportive of Takatapi Rainbow communities for a long time. You know, I think of, um, Justin Lester, I think of, uh, Celia Wade Brown, um, and earlier, you know, people like, um, Mark Blumsky's and, and Fran Wilde, of course, back in the 1990s. And so I think there's, there's this kind of base level of knowledge of, uh, Takatapui Rainbow communities within the, the, the, you know, the, the, the kind of leadership of, um, the civic leaders. And so you, you're not going to them and, and, and they're going, I have no idea who these people are we're talking about. That they already knew, they knew Carmen, they knew Chrissy, um, and, and were very much, um, supporting that idea. Just, uh, briefly about Pride NZ. So, uh, that was, uh, 2009 that started and we've got around about 900. Audio items online at the moment. Um, and that's a whole range of, um, you know, event recordings, um, interviews, uh, kind of panel discussions, and, uh, a whole range of interviewers and interviewees. Uh, it could not have happened without, um, kind of the community supporting it and contributing to it. Uh, you know, I, I, I look back, I mean, you know. We're almost just the kind of the conduit, you know, the, the, the platform to, to make it happen. And if it wasn't for community members saying, yes, I want to be interviewed. Yes, I want to interview. Yes. You're welcome at this event. Um, it just would not be, um, present. And now, um, I think, you know, over 10 years later, uh, people can now go back, you know, 10 years ago and listen to things like, you know, when marriage equality first got into Parliament, so you can hear the speeches that were said on the day, and, and then you realize about how things have changed and how things have, in a lot of ways, got better over the last, you know, 10, 20 years. Still a long way to go. Uh, but it's a wonderful way of, of being able to kind of reach back into the past and hear what we thought, how we said it. Um, and some of the voices, some of the people that actually are no longer with us, um, you know, I think even on that day when marriage equality went into parliament. Uh, Louisa Wall's, uh, bill. Uh, we had people like Helen Kelly, um, speaking as an ally, uh, to the Rainbow communities and, uh, she was speaking on the steps of Parliament and, um, you know, it wasn't too many years after that that she, um, sadly passed. So it's great to hear her voice again and to see how passionate she was about equality. Yeah, so I mean, um, I think it's an amazing, uh, I don't know if you call it a library, but collection of audio. Um, I kind of dip in and out of it quite, um, frequently. I'm doing kind of radio and, um, enjoying kind of listening to that kind of audio. Um, and it certainly, like you say, is kind of, you know, the community have to... be part of that and, um, you know, want to be recorded or do interviews, but also you do manage to get along to a lot of events. I'm always amazed that, um, you know, any kind of, uh, rainbow community events that are going on, um, you're, you're usually there kind of. Recording it in some form, which is, um, uh, pretty, uh, pretty amazing. Oh, well, well look, it also gives us the opportunity of, of being a part of the community. Mm-Hmm. Um, you know, I think both of Roger and I get so much more out of going to these events, uh, than, than putting into these events. Um, you know, that there is so much to be said for, um, just feeling that you're not alone. Um, and I, you know, I think, you know, reflecting on, say, the walk tours that we also do, um, that, that is a way of us connecting with the community and, and not only passing on history and living history and, and talking about the past, but also actually connecting with the community. And so even like yesterday, we were doing a tour for It was an amazing tour, actually, for the Ministry for Culture and Heritage. They had, as part of their Pride Week, they invited us around to do a mini walk tour, and we were around kind of lower, um, Lampton Quay area, and we had 25 Ministry of Health, uh, Ministry of culture and heritage staff, um, on the tour was amazing. Um, and we were able to stop for instance, at the old broadcasting house site on Bowen street and talk about, uh, quilted bananas and, and, and, and, and in its earlier incarnation of, um, the lesbian community radio, and just to point out that how wonderful. Quilted Bananas is not only in terms of its current name and how it now represents a whole range of identities, but the fact that it's been going since about 1984, it's like, This is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's definitely one of the things that I find amazing about the show that it has sustained for so long. Um, and that's great to hear that we're on the tour. Absolutely. Um, and so I'm guessing just linking it background then. So this is perfect. The, the, the seats will now be incorporated into, into one of your tours then. Yes, no doubt. Maybe two or three tours. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, actually, the last, we've just started doing a Carmen Rupe, the fabulous Carmen Rupe tour. Um, and, uh, we did one about a week ago. And we actually stopped at where the seats are going to be and said, well, actually, um, generally we're talking about stuff in the past, but here we are talking about stuff in 26th. And, um, Saturday the 1st. So we're hoping by Saturday the 1st there'll be seats there with the parks, um, and everything will be looking fabulous. Yeah, but people could be looking out for that then, um, you know, those seats being put in, um, maybe a few days before that. Absolutely, yeah. Well, thank you so much for, um, your time this morning and your amazing insight into, um, into many things around, uh, the queer community in Wellington. But obviously specifically around, um, about Chrissie and Carmen this morning. Um, We will put a, um, advert up or a promotion on Facebook for the event. I know that you've got promotions going on on Facebook um, for the seat unveiling, um, and it'd be great. Hopefully, um, well, I'm sure you will see lots of people there on, um, the 1st of October to be part of that, to be part of that event with you. So, Kia Ora, thank you for your, for your time and all your insights this morning. Oh, Kia Ora, Kia Ora. Thank you, Karen. Ka kite. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1950s ; 1960s ; 1970s ; 1980s ; 1990s ; 2020s ; Andy Foster ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Broadcasting House ; Carmen Rupe ; Carmen's traffic light ; Celia Wade-Brown ; Chanel Hati ; Chrissy Witoko ; Chrissy Witoko Memorial Trust ; Coming Up ; Cuba ; Cuba Street ; Dunedin ; Events ; Evergreen Coffee House ; Fran Wilde ; Gender Minorities Aotearoa (GMA) ; Glenda Hughes ; Grant Robertson ; Hastings ; Helen Kelly ; Homosexual Law Reform ; Intersex Inclusive Progress Pride Flag ; Irawhiti Takatāpui ; Jacquie Grant ; Job ; Jurgen Hoffman ; Justin Lester ; Karen Harris ; Leilani Sio ; Louisa Wall ; Malcolm Kennedy-Vaughan ; Mark Blumskey ; Marriage Equality ; Mayor of Wellington ; Mental Health Awareness Week ; Michael Fowler ; Ministry for Culture and Heritage ; Museums Wellington ; New Zealand Portrait Gallery ; People ; Poutokomanawa: The Carmen Rupe Generation (exhibition, 2019) ; QUILTED BANANAS (Wellington Access Radio) ; Rainbow Crossing (Wellington) ; Rainbow Precinct ; Rally for Marriage Equality ; Renee Paul ; Robin Waerea ; Roger Smith ; Scott Kennedy ; Scotty and Mal's Cocktail Bar ; Space ; Stuff ; Sydney ; Taumarunui ; Taupuruariki Brightwell ; Tāmati Coffey ; Tīwhanawhana ; Vivian Street ; Walktours NZ ; Wellington ; Wellington City Council ; Wellington Museum ; West Coast ; abortion ; abortion law reform ; actions ; alcohol ; ancestors ; attack ; blessing ; board ; broadcasting ; cafe ; clubs ; coffee ; community ; connect ; council ; culture ; email ; emotional ; employment ; encouragement ; equality ; exhibition ; face ; facebook. com ; flags ; friends ; fun ; funding ; future ; gallery ; gay ; gender ; harbour ; health ; heritage ; history ; homosexual ; homosexual law reform ; hospitality ; inspiration ; knowledge ; law ; leadership ; lesbian ; library ; life force ; love ; marriage ; marriage equality ; massage ; mayor ; memorial ; mental health ; museums ; opportunity ; organisation ; other ; passing ; plan ; power ; pridenz. com ; public transport ; queen ; queer ; radio ; rainbow ; reconnect ; respect ; running ; safe space ; safety ; safety plan ; seat ; sex ; strength ; support ; takatāpui ; ties ; time ; top ; touch ; trans ; transgender ; transport ; trust ; venues ; voice ; walk tour ; website ; whakatauki ; work ; writing. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/gareth_watkins_roger_smith_chrissy_witoko_carmen_rupe_memorial_seats.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1093071. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.