The title of this recording is "Coral Trimmer and Sylvia Bagnall". It is described as: Coral Trimmer and Sylvia Bagnall talk about their relationship, getting married, the past and future. It was recorded in Paekākāriki, Kapiti Coast District on the 13th November 2022. This is an interview with Coral Trimmer and Sylvia Bagnall. The interviewer is Gareth Watkins. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 1 hour and 3 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Coral Trimmer and Sylvia Bagnall talk about their relationship, getting married, the past and future. The content in the recording covers the decades 1940s through to the 2020s. A brief summary of the recording is: In an intimate interview recorded in Paekākāriki, Kapiti Coast District, Coral Trimmer and Sylvia Bagnall reveal their deep connection, the development of their relationship, and the shared experiences that have shaped their lives from the 1940s through the 2020s. They discuss the origins of their union, first meeting at a local museum when Coral visited from Melbourne. As Coral navigated the challenges of supporting a partner with dementia, a new bond with Sylvia organically formed through social gatherings and chance encounters. Coral speaks candidly about the difficulties faced by LGBTQ+ individuals in the past, expressing an aversion to labels and a preference for simplicity in self-identity. Their connection developed into a loving partnership despite initial hesitations, with melodies intertwining; Coral’s music shifts, becoming an expression of love for Sylvia. Nonetheless, memories of past loves resonate, as Coral reflects on the significance of Riet Hoagland, a Dutch war hero and a preceding partner who educated Coral on love and companionship. The couple also delves into dealing with dementia, both having seen the deteriorative effects on previous partners, an emotional challenge that interweaves with their current joy and affection. Their narrative is peppered with tender gestures and shared appreciations, from enjoying sunsets to the melodies of their life together. Despite the personal and historical pain they recount, such as the traumas of World War II and societal rejection, they advocate for love and joy. Their recent marriage in 2022 symbolizes the normalization of LGBTQ+ unions and the validation of their love. Coral and Sylvia's story transcends age and societal constraints, demonstrating that authenticity and profound connections can flourish throughout one’s life. The interview closes with Coral and Sylvia making wishes for each other, featuring Coral’s desire for Sylvia’s pain-free existence and continuing joy in their union, while Sylvia hopes for enduring love in their golden years. The overarching theme is one of fulfillment, an aspiration for each day to be lived with love and gratitude. The full transcription of the recording begins:  If you could just introduce each other and tell me how you met. Okay. Well, my name is, oh no, I'm going to introduce this person. This is Cole Trimmer and I met her one day when I was volunteering at the local museum on the railway station and my friend and neighbor John Trimmer dropped in and said, come and meet my sister. She's over from Melbourne. She's a lesbian. So I popped out onto the, the the platform and I met her. And then, um, the person who I'd already been going out with but wasn't quite popped in. I, I said go out on the platform. John Trim has got a lesbian sister. So, she went out and then Col came in while the train hadn't yet arrived. They're very punctual these people so they have plenty of time. And, uh, Col came in and talked to us and we liked her very much. I liked her very much. I didn't know that. Um, yes, I, I, it was on one of my trips across when I lived in Melbourne. I flew often over as often as I could to see my brother John. And on one particular trip over, John told me about the, uh, woman that lived in this house across the road, and he, as a matter of fact, John said, I'd like to abort that house for you. But anyway, and um, that was that, and uh, I was with John, I think we were on the railway station or something. Yeah, waiting for a train. And he told me about these two women, Sylvia, and they, they didn't live together, but um, Uh, they were a couple, and I said, oh, that's, that's lovely, and I had a, a, uh, a partner in Melbourne at the time who was in, who was in care. She had dementia. We'd been together a long time, 28 years. Um, and um, so I, uh, I thought, oh, I'll pop in and see these women. So I did. I popped in, and I remember, I remember them both quite, quite clearly, especially this one. And I thought, what a sweet, refined, quiet woman. She was. And I'm a terribly bad judge of character. Um, But, uh, Yes, we weren't, I didn't know John had said that, that he had a lesbian sister because I've, I've never thought of myself as a, as a lesbian. I'm simply a woman that loves women. I don't particularly like labels. That's as simple as that. But I met her and, and I thought, I thought she was very, very nice. Uh, and on several trips over here, We would, I would bump into this one here, and, and I still thought she was awfully nice. But I was to tell her my partner had died, um, and, um, when I, I flew over here in 2019, and, um, and then, uh, we met up again. How far would you like me to go with this meeting? That's how we first met, on the railway station. Anyway, so, she... Turned up a few more times and then had come to live here. And by that time, my partner had taken herself into care and was developing dementia. But I was still looking after her and seeing her. And... So, I was glad that Coral had come here, and I thought I'd better tell her about a few things that are on for women like us, uh, so I invited her when a potluck was at my house and... It was funny, the potluck, because I'd been away, I was in Melbourne for a long, long, long time, um, and um, I said to John, what's a potluck? And she said, Oh, you take something along, some little thing around. I said, Oh, okay. So I went to the local deli and I bought these little savory things. And when I did turn up here, I was so embarrassed to see all the things that people had bought. And I had this little... But look, it was very nice. It was full of, um, uh, gay women, lesbian women. And, um, I felt... They were very nice to me, but I didn't quite feel as though I fitted in. And Sylvia was there, and I still thought she was very nice. Was at my house. Which was your house, yes, of course it was. Um, so, uh, we continued to bump into each other. And I liked her. I thought she, even when I found out she wasn't the quiet, refined, et cetera, et cetera. Um, I, I, I just, I just liked her. I thought she was a very nice woman. And, um, but I had no intention of a relationship. I had, I, I, I didn't want, I didn't want that anymore. And I didn't want to live with anybody. I had a very nice apartment by this time. And, um, yeah, we, um, I was up in Auckland at, uh, in 2019 before, just before I flew home, um, uh, taking part in a documentary by a Dutch, uh, docker crew, uh, about a woman that I had lived with in the, from 1953 to 1960. She was a Dutch immigrant and a part of the resistance movement and a war hero. She was 10 years my senior and she was my first. Um, my first affair, uh, I was 23 and, uh, not very happy. I met her and, um, we went into a relationship and we went up to Walken to live because it was too uncomfortable living down here with my family. Um, I didn't want them to find out about my sexuality. And, uh, so they, and I'm the only one left alive that knew this woman. Tell them how you met. how we met, Reet. Would you like to know that? I do. I want to know all about Reet. So maybe we can leave it for just a little bit later in the interview. Okay. Because I would like to know what are the best attributes of each of you, if you could say what are the best attributes for the other person? What? What is best? Well, Carl's a marvellous musician and um, before we're Actually started going out together. I'd seen her play and she's so physical. She means sexy. I mean sexy, but it comes across in the way she moves and plays. She was sexy. So that, that, that was nice. And it turns out to be right. She is very sexy. Um, also has got a good sense of humor and is very cuddly, which is, is important to me, and sexy, and very affectionate, and, um, we like a lot, our politics are similar, which is important to me, and we like the same kind of food. So when I asked her to move in with me, um, she said yes, but she took a while. Because she didn't want to offend her landlady, I think. That was funny, yeah. Yep. Well the, um, with, with Sylvia, I just, I just liked her. I thought she was, she, she was just a nice woman, and, um, what happened was that, um, Helen Mulder, who, who lives down, and you know Helen, yeah, she's a dear friend of mine, um, she phoned me up one day and she said, Coral, I'm, uh, I've got two free tickets for you for my um, play at St. Peter's, such and such a day. I said, Oh, lovely. Thank you. And I said to John later, who on earth am I going to ask? And then I thought, I wonder if, because I knew she was on her own, wonder if Sylvia would like to go. And, um, because I liked her, uh, as a, as a person, um, I phoned her. I, I did, I sent her a text message because I don't like rejection very much, and I thought she might say no. So instead of facing up to her, I sent her a text message message telling her that I had these tickets, would she liked to go with me? And I had an, an immediate answer saying she'd love to, and I said, fine. So, um, we, it was still, it's still, it was still, I, I liked her as a person. I had no thoughts of anything. Did you darling? No. You didn't chase me a little bit. Oh, well, I have been, but I wasn't conscious of it. And she had been away. Now she tells me now that she had been away, but... Well, it was more like, I thought, poor Coral's come from the great metropolis, and she doesn't know people here. So, when there was something on, I wanted to take, make sure you knew. And, when you had the, she was going to perform, a concerto that had been written especially for her, for harp and harmonica. And it was deferred, it was cancelled. Yes, COVID, yes. COVID, was it? And so I thought, poor Cole, she's supposed to be playing this afternoon. So I said, come and have afternoon tea. And I invited some of the local girls around. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. Sunny, Sunny Amies. Um, that was another time. Was it? Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yes. That was another time. Oh, another time when she was over here before all this happened. Yes. That was nice. I, I, I still, and we had wine in the backyard and that was fun. That was, but I don't drink. Um, but you did that day. Did I? Yeah. Oh, okay. Um, no, uh, I just, I liked her as a person and even, and that, that afternoon. Um, I, I thought, she's really, really nice. It's a pity she's tied up. I didn't tell you that, did I? No, you didn't tell me that. Oh, sorry. So anyway, then we had this other afternoon tea here. So I realized it probably was taking an interest in you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just because I thought you were nice at that stage. Yeah, but the thing is with this, um, this play, uh, we went to the play. She was late. She says, I'm always on time. She was late. Chronically punctual. Um, Well, we met outside St. Peter's and we went in and sat in the front row and something happened. We went too late for the play. No, of course we're not darling. I'd never say that. Um, uh, we were sitting in the front row and, and Sylvia had an arm, her arm, put her arm around in the back of the chair and she came over and kissed me lightly on the cheek and I said, God, you'll have the whole village talking. She said, I don't care. And I thought, no. Oh, this is dangerous. I don't want any women in my life. Dangerous. But anyway, the play was fun. It was. An innocent kiss. That one was. That was an innocent kiss. And after the play, we walked out and we stopped outside St. Peter's by the pedestrian crossing. And I did something that I wouldn't normally do. And this is the honest truth. I kissed her. On the lips. Just gently. Not gently. Oh no, you told me it was too hard the first time. Gently the second and third time. Three kisses. I gave her just three and I thought, oh, that's quite nice. And Sylvia had to go that way and I had to go that way and I said, look, I'll walk you across the crossing. So we walked across the pedestrian crossing and on the corner, we chatted there under the Pohutukawa tree. Oh, you watch out for that Pohutukawa tree. It's, ugh. We stood under the Pohutukawa tree And I just, I kissed her again, and that really was not characteristic, because I'm usually a little bit, ahem, be careful kid. Um, and I kissed her again, and it was very nice, and she walked away and stopped, turned around, rang back, um, put her arms around me, and kissed me very passionately, and, and I, all I could do then was say to her, oh, wow. And you said the same. Yeah, so off I went. So off she went. But I sort of skipped all the way home, I feel. Then I went, I went around home and I thought, What is happening? I don't want this. No, no, no, no, no, no. And I thought, I shouldn't have done this. I'm such a gentleman. I sent her a text message which said, I don't usually do this, please forgive me. And I had a reply back straight away saying, Nothing to forgive, I liked it. Well I did. You liked it. And then, um, we went into lockdown, didn't we? Yes, almost straight away. You can tell about it. So, you know, you have to go for walks. So, I walked past her place. Well, actually, I had walked past her place. But I pretended I was walking past her place and said, I threw a kiss up your driveway. And she said something nice back. And then. We started meeting and going for walks, you're allowed to. I just made my bubble a wee bit bigger. Yes, we went for walks into the parks. Every day. Yeah. And we, we sat on the park benches and we, we became very, um, Affectionate. Cuddly. Yes. Affectionate. And if you remember that first lockdown was lovely weather. It's good for walks. And it was lovely but I knew that I was really starting to feel something quite strong for this one and I didn't want to. I really did not, I had my music, um, I didn't, I didn't want to do this, and, um, we were walking along the beach one, one day, holding hands, and it was so lovely. And I stopped her, and I said, look, there's something I want to tell you, I think I'm falling in love, I think I'm going to cry. I think I'm falling in love with you, and I don't know what to do about it. And what did you say? Uh, me too, basically. Yes. But it was difficult because, um, we didn't want to uh, hurt anybody and so on. And there were one or two people around here that knew that we were seeing each other and weren't very nice about it. It was hard not to know, really. It was very hard not to know because we walked hand in hand everywhere. And every time we walk under that But, um, so that's how it all started, um, but when, when Sylvia, we, we were, we became, we became lovers. We did, it was your fault, you did that. I did not. Yeah, we were sitting, the couch was over there. We did it together. Oh, okay. Um, but, um. Yeah, and we found we did have a lot in common, but there's a big age difference, and I thought about She won't, she won't accept that. Um, it doesn't matter. I mean, our relationship is extraordinary actually. This is quite extraordinary. I have, I have loved women as Sylvia has, and she's been married of course, but I don't, to a man. Mm-hmm. . Oh, to a man, a bloke. Oh, yeah. Married to you now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah. And, um, but I, I've never, ever had, um, the same feelings for anybody else that I have for Sylvia. And it seems sometimes I think, what, you know, what is this? But I think maybe that's the reason I had to come home. So meet this ridiculously crazy woman that wears mad clothes sometimes. But, um, yeah, so that, that's really how it all started. And when Sylvia asked me, we had, we had become lovers and, uh, she would spend the time at my place and then I would come down here. And it was lovely. And she was a good cook. Um, and, um. She asked me to move in, and I was surprised. I didn't expect that. And I didn't want to live with anybody anymore. Um, I'd become terribly independent, and I'd been on my own for a while. And I thought about it, and I thought, I think, yes, yes. I was very, very aware of mortality, and I'm very aware, uh, we may not have a long time, well we won't have a long time together, we can't plan ten years ahead, we can't do anything like that, but I thought, I love this woman. Um, and so I said yes. Yes, I will move, and so she, we moved, I moved in here, and she created that wonderful music room for me, got hold of a piano that belonged to Val, uh, it's a 1901 Beckstein, beautiful piano because I, I write a lot of music, and um, I moved in and that was lovely and, uh, for some reason one day, oh, I, Yeah, wasn't there? Oh no, before I moved in, I sent you another text message, because I'm a coward. I sent a text message, which, which said, um, there's something I know, I want to ask you, and I know it's impossible. But if it was possible, I would ask you to marry me. I simply wanted you to know this. I knew it couldn't happen. I said, this can't happen. I wanted you to know that, and I texted it. And I had a reply straight away. No, first you sent a message saying, there's something I want to ask you, but I can only ask by text. Oh, that's right. So I just said, okay, ask, you know, and then she said. That's right. Yes. I would ask you to marry me, but I know it's impossible. Yes, and I, I, I thought I'd receive a text back, but I wanted her to know how I felt. It didn't matter if she said no. That was not important. But I think it was important for her to know that I was genuine, and I really felt that. Uh, and I received a text back straight away saying, um, Not impossible, not yet, but dot, dot, dot. And I thought, oh, okay. I didn't expect that. And, um, then I moved in. And... What happened, darling? Have I left something important out? Yes. Not the time you asked me, anyway. The order it happened, but it doesn't matter. You came to the railway station. Yes, I'm just going into it. Before you moved in. Oh, did I? Oh, so I did. That's right. I was on duty again. We feel as though we've been together forever. That's the whole thing. It's crazy. Um, yes, I went to the railway station one day when Sylvia was, um, on duty there, uh, at reception, and I walked in, and I, I didn't plan this. At all. I walked in, I got down on one knee, and I said, Will you marry me? And I think, expecting her to laugh, and she said, Yes. And I said, Pardon? I beg your pardon? Then I helped her up. She helped me up. I beg your pardon? I said, Oh, okay. And then it suddenly became a plan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I moved in. And my, my landlady was Janet Holbrook, who was our new mayor. And, uh, she's, she became a good, she had become a good friend, and it was a lovely place I'd been living in, and I thought, oh, how can I tell her? We played a lot of music together also. I thought, how am I going to tell her, I've only been here a year. So, um. I saw her and I said, Janet, there's something I have to tell you. I'm moving out. She said, oh, you're moving in with Sylvia. I said, yeah, she's all good, and clapped her hands. The whole village knew, I think. And then I said, and also, we're getting married. Oh, wonderful. I'll bring a string quartet. I said, okay, that would be very nice. So, so that, that, that's, it all happened, it did happen rather quickly, but I mean if we were young kids, but we're not, and we may only have a few weeks together. We may have a couple of years, we may have more. I don't understand that. But nobody knows how long they've got anyway. No, they won't, darling. No. So we have to make every minute count. And so on. And it does. Oh, we don't agree about everything, do we, darling? No. Uh huh. It's not so much we don't agree about things, sometimes we We don't like how the other person's saying something. Yes, we get offended. One person gets offended, then I get offended. I don't know whether this is common. But, but, but we do, and then we wonder why we say things, but we get over it, I think, haven't we? We do. We do. We get over it, yeah, and we talk about this is, this is, what are we doing? This is, this is, this is really very silly. But I do feel as though we've been together forever. So, once we decided to get married, we didn't... Wait long, you know, we just thought, let's have a wedding at Easter because people can come. And so it was only about 6 or 8 weeks later. Something like that. Yeah. But everybody we asked to do something said yes. It was lovely, so we didn't, didn't have any trouble organising it. So this, this was um, Easter this year, 2022? Yep, yep, we're just newlyweds. Wow. And we didn't even, we, we paid for hardly anything. Uh, of Pattenvale. They organized the whole wedding, said you don't have to do a thing. Nothing. So they... Yes. Yeah, so we, we talked about going on the beach, but it turned out to be a very windy day and no one could hear anything. It wasn't raining. No. Um, and the reception at the bowler and the... The default was to the bowling club, so, and then we had it, but we said to Pat, you make the call, tell us where we're going, you know. So, um, Pat and Val did everything for us, decorated the hall and all that sort of thing, and the celebrant's a friend, and she, when I just, we asked her, she was just delighted, wanted to do it. And Anne Marie Statt, when I said, would you take photos, yes, absolutely, she was all over the place. She didn't want us to pay. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was, it was an extraordinary day. And the bowling club, when I went to pay them, At the end they said, oh, we did all right on the day because I got a bar. Don't worry very cash. Yes So then somebody somebody put some money in an envelope for us Which we use for our honeymoon part of we had a couple of lovely nights at the Chateau. Yes Yeah, and when I asked Louis to do the flowers. She only wanted the cost of the flowers and the pet went up to get them. Everybody was, and my brother, my darling brother John, he was the ring, one of the ring bearers. Oh, so I asked the local fire brigade, because when we were going to have it on the beach, I wondered if John could be brought on, he doesn't walk very well. Now, um, I could bring him on the all purpose vehicle, which they use for rescues and things. And they, they were delighted to, or the friend, my friend in the fire brigade was delighted too. And so when we said, Oh, it's going to be at the boulder after all, she said she'd still take him. So she took him and my lovely niece Maria, who was the other ring bearer. So they arrived on, on the, on the fire buggy. Same sex marriages, um, around the world haven't been available to people for, for, for, for, um, not that long. No, no, Australia certainly not. How did it feel, um, exchanging vows? It is, I don't know about my lovely wife. But suddenly I, it seemed so normal. It seemed so, it seemed so right. Um, I don't, I had always wanted to marry, even as a little girl. I am a 150% lesbian. Uh, I have never been with a man, uh, only because I didn't see the point That's as simple as that. Up until the age of about, um, 14, I wanted to be a boy desperately wanted to sex change. Um, but was terrified, and then when I realized what awful things men had to do, go to war and dig ditches and stuff like that, I thought, no, I don't think I want to be a man, I'll stay a woman, but I was aware of my sexuality, and um, uh, um, but I always wanted to meet a lovely woman. And get married, as simple as that. Uh, I proposed, I proposed to many, a lot of film stars. I used to write, write to them and send the letters, and put my name and wonder why they never ever answered. Um, thank heavens they didn't. But to me, getting married to a woman, a special woman, was a very normal thing, but I'm so fussy. I'm terribly, terribly fussy. And it had to be somebody, somebody very special. And, um, I didn't know it would be a woman that, Had three grown up kids and six grandchildren, but they're all lovely to me. They're just lovely to me, but It just seemed right. In Australia, of course, not long before I left, the law changed and so on. But, um, up until then, I did, I had friends over there, two women, that were married, um, by a, a gay Catholic priest, underground. But it wasn't, never, it was never legal. But, it's, how do you feel about it, darling? Ah, well, good. I, I know, I went along to the rallies for, change, uh, to the law. And I had been in a civil union, um, my partner died. So, um, but there are lesbians around who say marriage was never any good for women, so why would we want it now? And yet, I, I feel something in the traditional vows that you make. We didn't, we didn't... We just made up our own vows. In fact, I just thought about it as I went. But, I'll have to wait until I see the film to know what I actually said. But, um, but I've thought about it since the thing, you know, was my body, I thee worship, and with all my worldly goods, I thee endow, and all those things. and crucial. They're just the commitment to share your life with someone. And, and because you committed. If, if you have a row or something, you know you'll get over it and you need to get over it and you can't just take off or, I mean you can of course, but I don't want to. I you to. I'm not. Okay, I know you, but what I know is you could chase after me. I'll chase you, yes. Okay, that's alright. Yes. Yes. But it's just the security of knowing that you have a commitment is really nice. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes, the commitment. I felt very calm throughout the whole thing and I thought, gee, I'm proud of me. Because I have a tendency to get a wee bit nervous sometimes and I thought this is, this is, this is big. This is, this is big. What I'm doing is just so, you know, I'm giving my, my My mind, my body, my soul, my life to somebody else, and she is giving it to me. And this, this is not something you sneeze at. This is so important. So I was as calm as anything. When it came to signing the register, I couldn't. It took me ages. My hand was like, you silly old bag. What are you doing? But I did, of course. But um, yeah, and having my brother there. It was wonderful. I have a sister in Prorongia, um, who was very, very lovely and, and, uh, she couldn't get down. Her husband was not well, but one of her sons and his wife, a little girl, came down and, and that, that meant so much to me. Um, I did think about my mum and dad a bit. Uh, I don't know how they would have reacted. I, I, I don't, I don't know. I really don't know. But, um, yeah, yeah. Those, those were, I don't, I don't remember. Do you remember what you said? I don't remember. Um, I, um, I said I love you. Oh. And, um, I want to be with you forever. Yeah, forever. But I can't remember. We'll have to wait till we see the film. The whole thing of falling in love, I mean, You fall in love with somebody, and it happens to be a woman in our case. And if a man will fall in love with another man, so it's love. You know, it shouldn't be questioned. And I, I've watched, um, so many men, young men, gay men, I knew mainly gay men when I lived in Auckland, and in Melbourne for that matter, and I loved being with them, it was such fun and I felt so comfortable, but I lost so many of them, lost some of them to AIDS of course, and some who took their life. Um, and, and this, it shouldn't, it shouldn't be. And I've witnessed some terrible things, um, years ago with some of my lovely gay friends who were beaten up by police, or raped by police. It's, it's, for what? Because they've, because they fall in love with somebody of the same, it's ludicrous. It's like racism is ludicrous. This is, this is, this is ludicrous. Sorry, I get hit up. I thought you were going to say some, some go into heterosexual or surface marriages. And you would know about that. People who get married to a woman, are a woman who get married to a man, but they're really gay. So they either agree to go their own ways, or else they, they try hard to change and it doesn't work. Look, it doesn't work. Um, if, if I know of one particular case where the, the, the, the young man is very gay. I knew a couple who were like that, but they were good friends, and they just agreed to go their own ways. Yeah, that's, that's very well, yes. Share a house, and, you know, they had a lot in common that wasn't to do with sex, so, that can work. But, you shouldn't have to disguise. No, and what about you, darling? I mean, you married, you married a guy. I married a guy, yes. Yeah, and you had your babies, you always wanted babies. Well, I, I... You can have them, I'll look after them, but I don't want them. I mean, I don't want to have them. I'm not having any more. Imagine. No. Um, well, I didn't... I didn't know it was an option when I was a young woman. You know, I grew up in the 50s, 60s, sort of compulsory heterosexuality, and you had to get married. You couldn't even have sex without getting married, or, well, because you did, but you weren't supposed to. Uh, so, um, I didn't know. When I did realize that women, um, Could be lesbians. Because I got to know some people who were, people younger than me who were kind of free about it. I thought, well that's an option, but I'm not free to take that option, you know. I've never had that problem because from my first waking, my first thinking moments as a youngster, I felt different to the, I wanted to be a boy and I used to have weeing competitions with my brother when we wore shorts and he would wee out of the side of his pants and I'd try it and just make a mess down my leg. And it used to upset me terribly. But, uh, I was the leader of a gang in Batoni. We didn't do anything. We just called ourselves a gang. It was the Flaming Dagger Gang, and I was the only woman and I was in charge. Um, but I, and I... Only a little girl, you mean? Yes. Yeah. And, um, a little girl. Yeah, and, and, I, I didn't, um, it didn't, didn't worry me. Um, I loved, I adored my dad. I wanted to be like my dad. I used to follow him around like a puppy dog, and he was a beautiful, gentle soul. We used to go into the bush, used to tell me the names of the trees and the bushes and the birds and, and, and so he was a violinist. He played violin and, uh, he was, he was a lovely guy. And, um, I thought, I didn't think anything of it. And I had two sisters who were lovely, used to do anything for me, do my sewing and whatever, because I couldn't do it and I didn't want to. And I just liked all the little boy things. I liked all the little boy things. And I actually, I used to think to myself, well, everybody must be like this. And as I get older, it will go away. And I'll want to get married to some nice young man or something and have babies. But it didn't go away. And, uh, closer, the closer I got to puberty, the worse it became. And at 14, I discovered... My, my sister had, uh, it was touring with a musical comedy company, she was a dancer, and she came home after touring, and she said, Oh, Coral, Mum, come on, I must tell you about these funny people in our show. There are men who make love together, and I froze. And I listened, and she said, And there are girls too that do that. And Mum said, Oh, that's, that's impossible, naturally. And I froze. And went hot and cold and I thought, that's me, I'm one of those horrible people. And that's when I start, I, I thought about suicide, ending my life, seriously. But I didn't because of what I thought, what it would do to mum and dad, it would destroy them. And I loved them, they were lovely parents. So I um, I, I didn't know what to do and I decided, I knew I couldn't, I couldn't marry. I went out, I had boyfriends, but I wouldn't even let them kiss me goodnight. And, uh, I, I knew I just couldn't do this. It would be, it would be wrong, it would be unnatural for me, personally, to do this. Um, and in Batoni, I thought, well, there's nobody else here like me. I can't meet anybody. So I just, I, I, I drove myself with my music. I was studying piano seriously to be a concert pianist then. And, um, I, I thought I would become a spinster. They will call me a spinster and laugh at me and make fun of me. I don't care, and I'll just concentrate on music. So I did until I was 23. So there you are. It's um, it's our, our backgrounds are so different. One similarity between the both of you that you've talked about is dementia and dementia within, you know, with, with partners. Yeah. You don't need to respond to this, but I'm wondering, I mean, how, I've heard dementia be referred to as a very long goodbye. How, how have you found, um, living with someone with dementia? It's awful. It is, it's such a debilitating thing. And especially if somebody you, you cared about, um, intelligent. Such an, such an intelligent, so, uh, Rachel was so intelligent and, and such fun and we had, we had a great time together all those years. It was really, really lovely. Um, I, I, I had a, um, my great grandfather was Jewish. We were never brought up in that faith, of course. But, um, they were, he, he was Jewish and because of that I was accepted into the Jewish community. I was Rachel's partner, and so on, and we had lots and lots and lots of fun. It was, it was good fun, and when she died, actually, she left me a very nice little amount of money, uh, which I found very emotional. Her wedding, uh, her wedding, listen to me, her, um, funeral, her funeral, if I, if I may, um, Uh, she belonged to a group called the Jewish Lesbian Group of Victoria and I was accepted because I was Rachel's partner. And, uh, they were lovely women. Very, very beautiful people. And, um, there were some musicians amongst them, which was lovely for me. We could chat and play music. And, um, when Rachel died, they looked after me. They were so wonderful. They made sure I was not alone. I was living alone, of course. But they... Picked me up and they drove me to the funeral. It was in a funeral parlor and lots of people there, lots of cousins, lots of Jewish family there, and she had a brother, David. They were not very close. He had arranged the funeral and Rachel had said, at one stage, to her brother, when I die, I want a, I want a female rabbi who was not religious, and we found one. And, um, she, as I met her, and she was lovely to me, wanted to know about our relationship and so on and so forth. And she made sure that I sat in the front with David, otherwise I wouldn't have been there. I sat in the very front with David. And she came up, and she, usually in a Jewish funeral, they start with a, um, a, a, a sort of a hymn in, uh, in Hebrew. And we were waiting for that. And she started singing a Frank Sinatra love song. And when it was over, she said, that's for you Coral. Which was quite lovely. The whole thing was very emotional. She talked about our relationship. And, um, at the end of a Jewish funeral, just before they take the coffin out, they form this, uh, they call it the Love, Tunnel of Love. There are people on each side. And the two, the people closest to the person who's, uh, the deceased person walks down. between them. And David and I walked down there. That was incredibly emotional. And then we wait outside until the coffin comes out. But, uh, I'll never forget that. That, uh, everybody was so kind and her relations came up and I had no idea. I didn't know whether she had any money. She could have been as poor or rich. I hadn't, I hadn't, we didn't talk about that much. So she left me a little bit and, um. About, it was two, about two years after she had died, I thought, oh, I'll come home, I will come home. But, um, it's, it's a, it's a horrible thing to watch. I, thinking about dementia, it would be different for me if I was living with my partner. If, if, if you had dementia, it won't happen because Cora's got a better memory than me. I'm the one who gets forgetting names and things. Um, but if, If you had dementia, because we've got a pattern of living together, I think we could just keep going. Oh, of course we could. No, and, and, whereas if, if it's someone who you pick up and take out all the time, it's a different kind of pattern. Of course. Yeah. Yes, of course. Yes, of course. Yeah. When we first met, which was during the World's Shortest Pride Parade here in Paikakariki. Yes. Which was amazing. Um, you said to me that, uh, Coral, you said to me that being in Paikakariki is the first time you've been able to authentically be yourself. Yes. Absolutely. In Melbourne I couldn't. Um, I, I didn't, I, I've, I've, there's my brother John there. Going past. Um, yes, I lived a fairly secluded life in Melbourne, though I was performing a great deal, but I had to be terribly, terribly careful. And I know I do walk a bit funny. Not very... Female, not very, but, I hate that saying, but anyway, um, Yeah, yes, and I came to Pai Kakariki and, and I just suddenly felt so much at home. People accepted me. They knew immediately just by looking at me, heaven knows why. that I may have been a lesbian. I have no idea why they thought that, um, and I'd taken my moustache off and everything. But, um, it was a bit, a bit different to London. I was in London when John was there with the ballet company, Sadler's Wells, and I was there playing vaudevillian variety and, uh, bordellos. Yes, and I didn't know I was in one. Um, I was booked to play at this particular place in Soho and I walked down, I was a kid from Botoni, I walked down into this basement and I thought, oh gosh, they must love horses because there were whips on the wall. I was from Botoni, how would I know? But um, uh, yeah, um, but even in London I had to be very, very careful. Um, I was worn by my agent. I had to wear long dresses and, on stage, and stiletto heels and, and, uh, She had beautiful long, golden clothes. Yes, I had long, golden hair in those days. And, um, I, I, I, eyelash stuff and, oh God, no, false fingernails, falsies, falsies, because I didn't have much there. And, so, I, I, I was living a lie, the whole time living a lie. I was living with a woman at that time. But it was still a lie. You had to tell stories and make up things, and I just, I just hated it. And, um, when I came home to, uh, Paekakariki, it was such a relief. Everybody, not just the gay community, but everybody was so nice. And, um, I could be myself suddenly. And, um, and then I met Pat and Val, of course, and they made me the patron of the Pride Parade. And the first one I was in, I was on the back of a motorbike that nearly killed me. But, I mean, but, yeah, it was wonderful. And all this hiding, you know, I hid from my parents for so many years. Until my mum did find out, in a very, I was 34. And I was living at home, just before I went to Melbourne. And um, John had arrived back home from London and still lived with Mum and Dad. And I was still in London and I had met this woman and I wrote a very graphic letter to John. About, um, my new love. And mum found the letter in John's room and read it. She, which she should not have done, but she did read it. And when I came home that day, she said, I know. And she told me about the letter. And, and she said, is it my fault? I said, no, mum, nobody's fault. I've always been this way. And, um. And she said, well, when did you find out? I said, well, I, I knew what it was when I was 14. And she said, why didn't you tell me? I said, you would have taken me to a doctor, wouldn't you? She said, yes. And I said, that would have destroyed me. And she cried. And she held me. And she said, I love you even more. So there you are. But she never spoke of it again. Mum lived with me for the last six years of her life in Melbourne, but she never spoke of it again. But, um, so all this, all this deception, it shouldn't be. Then you came out on National Radio. Did I ever come out on National Radio here? Oh, wow. Yes. I, I had a, I was, hadn't been home very long and I had a call from, uh, national Radio, radio New Zealand, asking me for an interview, and I said, well, yes, all right. I thought it had something to do with my music and, um, or John and, um, anyway, during the interview it was, it was fine, the interview was fine, and then she said, now you knew the Dutch woman. Um, resistance movement. She was in the resistance during the Second World War, yes. At 21 she was caught by the Nazis and thrown into jail. Uh, three months solitary confinement. She was not allowed to wash or change her clothes. She lived on bread and water. She eventually, uh, released her eventually. And, uh, she immigrated to New Zealand. And I met her when she'd been in the country about two weeks. And I'd met her and, um, we, um, Taught me, she taught me all about love in a paddock in Taita. And it was very beautiful. She asked you... What darling? This was at a cafe where Reet was working. I, I had a friend called Pat, Pat Bridgman. She was, um, she was not gay, but I told her about myself. And I thought I was in love with her because this happens. But I wasn't really. And we used to do a lot of shows together around Paterney and Lower Hutt. She would sing. And I would play the guitar, the ukulele, or the harmonica, or whatever happened to be around. And, um, She was working as a waitress, a very bad waitress, in a fish restaurant in Wellington, and she phoned me one day. She said, I want you to, uh, to, I want you to meet, to, uh, introduce somebody to you. I said, oh, okay. So I rolled up at the cafe and sat there until they closed the doors, and then Pat said to me, Oh, she's washing dishes. She'll be here in a moment, and out walked this woman, incredibly attractive woman, with a big smile. She was, uh, ten years, I was twenty three, she was thirty three. She walked out and sat opposite me, and she looked and she said, My name's Rit, and I said, I couldn't talk. I just mouthed the word coral and shook hands. And she looked at me and she said, Do you like boys? I said, No. No, I couldn't talk. And she said, Good. You like girls? She said, Yes! Yes, nodded my head. And she was, she was really truly wonderful. She knew that I was terrified. I had no idea about love between women. All I knew was what I felt. And, um, I, I didn't know how good or bad it was. And I, I, I just, there was nobody to talk to. And. She, she was working, washing dishes. She had several degrees, including one in English Literature, and she was a writer and a journalist. But she was washing dishes. She was, she couldn't get a decent job anywhere. And, um, every Friday night when she finished at the restaurant, um, she would meet me and, um, we would go to the library. Outside the library there were some, some seats and we'd sit there and she would hold my hand. For several weeks she just would hold my hand and tell me about the gay scene in Amsterdam, London, Paris. Until I started to feel so good about myself. And I started to realize there's nothing wrong with me. There's been nothing wrong with me. And um... It was, and she, we would invite her out to our house. We'd moved from Batoni then into Pomari out past Taita. And, uh, she came out this afternoon for Sunday lunch with my family. And, um, she was an incredibly attractive woman. And, um, highly intelligent. And she and I were washing the dishes after lunch. And I was shaking and I said to her, I don't know what's wrong with me, I must be getting sick, I can't stop trembling. I didn't know what it was. And she said, she had perfect English, almost too perfect. You finish the dishes and you go and tell your parents we're going for a walk. I said, so I did and she took my hand and we went for a walk and we went through the paddock. And that's when she taught me all about love. And, uh, and we were together for seven years. She wanted me to live with her in Wellington, and I said, I can't do that. Not with my family here. I can't do it. This place is too small. And um, I left my piano teacher, left everything. And um, we went up to Auckland, and we were there from 1953 to 1960. We lived together, and we had a lovely time. Um, and I, I, uh, I'd always wanted to go to England because I'd, uh, there was nowhere else for me to perform. I'd played on two, two, there were two radio stations in Wellington and Auckland, two YA, two ZB, and one YA, one ZB. That's all there was, and I played on them regularly, and we had a, the night, a couple of nightclubs in Auckland, I worked all the night venues in Wellington, and um, I was, I was, I'd just turned 30, um, I'd been studying composition with Dorothea Franchi in Auckland, had three years with her, uh, fantastic, um, uh, composer and harpist, and um, that's when she wrote the Concerto for Harmonica, Harp and Strings for me, and we played it at the Arts Festival up there in 1960. And there was nowhere else to go, and I begged Rit to come with me to Europe. She said, I can't. She couldn't go back there. There's no way. So I went on my own and, uh, intending to stay away for two years and coming home to be with Rit again. And, um, but it didn't work like that. Rit found somebody else and so did I in London. But we remained very good friends. And she died very young. She was only 49. And she died. I was back in New Zealand then. No, I was in Melbourne. But I spoke to her on the phone a couple of days before she died, but I'm, I'm forever grateful, and, um, that, that she, and she was, she was, she was beautiful about it. There was nothing horrible or ugly or nothing like that. She was, she was quite lovely. One of the things I find really hard when I look back at, say, World War II and the atrocities that happened, to actually kind of comprehend how the hell that all this happened. I don't know. And I'm wondering with Ret, what was the... What was in terms of like, psychologically, from all of that stuff? Well look, she was an extraordinary woman. Uh, she, she really was. Um, what happened was, she was distributing anti Nazi pamphlets during, at the beginning of the occupation. And, um, she was caught. Occupation of the Netherlands. Oh yeah, of Holland, yes, of course. Um, it was in Amsterdam. And, um, Uh, she, she was, I've seen photographs of her at, at that age, at 21 and she was very beautiful, extremely beautiful woman. And, um, what, what she had to do to get through that time. I dunno, I didn't ask her, I didn't ask her anything about the war because I thought they could open wounds. I knew if she wanted me to know, she would tell me, and she did at times. But, um, she, she was fine, but. There were little things that happened. I mean, uh, uh, when we lived in, in Pumare, we were close to the Hutt River, and there are big rocks along the Hutt River, and, and quite often she and I would walk along there, and we're walking along there one day, and she stopped, and I thought she was going to pass out, and I, oh, I'm sorry, and she, um, and I held her. and managed to sit down with her. I said, What's wrong? And she said, That red paint. Someone had spilled red paint on the rocks. And then she told me the story about, um, it was before she was picked up and thrown into jail, that, um, some Nazis had, soldiers had been, a couple of them had been killed. By the resistance movement, and as a reprisal, they stopped people in the, um, in the city, in town, and picked out, selected half a dozen, blah, blah, blah, men, women, children, anybody, they stood there, and all the other people, and she happened to be one of them, they made them stand and watch while they machine gunned these innocent people, and then they made her walk. Through the blood, over the bodies. And that's what it reminded her of. So these things sometimes would come crashing back, but, um, she, I think she was a very strong woman. Liked to dominate a wee bit, yes, but very strong. She would never have survived. Um, she didn't, but that's the reason she left the Netherlands was because she, she said she couldn't face up to it again. Any of that sort of thing. She just couldn't and but what she had to do to get out of that prison. I don't know I don't didn't want to know and She didn't she didn't tell me but it had us Psychological I'm not sure yes. Yes things did happen But, um, I know physically, she always complained to me that she had something inside her that was wrong. Uh, she said, oh, it's some sort of a stomach boil internal or something or other. But that could have been the cancer because it doesn't just suddenly start. And she did die of cancer eventually. But, uh, at 49. But, um, and you say, the atrocities, how could this happen? It's still happening. It is still happening. We don't learn. I remember them. You see, at my age, I can remember the war. I was, how old was I, nine when it started, fifteen when it ended. And I remember seeing the newsreels about it. And I had, um, uh, a, an uncle of mine who was in the air, uh, army and he was part of the, um, part of the people that opened up the doors of the... death chambers, and he told us about it. And there are people going around now saying it was a hoax, it's just rubbish. And, um, I've, I have many Jewish friends, I met them in Melbourne, that were children, and they still had the tattoos on their arms, the numbers, they were thrown into concentration camps, and only, they would be the only one that survived, out of their whole family. I try, who knows, I don't, I don't understand it. It was just Jews, it was gypsies and gays, so you'd be had it. I'd had it because I have a Jewish, uh, gayish, uh, gypsy ancestors of mine, going way back. And my great grandfather was Jewish, and I'm a lesbian, so I wouldn't have had much of a chance. But why? I don't, I don't know, I don't know. Um, Rit talked about it, when she did say something. She, she had no answers. And I, I, um, I taught, I, I, I'm a trained potter, sculptor as well, and I, I taught pottery and sculpture in Melbourne when I ran out of music work. And one of my students was the most beautiful woman. She was Jewish. Dina, her name was. And she was sixteen when the Nazis occupied the country. The little village in Poland. And she and her whole family were thrown into Auschwitz death camp. And she was the only one that survived out of her whole family. And I met her in Melbourne. Uh, she immigrated after she'd married. And, uh, she became one of my pottery students. And she was the most gentle soul I have ever met. Every Christmas, this little Jewish lady would hand me a Christmas card with a 20 note in it. That, that got me. You know, that was a beautiful thing to do. And, I used to go around to their place for, for, for dinner. And she, she said to me once, You know, Coral, I don't hate them. I don't hate what they do. But I'm so frightened. And I fancy going through all that and not finning some sort of a, There's this, um, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I ever learn? I don't think we ever will learn. It's um, I think the trouble with being human, I think we have both, all of us have a dark side as well as a a light side, and sometimes that, that bad dark side takes over, I think. I don't know. I don't know. I don't really know. Oh dear, darling. But looking at the bright side, because you must both realise that you're inspirational to a whole lot of people. We are going through a beautiful love affair. I mean, it's a real 100 percent love affair. Apart from being married. Isn't it, darling? It is, it is. Yeah. I mean, you're a witness that you're never too old to get married. Yes. Yeah. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. And so am I, really, though. You know, I'm only 78, so I'm a baby, but actually I think mentally we're about the same. Mentally we are about the same, yeah, yeah. About 16? At times. But I think we, we, we, we laugh a lot. And, yeah, we, we have, do have differences, but it's not really differences, because we have misunderstandings, we have misunderstandings, and then we cry and think, why do we, why is this? This is ridiculous, and we've both come to the conclusion it's because we love each other so much and so deeply that we're easily hurt. And, um, uh, and that is, yeah, so, I don't know. We're both sookies anyway. Well, we're both such shooks. But Sylvia loves my music, which is very important to me because that's all I've ever done really. And um, it was a couple of nights ago, I was sitting at home and, oh, you were out at your writing group. Oh, right. Yeah, at your writing group, that's right. And um, uh, Sylvia came, Sylvia came rushing out, it was about quarter to nine. You came rushing in, took my hand, said, come, come, you must come, went out into the car. I said, where are we going? She said, down to the beach. It was the most glorious sunset. She wanted to share the sunset with me. And this is what we like to do, we like to share all this beauty. The sunset and the birds and, and, and all these beautiful, there's so much beauty around. This is one of the things that I fell in love with you about. We, we used to meet, um, Every day, at the beach, there's a little picnic table at the bottom of Beach Road. And watch the sunset. And... Cole would really see it. You know, some people say, oh yes, that's nice, but Cole would sit there watching it and, and I loved doing that too, and looking at the changing colors and the clouds and the birds coming and going. And it was, it was really special time, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Yeah. Well, it still is really. Yes, yes, yes. It still is. No, we, we don't see the sunset from here as well. But, there's lots of times we go down and look at them. Well, with, but, uh, to have, to be with somebody that understands how you feel about things like sunsets and the Song of the Tui and, and, and just beauty, beautiful things. And, uh, A little puppy dog or a little kitten. But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, a lot of, a lot of people... They call you bit soppy. I've had, I've been called that. Um, and also with the music, when I play music, uh, now my, my music has, has changed a little bit because I play it for my wife. If she's in the audience, I'm, I'm, I'm giving her my guts, my heart, my soul, my everything in my music to her. And, uh, and, and she knows it. I also have to take my cap off and show that to her, but, uh, So that's it, we're, we're very lucky. Um, our ex mayor, whose name was Guru, Uh, he was, he's an Indian, he was a lovely man, and last time I saw him, We talked and I said, yes, I, I, I came back home just to live a reclusive life, not have anything to do with women anymore. And he said, ah, you were meant to come home just to meet Sylvia. Perhaps he was right. Perhaps that was it. And if, if people feel a little inspired by that, that's, that's lovely. Then I was going to say we served our purpose. We haven't really. Our purpose is to be together. I think so. Yeah, it is. And forever. We, we talk often about, we say, I don't know how many times during the day, I love you. Um, I never get tired of saying it, I never get tired of hearing it. And um, it's, uh, I don't know, it's something I haven't felt before. It's, this, this love is quite, quite different darling, isn't it? It does. Yeah. It's great. It's great. It's great. She's got kids and grandchildren. My God, I'm a step grandmother. Ha Yeah, that's right. I have a step grandson who's five? Six. Six. Toby. He thinks I'm his grand too. Goodness me. We started the interview with, uh, each of you introducing each other, and I thought maybe to end the interview, um, could you make a wish for the other person? For the other person? Yeah. You do it first then. Yes, I would, I would wish that my wife never had any pain, physical pain. Oh, darling. No, that's true. I don't, she does have it. And I, I, I'd wish I could take it from her, which I would happily do. And, uh, I just wish that she could always feel joy and happiness for what we have done. And when we lie together. And. When our naked bodies touch, it is something so special and so beautiful that I've not experienced before. Sex, yes, but not this. Not, not the love that goes with it, and the love afterwards that... I, I just wish, I want her to go on feeling that. I know she will, but the biggest wish is that she, she would never have any pain anymore. I don't want... Don't cry, darling. Oh, darling. Well, I wish for you... To go on loving you. I wish we can keep going for a few more years. Yes, I hope we can go, but we don't know. We really don't know. I mean, um... Also, I wish we'd just love every day as though... We don't know, you know, that we evaluate every day together. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1940s ; 1950s ; 1ZB (radio) ; 2020s ; 2ZB (radio) ; Amsterdam ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Auckland ; Auschwitz concentration camp ; Australia ; COVID-19 (coronavirus) ; COVID-19 lockdown ; Christmas ; Coral Trimmer ; David ; Dorothea Franci ; Europe ; Fire and Emergency New Zealand ; Flaming Dagger (gang) ; Frank Sinatra ; God ; Gypsy ; Helen Moulder ; Holland ; Hong Kong ; Janet Holborow ; Jewish Lesbian Group of Victoria (Australia) ; Jewish community ; Job ; Jon Trimmer ; Judaism ; London ; Melbourne ; Nazi Germany ; Nazism ; Netherlands ; Paekākāriki ; Paekākāriki Bowling Club ; Paris ; Pat McIntosh ; People ; Petone ; Poland ; Pomare ; Pride parade ; Pōhutukawa tree ; Radio New Zealand ; Riet Hoagland ; Sadler's Wells Theatre (London) ; St Peter's Village Hall ; Stuff ; Sylvia Bagnall ; The World's (Unofficial) Shortest Pride Parade ; Val Little ; Wellington ; World War 2 ; affection ; ancestors ; army ; arts ; audience ; ballet ; barriers ; beauty ; blessing ; blood ; bordello ; bottom ; brothels ; butch ; cafe ; camp ; cancer ; cars ; change ; children ; clubs ; coffin ; comedy ; community ; composition ; compulsory heterosexuality ; death ; dementia ; difference ; documentary ; dog ; dresses ; emotional ; face ; faith ; family ; feelings ; film ; film star ; fire ; fish ; flaming ; flowers ; food ; friends ; frightened ; fun ; funeral ; gay ; grandchildren ; hair ; happiness ; harmonica ; hate ; hell ; heterosexual ; hiding ; holding hands ; hope ; humour ; labels ; law ; lesbian ; letter ; library ; loss ; love ; lover ; marriage ; marriage equality ; mask ; mayor ; motorbike ; moustache ; movement ; music ; musician ; normal ; occupation ; organising ; other ; pain ; parade ; pardon ; parents ; patron ; performance ; physical pain ; piano ; plan ; police ; politics ; potluck dinners ; prison ; puberty ; racism ; radio ; rejection ; relationships ; resistance ; scene ; sculpture ; security ; sewing ; sex ; sexuality ; shortest pride parade ; shorts ; singing ; smile ; solitary confinement ; soul ; suicidal ; suicide ; sunset ; surface marriage ; teacher ; time ; touch ; truth ; txt ; unnatural ; venues ; walking ; water ; wedding ; wine ; wish ; witness ; women ; work ; worship ; writing. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/coral_trimmer_and_sylvia_bagnall.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1093083. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.