The title of this recording is "Confessions of a Drag Queen". It is described as: Ricky Burjac talks about Confessions of a Drag Queen. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 14th December 2010. Ricky Burjac is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins. Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 45 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast writer/performer Ricky Burjac talks about Confessions of a Drag Queen. The content in the recording covers the decades 2000s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: This interview with Ricky Burjac provides an inside look into life as a drag performer, delving into personal histories, cultural contexts, and experiences in the drag and wider LGBTQ+ community. The conversation covers a range of topics, from societal perceptions and struggles with family acceptance to the vital role drag plays in personal empowerment and entertainment. Burjac, originally from Brazil, discusses the unconventional journey of becoming a drag queen in New Zealand and the craft behind the art form. Through this autobiographical exploration, Burjac touches on the many facets of drag, from the theatricality and performance to the personal transformations and self-discoveries that accompany it. The performer highlights how drag intersects with various aspects of life, referencing experiences of coming out, family dynamics, and cultural influences. Key moments in Burjac's life are recounted, such as realizing their sexuality, navigating early exposure to the gay community in Brazil, and the pivotal experiences after moving to New Zealand. The narrative is filled with anecdotes indicating the influence of popular culture, family dynamics, and societal pressures on a drag performer's life. The interplay between Burjac’s personal life as a member of the LGBTQ+ community and their stage persona - known as Rhubarb - is examined. Aspects of Rhubarb's character, stage presence, and ability to command an audience are discussed as part of the performance identity. The discussion sheds light on the complexities of balancing a stage persona with one's off-stage life. The account also addresses health concerns, often a significant issue in LGBTQ+ narratives, as Burjac talks about naive conceptions of HIV/AIDS in their youth, and the later personal impact of learning about their father's AIDS diagnosis. Furthermore, the interview reveals the significance of theater and performance in advancing LGBTQ+ stories and creating dialogue in society. Burjac also talks about the broader cultural and social changes in both New Zealand and Brazil concerning the visibility and acceptance of LGBTQ+ individuals and the role that media, particularly soap operas in Brazil, have had on public perceptions and attitudes. The discussion provides insights into Burjac's take on the language used within the LGBTQ+ community, including the evolution of terms and identity markers. The artist notably stresses the positive reclamation of the term "gay," and how it serves as a broader descriptor for both the individual and the community. Throughout the interview, themes of family support and rejection are interlaced, reflecting different generational attitudes toward being LGBTQ+ and performing drag, with a note on the mother's support both emotionally and practically in costume design. The contrast between the mother's open acceptance and the father's negative reaction encapsulates the varied responses individuals within the queer community might face. Finally, the conversation pivots towards the development of Burjac's theatre piece, "Confessions of a Drag Queen." This stage performance draws from personal experiences and aims to reach a narrative that resonates with both the LGBTQ+ community and broader audiences. Burjac discusses the intent behind the performance, the creative process, and aspirations for future shows, including the desire to expand internationally and participate in festivals like the Gay Dublin Theatre Festival. Overall, this interview provides a multifaceted perspective on what being a drag performer means to Burjac, set against the backdrop of cultural attitudes and personal experiences that define their journey and work within the performance arts. The full transcription of the recording begins: So my name is Ricky. I'm originally from Brazil and I've been in New Zealand about 10. 5 years and I love theatre. So that's my thing. And confucians of a drag queen is sort of a autobiographical piece about me, but with a lot of magic and fans included, not all true. And I try to portray for the community to see how how is the life of a drag queen, especially from overseas, and the consequences that there is. When a young boy starts doing drag and discovers the gay night life, I think someone once quoted the show as, um, uh, young men struggle with Catholicism, Um, Internalised transphobia, um, sexuality performing and a whole lot of other things and the show really talks about. It's like the story of Ricky coming from New Zealand, his culture changing and also in parallel, the story of rhubarb leaving in a banana boat from South America, thinking she's going to Paris in a boat with a sailor. But actually she she ends up in the land of the wrong white crowd. So when did you realise you were gay? Um, when I was I think I think I always knew, but I think when I was about 13, I kind of like, Mm. I think I like this bit, but I'll keep it private to myself. Yeah, And when I was 17, as gay as it sounds, I had a diary that I started writing. Oh, yeah, I kissed this man. And I think I was quite naive at the time because I was not sure about AIDS and stuff like that. And I wrote about Oh, I kissed the man. Am I gonna have AIDS or something like that? I was very naive, and my mom read it and she sat down with me and she was like, So we should have a chat. And I was like, Mother, I'm a gay. I love the cock. Leave me alone. And that's how I think I fully realised I was gay and came out, and from then on, my whole family knew. So this was back in Brazil. Um, we were already living in New Zealand by then, but we went back to Brazil for a holiday. And it wasn't that holiday that I kind of found my true self and many hot Brazilian men into the beaches. So I was like, Hm, Let's try it out. So how are gay scene in Brazil? It's funny because there is, um, Brazil is a very macho place and very Catholic. So gays still, it's kind of like they're trying to bring it in and be open. But it's not really. And I think if you are uber super gay, it's more acceptable than being just a normal person who is gay. Because, yeah, there is a lot of, um, it's not racism, but still not the right thing. And there is, I think that's the reason why there are so many married in them, not out of the closet. Men in Brazil who does the whole year. I'm a macho, but I actually I like to play it under the sheets with some guys. So when you were 13, were there any kind of images or were you? Did you have an awareness of of gay people? Oh, yeah, quite a big and, um and because at that time, my it's funny because my sister is also gay and she came out when I was 10. So at that time I was really fighting more stuff, and I think because I quite love Madonna from a young age. I think that's how my mom always knew all my love for musicals. So there were I always knew guys and stuff and but it was like that thing I mentioned about being acceptable about being the big you big camping. And that's what I knew about gay. And that was my knowledge, I think. And I found out a lot more when I came to New Zealand and started finding myself more and figuring out things. So what age were you when you moved to New Zealand? 13. And the first time I went to a gay bar I was 14, which happened to be pound because with my sister being gay, she was like, Oh, let's go to Wellington because I first moved to Taranaki, New Plymouth and there is no gay life there. And, uh, my sister was like, Oh, let's go for a driving Wellington. Oh, why don't we go to a gay bar? And I was like, OK, hopefully I'll get in got in and I was like, somehow this feels OK to me, but I'll just keep it to myself. I wouldn't let it out. Just did. Because there is that fear of, like, oh, telling your mother that her other Children is gay too. And, um, yeah, just that fear of coming out and thinking, Fuck, I'm gonna be so repressed. That feeling So yeah, And what was that first experience like of of going to pound at 14? It was It was kind of like one of those movie scenes. I think that you see, I can't remember what it reminded me a lot because when I was in Brazil, I think I was about 10 or eight or something, and I watched Priscilla and I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm never gonna go to a place like this. And then I moved to New Zealand, which is just across the border, and then you go to pound. I think it was Halloween night. And you have, like, I think it's Polly who was doing a show with flames and naked flames going all around the place. And you see the gay men kissing and the music, and it just felt like, wow, it feels like I'm in a movie set. And but the funny thing is that it felt OK and everyone was different and they could wear whatever they want and be whoever they want. But it was OK, That was the biggest impression that I got that. I think that was quite cool. So how did that experience tie in with your Catholicism? Uh, my Catholicism only happened when I was a little kid. Really? Because I used to live with my mom's auntie and she was very, very religious. That kind of goes to church every day, and she used to drag me along. I'm not sure if it was my Catholicism that thought it was wrong to be gay, but just the feeling of maybe disappointing my family, so the Catholicism really didn't do it. But I could just keep thinking if my auntie or my grandma were there, what would they say? And they were like, Oh, this is a blasphemy, you know? But I was like, No, this is kind of fine. And when you eventually did come out to your family, how did they react? It's funny because my mom was like, Oh, yeah, it's new and she took it fine. She was like, Well, no matter what you are or who you are I'm just gonna love you anyway. So who cares when more gay Children just gonna be fine? And after that, she just, like, started doing my drag costumes and do everything for me and supporting and coming to my drag shows at midnight in the gay bar. And I was like, Wow, what a mother I have. Um My sister was fine. She always knew too. She was like, Oh, yeah, I'm a lesbian. I could see from my experience that you gave from when you were a little child to stealing my Barbies, But, uh, the rest of my family took it really well. And they like it's funny because they make fun of rhubarb and my great character and they ask about boyfriends and stuff. And my grandma is quite open about her now. Especially after my sister got civil union and took her partner to Brazil and she she Yeah, she just, like, really accepted well, but the only person who doesn't accept it is my dad, who just didn't take it well and yeah, there is a lot of mixed feelings about that, and he pretty much said to me, Oh, I'm ashamed of you because you're gay, you have sex with men. That's not right. And that's where I saw that macho thing from Brazil coming on. And yeah, because I went to Brazil on that holiday that I came out and I haven't seen him for four years and I met with him, and then he met with my mom by himself and said, Oh, I don't want to see my son. He's too gay now And I was like, Whoa, so that's the only part of my family that didn't accept that Everyone else seems to go quite OK, do you? Do you think that Ma culture in Brazil has changed over the years? Now I think it's slowly changing. It's funny because Brazil is kind of run by the soap operas. They have, like three every night in the main TV station and people live by it and that will, like, dictate the fashion, the music and like whatever happened in the country. And it's funny because they recently had one with a gay couple and they had some I think, about 10 years ago with a lesbian couple, but they didn't go down that well, so they killed the couple in an accident. And, um and they had this gay couple and they were fine with the couple as long as they flirted. But when there was the last episode of the soap opera and they went to Kiss, it was a big thing that the TV station blocked the kiss and didn't go to air. So it's becoming OK. Slowly, but still, there is a a little blockage, I guess. Yeah, so but, um, some of the gay scene is I feel sometimes it's quite different because New Zealand is quite open, but Brazil is more open in some aspects. The it's, I think, because there is more people there and I think that's why it's quite different and more open in some respects. And I think especially with, um, HIV protection as well, because Brazil is quite the number of people is quite big there. So I think there is a bigger care and yeah, about that, then, um, New Zealand. More awareness, I guess. Do you think in New Zealand that, um, people aren't as safe? Hm? I don't think the young people are as safe. I think there is a much more awareness in Brazil for the young people to be quite safe and especially like during carnival time. You just hear all you hear is wear a condom, wear a condom. And I think in New Zealand it's hard to reach those young people, young people, because, see, it's I'll be fine. I'll just take a pill, maybe, Or like, they don't think about the consequences of, like not having sex without a condom and from growing up when in a community where there is so much awareness, I'm kind of more careful about those things. I think you see the younger generation because they haven't been through. I think the older generation has in the eighties with AIDS and things like that. They don't care as much. You can see the difference. We should just also put in context. What what year did you come to New Zealand 2000. So and that when you talk about younger generations, you're talking about people that are what kind of age now, Um I think because in Brazil we start hearing about sex and being careful with it from thir 13 onwards, and I don't think there is so much awareness about that from people that age and I think it's not only in the big cities of New Zealand, but also the smaller cities. So you don't like when I was in high school? I never heard about being careful or looking after myself in that sense. And I think there should be quite a lot more because sometimes younger people just go. Yeah, horny fan, Let's go for it. But don't don't click. You know what I mean? So were you openly out at high school in New Zealand on my last year of high school when I came back from Brazil? Yeah, from that holiday, I I was kind of like, not openly out, but I was like, Yeah, some people know, but I won't try to hide it. It's not that easy to hide, so I'll just if they ask me, I'm gay. If they don't, they don't need to know. But then after I started doing drag and I moved to Wellington, I got a bigger because that was in New Plymouth and then I went to Palmerston North. So it was in Palmerston North, though it became more open. But when I came to Wellington, I saw a bigger scene that was more a community place and then I felt more secure about it. And then I was like, Oh, yeah, this is OK, so yeah, that's no problem in saying that I'm gay. What was it like being gay in Palmerston North? Well, it was it was different. It was OK, but I think the scene is quite different and quite small. Uh, I don't think there is, as much of I think, maybe because I was quite young at the time. But there isn't as much of a community as there is in Wellington and the bars there is no I think there is only one gay bar that I remember sneaking out of my window with my friend to go to it and yeah, it's quite different. And I think there could be more support, especially being quite a big student city. With so many young people already doing university, there could be more support in regards to that. I didn't see so much of it when I was there. So when did you figure out that you wanted to do drag? It's funny because when I came out, my mom always said, Yeah, it's fine. Just be one of those classic guys that don't do drag or be over the top. I was like, OK, so and I and drag always kind of like, went like, No, I'm never going to do that. Never. And, um, I went to I miss Yeah, after pound close went to IMT one night and I met this guy and I went like, Oh, he's cute. Let's go talk to him, Kissed him, had a good night And then the next day, when I saw him, like in full drag and I was like, Oh, my gosh, like I even talk about it in the play and then he was like, Oh, hello, you know me as a boy. But he didn't know me as a girl. Nice to meet you. And I was like, Oh, no, no, no. So I became really good friends with him, and I tell people that's the moment I've got the drag. I who passed me the decease and, um, I started seeing how drag queens were, and I started being like, you know, those sky boys who were always there helping the drag queens and, you know, just being friendly guy and then I was like he was like, Oh, damn, I can't get a drag queen for Friday night. I was like, Oh, can I try? And I was like, What am I doing? I was like, I was thinking like, I'm an actor, So I like, you know, might as well try put a character on. And he was like you sure And I was like, Yeah, why not? And he was like, OK, you need this. This this do your makeup like that and, yeah, choose the show. And I was like, OK, it went from then on. And then apparently my first show was really good and they were like, Oh, you're fab. You should do it more. Then from then on, they asked me to perform at the new town fair, and I just started doing more, and I was like, This is weird. I'm becoming a drag queen. Kind of fell into it. So that checklist that that your friend rattled off What? What What are the things you need? He wrote me a whole list of like what? Makeup? To get Um, like clown white wax for the eyebrows. Um, TV Stick to hide the beard like It just kept going and going, going, going. And I just went, like on a shopping spree. And then he was like, Oh, you got to find a costume. And I was like, Oh, when am I going to find girls clothes that fit me? So I went to the larger woman section at Farmers and I had some of the most embarrassing times of my life trying on cost girls clothes on the mains dressing room. People just left school. Yeah, drag queen. And And I think shoes that because that's always the hardest thing because, like, I'm size 13, So finding woman shoes that fit me were was a big mission. But the warehouse is quite good. And yeah, there was a checklist and he was like, Oh, you got to choose a song. And then he came and saw my performance, my rehearsal before he did it. And he was like, uh, do it like this. Don't don't care so much about the movements because you're gonna forget the lips singing. And yeah, it was a whole list. He he was kind of like he wasn't really my drag mother, but he helped me through it so Can you describe your drag persona Rouge? She came from the slums of Brazil to become a drag sensation. II. I think I loved her. Um, do you know Will and Grace? Karen Walker. She's a bit like Karen Walker. She can be a bitch, but very nice and very funny. And she loves her drinks and rhubarb is She's a star. She knows she's a star, and she loves it. And she loves the attention and the people and the glamour. She loves glamour. She's a train. That's the best way to describe it. You said before it was like an addiction. It can become. It can become. There was a time in my life that, um, I got so excited about it, and you get so overwhelmed by the attention people give give you that it becomes an addiction. Let's do drag more and more and more. And I think when I first started, I was like, every weekend out and drag like people all knew me and you would buy drinks. But then, at the same time, there was a time that kind of wears out a little, and you just go like, uh, they want to block the uh no, not tonight, No, Don. I want to wear high heels now, my feet and yeah, it can become quite an addiction, too, to have that attention, I think. And I think that's why A lot of reasons why drag queens do drag is that attention that they need. Maybe it's, um, I did a research earlier this year at Toy because, see, we worked a lot with, um, people's personality and why they do certain things. And I did a whole research on drag queens, and it's funny because a lot of them used to be quite insecure, and you see that they start taking up drag as a way to feel secure. So it's bringing out their self empowerment, I guess. And I think that's what's the addiction it is is that feeling more and more powerful and the attention you get? You get more attention, and I think that also helps to build your character. And so what do you do it? I think I started saying I was doing just for comedy and fun, but now I do it because, of course I love the attention. But I really love the performing aspect of drag. I think it is a not when it's well done. And you you got to think about every little thing when you do drag. So there is the costume, the makeup, the wig. And then you got to think about the performance. So I really get annoyed when you just go on stage in a drag show and you just see like a drag queen, um, moving the arm, side to side and just lip syncing. I think there is much more to it than that. Uh, I think there is a really theatrical thing about the performance that I really enjoy, being an actor and working with theatre, and that's what I try. And that's what I really like it. And that's why I do it. Um, like one of the best drag shows that I've ever seen was in Brazil, and there was this guy in this full suit who came out like butcher hell, gorgeous man, And within the song, it was a French song I can't remember, but within two minutes he transformed into this drag queen taking off the suit. But the dress, makeup and I really love that theatricality, and I think drag has the power to do that. So I guess that's why I do it. The the performance aspect keeps dragging me because I keep thinking, Oh, I could do it like this. And you just like, constantly during the day you hear a song and you go like, Oh, I'm seeing images. You could do it like this. You could do it like that. And yeah, I love that. And now you've actually added another layer onto that by actually doing a a show about a drag performer. Yeah, because I kept thinking for a while that it's like that song from a musical. You gotta get a gimmick. So you start seeing the drag queens that do really well and you see, like they always have a gimmick. For example, polio. She has fantastic costumes, always looks different. Um, with drum drag. He's got his, you know, drums and plays that Yeah, you always see how they always have something else to add. And I think drag really needs that. So I think my thing was, my gimmick was going to be the acting and turning drag into theatre, and that's why I started doing the play and I was like, Hm. I started doing because I've seen, like, all the funny situations, like getting dragged, and I was like, Let's write about it and then started turning into that and I was like, Oh, maybe my gimmick might be the theatrical elements that I can put into it. So what's it like in this theatre piece? Kind of opening up to the audience and telling some really personal stuff? I remember at rehearsals because pretty much I had to like, together with the director, write a biography of my life and going like, OK, this is what happens. This is what it feels like. And at the time it felt quite scary. And I was I remember and I going on stage, thinking like, Man, I'm actually telling stuff about my whole life. I'm telling about the times that I go to gay saunas and get rejected by men, or that I go to dates and get turned turned off because, um, the guy says No, because I'm a drag queen and like, it's quite little things in your life that you don't think about sharing, and it feels it. It used to feel quite quite scary But then I had a Drake Queen come and watch the show and said, thank you so much. That was like seeing my life on stage. And now he feels quite powerful to help other people to see themselves on stage. So I feel quite open now to be able to share my life and help other people with that. Is there anything that you have in the back of your mind that you haven't shared? Are there things that you just would not? Well, I think there is a few. So it might be x-rayed? No. Um no II. I can't think anything I I think I truly share. I think I think there are things that I haven't shared. But I have shown through subtext Does that make you quite vulnerable? In a way, I guess. Well, I mean, at the end of a performance, I mean, do you feel vulnerable? No, I In the end of a performance, I actually feel quite powerful because it felt like I was there helping people and giving them an insight. But it doesn't feel vulnerable that people can use that to judge me or anything. I felt that I actually used them to not sure to bring awareness but to show them what it's like. But no, not not so, no. And what about audience reactions? How have they been? It's funny because, um, when you do the show in rehearsal, you start getting the comedy and it's like, Oh, yeah, it's funny the first week and then it's funnier. And then it's like it's slowly dying because you really seen 1000 times. And then when we had opening night and the first scene like the first movie I do, they start laughing. You go like we believe they're laughing. It's actually funny. And the reactions has been really good, which I was, which is always surprising because you write your own show, you perform at it and you think, like, are people gonna like it? It's the actor personal thinking. Are they gonna like it? Are they gonna get the jokes? Are they gonna say, Are they gonna connected with it? And the reaction has been fantastic, because I mean by having a drag queen coming on after the show and saying to me, Look, I felt like I was watching myself and having people from the gay community saying, Ah, we heard really good stuff about the show and it was fantastic and I yeah, audience has been amazing and it fell. It feels like when I'm on stage, it's like a mutual connection. So we're kind of flirting with each other, and it's like if I do a mistake, they can excuse me and it's It's like this thing that we like and because of the size of the theatre as well. It's so intimate that the audience reaction can be so good. It's interesting. It reminds me of a quote, Uh, a reviewer gave your first season, which was that you are an act rather than an actor. Yeah dot com said. That, and I started thinking about that, and it's actually kind of true you, I think, with the element of drag, instead of becoming an actor, you become an act, and that's what gives the theatricality of it. Yeah, Speaking of drag theatre shows, can you think of any other show like in New Zealand history that's been like a a theatre show about drag. I mean, does it have a long history? No, I was doing some research on that. I know that Ronald Govert some part of the drag history of New Zealand and drag in mates and lovers. And I know that other theatrical things that has been with drag has been, um, drum drag by Gareth. And, um, I think Paula did some kind of show at bets about the life of Bette Midler. But it hasn't been any real shows that talks about drag, and and I think that's actually worldwide. You don't see much of it happening, and it's quite it's quite a good feeling to know that you are opening up a space for other people to create some work as well. What about gay theatre? Well, I, I use the word gay, but I'm thinking, like, say, Queer Theatre in general in New Zealand, Um, is there much of that going on at this time? I think it's just slowly building up. Um, Silo has been a theatre that does quite a open minded theatre work for quite a while, But I think, and from the time I've been in New Zealand 10 years onwards has been slowly building up. So there was, um, a silo show that tour Auckland and Wellington, um, boys in the band, Uh, and then there was mates and lovers. And then, um, the little dog laughed, which was also done in Wellington and Auckland. And I think it's a slowly I think we after Brokeback Mountain it was OK to have gay in a movie. I think it was OK to have gay in a theatre, so it's slowly processing more and more. And, uh, John Smyth, a reviewer, said that, um, there is clearly an audience, a market out there for that. So I think it's the time now to start building more of those but quality stuff, too. It's not just, um oh yeah, we gaze, Let's do a play about gay But I think you got to see what is going on at the moment that you can talk about. And of course, there are some classic gay theatre pieces that should be maybe done in Wellington in New Zealand again, like beautiful fang and stuff like that that people just haven't seen here. I use the words gay and queer in that last question. I'm just wondering, what kind of words do you use to describe yourself and and your work? I use gay a lot because, um, especially being and walking around people, and they say, Oh, that's gay And I like to use gay as a positive thing. So I always use gay, but I always use, um and how would you define gay? Oh, it's funny because walking around with drag queens, you just go, Oh, that's gay. That's awesome. That's cool. So using gay is a positive thing rather than oh, that that's gay. That sucks. So I use that to describe cool things but also describe myself what I am in the community. But I think GL TT GL BT is quite a important word that I used to because it covers the whole of the community. It's funny, because is that becoming about labels rather than who you are? I think What about words like queer? It's funny because that some of the words I use that word in the show, but it's I. I don't get so much connection with it rather than gay. I think gay has quite a impact. People won't be able to see this in the interview, but I'm blowing my hand. There's an explosion gay, Um, but yeah, I haven't I don't use queer as much, But I think I think maybe that's more of an American term. At times, I don't think it's used. I. I don't hear as much in New Zealand. Queer, That's that's That's gay. Yeah, I'll go with gay. And what about terms in the kind of drag community? What are some of the words that are used to describe drag queens? It's funny because, um, there is an awesome programme called, um, real balls drag race, and it's like he gives a drag dictionary. So you go high high. That means you're sleeping with another drag queen. Um, girl, I'm gonna turn. Um, are you gonna do slap tonight? Which means getting into drags? Or is that whole? Actually, it would be an amazing reading if you could write a dictionary about drag. But I think sometimes drag wins have their own kind of language. That they can understand is much drag history passed down from Queen to queen. I mean, how do you get your drag history? I think they used to be. But the way Wellington queer seen his turn with no opportunity to do drag, there isn't as much Now I think there is more in Auckland. But, um, when I first started, I always heard about the other drag queens from the past from like even before pound. Oh, yeah, That one came from Auckland to work at Pound. And then this drag queen set it up and this one left and never did it anymore. You start hearing about a history which is actually quite interesting. But you you need to have that those older drag people to tell you that history and I think with Wellington there isn't that going on at the moment because you don't have the other people anymore. There is no gay bar or place to cultivate that culture. Why is that? Well, there is no gay bar to do drag. And I think the essence of drag is always at the gay bar because they are always the colour of the gay community. They bring the people in, you know, in. And I don't think the bars in Wellington, I think I know one of the bars really like Dragon. They always supportive they supporting me, but I think the other bar doesn't like Dragon doesn't feel like there is a need for it. When there is when I personally finger is I think it's, um I think it's something essential for the drag community in anywhere in the world. You always see that the drag queens are doing more for the community and being the brand of it. At times, I think the last time I saw drag in Wellington was that, um, Miss Drake Wellington, that they still do every year. But there's still why. So, in terms of your production, your theatrical production, what is the support like from, say, businesses, but also the the The wider gay community here in Wellington has been great support because you always feel the fear of, like, not getting enough support or people not coming to your show. And it's been quite a surprise to see so many people coming and the show selling out and things like that, Um, but I think there is a big difference between sometimes Wellington and Auckland. Maybe because I'm not in that community, it's a bit hard to penetrate into it and, um and I think being New Zealand being so small, that should be should be more open and more supportive of New Zealand wide, not just city wide. So when you say, uh, more supportive, uh, when when you put forward a proposal to businesses to support you? What? What do they come back with? Oh, sorry. We already supported another event in our city. Oh, sorry. Um, we don't have the time. Sorry. It's the recession. Um, sorry. We're busy at that time of the year, and and at times you feel like, Oh, fair enough. There is actually a recession going on. It's hard for everyone, But at at times, you feel like, Oh, you could just, you know, it's not all business, like so. So many places in Auckland have been so supportive, like urge, um dot But others could have been at least. Oh, we can't. We can't give you money. But we could, um you could host your party here, or we could put a poster up for you. So I think there is a difference sometimes that people just go. No, I can't do it now. I can't be bothered. And I think sometimes they may see as competition instead of working together. So what are the businesses that have supported you? Um, funny enough for this season of Auckland. Half of them have been Brazilian businesses because I thought, Well, the play appeals quite a lot to the Brazilian community, so I'm also getting in fight of them. So the Embassy of Brazil was supporting us. But there is also, um, a gay sex shop in Auckland. Peaches and cream. Um, urge Bar is helping us a lot, and they're gonna bring a lot of people to the show dot and one that has helped us a lot both in this season and the season thing has been the New Zealand AIDS Foundation, especially because the show talks about AIDS because my father has AIDS and I talk about it in the show. So they've been they thought it really reflected the show, and they have helped us quite a lot, and it's been amazing support from them. Can you talk a wee bit about your father with AIDS and how you react to that? Um, at the first I heard it was quite a shock because being in the gay scene, you hear, especially after I didn't become so naive. And instead of being more aware, you hear a lot about AIDS, and it's something you're just always supporting people not to get. It was quite hard at the time because he just went Oh, you know, I've got the bug and I was like, What, Bug? Oh, you know, I've got AIDS. And I was like, I was like, but it's fine, It's fine. And I was like, OK, but then at the same time, there was that thing coming from him that, um, this is a gay disease and I was like, Well, where did you get it from then, You know, and which I have no idea, but yeah, it was quite a shock at at first. There is a thing that I talk with my dad that I pushed him upon. It's like, Yeah, you keep calling me gay. However, you're the one who's got AIDS, so don't judge me for it. But at the same time, I go like I'm here to support you, no matter what. It's not just a gay disease. So, yeah, can you talk about, um, the kind of theatrical support that you have? How I mean, what's it like doing a a gay theatre piece in New Zealand? Do you have people that you can talk to about the kind of ins and outs of how it works. Um, coming from to which is the biggest theatre school in New Zealand. Uh, it has been amazing the support we had because they really support students to go and make their own work. And I had great people that's been coming and helped me and giving advice about the show or how to do it. What theatrical way works better and people like Jonathan Henry and, um, Christian Penny people who I worked with And there's been a great theatrical support to get more gay players because they see the need of it. And the market for it, um, bats has been incredibly supportive. Um, Basement has been incredibly supportive, and other theatre people around because they start seeing the work and the craft you're developing, and they want to help you nurture it. So it's It's been great theatrical support this way, and you just mentioned Market, um, what is the market for this play? You know what kind of audiences who makes up your audience? It's really funny, because the first time we did it, we thought, Oh, yeah, we're gonna get a younger gay generation in secondary market would be the older gay generation and then open. But we were surprised at how many women actually came to the show. So, um, primarily our target is the gay generation and especially drag Queens because they identify with the show. There's no way, although, and gay people will identify with the show because it doesn't talk just about drag but a whole lot of other aspects. And I think the wider, um, community as well to give them an idea of what's going on and what's actually like. Because I think there is a lot of people straight people actually, who go to and go like, Oh, I'm not gonna go to because I don't know what it's like or Drake Queens are always rude to you. And I was like, No, no, all Drake Queens are rude to you. I'm the nice one. So come and have an idea of actually what's happening at the moment or why they're rude to you or, you know, it might be just their persona. So I think it's Yeah, it's the gay community to for them to identify and see themselves on stage and the wider community to bring more awareness and let them know what's going on. And did it work out that it was the kind of younger gay audience that came or was it more kind of older people? I think it was really mixed. Really, really mixed. Um, we're hoping that Auckland will have a because of being a bigger place. We have a more younger generation, but I think it used to be 25 upwards. Was more the generation that came and a lot of the older generation came. Yeah, it it was really surprising because you don't know until you're there and you see the audience and you go like, OK, who am I gonna work with tonight? Wow, it's actually who A lot of all the gay men. Oh, wow. It's actually a lot of women, so I don't know, we're we're waiting to see what it's gonna be like in Auckland. And how does it affect your performance in terms of when you look out there and think, Oh, I'm gonna work to this crowd or that crowd. It changes a lot because, um, a lot of the show, it's working with the audience. So I walk around the audience talk with them. Sit down with them, have a chat and you go like, Oh, that one is a bit quiet tonight and more the intellectual crowd that don't don't laugh. They just, you know, go quiet and just listen. But it's awesome. Also, when you got those crowd that just laugh everything. But you also got to be careful All I'm not gonna work just on the crowd's laugh. I gotta be careful of what I'm doing on stage and not just go for the laughs. The interaction between actor audience is hugely important changes every night. But you gotta learn how to read the crowd. And it's usually like the first three minutes you start into the show and you see how much laughs you're getting. You go like, yeah, I got them or yeah, it's gonna have It's gonna be a hard one or yeah, you, you you you have to always like read it and see how it works. Hey, so this second season, what's changed in the production? A lot. There is a really like new characters, new scenes, and we got rid of some of the scenes that we don't like and there's gonna be a whole new design and because we always think with the work, we do how to make it better. And we always like that idea of improving and taking it away and making it better. So people in Auckland can expect a whole different version of the show than in Wellington. It's gonna be new songs, because that's quite a fun thing. Um, rhubarb doesn't lip sync, she sings. So there's gonna be music specially written for the show by our fantastic musical director Hali. And, um, yeah, it's gonna be quite a different feeling, especially being in Auckland. So do you find rhubarb? Kind of seeps out at odd times. What do you mean? Well, like, I mean, you're you're walking down the street, and suddenly you know, you have a rhubarb moment where you think Oh, this is rhubarb, not me. Yeah, there is a lot of time that I go and talk to people and start doing like, Oh, I'm talking like we're about Oh, wait, I haven't got a wig on and I go like, Oh, wait, Control Ricky Control. You're Ricky. You're not wearing women's dress. You're not in high heels. So there is quite a lot that sometimes it's just like, you know, it's your alter ego. Sometimes you're just gonna totally fall into that. But sometimes I have to go like No, wait, I'm Butch today. No, no, I haven't got a wig on. Just keep going. And so is the production just going to be in Auckland or are you touring it? We're taking to Auckland, then Wellington, and there has been talks about taking to South Island. So we're negotiating with people down there and we're really looking at maybe taking to Australia next year or the year after. So it's a work in progress, So we're always working and seeing how it goes. And where can we take it? My dream would be to take to the gay Dublin Theatre Festival, so we'll see how that negotiations and money talks go for that. But that would be my dream. So who knows? And finally, when your mother sees your drag act, um, how does she react now? Um, it's funny because she came to the play and she saw me playing her and she was like, Why did you play me with that wig? That's hideous. My hair is so not like that, but, um at first my mom was like, Oh, yeah, do a drag. She didn't come to my first show and and then she started saying she was like, Oh, for fucks sake, if you're gonna do it, do a ride. So I started making my costume and saying, No, don't wear that No, that song's not funny or otherwise. She It's funny because like, I'm walking down in Melbourne with her shopping and she was like, Oh, those shoes would be perfect for RBA. So my mom is actually my number one thing because she supports me in everything she does everything I well, I do or rhubarb does. So she always goes like when I do a drag show, I go like Mom, What do you think of this song? And she was like, No, rhubarb is more dancing. You should have a dance. No, no, that's too slow. So she reacts amazingly well, when I first did Miss Greg Wellington, she was there in the audience all night, changing my costumes and helping me backstage. And, um, yeah, I couldn't have a mother who reacts better to drag than her. She always it's funny because I'm like her. I think she because she loves dolls. So in reality, I'm a bigger version of a Barbie doll. She's just like, yeah, she was like, Oh, but that colour would look so good on you. I'll buy some fabric. We'll make something. Yeah, it's amazing. I love my mom. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2000s ; 2010s ; Auckland ; Australia ; Bats Theatre ; Brazil ; Catholicism ; Confessions of a Drag Queen ; Drag Queen ; Drum Drag ; Dublin ; God ; Korea ; Madrid ; Melbourne ; New Plymouth ; Older People ; Palmerston North ; Paris ; People ; Ricky Burjac ; Space ; Stuff ; The Closet ; Wellington ; accident ; acting ; addiction ; advice ; audience ; bars ; biography ; boat ; building ; camp ; checklist ; children ; choice ; church ; closet ; comedy ; coming out ; community ; competition ; connect ; costumes ; culture ; dance ; death ; design ; diary ; difference ; dog ; dolls ; drag ; dream ; empowerment ; escape ; family ; fashion ; fear ; feelings ; french ; friends ; fun ; gay ; glamour ; growing up ; hair ; high heels ; history ; kissing ; knowledge ; labels ; language ; lesbian ; love ; macho ; makeup ; marriage ; movies ; music ; musicals ; normal ; opera ; opportunity ; other ; painting ; performance ; persona ; power ; proposal ; queen ; queer ; queer theatre ; race ; racism ; reading ; research ; sailor ; scene ; school ; sex ; sexuality ; shopping ; silo ; singing ; soap ; stereotypes ; straight ; struggle ; subtext ; suit ; support ; theatre ; theatrical ; time ; top ; tourism ; transphobia ; walking ; wig ; work ; writing. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/confessions_of_a_drag_queen.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand. For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089175. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.