The title of this recording is "Charles Allan Aberhart memorial - interviews". It is described as: Interviews with family members and people who attended the memorial event to honour Allan Aberhart, on the 60th anniversary of his killing in Hagley Park. It was recorded in Hagley Park North, Christchurch on the 23rd January 2024. This is an interview with Denis Aberhart, Gavin Young, Grant Robertson, Hugh Young, John Wooles, Kelly Hopkins, Lianne Dalziel, Lily McFarlane, Loren Aberhart, Maree Richards and Nicole Skews-Poole. The interviewer is Gareth Watkins. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 56 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Interviews with family members and people who attended the memorial event to honour Allan Aberhart, on the 60th anniversary of his killing in Hagley Park. The memorial itself, took place in Hagley Park on 23 January 2024 and can be heard here. A special thank you to the Rule Foundation for funding the recording of this significant event, and to the Aberhart whānau for allowing the memorial to be recorded and shared. The content in the recording covers the decades 1960s through to the 2020s. A brief summary of the recording is: The recording presents a poignant narrative marking the 60th anniversary of the death of Charles Allan Aberhart. It encompasses a series of interviews with Aberhart's family members, friends, and key figures in the LGBTQ+ community, offering diverse perspectives on his life, death, and the consequent social and legal ramifications. The narrative begins with personal reflections from Aberhart's great-niece, Loren Aberhart, who speaks about the emotional significance of the memorial for their family. Loren eloquently describes the event as a healing process, helping to address the long-standing generational trauma associated with Aberhart's tragic death. The interviews with family members reveal Aberhart as a kind, gentle individual with artistic talents, providing insights into his character that extend beyond the circumstances of his death. These personal anecdotes are interspersed with discussions about the broader societal impact of Aberhart's story, particularly emphasizing the advancements in LGBTQ+ rights in New Zealand. Parts of the recording focus on the expungement of his criminal conviction for homosexuality and Nicole Skews-Poole, underlines the transformative changes in New Zealand's legal landscape concerning LGBTQ+ issues. The recording not only celebrates these advancements but also sheds light on the continuing challenges faced by the LGBTQ+ community. Accounts of recent hate crimes in Christchurch, shared by Kelly Hopkins, serve as a stark reminder that, despite progress, the fight against homophobia and discrimination is ongoing. The recording also captures the sense of community and solidarity prevalent at the event. Notable figures like MP Grant Robertson and former Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel discuss their roles in supporting LGBTQ+ rights and the significance of the memorial in fostering communal healing and remembrance. The establishment of a memorial fund in Aberhart's name is highlighted, illustrating the community's commitment to honoring his legacy while actively working towards a more inclusive and safe society for LGBTQ+ individuals. The full transcription of the recording begins:  So my name's Loren Aberhart. I'm the great niece of Charles Alan Abahart and we've been here today at a memorial event to commemorate his memory and to celebrate his life on the 60th anniversary of his death in Hagley Park. What has today meant for you? Today's been a really cathartic experience for the family. It's the first time that we've been to the site of his murder. Um, and for our family it was a story that was It's kept under wraps for many years and had a lot of associated generational trauma with it. Um, and so I think today was a bit of a bookend to actually remember him as a person, to celebrate his life, and to acknowledge that his death left a huge legacy and a positive impact on the gay community. And when you see the amount of people that were there today, um, it was amazing. It had such a wonderful feeling to it, didn't it? As a family, we were just delighted by the amount of people that turned up. I didn't expect that at all. And it was just incredible to feel that solidarity around the family, but also around the queer community. And All coming together and to have mana whenua there as well to release the tapu from the site. That was so meaningful, um, and I think that it's just going to continue to create awareness about the changes that still need to be made to support our queer community and being safe. So what are your memories of Alan? I never met Alan. Uh, I was born about 20 years after he passed. Uh, but I have a lot of memories of, um, his brothers who were all really colorful characters, uh, and my grandfather, who was his brother as well. They were, um, Larger than life personalities. They all loved a good chat, a good tease. One of them was a magician, another one was really into his birds. They were just a really cool quirky group of brothers. How does the family talk about Alan? Uh, so as you heard today, the family talk about him with fond memories. I think that they absolutely adored, uh, everything that he brought to the family. The colour, uh, his artistic side, his performances with the Blenheim Operatic Theatre. And they all talk about him just as a really kind and gentle person. That's one of the standout things for me today is that I was aware of his tragic death and the injustice after that, um, but I wasn't really aware of Alan as a person, and I think today it really has shown Alan as a person. I think a big part for the family today was to show who he was and to show the deeply human and personal side to tragedies like that. That it's not just a miscarriage of justice. It's actually taken someone's life and really impacted an entire family and generations. We've missed a person in our lives because of the acts of those six people on that day. Alan's death has garnered over the decades quite a lot of media attention. How has the family dealt with that? I think for the family, the media attention has been something that we've shied away from. We're naturally, uh, a little bit Private. And I think because there was trauma around, uh, his death and at the time, from what I understand, some of my great uncles, my uncles, my dad, they were teased and bullied because of their association with Alan. Um, and so really the family rhetoric through many years was to just slightly hide from it all. So now I think we're ready. To be out in the open, uh, out of the closet, so to speak, and to openly say we're really proud of who Alan was as a person. We're proud of his legacy, and we want to be able to use his memory to continue to support the queer community. And I think one of the big moments around that was when, uh, his earlier criminal conviction was expunged. Can you talk to me about that process? The expungement of Alan's conviction was something that was led by one of my cousins, Nicole. We didn't know that that was available, to be honest. And I think, um, because the family had quashed that, Um, the memory of his death, um, so deeply. I don't think any of us realised that he had a conviction to be honest. Um, or if we did, we didn't know it was a thing that could be done. Um, for him to have a clean slate and to put that to rest is so meaningful. Um, for his memory. What he did was not a crime. His conviction of homosexuality was openly admitted to be consensual. He turned himself in. It would not be a crime. It is not a crime, but in this day and age it certainly wouldn't be. And so the overturning or the expungement of that conviction is really meaningful. If you had an opportunity to say something to Alan now, what would that be? I think I would say, you deserve to live. Um, and I wish you had lived now, because you could have been the colourful character that you are, uh, and been yourself in this day and age. And I really hope that young men just like Alan now, are able to live their lives as colourfully as they like. Um, and just to thank him for, uh, leaving such a positive legacy on our society. So, uh, Grant Robertson, uh, and we are standing in Hagley Park North, uh, today, uh, at the site of the Aberhart. And this is a very special day because it's the 60th anniversary of his death. Uh, we've just had, uh, a very emotional memorial, how, how, how did you feel about that? Yeah, it was a very emotional memorial, um. The family of Alan Abaha, you know, were the center of today, and that's exactly as it should be. And it was, you know, extremely emotional to hear how they really weren't able to be part of grieving for him when he died. They didn't even know exactly what had happened to him for many of the family. And most of them had never been here. So hugely important, 60 years on, to acknowledge that. for the wider queer community to be able to be part of acknowledging Alan too and what happened to him, and what we hope for the future. And also the amazing work that your government and yourself have done with the expungement legislation. Yeah, I mean, I was approached by one of Alan's great nieces in, uh, 2019, about. his conviction and, um, it was one of the first ones that we were able to take all the way through and have it, uh, removed. Um, his conviction particularly took very little analysis. It was for a consensual homosexual act, um, and so it was clearly within the boundary of the law that we passed. So that kind of, for me, began the ball rolling. I didn't know anything about Alan and it was obvious. Obviously, um, an amazing story and a very sad story and I've worked with Nicole, um, his great niece for a few years now and great for them to be able to be here today too. How easy is it to get those expungements through because I imagine that there must be a lot of detail that's actually not on the records. That's right. So the Ministry of Justice, um, will look at each application, um, if there are good court records or good other records, it's easy. If there's not, then they have to do work. They also need to look at the particular conviction to ensure themselves that it fits within the definition that we put in the Act. Obviously, you know, for people who were engaging in consensual homosexual acts, it's pretty clear. Sometimes there were other convictions that were associated with those, and so the Ministry of Justice look at that to see whether it fits the criteria. One of the things that quite shocked me today was, uh, when someone got up and talked about the, the kind of queer bashings that are still happening in Christchurch. I mean, it's, it's the reality of a lot of our rainbow community that there is still a lot of discrimination, there are still hate crimes, um, and yeah, awful to hear that that's still going on. And the very reason why we need to acknowledge Alan and also commit ourselves to working into the future to create a safer, um, more inclusive environment and that's why it's great that the family are going to be working with the Christchurch Foundation and the Rule Foundation to, to get some support and some funding out there for, for those, um, groups that are still affected by these kinds of crimes. What do you think can be done about it? Well, I mean, it seems a bit of an age old kind of thing. It is and I, and I, you know, we used to talk about it. a lot about the fact that we had the legislative agenda that we've had, um, to, you know, to right a lot of wrongs. But there's a, there's another agenda, which is, I guess, the attitudinal one, which you can never, Parliament can't make a law about. Um, it's about our communities standing together to be clear about what is and isn't acceptable and what is right and what is wrong. And so we have to call out these situations. We have to get the community behind it. Pleased to hear today that the focus the family want is around hate crimes because that's actually gives us a chance to be able to expose this and, and bring the community together to oppose it. Dennis Abahat, um, uh, nephew of Alan Abahat. who lost his life here to, uh, an event, uh, 60 years ago today. Um, he was the oldest of my, of, uh, the fam five brothers that my father came from, the fam the Aberhart family, and lost his life here. And so we're here today to, um, lift the tapu, and to have a blessing, and to launch, um, a foundation for, uh, the rainbow community. Um, And, uh, so the whanau got together to come to celebrate this, and we are really pleased that, um, he is being remembered, and, and there are good things that are coming out of his sacrifice, really. What has today meant for you? Well, it's meant that, probably that, um, very few of us have ever come to this site. And, um, because 60 years ago we had to find out a lot of the information. through, uh, and we're still finding out information, but it meant the whanau got together, we've come to where Uncle Alan did lose his life, and then we've obviously all read the trial transcripts that, um, a big injustice was, uh, was, uh, served, and the fact that, um, we, uh, but the things that have happened since then, so the things that happened and he's remembered for today. There's a change, but there's still things to be done, but that he's being brought forward when it comes to things to help the rainbow community and that's good for us. So we're, as a family, we're great and pleased that that's happening and it's a memory. A lot of people around the country know about Alan's Tragic killing and his life, but not many people know about him personally. Do you have any personal reflections? Oh yeah, I was almost 11 when it happened and Uncle Alan was just a really good person. Kind, generous, caring, reserved. But he was multi talented too. He, uh, he was an actor. He was an actor for, uh, shows in Blenheim. Uh, good piano player, good singer, knew lots of magic tricks in St. John's. So he was very much involved in the community. But He shared his talent and, um, he's probably the most reserved of the Abahat boys, but I always remember Uncle Alan as just being a real gentleman, always well presented, always well dressed, um, and if you were thinking of him that, you'd think kindness, you'd think uh, interest, uh, he would be engaged with you, that, uh, you know, he was interested in what you were doing. So I, that's the sort of thing, I remember him, and I'd say he's just a, He was a bloody good bloke. What kind of age were you when you knew him? Oh, well I was almost 11 when he died. So we used to go and visit the family. We lived in Mataweka and they lived in Blenheim. And we used to go over and visit and have holidays there and stay there. And he'd come the other way. So that's the age sort of that I, um, remember him. But a lot I've found out. The events of here have obviously been subsequent to that, and reading court documents and things like that. But, um, I just remember him as a really good uncle. So, so nowadays, um, being part of the rainbow community is probably a lot more open than what it was back in the 60s. Back in the 60s, did anyone ever discuss, you know, like gayness or homosexuality? No, not really. And, uh, uh, dad never talked about it, never talked about the fact that it was used against him at his, at his trial. And, uh, the fact that he had spent time in jail. Um. which he wouldn't do today, um, so that's a massive change, but not really talked about. So, uh, and probably not really aware of it, but, um, 60 years is a long time ago and thankfully a lot of changes since then still work to be done, but thankfully a lot of changes occurred since then. In Alan's case, uh, the youths were acquitted. How do you, as a family, make Peace with that, if, if you do. Well, not really, because it doesn't make any sense. Because no family members went to the court case. Um, so there's a lot of unanswered questions, but when you admit it, when you say you did it, and you get off, and, uh, when you read some of the things that were said about Uncle Alan, and they used his character, and the youngsters of the youth, you think How did that, if that wasn't brought up, it was a jury trial, and um, they were acquitted. Doesn't make any sense. And it will never make any sense. We can just assume that other elements came into the decisions. How is Alan seen now within the family? Oh, he's just the same. Uncle Alan, um, of course we need to make sure that the next generation are aware of him. But, he doesn't change. Uncle Alan was a good bloke. What's your favourite memory of him? I think that just, you know, being there and him involving himself in family events and things, just that, um, It's not so much a memory, but a memory is, but as a person, he was, he was just there and supportive and those things. That's what I remember of him. I'm Leanne Dalzell. I am the former Mayor of Christchurch but, uh, for, prior to that I was a Member of Parliament and have been involved in, uh, many of the law reform activities around, um, uh, the rainbow community and, uh, although I wasn't in Parliament at the time of homosexual law reform, uh, I was a, a young the activists within the union movement, and I remember one of my very first public speeches, uh, was advocating, uh, on behalf of our union for, uh, homosexual law reform. So my interest goes back a long way, and today has been about acknowledging that Through the history of time, many people who come from the rainbow community have experienced not just discrimination and prejudice, but actually have had their lives taken and to come here to this place on this day, uh, to recognize that and to commit to ensuring that others are able to live safe and inclusive lives, I think that's, um, that's a good thing to do. It was very moving today, uh, for seeing the family here for the very first time. Yeah, I spoke to, uh, um, one of the One of Alan's nephews, and, uh, he said, well, he spoke, obviously, in his, in his talk about It was the first time that he'd been here and he lives here in Christchurch and has for many, many years. And, uh, I think there is something about coming to a place like this with a, uh, a wider group of the community and, um, supporting the family, uh, as we then all support each other. How do you think Alan has changed New Zealand society? Well, I think that it's a story that needs to be told. Uh, we heard the family, uh, didn't know about, uh, what had happened. That, why he'd had died, uh, what, you know, what had occurred. They knew none of the, the history, um, that, that lay behind it. And I think that's common in many families around New Zealand. There will be people in their family tree who will be exactly the same. They will have, a story somewhere in the past that has been hidden. And I think what Alan's legacy is, is that it enables people to speak openly and freely about these things in order to ensure that they don't happen again. We've been in Hagley Park at the memorial service or commemoration of the death of Alan Abahat, who was the man that was killed in Hagley Park in 1964 by six youths and, um, at the trial of those youths where they had all but admitted, uh, the, uh, killing, um, the jury found them not guilty. So it was always regarded as a gross injustice. Um, and it's always been an issue for the, for the gay rights movement or. the homosexual rights movement over those years, uh, because it was just such an injustice and, and it's never really been righted. I've heard that it was one of the catalysts for gay liberation. Is that correct? Um, well, the, the first organisation, the political organisation, was Homosexual Law Reform Society, which formed in 1967. Um, The research that I've been doing, um, suggests that that wasn't the case. It was a, it was an egregious case, which, um, the, uh, certainly was an issue, but it wasn't the catalyst for the formation. There were a lot of other things going on, um, as well. Can you describe, uh, the feeling from today's memorial? Um, it was a really moving service. Um, the family had come together and they spoke, um, many publicly for the first time. Um, some had never been to the site. Um, the, the, the commemoration was held on the site where he was killed. And, um, some had never been there before. Um, but they spoke very movingly about Alan as a person, which is, which is what we need because all we hear about is all of the, you know, the, the nasty things that happened to him, but also the way he was presented as a, as a pervert and a convicted pervert because he'd been, uh, to prison, um, and he really needs to be presented as a person and he was. Yes, that was fascinating to hear from, from the family about descriptions of Alan, because I, as you say, I'd only heard of the, uh, his tragic death and not actually who he was as a person. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that came across very much from the family. And I think, I think that's, that's where we need to go, um, with. With the story about Alan, we need to remember that he was a person and he, you know, he had a life to live and that was taken, um, and the, the young men that got off have gone on and lived their lives with no consequences and that was the injustice. And for me, one of the biggest shocks, uh, at the memorial today was hearing that those queer bashings are still happening in, in Christchurch. Yes, and that's, um, that in itself is a tragedy. Um, and what they were saying, uh, the person that spoke had been beaten up. And that is different these days because it was all streamed, uh, online. And that's, that's absolutely disgusting. But it also, um, means that the perpetrators can be more easily identified, I suppose. But even so, um, it's, it's disgusting that that is still happening. And just finally, how has Alan and what happened to Alan impacted on your life? When I first joined Gay Liberation in the 1970s, um, this was a case that I heard about. So it was, you know, like 10 years or more after his death, um, it was still, um, a, an egregious case that the movement, you know, um, was, was, You know, still very, very aware of. So, it was, it was a motivating force for the movement and what happened to try and put that right. And a lot of, a lot of things have happened and we certainly live in a better society, but it's not perfect. And as you say, there are still gay bashings going on and, you know, that's got to be stopped. I'm Kelly Hopkins and I'm here today at the memorial for Alan Everhart, who was, um, brutally murdered in Hagley Park in 1964. Can you describe what the feeling at the event was like? I think the feeling at the event was, um, one full of love. It was an event, um, to honor the memory of Alan. Um, it was an opportunity, I think, for his whanau to gather and for, for, for members of the rainbow community and others to, to gather at the spot where, um, this horrific crime occurred, um, that cost Alan his life, but, um, led to some really important reforms in New Zealand, uh, that, um, made life better and easier for future generations of, of rainbow community. At the event you spoke, and you spoke about some queer bashings that, that happened last year. I mean, how did it make you feel hearing something that had happened to Alan 60 years ago was still happening today? I became really aware of Alan's case through what happened to me last year in April. Um, and, um, I was one victim in many. There was an ongoing and sustained campaign of. Um, hate crimes that occurred across three months last year, perpetrated by young, under 18 youth offenders. Um, I, today, attending the memorial for Alan, I, I really felt for Alan. Um, I feel, um, a real kinship with him, in that I could, standing in the spot where he lost his life, Um, and just imagining those last few minutes, because I experienced something very similar last year myself, um, when I was attacked in the dark in a park by, between six and eight, um, men clothed in black who had set out deliberately to do that. Um, and it's, it's, it's still quite raw, it's quite emotional. Uh, it brings up a lot of feelings for me. Um, one of which is, I feel a responsibility to, to keep. The public awareness that these things are still happening. They didn't stop happening in 1964, they didn't stop happening in 1984. And in fact, you know, with social media these days, and with the, the kind of society that we live in, and with all of the things that are going on inside young people's brains, and the messages they're receiving, and what's on social media for them, um, there's a lot of, of, of hatred and anger, um, and victimization happening out there. So, I think it's really important that we, we remember Alan, and we remember that he, he lost his life, but that it can also happen today, and it still does happen today. Um, so for me, it was really important to be here and, um, to, to take that time to remember. In Alan's case, um, the youths came to Hagley Park specifically to belt up some queers, I think the, the, the quote was, in, in your case and the cases from last year, how were, how were they, how was that going down? Um, so there was a, a, a group of, um, youths, youth offenders, who gathered and actually used Grindr. To chat with and lure, deliberately, uh, their victims to various parks around Christchurch so that they could beat them. Um, they were very planned. Um, they were very violent. Um, some cases spent hours chatting with their victims to lure them to come, um, and to be harmed. Um, these weren't cases of somebody being in the wrong place at the wrong time, somebody looking at somebody the wrong way in a bar. These were places where the perpetrators deliberately set out time and time and time again to hurt and harm gay men. So, some of these cases have, have, have they gone before the courts? These cases are still going through the court. Due to the ages of the offenders, um, they are going through the youth court. The youth court process is quite protracted. Um, the offenders are highly protected. And the victims, for victims it almost feels like you're being re victimized again and again and again as you go through this process. And the process is still nowhere near ended and it's almost a year since these crimes were committed. Um, we know who committed the crimes. Um, but the, the length of the process is in, uh, deciding what would be an appropriate outcome for those perpetrators. They obviously need help. The, the, the, the generous part of me does want to say that yes, they do need help. Um, they do need help, but I do not think that that outweighs the help that their victims need. And I do not think that that outweighs the help that the Rainbow community still requires. And I do not believe that it excuses their deliberate, pre planned, violent attacks. Yeah, and I should put a rider on that. I mean, they need help, but actually they also need to be held accountable. Yes, um, the extent of, um, the injuries and the trauma that was inflicted on them, uh, inflicted by them on, by, on multiple victims, some of whom are still unknown, and some of whom still haven't come forward, is It's, um, unbelievable and I can't talk about the details of the crimes. What I can say is that for a number of minutes, in my personal experience, I believed I was going to die. I was physically very violently assaulted and I couldn't even see who my assaulters were. They ran at me out of the dark, all dressed in black. So, um, They do need, they do need to face consequences for what's happened, and I think even for the victims out there who maybe haven't come forward, haven't felt that they can, Um, that maybe some of them will hopefully see this process play out, and that, um, that, you know, the, the court will feel empowered and responsible for, for handing down, um, some sentences that really represent and, and address the seriousness of these crimes. Um, and that these people will, even though they're not able to maybe come forward and participate in the process, that they'll see that justice is done. Can you speak to what the after effects have been for you? Uh, for me personally, I think, um, The after effects have been huge and, um, currently, um, I'm not working. Um, I've, I've had, uh, at this point, ten months where it feels like the assault is just ongoing and ongoing. Um, and this is due to, like, a lot of factors. Uh, when I first reported this assault to the police, um, a statement was taken and I was told, well, we'll put it in the system but we're not going to do anything to follow it up because you've given us nothing to go on. Still sounds very 1964, doesn't it? Um, I went back to work, and, um, it wasn't until several weeks later that the police contacted me to ask for a formal statement because some, um, other things had occurred, and they were now looking at this. That began a really long process because there are multiple offenders involved, really hard to identify them. It's hard for the police It's social media. But every time a new offender is identified and charged there's a process, there's a family justice process with Oranga Tamariki involved. So you know as a victim we're Required to sit in front of and across from these violent offenders, um, and share with them how successful they were in harming us, you know? Um, these are young people who, from what I can see, don't feel any remorse, they're not remorseful about their actions, um, and have to go through that over and over and over again, um, You know, there were times when every day there was a call from the police, or the court, or Rangatamariki, or some statement I had to prepare, or some, some offender that I had to face. Um, and the system has actually made me feel like I am still being assaulted, nine months later, you know. So, um, I think it's really, really been, it's been massive. I think, um, you know, I'm lucky I lived and, and hopefully the rest of these victims in Christchurch now did, and, and Alan was not so lucky to walk away with his life. Um, but what it has inspired me to, to, to realize is that these, people expect us to stay silent. We're conditioned to stay silent as gay men. People spit on us in the street. They call us. It's all kinds of names. There's always a threat that you're going to get beaten up. And so, for myself, you know, I've always tried to stay as quiet and invisible as possible in public. Um. And they, they rely on us staying silent and invisible. And I'm not going to do that anymore. Because, doing so is what allows these, these offenders to get away with it, what encourages them to do it even more. And if the victims don't speak up, especially in this case that's currently happening in Christchurch, and there's no face of the victims, then it's just another victimless crime. Um, and then, so I really want the courts to be aware, I really want the parents of these offenders to be aware, I really want the public to be aware that actually, you know, the, the, the teenager next door coming for a family barbecue, or the guy that's on the sports team with your son, could be out there committing these crimes. Um, they're, they're, they're young people in, you know, in society and it's not always who you expect it will be either. So I want everybody to be really aware that it's out there and it's happening, um, and you know, we get told, oh, well, these are good kids. They are not good kids and they're not good people. And we really need to push to ensure that they get, um, the right consequences for their actions because their actions were severe. I'm Nicole Skews Poole and today we are at Hagley Park in Christchurch. And we've been at a very special memorial this morning. Tell me about that. Um, today was the culmination of a huge amount of work from the Aberhart whānau. They, um, worked with Mana Whenua to have a tapu lifting ceremony and, uh, launch the intention for a memorial fund in the name of Alan Aberhart, um, who, this time 60 years ago, was murdered here in a gay hate crime. And what's your relationship with Alan? I'm a distant relative. In 2017, under the Homosexual Convictions Repeal Act, I applied, um, through the Ministry of Justice to have Ellen posthumously expunged of a conviction, um, um, That he was imprisoned for and recently released from prison when he was murdered, um, and we know that the, um, the conviction wouldn't have stood up in today's laws, um, and so through that expungement process, uh, his name was cleared and his, his criminal record was cleared. Why was it important for you in particular to do that? I think that injustice was just so huge and it was a series of. injustices that Alan experienced. And I think I had the really strong sense that, um, the outcome of the trial of the young men that murdered him might have been different if it hadn't have been kind of common knowledge that he was a criminal that had recently been in prison. I think that contributed to an overall sense that perhaps his life and his memory wasn't as important as the outcome. potential bright futures of the young men who set out that night to Beat the crap out of someone and killed them. Um, and I think for me, um, it was good timing in that when I sort of found out about Alan and that I was distantly related to him, I was aware that the Convictions Repeal Act had recently come into operation and I knew that that was an avenue to go down and so I basically showed up at Grant Robertson's office and just continued to annoy him for the next few years. So, take me through the process. What was the process of, of doing the expungement? So, um, I needed to apply, um, I needed to make an application to be an applicant, if that makes any sense. Love a bit of bureaucracy. Um, so if the person who was convicted had died, they wanted to know, like, you know, okay, so then who are you applying for and why? And, and, and they, I had to draw a family tree for the Ministry of Justice and they deemed me, um, appropriate to act as Alan's advocate and, um, then they go and look at the court records because they used such kind of strange terminology so I think it was indecent assault that he was convicted for and so they need to find out whether that was the sort of conviction that would hold up in today's court, um, and unfortunately in the case of Alan's trial the court. Reporting was there, but the court documents were not, and so they weren't able to really easily identify straight away that it was, uh, not an indecent assault, but through court reporting, they were able to find out that the, um, other person, I guess, in the, um, In this story was an adult man who had consented, uh, and that, um, Alan had actually had the opportunity to deny his involvement and had said, uh, nope, this happened, um, was incredibly brave and I found out today from family members that actually he might have proactively gone to the police station when he found out that they were asking around about that stuff and said, yep, I did this, um, and I think he, you know, he knew, he did that. Knowing that he could have denied it really easily and perhaps not gone to jail. Um, and that is what the Ministry of Justice team used to inform their, um, decision making around would this hold up in court today. So, eventually they got to the point, um, where they went, okay, no, this was consensual between two adult men, um, it was something that he, uh, That, that was reported on at the time, even if we can't find the documents, and so we're pretty confident that this would not stand up and, um, therefore we can grant him an expungement. And so they wrote, uh, Justice Andrew Kibble White wrote a letter that basically said this was our process, this is what we did, um, and now you can kind of confidently say that Alan has absolutely no criminal record whatsoever. And, and that happened, sorry, in, in, um, 2019. I think it took, it was a couple of years. That process. Yeah. That's a huge journey. And that's potentially bringing up a whole lot of, um, feelings that the family had kept inside for decades. How, how was the family through that process? Were, were they support for what, what, what, how, how did the family cope with all of that? I think it was hard, but I think, um, from that point on to where we are now today, where they're launching the intention for a family, you know, um, a family run fund or a family sort of supported fund, I think, um, there's been a huge amount of open heartedness and healing and that's been, um, really beautiful to be a small part of and to sort of just watch that Closer family, um, you know, family that were closer to Alan, um, sort of be here today and the massive, um, walk that they've been on together is just, um, I'm in awe of them. Yeah. And that, that sense of healing was evident today. Uh, I mean, when the family were talking and saying that they, they hadn't been to Hagley Park in all this time. Yeah, it's pretty huge actually. And I think, um, I think that's. And, um, I'm both happy and sad. It's sad to hear that that was the case, but happy that they're there now, or they were here now. Yeah. If you had a chance to say something to Alan now, what would that be? Um, that I'm proud to be his ancestor in both blood and in the queer community, that I'm really proud of him. That I know on some level he was proud to, actually. And that I'm sorry that it took his loss of life for so much change to have occurred. But that, in his name, so much positive change and agitation and struggle came forth. And that every queer person has benefited from that ever since. My name is Hugh Young, and we've been at a memorial service to Alan Aberhart, who was murdered here 60 years ago today. And 60 years ago today, I was riding my bike through Hagley Park to go to work as a student in the railways, and I was stopped by the police. Uh, and couldn't go through the park because something had happened there. And I didn't learn probably till the afternoon or even later, would, would be, there were two papers there and it was the star sun in the afternoon. It's probably how we learnt that a man had been murdered here. And so over the next few weeks, the trial happened of these six youths and they were acquitted. And Liberal Christchurch was shocked that they were acquitted. And there was an article in the press, uh, the editorial in the press said, uh, we hope that the jury was not swayed by this man's character. And um, you have the rest of the story about the Dorian Society's, um, uh, Homosexual Law Reform Committee, but Oh, no, tell me about that, Hugh. Oh, Lordy. Um, well, the Dorian Society, uh, in Wellington formed a Homosexual Law Reform Committee, which became the Wolfenden Committee, which became the Homosexual Law Reform Society. And so, this murder, um, it really was the, uh, the, the, the, um, the snowball, the beginning of the snowball, that became Homosexual Law Reform. But, in 1967, No, I can't be sure of the year, but my mother was a foundation member of the Christchurch Homosexual Law Reform Society, and at the, uh, inaugural meeting, somebody rhetorically said, well, who here would get up and say, I'm a homosexual? And one person got up and said, I would. And we don't know the name of that hero. But my mother reported this to me as, and some fool got up and said, I am. But she was a liberal, and the Homosexual Oral Form Society was very respectable and liberal. And it had bishops and lawyers. And, um, Uh, and they had a very limited aim to decriminalize homosexuality. There was, um, no, um, thought of gay liberation, or equality, let alone marriage. When was the moment you, you realised that it was the day that you were going through the park, through Hagley Park, was also the day that, that Alan had been murdered? Oh, that was immediate. I mean, you know, um, that afternoon or very soon after, maybe the next day in the Christchurch press, a man had been murdered in Hackney Park. So, yes, I was never in any doubt that that was what had stopped me. Yeah. But, but, I was deeply closeted to myself back then, and I didn't identify with Alan. I mean, the homophobia was in the air we breathed. It, it, it was all pervasive. It was part of the general, um, narrow minded, conformist society of the 60s, and especially in Christchurch. So then at what point did you start kind of relating to Alan's story? Like, like, suddenly? Oh, much later. Much later. I mean, um, that, well that's my story anyway. I mean, and um, Today is Abba Hart's day. It's Alan Abba Hart's day, which, we've had a wonderful time, uh, in as much as, well, I say wonderful. Um, it has been enlightening and enriching and heartwarming to hear what a good person Alan Abba Hart was. That's part of the, the thing that he was, and how, how, he was actually a bit special. You've, you've got the complete story of his, you know, his talents. But, you know, he, uh, there was no good reason for him to be a victim. Um, and, you know, this has, this has been a very special time, yes. To see the gay community and the Abahat family, and, and, and the, uh, Tangata Whenua come together for this. I gather there was a tapu lifting at dawn before we, before we arrived. But, you know, as is the way. And, um, uh, I, I do hope, I was only hoping that there, there should be a memorial here. But, um, I gather that there's going to be, there is a, found, an Abahat Foundation. And, uh, this is, uh, going to do serious work on, um, uh, abolishing homophobia. And, I mean, as Kelly said, um, you know, it, it hasn't stopped. Kelly narrowly escaped being another child. Alan Aberhart. I think, um, the acknowledgement today of what's happened 60 years ago and all the work and all the work that's been done by so many people to get things where they are today and have the involvement of all the politicians and all the legal legislation I think it's it's been a quite a powerful moving day. I'm very proud to be part of it. Can you tell me what the feeling was like at the memorial? Well, I had tears in my eyes a couple of times. I thought it was really terrific, really respectful. Um, and it was really, it was really quite beautiful actually, quite touching. Yes, I have to agree. It was very moving. They had the rain, and then, um, Like someone said, ethereal. Yes, it was quite lovely. And then the sun came out and the sun was, it was shining on the lectern because I remember there was concern, oh, they'll be blinded on the lectern, but somebody else said, no, no, the sun will be high enough, they'll be able to see. And I think they could see at the lectern. So how has, um, Alan impacted on your lives? Well, I could. He has impacted on my life, there's no two ways about it. It's a wee bit of a story, but, but not much of one I suppose, but I was, we could do the math, but I think I was about 15 at the time, and I remember that, uh, this happened. And you know, I went to a single sex boarding school. I generally, no one ever talked about it, but this case was a very big case. And, uh, I remember being very upset when I learned that these six, uh, young men had been found not guilty of anything. And that this guy had simply died. And that was it. There was no one going to pay any price for it at all. Very angry about that, and, uh, very upset about that, but the thing I remember, uh, was that he didn't feel, one, being me, didn't feel comfortable talking about it, either in the family, or out and about. It was a deeply shunned subject, really. That was my impression at the time, and I also remember that I thought, Oh, I have to get those guys some time, the typical teenage thought, you know what I mean? Really, but it's true, I actually, I'm just telling the truth, that's what I sort of thought. But of course, one doesn't go around doing that sort of thing. But for me personally, having this event 60 years later is, it's like a, you know, we say full circle. But it is kind of like, that I feel really, wow, it's not too strong a word. I feel quite proud to have been a very small part of it. So when you were growing up you were in Canterbury? Yes, yes, that's right, yeah. Yeah, right, right here in Canterbury, yeah. So what do you think, um, Alan's legacy will be? I think that is now just developing. Um, way beyond what an ordinary man, as the press described this morning, uh, way beyond what he could have conceived of. So I think his legacy will be quite, excuse me, quite good, really. Because they're talking about, um, a fund in his name to support, you know, good, um, queer causes and things like that. And hopefully there'll be a memorial. Maybe with a plaque, people will be able to contemplate, maybe not with a plaque, but, but something anyway. And, um, so I think his legacy is actually from here going to get bigger. Uh, he does have the fact that the other part of his legacy being that he was sort of pre the gay rights movement. His story is part of creating the, the milieu, if you like, where slowly society was making room for gay rights to come along and say, hey, we want our rights. That's quite important. So his story would have moved a lot of people at the time. Well it moved me when I was a 15 year old kid, and I wasn't gay and didn't think I was gay while I was hidden from myself. So it would have moved a lot of people, and then just a few years later, Gay Liberation's happening, Stonewall, over in America, and then starting here in early 1970. So, he kicked it off in a way. Um, if you know what I mean. He didn't personally do any of that, but his story created Uh, a readiness, helped to create a readiness in society for change, I think. Yeah. Kia ora, I'm Lily McFarlane, um, Program Manager at the Rural Foundation. Um, we've just been in Hagley Park, Otatahi Christchurch. Uh, remembering the life of Charles Alan Aberhart, who Um, was murdered here 60 years ago to the day, um, and what's widely, uh, accepted as a gay hate crime. So we've just been coming together with community, remembering him, um, hearing stories about him, um, and sort of, yeah, looking forward to the future as well. Why was it important for the foundation to be a part of this? Yeah, well, the Rural Foundation, um, is This was created in honour of Peter Rule, um, he was a decorated, um, Air Force officer in the Royal New Zealand Air Force, um, but unfortunately was pressured to, um, leave the Air Force when it was discovered that he was gay, um, as you can imagine that was pretty devastating, um, for him and his life and, um, Yeah, he, he retrained and became a art administrator and actually built a massive Korean ceramics collection, um, which unfortunately he, um, he took his life the year after the homosexual law reform, um, left his estate to be sold off and for, um, that money to be, um, given for the benefit of our queer community. And so, um, That estate, essentially, was entrusted to us and what became the Royal Foundation. And so we saw a lot of parallels between the experience that, um, Peter had and the experience that Alan had and it, you know, it was just a very natural thing for us to be involved in, um, especially being so connected into our communities, um, in Aotearoa and, um, yeah, and in some ways we were kind of honouring Peter by honouring Alan and, um, Yeah, it was a easy decision to be here. There's also that other connection of the Rural Foundation being the administrator of the expungement legacy fund, yeah? Yeah, so we are sort of Other pool of money, um, after the apology for, um, yeah, incarceration for homosexuality, um, the government did a big apology and the community said, well, as part of that apology, we would love for there to be a fund. And the government originally was going to administer that, um, though essentially the community sort of spoke up and sort of thought, no, there's this foundation. You know, we have a relationship with them, that sort of thing, we'd love for you to endow them with the money instead. So, um, we were endowed with one million dollars at first, from the government, for us to hold in perpetuity. Um, and then a while later, a top up of, um, 800k. That money is essentially the Rainbow Wellbeing Legacy Fund, um, the criteria for which is just to support the, the mental health and wellbeing of our rainbow communities. Um, and we're a few years down the track now. We've been able to grow that money quite significantly. We were able to give away 500k in our last round. So from that 180, or was it a million to start with, but we give away those dividends. So, um, yeah, it's just grown and it's grown. And as I said today, um, another fund is being, um, administered and that will kind of just keep growing that pool that is available nationally to our communities, yeah. Can you give me just some examples of where that funding goes? Oh yeah, it's a real range, um, because we're all about balancing history and legacy, like we've seen today, and how important that is with, you know, our rangatahi and their Very new needs, um, um, in community. So, we tend to support a real range, a lot of art, a lot of queer art, because we know that that's, you know, art has always been a massive part of, um, queer liberation. And, and so we, we tend to put a lot of putia towards that, which is often underfunded by other areas. Um, You know, we also support, more locally, we're, because we're here in Christchurch now, um, we support Mana Tipa Mana Ora, which is essentially Takatāpui Rangatahi, um, really, to just create safe spaces, because so many of our communities in New Zealand are still in a place where, um, That's what they need, just places to come together and talk and, and be in community. Um, whereas some of the other things we support are more project based. We work with Auckland Pride, um, to deliver Pride events. Um, yeah, a real range. We're always open to whatever people want to come to us with, to be fair. Um, we help. Publishers who are publishing queer history, documentaries. Yeah, a real fun range actually, yeah. Bringing it back to today's memorial event, what was that like organising and kind of putting it together? It was actually the thing that has really stuck with me. So I'm usually based in Te Whanganui a Tara, but I grew up in Timaru, which is just south of here. Yeah, so I'm a small town girl, and it's been a real reminder. I know Christchurch is not necessarily a small town, but Sort of a small city, and it's got that same interconnectedness that I remember having when I lived in a small town, and the thing that stuck with me is, you know, Nicole came to us, and that's where it all started. Um, but from then on, the more people we connected with, we just started to realize everyone knew each other, everyone was willing to chip in and help out, and this is one of the easiest things I've ever been involved in. Um, and so I've just been struck by, yeah, just the enthusiasm and the willingness and just how much no one had to really take on a burden. Everyone just did their little part. Um, we used our skills, pulled our contacts and the invites got to where they needed to go. And we had a, you know, a diverse, robust group of people here today, which was just really lovely. Can you describe the feeling of the event? It was just, I think it was just. And, um, it just felt profound to me. I think I've been so caught up in the organizing and that sort of thing that maybe I, you know, hadn't been thinking about quite the significance, especially, um, the journey the families had to go on to get here and to, um, start their healing journey, um, and to physically be in the place, um, or close to the place that it happened. I think, I think people felt that. And I think people. It's also felt, um, how far we still have to go and, and hopefully, like I did, felt re energized to do that, um, especially being able to look around at the support we had and, and the support of our public figures as well I think was really important, um, from the beginning we thought it was essential that the council support this event and especially the mayor, um, to just really send a message to the community that they are supported, um, at all levels. Um, and that we're committed to this not being a full stop, you know, we're going to carry on. This is just the start of what is in store for this community, um, in terms of queer liberation, so yeah. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1960s ; 1970s ; 2020s ; ABBA ; Andrew Kibblewhite ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Auckland ; Auckland Pride Festival ; Blenheim ; Blenheim Musical Theatre ; Canterbury ; Christchurch ; Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Act 2018 ; Denis Aberhart ; Dorian Society ; Events ; Gavin Young ; Grant Robertson ; Grindr ; Hagley Park ; Hagley Park North ; Homosexual Law Reform ; Homosexual Law Reform Society ; Hugh Young ; John Wooles ; Kelly Hopkins ; Lianne Dalziel ; Lily McFarlane ; Loren Aberhart ; Maree Richards ; Member of Parliament ; Ministry of Justice ; Motueka ; Nicole Skews-Poole ; Oranga Tamariki - Ministry for Children ; People ; Peter Rule ; Queer liberation ; Rainbow Wellbeing Legacy Fund ; Royal New Zealand Air Force ; Rule Foundation ; St John Ambulance of New Zealand ; Stuff ; The Christchurch Foundation ; The Closet ; The Press (Christchurch) ; Timaru ; Wellington ; Whanganui ; Youth ; acting ; actions ; activities ; advocate ; agenda ; anger ; apology ; artist ; arts ; assault ; blessing ; blood ; boarding school ; bullying ; change ; closet ; closeted ; colour ; coming out ; community ; convictions ; council ; courts ; crime ; criminal history ; criminal record ; criminalisation ; death ; discrimination ; emotional ; environment ; equality ; expungement ; face ; family ; feelings ; fun ; funding ; future ; gay ; gay liberation movement ; gay rights movement ; government ; growing up ; hate ; hate crime ; healing ; health ; history ; holidays ; homophobia ; homophobic violence ; homosexual ; honour ; hope ; imprisonment ; indecent assault ; injustice ; journey ; jury trial ; justice ; kindness ; kinship ; knowledge ; law ; legacy ; legislation ; letter ; liberation ; loss ; love ; magic ; mana ; mana whenua ; marriage ; mayor ; media ; memorial ; mental health ; miscarriage ; movement ; murder ; opportunity ; organisation ; organising ; other ; parents ; peace ; performance ; pervert ; piano ; police ; police records ; pool ; positive change ; prejudice ; pride ; prison ; publishing ; queer ; queer bashing ; rainbow ; rangatahi ; reading ; records ; research ; rhetoric ; rural ; sad ; school ; sex ; silence ; small town ; social ; social media ; solidarity ; spaces ; straight ; struggle ; suicide ; support ; tangata whenua ; tapu ; tapu lifting ; tease ; teenage ; theatre ; time ; top ; trauma ; truth ; unions ; victim ; victimisation ; wellbeing ; whenua ; whānau ; wish ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/charles_allan_aberhart_memorial_interviews.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1107386. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.