The title of this recording is "Kiran and flatmates - Beyond Rainbows". It is described as: Kiran and flatmates talk about their safe house for queer trans* disabled youth and yell or die activism. It was recorded in Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 18th July 2015. Emilie Rākete, along with other unidentified speakers, is being interviewed by Wai Ho. Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 30 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Kiran and flatmates talk about their safe house for queer trans* disabled youth and "yell or die" activism. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: The interviewees describe their living situation as a safe house for largely disabled, trans, and queer individuals, revealing a real demand for safe accommodation within the community. They highlight the struggle to find flatmates and housing in Auckland, which is exacerbated by the city's housing crisis. Stereotypes and discrimination compound their difficulties, as visibly queer individuals face challenges in accessing accommodation due to widespread prejudices. The safe house is also depicted as a space for recovery and survival, where the residents navigate mental health issues, including PTSD, in the support of one another. The occupants participate in activities such as drinking games, though these are characterized as possibly an unconscious coping mechanism for navigating their traumas within an ostensibly safe environment. Discussed at length is the notion that mainstream gay rights activism falls short of addressing the intricate challenges faced by this marginalized group. Issues such as safe housing, mental health, and the need for queer, trans, and disabled voices to be reflected accurately and adequately in activism and social support systems are underscored. The discussion criticizes the mainstream LGBT movement for its focus on achieving marriage equality, to the detriment of broader concerns like housing crises and intersectional discrimination. The interviewees emphasize that the completion of marriage equality does not equate to a total resolution of the struggles faced by all queer individuals, particularly for trans youth and people of color who continue to face violent aggression and homelessness. They express disdain for the commodification of gay rights, exemplified by the financial emphasis on marriage rather than the harsh realities of marginalized queer lives. They express their disillusionment with activist groups and describe their safe house as a hub for individuals who need respite and inclusivity, often taking in people who have nowhere else to go. The safe house operates under significant capacity stresses, sometimes accommodating as many as twelve people. There is an aspiration to expand and acquire a second house to relieve the pressure and continue providing a safe space. The occupants also mention challenges in establishing supportive connections with broader groups and organizations due to perceived judgements and lack of trust. Activism, they state, is a necessity rather than a choice; described as "yell or die" activism, due to its urgency and the reality that without advocacy, their needs would go unnoticed and unmet. The interviewees conclude with a call to those with the means to provide support and to others who sympathize with their plight to join them in solidarity. The recorded discussion serves as an important insight into the intersectional experiences of queer, trans, and disabled individuals who live daily through the complexity of marginalization, often feeling invisible even within their broader community. Despite the struggles, the interviewees embody a resilience that is both formidable and inspiring, determined to advocate for genuine change and awareness. The full transcription of the recording begins: I'm here in, um, flat with flatmates. Um, tell us a bit about your flat. Um, well, we're a little flat in Avondale. I tend to refer to it publicly as a safe house, because that's what I set up for it to be. And, um, myself and my partner rent out the house to a bunch of other largely disabled, largely trans queer people. And, um, sometimes we are full to capacity. So some of us actually looking at us somehow obtaining a second house on the street so that we can, you know, put up more people because there's a real need for safe accommodation for people like us. What are some of the issues around safe accommodation that people are needing be part of the housing crisis in Auckland right now? Um, so that's massive. I mean, like, queer and trans. Um, youth already have, like, a really, really hard time finding safe housing, Right? And, um, when you've got a housing crisis, that just amplifies that issue, like, you know, tenfold. Essentially, um, it's very, very difficult to find flatmates that you will, um, be safe with. It's very difficult to find a house to begin with. So when 100 people turn up for a flat viewing, they're not going to pick the ragtag quiz. Exactly. The four of us were flat hunting for a significant amount of time, and it was difficult enough finding people who were remotely willing to accept people who are students. And even though not all of us are students, at least one of us was working. People were still like, No, you're too young or you're students. And if I showed up for flat viewings alone as a visibly queer Brown person, they literally would not trust that I had the authority to speak on behalf of my potential flatmates if I showed up with one of the others. Well, you know, also really visibly queer looking. They just be like, OK, no, this is going to be a house of DeGeneres. We can't rent to you. And as a result, several of us were, you know, like, didn't have a place to live for a very long time. So what else does your flat get up to, apart from safe housing? Is there, you know, activities? Oh, yeah. So we're looking at something on the wall with a variety of the flats mean drinking game rules? Oh God, So safe housing and drinking. Well, it's, you know, like that's that's part of it, I guess. Like part of safe housing stuff is that so many of us, um, have you know, PTSD or other trauma stuff going on? And I'm not going to say that drink drinking games are specifically a trauma coping mechanism. But also, I'm going to say that they kind of are and, um in general, like safe spaces, even for even spaces that are explicitly meant to be safe for queer and trans. People don't often accommodate survivors particularly well, especially not people who are. You know, most of us are autistic or have some other sort of sensory shit going on or some sort of anxiety shit. And like, am I supposed to be swearing this much? And I think it's OK and and it's really difficult to find, um, you know, even straight white allies who are comfortable with that sort of stuff because it's like, Man, you guys are weird enough with your, you know, like same sex relationships. I can't even be him. I don't know what that means. So you've all touched on some things that sounds like it's not really covered by, um, you know, for want of a better term mainstream gay rights, um, activism or campaigning or whatever. Some of that being housing issues, um, safer, safer spaces and safer housing for, uh, and trans young people as well as like, um, mental health stuff and survivor stuff. Is there? Um, yeah, What do you want? I mean, it's kind of obvious why it's not covered, But what are some, you know, reasons or tensions about mainstream gay rights stuff, not covering all this work. And they don't care. Yeah, that that's really it. Like I mean, they've got theirs. Why do they bother? Bother with people like us, like I mean primarily, like any sort of movement towards acceptance towards inclusion is about saying, Hey, we want to be equal to our oppressor. We want to have that power too. And they have that power. They have that power of queers like us. They have that power in the sense that you know, they can still very much ex exclude us from spaces which are have stepped up, in which you know they are equal to each other. It's like congrats. You know, you have the right to form nuclear families recognised by the state as marriage. Um, like, if you fit into that model and if you have enough money to pay for a wedding And if you have, you know, like, how many of us are ever going to Yeah, at some point, like everything gets simplified like all of the stuff gets simplified to capital And that includes, like cultural, capital, social capital, like financial resources, everything. And if you're like, like your only access of oppression is that you're you're gay or whatever. Um, it's like you're going to side with capital. You're going to do whatever you can and part of having that means screwing over the people below you. That's how it works because you benefit from so much of it. Like I think, part of the reason why white gay men tend to be so outraged by being mistreated and by homophobic violence and stuff like that, because by all rights, they should have access to what white straight men do. By all rights, they should be able to, you know, trade over women and trade over other minorities, but they But, you know, on some, some A you know. Hey, they're actually getting bullied, right? And Oh, my God. Oh, my God, that's unacceptable. Why don't we have everything that we should have coming to us and nothing else matters? Because, you know, you still have that power. You still get to call other people, you know, politically correct. You get to call people like social justice warriors. Because, you know, I'm just a regular old gay who lives in Ponsonby and, you know, like all I want to do is into landscaping competitions and, you know, go walk all seven dogs with my husband and be perfectly respectful and palatable to all the other heterosexuals in Ponsonby. Yeah. So would you say that the There's definitely some tensions with how I don't know, for one of the big the stuff that isn't covered by mainstream gay media. Um, and then how that is represented when it is covered by mainstream media or they stand to lose things from covering it so they don't read them. If they talk about us because we're not happy stories, like I mean, it's really the pie parade. Um, earlier than I expected to get to this. Oh, yeah, for context of our flat is basically full of activists. But that's mostly because, you know, if we don't, if we stop yelling about our lives literally, no one will give us anything we can survive on. Yeah, it's yellow dye and tell us to shut up. How has that been received? Has anybody picked up on that, or has it just been largely ignored? Or, um, it's been picked up in the most curious of ways And that, like, for example, I got interviewed for an American like Rainbow website and, like nobody in New Zealand actually wants to talk to me except for, like, the media, who wants to, like, criticise us as much as they possibly can? And like, I mean, Jen literally just got mentioned in my family first, So yeah, yeah, he does. He want to do a little background on what's just happened with family first, Um, so, um, stats NZ just released the new standard for noting gender identity, which has some problems, and that it lists like anything that isn't like male or sis female and like in other section, um, So I wrote a post about that and family first have just wrote like something, an article saying that it's a really confusing standard, and it should just be set to like objective reality, which is male and female, and that even people like me, like gender activists, are never going to be happy with it because we're criticising it as well. I want to be a gender activist. It sounds like a fun thing. Yeah, and it's like they like, it's not that hard to get it right. Um, but they don't really stand anything to gain. It's It's seen as a waste of resources to accommodate trans people like and it's sad, like we're literally in the LGBT. Um, like we're in the most famous acronym for it and we're still not like it's still seen as like, a bonus. If we're even, like, treated even slightly, correct, like this is seen like having an the section is seen as a step forward, right? Yeah, and I mean we had, like there was a long, long public discussion like SNZ attempted to engage us, and there were a lot of us putting time and effort into that, and we were getting yelled over by people who are like Excuse me. OK, No one my age has heard the word cisgender like I'm sorry, but we're all just straight. We're straight like 20 people, and only one of them knew what it was. And another one looked it up in the dictionary and said it meant being on the side of a mountain, a forum about gender identity. It's like, OK, you obviously know Jack all right. And you think your opinion matters. And in fact you feel entitled to your opinion mattering as much as if not more than, us because you represent the majority and the people who might be confused by the census matter more than the people who are absolutely outright being, you know, thrown on the side of the road. The thing that annoys me is that they have, like, 12 pages of explanation of what all the words mean and what to tick for, what, at the start of the census, so confusion isn't a valid reason for not including it. What would you say? Some of the I don't know, the impacts of, um I guess essentially being, you know, tacked on in the end or marginalised within a wider LGBT movement. You know, how does that impact like materially or and reality kind of thing? I mean, basically, as far as like the like, mainstream gay movement is concerned right now. If we're not like pile driving our way towards marriage equality, then it's not worth it. The whole thing with the States with all of the money, like as soon as marriage equality, like went through in the Supreme Court, all of the money is starting to dry up from all of the queer organisations, and no one's going to be able to use that for trans things or anything else. Like we've got marriage. Like what Now, like obviously the gays are equal, you know, there's no there's no homeless trans youth. There's no, you know, like queer people of colour being assaulted on the streets, you know, like equality Rainbow kicked off and not to mention like even what marriage means to different people as well. Like marriage isn't necessarily an accessible institution for a lot of people, right? It's it's marriage is for those like people who already have access to capital who already have access to power essentially for white, middle class gays and everybody else just gets trampled or tossed to the side. Yeah, it's not like marriage is not really a coherent thing for anyone in this house like, but your your marriage is not going to be very like it's not going to be. Which is the average for a wedding, apparently, which, you know, Holy shit. I have never had, like, holy shit, like I'm the person who pays the rent and like mostly, you know, like sorts out expenses and stuff. And I cover any shortfalls anyone else has. And I don't know. I don't know what I would do with $36,000. That's that's a lot of money. That's a surgery that you have to wait 40 years to get. Yeah. Oh, my God. And you know, Jen's been fundraising and shit. But like, you know, like there are people out there who can just blow all of that and be like, you know, II. I want my dream wedding and I'm going to have it. And how is that? How is that reality? Anything to do with us? It's like, you know, the only thing stopping me from having my wedding, you know, is not the $36,000 is the fact that, you know, the state hasn't made it legal for me to throw. To have an excuse to throw this massive party where I get to wear white. I just want to say, like, like, for context. Um, my benefit just went up from 1 40 to 2 15 per week, and I got very, very, very, very excited. So that's the difference that you're looking at here. Yeah. And it's still just barely enough to keep me alive and fed. I reckon if some white ran like a Kickstarter for their wedding, they'd get money so much further than any Trans woman would and like that should be a bad indicator of not a good one, which is how they take it. People, people want to hear a happy story. That's the love wins. Um, narrative. I mean, like, it's it's lazy. It's, you know, we want to tell people it gets better, because if we tell them you know, I'm sorry the system is fucked in against you, then we actually have to change things. We actually have to make something that's not empty promises for our youth. And that's all we've all any of us have ever gotten is empty promises. You know, we're sitting here and we've been like we've been multi, multiply marginalised, and no one is accommodating any of our needs. And, um, the only people we have is each other, and we've been so fucked up by society and by the different ways we've been treated that we're all we can't even trust each other properly. And we're terrified of each other. And we all we have, you know, and and you can't give us and it gets better story. We're not going to believe that and be. And because we are willing to take part in this happy feel good making, you know, because we're not going to smile and walk in the parade and be like, Hey, you know what? Life is good for me because Auckland has a parade because rainbows are allowed because I'm wearing this, you know, Rainbow patch on my jacket. And it means that people slap me on the back and congratulated me instead of yelling slurs at me in the street. A guy spat on me after the after the parade in 2014. I was sitting on the side of the road and he stared at me and a whole bunch. And in this parade, people yell at us Even when we do walk in the parade and we say, Hey, you know, maybe I'll try to celebrate with you for this one goddamn day and maybe you'll have my back for one other goddamn day this year when I ask you to feed me and they don't Yeah, that, um, a lot of the time, like the best way that we like Like, because we do get a lot of donors and stuff like like food and money on occasion. And we're very grateful, but, um, like a lot of the time we like, we sell it. We sell it by, like, framing it around like, hey, help these queer kids Look, marriage, equality just got up. I. I raised the most money I've ever raised on this flat life. I got us groceries for a month by saying, Hey, marriage, equality just passed to celebrate. You can help us get food, and it's like none of us. None of us actually give a shit about marriage equality. Oh, my God, if anything, and we we want to stop hearing about it because all these, like people who think they're good allies who have literally yelled slur slurs at us or refused to support us or mis gendered us suddenly have rainbow philtres on their Facebook profile pictures. And you know what? Um, I've got impact of connections down here as a note, but I can't remember what happened when you're living the life where you have to, like, scream and yell for every little bit that you can get your relationship with. Like the people in the community obviously is going to like to deteriorate to the point where you can't really feel like you can go to those organisations for help. Like when, like the people who are like in them and running them. The people you have, like, fought with online over like issues of like your rights and your safety. Then you can't feel like the community is a safe space like a safe space for you, right? Yeah, because I mean, like, our friend Amy has talked about this repeatedly and like the fact that you know, she's been constantly going on and on about how you know there is massive, massive injustice in the prison industrial system, especially for trans women of colour. And no one has listened to her. No one cares and like, What are we supposed to do? No one wants to hear our stories because they are unfair. And also, quite frankly, they can't be bothered. It's not happening to anyone who remotely they can remotely relate to. So why does it matter? You know, we look funny. We act funny, we talk funny, our priorities are different. And because most of us are really fucking autistic, you know, like we literally don't we aren't human. Basically, we can't. We can't connect with them. We don't have this emotional capacity to engage with the world because we are so mistreated that, you know, we kind of have to shut down to keep ourselves safe. I mean, even the the pattern of Christians ignored, like three different Official Information Act requests about like the state of, like, trans prisoners and how many they were and like where they were. And they just like, ignored them because they know that there's not gonna be big. There's no big like media uprising or like backlash. No one it's not gonna get. It's not gonna be a big public story. It's just, like maybe a footnote on, like, Gaz or something. But definitely not, like one or three or anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean like we were at, um Well, I and some of the others here were at an event hosted at the university, talking about like Maori and Pacifica queer stories and a representative of one of the major gay media organisations was there and just said, You know, I don't get it, if you like to me again, you know, I don't get it, if you all are. If you all are, um, you know, so, lacking in resources like I was, um, you know, I was talking to the dude at the time because he was just asking why why don't we reach out? Why don't we ask for help? And I was saying, you know, we do, We do. And there is nothing set up to help us because no one knows that we exist. And when they know we exist, they don't really want to help us. And he Yeah, And he went I don't get it like I mean, surely you know, the mainstream gay community will be willing to help you, like just because, like other things, aren't set up already. Why don't you just apply for the Gay Men's health Network? And it's like, because Because, like like, the answer is because I'm not a gay man. I'm not a gay man. OK, men, Are we supposed to pretend to be something we're not? Are we supposed to pretend to be something that we've been coercively like in the case of Trans Women, you know? And I'm not speaking as a We here like to be clear. I'm not a trans woman, but, like, are we supposed to be pretend to be things we're not in order to get help like it's that to consider reasonable, like we need to be things that we want to get housing. And I think it's also like like it's very important, like most like, even the things that are set up to help us, Um, don't really acknowledge like any reality, except that we are trans like off this house, like everyone here has, like like everyone except one in this house is autistic. Um, there's like PTSD. There's like we we're very like, mentally ill. Um, it it's very It's a really, really, really big part of being Trans is just like trauma make. It gets mentally ill. And that's because of the way that the mainstream is treating us. It's like, you know, like we can't like, you know, maybe they're born this way. We R it doesn't work for those of us who are made this way, by the way, you fucking treated us and we can't get back who we are. And like, um, we it's makes it even harder to ask for help because we're too weird. We act too weird. Um, we need too much space to ourselves. We like we're not emotive enough in our speaking, we can't speak formally. We don't understand how to control our tone. We ask for help, but we sound like we don't deserve it goes down to Yeah, we're not respectable enough. We need to Yeah, we're too much. We take up too much space if we even try a little bit of space. Um, yeah, there's the deserving poor. And there's the undeserving poor and unfortunately weird queer Trans kids. Yeah, so you've named like a, I guess a multitude of essentially structural and social oppressions and intersections, and you live on the kind of intersections of a whole whole bunch of things. What are some of the ways in which you I don't know, I guess resist or survive. Like, what are the things you some of you don't personally or collectively? I mean, this house definitely sounds like it's an important part of that. Yeah. I mean, I've said this before, but really, all we have is each other a lot of the time and like and that's that's really true to like a really, really big extent and a very scary extent, because it's like even if we find other people who share the same things we do, you know who are disabled in the same way we are who are queer and trans in the same way we are like we don't know if they're in with people who aren't who are who benefit from power and who might you know who whose involvement with the people we know might lead to ramifications for us. The queer community is complex as hell, and too many people, you know, aren't aware that you know they they're hanging out with little rapists or they out with people who are white supremacists or, you know, and like, it's like I can't go to most queer events, even ones that are, you know, explicitly trans focussed or explicitly, you know, meant for, you know, literally Asian queers or whatever without, without running into someone who has abused one of my friends. There's, um, like, even in a big ass like city like Auckland, Um, like, it's very, very hard. Like, um, everyone knows everyone in the queer community you're one or two degrees, like even if even here, like all of us, are one or two degrees of separation from abusers and rapists. And yeah, like, so we we end up seeming really, really insular because we can only trust, like, maybe eight people in this community. Yeah, And would you say that, um, the space that you've created here is I don't know, I guess like a hub so that other people can find each other. Yeah, absolutely. Like, we have people who travel through who are from other parts of the country and in December from other countries. Um who come through and stop and stay with us for a little bit And, like, you know, check in, like, have a little breathing space here. We have people who know me on Tumblr where I run and used to run much more actively, A blog for gender questioning. Teenagers like And, um, you know, people who are like, Hey, you know, I live in Auckland too. I really need a space where I'm not going to get mis gendered. Can I come hang for a day? Can I come sleep over tonight? Hi. You know, I don't I don't know where I'm going to sleep tonight. Can I come sleep at your place? And it's like, Sure, we have a spare bed, which in our room you can come sleep with us. There are people living in bedrooms here, and most nights there's at least seven people here, if not like, I think I think our record was 12. Yeah. Yeah, like sometimes we have 12 people here. It's a four bedroom house with one toilet. And like, doesn't work like we we have We have a fun time literally trying to get anything done. The shower doesn't work like half the stove doesn't work. But like we get by, we get by. And like, we have to get by because, like, you know what? What can we do but help other people out? It's like, OK, look, um, there are currently eight people in the house. Someone else doesn't have somewhere to sleep tonight. Of course they can sleep on our floor. Yeah. And like and Ali said already like, it's really important to note that, um, you know, we're all like, we all need a lot of space to ourselves, But we all do what we can when other people need space. Because, you know, we only have what we have and something is better than nothing. And sometimes we have to make compromises. Hopefully, we can fix that with the second house, though. Yeah, Yeah, me and, um, me and my partner here, um do you want Are you OK with being named? Ok, um, yeah, we sleep, um, like we sleep in the lounge together. Um, we don't have a room because it's a four bedroom house and keys with their partner and, um, like so and I'm fine with that. But like having a second house because I'm very autistic and often get very overstimulated because this is a common constantly tracking through the space where you sleep. Um, and having a second house means, like, we not only can help more people, Um, like we better equipped to help people because, like, um, basically all of us are heavily involved with, um, activism or some sort of reaching out to support. You know, some states that we all have different. We play different roles, we have different interests. We reach out to different groups. But we aren't going to be able to do that if we are constantly burnt out from, you know, trying to look after ourselves. But sometimes that's the best we can manage. What are some of the relationships like with the other groups and other people that you've reached out with? It depends on what other groups. A lot of a lot a lot of people tend to regard us with a sort of wariness, like they they don't trust us. They think we've got something up our sleeves. They think we've got something planned that is, some sort of, you know, hostile take over or something that's bigger than just, you know, surviving. I think because like they don't believe or understand about, like, the whole all of the struggle, they think that you just have all of this time on your hands to, like, do all this bad shit when in reality you're just trying to live and like, they're like, What are they doing with all of that time? Why do they need all that time to, like, cook and clean? Yeah, we were like we're all disabled in some way. And, like, even like doing the dishes or, like vacuuming like will take up an entire day, if only because like it, like it takes up all our energy. And then all we can do from then on is the rest. Like a lot of our time is spent not doing anything because that's all we can do. And I mean, as activists like that makes us, you know, between juggling, you know, the literal per task of staying alive and juggling what everyone else expects of us in terms of, you know, just literally just keeping ourselves alive. We have to do all this activism, and then people want to talk to us. The media wants to contact us, and we have to deal with all this press fallout and all this public fallout from people talking about us and people trying to talk to us when we barely have enough energy to talk to each other to make sure we have milk in the fucking house. So what it sounds like? Well, obviously, you know, there's a whole bunch of negative crap surrounding, um, lots of different aspects of your identities, you know, around mental health and around, Um, just just a whole bunch of stuff, Really. What are some of the ways you know? How have you personally, um, worked through all that crap? Essentially, you know, is good because like, it's the it's the mainstream gay show. So, like we can watch it and see what these people are really like and laugh at them. Yeah, it's like, Hey, you know, this is all really familiar to us, but it has no ramifications on us because none of these people are going to jump out of the screen and actually, you know, beat us up. Yeah, it's we've made a habit of just like semi semi, ironically watching like glee and other like bad shows and just like like, relating to them really hard, while also like like understanding and like making fun of all this shit because these shows are really, really racist. A lot of the time, like the only safe way to relate to the mainstream gay thing, is like through the V laughing at them. Yeah, and it's not even like good laughter. It's anxious laughter. It's Oh my God, these relationships are so unhealthy and remind me of relationships I've been in in the past when I thought I was this or whatever, you know? Jesus Christ. Oh, my God, this is so painful to watch. It's so real. Yeah, And the thing is, it's meant to be playful laughs. It's meant to be genuinely warm. Yeah, it's our lives. This is literally our lives, you know, like, um, like people look at it and go, Oh, my God. There's, like, drama every single episode and, like new people are trying to destroy this group of people every single episode. It's like, Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like a lot of like, this is more of just like people not believing that we exist or that we struggle as much like like reviews and stuff. This is the thing, like any kind of music or or TV shows or anything about trans people. Queer people, um, like, will always be like it's not relatable like no one actually has this many struggles like And yes, yes, we do like, yeah, the the sister who reviewed transgender dysphoria blues and said, Oh, this album is not relatable. It wasn't written for you. Oh my God, it's not punk, because it's not relatable. My, um when I was still living at home, Um, my dad, my dad stopped watching orange is the new black because he found it unrealistic because he thought, there's no way prisons can be this bad. And by all, by all accounts, prisons are so much worse. Much worse. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, one of our friends, um, had a relative share of Facebook meme about, like how we should we should totally have, um, old people put in prisons and prisoners put in in senior care centres because prisons totally look after people way better than senior care centres. And I'm like, you have to be in prison, abortion and also you are totally white, middle class and, like you have never thought about a prison for a day in your life other than as taxpayer money being wasted not just being wasted but like being wasted on what they see is like a luxury for prisoners like hot showers and, like power and food accommodation. If you put your grandma in a shitty place like let's be real, it's your fault. Yeah, and it's like, you know, we want, like, like, really like whites Just need to shut the fuck up about blaming us for their problems because, honestly, like if you if you if you can't be bothered, if you're so individualist and capitalist that you can't be bothered looking after your grandparents or like you don't have the facility to look after your grandparents or whatever the hell like that's and existing structures don't do that without kind of exploiting you or or your or your relatives. That's not on the people who are going to jail. How is it on the people who are going to jail? How is it on the people who, you know have different sort of family ethos in you or whatever the hell like, if it was really that much better, old people would just commit crimes and go to jail like old people aren't dumb. They'd go to jail if it was better. Yeah. I mean, like, it's very yellow, you know? Like, why not just fucking go to jail? If we all go to jail, then they will overflow, and they'll have to get rid of jail. This is how we build a prison industrial complex. This is this is the big thing that we've been planning with all the spare time. Yeah. We're just all gonna go to jail just to wrap up. Are there any kind of last things that you want to say? Like, um, who to whoever is potentially listening or to other people who might be struggling and surviving in the same way that you all are. If you have money, give us it. If you don't come hang out with us, that's pretty much it. That's pretty much it. That's yeah, that's pretty much it. You know, like you're not alone. You're not alone. And the world is more shit and more terrifying than you have possibly imagined. Even if you're already depressed, I promise you, but you're not alone, and I'm not going to tell you that it gets better, but you'll find some way something will happen. You'll run into a bunch of ragtag queers like we are, and we will terrify people at the bus stop waiting for the bus and it doesn't get better. But you find other people for whom it also does not get better. And you get to be miserable all together more than nothing, don't having found it all, I sounded enthusiastic. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. 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The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/beyond_rainbows_kiran_and_flatmates.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand. For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089666. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.