The title of this recording is "Benji Watt - boxing". It is described as: Benji talks about being the first openly gay boxing judge in New Zealand and his upcoming marriage. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 9th May 2015. Benji Watt is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 27 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Benji talks about being the first openly gay boxing judge in New Zealand and his upcoming marriage. The content in the recording covers the decades 1920s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: This podcast features an interview with Benji Watt, a trailblazer in New Zealand's boxing world. At just 22, Watt is not only the youngest boxing judge in the world but also the first openly gay one in New Zealand. The discussion, hosted by Gareth Watkins, delves into Watt's engagement with the sport of boxing – a passion that began with watching David Tua's match and evolved into a calling, ultimately leading to a career as a judge in the sport. Watt shares insight into the connection between the boxing and LGBTQ+ communities, specifically dispelling the notion that they are mutually exclusive. Despite the sport being historically male-dominated and associated with aggression and masculinity, Watt has found acceptance within the boxing community, noting that their professional skills are what truly matter. Reflections on the theatrical elements often portrayed in professional boxing are also discussed, emphasizing that many boxers adopt larger-than-life personas to create a spectacle, a stark contrast to their personal interactions outside the ring. Throughout the conversation, Watt details the intricacies of judging a boxing match, describing their methodical approach to assessing aggression, defensive tactics, and punch outputs. Their judgments are guided by strict criteria, as well as intuition, honed from years of watching and evaluating the sport. This process has earned Watt recognition for their exceptional talent in making accurate calls at a young age. The discussion also touches on the shifting landscape of boxing, with Watt advocating for more visibility and respect for women in the sport. Watt also notes the age gap in the judging community, with most being significantly older, and expresses desire for more inclusivity and engagement from the younger generations. Watt's personal life interlaces with their professional experiences as they discuss their upcoming marriage. Challenging traditional perceptions, Watt is set to marry a transgender partner and speaks candidly about the significance of marriage equality, as well as the challenges faced by the transgender community in New Zealand regarding access to surgeries and recognition. The podcast covers Watt's dreams for boxing, including potential high-profile matches, and their ambitions to elevate their judging career internationally. They express hope to be involved in events such as the Out Games, contributing to a broader conversation about LGBTQ+ representation and participation in sports. Finally, the podcast concludes with a glimpse into Watt's wedding preparations, highlighting their expertise in planning and excitement for this personal milestone. The full transcription of the recording begins:  My name is Benji or Benjamin Watt. Um, I'm 22 years old, turning 23 in June. Also getting married in June as well. Um, I am a boxing judge, the youngest one in the world and the first gay one in New Zealand. I'm also the, um I'm also the second person to be, uh, the box R dot com editor for box. Uh uh, for New Zealand. And I'm at the moment, I'm the only one for New Zealand, so Yeah. So what drew you to boxing? Um, I've always liked box boxing. I just never really spoke about it because it was more of a like a personal interest. And, Well, every time I mention boxing, people think it's like, Oh, it's aggressive and very masculine and stuff like that. And, like, a lot of the gay community are, like, quite shunned upon stuff like that. Like against sports and stuff like that. Apart from like the beer community, they're very into it. And, like, um, I got really hooked into it When, um, that first, Not the first time when I first watched my first boxing fight with David to Lewis. Ever since then, like It was kind of like I was an interest, but it wasn't like a passion. And when I saw Shane Cameron versus David tour, that's when I got hooked. And ever since then, um, I've been, um, quite passionate about it and like seeing all the shows and pay per views and stuff like that. So what? What hooked you? I don't know. It's just like one of those things that just created a spark out of nowhere and just like no pun intended slap you in the face. It was like, Wow, I don't know, like, this is really good And like going to these events is like, quite thrilling and like, you get very excited quite easily and stuff like that. So yeah, and so are you boxing yourself? No, no, no, no, I can't. I can't box I. I I've I've played with the idea in my head about it, but I just thought to myself like No, like last year, I had, like, two concussions from, like falling off the deck at my house and and like being in cars and and that probably that put me off for eight months last year. So and if I had any more concussions, I'd probably be get brain damage. So this the idea of me boxing in the ring is not I played with the idea, but not anymore. And you were saying that, um, boxing and the kind of gay community aren't necessarily seen as kind of closely aligned or the gay community kind of shun it in some way. How is it actually within the boxing community towards, um, say Rainbow people? Well, um, boxing is a very male orientated, masculine, lots of testosterone type sport. You don't really The idea of it is just like they don't clash with each other. They don't cross paths. But, um, every single boxing person that I've met and who know that I'm gay, we're like, Yeah, don't care. I do a good job. That's what it counts. So they don't really have a problem with it. And which is good, because, like in 2015, everyone's quite open minded and stuff like that. I mean, like, there's the There's the occasional like tweet tweet because I'm on Twitter a lot, and I kind of have to be with, um, my position. Um, I'm on Twitter, a lot getting in contact with other boxes and stuff like that. And there's the occasional fans that get quite rowdy. You could say, But um, apart from that, there's not not really much of a problem. So, like in other sports at the moment, so like in cricket, where there is kind of or in rugby league, where there's kind of sledging and kind of homophobic remarks either by players or fans, I mean, do you find that in in boxing? Um, not as far as I'm aware of. There's probably like there's probably, like, some talk, like in the ring or maybe at the press conference. But I don't think they actually mean it. Like majority of the boxes I I've met, I've met personally so far. They were quite nice people. They're quite genuinely nice people. But, um, as soon as you put a camera in their face or something like that or microphone or whatnot, then the the theatrics come out and so is the um So is the, um being at the press conferences and stuff like that? So what they say they don't really mean they're just saying it and trying to create a reaction and stuff like that. OK, so it's kind of these larger than life persona type things. Yeah, like a classic example is the brown butter bean. Um, he's he's, uh, he You see him like with a lot of videos on Facebook, YouTube and whatnot, And he he, um he's quite an asshole, but I've met him a couple of times, and he's like the nicest guy you could ever met. And like a lot of people hate him. Um, as well, so But, yeah, he's quite a nice guy. So So the idea of kind of, um, theatrics and persona, that's all a part of professional boxing? Yeah, yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot of people say there. There's boxing is broke up into many sorts of ways. There's the boxing in the ring. There's the theatrics before and after, and there's the dodgy professional side, but but that I'm not really, um, involved with. So we're going to talk about a wee bit about how you came into judging. But I'm just wanting to follow that line of thought like when you're ringside and you are judging, What are you looking for? And like I mean, if if If somebody throws a punch that you think, Oh, that's just that's dodgy. I mean, can you mark people down on that? Um, well, there's the what we're supposed to do. There's the three rules that we're supposed to abide by its aggression. So that could be from, like, this guy doing a punching flurry or always stepping forward and stuff like that. There's a defensive fighters that, um kind of like Floyd Mayweather, which a lot of people think. Oh, he's a runner and stuff like that. He's a counterpuncher. Counterpuncher always looks for those opportunities and just keeps on moving his head all around. Um, and he can get marked up, get good marks for that. And then there's like, um uh, the amount of punches, output and stuff like that. Those those are like the General key three. Also like, there's a lot of other things that me, personally, I always go for my gut feeling if I don't know, because there there has been situations where I was like, Oh, crap, this is being really close round and I don't I have a strong rule that I don't do 10 10 rounds, which is like the maximum a boxer per round can get. I don't mind 99 rounds when there's a point deducted or there's been double knocked down or something like that, but I don't I don't like 10, 10 rounds. It's my personal rule never to do that. So, um, I always go for a gut feeling. If I can't call it, then I feel this boxer has done probably just a slightly better than the other boxer or something like that. So, yeah, that's how I kind of judge a boxing ring. Yeah. So how do you learn to judge? Um Well, how I go into it is, um, actually through box. And, um, as you know, the box is the what they call the Bible of boxing that has all each and every, um all the boxes details all the pro boxers details and, um, their rankings, the actually very fair rankings as well. Um, and yeah, I'm the editor of that. I'm the New Zealand editor, which is was ridiculously hard to get in as become the editor. But I'm happy being the editor, and I get a lot of respect for that. And my name goes everywhere from it and I got my contacts through, um, box to, uh, have a chat with, uh, Pat Leonard. Who's the? I think he's the president. I'm not entirely sure, but, um, he's definitely the Auckland representative of the NZ. PB A. And how they do things is they get you to do a shadow fight with Shadow Judge, which is you can come and watch an event for, um What, um, judge your own, like, do your little own score cards that will be unofficial. And he marks you off with, um, all the other judges and how he personally feels. And you have to do that three times. And if you do well, which is a lot of people don't, um, Then you become a judge. Uh, Pat looked and said that I've got extraordinary talented calling, um, at making right calls, and he hasn't actually seen that with anyone before, especially with my age. So yeah, and so, yeah, um, as for like, learning, um, that's how the training goes and see if you can do well and then he'll probably have a one on one chat with you if you don't do well. But I really just, um I've been watching boxing since I was eight because that was the day of tour first Lex Lewis fight. I just got hooked into it since then, and I learned from that, and I kind of, you know, picked it up a few things. So it was natural instinct. So kind of natural instinct and kind of gut reaction to what's happening in front of you. Yeah. Um, yeah, that that that's really how I got into it. But, um, the problem with, uh judges, like these days are ageing judges. Um, majority of them are 50 60 70 even 80 year olds. They're doing the judge. So when you're looking at, um, potential new judges what? What? What are the skills that are needed to be a judge? Um, you need to be very focused and have a good eye. And like we've got, you have to be quite disciplined as well because like you go to these events and they're extraordinary events and stuff like that, you're not allowed to drink alcohol. It's like, Yeah, it's my big role. It's even the president's big rule. Don't drink, don't do any drugs. Obviously, um, while you're calling because that could affect you. Like for for example, I watch the Mayweather First Pac hour fight. And I was, um it was my day off. I was watching, and I wasn't. I did my own little scoring, but I was having a good time while scoring and giving my opinion and stuff like that. After watching the fight, I thought, Oh, Pacquiao should have won. But then after the next day, I rewatched it and they like, Hm, Maybe it's a little bit of a draw. But there was such such a close fight, I just needed to watch it again. And, um, Mayweather came up by one round. In my opinion, that idea of of watching something, um, a second time and getting a second chance to judge it. Have you, um, done judging where you thought that, you know, the next day? Oh, actually, I made the wrong decision. Never had that from a live event. Um, of course, Mayweather was through TV. So you can't. It's It's very different because from watching it live, you can see things that the cameras can't see. Uh, the cameras might go from different angles to different angles, but it's nothing like what you can actually see right right there. And you can actually probably feel almost feel the punches of how hard they're doing by this, how loud it is and stuff like that. And that that is actually a big key to, um, judging as well, because, like, you need to feel it like, well, not feel it. But you need to actually feel the moment and stuff like that. So what is that, like being on ringside and and being in front of a fight? Well, there's been a couple of moments where I wish I had an umbrella because, um, actually, um, I tell you about this event a couple of weeks ago, um, these two women were going really at it, and one of them had a like, a really blood nose. And there was every punch. There's like this blood went everywhere, and well, I just wish I had. It was all across my table, and I had my laptop with me for box, and I had to keep on making the Dodgers for my laptop, so I didn't have blood all over it, so yeah, but, um, I love being at ringside as a big thrilling thing. Yeah. Have you ever been the target of, um, you know the audience reacting badly to a judgement? Not yet, but this is very confident for me to say this, but I've never made a bad judgement when I was at a live event, even when, um, from a split decision, I've only had one, split decision that went the other way. I still think that my call was the right call compared to the other calls. However, that doesn't make their call less valid. It's just I feel Michael was the right one. Are boxers allowed to interact with the judges? Oh, yeah, But there's no bribes, obviously, but, um, everyone knows everyone. It's a very It's kind of like the gay community. In a way, everyone knows everyone, and, you know, it's weird by everyone like everyone has at least met everyone once, so yeah, So are there many gay people in boxing in New Zealand? Not as far as I'm aware of. As far I haven't actually met one yet. As far as I'm aware of in the boxing community, I'm the first gay one. I could be wrong. I could be the first gay one at the current at this generation. But, um, as far as I'm aware of, I haven't met a gay boxer. Is that something you would like to see? More of more more gay people in boxing? No, I don't know. I really put a thought to it, but, um, it would be quite interesting to having a gay boxer. It reminds me of this movie, actually, um, called the beautiful boxer, which is, uh, which is a transgender MTF, which is not actually boxing. It's actually I think it's moai or kickboxing. Oh, it's and, um, it's Thai boxing. Tai kick boxing, one of the 21 of the 34. And it was about a transgender MTF doing and had makeup on and everything. And great movies. Yeah, but yeah, I never even thought about it. Are you aware of, um, boxing being held in, say, like, the out games or I mean, is it is it part of those kind of larger rainbow competitions? I would be, I don't know is is it the out games? I'm not sure it would be good to have that out games because, um, that way it's like if if the out games come back to New Zealand, Um, I could actually be a part of it because I've always wanted to be a part of the out games. And, of course, the out game, Um, each and every, um, boxing from pro to corporate to amateur. They have to go through our sanctioning body. Well, one of the two sanctioning bodies, which I encourage the level of advertisement here. I encourage the out games committee if they ever come to back to New Zealand, use the NZ PB A as your sanctioning body for boxing. But, um, yeah, I would like to be a part of the out games for, uh, as a judge for boxing and stuff like that. So, yeah, uh, you you mentioned right at the start that you're the youngest boxing judge in the world and also New Zealand's first gay boxing judge. Do you want to be seen as either of those two things If you know, in terms of people putting labels on you, is that is that something that you want to be seen as? Well, at the moment, it's quite exciting having those labels, I think, um, at the moment like when you're doing something new, it's good to have labels. It's like Wow, Really? Thanks. Of course, these labels won't last for long. Or maybe the first gay one that they will last forever. But the youngest one currently. That won't last for long because there's always gonna be someone coming across coming along to be younger. But, um, I don't know, label so exciting sometimes, in my opinion, what would be your dream fight? Well, I've had, like, the idea of, like, David Tour versus Mike Tyson. That's one good one. Um, I had a list of I actually did have a list, but, um, that was like the one that stick to me. Also, like one day when Joseph Parker gets much bigger, um, he would I want him to fight Klitschko. KLIA doesn't retire, but he would be a good match for Klis. Um, I can't say Floyd faces Pacquiao any anymore because that's just happened. And not a lot of people got disappointed from that because they wanted something more exciting. But, you know, it's one defensive fighter for his aggressive fighter. That was been to happen. Um, for any other dream fights a lot of people say Mike Tyson is, um um Muhammad Ali. Of course, it will never happen because big generation gap, but, um, yeah, I think that's about, um, my main dream fight. So, of course, um, Joseph Parker, Carlie Mehan, Um, gay Meehan David Tour when they were both in their primes. Not now, because they're old, which is harsh to say, but true. I think that's about it. Do you kind of think it's like a bit of a like a drug, Like a bit of an addiction in terms of the, you know, the prestige and the and the kind of the glamour? Well, it's fame. In a way. It's another form of fame and stuff like that. So if me, personally, I wouldn't like to get hit in the face multiple times, like once every three months or something like that. But, you know, it's just to the end. They probably it is a drug to them, and they it's a profession, their career. So, yeah, they probably enjoy it. And yeah, it is their addiction. And in terms of judging, I mean, is that a professional thing that you're doing? Or is it I mean, are you getting paid for it? I am getting paid for it. But that's, um I'm still at the lower end of my career, so I'm not getting a lot. So at the moment it's at hobby stage. But I, I kind of have myself a five year plan like I, I Of course, I'll start here in New Zealand, and after getting 30 pro fights on my belt, I would to eventually make my way to Australia and get myself a judging licence there. And then, um, probably go from there to the UK. Get my judge judging licence with the British, um, British Boxing Commission. I think it's called. And then eventually maybe if maybe get a judging licence in, um, the States, one of the States, because, like each state has their own law and what not most likely probably in New York, because that it's either New York, Las Vegas, Nevada or California. But yeah, but, um, I guess my dream job after all, that will probably be like a, um, supervisor for, like, the WB a or something like that, and you're down in Wellington this weekend to judge the WIB a women's super banter weight championship, which I'm here to see. Actually, a New Zealander is actually part of that. But um she's if she wins, she will be the second woman from New Zealand to win a world title. And I think it's the third New Zealand born world champion because the first one was in the 19 twenties. The second one was 2006, which it was the first woman also the first woman to be world champion with the IBF, which is actually not a lot of people know that, but it's actually a massive deal. Is there any difference between a male and a female fight? Yes, there is a big difference. The women fights are very, um, underrated. They they don't get a lot of media and stuff like that. And I think if I had a goal in boxing is to make more women fights and make it more prestigious and make people want to see women fighting like I gave the idea to like the Super Eight that they should be a Super Eight women's tournament and they said that they would think about if there was a demand for it. But of course that means No. So, yeah, And also like this. Um, another idea was, um my other idea of trying to if there was another aim is probably bring, like, amateur boxing back into high schools because you don't see that anymore. And it's a shame, really, because boxing is a more of a, um, when you're at that age in high school, it's about discipline and and stuff like that. So, yeah, and in terms of judging, when it comes to either a male fight or a female fight is, are you seeing it in exactly the same way? Or are there differences? Oh, no. I see it exactly the same way. Um, the box website, um, they see it differently, though. The, um, the women's they get. Since there's not a lot of women's boxes compared to the male boxes, it's easier to rank higher to get rankings quite quite quickly in the women's boxing. Um, but you can see things changing, like there's more women fights that I'm trying to like, put my door and my foot in the door saying, Hey, put more woman fights, get them more credibility and stuff like that. You know, um, it's slightly changing because there's women fights happening. And if there are women fights like happening, becoming more equality with women fights, it's probably gonna eventually be other stuff. Like, um, maybe there will be ga boxing like the out games and stuff like that. So, yeah, you can see a slight change happening. And it it's always going to be such a male dominant, very masculine testosterone type sport. But you can see that there's there will be a slight change, but it's interesting from what you've been saying. It doesn't sound like it's necessarily kind of exclusionary. You're not. The people in the sport aren't excluding other people. It's more that people aren't kind of coming to the sport. Yeah, it's personal interests, like you probably say it's a hobby, and people make making something from this hobby. But yeah, ultimately, it's just an interest. And if people get into it, they get into it. You mentioned right at the very start that you're also getting married in the next little while. Um, can you tell me about that? Are you happy to talk about that? Yes. Um, I'm getting married to someone who's actually transgender, which a lot of people like, confused with that, Um, because, like, they see me as a gay male getting married to someone who's transgender, that's female to male. And people are like, right, you're It's like, No, I I'm I'm gay. I'm heavily gay. And I announce myself as gay. I just don't mind the body parts, you know, like I am attracted to males. I don't care about their, um, their sex parts or anything like that. So yeah, but, um, yeah, getting married on the 19th of June. Just trying to remember, I I've already finished planning everything, So I'm quite excited about that. And why is marriage important? Uh, why is marriage important? I don't know. This makes it's kind of like a new milestone for myself. And like with the whole gay marriage and stuff like that, it was a lot of there's. I've spoken to a lot of people gay people, straight people and stuff like that. A lot of people don't like the idea of marriage just in general, because I think it's just a piece of paper. Um, even gay people think this. What's the point of gang gay marriage? Because, like, there's other important things to talk about and stuff like that, and I My reaction to them is like, Oh, gay marriage is a step to those important things. If you don't think gay marriage is important, then take gay marriage is the next step to take that step to important things. Um, I think like to my personal opinion, gay marriage is not a problem for me anymore. Like we've got it now. So I think it's important that we had it. But now we've got it. I think the next important thing is to, uh, looking into the whole transgender stuff like it's ridiculously hard to get, um, transgender surgery here, especially funded by the the Public Health Board. Um, because, um, the health insurance in New Zealand sees, um, transgender surgery as cosmetic, which I'm like, Hey, so, um, which I feel like it's kind of like a slap in the face to them. In fact, um, I know this from my partner, um, in California. Um, they passed this law earlier this year late last year Where, um, medical insurance, health insurance. They cannot, um, discriminate against the transgender community when it comes to surgeries from top surgery, bomb surgery, all the surgeries and hormone treatment and psychology and stuff like that. And I'm thinking, if California, which is land of United States who some people think they're not the land of the free, which they claim they are, um can do it, then why can't we do that? It's quite a I think it's a good idea that we could probably pass that on to the government or something like that. So, yeah, and the choice between having a civil union and a marriage was that ever kind of talked about? No, it's always being marriage. It wasn't even a question. Um, mainly because civil unions in New Zealand isn't recognised internationally. Marriages are recognised internationally. Civil unions aren't recognised internationally. So if for some reason that my partner got in hospital and overseas, I brought civil unions like, Ah, they'll be like, No, I they'll be like You can only be family if you want to meet your, um see your partner or something like that And I was like, I got a civil union saying, I'm the husband and they'll be like, No, civil union is not recognised in this country. Can you tell me a wee bit about, um, how the wedding is going to go. We're very nontraditional. It's quite a boring wedding. We're just doing it in the registry office, which is actually how my brother did it for his straight wedding. Um, he did it in a registry office. In fact, I was the biggest laugh ever. He did it in shorts and a T shirt, and I've been pushing for myself to be done in shorts and a T shirt, And every time I suggested it, I'd get told off. So I was like, Damn Oh, yeah. How have you found the planning? Has it been quite stressful, or has it been really enjoyable? It's quite natural for me. I'm I'm good at planning stuff for me. I have OCCOCCO CD about time and punctuality. So when you put that towards planning, it comes, um, planning comes quite natural to me. And, of course, I. I hit a few barriers, but I just click to Oh, let's do this Instead, it's quite easy. It's actually quite cheaper as well. So never really a problem when it comes to events, planning and wedding planning and stuff like that. Well, congratulations. Uh, I hope I hope the day goes really well and, um, yeah, it's really fantastic news. Thanks very much. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1920s ; 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Asia Pacific Outgames (2011) ; Australia ; Benji Watt ; Bible ; BoxRec ; California ; David ; David Tua ; Events ; Islam ; Job ; Joseph Parker ; MtF ; New Zealand Professional Boxing Association ; Pat Leonard ; People ; Shane Cameron ; Stuff ; Wellington ; Women's International Boxing Association ; addiction ; aggression ; alcohol ; audience ; barriers ; blood ; board ; boxes ; boxing ; career ; change ; choice ; civil unions ; community ; concussion ; conference ; cricket ; cycling ; difference ; dream ; drugs ; equality ; face ; facebook. com ; family ; gay ; glamour ; government ; hate ; health ; health insurance ; hit ; homophobia ; homophobic bullying ; hope ; hospital ; insurance ; justice ; labels ; law ; love ; makeup ; marriage ; marriage equality ; masculine ; masculinity ; media ; movies ; news ; other ; passion ; persona ; plan ; psychology ; public health ; rainbow ; rugby ; running ; scene ; school ; sexuality ; shame ; shorts ; slap ; social media ; sport ; straight ; surgery ; testosterone (T) ; time ; top ; top surgery ; training ; transgender ; twitter. com ; unions ; website ; wedding ; women ; youtube. com. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/benji_watt_boxing.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089655. Benji Watt also features audibly in the following recordings: "Benji Watt - Q12". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.