The title of this recording is "Aunty Wai Mason profile". It was recorded in Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 31st January 2011. Aunty Wai Mason is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 1 hour and 1 minute. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Aunty Wai talks about being a kaumatua for the NZ AIDS Foundation. The content in the recording covers the 1980s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: In an insightful interview titled "Aunty Wai Mason profile," recorded on January 31, 2011, Aunty Wai Mason shares their extensive experience and contributions to the community, particularly regarding their work with the New Zealand AIDS Foundation. The recording, captured in Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand, is an hour and a minute long and was conducted by Gareth Watkins. Aunty Wai, a kaumatua for the NZ AIDS Foundation, delves into a rich history that spans various educational and community service roles. They discuss their upbringing, education, and the progression of a career that saw them working as an educator in various school levels, and as an advocate within the justice system. A significant switch in their career path occurred when colleagues at Auckland University of Technology faced harassment in 1989; using resilience and intellect, Aunty Wai intervened to facilitate a shift in attitudes and promote dignity and respect regardless of individual differences. The interview highlights Aunty Wai's strategic approach to making changes within institutions and communities, emphasizing the importance of collective effort over individualism. They recall working in the prison system, teaching Maori individuals, and advocating for those affected by discrimination due to their sexuality or life choices. Aunty Wai adopts a philosophy of mutual respect and understanding grounded in the idea that everyone is part of a larger human family. The conversation also details Aunty Wai's involvement with the LGBTQ+ community, particularly in the context of HIV/AIDS. They describe the empathetic and educational roles they played in supporting individuals returning to New Zealand to spend their final days among their people. Aunty Wai's work included providing cultural and spiritual guidance to families and individuals impacted by the virus. Aunty Wai’s philosophy underscores the importance of teaching respect, patience, and problem-solving, while always placing human connections at the heart of their endeavors. They reflect on the positive changes that have occurred over time, with greater knowledge leading to greater acceptance and development among people and communities. Their current role with the New Zealand AIDS Foundation continues to build on their life’s work. They concentrate on advancing the well-being of Maori individuals, advocating for partnerships that honor traditions, and offering support wherever needed. In summary, Aunty Wai Mason's life story reveals a deep commitment to education, justice, and community support, particularly for those affected by HIV/AIDS and discrimination. Their enduring impact is characterized by heartfelt advocacy, strategic insights, and a profound belief in the collective power of humanity to inspire respect and positive change. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Uh, uh, uh um uh um in the years, um, that I held here in in this on this earth I was born into, um, a tribe of, uh, and in the morning of Tauranga and Judy and went to Bethlehem native school and went to college and girls college and then came to to because there was no, um, teachers, training, college or university. And I was pursuing education with early child care. And, um, later on, um, worked in primary school and intermediate and secondary school and became a secondary school When, um, my two Children were born and we lived with my husband in the wild west of Auckland. And, um, it was there that, uh I also worked with the, um, community law service with working with the justice system and being a worker for, um our young people who are at risk. And also, uh, Nick, um, Nick Brown, who was the, uh, judge for the Henderson Court. And he asked and required that I become his court report writer and then worked with those, um inmates as well by being the first educator within the maximum security and medium security prison teaching the Maori inmates and those who were incarcerated but majority and specifically Maori. And then and um 1989. I won the profession after, uh, education in prison at the university, uh, Auckland University of Technology. And it was there. And, um, 1989 and 1990 Where, uh, my colleague and all the, um um we've been harassed literally by the big boys club who were both management level and who ran the university. So there's a type of grief that was going on there, and I thought, Well, I can't work with who agree there. I needed to intervene. And my intervention was to say, Change your attitude towards what's happening. Do not fight the fight. But what you've got to do is build up a resistance and be resilient. And to prove to the colleagues that have been disrespectful to you and and your manner, um, then uphold yourself and and be proud of who you are. And I would act as your in intervention person to intervene and to also, um, go straight to Doctor um, Hench Cliff at the time who was the head of the university and because he was a Christian person who had served in the community and, uh, um looked at the injustices of humanity throughout and always preached it or even used it within his lecturing or his deliveries. And I thought, he's a good man that will be able to, um, help us to sustain the dignity and the manner in each human person, regardless of their sexuality or their indifference towards the life that they But they are intellectual people within the system of education. And that's what we must look at the gifts that they have so slowly. The changes came about, and it was in 1991. I said, Let's get together As a farmer, you can't work is in isolation. If you were to ask me what is the greatest gift in this world, I have to tell you, it is people. If people, if people it's not a person, it's people. So therefore we have to change the attitude of and work as a collective group to reinforce and to, um, have people here. What do you have to say? Because we we're not listening. We're just talking past each other. What? What kind of hardships were they encountering? They they were under the Treaty of Waitangi. And they were teaching that treaty because all of the the the gay women had gone to classes to learn about the Treaty of Waitangi. Because the partnership is is and also, um, the crown And who are the crown? It's the people who at the time signed the treaty, so they had learnt it. And they were trying to, um, bring back the, um, injustices and the qualities that needed to be looked at. And it was being overridden by those people who were men and mainly, um, who belonged to the Big Boys Club. And, well, you can you know the rest. And so to change that attitude, we had to change the structure of what our thoughts were and mine was always to be taught by my nanny to You're more powerful if you work for everybody, has their and their and we don't cross paths. But we get together and work out strategically how we're going to do it, who will do it and then when we're going to do it and monitor it shows we have an outcome. And that was all of my teachings from my nanny and I implemented that same structure because they were the things that I come with. That was my knowledge, both my So I worked with that and then it should work. They began to see changes. So once we got the group together with the staff or the staff with what doesn't matter what nationality or what Ethnic group or culture, you belong to the main. Although we are, it doesn't matter who the person is. It is. We still come under the I'll be, um but I bet proverbial phone. So we held on to that. I find it really interesting. It's an interesting idea that you change your own ideas and your own mindset first, to to overcome a problem that may not be yours, but it's human problem. So it must be mine because we are first and foremost born into a family of the humankind and we make a connection. We have a which means we are born into the and we have a relationship because of that new fact that we are human. So who am I to, um, to do nothing else but to get on with it and time so short that you know, the strategic planning for me, and I learned that from my nanny is that if you see that something is incorrect, you correct it. But you use your skills to collectively get together, talk face to face, not on pen and paper and all these wonderful technology things or other ways of communicating, Um, and to communicate any person to person and you speak what's in your gut For a woman, it's what's in the inner inner depth of her womb. Because of you, if you're in this to a child, you're the only one that feels the pain, the last push when the or the dog say push, you know that pain and it's a wonderful pain, but it can be overcome and with a male or then the same sort of things. Um, because we complement each other, and that's the other thing we have to change. Males have a job to do. Women have a job to do, and they complement each other. How did they compliment? Because that's why God created the mouth fish. And he knew the male was very lonely. So he created the and within the mouth it the sperm that creates life and in the female. It's the egg, and you have that with all living things that God created. So what's the difference? There ain't no difference. How does fit into that and fit to it? Because they are a farmer of the humankind. My to every human person is my relationship because we have two eyes, two ears, our body, our soul. We have all the elements that a bear and we have all the the things that make us tick. And it's a fight, and the only thing that's different is the culture that you infiltrate it with when you're brought up as a person as a partner. So all I ask people to do is just respect. Have respect, the word respect what me when you respect yourself. You would like to be treated the way you want to be respected by other simple and are just a label. But she said, Well, you fit into this label. I said, Listen, that person is my I have a relationship with him because first and foremost he was born into the humankind. So I don't see anything outside of the philosophy and a very deep philosophical way that I've been taught by my nanny, so there's no discrimination. Discrimination comes with me with people who have phobia, phobic ideas and torch because of the way they've been taught. But I can still unravel all those in a few moments time and say, Auntie, why do you wear the red ribbon? And I physically I I to turn and say, Well, I think it's the first in the world that humans wore and it's a ribbon of hope. It's hope for you. It's hope for me because we're humans And they said, Well, what does it indicate? And I said, What is the indication? The foundation with those people who have contracted the HIV virus AIDS and it's hope that they would live in the earlier days as early as when I first started in 1990 91 and onwards, when I worked with and had the privilege to meet all those of our Maori men. I speak mainly of Maori because they were the community I worked with. I actually um was pretty to them, letting me into their world. They had come home to die. They had contracted the HIV virus. They had been sexually involved with males of other land. And these men that came back had sexual, um, men that had contracted the virus in Australia and in the other countries that had come. But mainly the ones we work with are the ones who Australia, because the Maori knows when the body is deteriorating and they always from home. The is to always come home to the to your place, where you stand your feet and where your are and those who have gone before you to come back and to die and be buried amongst your own people. That is the so when they came back and I learned I began to learn and to learn means that I needed to educate myself that what this is all about because I didn't look at what they were. I just looked at. They were farmer, they come home and they come into my care with time. I did something about them. So what I did was actually started with which is a prayer and Maori, because in their brain Maori, the language that they had learned and then doesn't matter that they've forgotten about it. But the brain is like a computer. When you call back and recall, then comes forward. Then you you can guarantee So, Um, once I did that and I worked with the with the families and the partners, especially because the partners of culture of other culture but the was and it was to talk to them and say The first thing we will do is to get together, have and to express and explain first how, how the evening or how the day would go. And so everyone's on the same page rowing the same waka at the same beat and the same time. And to me, that's part of the knowledge that I've been given from my nanny to express to people quite clearly what you're going to do and how you're going to do it and why you're going to do it. If there are any questions, that's the time to ask. But at the same time, we ask that everybody, um, have respect for the process that we're going to go through. And, um, there was no no Christian, no crime, no nothing. And they accepted it because what I was trying to do is to feed the which has been washed. The waiter in the in the depth of the the two waters that run the spiritual water that creates all humankind and the water that brings us out as a mother. There is the water, and she's ready to give birth to her child. The water and the string allows humankind to come to the They have two men in water men in two waters, and it's a simple explanation my name had taught. Taught me everything is so simple that, um, it's other people's way of thinking and thought, and it complicates things. And I'm not one to complicate no one because I cannot like and, um, if if people are not sure about it, then we have another go. But repetitious teaching is how I begin to do perform everything that I do. And, um uh, the idea also was to ask to the, um, people who had the virus at the time. Where would they like their body to lie? And and they need to come straight here, Do your farm know that you have contracted the virus? No, they say, Do you want them to know? And so that was the process to go through and whatever. Whatever answer they had. Then they had this negative thought because it's fear and then managed to turn it around and say, That's here It's good to be fearful. I is the word in Maori. When you have it's that to be quite feel, it's just to caution you as a human being, to just be a little bit careful how you and how you move forward. And that's important. So we have we have man. Man is the power, as you know that we all have. We're born with it and then the that we have. We're all born with that. But the is a very important part as well. The then begins to react once the body that is dead declared dead and can't function at all. Then the rises from the dead and have another job to do and another space to go to. Um once I explained to everybody that they said, Oh, Auntie, we want more so continuously, Um, I played a virtue. And if if they got they didn't know because of the pain that they were going through, then I'd say, Look, your pain is in your mind. Every pain and every human being is created by the mind. So you have to keep your mind to say How much pain do you want to take? If you have pain, you will get pain. If you say you want to die, you will die. Then your body will deteriorate and all your organs in your body will stop functioning. Is that what you want? Oh, hell no. I said, Well, she up, man or bloody shit. And I should be a bankrupt because to me, I just words that are not mine. But if it's effective, then I will use them. There are only adjectives to describe a situation as far as I'm concerned. Um, but there's a car. And then and then when the time comes and then I say you have to plan your for The whole family needs to get together and support you and say, OK, I will do that. Uh, what do you want? Do you have to have her music and have wonderful music? And I don't care what sort of music you have. It's your time. It's your farewell. I said you think about it and you come up with some ideas. And I agree that your next week to do it. So the shorter time you give to people that she now in pain and they know they are in that, um, situation, it can lead to be a relationship. But to me, it's not. The mind is still there. I think your mind and your intellect is the most wonderful gift God given. Because he gave it to us last because of his creation. Why didn't he give it to all the other things that he created? He gave it to us because he wanted to be creating humans like his own image So we can have a thought. So we can then begin to plan. We can begin to do things. And we had choices because he made the choice to go where you are, where you are now. But you can get out of it because you had the mind to do it. And I'm grateful to my nanny because she taught me how to use the power of mind because, um, yeah, just a little example. I was born a heart patient, and, uh um Then when I was stressful, um, then she just calm me down and speak to me, and then I teach me how to use my mind to say, Take your mind to a safe place A nice, warm place, a nice place that you want to be And it was always on top of my mother's grave because she died early and I used to fall asleep and cry there and then and I could feel going right through the inner depth to the bones of my whole system and so I to take myself there. So I created that to no, for all the men who had the virus and people, even now, who are sick. And I have to create that for yourself and have a wonderful time with it. Go away with the the It's wonderful. Could you tell me about Ian Kahi? Yeah. Um I is, uh, of background, And, um, his mother is from up the very far north, and, uh, and she, uh, he came to Auckland, Uh, after attending college to, um, train as a primary school teacher. And when he came at the time, um, the training college used to be in the North Shore North shore. Um, and he met my sister Catherine, and they trained together and then at the same time there's two years training, Uh, towards the second year, they had to close the, um, North Shore campus down and send all the students to the Auckland Teacher training College in. And, um, who worked with my sister because, um, she was teaching at several schools and they met up together again at the intermediate, which is in and there. He became a student teacher under her guardianship because she was a year ahead of him, and they became very good friends. And, uh, they used to come to our home because my husband and I and my two Children had, uh, built a home in And, uh, they used to come and because my sister needed help as well with, um, work with she brought in along. And that's how we push me. And, uh, we found out that his is the same as my Children. Father, uh, the family are from, um, South as and and Ian's father is from there as well. So there was a of a connection. And because he is older than my two Children, um, we just address each other as, um as an uncle and and my daughter and my son, his niece and nephew. So, um, that that started after, uh, many years of teaching. I decided that, um he wanted to look further a field for, uh, another vocation. And, um, he spotted the advertisement for a Maori worker, uh, with the foundation. And at this time he applied for this job. And, uh um, because I've been a helping them and him and my sister. Then he addressed me as auntie and, um, of course, I I My job was to just to go and support him with his application and, um, going through and talking a little bit about what the job description was and being the first Maori, um to represent and the whole of New Zealand at that time. The main objective of that position was to help, um, and to go out and educate people in the Maria. So the that was the whole idea. They done it. Maori focused, held on the marae throughout the mocha. So was this the first time that this job do you know what year that was in 91? At the same time I was at the track A and, uh, 91 was the year that he applied for the position and he won it. And I went to support him in his, um, interview, uh, with Warren. Um oh, I can't remember Warren's name now. And he who Who was the head of the AIDS Foundation? Yes, that's right. That's Warren. And then, um, I went along once. He, um, got the decision. I also went along to support him with his, um uh, the initiation and the training that he went through. Because if I was to support him, uh, my feeling was I need to know what the profession, how and what help I could give. And, um, anyhow, that's just me. I just support anybody, want to make a commitment, And, uh, yeah, so we had our orientation and that I was part of that. And in the way of speaking, I think, um, the first reaction was one of culture shock for the organisation, especially those people on the panel and, um, training as well. And But I didn't worry, Warren, because it was more important back then, you know, he had put out the position with other and one from input. When you say culture shock, can you give some examples of what the culture shock is. Quite, um, a specific one. Because for too long the organisation had run just with, um uh as I call it, middle class people. And, um when I, uh um then I needed to know because I've done a whole lot of work with bicultural and the treaty of and those issues around it. And I was quite clear that Article two is to say that we need to um, no, uh, the of ownership of and running things our way. And, uh although we had partners and it hadn't been done before with the Indonesian Aid fund and other organisations as well, um, that is a culture shock. I talk about that Everybody hadn't the mindset to really think out quite clearly what should that things should partnership work under because they had no modelling to be there to the organisation. So it was thanks to Warren who he saw the vision. He put it out there and became very much a part of, um, supporting I and the work that, uh was ahead of them and those are the sort of things Also, it's just trial and error and uh, um And then with the input from, uh, for myself and others because I relied on my own resources in the community. Um, and because I have a good knowledge of who is in which is and had worked with out in the West Auckland and and knew most of the because of my, um, background and and working with the, um, as an educator, uh, in secondary school and green high school, where II I worked in was still very much involved with the community work. So, um uh, so we put forward, you know, a few things that could happen. And like I say, um, what worked, worked? What didn't work still had to be worked out Because you need time and timing. Three years is not enough this year. You're just knowing the community and getting what your strategic plans would be out there. So but because of the, um, newness of the profession and given that, um, uh, it's a a unique community that a lot of things had to be pierced through and quietly worked at. And that's the strategy I chose to use work with the people you know first, and then do a lot of corridor and a lot of question asking and and at the same time I could find out all the questions that the community were asking. And so we we made it safe for you. And, uh, most of the phobic ideas that humans had at the time that they were with because, like all humans, if you don't know knowledge, then you are up frightened. And, uh, that was cool. But, um, with working out and having our community with, um, we were able to get the issue with building, uh, here in Auckland and that became our centre for all of us to live with and gather together and under the the, um and and that we have a relationship and to each other. Um, and there was nothing else I didn't even think about, you know, very diverse, diverse, unique book. Because to me, if you go back to that same, what is the most important thing? So, um, for the film and it was good, then a lot of the people within the, um organisation with Warren and all those who who were there, then began to think, Oh, what's so bad after and a lot of the things just sort of fell into place. And so we were able to work together, not against each other, but still giving Ian, um, space to say this is strategic plan. If is the correct way of behaving in a given situation, then the opposite of that is which is incorrect. So, um, and using those, uh, things that I've learned from my nanny, Uh, they were very basic things, and I felt there was a safe way to go rather than get into confrontation or, um, to have debates around why and why not? And who she is so and so on and so forth. So it worked. So our family began to grow and Ian was able then to contact all the with and that was his main object. I said, No, we start with a first. Is those people who your position is saying now that you are going to be there and their leader and we get them all? And of course, a great in you tell one person next minute it's just and just grab. And everybody started coming because they felt for the first time they had some space of their own that we could all get together under one. And that that is our own Maori and our own way of expression, how we should behave and them. And at that time, most of the boys were, um in the in the box, up at and all over the city. So just tell one person and next minute they telling us to come on. And so I, uh, I was asking piece of questions for me to ask was to ask the organisation, What have you got to keep me safe having with men? And so they provided water, um, and get it on condoms and and to be safe. So my job was to take leaders within different, um individual groups of and have a meeting with them first. And so the main here is that you've all heard about the virus and you all know certain that have come back with it or have got it. And I think there's nothing to be. What we've got to do is educate our people to, um, use the condom and to be safe, the boat. And so that being an educated, that is what we started off with and They had a little room up in, uh, where they, um, used to meet or especially the transgender. Um, and it was close for them to, um to come in and we'd open, um, and after hours because most of them do their work after hours and I sitting there during the day time when all of them are sleep. So that's basically and his work. And he used to pick up all the boys who had no transport, and he just had such a AAA lovely heart. And because he had been out, I don't even think he was in the cloth of the ball because his mother told you his mother and his two sisters are twins. They are as well. And, you know, being the youngest of 10 10 members in the family. A lot of his father when he was quite still a baby. And then, um, his mother supported all of the 10 Children. And, uh, yeah, and that's Ian Carter in your educational work with the AIDS Foundation. What? What was the hardest part for you, I guess. Well, for me, especially, um, I've been taught that I've got to be skill that I taught me. If you do something, you research it well, you do it well and you don't look back. You look forward and nothing's been a challenging thing for me. It's just that I feel very passionate about others who are less fortunate than me. And if it's in my power to make a difference in their life, then that has always been my It doesn't matter who it is and where they come from. And, uh, because I was, uh, I guess I've always been for the underdog and those who are less fortunate for any circumstance, whether they be rich. Poor. Yeah. What? What comes through a lot to me is that there's a huge level of of respect and love and sharing. Well, there can be other philosophies behind that. Um um, And, uh, how do you teach respect? Um, respect is given if you are quite clear, that how whatever you plan and whatever you endeavour and that is that it's correct that nobody can peer through and play and and and say, Oh, you can't do that, aren't you? You can't do whatever. Um, because I even turn those negative thoughts and ideas to be positive because I always had the mind. Oh! Oh, God, please, for good. And they know not. And I do. So I have to make a difference in teaching. And I do believe in preaching. Um, because, um, I was born to be a teacher. It was my role that my nanny gave to me and, um, well, and everyone teaching me the advantage give so that And I said, No, I'm not because I know what I'm doing is correct. And if it's not correct, I then go and research and find out from the people internally. Uh, what is the mind here? What is your thought? What is your plan? What's going on? Can you issue so I can learn, Learn to learn to then make a difference everything different to that person who, for some unknown reason, may have some undercurrent or underpinning point of view. Then I say to them, I respect you. I respect your thoughts and ideas because God gave us the intellect to think. And if you're still thinking about it, well, then here's what I can offer then, uh, I oppose what it's the problem. Solving for me is to always try to listen first, be a good listener, have an open mind and be loving and being respectful because I want the same. Whatever that person gives to me, I demand it's a demand for me because I know it's correct. I don't want any crap. Why should I? It's wasting time. So and you And for that you can do all the talking in the front. For me, it's your actions, the actions of of how you will, um, solve the problem or how you will proceed to do whatever is action that you want. And I would like to have an assessment process and the outcomes and time is of the issue. I work with time. So to be a good time manager, to be able to be honest and to be respectful of others. And, uh, yeah, and those protocols of respect come with me having to quite clearly say, before we talk, I'd like to have a little kind of clear to to pave our way and to ask the Supreme Bank to give us this energy that is there so that we can accomplish whatever it is that we we've got ahead above and then to get thanks afterwards and to acknowledge the person I'm speaking or the people I'm speaking, I acknowledge them. And to me, that's the respect that, um is good all the time because I practise it. And then other thing said, Oh, we're gonna have a auntie I said, Oh, that's lovely. How about you give up for she talking to a higher being and concentrating on the issues that we have in front of? Oh, I see. That's never, um, you can learn how to do one. However small it is is like the green stone he could upon them he could upon them. It's just fair, fair. So that and I was teaching all those and, uh, and to the guy said, Well, if you can't say how about And that's the same form of of the words that you want to choose them and teach them why they don't know. And, um yeah, but it inclusive rather than exclusive. And if you make people safe, I talk about culture safety. That is what I mean, being respectful of each other and to means to be humble. And, um, there are certain times when we're having discussions that I can actually, um, get into talking about things in a positive manner rather than negative side over your time with the AIDS Foundation. Have you noticed a difference in and how they relate to the AIDS foundation and how they relate to themselves through your work? Yes, I have. It's changed at the beginning. They didn't know about the Age Foundation because it was a non event. All they knew is that they were a with they were classified, as has been a person that had made the choice to be unique first and foremost. And however they behaved with it in that uniqueness, what's her right as a human person. And I acknowledge that and I've seen the change come drastic change come about, um, with the respect, because before there are quite a, um what's the word is not vicious, but they do tell us red colours in their behaviour because they only know how to survive by them by mouthing off and, um, getting physical and being men. And, um, yeah, and did you get the opposite? Who are those people who pay the female role and quite subdued. And, um uh, the the you know, there's there's a gentle softness in them and I watch. I've watched the development, I call it, but not not change. Humans develop, and they only develop with knowledge that they require so that they can progress forward in whatever they endeavour. And that's how I put there. Um, So, yeah, I've watched the the development and I've watched 16 year old come into this organisation and, uh or and I watched them develop. And now, uh, 10 years and I use Jordan Harris as a John because he was our and I I and I started and he was sweet 16 and he was so gentle. And, uh yeah, and um watched him develop over the over the years and said to him, You need to think about where you're going, There's this organisation and if you have a if there's a place for you and that I'd like you to apply for it, I'm feeling a bit shy. So we have. We practise, and we do. I do a lot of playback, and I do a lot of, um, just acting out and role situation play roles and things like that until they get the plot and they're quite happy, but it's a repetitious way of teaching. And until they feel they've got it, um, they say, Look, you make a fantastic. So he went and did that, and after being, um, assistant to and and then it was time for to move on. But I encouraged Children. Don't ever give up. Dream your dreams, set your goals, and then just go for it. Go. You're at I really have a shit, Ruben. So hi. Went down to to to papa, and then, um, Jordan took over in that position. He's in, uh, and it's, um, because of his gentleness. He's good. Makes a good leader. I feel, you know, you don't need the big. What you need is to have to go in, and you know how to do that. And you know how to, um, upskill yourself with you're real, so it makes you more proficient in everything you do. So, um, yeah, and so now who's at the top level of the position in the organisation? And, um, he is a good leader. A good leader is a leader who's quite clear in their mind that it was, and and he still comes and use a I'm just a backup. Auntie will always be there if the hard basket is too hard and it will be and make no going to be. But before auntie gives you the answers, you have a mind of your own. You need to think quite clearly and, um, make sure that it's gonna work and all I do is just say, that's not Oh, no, you can do this. And so we find. And then, um it works. Is this how Nana taught you this? You learn by asking questions. You learn by making mistakes. You learn by humans do and you give it a go. Um, my nanny never gave me the answers. She used to use the phrase time. The time will come when you will know. And I use that with every person that I helped along the way because what solution? They give the answers that doesn't solve their problems. Or does it make them alert to use the name to think? And that's the strategy I was with. And he said, too impatient. But why? Then when is the war coming? The will come and you will know. Then you stop asking questions. Well, that must be quite tricky, though, because I mean, in this day and age where everything is so fast to actually say, Just wait. It will come that that must. I knew what she meant, but I think it clicked to me when I was a teenager. I think, Ah, that why I've been so impatient and ask him when I was little because all the Children were said. But why Mummy? Why? And and the whole philosophy behind it is that at that age young age, you're really not ready to be told the answers until you actually develop your mind and and do the action yourself. So but you don't ever give up trying. I said, I want your bag. I I'll I'll do it myself. And then I did the recipient of it because, well, I tried it. But it was wrong. Wasn't so, but I think that that's the philosophy of work with them. Uh, I taught so many people the same thing, and they held on to that and treasure that and tried to look at the, um, the actions that they do but always give encouragement to others to, um begin to think for themselves Uh, yeah. So that's that's, um, what I've done. What's your role with the foundation? Now? Uh, the role for the foundation came about when, uh, this Rachel rat manager, um, was, uh, the director. And because the boys had worked with her and when I referred to the boys who as Children there, um, positions of responsibility now that they've taken over had been created because, um, Raha had a terrific vision and she had quite specific ideas of, um, the partnership and and doing work together. And she gave that space and the time for it to. And we're grateful to her, um, throughout the whole organisation, economically, show that, uh and, uh, Richard and all the older, um, they had gone through that the dark ages, as I call them, because they were the first to go through and all not just the but we as well. And then they all had to fight for their survival with the police and the community just being phobic about them, what they were trying to demonstrate. And, uh, yeah, but when it comes to this, I call this another generation because, uh, then things began to change for the better. But I, I actually think the older and both and for doing what they did. Now the young ones don't have to go through that anymore. Why? Because the whole world now is educated around the acceptance of the uniqueness of each individual and can express quite clearly how they feel about themselves. Yeah, and so your role now at the AIDS Foundation. What is that, Um that that developed that, developed with Rachel and the farmer and had to take, um, the old and the young and Maori, especially to say no more now because they didn't make it in their times. Um, even when they had positions and the trust for Maori person to go and Richard and had been involved right from the very beginning and if their cry hadn't been, um, heard. But then they still carried on because, you know, they were recipients of that sort of behaviour, and they were, uh, developing, So change had to come. And the change has come about that with most modern. Now we're looking at the treasure of I have to. We are now responsible for being the partner. And what does that mean? And the internet organisations like the US and Foundation then could provide a top level, um kind of were clear and clear within the and in the areas. And, um and and, um is to acknowledge of each of the areas and then the final and, uh, to always get back and acknowledge that they are So, um, that has happened. And it's been an exciting time for for and, um without the tea cups I mean, you know, you had to go through all that, But when I was asked, it was the boys that chose me and they said, Oh, Auntie was been since we were 16 and would like her to come. And I was greatly on the phone. Of course, I feel, you know, being with with you all these years, and, uh, I have a passion for people. And actually, um, yeah, and of course I got to do. And I asked. I asked my here, and I told him what he asked me, and he said, Well, what are you asking me for? And I said, Oh, man, she is a good man for me to tell you, because you and he said, Well, you're doing the work where you go. And if you need me, I'll be here. And I guess that's a protocol as well as a risk to OK, so, um, I was chosen to do that position, and, um at the time, uh, one of the boys Jeff was asked to do, uh, because we celebrated last year 2010 or 25 years of the organisation and they had plenty of celebrations, and, uh so they required a whole a whole lot of things that needed to be looked at. And so I, uh, he wrote, um, the organisation and just give a document of all the things that have happened and the Maori input as well. So he was also asked to write, um, how to behave in the poor, the procedures and all the things. So he called me up and him and Jordan and said, Can you help us? I said, Certainly. So we didn't be able to just, um, put that on paper and to have it ok by the trust and have it ok by, um, the church and and began to put it into a real action because this has been going on for a long time. Um when I say real action, we are now being acknowledged financially to do the work that is required. When? When you and I've been advocating that for all. No matter what organisation I've been in and and being at that level as well with the people at the they say this is it. It's not negotiable. And for these reasons And, um, here are the ways about around it and how we can behave with it. And everybody, um what I say that so much so that everybody once wanted to practise. They want to do, you know upskilling themselves because it is they can part take, no matter who the no matter where we are, no matter who is being welcomed or who's been out or just an acknowledgment and respect of the human person who we are performing for. Yeah. Interestingly, you you were saying about the 25th celebrations? Do you? Did you think back in 1990 when you started doing this kind of work that you would be doing similar stuff for 20 years in 20 years time? Yes, Yes, I do, because that's one of the things that my nanny taught me. Whenever you make a commitment to any work that you do in the community, no matter what work you do, you make a commitment to the better end to, um to your department or you use it to teach others so that they can. No one's indispensable here to say you can die tomorrow. Somebody will take your place. But it's to teach others that that's what I've tried to do with as the age groups go. Then the old teaches the young and then these ones. You are old so the next lot come and they teach and you pass The knowledge on knowledge is not hard doesn't belong to us. It belongs to the universe and it's given unconditionally. So who are we to, um, to do that? Well, Auntie Wai, thank you so much for taking the time and being so generous with your time and and memories over the last little while. I, I really appreciate it. So, um yeah, Thank you. Oh, thank you, girl. So, uh, just before we finish, I just want to thank you and thank the organisation and especially where the funding has come from. And yet we were part of the function for the celebration of this year. And, um, the work that that needs to be, um, to be told, needs to be written, needs to be photographed, needs to be used on modern technology. Um, because that's part of the stories, obviously, and coming forward to now and into the century. And, uh, it could be used as a learning process for, um, all who are keen to to take up the challenge for one way or another. And, um yeah, so I just want to say thank you very much for your, um well, and those people who were very generous to choose me to tell my story. OK, so with that, I'd just like to finish with a and give thanks and January. Thank you very much. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1980s ; Africa ; Auckland ; Aunty Wai Mason ; Australia ; Bible ; Canada ; Christmas ; Community Law ; Gay Auckland Business Association (GABA) ; God ; HIV / AIDS ; Iraq ; Japan ; Job ; Korea ; Māori ; New Zealand AIDS Foundation (NZAF) ; North Shore ; People ; Russia ; Space ; Stuff ; Tokyo ; Tīwhanawhana ; Warren Lindberg ; abortion ; acceptance ; acting ; actions ; alcohol ; attitude ; author ; board ; cancer ; career ; celebration ; change ; children ; choice ; class ; code ; coffee ; collective ; community ; condoms ; connect ; courage ; crown ; culture ; data ; difference ; dignity ; disability ; discrimination ; dream ; education ; emotional ; energy ; face ; failure ; family ; fear ; forgiveness ; friends ; fun ; funding ; future ; gay ; grief ; hair ; health ; hell ; hit ; hope ; humanity ; individual ; injustice ; intimacy ; isolation ; justice ; karate ; knowledge ; language ; law ; listening ; love ; mana ; mantra ; march ; marketing ; marriage ; middle class ; mistakes ; monitor ; music ; nature ; news ; other ; pa ; pain ; partnership ; passion ; performance ; persistence ; petition ; plan ; poetry ; poverty ; power ; prayer ; primary school ; prison ; privilege ; profile ; research ; respect ; running ; scene ; school ; secondary school ; security ; sexuality ; ships ; soul ; straight ; strategy ; structure ; support ; survival ; teacher ; teaching ; technology ; time ; top ; touch ; tough ; training ; transport ; travel ; treaty ; trust ; twins ; uniqueness ; university ; veteran ; violence ; vote ; water ; women ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/aunty_wai_mason_profile.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089180. Aunty Wai Mason also features audibly in the following recordings: "Gifting ceremony, Auckland - NZ AIDS Memorial Quilt". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.