The title of this recording is "Anne Speir profile". It was recorded in Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 6th February 2011. Anne Speir is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 1 hour. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Anne talks about growing up, working in the media, activism in the 1970s and 1980s, working on the Hero events in the 1990s and doing stand-up comedy. The content in the recording covers the 1960s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This summary outlines the life and experiences of Anne Speir, who reflects on their journey from a middle-class upbringing in Tauranga, Aotearoa New Zealand, to becoming a notable figure in media, activism, and entertainment. Initially influenced by a theater-centric family and the worlds of amateur operatic and surf lifesaving, Speir's path diverged from conventional female roles of the time toward greater self-discovery and societal involvement. In Christchurch during the late 1970s, Speir encountered feminism, leading to a profound personal and political awakening. Attendance at the 1977 International Women's Convention was a pivotal moment, highlighting the injustices faced by women and the potent unity of sisterhood. It also sowed the seeds of Speir's coming out as a lesbian, contributing further to their journey into activism, especially within feminist and lesbian circles. Speir's career in television was marked by progression amid discrimination; despite achieving significant milestones, including working on prominent programs and navigating industry bureaucracy, advancements were hindered due to their open sexuality. The era was riddled with contrasting dynamics of collegial support within the industry, against a backdrop of broader societal prejudices. The personal narrative delves into various forms of activism, ranging from abortion rights to anti-nuclear protests, reflecting the spirit and issues of the times. The discussion also covers internal community debates, such as the divisions between lesbian and gay men during the homosexual law reform movement, and the broader struggles of gender, identity, and acceptance. Transitioning to a personal tale of perseverance, Speir recounts the trials faced following the collapse of the Hero events in the 1990s, maintaining a public presence through a comedic character while navigating backlash and community scrutiny. Marking a significant contribution to queer media, Speir produced the world's first indigenous Queer television program aired on Maori Television, framing their legacy within the context of broadcasting's evolution and the changing discourse of LGBTQ+ representation. Throughout the account, Speir emphasizes the importance of personal integrity and the impact of standing up against discrimination and injustice. Offering advice to those looking to make a difference, they advocate for introspection, courage, and action in the face of societal challenges. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Um, my name is Anne Speer. I grew up in Tauranga and from a nice middle class family in Tauranga. My parents are theatre people. They were heavily involved in amateur operatic, so I had quite a straight bringing up. But it always had different people around, like because operatic attracts quite different people. So that's where I first met Gay men, actually, because there weren't many lesbians in theatre. Went to an all girls school heavily involved in surf life Saving was the first professional female lifeguard on Mount Mangan Beach in the seventies. Very much a sport, But, um, I thoroughly loved it. But I had this bizarre surf life saving during the day and theatre at night. There was a small professional theatre company in called Gateway Players that I did a lot of volunteering and hanging out with. I moved from Tauranga to Christchurch, just sort of because I decided not to do any of the traditional nursing social work or teaching and was looking to just have a gap here, really? So moved to Christchurch, Um, discovered feminism. In many ways, I went to it was quite bizarre. There was a, um, a famous or a Wellington radio announcer, actually, or New Zealand radio announcer called Lee Hadley. And I'd met Lee Lee's daughter, Lindy, through, um, Gateway players in Tauranga. And we have the same birthday, different ages. But we were born on the same day, so we had an instant bond. Anyway, I was, um I moved to Christchurch, was hanging out walking down Colombo Street on my birthday, and I ran into Lindy and Lindy when Happy birthday and what are you doing? And I said nothing, really. I don't know many people here and she said, Come back to my place. We're not doing anything either. So just come back and have dinner with us and I went, OK, then. So we walk into this house and it's really quiet and dead, and Lindy goes, Oh, I don't know where everyone is. I'm just going to the loo. You go in there into the lounge, and so I opened the door into the lounge or she disappeared to the loo, and this room just erupted with Happy Birthday and then everyone looking completely shocked at not knowing who was standing there for the birthday. And then Lindy came out of the toilet and pops around and goes, Oh, S birthday as well la la la And that's when, um, I first met Lindy and a whole lot of broadcasting type people in Christchurch and Lee, knowing my background hassled me to sort of apply. So I ended up applying to work at South Pacific Television in Christchurch. What year are we talking talking? 1977 76 was the year I applied 77 was when I started, So that took a little bit of, um, Hara, not harassment, but, you know, bur bureaucracy running around. And I ended up going back to work on the beach at the Mount for that summer and had an accident on. I was riding on the back of one of the little motorbikes we had on the beach and we came off and I got severely burnt on my leg, which meant I had to finish on the beach a couple of weeks early. But it also meant and I By then I'd got a start date for television, so it meant I started on crutches. I was on crutches on my first day on television in Gloucester Street as a tower building that was all up and all our studios are upstairs. So that was me. That was how I got into television through Lee Lee was at the time doing some TV work. That was, um, who's New Zealand's most famous woman? Kids writer. Um, Margaret Ma. That's right. She was. We were doing some TV work for Margaret Mahy, which was a really beautiful show, and Lee was the principal character and the unfortunate thing in classic of broadcasting in those days. The tapes are too expensive, so it was all erased. And yet there's a show that we made in the seventies that would be distributed around the world. Now being Margaret May, I worked on the first ever episodes of a Week of It, which was early New Zealand comedy and the haunting We Will Go, which is another classic Children's programme. I worked on that, um and anyway, so II. I had this career in television, and there was the um International Women's Convention in Christchurch, and I decided to go to it, and that was fascinating, actually, because I couldn't get time off. So I was having to do night shifts through doing, working, um, convention during the day and night shift at night in the media. And what happened in that year 77 women's convention was that the organisers had asked the media to please send women only crew or reporters and one media organisation and I think it was radio. But I can't I can't remember exactly whose organisation it was. But one organisation sent a man along and I I I'll never understand why he didn't just run, actually, because here was this auditorium it was Christchurch Town Hall. So there was an auditorium with 1300 women in it. And this is early days of feminism. So there was quite a buzz around with this one bloke sitting in the middle of it, and he was so out of place. And what happened was that the lesbians who I'm still unidentified at this or undefined at this place sexuality undefined. Um, Anyway, the stuffy lesbians all sat behind him and did what we used to do to the wizard in the square, which was just his goes, you know, get out of here. And then one woman poked him to get him to leave and he created He created an issue around that of being an assault issue and effectively, all the other media organisations banded together and banned any reporting. It was International Women's Year in 1977 and banned any reporting of the convention or international women's year on the basis of the abuse that this one man, um experienced, which is really classic of headspace of the time, basically that no one thought about the 1300 women and the abuse of having one man in amongst an environment they were trying to create, which was safe for them to talk about whatever they wanted. Um, and the tables were turned, But my lasting memories of that convention were Whenever I hear I am woman, I am strong. That was sung by 1300 women and the energy, and that is still palpable today. Like I can still conjure that the minute I hear that song, it was quite phenomenal. Um, it was an awakening for me about, um to feminism and to stuff that I innately knew but hadn't been able to actually name or label in that sense, or that others out there had the same um, perceptions as me or or head space around it as me and went to a few of the social events and stuff. And I remember walking down Gloucester Street with a good friend of mine from TV, like just feeling like we were so powerful. Nothing could happen to us, you know, like we were really strong. And then from there it was fashion of the time to have what we call consciousness raising groups or CR groups you'll hear them talked about. So I joined AC R Group because it was about talking about your experiences and stuff, and we had quite it was quite amazing. Like, um, it was early. It was it was consciousness raising because it was fascinating to hear other people's stories and realise that the consciousness raising was about realising you weren't alone, that there were common stories for women all over the place. And then, um, me and my mate decided to go to the, um Adelaide Arts Festival. So we went on our first trip overseas trip to the Adelaide Festival of Arts, and they happened to be orientation week at the Uni at the same time. And we came across all these lesbians at orientation week and got on well with them and ended up hanging out with them for the week and decided I decided I was a lesbian then, um so again, that's a real statement at the seventies stuff. It was a head space thing rather than a fall in love or suddenly have to bonk someone. It was like, No, this is where I am. I'm definitely a lesbian. So I came home with all the gears, like the, um which is funny because it's still fashionable today, really. But the cargo pants, the army pants and the shirts and stuff and came out as I was in a roar and I was out as a dike and and, you know, trying to find that I felt I then met a woman in Christchurch who was my first lover. But the funny thing was that, um, my friend, um, who I went away with is quite a stunner. And so that was all right that I came home as a lesbian. You that was sort of accepted. This is at work and stuff. And then my mate came out about eight months later, and it was so funny because we couldn't handle it, and they were saying things like, Um, we understand about Anne but she's just too gorgeous to be a lesbian. You know, There was all of that attitude as well. But the interesting time is that we were We were pretty radical. Then we had we did a lot of abortion protesting pro abortion protesting. Um, I secretly made a video tape about a, um, a thing called a menstrual extraction, which is is a quasi abortion. But it's a way for women to get their their menstruation over and done with. You just suck it out yourself. And that was sort of to show women that they had other options. Um, there was also sisters Overseas service that was set up in Christchurch, that I had little bits to do on the periphery of that. And that's, um, was sending women to Australia to have abortions. Some pretty horror stories came out of that, but there was a steady trade of women flying to Sydney being met, having an abortion and flying home, which I must be traumatic for any woman. Interesting as well that it was the lesbians at the forefront of such a heterosexual issue, basically, um, then and also working in television, which was quite collegial. Everyone covered for each other, and you could swap shifts quite easily or do little favours. It was all about like being collegial, and this was a space that we could create and all of that sort of stuff, which is fascinating in today's day because nobody's collegial. Now it's all about your own self. You dob someone in if you want to, rather than cover for them and work it out between you. But that's irrelevant, really. But so anyway, after a while I wanted to move to Auckland, so I managed to get a transfer up here to Auckland and hung out with the So we were lesbian separatists. When I came out, I came out as a lesbian feminist separatist, and we could have hours of debate around the kitchen table as to whether you were a lesbian, feminist separatist or a feminist lesbian separatist. And the difference was immense. So, you know, there was still because us feminists didn't really take into account at the time, the whole history that there was a secret culture of lesbian history anyway. But that was the really secret culture. It was even more secret than the men, Really, In the sense that men had a place out there on the street in the world, we live in a patriarchal world. They immediately had a place in it, of which women didn't. So the dykes were either hardcore bar dikes, you know, the butcher and the fem and that sort of stuff all just quite hidden, Like looking back on it. I had at least one lesbian teacher, but there was no way until I had a consciousness about lesbianism that I would have ever picked that it was just natural that it was classic. The real classic excuse in those days was she lost her fiance in the war, You know, for any women in their forties or whatever. Um and that was the excuse that we'd all heard about my teacher. And that was, as I, um we just accepted it. So lesbianism was very, um, invisible. And so we were determined to make it visible. There was a couple of moments of crossover in both my visibility and my career that were interesting. Um, it always meant I had a glass ceiling. There was never any chance of me advancing anywhere because I was too scary in the sense that I was a lesbian. And even though it was never actually said, every promotion I went for was turned down. Everything I went for was turned down, but the real telling one, was it two telling things about it? Sum up women at the time. Actually, Miss World was on here or Miss New Zealand, Miss New Zealand. It would have been. And I knew everyone asked me what we should do because we were Everyone protested about the, um I mean emancipation. But the attitude or imagery of women in Miss World was definitely not one that we were after. And everyone asked me what they should do for protests. And I just laughed and said The only thing you could really do would be get a huge magnet and run it down the side of the outside brook of the OB. Now that would fuck everything right. But knowing that that wasn't quite feasible. But at least I had given someone some experience and I I made sure I wasn't roster on it or they wouldn't anyway, because they knew how I felt. I wasn't roster on it. And on that particular night I was out drinking with people from work like it was a conscious decision to be visible that I was nowhere near the. I knew some protest had been planned, but I was also ethical and that I asked everyone not to tell me a word about it. I didn't want to know. I didn't need to know. And so I. I was happy that there was something happening. But anyway, there was a major protest. The women got on stage, got into the room and got on stage and stopped the broadcast, which was a live broadcast. It was an immediate throw to commercial break and stuff. Well, about a couple of months later, I really I found out that on my record at work, I was the one blamed for that protest. I was like it it, like on record, which disgusted me actually, um that I was the linchpin of of allowing these women to get into the building and protest, which I can't see how they could have ever justified knowing that I was in a bar, a completely different place. But I did find out which was quite lovely. Those are the days that broadcasting used to have really nice cafeterias, really good cafeterias because they believed in feeding us because we work such bizarre shifts. And the the the, um, cafeteria women were real diehard, classic kiwi women and always worrying that you hadn't eaten enough or, you know that you've been working a lot of night shifts and you were looking a little bit pale or they'd always have something like that to say anyone. It was one of the little old grey haired ladies that had let the protesters in. And consciously, that was her conscious, um, protest. But the the it just shows you the measure of the management there that I was the one pinned for it. And the other thing that was happening around the time was that we weren't going through yet another restructure, whether we were called programme operators or technical operators or, uh, because I started I was working in television and as a a video tape, um, editor, operator, editor in the engine room, Basically, and, um, I left to go and do my OE when this review was still in process and I I left on 12 months leave without pay, like I was planning on coming back in 12 months, which I never did. But I left to go to London. And after about six months in London, I got a letter from Television New Zealand to tell me that I had been underpaid by three grades, which anyone in broadcasting will realise is actually quite a lot of money. So I was maintained. I was kept on the lowest grade, feasible because of being a dike. Predominantly, I can say that now that would be the reason and yet the work. And when they did this review, the only thing they could, um, look back on was the rosters I had done leading up to leaving. And the work I did on my rostered shifts should have been I should have been paid another 3. 5 $1000 more, and we're talking in the early days. I mean, I started in television in 77. My my starting salary was 4. 5 $1000 a year, which is just you just wouldn't conceive now. So by 1979 when I left, I was still only on about $8000 and should have been on 12. So that shows the value of women or women who stepped above the pulpit, I suppose, or stepped. You know, we're prepared to stand up and be counted. Um, I have some great friends from that time. I have a couple of regrets of that time, too. We did a major protest at ANZAC Day one year, and it was heavy and it was dawn service and we were calling, um, servicemen, rapists and assholes and oppressors and which was sort of the rhetoric of the time. And, um but that was quite funny. It was just before I mean, was it before I went anyway, we were chased by the cops going home. That was quite entertaining. We sort of had to do our many car chase to get away from the cops. It wasn't until years later, to be honest, that I thought about the horror of war and what those men had really been through and felt quite guilty or horrible that we've done that to those men. And but in the heat of our own battle, we hadn't seen the bigger picture. And it's only in retrospect when you when your battle is possibly a little more, um, embers than full on flames that you can look back and think that sort of stuff. So just going back to that 1977 conference Did you have a lot of feminist energy prior to that? We did. We did, Or was it just like a complete watershed for you? It was like a moment where you thought Wow, it really was like a watershed. It was the energy Every woman knows when they've been stopped or and you don't realise. But, you know, say, like, take surf lifesaving. For example, I was the strongest swimmer. I was the club captain for women's club. Captain. I did a whole heap of things like just that was just who I was. I was a big, strong woman, but we couldn't do craft. We couldn't do the surf ski or the surf boats or the or the, um, canoes or the paddle boards because we were women. You know, women didn't do that sort of stuff. We could have got into trouble in the surf. And I'm going Well, what's the difference between swimming out into a 12 ft storm surf and rescuing someone and, you know, all that sort of stuff. So you had these questions that you you had anyway. But I was quite fortunate in the sense that I went to a girls school, um, Girls College and Jo Dryden, headmistress at the time, was a pioneering feminist. In the sixth form, I was in sixth. She had sent women to the school girls, you know, like students to the very, very first Auckland, the very first women's convention, which I think was in 75 or 74 here in Auckland and then arranged a mini convention of speakers that were at that convention to come and speak to us in school. So in some ways, the consciousness raising had really subtly begun at that point. And the interesting thing was, I, um I at school, I used to hang out at the theatre. I used to wag a lot basically and go down to the theatre and we go to the beach and chill out and stuff. And the headmistress sort of knew this of me. So when she arranged this feminist day this women's convention day at school, she a week a week earlier called me into her office and blatantly said to me, and I know you probably plan to wag this so to stop you that you're introducing three of the speakers, you know, like so she had my measure, too, probably. And in that sense, it was a great day. I really I. I mean, you know, we met, um, Marilyn. We was a speaker in those days because she was a very I'm not sure if she would, she must have been in parliament then just in parliament. So there was quite an interesting mix of women. So in that sense, I think what What the feminist revolution in in per se did was actually just give context for women for stuff they innately felt. But in this at that 77 convention, you know, I went to a radical lesbian radical lesbian workshop and was, and this is even before I thought I was, But how could I thought I wasn't When I ran away from any man that tried to date me or, you know, like I had, I just didn't I just I didn't conceive that I wasn't heterosexual. I just didn't like the concept of having to go out with a bloke. Um, so it so it gave me a lot of awareness. Like I mean, in those days, the word lesbian would have been hardly used. Or if it was, it would have been incredibly derogatory. There was no positive imagery of anything like that in, um in the media or, you know, out there and and films and stuff and the imagery of camp men were allowed. But of course, feminist lesbians were certainly not camp men and not with the same value or aesthetic, so that didn't really fit. But at the same time, um, at least I'd known if you gave me and I kind of said that I didn't have my involvement in theatre, but see, lesbians weren't really allowed in theatre. There's a few dikes from that era who still are pretty closet about the fact that they've been lesbians all that time. And they're quite prominent now here in New Zealand. And that always saddened me that they've had to stay in the closet. But it pretty much is because they didn't want to be typecast or in that sort of realm. So that 77 convention just opened my eyes. Really, absolutely opened my eyes and gave me a kick up the arse and then did your travel to London in the early eighties. Did that, I guess, broaden you even further. It was quite interesting. You know, we believe that we are at the end of the earth, and everyone else is far ahead of us and stuff. And so I went to London and there was a, um a squat in Hackney that, um was there for Australasian women and Tian women because the English women were sick of kiwi and Aussie women arriving on their doorsteps going, you know, so and so who knows So and so who told me I could come here and stay So we originally stayed in the squat in Hackney lots of different women. And, um, we're doing the big OE thing. I went to a convention there, actually, a year into being in London and, uh, English politics was more about socialism in class. But I went to a convention there, and I remember sitting there at that time going, Oh, my God. New Zealand's way ahead of here, like we were way ahead, especially in our concept of bicultural and or multiculturalism. uh, racism. Classism may be not so much, but yes, at the same time equal. But the fascinating thing the thing I'll never forget about that convention was this is just after Blair Peach had been killed. It's been a year or two after Blair Peach had been killed or the Special Patrol group was still in force. That's who have now, in 2011, 2010. They were blamed for killing. Be Peach was always denied. Anyway, the Special Patrol Group were there Anyway. We had a AD that night to the conference in Notting Hill, and it was sort of in a hall in a in a venue that was surrounded by one way street. So you had to all everyone arrived on the same street and left by the same street, if you know what I mean. And there were a whole lot of all night. There were these skinheads and hippies trying to get in to smash the lesbians and smash the women and stuff. So everyone was told to leave in groups don't leave alone. It wasn't safe to leave in groups and all that sort of stuff, and I happened to be, um, and one of the early groups to leave. Um, and we were walking down the road and we came across it. So there's eight of us eight or nine of us walk down the road. And we came across a bloke, um, threatening his beating up his wife, actually. And so we were across the road and yelling at her to be strong. And, you know, she didn't have to take this abuse and Ra Ra Ra Ra ra, and we crossed the road to see if we could help her. And honestly, seconds later, there was just and all of this time, these women starting to leave this road, this venue. And so we went across to help her, and we were just sort of There was nothing violent about it, but we were supporting her and standing between her, her husband and her, who were still wanting to beat her up. And next thing, all these, um, vans of cops just suddenly arrive out of nowhere. They must have been waiting just around the corner like arrive out of nowhere and just get out of their vans and start indiscriminately bashing women. So you heard There was, um, something like 2. 5 1000 women at this at this event. And you had 2. 5 1000 women because also London finishes at 12 o'clock. Like people forget that here that at 12 o'clock it stops. So everyone was leaving the venue pouring into the situation of this complete bash up. It was horrendous, and I only didn't get bashed over the head. I'll never forget that. This guy standing in front of me with a ba in his hand and I'm screaming at him. What the fuck do you think you're doing? What is this about? We've done nothing. And I looked him right in the eye because I was his height and he turned around and bashed someone else like, you know, And we about nine women were arrested. Some of my group I wasn't, but nine were arrested, so we all and nobody had any money. And of course, the tubes were shut and all that sort of stuff. So we went down to Notting Hill police Station to support them or see what we could do to help them. I asked to go to the toilet at and asked where a toilet was that I could use at the police station. And the cop put a rubbish bin on the counter and said, Scum like you, that's all you require. That was his idea of a toilet we negotiated. And we were told by the senior sergeant that we should all leave and go home. This is like 34 in the morning. Um, because the women weren't being released until seven o'clock when they'd faced court the next day and no one would be released. So we did discuss this and we were given the assurance that that was the case. So we did leave. So those of us with cars, anyone with access to a car, we did leave. And then we discovered. And this is pre cell phones as well, You can remember. And what we discovered was that the cops released the women that had arrested half an hour after we left, which gave them absolutely no resource. They had no money. No tubes were open at that time of day, nowhere to get home. It was quite so That was the attitude towards lesbians and feminists in that day. And but And that was my my my lasting imagery of the Special Patrol Group. So I clapped and cheered when they were finally finger pointed that they killed Blue Peach because they were nasty and vicious. So that was London. But that was a that was my only convention I ever went to in London. Um, and as I say, I also decided from the rhetoric of it and how the bisexual women tried to capture it and Socialists that New Zealand was actually way ahead politically. In that sense, um, we hang out, hung out in ghetto. Still, there was still a little ghetto of lesbians that you all hang out together. Then I came home and the scene had changed a little bit. Here. I missed the tour. I missed the Springbok tour. So the community here had gone from. We'd done happy, protesting like for the abortion protest. One of our protests was to rope off Victoria Street, Queen Street intersection at 5 to 5 on a II. I can't remember if it was a Friday night or what it was, but it was, you know, rush hour, Auckland rush hour. We roped off the intersection and sat down and refused to budge and, you know, here's the cop going. Oh, no, we won't arrest them. We'll just wait till they get tired of it because we don't want to give them publicity. And it was People were pissed off with us and everything, but you didn't get publicity. Or but you didn't get bashed either. It was sort of like a them and us situation. I we'll wait and see. I mean, one of my other really classic moments, and I'll never forget either. Is, um, some women who shall forever be remain nameless, and I wasn't one of them, but I do know who a couple who did it managed to sneak into the bus station, the bus where the buses are all held and spray pro abortion, um, banners ride all over the buses right before they rolled out for the 6 a. m. like rush hour. So there was no way they could get rid of the banners that were across the buses. The girl, one of the girls who did it, told me it was one of the scariest moments of her life. But, you know, we did sort of protests like that, and and and but then, as I say, I missed the Springbok tour. I did see some of it through the satellite because I was working for ABC news, actually in London, but because we'd had the Brixton riots that had an of no, um, rioting to go to wear. So very little of that footage actually got to wear in England because of that edict. But I managed to see and it was quite freaky sitting there taking the satellite feed, seeing your mates on the front line. So there were the lesbians on the front line again with the, um with Maori, like out there to fight and charge and stuff. So when I came back, the scene was a little bit different in the in the sense that New Zealand had been bloodied as well by what they witnessed or experienced and as the same whatever. For me, it's anecdotal. And then we moved into things like the the homosexual law reform. Well, the interesting thing for that is, um, first of all, the HIV pandemic sort of started. And as much as I wasn't involved in the early days, I did know women who were, um the women, pretty much rallied to teach the boys how to, um, effectively communicate or disseminate information because as protesters, we had the classic telephone tree situation so you could get your information out to a lot of women very quickly. You know, you rang. You had 15 on your list. They had each had 15 on their list. As exponential as it goes out. Um, then homosexual law reform. Yeah, it was interesting for the dikes, because effectively, we had nothing to fight for because we weren't in the legislation. So, um, I do remember. And again, this is the difference of gay men and lesbians are really different. No matter what way we look at it, they are really different. And so I only have another memory of that time. Is the empire just down the road from where we are actually, um was sort of the gay bar of Auckland, and we there was called to have the first ever Homo march gay march in Auckland. So there was a meeting called for the gays and the lesbians at the Empire, and I remember being in the meeting and everyone it was all sort of, you know, Yeah, we can do this and do that. And it was. And at the very end, someone sort of actually think it was. Britt Shepherd stood up and said, Um, now, for those who want masks, will it be available for the men? And of course, the lesbians go, What are you wearing masks for? You've got to stand up and be counted. Da da da completely, really not conceiving that that identification as being gay for men could mean loss of job and jail, Really? Or, you know, like prosecution in that sense because, as I say, we went in the legislation in the statute. So we had this huge walkout and this big split that we wouldn't march if it until the men were honest about it. And that political split between the lesbians and the men lasted a long time. There was a lot of distrust, and then the bars at the time, like there was the Alex at the time that used to take a lot of lesbians, but the clubs like staircase and stuff. If the club was full, the dikes were the first to be refused entry. But at the same time, you could pretty much guarantee that if the dikes came, there'd be a fight. So it's one of those dilemmas. But yeah, we were discriminated in, our within our own community. In a sense, we never had the money or the political push. And then came law reform, of which the men knew. They had to use some the women's energy to get that through. And that, I suppose, united us to a degree. But, um, it's funny how hindsight is a fabulous thing, isn't it? Because it was only later on that I realised the I knew I always knew the importance of law reform, but it was more, you know, that you as lesbian, she didn't really have to think about the, um, the follow on of being busted, you know of. But at the same time, gay men had the life of Riley here. At that time, they had their secret clubs, their secret parties. They had some of the men I know now still meant that they wish those days were were back. There was more cohesion and more sense of community, more sense of intergenerational relation, relating because someone had to teach you what the codes were to get into the clubs or whatever. So you did talk to your other generations more, whereas now the young just don't seem to be interested. And you can go anywhere they please thank you very much. You know, which is fine? Was the hero parade which started in the early nineties. Was that a way of trying to bring more of a community sense back? Well, no hero was started initially as a dance party to give HIV positive people a sense of empowerment. A sense of that, you know, like a feel good thing for them. So he has always been steeped in that being, um, born from the AIDS, the AIDS Foundation. Actually, um, it grew into the, um a great celebration that it was that it was, but it's it's initial sense was a small celebration of, um, being of of positive, positive people being positive, I suppose, in that sense. And also it was early days for dance parties. Dance parties were happening offshore, and so we were the first to really experience. And it's difficult to explain to people who've never been to one, But dance parties can be there. They're quite fabulous. Really. They can be hell or I was trying to think of a nice way to say in age, but they were really quite amazing. You open your eyes and they were wonderful experiences of people just being free to be who they wanted to be. Um, and that, I think, has had a lot of validity. Um, so on a personal level, by the end, by the eighties, by hero time, um, I I made a little anti nuclear film with, um, a couple of women called women on the move umbrella films. Me and Lisa have made it, actually. So we made this film called Women on the Move and which was about the big anti nuke march. Because, of course, that was the next thing that we were protesting for was, um, becoming anti nuke and stopping the warships coming in. Um, and then he was born sort of beyond that again. Uh, and I was by that stage I'd moved into making socks and shoelaces on a personal level for work. She gave me a little bit of freedom. Straight laced was the name of our shoe lace company. And I did a, um a postgraduate, uh, diploma at Victoria University. around that time I'll never forget. I used to stand up in these seminars and go, Hi, my name's Anne Spear and I'm the co owner of a firm called Straight Laced and everyone would always laugh, Sort of pissed me off in the end, but I'm going. Even when I tried not to look like a lesbian, I still look like a lesbian. We'll never get over that. But I suppose partly that's being 6 ft tall. I mean, you know, like, um, now there's more six footers of us, but and then I was sort of pretty much the tallest around for a while. Um, so hero was a funny thing. Hero was very closed. It was dance, the dance parties. It was fun to go to. And I I was trying to think when I came down here, what was my motivation for standing for the hero committee? But I just think I've always been community. Oh, I know what it was. I do know what it was I went through, Um, some a personal issue when my close clique of dikes that I'd always hung out with pushed put me on the shoulder, gave me the cold shoulder for a while, actually, um, rightly or wrongly, that happened. And that was the first time I personally had to look elsewhere for my support network. And there was a colleague, a gay colleague who I knew through television. Um, who we ended up hanging out a bit together. So I started to mix a bit more with in a mixed environment. Not so much always just lesbians, but in a mixed environment. And through that came when there were calls for, um, nominations for the hero committee. I decided to stand because I was, you know, my head was open to working with men and again, and I was one of two women on the committee when I first joined. And it was a very interesting, committed, passionate bunch, but very closed. And then slowly over the years, and then I ended up being the chair. As hero went through its different incarnations. It became a huge parade. Yeah, Yeah, it was. And it's interesting. Now when people are calling for bring back the hero parade, I just say to them, Yeah, and why should why should the queer community put up the in those days? It was like $280,000 It takes to put it on when no one pays you when you're there And you didn't get much gold coin like I just think it's the, you know, hero in perspective. There was nothing like the feeling of Pon Road on that day on that night. You really, really did feel that you owned the street and shown in many different ways like, um, one of the one of the parades. I remember that it was the same year as the same day as the Port Seafood Festival. So a lot of drunk people had come over to the parade and it was towards the end of the parade. And this guy was being a real asshole to some women and this cop, I'm trying to remember exactly how it happened. But anyway, the woman had sort of grabbed this guy and called the police, and this woman cop came over and they went blah, blah, blah. I can't remember exactly. And he goes, Oh, just fucking assholes. And she said, I'm going to turn around If you want to punch him, go right ahead. You know, like that was the and it sounds really violent and terrible when I say it like that. But the reality was it was one of those moments when you just saw sense. You know, he was just a drunk asshole being an asshole. And the cop going This is your night. This is your street your night. You know, you can you can deal with it. Um, and it was fascinating. After the demise of hero, the different conversation I can't forget. You know, I've talked to older women who straight women brought up their families, loved the hero parade, went to everyone because they just loved people seeing people celebrate, celebrating who they were and how they wanted to be. Um, so, yeah, it was a big night in Ponsonby, but, you know, did poncey road pay for it? No. The liquor king on poncey Road used to do more turnover on hero night than it did for the whole of the Christmas New Year break. And I think they used to give us $100 towards putting the parade on. So and with the demise of dance parties, as much as we had some really good ones, and I'll never forget there's about four that I'll always remember of the hero parties. One is one of the really early ones at the wharf down at the waterfront. It was amazing. It was beautiful. But we lost the ability to use the waterfront because of the Catholic head of the harbour board at the time. And what hero used to do was always put its own cleaners through the party before the official cleaners arrived because we knew what debris or could be there. And this particular year, the last year of the one down at the waterfront, the official cleaners arrived before our cleaners did through some I don't know why. And so you know, the fact that needles were found and condoms by the Galore were found and stuff was reported back to the harbour board, and we were never allowed to use that venue again. Um, and it moved out to, um Green Lane, which didn't really work entirely. It did for a while, but the dance parties were on the way, and everyone was doing dance parties by the end, you know? But we had the one in the town hall. It was fabulous. A seeing the town Hall pink. Seeing the queer flag, the flag flying above the town hall, some Christians got in and hit the fire alarm button about half an hour into the beginning of the party. And so heaps of fire engines because it's the town hall. So heaps of fire engines had to arrive for all the boys. It was about half hour into the party, so they were all just beginning to peak and all standing outside, loving the fact that there was 20 or 30 uniformed, butch, gorgeous looking firemen running around for them. And the Fire Department sent us the hero committee a letter afterwards saying it was the most orderly mass evacuation of anything they'd ever done. And I was tempted to write back and said, Oh, yes, well, you know when you've got a sort of, um, 1000 people peaking, 1000 men peeking in and uniforms they are just They were they were in heaven. So that was quite so. The old Christians didn't stop the party. It just gave the boys something extra to laugh about at the time, and that party went off. It was gorgeous. It was a it was amazing. We had Georgina Baer coming through the from the through the floor of the town hall is rest in peace. Led his, um, his Brazilian dancers and stuff in a huge number. Buck came down from the roof of the town hall where she was lowered from the roof. We had acts of theatre going throughout the venue. It was just one of those really amazing amazing parties. And it's a And the nice thing is, that was the last hero party. Not quite, actually, but it was the last of the old style of hero. The nice thing is to think about it in those terms, the sad thing is, what happened after that? But, you know, Yeah. Um, there there was quite a lot of, uh, negative, uh, energy and publicity around the way that a hero kind of eventually kind of wound down. How did you cope with with that kind of negativity in the previous 18 months? I'd always promised myself I wanted to be a comedian by the time I was 40. And so I'd done a comedy course in at the age of 39 and done my and had done a complete a stand up um I had been in a show and done stand up before I was 40 which was one of my goals of life. And I created this character called Dolores Clitoris. And she was ahead of her time in some ways and that she was, uh, dyke dressed a dark, a lesbian comedian dressed as a drag queen. So to get it out there. So I wore miniskirts and mid drifts and, you know, like that sort of apparel. And I talked about the difference between men and women, basically lesbians and gays, and also tried to prove that lesbians can have a sense of humour. We do have a sense of humour, but, you know, show that lesbians have a sense of humour. So I was out. I was starting to do a more and more performance of that. And during the hero 2001, I did a dating show with Buckwheat that people still laugh about. Steve Grey still hassles me about that, and, um, and as the duel we also instigated in the hero gala we done two before I think or two before, it was the third gala. So it was interesting because I was I performed as Dolores. But I also had the, um, opportunity to introduce Helen Clark as our new PM, actually, at the And we were at the, um, in the Civic in Auckland, which is a beautiful, huge theatre. There was about 1800. It was it was a large number of people, I think Civic 22. And I think we had 14 or 1600 people in the audience for the show that went on and on and on and on. It was about five hours long with the end. But what Our moments I I remember is standing on stage and introducing Helen Clark and feeling. And there was an immediate standing ovation. But feeling this wave of energy wall, I would almost say this wall of energy that started at the back and just waved forward just pushed forward until it hit you on stage. It was an amazing experience, like, yeah, we were really happy to be rid of Shipley. And then, but, um yeah, so that was sort of moment. So So what happened when all the negativity when it all the shit hit the fan and I was the public face of that stuff. Um, it was fascinating. The lesbians ran away and some would come to me and say, Oh, and I heard this stuff about you, and I know it's not true. And I know it's not like you. And I would say, Well, did you defend me and they go, Oh, well, you know, I thought I'd tell you Gay men were far more upfront. They just come and challenge me and talk with me about it and either walk away knowing a little bit more or choosing to stay ignorant or whatever position they held. But they would be upfront about it. I was absolutely assassinated by the media by, um Express, and what I did was I just stoically kept performing as Dolores for a good year and a half after it to try and put a different face on it. I didn't perform about Hero, but I just stayed out there. I have to say that the drag queens were amazing. They completely, um, shielded me or put me under their umbrella in the sense that they knew that some of them did actually know the truth and so wished to support me in that sense, So that's when I became a real drag A and the interest. The funny thing about that is that drag goes right back to my upbringing. In that it's it's like the same as amateur operatic. You work towards you conceive and work towards and perform shows. And that's where I'm very much at home and feel very at home around. So I really love doing that and, you know, recording some of it. And then I dropped Dolores for a while, like I just sort of after I had the heat sort of dissipated a bit, and I could just take a step back. It still hurts personally. Every time I read some of the misinformation about hero like Hero was badly managed. And this that and the next thing you know, we actually put on the best hero that was ever had. We had a face, amazing festival, a great parade and a great party that night, and it really saddens me that that achievement is never acknowledged. It's always talked about in the negative. Um, and I fought for years like, because what we did was we handed hero on to a, um, a community, you know, society. We created a society so that it was more open and transparent. But all of the people on that committee were harassed or hounded in some way by people with their own personal vendettas and stuff. You know, there were public meetings held ostensibly on the on the future of hero by some lesbians here. And I got so many phone calls I chose not to go it prudently. You know, like I just it wasn't a place for me to be like. I was still being blamed for everything. And I've heard many an anecdote and many an account that it was a positive meeting until people were prepared to move on. But then they were going, you know how to get rid of. They turned it personal, which made people get up and leave and not like it. The society really should have been, should have been allowed to flourish, and it probably would be here but again, personal vendetta. They just kept hacking and hacking because I still had something to do with the society and and and you can't divorce yourself of all of that institutional knowledge. Basically, why hand it over to a society was none of that prior knowledge. And, um, but some people just wanted me lynched. So I'm not saying it was my fault that the society collapsed because it wasn't at all. But nobody liked what became the stench of being involved with hero, Really? It it it carried you around. It followed you around one of the, um, really positive things that were happening around that time or just after that time in 2004 was the television production that you worked on. Am I right in saying that was like the world's first indigenous Takata Gay lesbian transgender programme? Yeah, it was. It was the world's first to be played on an indigenous channel. So, you know, Queer Nation, of course, had come a long way before. Um, but it was the creation of Maori television and is from front of the box productions. Um, he'd hunted me to produce for her the show. Um, and it was great, actually, um, it was a lot of a lot of work. We needed 5 to 75 to 9 sometimes, um, people on the show for each half hour each week. And so the real work was getting the talent or the people on the show without them having any reference as to what? How they were going to be represented or what the show was. Sort of like, Well, we managed that. We, um Yeah, we had a, um It was a great time. A hard, hard work, hard work. But I'm still called Auntie by a lot of the Maori out there now, when I walk into a room, there's Auntie Anne. Auntie Annie, Um, and I'm proud of some of the stuff we did. One of the things I'm really proud of was, um, we, uh, started coming out stories where we just had someone sitting on a chair telling their stories. Um, you know, we had some really, really positive. And it was nice to see the community rally again. It's hard. Um, ultimately, it's hard as a to be driving that sort of thing. Um, and in the end, you know, like you, you it was apart from my I mean, you know? Yeah, it was time for me to go when I finally went, nearly killed me, actually took me a long, long time to get some energy back after that. But I'm really proud of the shows that we put to air and the fact we made it to air and the fact that we made it for so little. We had fuck all money to a very small budget to work with. And isn't it amazing that in the space of, what, 2025 years, when you think of when you started in broadcasting to to actually being having a queer show on mainstream television? Well, yeah, Although Queer Nation broke that, I mean, and that was interesting because that really came out of when we tried Horizon Television when we tried to have local television here and they put on the local show, Um, and television picked it up. But it was also interesting the way television was able to squash it. Because Queer Nation, the community itself is starting getting a bit bored with it or whatever. I don't know. So the TV NZ pulled, called a, um, a focus group of all sorts of different people from the community, and used the feedback from that group which used it against us. The the feedback from the group was, we want something a little bit less tired or more vibrant or more challenging, but we still want queer broadcasting. But broadcasting turned around to poor Johnny and went well. They think it's tired and da da da So I'm sorry. That's dead. It's gone now and they've never They gave it to a straight company and we had Kiwi fruits, which he thought I know the guy who produced it. He thought that was the funniest thing he'd ever come up with. And it was a It was a tedious show you the thing I learned. And that's why it as well you have to come from a show like that and boys yawn when I say this. But the reality is you must have a level of politic around it for that sort of thing to work. If you don't have the politic, it just meanders nowhere. It just goes nowhere. And so, yes, we had politic around. I mean, I was delighted at putting together um, that we interviewed radical lesbian from the East Coast, who had a whole lot of photos of her standing with a and that was when Donna Ari was being super right wing and act. And so I was delighted to put to air pictures of Donna A as a lesbian protester just to remind her act party people that we should come or remind us lesbians of how far she sold us out. You know, like on that level? Um, no, I had It was it was great. It was really, um, up to Maori television for for doing it. Really. But the interesting thing is, I don't think it it's required right now. I don't know, I. I think we we were repeating too many stories. And still, even within doing that, there were stories that you couldn't touch because as much as you knew the story, you couldn't actually get the person involved or them to come on and talk about it. So there still is huge levels of homophobia out there, Um, and just hidden just slightly more hidden than what than the blat that we were used to. And when you say homophobia, is that like an internal homophobia or well, I think it's it's both. I mean, I think that there's a lot of like gay community, hasn't really, um, investigated its own internalised homophobia. But whenever I see gays behaving badly, that's what I put it down to, you know, like, but there is still just blatant homophobia out there, and unfortunately, you can start to see it in K Road right now when the hordes of people coming in from the south and the West and just have no respect and off their tits on some form of alcohol or some other stimulant. And there's a lot of violence happening up on K Road at the moment. And, you know, like I remember we did our first reclaim the night marches to sort of against violence at night where women could finally walk the streets safely at night. And it's almost to to to really you can't do that, but it's an aside, but it just maybe I said to someone recently, or maybe we have to have another reclaim the night march, But for gays to reclaim our very own street, you know, Kro has been synonymous with queer, um, culture for years for years because we are the We are the Red light district. We are the secret nightlife. Yeah, so this series is all about kind of making a difference in both kind of personal ways and and also in a kind of broader community, uh, base How? I mean, would you have any advice of if somebody said, Oh, how do I make a difference? You know, you can only make a difference. The only person you can really make a difference to is yourself and that saying the old feminist saying is still so true. The personal is political and you are So you shop, you know, like you. You take your dollar. If you don't like that shop, you take your dollar somewhere else. Or and And that whole, the whole is one of pit hate of mine is how the media screwed the term politically correct or PC. And that comes right back to that 1977 women's convention. And and, um, I know 75 women's convention in Christchurch, 77 77 Christchurch not look like that. Anyway, my pet hate is the corruption of the term politically correct. The concept of political correctness that I grew up with as a feminist was that if something challenged you, you looked inward at yourself to work out why it challenges you. And whether that challenge the feeling you have is valid and you should fight for that feeling or whether it's right to have been challenged. And maybe it's time to shift or to move. Not necessarily. Always paradigm shifts, but, you know, move the way you think. So it's always been a concept of the personal. So I now read in the media and the way people use it as an external box that if you step outside the box, you're stupid or stuff and it riles me. So in terms of making a difference, it is about that being be the personal is political. Stand up for what you believe in, do what you can for what you believe in. I mean, like, coffee probably wouldn't find to think of himself as a political person, but he did a huge amount for Rainbow Youth just by actually standing up doing something that he probably didn't realise the impact of at the time. But I've just been watching celebrity apprentice Cindy Lauper, giving her money to a really radical Stonewall gay group because her sister came out and she realised, what a hard time. So it just be who you are. Be honest, true to yourself and and that's how you will make a difference. If you see some homophobia, stand up to it. If you see racism, stand up to it like work it, you know, like don't just melt into the crowd and pretend that everything's OK. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. 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The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/anne_speir_profile.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089184. Anne Speir also features audibly in the following recordings: "Conference closing - AsiaPacific Outgames". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.