26 March 1986, New Zealand Parliament.
Mr SPEAKER: I am aware of the considerable number of amendments before the Committee and of the close similarity of many of them. For that reason I have asked the Clerk of the House, in association with the parliamentary counsel, to prepare a schedule of those amendments in an order that will allow a rational consideration of the issues involved in each amendment, if they are carried out in that order. The schedule will be made available to all members of the Committee. The House may not instruct the Committee on the matter, but I have asked the Clerk to have the schedule prepared and distributed to members so that they will know that all other members have that information in front of them.
In Committee Debate resumed from 19 March 1986.
Part I. Amendments of Crimes Act 1961 (continued).
DOUG KIDD (Marlborough) moved, That the question be now put.
The CHAIRMAN declined to accept the motion.
FRED GERBIC (Onehunga) moved, That the question be now put.
The CHAIRMAN declined to accept the motion.
PHILIP WOOLLASTON (Nelson) moved, That the question be now put.
The CHAIRMAN declined to accept the motion.
TREVOR MALLARD (Hamilton West) moved, That the question be now put.
The CHAIRMAN declined to accept the motion.
REG BOORMAN (Wairarapa) moved, That the question be now put.
The Committee divided on the question, That the question be now put. Ayes 55 Anderton; Austin, M. E.; Bassett; Batchelor; Boorman; Burdon; Burke; Butcher, Caygill; Clark; Cullen; de Cleene; Dunne; Elder, Fraser, Friedlander; Gair, Gerard; Gerbic; Goff; Graham; Gray; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jeffries; Keall; Kidd; King; Luxton; McKinnon; McLean; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Neilson; Northey; O'Flynn; O'Regan; Palmer; Prebble; Richardson; Rodger, Scott; Shields; Shirley; Smith; Sutton, J. R.; Tapsell; Tizard; Wilde; Young, V. S. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Noes 15 Austin, H. N.; Banks; Birch; Jones; Knapp; McClay; McTigue; Peters; Storey; Tirikatene Sullivan; Wallbank; Wellington; Young, T. J. Tellers: Braybrooke; Lee. Majority for: 40 Motion agreed to.
Hon. STAN RODGER (Minister of Labour) moved, in proposed new section 140A in clause 3, to delete the words "16 years", wherever they appeared, and to substitute the words "20 years".
The Committee divided on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. Ayes 17 Batchelor, Burdon; Gerard; Graham; Kidd; Luxton; McClay; McKinnon; McLean; O'Flynn; Richardson; Storey; Townshend; Young, T. J.; Young, V. S. Tellers: Austin. M. E.; Rodger. Noes 57 Anderton; Austin, H. N.; Banks; Bassett; Birch; Boorman; Braybrooke; Burke; Butcher; Caygill; Clark; Cooper; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Elder, Fraser, Friedlander; Gair; Gerbic; Goff; Gray; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jeffries; Jones; Keall; King; Knapp; Lee; McTigue; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Neilson; Northey; O'Regan; Palmer; Peters; Prebble; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Smith; Sutton, J. R.; Sutton, W. D.; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Tizard; Wallbank; Wellington; Wilde. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority against: 40 Amendment negatived.
Hon. GEORGE GAIR (Deputy leader of the Opposition) moved, in proposed new section 140A in clause 3, to delete the words "16 years", wherever they appeared, and to substitute the words "18 years".
The Committee divided on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. Ayes 20 Austin, M. E.; Batchelor; Elder; Gerard; Gerbic; Graham; Gregory; Jeffries; Luxton; McKinnon; McLean; O'Flynn; O'Regan; Smith; Storey; Sutton, J. R.; Wall; Young, T. J. Tellers: Gair; Townshend. Noes 57 Anderton; Austin, H. N.; Banks; Bassett; Birch; Boorman; Braybrooke; Burdon; Burke; Butcher, Caygill; Clark; Cooper; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Falloon; Fraser, Friedlander, Goff; Gray; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jones; Keall; Kidd; King; Knapp; Lee; McClay; McTigue; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Muldoon; Neilson; Northey; Palmer, Peters; Prebble; Richardson; Rodger; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Sutton, W. D.; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Tizard; Wallbank; Wellington; Wilde; Young, V. S. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority against: 37 Amendment negatived.
Mr TREVOR YOUNG (Eastern Hutt) moved to delete clause 3.
The Committee divided on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. Ayes 24 Batchelor, Braybrooke; Burdon; Cooper, Falloon; Friedlander, Gerard; Gray; Jeffries; Luxton; McClay; McKinnon; McLean; O'Flynn; O'Regan; Peters; Rodger; Smith; Storey; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Townshend; Young, V. S. Tellers: Richardson; Young, T. J. Noes 51 Anderton; Austin, H. N.; Austin, M. E.; Banks; Bassett; Birch; Boorman; Burke; Butcher; Caygill; Clark; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Elder; Fraser, Gair; Gerbic; Goff; Graham; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jones; Keall; Kidd; King; Knapp; Lee; McTigue; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Muldoon; Neilson; Northey; Palmer; Prebble; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Sutton, J. R.; Tapsell; Tizard; Wallbank; Wellington; Wilde. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority against: 27 Amendment negatived.
Hon. STAN RODGER (Minister of Labour) moved, in proposed new section 141 in clause 4, to delete the words "16 years", wherever they appeared, and to substitute the words "20 years".
The Committee divided on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. Ayes 17 Batchelor, Falloon; Gerard; Graham; Kidd; Luxton; McClay; McKinnon; McLean; O'Flynn; Richardson; Storey; Townshend; Young, T. J.; Young, V. S. Tellers: Austin, M. E.; Rodger. Noes 59 Anderton; Austin, H. N.; Banks; Bassett; Birch; Boorman; Braybrooke; Burdon; Burke; Butcher, Caygill; Clark; Cooper, Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Elder, Fraser, Friedlander; Gair, Gerbic; Goff; Gray; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jeffries; Jones; Keall; King; Knapp; Lee; McTigue; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Muldoon; Neilson; Northey; O'Regan; Palmer; Peters; Prebble; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Smith; Sutton, J. R.; Sutton, W. D.; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Tizard; Wallbank; Wellington; Wilde. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority against: 42 Amendment negatived.
TREVOR MALLARD (Hamilton West) moved, in proposed new section 142(6) and (7) in clause 5, to insert the words "subsection (1)(a) of" after the words "charge under". Amendment agreed to.
Dr BILL SUTTON (Hawke's Bay) moved, in proposed new section 142 in clause 5, to delete the words "16 years", wherever they appeared, and to substitute the words "18 years".
The Committee divided on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. Ayes 14 Austin, M. E.; Batchelor, Elder; Gair; Graham; Jeffries; Luxton; McKinnon; McLean; O'Flynn; Storey; Townshend. Tellers: Sutton, J. R.; Sutton, W. D. Noes 61 Anderton; Austin, H. N.; Banks; Bassett; Birch; Boorman; Braybrooke; Burdon; Burke; Butcher, Caygill; Clark; Cooper; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Falloon; Fraser; Friedlander, Gerbic; Goff; Gray; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jones; Keall; Kidd; King; Knapp; Lee; McClay; McTigue; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Muldoon; Neilson; Northey; O'Regan; Palmer; Peters; Prebble; Richardson; Rodger, Scott; Shields; Shirley; Smith; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Tizard; Wallbank; Wellington; Wilde; Young, T. J.; Young, V. S. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority against: 47 Amendment negatived.
PHILIP BURDON (Fendalton) moved to delete clauses, 3, 4, and 5, and to insert the following new clause: 5A. Defence to charges under sections 141 and 142— (1) The principal Act is hereby amended by inserting, after section 142, the following section: "142A. It shall be a defence to a charge under section 141 or section 142 of this Act if the person charged proves"(a) That the other party consented; and “(b) That the other party was of or over the age of 20 years or that the person charged had reasonable cause to believe, and did believe, that the other party was of or over that age." (2) Section 141(3) of the principal Act is hereby amended by inserting, before the words "it is no defence", the words "Subject to section 142A of this Act,". (3) Section 142(4) of the principal Act is hereby amended by inserting, before the words "It is no defence", the words “Subject to section 142A of this Act,”.
The Committee divided on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. Ayes 18 Austin, M. E.; Batchelor; Falloon; Gair; Graham; Jeffries; Kidd; Luxton; McKinnon; McLean; Rodger; Smith; Storey; Townshend; Young, T. J.; Young, V. S. Tellers: Burdon; Richardson. Noes 56 Anderton; Austin, H. N.; Banks; Bassett; Birch; Boorman; Braybrooke; Burke; Butcher, Caygill; Clark; Cooper; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Elder; Fraser, Friedlander, Gerbic; Goff; Gray; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jones; Keall; King; Knapp; Lee; McClay; McTigue; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Muldoon; Neilson; Northey; O'Regan; Palmer, Peters; Prebble; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Sutton, J. R.; Sutton, W. D.; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Tizard; Wallbank; Wellington; Wilde. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority against: 38 Amendment negatived.
Hon. FRANK O'FLYNN (Minister of Defence) moved to insert the following new clause: 7A. Savings in respect of Armed Forces(1) Nothing in this Part of this Act shall affect the interpretation or application of section 42(b) of the Armed Forces Discipline Act 1971 (which relates to behaving in a disgraceful and indecent manner), and any behaviour that would have constituted an offence against that provision before the passing of this Act shall constitute an offence against that provision notwithstanding the passing of this Act. (2) Every person who commits any act that, but for the passing of this Act, would have constituted a civil offence within the meaning of section 74 of the Armed Forces Discipline Act 1971 shall be guilty of an offence against that section notwithstanding the passing of this Act, and shall be liable to the same punishment as that person would have been liable to under subsection (2) of that section had this Act not been passed: Provided that, in the case of an act that, but for the passing of this Act, would have constituted a crime against paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 141(1), or section 142, of the principal Act, the maximum punishment that may be imposed shall be 3 years' imprisonment.
The Committee divided on the question, That new clause 7A be agreed to. Ayes 40 Austin, H. N.; Austin, M. E.; Banks; Batchelor, Birch; Braybrooke; Burdon; Cooper, Falloon; Friedlander; Gair, Gerard; Graham; Gray; Jeffries; Jones; Knapp; Lee; Luxton; McClay; McKinnon; McLean; McTigue; Muldoon; Palmer, Peters; Prebble; Richardson; Rodger, Smith; Storey; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Townshend; Wallbank; Wellington; Young, T. J.; Young, V. S. Tellers: Kidd; O'Flynn. Noes 36 Anderton; Bassett; Boorman; Burke; Butcher, Caygill; Clark; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Elder; Fraser, Gerbic; Goff; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Keall; King; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Neilson; Northey; O'Regan; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Sutton, J. R.; Sutton, W. D.; Tizard; Wilde. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Majority for: 4 New clause agreed to.
The Committee divided on the question, That Part I as amended be agreed to. Ayes 41 Anderton; Bassett; Batchelor, Boorman; Burke; Butcher; Caygill; Clark; Cullen; de Cleene; Douglas; Dunne; Elder; Fraser; Gerbic; Goff; Gregory; Hercus; Hunt; Isbey; Jeffries; Keall; King; Mallard; Marshall, C. R.; Moyle; Neilson; Northey; O'Flynn; O'Regan; Palmer, Prebble; Scott; Shields; Shirley; Sutton, J. R.; Sutton, W. D.; Tizard; Wilde. Tellers: Matthewson; Woollaston. Noes 36 Austin, H. N.; Austin, M. E.; Banks; Birch; Bolger, Burdon; Cooper; Falloon; Friedlander, Gair, Gerard; Graham; Gray; Jones; Kidd; Knapp; Luxton; McClay; McKinnon; McLean; McTigue; Muldoon; Peters; Richardson; Rodger; Smith; Storey; Tapsell; Tirikatene-Sullivan; Townshend; Wallbank; Wellington; Young, T. J.; Young, V. S. Tellers: Braybrooke; Lee. Majority for: 5 Part I as amended agreed to.
Part II. Amendments of Human Rights Commission Act 1977 Progress reported.
The House adjourned at 10.56 p.m.