TV One reporter and NewstalkZB host Tim Wilson A conservative talkback host has dubbed Statistics New Zealand’s new gender diverse category “nuts” and “crazy”, claiming it’s “dangerous” to legitimise people’s gender identity. Tim Wilson has since apologised - read more here Tim Wilson was solo on Newstalk ZB Friday Night show ‘The Two’ last night, with more liberal and more lgbti-friendly co-host Tim Roxborogh away. The devout Catholic claimed gender isn’t a “feeling”, but is a “fact”, saying “it’s not something you can decide that you feel like you are. You’re just made that way.” Wilson, who is also a TVNZ reporter, called the new category a “sex agenda” and compared trans people with people living in Invercargill. “But they don’t get their own category for Statistics New Zealand,” he said of the new category. “I think it’s nuts. I think it’s crazy.” He said he thinks it will just confuse people. “I think it will just encourage a whole bunch of uncertainty”, and said everyone has some discontent with their body – explaining he wishes he wasn’t so skinny. “I think to legitimise it is very, very dangerous for people with those concerns.” He stated “I don’t think this is actually the right way to go, because I feel it’s something that could lead other people into the wrong sort of mode.” Wilson referred to Caitlyn Jenner by her former male name and used male pronouns for her. He used the work of anti-transgender US psychiatrist Dr Paul McHugh to back up his beliefs – a man known as “the Mark Regnerus of transgender issues”. Dr McHugh claims being transgender or gender diverse is something based on an “opinion” without biological foundation and is “doing much damage to families, adolescents and children”. Callers weighed in. Ben called to say calling it a feeling was “a wrong way to put it”, and was quickly asked if he was himself transgender. He said he wasn’t but had worked with trans youth and tried to explain the basics of gender identity, and the challenges trans youth face as they are told to be something they are not. Co-host Tim Roxborogh, who was away on Friday, has posted a very different perspective Wilson responded by claiming statistics show trans people are “worse off” after gender reassignment surgery, something Ben said, if in fact true, would likely be down to how society treats trans and gender diverse people. Another caller, Brian, weighed in on “the transgender thing” to say “god help this country in 40 years’ time … I just wonder where everything’s going over time. I’m the old school and I just don’t understand all this carry on.” Wilson chipped in with “saying ‘hey you can be gender diverse’, I am not sure that can help someone who is a bit confused. Or who doesn’t feel comfortable,” leading the caller to respond “they’ll be Margaret today and Bob in the morning”. Richard called to say a lot of what Wilson was saying was coming from a lot if ignorance. “The term gender diverse is a blanket term, so it covers a lot of different words that people use to describe their gender.” He explained there is a difference between ‘what you are born with’ and ‘what you identify as’. “A good way of thinking about it is ‘sex is what’s between your legs, gender is what’s in your head’.” Richard was also questioned on his own gender identity. Jamie then called to say he was “probably going to piss a lot of people off” but “I think it’s a complete and utter joke” as you are either “born with male parts or you’re born with female parts”. He then went on to explain he was probably the wrong person to talk about the subject as he was against homosexuality as well. “I believe man should be with woman”, before admitting he was homophobic but claiming he also had gay friends, and adding “I don’t mind what you do behind closed doors, but just don’t put it in my face. Don’t put it on TV. I don’t want to see what you’re doing … it’s a heterosexual world.” Janetta was next on the line, to say they’d had some surgery many years ago, but changed their mind about the rest, and had only wanted to “be a woman” so they could “find a clean man” and wouldn’t “get HIV and AIDS”. They then realised they could use condoms and enjoyed the livelihood they made as a prostitute appealing to men who wanted to sleep with pre-op transsexuals. Janetta also claimed HIV was caused by malaria and botulism and could be cured by quinine, something Wilson quickly questioned the validity of. Other callers repeated their view that “you’re either a man or woman” because “animal species in this kingdom are either female or male” and dubbed it a “backwards move”, expressing concern “a whole generation will be saying ‘they can do this, I can be a male or a female’.” One said “people who have gone in that direction get laughed at more and more. This is why they’re suicidal and regret doing what they’ve done.” Wilson giggled with another caller about how they would never like to be gender fluid, suggesting she “have a go as a man, see how it works out” and said to another “some days I feel like a frog, but I don’t identify as a frog because it wouldn’t be helpful.” He also described intersex people as “hermaphrodites”. Trans woman Sarah called in to say she had gone through the longwinded process of getting her birth certificate changed. “Prior to that I felt in between, as most transgender people feel. Knowing that I actually changed my birth certificate as a female basically gave me a clear defining that I am now legally female, so my gender and my birth certificate match.” Wilson asked if she was planning to “erase your physical masculine side” and she explained some trans people have surgery, and some don’t, and she was happy living as a woman. He asked her to explain her comment that she “hated” living as a male, and she described she had been punished by her family for identifying as a female and being “different”. He suggested she build a bridge with her family now, and she made it clear while she forgives them she doesn’t need them in her life. Wilson tried to use McHugh research again, seeming to be about to point out unhappy childhoods have something to do with people being transgender, and Sarah pointed out the academic was transphobic, something Wilson said was “name calling”. Towards the ends of the night, some of the callers were more informed and understanding about gender identity. Then there were others who said trans people should be thrown into mental asylums – something Wilson quickly shut down – and another who called it “the gender bender thing” and if you’re not male or female “you’re just an it”, prompting Wilson to say “we can do better than that can’t we?” Adrienne, expressed disappointment with callers who were “stuck in the dark ages” in a country she thought embraced diversity. “People are very ignorant on this issue. People don’t choose to be transgender at all,” she said, pointing out there is much modern research in the area nobody had even raised. She said having recognition from Statistics New Zealand could be “life-changing” for some people and fantastic the nation is leading the way. “Do you know how many transgender people kill themselves because they feel so isolated?” She added, “I think we’ve all got to get savvy with our information and our science and just learn a bit more about what the facts are.” When Wilson raised McHugh again, she said “there’s facts - and there’s facts … people can study something for 40 years from a particular slant.” She said he was trivialising the whole thing with his talkback session, comparing being transgender to being like a frog or being from Invercargill. “There is no comparison.” Wilson responded he wasn’t trying to trivialise it. “I just wonder where it ends”. The talkback session went on till midnight, and also included much confusion from callers about the difference between gender identity and sexuality – you can listen for yourself here. Jay Bennie - 18th July 2015