Margaret Mayman has hosted her final service at St Andrew’s on The Terrace. As she leaves Wellington, she also leaves an indelible mark on our community, through her activism, approachability and compassion. We have a final chat before she bids us farewell. After 12 years at St Andrew’s the affable minister is moving to Sydney to be minister of the Pitt St Uniting Church. "I am excited about living in Sydney and working there, but also really sad to be leaving the St Andrews community and the wider Wellington community, which has been such a great place to work,” she tells GayNZ.com. Along with being senior minister at the Wellington church, Mayman has been a staunch advocate for equality and GLBTI rights, most recently through her work with the group Christians for Marriage Equality, where she consistently stood up to hatred and nonsense thrown our way with love and sense. And looking back, she lists her involvement in the civil union and marriage equality campaigns among the work she is most proud of. She loved the engagement with Wellington and with the politics of the nation. She thinks the nation has matured through the debates, pointing out that even when the likes of Colin Craig have been in the headlines, they’ve received plenty of published criticism. "The media here have been really good. I noticed a real change between civil unions and marriage equality - that the media has generally moved to a pretty gay-friendly state. All the interviewers I spoke to, they're not going to be right out there saying their own views, but I felt that they were supportive. At the start with civil unions it was a bit more like 'why do you want this?'. Now I think people get it." Mayman and Brockett at the marriage equality rally at Parliament, where Mayman was ill and Brockett read her speech on her behalf. Of course while those issues were about the greater good, they were also personal. Mayman recently celebrated a full wedding with her partner Clare Brockett, which was a little less public than their rather large civil union at St Andrew’s in 2006, which the entire congregation was invited to, along with family, friends and colleagues. “We felt like that was really our social and spiritual marriage,” she says. However the morning after the marriage equality legislation passed the couple awoke with a sense of how good it was for New Zealand, and decided they wanted to enjoy it themselves. They felt it would be better understood overseas than civil unions, and also on a pragmatic level, they needed a marriage to get full retirement benefits from the Church. “It’s kind of ironic that the Church, some parts of which don’t support marriage equality, actually made it very clear to us that if we wanted to be treated equally under this retirement scheme we had to get married,” she laughs. “So we did.” The wedding was a tiny ceremony, with just witnesses and a celebrant. “We’d already had a wonderful public affirmation and celebration and we didn’t need to do that again,” Mayman says. The couple has been together for 17 years and will of course move to Sydney together, along with Mayman’s son. The Uniting Church congregation she will lead in Sydney will be marginally bigger that St Andrew’s, but has similar liberal theology, and is a mixture of gay and straight members. "It's got that same sense of a gathered church, in that people come from all over the region to come to a church which speaks to them in terms of their theology and the way liturgy is done and the kind of community that's built up." It also has a commitment to being involved in the life of the city, something which is a big deal to the community activist in Mayman. "There aren't many churches like St Andrew's in New Zealand, so when I was thinking I have been nearly 12 years here and I probably should think about what next in my life, I thought 'I really don't want to go back to the suburbs'," she laughs. "It's really such a privilege to be in the middle of the city and be near where political things are happening, so I expanded my possibilities." Mayman has picked up plenty of tools to take across the Tasman, and is confident Australia will eventually have marriage equality, a battle she obviously has no qualms about entering into. As the Uniting Church “allows plenty of space for diversity”, she hopes it adds its voice to the public conversation. "It's kind of like the Anglican Church here, thinking about it, and if I can help in any way I'll be happy to do that." She is preparing for a more confronting, reactionary element around race and sexuality in Australia, saying in New Zealand if people have those kinds of views they usually keep them to themselves, or only speak about them in situations where they think others will agree. "Whereas I think in Australia there's not so much self-censorship, so it will be about learning how to respond constructively, but with some strength." It’s not just glbti-specific issues she has experience in fighting for either. Mayman has also been involved with pushing for Wellington City Council to introduce a living wage. She enjoyed working collaboratively on this with unions and community groups, a partnership she says is a good model for future community action. St Andrew's in its refreshed glory. "I'm also really proud of what we've done at St Andrew's in terms of restoring a building that was earthquake prone and disgustingly, depressingly grey and crumbly into a beautiful space that's able to be used not just for the church, but for the whole city." The property now has a hall and meeting rooms, and the venue is used often for various glbti community gatherings. Of course the congregation itself is a mix of young and old, gay and straight. Mayman believes having welcoming congregations like St Andrew’s is vital, as some of us are just religious beings. “If you're a gay person you shouldn't have to choose between your spirituality and your sexuality. I've just tried to witness that you can pay attention to both and that there's a community if people who support you." She is continuously amazed at how often people from religious backgrounds come out, saying it’s "such evidence" against the idea some people have "that you can't be Christian and gay." The church leader feels for people who are deeply indoctrinated, then realise they are gay, who then often get a message that they have to choose between faith and sexuality. "It's easier to give up your faith, because your sexuality is utterly core to who you are. I've met lots of people and heard lots of stories, and I think the important thing is that people get support and they're not alone." Mayman says while congregations like St Andrew’s are theologically liberal and have progressive liturgies, she's met some gay people who have much more conservative theology. They are used to a different worship style, and there are just not many places they feel they fit. "I wish there were more options for gay people. But for a lot of people what matters is that they feel they belong. We constantly have new people coming. And people from quite conservative religious backgrounds. I just sometimes think there must be something in the water in some of those conservative churches! God keeps calling people to awareness!" she laughs. She doesn't know who her replacement will be explaining the Presbyterians are so polite and diplomatic they wait until someone leaves before deciding on filling their shoes. The congregation will have a say however and as it's a strong progressive and inclusive church, the new person will have to reflect its values. Reflecting on her 12 years in the role and the social change she has seen, she hopes the next movement is in the area of equality and economic justice. She says the growing gap between rich and poor is terrible for the nation's social fabric. Mayman at her final St Andrew's service (pic thanks to Gareth Watkins) When it comes to the glbti community specifically, as we tick off rights here at home, she thinks we need to pay attention to what is happening to our brothers and sisters across the globe. "What's happening to people in African countries and some Asian countries - we really ought to think about solidarity and how we can get our government to be a voice for good, which they're not always, like going off to the Commonwealth meeting - when there are so many current Commonwealth countries where gay sex is illegal." Mayman says in some ways marriage equality is really important, and really symbolic, "but it's not the life and death issues faced by people in many parts of the world, just for being gay." Her final message for us all before she skips off to Sydney? “As we enjoy more rights, as many of us become more economically comfortable and feel at home in society, we must pay attention to not just blending into the mainstream so much that we lose our critical edge. “Marriage equality is really important, but so is respecting the rights of people who choose different kinds of relationships, or no relationship. We shouldn’t privilege gay marriage relationships more than any other relationships, or lack of relationship.” She finishes: “And that those of us who are comfortable in places like Wellington keep paying attention to kids growing up in places like Gore and Hawera, places where it’s still really tough. To not feel so comfortable we are not paying attention to those who are still marginalised.” Jacqui Stanford - 24th November 2013