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Hi. My name is Bella. Um, I usually she her pronouns and, um, yeah, I'm a trans woman, and I've been out for for 11.5 years. I just think about that one. Um, awesome. And so, uh, we had a day to talk about, um transform. Um, so when did you first get involved with Transform? Um, So when I first came out, um, I was seeing Marie as a counsellor, and money was supporting [00:00:30] myself and my family. Um, and we One of the things that Mary had talked about was transform was starting up and that it could be a really good opportunity for me. Um and so I started going along, and Dad was really supportive, and I was living in the hut at the time, and so he would come into the city and pick me up afterwards. And there was, um, an event in Palmerston North that he drove a whole lot of us to Palmerston north for and, um [00:01:00] yeah, so I started going, Yeah, when I was 11, and I just kept going until I was sort of old enough and didn't need the support. Um, and it sort of got more from support to social for me. So, yeah, How many people were involved when you first went? Um, there was a really small office in that AIDS foundation, and I think it was about five or six. and it fluctuated. So like when we were first in the AIDS Foundation, [00:01:30] it was packed, and it was a really small office. And then we moved to evolve and was on that little alleyway where the chocolate factory is now. Street? Yeah, yeah. Um, and they had their big room where there is a bar now, um, and we used to We met in there before it was a bar. And, um, that that was when there was maybe 234 of us, and some weeks there would be more. Some weeks, there would be less. But, um, yeah, I was [00:02:00] sort of always going because I didn't have anyone else trans in my life. That was the only, um, like, visibility. I really had, um but I was the youngest person by about 10 years. Um and then in general, LGBT like events, um, like a and things. I was the youngest person by, like, five years So wherever I went, I was just ridiculously the youngest. Um, which is interesting, because when you look at it now, [00:02:30] we have these really young kids coming out. Um, and there's so much more opportunities for them to come out and be themselves. So it's really interesting sort of sitting back and watching that huge culture shift, um, of how our community is sort of coming out and shifting and changing and growing. So, yeah. So you first went when you were 11. You? Yeah. And, um, it might have been 2008. [00:03:00] Um, so and when you say, it turns from kind of social support into being more social, do you think is that perhaps because as you got older, you were the same age as the others. Or I think for me it was more just that, um, I was much more sure of who I was and that I wasn't looking. I guess for that reassurance. And I wasn't looking. Um, I wasn't needing to be around. I wasn't [00:03:30] needing the support. Really. I was really just needing to be around people who were like me socially. Um, yeah, because at school there was no one else out. So I was the only one out. I was the only guy in the village. So, um, yeah, it was sort of a social opportunity. Um, So do you know why the group was formed? Um, I think that the group was formed because at the time, [00:04:00] there was schools out and schools out for a long time was really the gay group, right? That's where the gay guys went. And, um, that was their space. Um, and I think before my time, there was, um, transphobic stuff that was happening within that space. But, um, I don't think that that was sort of anyone's fault. I think when we look at it in the context of that time, it was not Trans issues were still not like a visible issue. Um, and they [00:04:30] weren't being highlighted. Um, you know, I think this is a few years after Transamerica had come out and we had a trans character, an ugly Betty who was played by a woman. So, you know, like it wasn't peak trans visibility. Um, so there was more a need for a group because there wasn't anywhere else for us to go. So Um, yeah. Had you met anyone who was Trans before going to transform? No. Yeah. No, it was transform [00:05:00] was the first time that I met. Um, Trans people, um I met Marie, and, um then I think it was maybe 2009 in, like, their holidays. I went to, um, um, which was organised by Elizabeth. And that was sort of my first time being around any, like, major queer people. You know, we're talking like a couple of 100 queer people in this. And, um, I think a lot [00:05:30] of people remember me from waking them up with pots and, like, running around in like a pink tutu might have gotten a name for myself. But, um, it was a really fun opportunity. And I think that was the first time that I really realised that there was a community out there and that it wasn't just me going alone by myself. Um, yeah. How did that feel to be? Um, it was really [00:06:00] exciting, and it was really reassuring. Um, to have that visibility to have that support. Um, and a lot of people were there to learn new things and to meet new people But for me, it was more just, um, an opportunity to be around people like me. Um, and to I think I ended up talking in one of the workshops as well. And that wasn't something that I had signed up for. But it was something that was important for those around [00:06:30] me, and it was just a really good learning opportunity. And, yeah, a reassuring moment for me. Yeah. So I guess you had already addressed that there weren't really any other similar groups before that one that were for trans people. Not that I'm aware of. No, um, there was, like nothing else was really brought up. You know, when you sort of searched for trans issues, you were sort of getting cross dresser and agenda and things like that, um, which are their own groups and they, [00:07:00] you know, for their own older people. Not maybe for an 11 year old. So, um, do you know what kind of did transform have any particular goals in mind when setting it up? Um, I'm not sure, because I wasn't really a part of that setting up phase, I think, um, as it grew bigger, or as it kept going? I think that it sort of, um there [00:07:30] was a lot more structure put in place around, you know, we'd have a social time, so that would be, like, board games. And then there'd be another time. The opposite time would be, you know, having someone come in and do a talk or education sort of thing. And, um, that was always really good. And yeah, there wasn't. Um I'm sure that there were goals and things, but that was not something that I was really aware of at that time. Fair enough. So what kind of, um, activities would you do? I can't really remember. I think [00:08:00] we used to do crafts. And we did, Um, we did, like round table discussions. And, um, I know that when I turned 13, they did a birthday party for me. They made me this beautiful, um, piece of art that has this big bee on it with butterflies all around it and and it it says It says it's got the big be in it. Then it says is for beautiful under it, and it's really beautiful. And it's one of my favourite things. [00:08:30] Um, yeah, I think it was really nice to have, like, another birthday party with, like, a second family. Almost. You know, um, how long do you think it took before they began to feel like a second family. Um, I don't think it was that long. I think that once we had moved to the new site, um, I felt very much like at home. I felt very comfortable. And I felt, um, [00:09:00] yeah, it just felt like what I needed, you know, And it just I would come in after school, and, um, I would generally be the first person there, and I could just sort of hang out and be myself and not have to worry. Um, I don't think I did any homework, which I probably should have done, but like, whatever. Yeah, more important things eat the food. But then I think when it moved when evolve moved over to the corner of [00:09:30] manners in Cuba, that's sort of when I stopped going. And I think that that was when I was around 15, 16. So, um, I just didn't have the need for it. You know, I sort of built up a social group at high school, and I had friends around me, and I, um, was in a sort of better place in my life. So, um, yeah, were any of, um So are you still friends with many of the people that you were in contact with and transform? [00:10:00] Um, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm still friends with a couple of them, Um, on the social media. Um, I'm trying. I don't think I really catch up with many of them anymore, though, Um, but not in a. Like, um, I hate each other just in, like, we're all busy working adults, so it's hard to find time, but, um, and he's in England, in Ireland, Scotland UK over the [00:10:30] other one. So but, um, we follow each other on the instagram and the and stuff so that that, like, with any intermediate school kind of you're still always friends, But, um, it just changes as you get older. So for sure, um, why did why did you feel, um, that transform was important for you personally, Um, it was important for me because it just sort of solidified that I wasn't this freak like I wasn't someone different. There was other [00:11:00] people like me that I could be who I wanted to be, and I, um and that Yeah, it just sort of affirmed how I was. And because you get that real negative rhetoric at the time, anyway, um, via the media and social media and even sometimes at school, that just sort of leaves you wondering and thinking, Um, so then you know, to have that one place where everything sort of reaffirmed it like, This is your space, These [00:11:30] are your people, and that's fine. And you're doing fine. You know, it's nice. That's awesome. Um, and so I guess, why do you think that transform was important? Just kind of all together as like, a space? I think, um, as time goes on, there will always be a need for somewhere like transform. There's always gonna be young trans people coming out who are so lost and have no idea where to start. But if their starting point is a group like transform, and then [00:12:00] it's a really important place to build that support network around them to learn in healthy ways, um, about all sorts of things that they need and, um, sort of have that connection within their own community that they may not have had else Where or, um, in other ways, particularly when a family is aren't supportive, then it helps to create that support network around them. Um, yeah. Were there any, uh, kind of memorable events or or moments that, [00:12:30] um when we went to Palmerston North, Um, that was really cute. So there was, um, Jack. Brian was on the Human Rights Commission. Um, and his partner was doing the assume. Nothing exhibition. Um and it was in Palmerston North, and so part of the Human Rights Commission was that they were going to organise a conference based around the exhibition. And so we went to talk about [00:13:00] transforming what that means And like, you've got to think that I was maybe 12 11 at this stage, and I was going to Palmerston North like Dad was dropping us off. And he was leaving like he was coming back the next day. And it was great. Like, I just remember, um, going to the supermarket, and they're like, you can get whatever you want and like you, telling like a 12 year old can get whatever you want in a supermarket is like mind blowing. You know, um, but Brooklyn was so good and so responsible, like no better. You know, [00:13:30] like you're not having three types of ice cream, you know, like so That's so cute. Yeah. Um and so, yeah, that was That was, I think, one of the one of the real memorable transform moments. And then there was the as well, the that was really, really lovely. Um, and that was where I first met Elizabeth and my family. My dad met Elizabeth as well. Um, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. [00:14:00] So they were the first main, like events that I really remember. And, um, I guess from transform that lead into doing other activism sort of work and speaking at other events. And there was the, um that happened in Auckland, which is done with the money that coffee had won, was dancing with the stars. And it was all And so there was a big bus of, like, trans women schools out people that, like, went up to Auckland [00:14:30] or whatever. And that was awesome. You know, like this. Yeah, I just remember, you know, a crack of dawn. It was like, 5. 30 in the morning, all getting onto this bus and just what was it? But a malady was playing. Then the Spice World was playing. And then the Rocky Horror Picture show, like all this, like real camp films. Um, yeah. So there was that, and yeah, just like, just like the small moments as well of just, you know, having a laugh and playing games. [00:15:00] And, yeah, it was really good. Really cute. I was wondering if you want to elaborate on what, um, assume nothing was what the Yeah. So I assume nothing was, um it was a really groundbreaking photography exhibition. Um, it was at the heart, and it was it travelled the country, but it was at the and it was in the museum as well. And, um, Rebecca Swan, [00:15:30] I think her name was She is a photographer. And, um, she was documenting trans intersex bodies, um, and was photographing them. And, you know, some of them were had writing on their chest saying, like, I'm not a monster and like, this is who I am. And it was, um it was sort of putting a face to the rhetoric that you hear in the media and the negativity that you hear and the lies that are said, um, so it was quite a powerful thing. And [00:16:00] when you think as well that this was, you know, like 2009, 2010 like this was unheard of to put like a naked trans person in a museum. You know, Um, yeah, it was I was really young, so it sort of went over my head. But I've got the the book with all the photos in it now. And now that I look at it as I'm older, I'm like, wow, like they did good to get this, like, you know, in, um such prestigious places. [00:16:30] So, yeah, and and so you all bust up the transform or Yeah. So Dad drove us sweat, and it was just packed full of trans people and like all of our luggage to Palmerston North, and he dropped us all off. And then, yeah, he came and picked us all up the next day, and it was just really cute. And you got to think dad was in the army, you know? He's like a real military guy. He's not anymore. But he was, and, um, he was always really [00:17:00] proud of it. and always really happy to support. And yeah, it was just He was really cute. So awesome. Yeah. Um, and you mentioned I. I didn't catch the name but another that you went to the Do you want to talk about that a little bit as well. So was in 2009. And I think that that one, I think that that was, like, maybe the second or the third. I think it had run before I had gone. But, um, that was with the I think it was in foundation [00:17:30] and there might have been another org. That's not around now. Um, and it was kind of like inside out that they have now, but not just for young people. Because, of course, the youngest person was me at 11. And then there was someone who was like, 16. And then everyone else was in their twenties. So it was, like, quite like a different age bracket. Um, and I honestly can't remember a huge amount of the content of it. I just remember that I because I was [00:18:00] so young. I had a private room with Brooklyn and Brooklyn's husband at the time. Um, and that like, of course, young person. I was up really early, and I was helping him with breakfast, and then, like, you're going to wake everyone up. And so I was like, Well, give me a pen and a wooden spoon and yeah, waking everyone up and I just think you're a little 12 year old. Don't really get mad. Yeah, Yeah. All the lights are on. Someone's going around like banging a pot. Yeah, [00:18:30] that was me. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other one was, which was, um that was up in Auckland. And, um, I don't really know what that one was about, either. I think that that was really an opportunity to utilise the money that had been raised for Rainbow. You, um, in a way that actually benefited all of the community and brought everyone together, um, to network to meet, to start conversations, to learn, [00:19:00] um, and yeah, so that was that was quite nice. That was, um, that one was really big, actually, because it was on a proper campground. So there was, like, bunk beds and stuff. Um, and I remember getting really angry, and I demanded a room change because they wanted to put me with. There were a lot of other, like, people who had young kids, and they were all in a room. And they wanted to put me in the room with all these kids. And I was like, I'm not a child in context. [00:19:30] It's like you've got to think that I hadn't been surrounded by kids, you know, like, I've been surrounded by all these other people. So I was a lot more mature, in a sense, um, and so I got put in with a couple of the schools out facilitators, and that was really cute, but yeah, it's like I'm not sleeping with these kids like moment. How old are you? Like maybe, like, 14. 15 When you're 14. 15, you don't want to be with them. I mean, like, they [00:20:00] were like, some of them were like young. Some of them were 13 12, you know, definitely in the age. Right. But because I hadn't been surrounded by that, like, for me, it was like, Who do you think I am? Like, I don't deserve it. Um, so, like, I guess reflecting back, um, what do you feel That, uh, has been transform's biggest achievements Um, I think Transform's biggest achievement is the fact that it's still going. I think [00:20:30] that through all the hurdles, um, having no sustainable funding is another big thing. The fact that it's still going coming into it, it's like 11th year is phenomenal, and I think that that is something that, um doesn't get enough recognition that it hasn't faulted over those 11 years. You know, there's been hurdles and it's been stressful, and there's been volunteer breakdowns because it's been so stressful. But it's still always had a space within our community, and it's always still been there to support people. [00:21:00] And it's always, um, yeah, been that hub. So, um, that in itself is a massive achievement. But, um, I think moving forward when council needs to look at more long term sustainable funding. And I think the government also should be held accountable for that. Um and yeah, so this well-being budget we'll see, but not holding out of my house. But hey, it's fine. We've got a rainbow crossing. [00:21:30] We don't have any money to pay for a venue. We can just sit in the middle of the road. Maybe they'll build us a trans umbrella that we can sit under when I was just sitting on the crossing cars like a political statement, but also like, Well, where else are we supposed to go like? This is supposed to make us feel safer. Didn't you say this was our space? [00:22:00] That's so funny. Yeah, um, I do. You think, um, I suppose maybe this is too big a question I was gonna ask. Do you feel hopeful that there might be any kind of kind of government support at any stage? Or do you think it's still, um I think it's interesting because I find a lot of the labour MP S are all talk. So, you know, they've always been there for our community, but now they're back in power, so I feel like they're not [00:22:30] quite as much as they were. But I think if the greens are still with us, then I have high hopes that they will, Um, I know that they've, you know, managed to get through a lot of what they've wanted to get through. And I'm sure that coming up to the next election, that that will be on their agendas, But I don't have high hopes for Justin Lester. I feel very much, um, like he's definitely all talk. Um, and it it's also the thing of you know, you can say [00:23:00] that there's funding for us, but when we say we need funding, that doesn't mean that we're gonna that we have the time and the resources to constantly be applying for funding grants that aren't actually going to do a huge amount, but also within then having to compete with other marginalised groups within the city. So, um, that's not sustainable. And, um, yeah, so it'll be interesting, sort of where it goes over the next two years with the different budgets and elections that are happening. Um, [00:23:30] yeah, like when you look at it as well in the sense of, like the community events that I've been to the elite ones, I'm saying in brackets because you know, So there's so many events in our community that are invite only. So then it's like it's community, but it's invite only so sorry you're not on the list, but so many of them. Um, you know, for years we always had our good old faithfuls. We had Jen, Louisa and Grant, and then in the last, like, couple of years. You really only see Jen. [00:24:00] You don't see the other two anymore nearly as much as you used to. Um, which is sad in a way that, um you know, we help sort of get them where they are. And now they're just sort of like, Well, I'm too busy for you. Whereas it's the Yeah, Jan is always there, you know? And she's always, um, whether it's a face or whether it's behind the scenes, she's always has that support. So that green wig, but not just like the green wig, but also, you know, like [00:24:30] at Xena's vigil, she was there, you know, like, that was not an event for her to publicise off. That was her being there for the community. And that's a really powerful, important moment. And that was the sort of thing that I would have expected. Like Grant to try and be at, You know, um and I don't think he was He might have been, but I don't think so. Do you want, um, just for the recording purposes? Say what zenas event was? Yeah. So, um, at the start of last year, 2018 was murdered and she was left in her car. [00:25:00] Um, and there was awful reporting done on it. There was, um, so much misgender. And there was, um it was just an awful, like, two months. I think it was. And in the end, no one was sort of talking about it. No one was acknowledging it. And, um, I'm a real believer and you can't complain if you don't do something about it. It's like when people are like, I don't like the government, But I also don't vote because I don't believe in it. It's like, Well, OK, you can't complain about it if you haven't, [00:25:30] you know, done something. So I had worked with the council to organise a vigil for people to come together and to grieve together and to acknowledge in a way, um, that we would be together. Um, and it was really difficult because one of the comments that really left me was one of the ladies from Saint Andrews on the terrace, and she was really upset, and she was like, This is the first year that we'll have someone from New Zealand to say on transgender day remembrance, and that was [00:26:00] really hard. Um, and it wasn't an event to come and to be a publicised event. It was an event for us to come together as a community, and Jan showed up to that and none of the others did. Um and you've got to think that there is a Rainbow Cross party caucus, right? Like there are rainbow members of Parliament that you would have expected some of them to show up, and they didn't. Um, the council was really supportive, and I don't think Justin showed up either. I think that he had something else happening. Um, [00:26:30] and the Dominion Post was terrible and they really wanted They had said to me the day before that they wanted to talk to family and stuff. And I said, Don't bother. No one's interested. We're not giving you any time to run any more shit like it's not happening. It was very aggressive. I'm real strict on this media. We're not giving you time of day. If you're not going to show that respect back to us, it's a two way thing. Um, but we were really lucky because Felix [00:27:00] was there who was a part of our community and is now working at the Dom Post. And, um, he was like, I just want to, you know, take some photos and do some interviews, if that's OK. And I was like, of course, like, I'm here to support that, um, but then there was also, like, the like, a really high up manager at the Dominion Post was there, and I told him to fuck off. I was like, We don't want you here. Family doesn't want you here. You can leave. Um, [00:27:30] and then the next day, Felix's article and the photos and Zena was like front page, and it was all properly gendered. And it was like we have waited, like, two months for this to happen, and it was finally there, and it was, um yeah, it was really powerful. And it was really important. So and I think Lena had actually attended, transform or had, you know, seek out that support via evolve. So yeah, good on you standing up to the dom post. I mean, it's not the first time I'm pretty aggressive [00:28:00] with media. Um I think the day before the youth ball, when we first did the first Wellington Pride Youth Ball um, someone from one news called and they're like, Hey, we really want to interview some trans people about how awful their school balls were and how this will be better. And I It's like, OK, so that's not happening because you can't just come. But you would think that we had two weeks full of, you know, first time youth events. We had 12 youth events that had never happened before, including, like a private walkthrough of an exhibition at the City [00:28:30] Art Gallery and Drake Queen Story time. And now you're coming to us on the very last day saying, You want to do something with a sad spin not happening If you really want to be supportive of our community, you could have come two weeks ago and you could have said We want to highlight the positives that you're doing and the volunteers in the car were like, Oh, my gosh, I like It was peak stress, like I had only just been confirmed the budget for the ball that morning, and it was happening the next day. [00:29:00] Um, and we still had so much to do and get ready, and I had just finished work early to try and get a lot of it done. And then this person called and she was so cheery, and I was like, No, not happening. So, um yeah, and they have a history of yelling at me. Be proud of awesome. Um, I have one last question. Um, and [00:29:30] how do you think that things have changed for trans youth over the last 10 years? Um, I think it's changed significantly. So I think that, um, internationally, it's changed. We've got so much more digital support as well. Um, and with groups like transform, there is the opportunity for trans people to come out at such younger ages. Um, and there's more education for their parents and their families as well, because I think that that was sort of one of the biggest hurdles [00:30:00] was that we were dealing with a generation that excuse me, had never experiences. They never understood this, you know, they have had really only sort of heard about the radical gays from the eighties, you know, um so, having trans people, they that was a whole new ball game for them. Um, so with the education and understanding and their positive visibility, it's meant that our trans young people have been able to come out be themselves, Um, and also just the labels that people use [00:30:30] and the pronouns that people use. And, um, it's all just shaped and grown in such a beautiful, big, supportive way. There's still, um, a huge underlying issue of the turfs. Um, do you want to explain what is? Um, yeah. So the trans exclusionary radical feminists who, um, their sort of views are that trans women aren't real women and that they're just women pretending to infiltrate men's spaces. Um, and that, um, trans [00:31:00] men are just lesbians that have been coerced by said Trans woman um, lesbian, like we support their choices. We just immensely disagree with them. Um, and I, I don't think that they fully grasp the harm and the hurt that their messages portray. Um, and yes, I think having these feminist exclusionary people, [00:31:30] um, it's a really big underlying issue. But I'm going to put my own horn for a second. And last year I got the opportunity to meet the Duchess of Sussex, me and Michael, and it was a part of an event that I was there with rainbow youth. Um and I was like, you know, it was set up in a way that you were going to meet one of the Royals, right? And so Francis, from Rain Youth was like, OK, what are we going to talk about? And I was like, Well, OK, this is my second event, like with the Royals. Like [00:32:00] I went to Government house and I heard her speak about her feminism and all of that and how important and empowering it is and stuff. And so I was like, What we're going to talk about is we're going to talk about if we're going to talk about feminism, that that includes Trans Woman and that, um she acknowledges that in both England and New Zealand, there's a huge uprising of trans exclusionary feminism at the moment. And they were like, Oh, yeah, yeah, whatever. And so then Megan came over and she was like, So tell me about the work you do. And I was like, Let me tell you, and I was like, [00:32:30] um talking about how you know at the moment in England and New Zealand, we've got such a large uprising of feminism that doesn't include trans woman and she grabbed my arm. And she's like, Oh, my gosh, I was hearing about this, and I was horrified. Tell me more. And I was like, Oh, here we go. This is perfect. So, um, knowing that the Royals are on the same board as us makes me feel a little bit more hopeful in the, um, ways that we talk about [00:33:00] feminism, Um, and that it is a really big issue. But at the same time, it's a really small vocal minority that just happen to have a lot of money in power, which is disappointing, but, um hopeful. Yeah, awesome. Well, um, do you have any other thoughts about anything that you want to talk about now, or, um, no, I don't think so. I think that pretty much, um, sort of sums up transform and yeah.
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