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Gay people don't kiss. They don't touch each other. They just they just meet, meet each other anonymously. They don't even know each other's names. And they have anal sex all the time. And and they have approximately 400 sexual partners per year, and they have unsafe sex all the time. And they're all full of diseases. To me, the stereotypical gay person was a stage sneaky or vicious, [00:00:30] brittle, unstable. The first. Yeah, I remember watching a film called Blackmail and it concerned a barrister in England. Uh, he was He was certainly married, and he had a family, [00:01:00] and he was involved in a in a murder, and and he himself wasn't involved in it. But I think what happened was he had, uh, picked up a young man somewhere in London who was gay. And they had, uh, gone off together. Uh, and of course, his wife didn't know about this. And then, uh, I think the guy was killed or murdered, and he then started to receive, uh, through [00:01:30] the mail, sort of a four size envelopes with these large photographs of him. And there were photographs of him, Uh, with this with this boy this with this young man. Rather, And whoever it was that was sending him the photographs was blackmailing him because, of course, it was set in the time. I think it must have been set in the fifties or the sixties. Of course, when, uh, being gay or at least, uh, doing homosexual acts was illegal in Britain. And of course, his family didn't know about [00:02:00] it. And he stood to lose a lot because he was an eminent barrister and so on. So, uh, that I remember, was the first I'm pretty sure that was the first thing I saw on television or or or or on film, uh, about somebody being gay. And I remember watching it with my mother. And I remember her turning around to me and saying to me, I hope you're not homosexual. Mm. [00:02:30] What is my identity? That that that's part of my problem. My identity tends to change according to to the people I I have around me, Um, I. I don't know if that's generally true, but but it's certainly part of my makeup there that I tend to reflect what's given to me by by other people, I think, as a boy. I had a lot of [00:03:00] fear and anxiety. Um, and I think some of that relates back to what one was presenting to the world. Um, about being a boy about being a boy and about doing things that boys did, and about kind of boys activities and [00:03:30] approaches to the world. Well, when I was growing up, I guess the the images of being gay were on the whole a lot more negative. Um, they certainly weren't encouraging you to. Well, even if you could choose being gay, you wouldn't choose it because it was really a, um, a lifestyle of derision and comedy. Um, all the characters you saw in sitcoms, for example, who were gay were always people [00:04:00] who were lim, uh, had high squeaky voices. Um, squealed, shrieked, screamed, uh, generally very effeminate. Um, and with the butt of everybody's jokes. And of course, there are always jokes about fags and gays and so on. And and that kind of person always seemed to to be on the short end of of of that sort of joke in so far as people who weren't in comedy. Uh, there simply [00:04:30] weren't that many. You. You see the odd film, uh, which deals with homosexuality in a in an overt way. But again, they're they're pretty. Um, I don't know if they're negative or positive, but but but they're certainly pretty sort of wrenching movies. And I'm I'm thinking of movies again as the one I mentioned before, uh, of blackmail. But there are some other movies that there's a very good movie called Boys in the Band, Um, which is a 19 seventies movie. And it is [00:05:00] all about a party, um, at, uh, a guy's apartment in New York, and he invites a whole lot of, um, acquaintances around. And they're all different types of personality. They're all gay. Um, but nobody's ever happy in it. Unfortunately, and and you kind of finish this movie not feeling depressed, but, um, thinking, gosh, what a sort of sad bunch of people they are. If you're treated as as being ok [00:05:30] and normal and, um, healthy, then then you would almost act that way. Um, that once people continuously tell you that that that your natural feelings are wrong Well, how do you cope with that? I have a very strong, um memory, I suppose of some kind of composite picture in my mind about what a gay person was. And I guess reflecting back the closest I can make it akin to would be a kind [00:06:00] of Kenneth Williams, kind of, uh, character, but probably even a bit wetter and more pathetic. Hello? Oh, how are you? You know, things like that. Oh, all very nasal and oh, hello. I don't know where that, uh, picture came from, and I don't identify it with any kind of known person because, to my knowledge, I'd never met another gay person. [00:06:30] But it was carried around as a kind of image in my head, um, with a lot of, um, you know, and it was a very negative image, obviously, but also a lot of fear around it in terms of not being like that, you know, not fear that I might be like that. And, um, a lot of energy, I think, went into, um, being [00:07:00] not like that. If I think back into my earlier years and I'm thinking now, I suppose I would become aware of of, um, gay issues in in the late fifties sixties and the only person that that that I can think of off the top of my head is, um uh, Kenneth Williams, who was, um [00:07:30] he he he presented a sort of characterization that that that that it was never actually stated openly that that it was a gay character, but to to those that that that knew the kind of innuendo that that went on, um, it was so obviously gay that that it was untrue. But with him, the it was a stereotype. It was kind of, [00:08:00] you know, gay, hysterical, bitchy queen kind of thing. That was what I knew that gays were like and I was terrified of being like that myself. So that was not that was really not what I wanted to be at all. So that put me off for for a long time, um, wanting, you know, the idea of being gay and being like that was completely repulsive to me. I guess people that were lonely and maybe [00:08:30] a bit sort of screwed up. Not altogether. Um, just weird. Different, um, guys that wanted to be women, I guess. You know, um, guys that dress up in women's clothes all the time and and talk like women and act like women and, um, one of the head hairdressers when they grow up and people that are, like, puffy and can't whistle and don't play sports and yeah, just negative. Negative, negative. [00:09:00] Negative. Um, every time I saw that word, it was just scary and and awful. I remember spending endless hours when I was around about I must have been 11, 12, 13 around that age, I guess. Watching television quite late at night. I I used to sit up and watch the Sunday horrors, which was one of the things I managed to persuade my parents into letting me watch. And, uh, among the films I watched quite late at night were, uh, I. I tried to watch every movie I could that I thought possibly might have somebody in it [00:09:30] who was gay or or or or or um, homosexual. And it was, um, it was It was quite interesting because, of course, a lot of the movies didn't have anything that they they seemed to have storylines which might be leading that way. But I, I guess what I was sort of screaming out for or crying out for, uh was to have a gay character with whom I could identify because, uh, it was very difficult. I mean, there weren't films, uh, with gay characters, and I mean [00:10:00] all all all the gay people you saw in films were sort of, you know, pink handbag, um, swinging people in dresses and so on and so forth. And it was I knew that wasn't me. I knew that wasn't what I was all about. And And I guess the only thing I could identify with at at a very early age was the sexuality part of it rather than the lifestyle. Because there was nothing when I was growing up, Um, and and certainly in my early teenage years of people who were gay and it was OK, [00:10:30] and they lived, uh, normal lives or or or whatever lives they wanted to live, I think at that time there was some warning bells going off there somewhere, saying, um, you know, this could lead to trouble or this is not right. Or, you know, this isn't how things should be. Everything I'd ever heard or seen about these homosexuals was was negative. Um um I knew. I just knew it was a bad thing. Um, I [00:11:00] don't. I can't work out how I knew. It must have been almost a subconscious thing that it was never ever talked about. Um, no one even talked about it in a positive way. Um, people at school would, if you did something which was maybe considered to be a bit sissy or or not was expected of a of a man or a boy or a or a male. Um, that was sort of labelled as as a homosexual act. Um, whether it be if you tripped over or if you, um I don't know if you weren't weren't gonna go [00:11:30] and play rugby or or if you maybe, Yeah, it was, um, always a negative term. And I I knew that it was sinful and a moral according to the church and and just Yeah, the only images I had were were people that men who who just wanted to to, like, have sex with other men and, like, public toilets and in parks, and they used to go and pick each other up in bars. Um, almost people that were screwed up [00:12:00] in terms of not living a proper lifestyle, which I thought was, um you know a man and a woman living together, um, in a house in suburbia somewhere with, you know, with two kids, a cat and a dog and and a car. That was sort of the only image I had of, um, how How people were meant to live your life so that when I sort of started realising I wasn't going to fit this this model, which is the only way of life that I knew of that was quite scary. Um, [00:12:30] and I I do remember I would have been, I don't know, 14 or 15. And I, I made a decision once that I would just, um, pretend to like a woman and get married and have kids and, you know, have a 9 to 5 job and just sort of, um, go and secretly relieve my urges with other men, I guess, and just sort of meet them in secret and and just sort of deal with it that way. I always saw myself [00:13:00] as quite different. I saw I didn't see myself in that swishy way at all, actually, And, uh, as I got older and I, I met other people like that I. I certainly didn't find them sexually attractive at all. I was always attracted, of course, to, you know, the 1st 15, and, um, big Butch boys. Uh, and in fact, when I left school, so I was 18. Um, my first [00:13:30] sexual experience was getting picked up by by a Nancy boy real fey creature in a public toilet in Plymouth, which was, um, a horrific experience, one that scarred me for years because it was, you know, I was desperately curious and horny, I guess, and I wanted to know if this is what I was. And if this is, um, something that I would find and then and it would be, um, attractive and interesting to me and you know, [00:14:00] all those things. And, um, he took me back to his place, and it was I just I remember just shivering and fear and repulsion, but kind of letting him do things to me because I just wanted to go through with the experience and was probably too scared to leave anyway. But it was, um that was horrific to me. And I didn't have sex for years and years after that. So I suppose all those those years of those um, [00:14:30] kind of feminine caricatures had obviously sleep in there. And, you know, I was very prejudiced against them. I think I had this funny idea, sort of really irrational idea that if I admitted to myself or to the world that I was gay, I was somehow overnight going to turn into this strange kind of, um that I was going to undergo some major personality shift and [00:15:00] that suddenly overnight, I would become this kind of weird, uh, combination of characteristics and attributes that I I had sitting in my head as what a typical homosexual gay person was. And I remember when I was at school being teased as a child or as as a young teenager for being gay. And people used to say to me, You're gay and I. I don't know if the kids really knew what it meant, but Children have [00:15:30] this peculiar way of picking on, I guess, weaknesses or or or things that are different. And certainly as a child, I was as a as a young boy. I was perhaps a bit different to some of the other kids, although, uh, looking back now, not a lot different to to some of the other kids there. But, uh, certainly what happens is you You get a group of Children and you get the strongest among them who end up being bullies but also end up influencing [00:16:00] the people who are easily influenced. And they end up picking on, uh, who they perceive to be the weakest in the group, or somebody who's different. And, uh, I was teased to to some extent and and what that meant for me was because there was no assistance for me in the media. Nothing which said to me, Hey, it's OK to be gay. It's all right if you're like this, I ended up developing certainly when I went to high school uh, quite a different persona, so that by the time I did come [00:16:30] out to my friends, when I was about 16 or 17 at school, they were surprised, not shocked, but certainly surprised that I was gay because I had spent a good three or four years turning their minds off that so that they wouldn't think I was gay, because that was the only way I was not going to be teased. I couldn't when I was 13, say Yes. Well, so what if I am gay? Um, that's all right, isn't it? It just didn't work like that. I. I had [00:17:00] to create a situation where people thought well, either they didn't think about it at all or they didn't think I was gay. I think the way I sort of dealt with being gay was was when I was at university was to go and search out all the information I could on this homosexuality thing. I'd just go to the computers in a dark corner and type in gay into the computer. Um, being really nervous in my hands, shaking, typing in those three letters. And then I just go and look at go to the gay section and [00:17:30] and look at the books and I'd I'd I'd take about five out and sit in the corner and just read the whole books, you know, cover to cover one after the other. And it it used to take hours. And I used to go several nights a week until I sort of read everything I could. And I'd look at the pictures if they had pictures in them and and try and relate to the people in the pictures and try to think, Oh well, he looks normal. So maybe it's not such a bad thing. I remember being on a holiday with my parents once when I was in my early teens and [00:18:00] going to the islands and stealing that book everything. You always want to know about sex but were afraid to ask from a bookshop and taking it with me to a public toilet across the road from the bookshop and devouring it, especially that went straight to the chapter on homosexuality. I suppose it would have been 13 or something at that point, and, um, I mean, you know, it's quite a negative thing. It's it's really full of lots of very negative. Um [00:18:30] uh, you know, stuff about about being gay and and what the gay lifestyle is all about. So I was fascinated by that, but obviously it was, you know, disturbing to me as well. I can't really remember the details, but it was It was a lot about I seem to remember, you know, um, it's the whole promiscuity thing, you know, things that peop people and anal sex and things that were [00:19:00] described in a way that was sort of vaguely disgusting, but with a slightly liberal standpoint on it, Um and you know, the idea of, you know, multiple sex partners and not being able to find true love and being desperate for sex. And there's all these sort of, um, ideas that really I didn't really want to hear either, that I just believed them. And that's just I knew that this man was an expert and must all be true. [00:19:30] I suppose the the the most striking thing that that that I've observed it is when a gay character has come into a mainstream kind of programme. And I think that that happened with, um, Billy Crystal in that, um, stand up of of soap operas called soap. [00:20:00] Um, I think that that that was kind of a landmark occasion. You see, the the there's always been material around if you want to go and get it, um, both on film and and, um in books. And it's just a matter of of knowing where to go and and, um and pursuing that that sort of line. But for it to to enter the the mainstream, as [00:20:30] it did in in So, um, even then Billy Crystal played that character as a totally natural person. It seems to me that every gay character, um in in in the film in the movie is portrayed to appeal to straight people, um, as opposed to maybe being a role model or being a gay person that that gay people could actually relate to and think, Oh, that's quite realistic or wow, what a really cool [00:21:00] person or whatever. They just seem to just cheapen cheapen the whole thing about gay people. In most programmes, you wouldn't see gay characters doing the things that you not only see but expect straight characters to do. You never see the kissing, the touching, the stroking, the rubbing, that hagging. Um, the licking. Um, you never see any of the the really You never see the best parts of sex. If you saw gay people on in films [00:21:30] or on television, I mean, you, you you very rarely saw them on television. They certainly weren't touching other gay people. I mean, there there was no there was no sexual contact. There was nothing overt about the person. It was fine to have a gay character, it was fine to have a gay person so long as they didn't do anything. And I suppose all these things just reinforced in my mind. Um, what? [00:22:00] I grew to believe that being gay was all about, really, which was pretty much a tragic lifestyle. It was something, you know, you really didn't want to tell your parents because you know how upset they'd be because, um, you know, you you of all those things. You you weren't going to have that warm family environment with Children. And the chances are you'd be some, um, lonely, old, tragic thing that everybody despised. And, um, [00:22:30] I mean, it's just the idea of of I think a lot of it was about being alone and furtive and scared and, uh, and weak and a victim. I think a lot of it was all about those things. And there was no no concept of of love and respect and things which took me quite a while to learn that that [00:23:00] was possible as well. Trouble is about, um uh, presenting gay gay characters on stage or in film or in books. Um, a lot of what What came about in in probably my formative years was, um came through the the the American, um media and America to To [00:23:30] to me has never really reflect what what's been natural in in New Zealand, um, to to be gay in in America. You, you, you, you, you've got to form a political kind of stance. It's a political thing just as much as a lifestyle thing. The other film, which I think has had a profound effect on me, was Torch Song trilogy, uh, which I didn't see until I think I [00:24:00] was around about 18. It was when I moved to Wellington and went to university. And, of course, that's an incredible film. II. I watched that a number of times, and I and I think I bought the video of it and I. I kept watching it. I haven't seen it for a couple of years now, but I always enjoy it whenever I do get to see it. And that was probably the first film that was, uh, not only unashamedly gay, um, but it it it. It portrayed gay people as being, uh [00:24:30] able to live as normal and and and lead as normal and happy lives as anyone else. And that was very refreshing. I mean, it's it's a sad story, of course, because, um, one of the main characters, uh, played by Matthew Broderick dies. Um, and and that is very sad. Um, he's he's beaten up by a bunch of thugs in New York. Uh, because they they live in the village. Um, but, um, by and large, I mean, the the the film is very good, and it's and you come out of [00:25:00] it, um, feeling sort of sad, but and contemplative, I suppose. But also thinking that yes, I mean, this is this is the nearest I've seen to to what could be real life, I guess. And, uh, it it makes you feel very good about yourself. I mean, there's there's, there's no apologies. It's just it just is what it is. I guess I remember reading in the evening post last week of of two gay guys living together, um, in Park. And, um, I could really relate to that, um, [00:25:30] in terms of Well, that's pretty normal to me. That's the kind of role model or model that I would have liked to have seen when I was a lot younger. It's about seeing something which you can identify within your own life, Um, reading something that you can identify with you in in your own life and and I guess the beauty of watching it on a movie or reading it in a book. Is that it? It again? It's confirmation that it's OK. It's fine, it's It's normal for you and and and nobody minds about it tonight. [00:26:00] Come, please.
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