This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
No. Um, first and foremost, it's my privilege to be able to thank those who have opened the door, set the scene and prepared the space for us today, beginning with that. Fantastic. The welcome From last evening. Um, And with today's opening proceedings and speakers, uh, I've had a chance to reflect on some of the messages that we heard last night, and they were [00:00:30] profound. Um, Renato, you talked about the need to continue to work on being together, taking strength from each other. Uh, and you warned about the consequences of fragmentation and isolation. Really, really important message. Jan, You gave voice to some of the realities of being together, and you spoke with humour and passion about those realities. And, um, I think just about everybody [00:01:00] in the room resonated with what you were talking about about the challenges that we face being together and that we need to surpass or that we need to meet. So these things together with that offered by the support of, um, made for, in my view, an inclusive and an uplifting beginning to our time together. So thank you all very much for last evening. And [00:01:30] in fact, for the report back this morning, Um, on the other, um, meetings that have been held prior to us gathering today. This session is entitled speaking out proud. It's a session where issues voiced by the LGBTI communities the out communities are listened to by a cross-party group of parliamentarians and the session is being facilitated by the Human Rights Commission. Secondly, I'd like to acknowledge the arrival of you all, uh, to this open [00:02:00] hearing on LGBTI human rights issues. Without all of you, this could not happen without submitters. It can't happen without an audience listening. It can't happen. And without our parliamentarians here, it's not gonna happen. And particularly, uh, on behalf of all of us here, I'd like to offer our thanks to and the conference organisers for allowing this session to take place in the context of a conference. Um, that is really, really important. Um, I'd also [00:02:30] like to acknowledge that the expertise and the knowledge in the room here not just here in the panel but here amongst, uh, the people that are sitting here in the auditorium. I'm not gonna pick out individuals by name. Um, but you all bring something. You're all very special. And many of you have critical roles. Um, in our, um, individual and in our collective lives. Thirdly, I'd like to offer our warmest greetings to [00:03:00] our panellists, Uh, to my right, it's not Jen Lo. This is Kevin Hay from the Green Party of A in New Zealand. Please give me a, uh, a bit of applause as I We have a New Zealand Human Rights Commissioner, Dr Jackie Blue, Larissa Wall, New Zealand Labour Party [00:03:30] from the New Zealand First Party, David Seymour at New Zealand. Thank you all very much for agreeing to be with us. Um, we were disappointed that a national MP was unable to get leave from the house to attend our panel. However, we do understand the constraints that would have led to this decision. It's anticipated that the panellists present and the various government officials who received the report from today's session will be able to advise the government [00:04:00] on the steps that are deemed critical to making that commitment a reality. The commitment that, um, the government made, uh, after the, um, U PR recommendations came back with, uh, no mention from the state parties, states parties, uh, making recommendations around human rights for sex orientation and gender identity. At that point, the government made a statement that they were committed to an ongoing ongoing dialogue with LG LGBTI communities as part of their civil society engagement [00:04:30] on the outcomes of the U PR and so panellists and, uh, officials will be encouraged to, uh, continue to remind the government that that commitment is still there. Um, next and but certainly not least, I'd like to, uh, thank those who have taken the time and the opportunity to make written submissions to the hearing process. Those who are also prepared to make oral submissions a bit later on and [00:05:00] they're going to speak to, uh, those just a little bit later on. So I'm not going to name those people. You'll see them as they come up. But please give them a round of applause, and it also gives me great pleasure to acknowledge and introduce our team from the Human Rights Commission. I'm not sure Cynthia was going to try and come down, but I haven't seen her come in and know, uh, she's not going to be able to be here. So our CEO and the chief Commissioner uh, send their [00:05:30] regards. Um, chief Commissioner is just about to head off to Geneva. Um, and, uh, won't be able to come down, and the CEO is not going to make it. But we do have, um, the leaders of the sexual orientation gender identity portfolio within the staff team at the commission. Dr. Jill Crisp up here. Uh, hiding in the back row supervisor from the staff and one here to my left. Yeah, Thank you. And also, um, [00:06:00] the this fabulous person that we've imported directly from Auckland for this morning. Uh, Sean Moody, our social media specialist. Yay! Yeah, twittering like mad. So, um, can you tell us what hashtag we? We're doing these on shore. Same one, the conference one. So he's tweeting to the conference hashtag the things that are going on, uh, in this session. So welcome, Sean. And it's great to have you down here as well. I have [00:06:30] the honour of being the panel chairperson today. My name is Richard Tankersley. I'm a part-time commissioner with the Human Rights Commission. I'm based in Christchurch. Um and I have designation, uh, for the sexual orientation gender identity portfolios within the commission going to sit down about now, having done the welcome and introduction. But like to, um, now explain the presentation process. People that are [00:07:00] going to submit will present to the panel their priority issues each slot. We've, um, allocated 10 minutes to that slot for the presentation and and any questions. And so when people are presenting, they'll have about five minutes to present to the panel, and then they'll be invited to answer questions from the panel. We'll give you a warning ballot four minutes. Um, now you may not use all that time to speak. Um, but it's, uh we do want to make sure that [00:07:30] the panellists get a chance to, um to feedback or to check on some of the things that you're telling them. Panel members have had the opportunity to read the written submissions that have been given. And as I said before, in addition to the prepared submissions, there will be some time for submissions to be made from, um, on an oral basis. Uh, the time allocation for those will, of course, depend on our situation at the time. So if anyone knows at this stage that [00:08:00] you'd like to speak could you please make yourself known to So just pop down and have a a quiet chat to him. Um, we've already got you lined up, and that's all good. You've got that, um, logged. Um, and we we know that this is AAA panel of New Zealand uh, a New Zealand based panel, and we're talking about human rights in New Zealand, but we have international guests here with great expertise. And it would be great to hear from you regardless of whether you've come from Europe [00:08:30] or from the Pacific. Um, uh, to, um, offer some things in, uh, one of those speaking slots. And if we get to the point where we've still got some time, we might be able to have a bit of a general discussion. So, social media, um, I think you've already talked about privacy. So if anyone has any concerns about the image being portrayed, then just have it, uh, and and and have A to the organisers and or to Sean about those things. So [00:09:00] let me just make the following points about how the panel will operate. Panel members are here to listen and to briefly, um, question submitters as appropriate. Um, they're not here to answer questions on political positions from submitters or from the audience, so that's not what we're doing. Um, and of course, for this to work, everyone has to be respectful of the comments we made. You may not agree with absolutely everything, but this is a space where things can be spoken and heard and listened [00:09:30] to, um and that may mean quite a divergence of material coming out. And, um, just be respectful of people and of the the fact they've got something to say. Uh, as already noted, um, there may well be some government officials present who are also listening. And certainly there will be a report to relevant government departments to consider, um, as, uh, a a bit a bit later on. And the outcomes from the session will go to the conference organisers, [00:10:00] um, to be included as part of the conference. Um, if any of that's unclear, please, um uh, ask me questions as we go along. Um, but for the meantime, it's Elizabeth. Where's Elizabeth? I've lost you there. I thought I might pick on you to go first. Is that OK? Because you're fabulous. So first submitter. Oh, there we go. This is for you. This is for me. It means I can't cough without [00:10:30] actually deafening the audience, right? Yeah. Good. Um, so our first submitter Elizabeth, No, please come down. We'll have a space for you. And And if you fancy sitting while you talk rather than standing, we'll get you a chair and you're absolutely fine. We need to be of the Human Rights Commission and those that have gone before us. [00:11:00] We also have here and and the similar piece of work that Jack and Joy were involved to be who I am, a lot of work. And a lot of what you've got of you is part of that story. So and it's, um it's with humility or humbleness, and I think we're trying to walk in the huge steps that you've left behind. So [00:11:30] thank you particular Shout out to, uh, particular shout out to Kevin and [00:12:00] and Jan, who I've worked with through our different community work. I just want to acknowledge how hard it is to maintain our activist and community ethics within a government and Parliament environment, and that we really respect the work that you do on behalf of all of us and to the rest of you, I expect to be getting to know you a lot better. Uh, the particular I will be speaking on, uh, just very briefly. And I guess I should introduce myself Elizabeth here. So [00:12:30] I hail from Gisborne. But 20 years in Wellington, I am a chair of trust who opened the today and opened the worst part of the, uh providing the for our conference. Ah, part of what is about our our vision is a rainbow is forming in the sky. And our goal is for to be able to tell our stories, build our communities [00:13:00] and leave a legacy. And so one of the major projects I want to talk about is a national rainbow strategy. I'm very conscious that for people in government and government agencies, when you're dealing with such a diverse community as ours is and we include all Maori who identify with diverse sexes, genders and sexualities. So across the every spectrum, every new leader, every new identity, we cover it for those who are Maori. And so we are aware how difficult it is then for our government [00:13:30] and Parliament to then say, Oh, well, what are the what are the key issues of the hundreds of issues? What are the main things? What is the next step? Our goal with the national strategy, then, is to coordinate those issues across the country. But it's what are we gonna do about it? So all the laws that have been passed and all the changes that have happened in the last 30 years Yes, as Maori, we take a much, much longer view than that. We go much further back and we go much for further forward. And so we're looking at what are the What's the next piece of legislation that must happen for [00:14:00] our community to progress? What are the next four things over the next 20 years? What are the key policies that have to change? Leaders that sit in government, who are the key people we need to be talking to, so that when we take all the issues that young people raise when we take the people the issues that are intersex and trans, our gender diverse people, our bisexual people and all of us, because and again, when you take the long view things have changed But those things our young people talked about that was happening to lesbian and gay people not very long ago. Uh, don't get me started [00:14:30] on colonisation how long it's been since we started the treaty. You know, since that all happened and and how much So a lot is changing and in some ways, the big stuff. Racism is still doing its thing. And so, with the National Rainbow strategy, it's something will be dedicated to over the next couple of years so that we can work with government and institutions across the country to say these are the key things that we need to be getting on with next. Uh, this is And and I really want to emphasise that the strategy does not at all uh, take [00:15:00] away the power and the importance of each of us speaking on our own behalf and raising our own issues and speaking and engaging directly with government ourselves. Uh, but this is a way of coordinating effort and saying right when and also even if some funding becomes available in different government departments, what are the priorities? What do we do next? What do we do in the next five years, the next 10 in the next 20. So Cuba. Yeah. [00:15:30] Thank Do you have, uh, questions or reflections on what Elizabeth had to say you when I strike? Uh, Elizabeth, Um, and, uh, if this actually were a select committee, um, I would be looking for an opportunity to to you and and what you [00:16:00] had had to say, Um and, uh, certainly I. I like the idea of of a national strategy. What I'm wondering about is what engagement you want from from government or from from the cross parliamentary group. In the development of that strategy, do you want, uh, that engagement to occur while the strategy is being developed? Or do you want want that group or parliament to respond [00:16:30] to the strategy once it is available? I see that happening on a couple of different levels. One of them is that as it is being developed, they're going to be things that come up, uh, in your work. Uh, already. And I suppose we would want to be able to help assist away, um, create a mechanism, then for you access in the community, making sure that you're hearing the right voices. Uh, and as you continue with your work? Uh, and then something. I guess [00:17:00] we would want from you in the development of the strategy itself as a clarity of process. It's understanding who it is we need to go to for certain things. So if we're talking about changing the law, for example around, uh, and also that whole process from, yes, we can change the law and we can make rules at this level about how to treat trans gender people in prison. How does that happen? What policies need to be changed across corrections, probation and police? What happens, uh, for the actual [00:17:30] warden of each individual prison? Uh and then how does start training roll out? So it's looking at it's complex. I can't wait for those who are strategy freaks like myself. It's very exciting. Um, but it's that kind of level of engagement to say, What is the process depending on which level we're engaging with, because we have to be able to do all of it and killed? Sure, Elizabeth, I just think we've got the government officials here in the audience. [00:18:00] So I think a a clear comment from you is that you would like government officials to go away with that, um, request to have a rainbow strategy and the government to collaborate on that and and at different levels, is that correct? Yes. I think it's very much going to be community led, uh, the way that we've structured it for we're a very small trust. We work on the basis of community, uh, building, relationship, building and collaboration. So we are not a funded organisation, uh, and so that we are not constrained by funding [00:18:30] funders, requests and and constraints. And so in this, we're not necessarily at this stage looking for funding. That's not what this is about. Uh, however, to ensure that there is engagement across our communities. That's where we would like to be able to get support. Um, uh, Elizabeth, um, thank you [00:19:00] very much for opening. Uh, not only, um, the conference, but also this this particular session, Um, I think that, uh, this whole notion of a rainbow strategy actually has been something that our cross party group has been thinking about, too. Uh, from our perspectives. Um, what are our priorities? What is the legislative reform that we as politicians from across the house, uh, have identified and want to commit to, um one of the [00:19:30] issues that we have as a cross party group is, um, trying to find the things that we all agree on because once we do that, then actually, we can have a concerted effort. Um, and I also want to acknowledge that Marama Fox is, um, a former member of our group. And we, uh, also have a number of other, um, members of parliament. Um, and the other issue that we've been grappling with is how we hold the public system, the public service accountable for meeting the needs, um, of our of our communities [00:20:00] and the diverse needs of our communities. So, um, I also want to total for the development of a national rainbow strategy. And I think you've got the actors here. We've got the community. We've got the Human Rights Commission, and we have the Cross-party Rainbow Group, and I think that together, Uh, if we start looking at what each of us is doing and looking at those points of intersection, um, What I hope is that actually, we can have a strategy That's a collaboration between the community, [00:20:30] uh, and the community will need some aspects of that. It is for the Human Rights Commission who will lead some aspects of that. And it's also with our Cross parliamentary group who will lead some aspects. But I think you're right. It's, um we need a process that ensures all of us are empowered that nobody's disenfranchised, that everybody, uh, buys into and commits to. So some, um, thoughts around how you think or how What's the next step really in getting [00:21:00] us all together, uh, would be appreciated because, uh, you know, you independently have taken some responsibility, as have us, But how really are we going to make this work? So I have lots of brilliant ideas around this myself and have talked to many people, uh, everywhere I've gone to and spoken to in the last nearly a year. I brought this up to ask Who's interested, who wants to be involved at some level. And so off the top of my head, the very first [00:21:30] thing we wanted to do was to convene a coat to a council of sorts is to grab the elders of our community across all of our different identities and just to create the values and confirm the values and and get the mandate. Um, of how this work will be approached. Uh, the other two key things I would like to have done by the end of the year is is a around this so that we have really clear about, um, young people being engaged [00:22:00] in this. And the third thing is a research symposium so that we can start looking at Yes, we know a lot of our issues. Uh, they've been expressed in different ways within our community, if not out in the wider world. What evidence do we need to back some of that up? What things do we need to get done urgently? And from that, we'll be doing a national tour around the country so that people have the chance to speak. Not just about identifying issues I'm always about. Yeah. And what are we gonna do about it? And what and what [00:22:30] and what? And so and looking forward into the future because nothing is simple. We have to do many layers of work to address these things. Uh, so those things will roll. I want to come back to just address what you said at the beginning that this is something Absolutely. I saw that it will be done in conjunction with government in conjunction with Parliament so that we get it when that is done. And as it progresses through that, we are all engaged with it, and we are all committed to it. I don't see it as a separate. We're going to, as we often have done. And as we have needed to do is [00:23:00] to say, this is our thing. And then we go to you, and we either do demands grovelling try to, you know, lobby and all of those things we see this is operating at a higher level and that, uh, not to say any of those other things are not necessary in different contexts, but in this case, absolutely something that we can work together. Hello, everybody. Um, look, first of all, thanks for the opportunity to to be here [00:23:30] today and to, uh, uh, be able to listen to what you have to say and to ask questions. First thing I'd like to say is, uh, applaud the strategic approach that you you you are proposing. I think that is definitely the best best way to go. And I hope you will identify the priorities in that as well, because there's going to be a lot to do as you you well know. I really only have, uh, one question at this stage, and it's around public. Engage engagement because, as you will know, [00:24:00] politicians find things a lot easier if the public understand what's going on. And, um, there needs to be some leadership in that which I'm sure your groups can provide. So, um, my question would be, what proposals do you have to engage the wider public to and to try and bring as many people with with us as possible. That's a really good point, one of which is not really considered very [00:24:30] much so Now that I think about it now, I see the value of that, uh, to begin with, the strategy is very much looking at What are the what are the aid issues? Much of which is known, uh, the creative ways and we in which we see that this can be addressed. And I think you're right. Depending on what the issues are, depending on which communities we're talking about, Then we're talking about engaging [00:25:00] the wider um, wider community. If I could give the example of the intersex roundtable that's coming up next month where absolutely those issues are so key for intersex people, Uh, and then the round table enables creates an environment which can engage us as kind of the it can engage medical profession, um, and other parts of the community. So I see that that is quite a lovely model, uh, for engaging the people who have direct input into those particular things in this case, a particular health focus. [00:25:30] Uh, but I can see that how that can operate. Uh and the fact is, all of us and all of our different organisations are engaging with the general public as members of of a, uh and and I as members of families throughout this country, we are constantly engaging Bell. I gave the example of being an activist since she was 11 and those of us who have been activists our whole lives as well This is something that we're involved in constantly. So I see that that will be part of a natural [00:26:00] process. To begin with, we'll start looking at our solutions and then thing to achieve these things who do we need to talk to? And it will become part of that wider discussion in the public. But thank you. That's something I will put more thought into. Oh, good. And, uh, I'd like to thank everybody, uh, and particularly, uh, Jackie and the commission and the organisers for having me here. Um, and so thank you very much, I. I have to say, I, I really admire the idea of thinking several steps ahead. Um, because [00:26:30] it's, uh, the easiest thing to say everyone should do and the hardest thing to actually do so good on you. I just have one sort of slight challenge is it's all very well to have a national strategy, and I think we should. But we should also be mindful that many of the challenges that the communities that we are trying to to advance the face to have been from state laws and state institutions. Um, and I just wonder if you got a, I guess, a strategy to make [00:27:00] sure that a national strategy doesn't become and I hesitate to use the word but a national straitjacket. Mm hm. I see that it's something that will evolve and something that needs to be constantly updated and that because at this stage, when I first started talking about this, people said to me Oh, [00:27:30] you'll need an office and you'll have to set up a, um, get some staff and you and I was like, No, let's let's not constrain our thinking into particular solutions There's different ways that this, uh, will be able to operate. I don't see that it's something that gets done. Then it's it's done, it gets finished and that's a piece of paper to sit on the shelf or it goes to wherever it's going to go. This must be a living document that will only happen if people who commit to it the organisations [00:28:00] that are already doing the work and all the things we need to set up to do the rest of the work only if they continue to be engaged in that and that that is absolutely a challenge of this of this work is that that people can see their long term goal and see that this will feed into and help attain, and because the key thing about this as well is that so that we each become familiar with each other's issues because it's so easy when we're in our little worlds and, uh, to to not see what's happening for the [00:28:30] rest of us or to resent people because they see that they've got more privilege than us or or whatever instead of seeing the whole picture. And I think we keep that a living document so long as we we set it up right. The process is sound. The engagement is sound from the beginning. It will continue to be so Thank you, panel. And, um, thank you very much, Elizabeth. And again, please give her a fabulous round of applause for going Cheers. [00:29:00] Thank you, people. We're going to move down our, um, submitters list, and, um, we'll hear from Sally. Sally Dello first, um, and then after that, Sandra Dickson. I just want to check and see if Kelly James or Sarah H have arrived in the room. No. So after, um, after Sandra, then we'll be going to Bella. Um, and then we've got, um, some an indication from some other people that they want [00:29:30] to speak as well. So, um, but if you want to, um, again, if you want to line up to, uh, give a brief oral submission to the panel. Then, uh, you need to let know. So I know to pop you into the order. So Sally Dello thank you very, very much. Just had instructions from our sound people that if I could stand by the square and talk So Joey and Jack, can you come and join me over here, please? Makes [00:30:00] makes it a bit easier. Um, I put in two or three or three oral submissions to I'm taking. I just have one opportunity to speak. Um, the reason for doing that is we held our yesterday, and the closing for the submissions to the panel was on Sunday. So in order to, um, I wanted a placeholder for the trans community to be able to speak to the panel, Um, I want [00:30:30] to cover off three areas. I'm gonna try and do it very quickly. And I'm gonna ask, um, Jack and Joe McDonald to, um add some extra words. Um, I'll try and be brief. Um, the three things that are, uh, important for me as a trans person. And I don't speak for the community. I speak for myself and listening to people yesterday, Um, adding gender identity into the Human Rights Act. [00:31:00] There's a reason that it's important to us at the moment because it's not in the Human Rights Act. We can't point to that and point corrections and police and justice to that act and say, Hey, your gender identity isn't the act. It's a human right? You've got to treat trans prisoners. OK, we can't do that at the moment because all we've got is an opinion from the crown in your office. Um, so that's kind of, um, one of the [00:31:30] reasons for looking at the Gender Recognition Act. The other thing I would point like to make with that is, um, when the they tried to add the word gender identity, I think this is your initiative up to, um, the annual bill that correct typos and spelling mistakes. Um, I did some had a conversation with some people from the Victoria University Feminist Law Society and working with Eliza McDonald, Elizabeth McDonald and a couple of students. Um, and [00:32:00] they they put together, um, they basically had to go at rewriting the act or the bits that needed to be changed. So this conversation is happening in the community and work being done. Um hey, we've got voices. Please listen to us. Um, just a quick mention about health and Joe's gonna talk more about health in a minute. Um, the Ministry of Health through the high cost treatment pool funds essentially two trans surgeries [00:32:30] a year. Now. I'm a scientist. I play with numbers. Um, I went, what's the origin of those numbers? And surprisingly, they actually match the prevalence numbers and the DS M force of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which for trans men was one and 100,000. The numbers work out. That's where they come from. Um, my point is that they the Ministry of Health made a commitment to fully [00:33:00] fund trans surgeries based on those prevalence numbers. The problem is based on the youth 12 survey, there's not 100 and 60 trans people in New Zealand. There's 50,000 that's gonna require, uh, a dedicated surgery theatre double shifted just to meet the ongoing need without covering the unmet need. There's a huge investment required to meet the health need, the surgical health needs of the trends. And it also includes the inter community when they are of [00:33:30] an age to making 4% about what they want to do with their bodies. One more point. And then I'll hand over to my, um, colleagues, um, the Human Rights Commission. We're looking at trans prisoners. There's been a policy written, and there's just a a phrase that comes, I believe originated with disability activism had nothing about us with our the trans community was not involved. As [00:34:00] far as I'm aware in writing that policy or having a conversation around that policy, um, the trans community has a range of skills and abilities. Like I said, I'm a scientist. We have lawyers in the community. We can have these conversations and have these conversations at a high level. Um, please invite us to the table because we have things we need to say, Um, we would like to be listened to, not talked at [00:34:30] and the way the policy was written. Only rich white trans women who can get gender change on birth certificates um, can afford that. And those are most need help are more often poor trans women of colour who are least likely engage with the system to change their official documentation um, but the policy has been set up around the wrong way. So again, we would like to have that conversation because we've got some things to say. [00:35:00] Thank you, Sally. Thanks for this opportunity to speak. My name is Joey McDonald. Um, I'm just gonna add a few extra points and some clarifications about the discussion regarding health and Health Services In particular, I wanted to highlight that, um, as as Jill has already said, Jack and Julie. So Jack Burn and Julie Watson are already here, [00:35:30] and their work has really underpinned all of us being here today. So I'm incredibly personally, deeply grateful to you both different. Ok, you can I'll try and take a few more minutes. So your type, um, our U PR submission. So I know this is something that you've had access to read. I think the panel that was the JGU PR submission that we completed last year, year before, a little while ago. Um, that really does have some comprehensive recommendations [00:36:00] about health. So I'm not going to just read them out or go through that again, because I certainly I hope our community has access to that, and we can make that available if you don't and our panel already does. I'd just like to highlight two key points from that submission, and that was about intersex people and prohibiting genital surgeries and nonconsensual medical interventions for intersex people. That is something we could have legislation about, that other countries have legislation about that. We need to be taking action on, [00:36:30] um and also AAA broader issue about understanding. As people have already said today, the, um, overlaps and intersections between transgender and intersex communities, recognising that this is not the language that everybody would use anyway. It means that having access to high quality health services, which is something like Sally, has highlighted the need for access to surgical support, which is something that some people want and other people don't want. A lot of people in my role I can talk [00:37:00] about a little bit what my role is, but it means that I'm seeing a lot of people who want access to mental health support, whether that's counselling or whatever, and often they don't meet that criteria for secondary mental health services. Our mental health services are set up, um, very much around strict clinical criteria and a desperate kind of need. If you don't meet that criteria, you don't get access. So there's massive need in our communities. It's really unmet by any public health system in terms of the discrimination and the minority stress that we face that causes us to develop all kinds [00:37:30] of responses to that situation. We need our public mental health services to actually be able to respond to our needs. I love her clothes. I also wanted to clarify that, um, hormones are something that a lot of people want access to and in New Zealand at the moment. As you all know, probably it's really inconsistent as to the pathways of care [00:38:00] or the the the ways that people might go about trying to access hormone treatment so some people might go to a GP. Some people might find a specialist. Some people pay $7000. There is no public health system that is set up to meet the needs of people who want access to hormone treatment, whether that might be an in sex person or a trans person or anybody falling under that diversity of sexes and genders working in mental health. I have seen that some people try and get that access through mental health services, and we're lucky that there are some great staff who will [00:38:30] try and meet that need. But they're not funded to do that. They're not supported to do that. They're not given education to be able to do that. So not surprisingly, a lot of people are not picking up that kind of that need in mental health services. It's not something that a lot of people want to see. Housed in mental health services, anyway, is another point. Um so access to mental health support and hormones are things that a lot of people talk about wanting, Um, with not a lot. I want to emphasise the fact that transition means really different things for different people. [00:39:00] So not everybody wants any kind of medical intervention. People who do want different kinds of things to suit the particular self determination that we have. All of those services can be delivered basis on the basis of, um, we can talk about human rights and particularly, I would say, respecting bodily autonomy and respecting self determination if we were able to have health services that were underpinned by those principles a whole lot of people would be, um, surviving and possibly thriving, but certainly not dying, which is what's happening now. [00:39:30] I love Elizabeth's, um, Rainbow strategy, and I'm on board for contributing to that. And I also really want to point out that a lot of work has previously been done and has been presented to the government. And I rely on the HR C to keep reminding the government that we're not. We have. We've been working our asses off to actually get that material to you because a lot of us aren't paid to do that work. We don't have a lot of infrastructure, so [00:40:00] I respect that. A lot of people want to do the work without funding as Elizabeth, as Elizabeth said. That's without that kind of restraint that funding can give you. But it means that we don't have the capacity to be constantly saying, Please, remember what we said last year. Please remember what we said five years ago. Please, 10 years ago this happened. We keep saying it, we keep saying it, we keep saying it and it seems to fall on deaf ears. A lot of a lot of the time so please refer to the documents that already exist, as well as asking us for our current state of affairs and comments on that. Thank you. [00:40:30] Um, my name is Jack Byrne. Um, I'd also like to acknowledge and support everything that other people have said here. Um, Joey didn't mention that, um, they're one of the people who's been involved in the Auckland DHB, the Northern DHB proposals and then just one clarification. Currently, those discussions have not resulted in any improvement because they're just discussions at this [00:41:00] point. And most Trans people pay for every single aspect of our transition related care in this country. The only thing that we could say for sure that we don't have to pay for is once we eventually get put on hormones, that it's covered by a subsidy, and it's and and it's one of the cheap, you know, it's cheap to be on hormones in this country. Yeah, yeah, yes. So even [00:41:30] that isn't even that. Isn't it the same for the guys, too? There's prefer models that aren't subsidised for some people as well, but everything else. Most of us most cases if we need to get a a diag. A diagnosis we have to pay privately to get that diagnosis. Many parts of the country from people from Palmerston North yesterday and the endocrinology service there has said we will not accept any more referrals because they've got young people coming through. So people are paying to see [00:42:00] private endocrinologists. Most of us there are many surgeries, friends, men and chest surgery. We pay for that ourselves. There used to be a couple of doctors who did it, and then the DH B said, No, we're not funded to do that. So I know that the ministry often says it's great that the the northern DHS are doing this. But we've been used as footballs between Ministry of Health and DDS for a long time. When one says the DC should be doing it and when they are not doing [00:42:30] it, they say that the ministry is not giving us enough money, so please try and find a way to sort it out because, particularly for young people, they see it. When you say pathway of care. It sounds like something I don't know clinical, but actually it's pathway to life. People don't see a path. I was I was talking about, but so my brother is about [00:43:00] something really fundamental. I loved it when, um when there was joy who came up with the title for to be who I am the language of the Trans and inquiry report and I was very lucky to be working as a senior policy analyst at the commission when we when we did that report. Now I work as AAA consultant in the region for organisations like the United Nations Development Programme. And so at the moment I'm working on a legal gender recognition project across Asia, eight countries in Asia [00:43:30] and people often think you know, legal gender recognition is just being able to change documents, but it's actually about really fundamental human rights. It's the third right mentioned in the Yogyakarta principles. It's the right to recognition of all the law and the right to equal protection. It's a fundamental civil and political right and and that's why I chose to make a personal submission to the Human Rights Committee that is looking at New Zealand's periodic review [00:44:00] in the next week. The next couple of weeks, uh, under the um, the International Covenant on Civil and Political rights. It's a really fund fundamental right? Most of you probably know that. It's it's We've got a world leading policy in New Zealand for changing passports, and that's huge. It has made a huge practical difference for people's lives, but not every person can change their passport. If you're a new person living in New Zealand in New Zealand, but you're not a New Zealand citizen, you can't change your passport. [00:44:30] And there are some circumstances where you still need your birth certificate. My understanding is that what's written on your child's birth certificate the sex on that depends on what you're on your birth certificate. So if you if you still what's on your birth certificate is what goes on your death certificate. And many and many Trans people in this country have changed their passport. But we actually many of us have incongruent documents. Our birth certificate [00:45:00] says something completely different from what's on our passport, and I would have thought that was of concern to government, and we we navigate what other people people often think of us as deceiving people about who we are or wonder about that we're trying to be fraudulent. We navigate that knowing that our documents are incongruent and incongruent because the process which changing a birth certificate as a family court process. And um, there's someone [00:45:30] from, um, Karen said to me today, most of the girls, particularly Maori, you know, don't know that you can change your birth certificate without having surgeries. So there's huge issues around people's perception of the law. There has been a family court decision. It's only the whole lower level. They're not. They don't see precedent. But there was a family court decision that said not all surgeries are needed in all cases, but it still depends on what an individual judge says. It still says in the act [00:46:00] that you need medical evidence. We can't even get to see me to get on hormones. The chances that we got to give them to write a document for us that we can take to the family court gets remoter and remoter and remoter when there weren't many of us and you know, it was relatively easy to do. Now we can't even get a script out of them. How are we gonna get that letter? You know, and and maybe the family court judge will think the GPS letter is enough. But there are people still being asked to show proof of sex reassignment surgery. Even though that's [00:46:30] not covered. Why can't we just make it simple? Adopt our passports policy? It's world-leading. Use that for changing birth certificates as well. Give us equal protection under the law as every other citizen remove that discrepancy that there is between our documents and do. The wonderful thing that we do in this part of the world is recognise three options in if or at the moment it's X as a third option, so it wouldn't cost too much. So, so so so that they [00:47:00] were, and also totally simple. There are people here who have lots of expertise regionally. Fiji. They have sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression recognised in their constitution. Australia have added intersex status as protected as a prohibited ground of discrimination. We can learn from each other and there's a lot we can share with you and we would really like to see finally see some progress. [00:47:30] OK, well, thank you for that very impassion presentation. I mean, it seems sort of fighting a three front war for legal rights and recognition under the law, Uh, a welcoming, uh, education sector, Uh, and a proportionally funded health sector. And sometimes one of the best things to have is a a working model and just picking up on those final comments. I just wonder, perhaps, [00:48:00] in all of those categories, if I've if I've got those right, Uh, or perhaps just in some of them, are there particular countries that we can look on as a model or is the whole world got a long way to go? Yeah. It's really good countries. And, you know, you might be surprised the world leading one initially was Argentina on legal gender recognition, access to healthcare. Probably not a country that New Zealand looks to a lot. Now, there's a whole lot in Europe, which is probably where you you're more likely to look Malta [00:48:30] wonderful legislation. Not only does it have, um, and the people here from Mel will know all of this stuff too. Not only does it, um, people's self determined, um, gender identity, it statutory prohibits surgeries on intersex infants with Children without their consent. We can We can look at our female genital mutilation laws. You know that explicitly at the moment, have an exception and say, We don't agree with female genital mutilation, but we can have surgeries. We allow [00:49:00] an exception for intersex Children. It's a very simple place to start. Um, so Malta does that that the law change also has policies around how to improve things in in schools. And they've instituted a review of health services. Um, another country. We look at the UK. They've had a gender recognition act there, which is a medical model very quite similar to ours. Their birth certificate model and their select committee in the last January this this year said it needs [00:49:30] to move to a self determination model. And then we've got Denmark. We've got Finland, we've got good provisions. So that's around the legal gender recognition, transgender prisoners. There has been some good work happening in both England and Scotland, so because I'm a, you know, human rights researcher and I work and I'm very happy to provide examples of any of these policies around the world. And one thing with the trains we keep talking at prisons. We keep talking about where people are housed, but equally important is access [00:50:00] to healthcare. When Trans people are in prison and access to rehabilitation and currently those those have become invisible to the debate. I'm going to ask panellists and submitters to speed along a little bit. We're way over time and I've I've I've let that run because I think the core of the issues that both Elizabeth and um, Sally's group have presented us some of the critical ones. Um, but there are some other submitters to come, and we do have to finish at 11. [00:50:30] 30. So, um, I'm just gonna ask us to clip it along a little bit. But thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to respond to the idea of using models in terms of how um, it's particularly important in New Zealand. And as Jack mentioned, I'm part of the northern region. DH B is doing the kind of what they're calling the trans pathways of care proposal, and we don't know yet where that's going to lead, Um, but it's really important that we have culturally appropriate models of health here, and that needs to be recognised in relation to so or gender identity or trans [00:51:00] communities as much as anything else. So making sure that everything is appropriate when it comes to Maori and Pacific, and I think we can do that by relying on instead of clinical criteria and a medical model and a DS M, we can look at informed consent models of access which places are doing some places are doing. Um, instead of relying on pathologize language about meeting certain clinical criteria, there are models of care that are much more about respecting self determination, respecting bodily autonomy, [00:51:30] understanding that, you know, we are the experts on ourselves. We could we could make that happen here. We could be world leaders the same way that we are with our passport policy. Um, it is really, really possible for our health services to move ahead of the game. Currently, we're way behind. We could actually, fairly easily, I think, implement some education and some adjustment to our services to make them genuinely helpful and responsive in a way that won't go out of date in three years. Yeah, [00:52:00] thanks very much for to the the last three speakers. I've made some very valuable notes as a result of that. So, um, you know, you've had an effect already at least as far as we're concerned. Um, there's a tremendous amount there, and a lot of which is going to need a lot of thought. Um, and and there are many things I'd like to explore further, but for the purposes of of just now, I'd like to focus on the ways in which, [00:52:30] uh, birth certificates, passports and other official documents can be changed. Um, obviously, the current law is a mess and and needs attention. What I'd like to know from you is how you think. A process for change, of all all such documents at once, rather than doing it piecemeal, one at a time might happen. Have you given any thought to that? Um, and can I get one person [00:53:00] from a from a submitting group to answer that question? Because I'm really I've got three more submitters and I've got a really short time. So, uh, this has been really valuable, and I need to wind it up just to keep it very brief. Um, the key document actually turns out to be the birth certificate. Um, the way that the passports and drivers, they were all sort of piece meal. If we had the birth certificate, everything else sort it out. So it really stands on that birth certificate. [00:53:30] Thank you. Really have to answer. No, I. I basically wanted to commend you on your coalition 2013 submission, Um, and actually just confirm something that Elizabeth, uh, said earlier that actually, this is a living document, and it needs to be updated because, um, you know the whole commitment to changing or adding gender identity, for example, to the Human Rights [00:54:00] Act. It seems that some people want to expand on that not just make it gender identity, but gender expression or whatever it might be in the commitment from both the Human Rights Commission. Uh, and the submission is just a gender identity. Um, so that's probably the biggest thing other than to say everything that, um, has been noted. Um, you know, we are working tirelessly away, uh, on a doc our own document, which includes everything that you've that you've highlighted. So, uh, I look forward to working with [00:54:30] you. Essentially, I just very quickly thank you for your submission. Thank you for all the people that did take the time to write and, um, very powerful. A lot to take on board and you can actually depend on the Human Rights Commission to keep the government honest. And we're here for the long haul. Don't worry. I echo the points that other panellists have made about the the value and large number of points that you've made that I agree [00:55:00] with and and really need to be incorporated into policy. Uh, one, question reduced to a, um, very brief answer version is, um uh, so I'm I'm the sponsor of, uh, Tommy Hamilton's petition to the, um, Health Health Committee. Uh, and, um, when you spoke about health services, you largely spoke about access to [00:55:30] services and pathways of care, pathways, pathways to life if you like. Um, but I really noted that when Tommy and Marie came and spoke to the committee about, uh, about the petition that their focus was very much on quality of care and and not only, um, about care specific to trans or intersex, um, services, but actually to [00:56:00] all health services. Um, do you agree that that's an important part of what? What the system needs to respond to quality services. One that's partly what I do is trying to provide education to people working in Auckland District Health Board, mental health and addiction services. So it's a tiny piece. Really? Um, and I I'm trying to improve those services, but that said a lot of our services that we are trying to get access to are not funded to meet our needs. And if they're not funded to meet our needs, [00:56:30] then we can't of their quality because they don't even exist in the first place. So we need to both be improving the services that do exist, recognising the great work that is happening and actually making it official and giving people designated time designated portfolios designated processes to be able to meet our health needs. Otherwise, we're just improving the quality of things that don't even exist in the first place. So thank you. Thank you. And Jack and Joey very, very good. Sandra, can I have Sandra Dickson? Uh, given [00:57:00] the timing, I'm gonna have to be, um, really go to strict strict timing on the remaining submissions. There will be a 10 minute slot for Sandra who provided a written submission. Uh, then we've got, uh, Bella. After that, I'm gonna have to give you five rather than 10. Um and rain is here. Ah, right. You've got five minutes as well. Where? We got an email from you saying that you were, um and you've submitted some stuff, but those are our speakers. And then I'm gonna have to wrap up [00:57:30] at 25 past 11. So Sandra Dickson, please, uh, give her a give her a big hand. Thank you. Um, panel members and so nice to be doing this with, um so today I'm speaking on behalf of which is the peak body for youth development in New Zealand. Um, we're an umbrella organisation with nearly 800 members from the youth sector. Um, we include [00:58:00] national organisations, clinicians, youth workers, schools, holiday programmes, the youth sector, um and we were set up to support people who work with young people to be more connected, effective and en and accountable. So my submission today is going to focus on how we create safer environments for rain young people because the young people aren't the problem here. It's the environments that they're growing in. Um literally means pathway to and from young people. And I'm going to use rainbow, [00:58:30] and I know it's a contested term, but I'm gonna use rainbow for people under the sex, sexuality and gender diversity umbrellas. So back in 2012, the National youth sector report from a consultation with more than 250 people across 11 recommended that rainbow issues be included in all facets of youth sector work. The youth sector recognised the rainbow. Young people struggle with discrimination with ST with stigma and with exclusion which creates unique harms. And they also noted that the risks [00:59:00] there were really significant risks in underresourced the rainbow support sector because that sector was relied on by the youth sector. These needs were echoed in a 2014 report from a national survey which called for rainbow competency training for the wider youth sector. Also in 2014, we began our Queer Trans grants programme to support groups working with rainbow young people around the country. Over two years, we engaged with 57 groups, 48 of which we funded, [00:59:30] which I'm not sure if anyone else at that time knew there were 57 groups working with rainbow young people around the country. But we certainly didn't, um you can see there, I think a quite staggering response to our community scrambling to keep up with the needs of rainbow young people. Last year we held three forums and we surveyed these rainbow support groups the ones that we funded. And there were six pressing issues that were identified in these consultations. So the first one, number one burnout, is a serious [01:00:00] issue for the rainbow support sector. These groups are mostly being run by young Rainbow volunteers. They're dealing with really complex stuff. They're doing an extraordinary job, but they've got a lot on their plate. Number two. There are significant gaps for Maori and for rain people from young and rainbow young people from diverse cultural backgrounds, which is a problem because of racism. Yeah, both inside and outside the community. Number [01:00:30] three Suicide is a serious issue. We've got lots of stats on this. I think this one is particularly horrifying. Three quarters of our group said that they are working with a rainbow young person who's suicidal. Nearly half of them had worked with the young person who had later killed themselves. Homelessness is a serious issue. Half of the groups that answered our survey had had a staff member offer personal housing to a homeless young [01:01:00] person because there was nowhere safe for them to go. Number five. There's no Ministry of Health level best practise guidelines for young people and therefore there's no accountability in health care environments and we've heard a lot about that already. So I'll leave that one there. Number six. There's no Ministry of Education level, best practise guidelines for rainbow young people and no accountability in education environments. And what that means for our rainbow support groups is that they are literally picking up the pieces [01:01:30] from the interactions that our rainbow young people have that they have no choice over. You have to go to school. You need health care is continuing to support the youth sector. Working with rainbow young young people, we have some new rainbow infographics which are based on nationally representative data from you 2000. I'm gonna share copies with you today, Um and we're also working on a rainbow competency framework for the youth sector based [01:02:00] on local, national and international best practise. Developing rainbow competency will help the you see to create safer environments and address the discrimination, stigma and exclusion that create the horrible statistics that we've identified and all the research we have, it's all very consistent. But the reason I'm submitting today is that this work to create safer environments that we've been doing that the youth sector has been doing that the rainbow support Sector has been doing isn't going to succeed with our youth support. [01:02:30] We urge you. He urges you to encourage the introduction of rainbow competency, not just in mainstream youth environments, but in government departments. We urge you to support the at least 57 rainbow support groups around the country that are literally doing lifesaving work and are literally Yeah, I can't say much more than that. Actually, they're literally doing lifesaving work with our treasured rainbow young people. Thank you. [01:03:00] I'm done. I'm done. Start in the middle of this time. Yeah, um, a brief comment or again, Short answer questions are really good. Well, firstly, thank you for the work that you do. Um, it's incredibly valuable. Uh, and your submission, um, is well made. Um, what [01:03:30] I wanted to highlight, And actually, David and I are part of the cross party youth parliament group. Uh, and one of the topics that will be discussed generically, um, in the Education and Science Select Committee. Uh, this this youth parliament is should schools be required to be more accessible to LGBTI communities to specifically look at school culture and facilities? So this is an issue that obviously is generic. It's not. It's not just an issue that we need, um, young [01:04:00] Bella and Alex, um, being a champion of. But I think that, um, you know, providing forums where actually, this is a generic issue that all of us need to take responsibility for, um, regarding the rainbow tech. I'm aware of the work that Michael Stevens is doing, obviously, and corporate New Zealand have actually grabbed this concept and particularly the banking sector. Um, I don't know of any, um, public entities that have put their hands up. Um, but actually, maybe Parliament should be, uh, and our parliamentary service, Jan, [01:04:30] uh, should be an entity that we, um, encourage to go through the rainbow tick. So completely agree that, um, that that's a really good indication of how responsive, uh, organisations are to. That's very good. Um, I, I think I don't really have a question as such Other than, um, I guess it's a challenge. Everything you've said is a challenge to us. Um, I'm not aware of those 57 [01:05:00] groups Be really good if you actually share that information with us. Because then our cross party group can write probably letters to, uh, Minister of Youth development. Um, uh, and I don't know, we'll have a brainstorm about what other minister it's relevant to, but someone has to fund them. You've been funding them in the interim because, yeah, I am aware that there is more money in the area and they've funded, uh, rainbow youth. Um, but, [01:05:30] um, just thank you very much for what you're doing. Um, does anyone else have a question? I guess I want to, Um I want to say something about the importance of the small local group. Um recently, I was involved in a national road trip for another piece of work, rainbow related, And we had a, um a that a young Trans woman from came across to attend, and she said she'd come to that because it was going to [01:06:00] be her only chance to see people like her that month. So for her, she was saying one of the things I need is stuff where I am. Yeah, I've got a minute and a half left on this submission. Panellists might decide as to who's gonna ask one more question and get one more answer. Well, if nobody else wants to do that Thank you, Dennis. I'll ask a very specific question. In your view, what would be the top action priorities for government to prevent [01:06:30] youth suicides? Um, in fact, we were the first organisation to chat to the person who's working on that at the moment, So that's fantastic. Um, I think rainbow young people need to see themselves everywhere. I think we need to be visible in schools. We need to be, um, visible in healthcare environments. And visibility doesn't mean a poster on the wall. It means that the processes and policies in those those places respect us and treat us with dignity. [01:07:00] Hm. I, I think we need to We need to move. Thank you very much, Sandra. That's superb stuff. Thank you. We've now got Bella Simpson and I've got a five minute timer for the whole session. So this is, uh this has to be really short. We've got one [01:07:30] more speaker, and then we need to wrap and otherwise we'll be here until after lunch and someone else will miss out. I think the first thing to mention, though, is that this is the third time this week I've been asked to keep it short. So it's just a consecutive thing of young people asking to keep things short. So we need to remember that young people have a voice and I'm just gonna talk. So please, please. And I didn't have a written submission from [01:08:00] you for this panel. And the the priority has been given to those who did that. It's not about being a young person. Please talk. I'm not gonna take up your time by fighting with you. And I don't want to do that. Fine. Um OK, so, um, I'm 19. When I was 11, I came out as a young trans woman. So I've been through Primary Intermediate in high school, um, as an out trans woman tokenized and used to educate teachers and other staff members. So I've been through it all. I know what it's like. Um, and, um, [01:08:30] the statistics at the moment are that one in five young trans people are attempting suicide. These numbers are extremely high. Um, and they are. These young people are not feeling safe. They're not feeling supported, They're not feeling respected, and they're not feeling heard. There's a lack of education, um, and house classes. And there's just a lack of education in general, in schools. Um, so And like English and stuff, you'll never learn about any queer issues or any, um, queer pioneers. You'll always only [01:09:00] ever hear about this. This things. And, um so my question was, What are you guys doing about that? I do hear that Louisa and David, you guys are doing things, but at the same time, that's to a use voice and expecting you to give answers. So I don't really take that as a serious start, but it's a start. So, yeah, where should we start? Jackie, Um, I think I've been [01:09:30] really quite overwhelmed by all the submissions and the comments today to particularly everyone's submission, your submission as well. And I think, where do we start? I think Well, we've got to absolutely keep the government honest. Um, and this is part of what the HR C is doing today is facilitating. Um, officials are here in the audience, listening to the issues that you're raising, and it's clear that we need a whole of government approach, not just a siloed ministry at my ministry. It's not. And we are currently doing that, it seems, with the family violence, sexual [01:10:00] violence, it's doable. Um, and it needs the political will to do it. So, yeah, actually, I wanna give this a bit to Kevin because he's been doing a lot of work in terms of A and, um, holding our schools accountable to being IPs to the needs of our kids. Lewis, Um Thanks, Bob. Uh, so the project that, um, Lewis is talking about started with something we did called, um, how do we make it better? Which was [01:10:30] a project that looked at, uh, taking on that idea of It gets better. How could you make it better right now? What are the things that we would do? And, um, we identified the top priority as being improvement in schools, while some schools actually were doing actually a fantastic job, Um, that the there were also schools that were doing a really terrible job. How is that possible? You know, a state funded system. Um So what we did [01:11:00] last time was another report that said it was called How safe are schools? And it was. Some of you in the audience will have seen this report. It's an audit of error. It follows error around for for a six month period and then asks in each of these schools, how safe actually was the school? How well did it meet its requirement to provide a safe environment for all of its students, and in particular, we are interested in the [01:11:30] trans intersex, um, lesbian, gay and bisexual kids. What the report found was that, uh, while there were some great schools, something like 80% of schools did not provide a safe environment, and that was picked up by EO and precisely none of of the cases. So our our now our priority is around making EO, um [01:12:00] accountable for, uh, checking in every school that it goes to because that's the way that we can drive forward improvement. Any other panellists that have something to ask for contribute to Oh, well, I just I just wanted to highlight I mean, there was an article in the paper over the weekend about Onslow College and Wellington High and the quest straight Alliance groups for want of a better word, actually writing to the boards of trustees and now having, um, gender neutral bathrooms. But what it [01:12:30] seems to me is we're having a, um a a reactive system. So we actually have to rely on having the capacity within those schools, either from the teachers or the students to then, you know, go through a process. Um, what would be really good? And I just had this brainstorm because I think the adolescent research group that, um, doctor Terry and Clark, uh, is part of and she came out quite strongly last year in terms of these statistics. Um, it'd be really good if we did some modelling and told every school, actually, how many queer kids [01:13:00] they have because, you know that that is a potential way forward to say to every school. You should. You you have queer students as part of your student, um, group cohort for this year. What are you doing to ensure their safety? I don't know if how crazy an idea it is, but I was just thinking we should engage with our searches with the evidence to then hold because I you know the out in the fields report [01:13:30] that came out last year about the homophobia in sport. I mean, we've got a whole lot of, um, scientific evidence. Now, how do we use that to hold rugby union accountable, Sport New Zealand accountable, for example. And I think that's kind of the space that we're in. And the dissemination of that, um I think is part of the responsibility that we have. Uh, look, I, I won't take any time except to say that, uh, I think it is important that [01:14:00] ero changes its policy. And as a cross party group, we've committed to achieving that. I realise that that in itself will not change the world, but, uh, in politics, you can't lose what you don't have. And that's one small thing that I think we're pretty committed to to getting done this year. Uh, as a cross-party group. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I think we're we've We're out of time for the submission. Thank you for your for your forbearance. Um, Bella, I appreciate that You probably had a lot more to say. Um, but thank you very much. And panellists, [01:14:30] Thank you for your keeping it short. Please. Um, give Bella a round of the, um, same rules will apply to Eliana Rubashkin, who is coming to the microphone. Um, we've got a strict five minutes going on you as well, So please take it away. Everyone, uh, I'm going to be very brief, and I'm going to focus on the refugees and the refugee issue. I think it's very important [01:15:00] since having been spoken here, uh, the intersex issue, that is something that affects my my personally, uh, as an Intersect woman. Uh, I just want to focus that, uh, it need to be clear for you guys to understand that one thing is sexual orientation. One other thing is gender identity. One other thing is gender expression, and other one is sexual characteristics. Because if you want to put all as a whole in the anti discrimination bill and you don't include sexual characteristics, we intersex people will be out of this anti discrimination bill. [01:15:30] OK? Because I know it's very hard to put in put in put and nouns behind, but, uh, there is intersex people that they are not transgender, that they are not. They don't have any particular sexual orientation or they don't have any particular gender expression. So they just would be out of this. And we need also to be protected. OK, Secondly, um, you know, like I mean health care issues, as they are so difficult for for trans people, they are even more difficult for intersex people [01:16:00] when there is not even a single doctor in the entire country that is able to understand your condition. And then all the limitations that we have in this case is like trans people. They are fighting for quality of care and many intersex people. They are just fighting for having the right to see at least one doctor. You know, like I mean all these kind of things that we need to consider. And now that is what I'm here speaking like here that it is focusing on the refugees. Uh, I'm a former refugee, and I was, uh I came to New Zealand almost 23 [01:16:30] years ago as a refugee, uh, from China. I was in a refugee camp in China and and I think it's very important and I want to encourage you guys, especially from the Green Party to force or to create a policy in relation to the refugee quota to force to specifically allocate a percentage for LGBTI refugees accepted into New Zealand. Because it's it's sad to see [01:17:00] that when I came to New Zealand, I was the first ever transgender or gender diverse person accepted as a refugee. That was for me, shocking when we are easily the most vulnerable segments of any society and I mean right now Syria is having such a very difficult time. I'm sure that a transgender person interest as gay lesbian within this conflict is 1000 times more vulnerable to any sort of things and and we are not [01:17:30] paying attention to those refugees. You know, we just pay attention to something else. We are fighting here for being, you know, for equality, for the right to be represented, protected. But we are ignoring those ones who are really having a terrible time because even when we are refugees and we are in a refugee camp, you cannot imagine what is to be a refugee within refugees because that's what we have. We have to suffer the most disgusting treatment within a refugee camp and many things that I will discuss later But, [01:18:00] you know, I just really want you guys to focus on that and also assist refugees that are already resettled in New Zealand, especially LGBTI to get their lives back. Because, for instance, I am a stateless as as Jack was mentioning that many people have problems like I'm not a New Zealand citizen. I have New Zealand permanent residency. I lost my citizenship for all these stupid things. Bureaucratic ignorance related to my gender, my gender identity. I'm here in New Zealand. This is the only place I can live and [01:18:30] stay, and I don't have a passport. If I want to have a surgery, I need to first be a citizen, then to have a passport, then to travel to Thailand to have my sex correction surgery. And I don't think it's fair. It's not fair that I have to do such a thing just first becoming a New Zealand citizen. So and then you have the money, the funds to then go to Thailand. You know all these kind of limitations that many refugees face. And just lately I saw that Luisa Wall was the one that was advocating [01:19:00] for the the marriage bill, and I got married here with my husband. Um, it was really a beautiful moment to marry my husband. And just it was shocking that when I marry my husband, people don't even know if it's considered a same sex marriage. It's like because you know, I'm intersect. So how do you really? There's no way to identify this marriage is like a marriage. But they put my my name, my my name of my birth certificate in my marriage [01:19:30] certificate. And I'm I'm ashamed to showing one of the most beautiful moments of my life. I'm afraid to To share to everyone I cannot share. I cannot share to my family, the family of my husband or someone else. My birth, my marriage certificate just because my name is there. So all these things beautiful job you did. But look, all these blanks, you know, that create these kind of things where you are getting someone ashamed. Ok, thank you so much. [01:20:00] Thank you. Please, just briefly, I'll keep my my summing up. Very brief. Um, but very briefly. Is there any response to the issue of LGBTI refugees and any commitments? Any questions? No, Um I just wanted to say I have been working with, um, a human rights advocate in Australia. Um, that, uh, there are, um, LGBTI, uh, people, [01:20:30] um, in Nauru. And, um, actually, I had a talk to Jill about this earlier. I'm going to see Dame Susan, who I think has been really strident, and, um, advocating not only for increased, uh, refugee quota for New Zealand, but also that, uh, human rights issues, uh, should be part of the criteria for who we take. Um, but I do want to say we don't, um, specify who [01:21:00] we take I. I said on the Foreign Affairs Committee last year, and there were quite a few Christian groups, um, in a petition for us to take Christians specifically from Syria because of the persecution. But in New Zealand, our position is never to identify who we take, but, uh, we can take different groups based on the circumstances and through human rights considerations, which I support 100%. Unless there [01:21:30] is something pressing. I'm going to say thank you so much to, um, Eliana for her presentation to the panellists for their response. Please give very good and thank you. Um, I'm going to do a very brief summing up. I'm gonna cut that short because I had a pretty pretty busy opening. Um, so I'm not going to talk. I'm not going to summarise the issues that have been raised. You've heard them all these will be included in the the report [01:22:00] that goes to the conference organisers and will feed into ongoing work. Um, what I will briefly reflect on is the process and some of the things that I've taken from the submitters about the process one and from the panellists. Actually, as Lewis has said, we have the access. We've got the community, the commission, the cross parliamentary group. We should be able to do something with that alliance. We need to move forward together, Um, process from the communities. Uh, nothing about [01:22:30] us without us. Um, that's a critical element on the way forward. And please don't forget and in fact reference and give honour to the work that's already been done because it's still relevant. OK, it's not just reports sitting on a shelf somewhere, Uh, and so when we bring up another issue, there's already work that's been done. Um, and it's not just about legislation, but it's about how the rules are actually applied. And what can we do to work together on [01:23:00] that element of things as well? I'd like to thank you all for being here, taking part in this as the audience, but in particular I'd like to thank you who were the submitters that put a huge amount of effort into bringing the issues up before our panel. Thank you very much for that. It's It's very brave staff to actually nail colour the mask and stand up in front of your peers and in front of a parliamentary group. So well done. Thank you. [01:23:30] And thank you very, very much to our panellists. David Seymour, Dennis O'Rourke, Lesa Wall Doctor, Jackie Blue and Kevin Hague. Please give them a wonderful round of applause.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags