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How would you describe your identity? Um, I would say that I'm gay. Um, but in recent years, I'd actually say I'm more bisexual. Do you want to talk a bit about that? Um that came from I came. I come from in cargo and growing up there and identifying pretty early on that I was very attracted to women. Um, was hard, but, you know, typical small town kind of chat. [00:00:30] So to kind of self preserve, I came out as a lesbian to kind of Lee way away from or kind of like draw the line in the sand in relation to some of the males down there that are quite not really coping with, um, homosexuality in any way. So it was kind of like, yeah, saying that I was gay when I was younger was a lot easier to deal with for a lot of the public. Um, after coming to university and kind [00:01:00] of getting to know different people and being more involved in the queer scene and things like that, I realise that I'm probably actually just bisexual, but it's a lot easier for some people's stomach. You're telling them that you're a lesbian. cool. That's really, like, interesting narrative because often people like tell the story the other way, like when they come out as bisexual first, to kind of get through that. Yeah, Yeah, that was actually advice from my parents that I got [00:01:30] like because they were totally fine. They were so fine with the fact that I was gay. It was great. I have beautiful parents, but, um, my dad was quite worried that there was quite a stigma to bisexual girls, that it was quite like I don't mean it's an offence in any way, but a lot of people almost don't take them seriously when they're younger, like it's almost, I don't know, like I write a passage for young ladies. And so my dad was like, Maybe you should commit and go the whole way because, like, you know, [00:02:00] you can, you can always come back. It's fine. It's no big deal. So it was a lot easier, and it actually in hindsight was probably the best thing I could have done because I was the only gay person in a school of 2000 people, which is not true, which is not true for you when you came out. What kind of reaction did you get at school? Great. Like girlfriends were just wonderful. Just wonderful. Like obviously nobody. You get the occasional girl, that's a little bit [00:02:30] like, Oh, shit. She's been lovely. Sorry for swearing. Um, that, you know, they think that you're naturally or innately attracted to every single girl because you are queer. Um, but on the whole, it was pretty wonderful. They were really cool. There was always a little bit of a stigma, or like a fetishizing from some of the males, like some of the guys. But I had already built up a pretty good rapport with a lot of my friends and a lot of the guys around the school and things like that. So it wasn't [00:03:00] It didn't become like the part of me. It wasn't what I was known as. I was known as other things around the school. So, you know, it was just a branch of my personality. So I was pretty lucky in, I think, because I imagine a lot of people had a lot worse around down there. Yeah. Did you experience any kind of homophobia at school? Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah, um, nothing massive. Nothing that I can even relate to people that have actually probably experienced homophobia and bullying. But I [00:03:30] You know, of course, I got the, like, fag and like, and stuff like that often it was actually from younger people. It was actually commonly from, like, the 3rd and 4th forms, even when I was seventh form. Like, just these little plots that just don't even, you know, fully grasp it or understand it. And they just associate the word gay with negative connotations. And so when they find out that somebody is gay, [00:04:00] they assume that that is, like, a bad thing. So hopefully they've grown up, You know, they're 18 or 20 now, so hopefully they know what the great game means. Um, now, the biggest amount of homophobia I've ever had was actually around university. Wow. What was that like? Um, it wasn't bad. It was in first year, and it was from a young man, and he was [00:04:30] in the same hall as me. And he was a lovely, lovely guy, and I don't think he actually realised what he was doing. Um, he when he found out that I was gay. He almost took it upon himself to make me strike. Like it was like a little bit of, you know, his deal for the rest of the year. I don't know how to describe it, but he he was a lot like I actually as [00:05:00] a human being. I don't have much against him, But just how he spoke to me and treated me was very, very derogatory. And he commonly touched me really inappropriately in public and things like that, which made me very uncomfortable. Um, I think and I don't want to stigmatise or, like, put these people in a basket. But he was also a very religious Christian boy, and I think he thought he was doing me a little bit of a favour, [00:05:30] which was lovely in a way. But, um, it was also very demeaning and horrible the whole time. Um, but to be honest, yeah, around uni is actually where I've gotten the most, like, just walking a couple of weeks ago with my girlfriend across the park. We got Liz. Be honest. Yelled at us. We were holding hands, for goodness sake. Um, it was just Yeah, it's pretty incredible. I guess because [00:06:00] people have more guts at this age, and they're also commonly filled with liquid courage of alcohol. But yeah, definitely have had a lot more kind of, you know, hoopla yelled at me at car windows nowadays. No. Um, are you involved much in the kind of stuff and support that's going on at the university? To be honest, not not at all. Um, when [00:06:30] I came out of cargo, there was nothing. There was nothing really there still was it quiet? Mind you if you try to get down there. Good luck. Um, so there was really I never really got tied into it from a young age. And then when I came to university, I think it was a part of me that was always a little bit scared of being too associated with it. And it's becoming something that kind of defined me as a human being. So for the first four years, [00:07:00] I've been here for six. Now, for the first four years of uni, I kind of hid from it almost like I in relation to the support centre here, like this beautiful, beautiful place. And these beautiful people like I'd never go to queer events or anything like that. I have massive respect for everybody that does. I do now a lot more now, but I'm definitely not involved in relation to it. It's it again, I think was another, like, self preserving thing, a way to maybe make people [00:07:30] not identify me as closely with it. Which in hindsight, was, you know, it's quite a not a regret, but something that I wish I could change because it's so wonderful. Um, it's so cool to feel like I'm such a family. Um, yeah, the I prefer to associate, I think, with people that didn't I don't know how to put it. I guess [00:08:00] it was almost as though this is gonna sound terrible. Oh, my God. Um, it was almost as though I was like a tiny bit homophobic in myself, Like not in any way that I was. I'm very proud, like I'm very gay, like I would tell anybody, like as soon as I came out at 16, 17, 18, 19, like, it just didn't change throughout my life. But it was just that I think I was a little bit too scared of the reality of, like [00:08:30] actually identifying with that rainbow flag and how that would affect me in kind of like social situations or in jobs or things like that. And that is all a myth, which I worked out very fast Now, so you kind of people kind of get put in or something like that. Yeah, but I I'd tell them when I was gay, but I just wouldn't ever let them see me in. Kind of like a [00:09:00] yay gay way, Unfortunately. So you said over the last couple of years he started going along to some and stuff. What kind of changed for you? What kind of change is that? I actually made friends that were gay. So the big difference was that the I didn't know anybody who was gay. I knew a few people, but, you know, they weren't strong, like, strong in their beliefs or in relation to, like, you know, advocating for it. And up here, I met some wonderful, [00:09:30] wonderful girls at work and really beautiful guys and just kind of got immersed a little bit more. I just you know that when they asked me if I was going to these events and I said, you know, like, Oh, no. And I had no reason why I wasn't. You know, I quickly kind of learned that I speak a bit of a, um and I Yeah, I missed out on it a lot because of it, but no I. I go [00:10:00] to a lot of events like the Ah, to be honest, I'm still a little bit shy in relation to them. Like this is making me sweat pounds that we're just talking about it. But, um, I go to a lot of more. Maybe the night events, like clubbing and things like that around town. But I'm still like I went to I've been to one coffee queue. That was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. And I like to think that I'm quite like a good social person, like I'm literally [00:10:30] employed as I don't even care if people know, like who I am. Just so you know, on this, um, I'm literally employed as, like, a communicator, so I like take tos. I'm paid to talk and stuff like that, but, um, when it came to like a situation where I was like put in a room and had to just like chat to these people. They had, like, similar narratives in life or like underlying narratives. It was just terrifying because I felt like I had marginalised them myself for the last, like, four or five years, [00:11:00] so don't know. I was It's It was good, though very, very humbling experience, and I'm glad that I go to them now. Do you say it as an important thing to you personally to have that kind of sense of like, like, you say, family or like community? Now that you've been to some definitely like, there's definitely something that you need to identify outside of yourself? Um, you need to find strength in other people. Um, obviously, you need strength in [00:11:30] yourself 100% but there's a massive weighting and importance on family and kind of like just having, like a community or a culture to fall back on because not everything was coaching way. And there are people in the world that are still homophobic, then things like that. Unfortunately, so you know, having human beings that understand on a different level, even though you know, maybe they've been through different things as well, [00:12:00] it's just No, it's terrific. It's like, yeah, it's made me feel so much more confident in myself having it cool. Um, have you been involved in or have you, like, obviously, just like people finding that community and stuff more like online, like through social media? Yeah. Um, I've actually Yeah, I definitely have. It's like social media is wonderful, isn't it? Um, the [00:12:30] internet is wonderful because it's like this gateway for people to be able to look it up. And actually, I, I almost wish that it had been way more present when I was young because maybe it would have been less of it. Idiot. But, um, the I've seen lots of my friends and by lots, I mean, like, maybe two or three, be able to actually come to terms with the sexuality a lot easier through using the Internet. And it's because they have this feedback system or something that they can go to and look and search and see [00:13:00] all these, like positive signs without actually having to, like, kind of sit in front of another human being and say these words like they don't have to completely vocalise it yet It's almost like, you know, testing the waters kind of thing, which is awesome, like and it's I've seen it help those couple of people, which is really, really cool. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff out there, Actually, at the moment when you were first, like realising that you were gay. Um, what kind of [00:13:30] messages had you got about that from society, Do you think? Um, so I like mainly just negligible. Like I hadn't had hugely homophobic or I hadn't had hugely positive, like the one thing that actually sticks with me that my mom said one day that she won't even remember saying like it was when I was really young. We were just watching TV and I remember asking her this. I [00:14:00] had that the process had made no connection in my mind that I was gay. But I just asked her what she thought about gay people and she said, Oh, no, they're fine. They're totally fine, just as long as they don't wave their flag and my thanks like kind of thing. So she wasn't she was meaning like they're fine. They just need to live their lives out. But she just just to check in case she uses. My mom was wonderful, and she absolutely would wave a rainbow flag Now, um, but that was kind of I guess it sums it up pretty well in relation [00:14:30] to how I grew up. Like it was fine as long as you kind of keep to yourself. And you didn't really let people know, Um, which is not that healthy because it took, like, to actually identify within myself That I was gay was actually, like, I have one of those, like, actual epiphany kind of moments, which was really cool. But I imagine how many people [00:15:00] get the pleasure of that. Um, I had always known I'd like girls. I always, like, always had crushes. I'm pretty sure my parents picked up on them very early on, like, I'd just be infatuated with these women. And it took, like, my fifth form PE teacher doing health, saying that men, they're like men are gay and women, they're like women are lesbian. It took her to say, like that physical sentence in front of me to be like holy shit, [00:15:30] like I am a lesbian, like that's what that means. So I guess like the fact that it was never really acknowledged. Makes it a little bit harder. So, yeah, I haven't really grown up in homophobic or a positive like homosexual area. OK, it was great. Do you think it's hard being a queen and in the South Island? Um, I never really fully [00:16:00] thought about that. I think often it's just situation dependent and where you are, like anywhere in New Zealand, that is quite isolated, I imagine will be hard. Um, I think potentially, but purely because of the fact that we have one quarter of the population size, so a lot less of a pool to kind of dip from in relation to diversity. I think where [00:16:30] I am currently so in the student area of Otago is probably the cesspool of it all. So I imagine that I'm actually in, you know, a bit of a area that is unimaginable for most of the rest of the South Island in relation to kind of like queer community. So I have a bit of a rosy 10 of glasses of beer at all. Um, I think South Island on a whole, though probably [00:17:00] yeah is a lot hotter than the North Island that I haven't spent enough time out there to be able to actually, you know, give you a proper answer. And when you were living in in the cargo, did you, um, ever manage to meet any other queer people or have any relationships with girl? Yeah, I Yeah, I did. I had a couple of different relationships. Um, one of them went for a little while with [00:17:30] a girl just a year older than me. She was lovely and wonderful. In hindsight, I think it was a bit of her. Oh, I don't know. I don't know how to put that, because we we don't really talk that much anymore. But we've got nothing but good blood. But it was a never acknowledged relationship external to us. And so in hindsight, it doesn't feel that genuine on her part. Um, I had, [00:18:00] like, a couple of things with girls, but they were also quite like maybe them testing the waters or just, you know, definitely toes in. But that wasn't at all sexual. Just so you know, um, yeah, that was pretty much it. It was pretty negligible down there in relation to, like, actual relationships. [00:18:30] How did you meet people? Um gay people, but yeah, like school. School. Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. No. And none of them. Are they still down? One of them know that they are all very strict. Yeah, according to their life choices. Yes. No. And did you ever see, like, any [00:19:00] queer people publicly and as a couple, like on the street like No, never, never. Um yeah, that was actually a phenomenon that I had to like, weirdly overcome when I came here. Like seeing gay people holding hands was bizarre, even to me. And that was something that I was quite ashamed of When I felt like when I seen kind of like the first gay guy couple walking down the street holding hands, it felt weird. [00:19:30] And it was purely just because of exposure. Like it's beautiful, but yeah. No. You never seen anything other than no, um, what do you think about the way, um, queer and trans people represented in the media? I feel like media is kind of also like news books, movies to me. Well, like in the recent years, especially with the whole marriage we're going through. Just beautiful. Like it's amazing. It's [00:20:00] so cool. You even see stories occasionally on stuff and things like that, where that's not even the forefront of the story lane. They'll be chatting about a wedding. And then it's not until you're like, you know, looking through all the photos or like reading through you just like, Oh, it's actually two women's names or like something like that, you it doesn't even click. And it's not something that they have to sell stories with anymore, which is terrific and how it should be. Um, [00:20:30] when I was younger, though, there was definitely a lot less. Um, are there any characters or storylines you found in the media that, um, you can personally identify with, um, not that I've personally, really notice to this in the recent years. Um, this Alison Moore had a pretty beautiful storyline that I guess the only [00:21:00] reason I see me identify with it because she's a woman. Um and I, um, things like that. But what about like T like TV shows or movies to see that hold on? Um, no. Like there was never really, you know, a massive to me. Maybe, but maybe it was just like the media that I was exposed to, but That's one thing that I have actually [00:21:30] talk to some people about is that you know you, you've you It's never really completely been present in the media. Maybe it's just more recently today that it's just there or it's a thing. Um, no, not that I noticed. Um, so you mentioned the marriage equality before. How do you feel about that person? Awesome. [00:22:00] Awesome. So good. It was this bizarre, like, euphoric feeling, um, that I never thought I'd have over it because I'd always like As soon as I acknowledged that I was gay, I'd kind of automatically stamped out that idea. And I was like, No, well, it's just not gonna happen. You're not gonna get married. And I almost to a point, got a little bit aggressive internally about it, cause I was just so like, you know, it's [00:22:30] a Christian, were originally pagan like it's a It's a thing that is like stemmed from a society that has always been the one that has stigmatised homosexuality. So, you know, naturally, I didn't really want to get married, but when it went through, it was like this opportunity that I'd never even processed, and it's wonderful like it's so cool and it's [00:23:00] I still don't know whether I will get married or not. But it makes me really happy that people that have, you know, being together for 40 or 50 years, and they've never been allowed that acknowledgement that they have the same love as my parents. You know, they're allowed to get married, and they should have always been allowed to get married. So I think it's a massive deal for New Zealand. It's beautiful. Did you, um, write a submission or celebrate it when [00:23:30] the third reading passed? Um, I did write a submission, and I was pretty excited when it passed. I actually hang out with one of my queer friends that I knew, Um, when it all happened, I wrote on stuff about it, actually a couple of months ago, and I even use my own name and everything to, like, identify with it. And it was probably one of the most like, liberating experiences of my life to, like, [00:24:00] be able to, you know, put my name to this object that was just 100% gay and just very open, like, um so I think Yeah, maybe that Bill has done a lot for me than I even realise. Did you get, um, positive responses to what? You Yeah, of course. Yeah, Massively. Um, I was more writing on the idea that, like, [00:24:30] I was very, very stoked, and I was very excited about it going through, um, but more looking to the day that it's not a it's it's not a thought process like homosexuality is not even a thought process. It's just another thing that is occurring in society. So I got, I think, a little bit of mixed feedback. But I got a lot of positive feedback, which was really, really cool, So yeah, yeah, that was wonderful. [00:25:00] What do you think it's going to be like in the future in New Zealand for like, say, in 10 years, for like, um, I feel like it's gonna be pretty chilled in relation to a lot of things? Um, I think there will be a lot more foundations and support centres. There'll be a lot more commonly acknowledged and known. There'll be a lot less, um, people hanging out cars and yelling at me while I walk on the street. All the younger people, [00:25:30] um, I also think and hope that the word gay is eradicated. Um, it's wolf gay in relation to stupid. Um, that's just something that I think the next generation needs to really like. Champion, because that's so bad. It's so disgusting. Um, so hopefully, yeah, in [00:26:00] 10 years, I'd love to be able to see that gone. But I'd also love to be able to see as much as I want to see, like, more roots and more laid down and more support centres. I'd love for it to almost just be assimilated into, like, society. So list needing to be in like, I don't know, B is advocating for it because we are now just we are on the level we [00:26:30] call. So yeah, maybe more acknowledgement that we're just beautiful. And there's no need for, you know, equality. But because we have it, Yeah. Don't know. Fascinating question about, um So those are your hopes are kind of where we as a community and what are your, like, hopes personally for your like Oh, God, What are you going to do after you finished your Well, I actually just I just enter in my masters [00:27:00] on Monday. So big question now. So really, Have you studied zoology and genetics? Yeah, so it was really fun, but Oh, God. Um, I I want to travel a lot. I'd love to see the world, and actually, I see me. A part of the travelling is that I would love to see how other people in the world live as gay people. And I've always had this affinity with living in Africa or living [00:27:30] on, like, a big gay national park or something like that. And I think part of it is because I almost want to be like, you know, like, my sexuality hasn't changed anything, and they shouldn't change where I'm allowed to work in the world and where I'm allowed to. You know, where I've always been passionate about. So I've always wanted to go over there. But it's intriguing because even today [00:28:00] I'm talking to you in this room about how wonderful it is in New Zealand and how I've got a marriage bill and things like that. But when I go to these countries to potentially work, I'm gonna have to completely, you know, like hide it, um, for legal reasons, not just for like, you know, stigma reasons, So yeah, like I my future is really exciting. And I can't wait to go and see these different things [00:28:30] and maybe potentially be a little bit humbled in relation to how good I've got it here in New Zealand with my family and friends and things like that. But as much as I say that we still have, you know, a long way to go in New Zealand before I'm happy that I'm 100% kind of equal in society and things like that. So maybe I'll learn some tricks if you could give a message, um, to that poor young person and in the cargo [00:29:00] he's not out. What would it be? Um, just that it gets better. I mean, it's it is shit. I'm so sorry. It's it's horrible right now, um, that, you know, you are, You're Yeah, you're totally fine. You're OK. And you are kind of it doesn't define you. [00:29:30] And don't let people think that it does. Like it's a wonderful, beautiful part of you that you should be very proud of, but you should never let people kind of isolate you as a result of it. Um, don't know sexuality is a hard thing in [00:30:00] a small town. Just Yeah, maybe tell somebody that you trust was pretty much it and to finish up. What's your favourite thing about being a young gay person in New Zealand? What was that? A gay gay person in the world. Um um, favourite thing. Oh, my girlfriend? Um, yeah. No, definitely. [00:30:30] God, she's hot. But, um, beyond that I'd say just the sheer beauty and kind of, like love and respect for it. But again, maybe I'm just in the right places. Um, there's just New Zealand is in such a good place at the moment for it. And I think it's [00:31:00] I just love the fact that I'm It's just a normal part of my day now. It's just a normal part of my day and my boss knows and she doesn't care, and she loves it. She will ask me about my girlfriend. My girlfriend actually works at work with me, and it's not even a they'd all ever been in an acknowledgement of anything like people, they'll be like, Oh, are you dating? And we say, Yes. There's no further conversation kind of thing. Um, so [00:31:30] I just love being young and gay and kind of I love the idea that I'm just another beautiful couple in New Zealand that everybody acknowledges.
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