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How would you describe your identity? Fully Gay. And, um, apart from that do you think the language that we use to talk about sexual orientation has changed much over the last 20 years? From what I've read, it has definitely changed over the years. But that's mostly due to, of course, the acceptance that we have for the now cities and stuff. Um, when did you first become aware that you were gay? Roughly [00:00:30] around the age of 15? What was that like? How did you figure that out? Extremely confusing, Uh, but eventually figured it out mainly, uh, due to high school locker rooms. Can you remember any kind of like messages you got from society about what it meant to be gay when you were growing up? Um, well, during high school, I wasn't out at all. But judging by my peers and friends, et cetera, [00:01:00] how they acted towards the out members of our school Very, very negative. What kind of things did you see? A lot of bullying, name calling, exclusion, etcetera. Um, so that that definitely turned me off. Um, coming out in high school. I waited till after college. In fact, Yeah. Why do you think it took you so well? Definitely dealing [00:01:30] with people around me, just having that confidence in myself to overcome what people would would or conceivably say to me. Yeah, Um, were people kind of assuming things or like judging you being homophobic towards you before you came out? Um, no, I was completely a good me. Did you, like, do anything to kind of Oh, I tried hinting. I tried hinting, but no one seemed to get the message that it wasn't until I actually said it to a lot of my [00:02:00] friends that they had any idea. And then they were just thinking, Wow, that makes so much sense. It was like signs and all that jazz. What kind of reactions did you get when you did come out? I lost a lot of friends. Um, mainly my primary friend group were all very anti change. So they didn't like the fact that I was one person one day and another person another when in reality, I was always the same person. Are you up to your family? Yes. How did they? Um my sisters didn't care. They were sort of very, very cool [00:02:30] about it. They love me for it. Um, my parents pretty much the same story. My mother, however, did have an interesting reaction where she sort of treated me like I had an illness for several months afterwards and like, it was something to be cured. And then there's my brother who is not on speaking terms with myself anymore. Of course. What kind of things is he? Well, uh, the day I came out to him, he [00:03:00] decided the appropriate reaction was to assault me outside a nightclub in Christchurch, which was lovely. You can imagine sitting in a bar with a bleeding face, police, or, like anyone stick that really terrible. Have you experienced, um, much other kind of homophobia, like on the street or, um, in bars? I've definitely experienced a bit of, um, homophobia, but never never physical. Um, [00:03:30] it's it wasn't really homophobia. Like, I think you're disgusting. It's more of I think you're checking me out. Sort of, um, vibe. And it's mainly, um, straight males that find us straight. Females. They're lovely. They can treat us interestingly. Um, do you find it correct? Like, is it Is it scary? Is it? Do you feel safe going out at night and stuff if you observe much other kind of homophobia [00:04:00] or 10 phobia to people in Christchurch. Definitely transphobia. Um, mainly it's people not quite understanding what's going on, using different pro, using the wrong pronouns, and, um, saying they're just playing dress up and stuff like that, but mainly homophobia. When it comes to people around Christchurch, I tend to avoid the ones that would quite obviously, um, present a problem. Like, for instance, um, the car junkies of that area [00:04:30] for those who are in the future. We call them Bogans for future reference. Uh, they they're quite stereotypically aggressive, and it's it's very ideal to avoid bringing up the subject to these people. Um, did you grow up in Christchurch? I was born in a but was raised in Christchurch. Do you think it's harder being all trains in the South Island? Well, I wouldn't know the North Island, but I have. I have travelled there once or twice, [00:05:00] and it definitely seems like our community there is a much larger thing than it is down here in Christchurch. Um, when you're at high school, do you get any kind of education about sexual orientation or gender, your health classes or anything like that with the school support of people being bullied or anything. Well, the main memory of, um, this health education that they have, um, regarding towards sexuality, we did an exercise, um, theory, exercise where, um, each person would [00:05:30] book the class as a whole, would treat it as if we were in a universe where strength was the, um, the parents anomaly. And, um, that being gay was completely normal. That was that was the bog standard thing that you could be That was thought exercise. And it was quite interesting to see how people reacted when they were approached by this. You know, some of the insults that they tried to think of were quite funny. Did people kind of get into it? Yeah. After a while, [00:06:00] it was apprehensive. The people were very apprehensive to get into it, but, um, after a wee while they were quite comfortable dealing with it was like a helpful kind of exercise. Definitely. Um, unfortunately, they did wait till we were in our final year of high school to do this, which was lovely. So the vibe only changed to a very, very small portion of our high school as the final year in our high school was definitely the smallest. Um And so what did you go on to do after high school? Well, I went to CPO T and [00:06:30] studied engineering, which I, uh, passed last year. And now I'm in the workforce. Um, did you experience much kind of homophobia? There were you out and, um, CPO T. Uh, definitely minimal homophobia. I wasn't out to my classmates because I believed it would propose a problem, mainly with many of them being from different cultures. I wouldn't quite know how they would respond to it, so I avoided the topic. Um, And what's your job? I'm [00:07:00] a designer. I design chocolate boxes to be printed and manufactured. Um, and are you out at work? Yes. How's that? Um, I'm sort of treated as the token. What's that like? Ah, um, the humour regarding it is quite interesting. It's not quite offensive, but it is. You'd see the way that they act towards another workmate. And then the jokes that they'd prefer towards you would be of a complete different variety and worse, as if they'd spent several minutes thinking [00:07:30] about it. 63. Um, have you been involved? Been involved with any of the kind of queer events or community groups in Christchurch. Um, I belong to a queer youth group called Utopia, and I frequent that place quite often. Um, is it important for you to have kind of a sense of community? And definitely, judging by the strides that we've made in the in the past decade alone, I felt almost obliged to [00:08:00] take part in at least some events, Feeling like I'd been taking a lot of them for granted. Do you see, um, Facebook and other kind of social media sites, um, playing more of a part in the way that we meet other queer people and connect with them? Regrettably. So what do you mean by that? Well, um, in my experience, I've encountered quite a lot of people on Facebook, mainly where they've actually been actively hunting queer people mainly [00:08:30] for sexual purposes. And you can be contacted by some quite mischievous characters. Why do you think it is that people are kind of resorting to that? Because it's easy. It's quite hard roaming bars, thinking which one is he? Um, so if you wanted to, or if you have in the past wanted to, like, meet somebody for a relationship, What would you do? No, I just stick to my normal routine of travelling through [00:09:00] social events and nightclubs and very nightlife places. And eventually you meet someone you don't. It's a little bit almost sour trying to contact them through an app or social media because you you definitely puts a damper on the relationship immediately into it. And you're thinking the entire time. Wow. I met you on this app, and I was using this app for this great story here. How [00:09:30] do you feel about the equality Bill that passed last year? Excellent. I remember the day it happened. I had a big party. Did you write a submission? No. Did you write a submission on the film? And is it something that you want to do personally? I. I would definitely consider marrying my partner in the near future. Um, have you followed or been involved much in any other kind of political activism around queer stuff in New Zealand? Um, not specifically queer [00:10:00] stuff, def. Definitely. Utopia. And a lot of other, Um, for instance, the AIDS Foundation. I've been, um, around, but, uh, not not specifically politically focused. No more of a social concept. What do you think about the way you super represented in the media? I believe that we're stereotyped to some degree. Um, music and other pop culture has definitely put a little bit [00:10:30] of a handicap on us. Um, not negatively, but negatively in the same manner. For instance, um, the GB F gay best friend For those in the future, you don't quite get that one. it's quite common, for if I meet some random lady in a bar for her once she finds out to immediately say, Oh, we should be best friends and go shopping and all that jazz and the entire time it it almost [00:11:00] like you're treated like an accessory To some people, it's it's quite heartbreaking being treated like that. Do you think people, um, treat you and other gay men that way? Because because of how their men are portrayed in the media. Definitely. Um, like, for instance, most TV shows and stuff they, the gay character in that is definitely quite effeminate. Um, which not all gay people in this world are as you can quite tell, um, and they're also treated like, oh, they love [00:11:30] fashion. They know fashion and all that jazz. But I, I don't know. Think about fashion. Um, do you identify with any kind of subculture in the gay community or do you think many people you want to do with them? Um, there's definitely a lot of classism going on where people try to fit each other into a class like a twink bear otter, et cetera. Um, what do those words mean? Um, a twink and [00:12:00] which is actually quite a very bad word to call someone, you know, you don't call them to their face. It's very annoying. Um, it's about a very feminine, smallest sized male who's, you know, clean skin. Fabulous sort. A bear would be a larger male, generally with quite a lot of weight on them, who is very hairy. And an otter is, of course, somewhere in the middle. Um, do you see any, like pressure to be put into those categories or people [00:12:30] try and put you into one? Definitely. When I was entering the community, it was, um, knowing all these things that were there. I almost thought that I was obliged to find my way into a little bit of the niche, just so I had that as a basis rather than just being myself as I travelled throughout, Um, has there been any characters or storylines and movies or TV and books that you, um, have been able to relate to or have your identity reflected in? Well, I watched a movie, [00:13:00] Um, several months ago, it was called, um GB F, as I mentioned before. Um, now, this movie wasn't quite what you would think immediately, but it was. It was more about how people are being treated like accessories and the characters and were actually very well written, and you could very relate to them. But they they were rather stereotypical. In the end of the day, what would you like to see more of in the in You? A variety in homosexual? Definitely. It's quite boring seeing [00:13:30] the same one over and over again. Um, have there been any kind of musicians or books or anything like that within the community that have been meaningful to you? Not specifically. No. Have you had any? Um Well, I, I would just like to call him my go. Actually, um, in the future, there's a gay coach. Now, it's quite common in the gay community to adopt an older gay male to who already knows [00:14:00] a lot of the tricks of the trade, as it were to, um, teach him. And mine would be Daniel, who I was friends with for many years before he moved up north. How did you meet him? Or get adopted? Um, I believe we met in a bar somewhere. He He was, uh, roughly about 35 at the time. And naturally, I didn't really want to sleep with the 35 year old, but it was It was quite good knowing him, [00:14:30] especially with that expertise being there. What kind of things did he teach you? Um, how to be safe? Definitely. Um, both through, um, S TT protection and, um, physical protection, I how to avoid getting into conflict and other such I've never heard of a go. Oh, well, well, when When you have a go, you are the protege. Yeah. It's definitely a play on words of the term protege, but [00:15:00] so that's quite common. It's quite common in my experience. Yes. Not everyone uses that uses that terminology, but it is definitely quite common. If someone wanted to, um, get a go to how would they go about doing it carefully? It's a lot of bad apples out there that, like younger guys, and you can definitely fall into a few traps of that. But as a whole, it's definitely a nice thing to have. If you do manage to find that person, however, they are quite rare. Um, what advice [00:15:30] would you give to other, um, young gay people about staying safe? Pick your battles? Definitely. Um, but just look at someone, and it's horrible to say, but stereotype them and just try and focus on what that group would be against. So, for instance, if you saw a guy in a hoodie and baggy jeans a shaved head, you don't really want to go and talk to them about your boyfriend, [00:16:00] OK? Do you have any, um, queer friends? Uh, definitely a lot. But most of them were obtained through the community, and and, uh, yeah, they're not not my main friend group, but def. Definitely a lot of boy friends. Do you think the, um, queer community gets kind of divided up into kind of like gay, like at least like queer women. Yes, yes, definitely. Um, we have a social drink [00:16:30] well used to. I believe it's ended here in Christchurch. And, um, there is one that I attended last, and there's definitely one main group that goes to one bar, and that's all the game in. And there's another group, um, from the same community. They it's the lesbians who go to a different bar. And I believe this was some description of argument between the two main people who organised it, and they ended up going to two different places. What do you think about that? Definitely perpetuates a little [00:17:00] bit of a conflict between gay men and lesbians. Like, I remember seeing in a TV show called, um, Modern family. You've seen it, uh, where? Um, one of the characters is explaining the relationship between a lesbian and a gay man where a gay man would have in common with a male that they're both male and with a straight female that they like males. However, with A with a lesbian, they didn't quite have that connection. I believe [00:17:30] this to be false, because as long as you're nice to each other. It doesn't matter what you're into it. You can find common ground on anything. Um, So you wanna get married? What are your other hopes for your future? Definitely earning more money. Um, I'd like to live in a world that that's definitely very on. Doesn't really care that gays exist, mainly because [00:18:00] they would be equal on all grounds that it was almost as important as having a different colour here. It'd be lovely to live in a place like that, but alas, we don't Where do you think we might be in 10 years time? Um, your question, I reckon the, um judging by the way that things are going now, definitely a lot more acceptance, because over the last 20 years, at least, we've changed so dramatically much. It wasn't that long ago in America [00:18:30] that being homosexual was actually illegal. And this could be, you know, most fired on the spot, which, actually, still in America, you can still be fired on the spot for being gay, which is a bit shit. Really. What else do you know about kind of, um, rights or history of, um, growing trans people in New Zealand or international. I remember the great I remember a story about the great AIDS epidemic in America, specifically [00:19:00] all the people just dying in the streets. And, of course, riots and protests very almost parallel with the, um, black rights movement of Martin Luther King. It's very, very parallel with that. But almost a couple of decades later, what do you think are some of the most important issues that are facing growing in New Zealand at the moment? Education definitely towards, um, young [00:19:30] people. Um, for instance, in high school, I wasn't quite educated about much in the ways and going into it, not knowing that you can find yourself in a lot of sticky situations, Um, you could find yourself not using the proper protection. So in high school we were educated that to prevent pregnancy, you use protection now in a relationship where it's inconceivable to get pregnant. You're instantly a serum. Well, I don't need protection, which is completely false, and I would love to see that being educated more widely [00:20:00] than protection in that manner is definitely a thing. And also, um, social boundaries need to be sort of educated in high schools as well because they do teach boundaries between a male and female. But with a male and male or female and female, they are very different. What do you mean by that? Well, sexual activities do come into it like the, um, frequency [00:20:30] of them is definitely greater in a male on male relationship and most likely a female or male female and female relationship. I don't quite know that. Surprisingly, um, and the way that they act towards each other. For instance, me and my boyfriend tickle fight all the time and find it hilarious. Whereas our our straight friends look on in horror as they just see two of their friends wrestling to the death. Um, apart from your goat, where have you, um, got kind of messages about, [00:21:00] um, safe sex and boundaries and things like that? Um, definitely. In the youth groups, they they teach a lot about, um, boundaries and safe sex. And you see a lot of it in advertising around the place. For instance, the LYC love your condom for those in the future, um, advertise quite heavily in our city and often give out free condoms, et cetera, to the people then posters everywhere that you You've got to use them, you know, stay safe. [00:21:30] Unless you're absolutely 100% sure that they're clean, Use one. Um, if you could give a message to the, um, gay boy in high school who's struggling to come out hearing all the constant homophobia, kind of like you were, Um, what would you say? Have a look around. It's definitely all through with the people that you're around. If you look hard enough, you can find people within your own little community high school [00:22:00] where it is completely acceptable. I myself didn't find that in mind, mainly because I wasn't looking. But you can definitely find these little groups, and it's once you're there, it's completely safe to be. And you're protected by your friends. So you can then take that as a basis and come out to your family eventually. What do you think? Um, you would have needed back when you were at school to be able to feel safe about coming out, seeing as I wasn't [00:22:30] quite sure on these things as and even when I knew I was I didn't know. I was as, um you feel emotions and you don't quite know what they are until many years down the track. And I reckon if there was someone there to tell me what some of these feelings meant, or at least give me some idea, like a role model or an education, it would have definitely sped up the process. Um, do you, like, have any kind of regret that you weren't able [00:23:00] to be kind of out of who you were earlier? Or you just think you did what was, you know, right for you or, um, I definitely regret that I didn't come out earlier, mainly because I didn't have a stage where it was completely acceptable to be celibate and, you know, just there learning about yourself rather than having to run around all the time. Um, I definitely regret a lot of things from high school. Um, some of the art members [00:23:30] I witnessed being bullied, and I didn't stick up for them because I didn't really want to be outed in that manner. And it definitely perpetuated their the grating life. And I regret that immensely that I wasn't there to help them. So I try to stick around these days and help as much as I can, um, to finish off. What's your favourite thing about being a young gay person in the new in New Zealand? In the South? You can get away with it a lot [00:24:00] like like you could literally do whatever you want. And no one even questions it like I was hanging out with some friends and I was just like, I want to do drag, Let's go do drag. And they were just like, Oh, Hamish, we don't even we don't even care. Just just do it. No, no one even questions it. Whereas, um, if a straight guy was to do these things, you'd definitely have a lot of questions thrown it.
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