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How would you describe your identity? I would describe it in the way that people have given me kind of a name. So in high school, I was given the name like given the term lesbian. Unfortunately, I kind of have to identify with being a lesbian because it's the easiest way that people can understand. I mean, if I say I'm in a I'm in a relationship with a girl. I like women, but they'll be like, But you're a lesbian. So But [00:00:30] I hate the word because it was always used in kind of a geography fashion, especially within, like, the men who I was who kind of was in my life at that time. So, yeah, so if you could choose words for yourself, there wouldn't There wouldn't be any of that. You just talk about who you like to have relationships. Yeah, exactly. But unfortunately, you know, it makes it easier for everybody else, but it just kind of like inside. I'm just like I'm a lesbian, but it kind of hurts to say, [00:01:00] Do you think the language that we use to describe our sexual orientation has changed much over time? Oh, gosh, yes, it's gone from? I mean, some some lesbians may don't identify as saying, Oh, they're gay. But that would be typically used like a gay man. But then, now there's, you know, all the intersex and and, you know, a show and everything. It's amazing how much it's it's developed like the queer community, because at first it was just, you know, LGBT and maybe like the bisexual wasn't even in there [00:01:30] as much as it was in the past. So yeah, um, when did you become aware that you were attracted to probably in year, Year seven so fresh out of, like, primary school, which is unbelievable. So I just hit puberty and then thought that I thought it was normal to like women. I thought that everybody liked women, that it was like a normal thing and everyone and then everybody [00:02:00] said to me that it was weird, and so I tried to suppress it as much as I could and, um, that I thought that I would grow out of it because I got told that I could that I would grow out of it and that it was just a phase. But it came about year eight when I kind of, like, fell in love with this one girl who didn't like me back. But that's fine. Wasn't meant to be. But yeah, definitely quite a young age. And then it wasn't until, um, about year, year, 12 [00:02:30] year 13 when my parents and my family started realising that I was. And then in first year of university, when I was about 18, that's when I actually came out. So yeah, So how did like you said your family started realising what happened there? Oh, gosh, my my sister said to me, Don't I I don't Why can't you just be? She pretty much said, Why can't you just be like me for once? Why can't you copy me and just be, you know, like men [00:03:00] instead of liking women? And I just said, I can't I really can't help it Like I've tried. I tried to suppress it as much as I could, and I just couldn't anymore. I couldn't live in like a lie. It was just It was pretty awful. And at first when I told Mom and Dad, um, they they actually kind of asked me first, so I was actually on the phone in my hall of residence in tears and they said, Oh, there's this. Who's [00:03:30] this girl that is on your Facebook page? And you know, and then they said, like, Oh, like, what is the deal with it is like, What are you doing? Like this is, you know, dishonourable to our family and kind of that kind of stuff. And then, um, kind of felt like I couldn't really go home after that. Mom and Dad just went absolutely mental, didn't I felt kind of disowned as well. But I'm surprised that, [00:04:00] like, I'm really happy that, like my part, that my partner who is my partner now is like, keep me strong throughout that process. And I think that if I didn't really have her, then I wouldn't really have got through it. Yeah, it was pretty, pretty horrific. I couldn't really go home or anything, so yeah, unfortunately. So what was it like for you at high school? Um, you said you were kind of like figuring things out. Did you experience much homophobia? I got kind of told [00:04:30] to get over it that it wasn't that I shouldn't that the counsellor at at at the school was ridiculous. She was awful as far as I'm concerned and didn't really even help at all. It was It was quite amazing that I would go to counselling and then I mean, she wasn't even religious or anything like that. And she'd say, No, you're not. You know, you're just going through a phase and it was all about me going through a phase at the time, and I and I thought, Oh, yeah, like because people are naming [00:05:00] a phase, I'm going to get over it, but never really did because it's not face. But that's all right. Yeah, it was high school was pretty horrible, I because I was always the single one out and everybody used to bully me. So I used to get beaten up and and bullied. I didn't really have many friends at all, and, um, I just resorted to playing piano in like the grand like in the Grand Hall, then just every single day, even during class, [00:05:30] and got really good. So that's really a bonus. But I didn't really make any friends or anything, and still, it's quite interesting to see the people who have bullied me in the past, and they've kind of switched on to realising that they did. And then I see them and they're like, they almost hide in shame of of what they kind of did. But, you know, at the time they were all kind of, like, pressured by their friends and stuff like that. So even when I went to like the counsellor or went to the principal, I would never [00:06:00] get any support because I was always the odd one out, and they couldn't really be bothered in a sense, to punish all of those the big group of girls who were bullying me. So yeah, it was very interesting. And it was only until year 13 when I actually finally people started kind of accepting me a bit more and accepting the fact that I'm not going to get into everybody and that they should really not, like, flatter themselves too much because they thought that I liked everybody [00:06:30] and, you know, but yeah, by the year 13, I guess it was that maturity level and yeah, definitely growing up kind of thing. But it was still bad in first year of uni. So yeah, what was that like So definitely I was at a hall of residence, so I didn't really make that many friends at all. You've really kind of thought that I was gonna get into them and stuff, which was really ridiculous. And that's when I kind of, like, fell in love with my partner at the moment. Like and [00:07:00] she kind of gave me the support to start to, like, really stand up to these people. And I had one of the RAS who obviously wasn't trained and and, you know, and you know, with queer stuff and just completely, you know, Bible slamming me pretty much about about how it it was, you know, disgusting and how I would go to hell. And it was just awful. And I was I was really lucky that I had [00:07:30] at least two of the RAS really stand up for me. And, you know, it was only until then that I realised that I should really start standing up for myself and and stop like hiding. And so I started getting confidence. And then no, nobody kind of started to bully me face to face. They would either like Facebook, message me or just use any social media to kind of bully me or or it was always that, like, behind closed doors kind of stuff. So you'd see them more than a group, and they would be looking at you, but that, you know, that they're talking [00:08:00] about you. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. So, subconsciously, I was I was always aware that, like, people might have been, like bitching about me and having a go or or just saying how how weird I was or or whatever. It was just really weird. Yeah, stronger for it now. So, um, So while you were at high school, did you? So you didn't have support from the school? Did you manage to meet any other, like, [00:08:30] queer people or, um, were you able to have, like, relationships? Like at that time of your life before you were like I actually did? Surprisingly, in year 10 in year nine, I tried to set up a A group with a friend at the high school. Um was like, Queer Straight Alliance. But unfortunately, I didn't Really I didn't really get along with the people who were queer, and I felt like just [00:09:00] because I'm queer doesn't mean that I should always be friends with all the queer people doesn't mean that I like it. It it's always the assumption that you'll always be friends with all of these people because, you know, you've all got the same common interests and everything, and you're you're very similar, but unfortunately, I'm a bit more of a solo person, so it didn't. Unfortunately, it didn't work out very well. But they she still created the group and and the issue with that I had [00:09:30] with the group was that I couldn't really get support because it wasn't really confidential so that I knew that even because the the maturity level was pretty low, that people would show up straight, people would show up to the group and they would find out who is in the group, and then they would tell everybody else. So there wasn't. I wish that the school really monitored it more that it wasn't just a it wasn't just as organised by students. If I look back on it now, otherwise [00:10:00] it would have been so much better if if you know it was confidential and you know, the people that have do have a safe space. But the other thing is, is that if people aren't confident to go to the groups and they'll never go, they'll never go because it is quite a big step. It's just kind of like the uniq stuff or or other stuff that that is involved with the queer community now. So and some people, some in some respects, I've kind of felt like fresh meat as well. And that's kind of the same feeling that I get now with some of the stuff, um, [00:10:30] especially down like down here in Dunedin some. Sometimes I feel like I am kind of fresh meat, even though I do have a partner and it's it's Yeah, it's kind of the dark, dark corners of the queer community, unfortunately, but yeah, in high school, I tried to get support as best as I could, but I didn't really know where to look. There wasn't really anything that I liked, or there was always somebody there who who [00:11:00] used to kind of bully me. I mean, some people, even in the queer community, did bully me quite quite badly, and every time I'd go to these groups, they would be there, so I couldn't really even start making new friends or getting support. Yeah, and I guess we were all quite young. So all of us were going through the same things. And so I wish that there would have been kind of like an older lesbian lady there or older, you know, older, queer people there that I could actually talk to about these experiences who who kind of [00:11:30] knows their stuff. But unfortunately there wasn't anything. So are you involved much with the queer community now that you're at uni now? I was quite I was last year in the beginning of this year, but I've kind of tapered it back a bit. I mean, it was kind of taking over my life a little bit. And it's quite interesting seeing the dynamics of last year versus this year. I mean, because I've I've taken a step [00:12:00] back. I can kind of see how I kind of don't really have that many friends anymore, because the like the people who I thought that used to my concept of friendship is really weird. So I I only kind of be friends with people if if there is that, like quite a deep connection. I I'm just I'm quite a solo person. I'm quite introverted. So I I had, [00:12:30] like, people who I thought were my friends last year aren't really my friends this year and they won't really talk to me. And I find it really weird that, you know, after a three month break away from from uni, you come back and you know you've got no friends and it's it's quite odd. Yeah, it's really weird and I just don't get it. I maybe it's just because I, I don't really I don't really get along with these people, but, I mean, sometimes I just can't deal with it. [00:13:00] I can't deal with constantly being on the ball about, you know, things that are going wrong within the world because I like keeping myself quite positive. So last year I had a really shitty, flat flatting situation, and I actually got, like, verbally abused for just anything you know, like my, like my sex by women as well. What the heck and you know, sexist women and men in in this flat and and also, you know, racist [00:13:30] and also, you know, highly homophobic. So last year I kind of needed that support, and that's why I kind of filtered my way into, like, the queer support stuff, and I got quite a lot of support from the people there. But now that I've kind of sorted my my stuff out, I don't really need it as much anymore. So I try not to go to things because I know that there are [00:14:00] People are going through their own kind of stuff, and I don't want to kind of drown myself because I if I try, if I I I'm much of a carer. So if I find out that somebody's, you know, in pain or hurting, or if they if they're going through something and I could help them, then I'll try to help them best I could, and I'll put more effort into other people than I will with myself, and then I'll just I'll end up like losing myself as well. So, yeah, I'm trying not to as much. Plus, I'm like things are getting much better now, uh, with [00:14:30] family and stuff. So they've met my partner. My grandparents have met my partner and they love her. So which is great for us, So things are going well at home and with uni and kind of getting stuff sorted now. But it took a while. Yeah. Yeah. Um So how does your family react after the initial kind of comment from your sister that you talked about once he did come out to them? Yeah, it was quite interesting. It was very [00:15:00] interesting. I mean, if I didn't have my sister meeting my partner beforehand, then I think it wouldn't. It would have gone completely different. I guess the the thing is like, my sister kind of realised it earlier in in about year, year, 11, year 12. And so she kind of paved the way for me, which was really awesome. So because she already kind of knew and she kind of had time to get over it. By the time it came to coming out to mum and Dad, she had I had back up, [00:15:30] which is really good. I really played it Well, it went really good. So then she she she met my partner and and absolutely loved her because she's crazy and artistic and awesome. And she kind of started convincing mum and Dad that it was OK like it's not a big deal like her partner is amazing. So, yeah, I think I would have been absolutely stuffed if I didn't have her, To be honest. Yeah, but do you [00:16:00] think it's harder to be a trans person in the South Island? Oh, definitely, Definitely I Because my flat. So my flatting situation last year was it was horrific. And all of them were from Invercargill. I'm I'm not gonna make a I'm gonna make really bad assumptions now about Invercargill or down South. But I just all the people that I've kind of had bad relationships [00:16:30] with and throughout university have all been kind of from Southland. I mean, I, I maybe that's just, you know, them down there. You know, the farming kind of culture, you know, high masculinity, you know, kind of kind of vibe. And yeah, I did. The guy in my flat was really awful. I mean, he even said to me that, you know, if I see a gay person on the street, I will bash them [00:17:00] up because they look gay, and they shouldn't dress gay, and therefore I won't bash them up, saying it's kind of like, Oh, if a if a girl wears a short skirt, then she deserves to get raped kind of kind of thing. And I hate that I really hate it. And it just drove me mad because knowing that this this guy had such strong views on, you know, a woman's place is in the kitchen. You know, queer people were worth, [00:17:30] like, didn't deserve to be in the in the closet kind of thing because it was gonna I just pretty much sit back and be like, Oh, we you know, maybe it's a front to your masculinity, so yeah, it it was it was quite interesting. And all the girls as well were a bit backwards as well, unfortunately, But in Nelson, people are I find that they're much more accepting now. But, I mean, my partner's from Wellington. So when I go to Wellington, nobody [00:18:00] gives a shit. You know, nobody actually cares or or or in Auckland, nobody really cares at all, because when you walk down Cuba street holding hands with your girlfriend, you don't get those side glances that you do. If you walk down the street in Dunedin because I will get cat called and I will get the lesbian comments, and I will, you know, out of a car out of a car door. But the other thing is is that I guess the alcohol gives people confidence as well. So, like, if I'm walking down, um, down the main [00:18:30] street in Dunedin and I look like a lesbian, then they will say something like, Oh, like, where's your girlfriend? Or or, you know, like, rug muncher or something like that? So it's that constant look at you could keep you go put quite a lot of energy into looking out for kind of stuff. So, yeah, so, yeah. No, it really does. So, um, what do you think about the way queer and Trans people are portrayed in the media? [00:19:00] And if we think of media as, like, all sorts news, TV movies, But this is gonna be very stereotypical. So, you know, apparently in the media, there are there are butch lesbians. There are fem lesbians and it is Allen DeGeneres. And so it it's quite it's really interesting to see how the media portrays how gay men are quite [00:19:30] you know, the high voice. Very, you know, they know their fashion. They are, you know, fashion designers, and they're all a bit them so and they can't be there. There's not apparently, in the media. There's no such thing as a kind of, you know, a big, big, strong burly, you know, gay gay man. And I think it's even worse for the Trans people. It must be awful just hearing some of the stories [00:20:00] from what I've heard about, you know, the about when they walk down the street like, Is that a man or a woman? Or I just can't believe it. And they do that and even in in media as well. And it's amazing just how they portray the trans people, that all the trans, um, you know, male to female are drag queens. Or, you know, it's all Priscilla Queen of the desert kind [00:20:30] of stuff. But yeah, I. I think it's awful the way that they portray everybody as being. They definitely portray us as a minority, but I think we're bigger than that. You know, there's more gay people out there like there's more people out there than you think, but unfortunately in the media, it drives people to believe that if they don't look a certain way if this gay guy isn't isn't really good at fashion advice or, [00:21:00] you know, helping with your love life or whatever. Um, then people, people really assume those things about about the queer community, and it kind of makes it hard when you are trying to come out or if you're quite feminine, like a feminine lesbian, then they'll say, Oh, you're too pretty to be a lesbian And it it just drives those stereotypes completely. You know, people can look at the way that they are. Their sexuality is not worn [00:21:30] on their clothing or their hair or their face or whatever. They're just people. So yeah, it's a lot of a lot of stereotyping a lot. But do you see, um, your identity reflected at all? Or has there been any like characters or storylines that you can relate to? Oh, definitely, definitely. So I. I go off shopping quite a bit. So my mom refused to let me back in the car if I bought a shirt because she said [00:22:00] that if I wear that shirt around her, then everybody will know that my daughter is a lesbian. I was like, I'm just wearing a shirt for God, it's a shirt. It doesn't mean anything. But at first my parents thought that now Oh, that explains the short here. Uh, that explains the no makeup, you know, that explains the the, you know, the shirts and the chucks and the whatever you know. And I was just like it doesn't it really Doesn't [00:22:30] you know, I've had short hair for, like, seven years? It's fine. Like, I don't suit long hair, you know, it's just the way it is, you know, you find, you know, older people have, you know, short hair or whatever, but, Oh, gosh, it just drives me up the wall. Other things would definitely be like, 00, if only she grew out her hair, then she'd look straight or, you know, that kind of thing. And and I guess I kind of think that I look like a lesbian, like those stereotypes with the [00:23:00] short hair, short hair, you know, kind of shortish kind of kind of stereotypes. But And I can tell I can tell that people know that I'm a lesbian because they say, you know, they call me, they they Oh, you know, kind of thing down the street so I must look like one. But that's only that's only put in place because of the media about. You know, that's how lesbians are meant to look. But we can look however we want. And when [00:23:30] I wear a dress, um, when I wear dresses, people can't believe it. They're like, Oh, gosh, you look actually normal or or my sister said to me, um, at her at her 21st she said, I don't want you wearing a shirt. I want you to wear a dress And I was like, I don't like wearing dresses because it's really uncomfortable. You know? Maybe I don't like, you know, accidentally flashing my knickers at somebody Or, you know, maybe it's a little bit too breezy down there for my liking. You know, it's like for me, clothing [00:24:00] is a comfort thing. But for other people, they think that it's that it's just me looking like a dyke. You know, it's painful. And what do you think about the marriage Equality bill passing? So it kind of gives me hope now that I can that it can be more normalised in society, that it is OK to have you know you know two wives and, like two husbands together, you know kind of thing. [00:24:30] Um, I love it. I remember the day it came out. I was so proud. I mean, I feel like I like I. I haven't really because I wasn't in the seventies or eighties doing like the work towards it. And now, knowing that, like our past, is as family it's amazing seeing the look like when you look at the people's faces who have been from their generation now that they can get, you know, married to their partner [00:25:00] of, you know, like what, 20 like five years or something like that. You know all those awesome love stories. It's just, uh it's just really heartwarming it it's hopefully it will change society's viewpoints on on marriage. I really hope. I mean, it's gonna still take time, but yeah, again, it especially I find it especially important because of the adoption laws as well. So that, um because previously you know, the [00:25:30] if one partner leaves and the child is to the other person's name, but the other person has no legal right with him. Then that's not very fair. If they split up and then you know, one person will take the kid, and then they can't really fight against them because they have no legal rights. So legally, they're not, you know, their their mother. So, yeah, I find it really important for the adoption stuff, which is fantastic. So, yeah. Um, are you interested in marriage and adopting or [00:26:00] kids? Are you be what? What are your hopes for your future after you finish uni? Um, I definitely hope to get a good job, As as one would a good job, actually, utilising my degree would be would be quite essential. Um, I, uh um geography. So yeah. Environmental management. So trying to get into the mining industry, So Yeah. Great. Not good for the partner. She doesn't want to go to Australia, unfortunately, [00:26:30] but that's fine. Talk about that for her. I really hope that I stay with the the partner that I that I have at the moment. She's amazing. She's so smart, you know, she don't like I thought fine arts degrees were at first were, you know, kind of lowkey pointless. I mean, that was just my perception for my family. Like, why would you get into the art industry. You know, you've got a You gotta kind of work part of it. Yeah, she's doing really well. And I really hope that one day I can put a ring on [00:27:00] it, you know, even though she I said to her, If if she doesn't put a ring on my finger in the next five years, then she's cut. So but, yeah, it's because we do long distance. I've really got a strong connection with her and she knows my past and everything, and it's great. I really, really hope that I can get married to her. And the other thing I've been hoping for was I really would like to have kids for my for myself. [00:27:30] But key point I I really don't feel very comfortable using, um, the usual ways of, like using a Don a donation for of sperm. I really don't. I'm not very. I'm very uneasy about that because of what happened in my past, um, to kind of do with that. So I I I hope that the new technology would enable, you know, taking an egg from myself and an egg from my partner and then creating a little female little [00:28:00] baby that can be put inside me. You know, I, I like that to give us. I would hate to not have any of her qualities and in in my in, you know, the child. Because she is amazing. And I don't think I could find a guy that's that's even close to what she's like, you know? But yeah, I hope fingers crossed. Hopefully I'm in the right time that that can be possible without spending too much money. So it's a money thing. So, [00:28:30] yeah, um, if you could give a message to other young people who are going through similar things, you went through being really badly bullied. What would it be? It gets better. It does it. It really does get better. I think it's a It is a maturity thing you got to understand is, you know, you know these people, you know, like I said earlier, how these people will look at you when you get back to uni and you see them and they will look at you like [00:29:00] they are in the dirt because of what they've realised that they did to you. I mean, I, I was so highly suicidal. I I'm surprised I'm still here today because if I didn't, I just It's so important now, like, life is so important and I can't imagine even taking it for a second. But, you know, back then I, I thought that was the first thing that that I should do just But no, [00:29:30] I think it's I think you just got to be strong. You gotta really? I mean, even if you're not quite extroverted or or whatever, just be confident internally and just be strong And, like, try to find those support networks and those other people that you can connect with, because that was pretty important as well in second year. I mean, I was pretty pretty on the rail. So, like if I didn't have queer support, I'd probably I don't know where I'd be today. I'd probably be not even back at university. So you know, that's a whole opportunity, [00:30:00] miss, But yeah, you gotta keep strong. Yeah, definitely. Um, maybe to finish up. What's your favourite thing about being a queer person in the South Island? Oh, goodness. So awesome. It's so it's It's really cool. Like I. I like finally, because I've kind of sorted my stuff out now. It's really like it's quite important to me because, you know, my partner is so key in my life and [00:30:30] in my family, and I think that that I can't I can't imagine not even introducing her to my parents because that's such a big secret. That's that's the other advice I would give is Don't hold secrets against your parents because they they'll find out they know when stuff is happening. They know, and they will. Oh, that's right. That's what they'll say to you like, Oh, that that makes so much more sense. So yeah, definitely no secrets. But yeah, I love I love being a queer [00:31:00] person. I mean, sometimes I don't like aspects of the community, but I'm sure that other people feel that way as well. I mean, not everybody is perfect, and you're not always gonna find the right group of people. I mean, it doesn't always have to be the queer people that you be friends with. I mean, you can still have normal, like, you know, the the the normal kind of hetro friendships going on. But yeah, I think it's quite important to, like, share our diversity. Yeah, [00:31:30] I mean, for some people, it might be quite hard to share the diversity because they're probably not OK with the big flags and the parades and everything like that. But I've kind of going to, like, love that now. So, yeah, I'm quite proud because it is quite key to me that I've kind of gone through all this stuff, So, yeah, I think it will be key to other people as well. I think people can reflect on the same things. Awesome. Thank you so much. All right. Um, is there anything else you wanted to say? [00:32:00] Oh, definitely. I'm just gonna say trigger warning now for, um, just stuff to do with the rape, just to just make sure that people are in, like, a safe situation or when they do hear this recording. Um, because this this might trigger some stuff. So, um, I was pretty much in year 13. I went through quite a lot of stuff, and it's only until I got through second year that I realised, Really, What had happened to me? Uh, So what I what I kind of figured out in [00:32:30] myself was that I was suppressing some some memories about what had happened to me in my past. So in year 13 I I was I got Really, um I was pretty much I was drinking at the time, and I got coerced into drinking more and more, and and I heard a guy say in the in the back before, while I was getting quite quite drunk, um, that Oh, I'm going to have sex with a lesbian tonight. You know, I'm [00:33:00] gonna do this. And it was really disgusting. Now that I look back on that and I and I know the reason why he did it and so it would, And the girl who I was the partner that I was with at the time she was I thought that she was meant to be looking out for me, but she didn't really look out for me at all. I mean, she pretty much allowed it to happen. And so, you know, I did get raped by this guy, and I didn't want it. I've never had sex with a guy before [00:33:30] because I wasn't. I wasn't straight I. I didn't want it at all. And it pains me now just to think about it. The fact that he did it because he wanted to quote, Take my virginity because I was a lesbian and, you know, that's just bullshit. I find that so awful and that I thought that at the time, like afterwards, I just blamed myself for it because if I wasn't a lesbian, [00:34:00] and this is how I got kind of taught that I should take responsibility for my own actions, that if I was a lesbian, then it's kind of OK, you know, and that's awful to think. And now I look back on it. I'm like, Gosh, like that's that's horrific and I, I just I just hope that that anybody anybody out there who who does, who has gotten, you know, sexually assaulted by a guy who is a lesbian and and that's the same [00:34:30] thing that's kind of happened to them, that they just stay strong because, I mean, I'm I'm much better for it now. Like I. I can't believe I went through that. I went through. I got some. I got lots of counselling. I'm still getting counselling today at Ra Crisis, and they're really supportive. Great, queer, friendly. They're amazing, but I still can't help but blame myself if I like that. If I wasn't [00:35:00] like that, I sometimes I think, like, if I wasn't a lesbian, then maybe this shit wouldn't happen. And I just I hate that, you know, because it's just awful. So, yeah, that's all I kinda wanna Yeah, don't. But yeah, I think that talking about it is really important and and like, makes me stronger, you know? So, yeah.
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