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Um, So I'm Katie, and I use pronouns. Um, and so we're doing a panel on coming out, Uh, labels negotiating identity and solidarity. Um, it is what it says on the tin as it says on the thing. Um and so first, I just want to get a lovely panellists introduce themselves. I manage their pro. And any identifiers that Kilda, that's me. Um, I'm Brit, and I identify [00:00:30] as that is what I guess is my label. Um, and I use the E pronouns and there's lots of intersections within my identity, which we'll probably get into later. Hi. I'm Jared. Um, I use any pronouns. I'm quite open to any of them. And I identify as gay. Yeah, I am slow. I use [00:01:00] data pronouns and I identify as non-binary um, a new I use pronouns I identify as non-binary and gay. Hey, everyone, I'm Zoe. Um, I usually then pronounce, um I'm not a big fan of labels, but I don't mind the word queer because it's quite broad. I'm Jay. Um, I use and I I did. Yeah. Cool. Um, sorry. I got to say for a second there, Um, so my next question for you all is. [00:01:30] What was it like coming out to yourself? Like, what was that journey like? How did you come to realise you're part of this rainbow? Mm question. Right. Which time? Each each time. Yeah. I first came out as, um by when I was about 13. Um, there was a new girl in class, [00:02:00] and we clicked off really, really well. And, um, she said to me about three hours into this radical new friendship Oh, I just wanna, you know, let you know that, um, I'm by like, I hope that doesn't make anything weird. And I was like, What? What even is that? Like, there's something other than just hit like That's wild. And so then about a month after processing that, and I sort of discussed it with her a bit more and looked into it for myself and that sort of thing, and I was like, That's that's That's cool. [00:02:30] And then, about three years after that, I came out as Pan, um, and just sort of decided by actually didn't really fit me. Um, and that for me, it wasn't so much the, um It just didn't feel like the label that I could identify with, Um, and the more I was sort of looking into different identities, I sort of realised that actually, there's a lot more than just, you know, the classic L, GB and T. [00:03:00] There's more than four, you know, that sort of thing. Um and so I sort of took the identity of Pan as, like, the best option that I had at the time. Um, and I was attracted to people's personalities rather than them as a physical being and, you know, that sort of thing. So I really identified with it, Um, but didn't Yeah, I didn't feel like I fit in that box. Still, but it was [00:03:30] the best I had. And then, um, similar to what Jay was saying earlier, um, around, um, meeting the beautiful Elizabeth, Um, at my first ever, um, and I just lost my crack a little bit because I was like, Whoa, that's That's definitely me. Um, and being Maori has been a journey of identity of its own, um, with a lot of different, um, intergenerational trauma and that [00:04:00] sort of thing. So being able to accept that, as for me to be able to openly say? Actually, that's my identity. And that's super valid Has been a long journey. Um, so, yeah, I think that's me. So for me, um, mine kind of was like, I was kind of, like at the stage of just being, like, sexually confused, like I didn't really know what it was because, um, in primary, I would always get, like, [00:04:30] teased and bullied because I was quite feminine rather than, like, masculine. So I'd always have, like, the higher voice. Um, it was quite pitchy. And everybody kind of just, like was assuming my sexuality when I wasn't even sure of it myself. Um, which kind of made it hard? Because that happened all the way to high school. So I would always get, like, mocked and teased for that. But I never knew until I don't know. I just But I've like Loki secretly liked guys, but I just didn't tell anybody. [00:05:00] Um, and then and then I came to high school. This was only two years ago that I kind of actually, um, accepted the fact that, um, I was kind of different, um, that I was actually gay, like I never accepted it myself until, um I? Because I always, um, volunteered to do things, um, within, like, the sexuality and mental health, Like, um, kind of groups and stuff. So I was always helping out, and that kind of helped me to come out and know more information and just kind of made [00:05:30] the process easier. Um, so that's me coming out. Um, but it was kind of just always a difficult thing because I didn't know how people would react around me. Um, so that kind of made it difficult. But since, like, I've been out, if anybody asks me, I'm literally just straight up, like I have no care anymore because, like, that process was really hard enough, just allowing yourself to just keep that kind of, like, label for yourself kind of helps you more, and it just makes [00:06:00] everything seem easier. So you just like, I don't I'm not ashamed of, like, my sexuality. I just keep I'm just always like, yeah, I'm gay. I'm gay. When I went to Queenstown, I literally told the teacher Yeah, I'm super gay, and that kind of made everything easier. And then everybody knew I was gay, so life was easier. Um, I was like 11 and just started high school because it's really different in the UK. And I remember writing [00:06:30] on the bathroom walls. Uh, I think I might be a lesbian. What do I do? And I had, like, two responses within a week. The first one was like, When you learn how to spell it, right, you'll know you. And then the other one was like, Look, just chill. You'll figure it out. And I'm like, OK, cool. Well, that's obviously a problem for later, Sloan. So I procrastinated it for about 23 years. I was, like, 13. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I think I like girls. So I, like, came [00:07:00] out of the buy first and then fluctuated through that, moved to New Zealand and was like, Oh, nope, just really, really gay. And then, quite recently, I started questioning my gender, and I'm like, What? What is What is gender? Um, yay, um, discovered like non-binary stuff thanks to YouTube and was like, Yeah, that fits. But like also, I'm a boy. Um but they then pronounced and um, [00:07:30] yeah, I think that's about it. My folks were really cool about it, like coming from Scotland. Everything's really, really different to New Zealand. Like the way you're brought up. Everyone's more conservative and very stuck in their ways. And I feel like my parents have gone quite far with that. Yeah, um, I had a quite stereotypical journey. Um, I found out about been gay stuff. [00:08:00] I learned it was a thing on the internet. And, um, for a while I was, like, really invested. And I was like, a a really good ally to the LGBT community, and I was always, like, super into it. And then I realised, Hey, I'm gay. And I actually started with, um, identifying as Pan because I thought I was attracted to guys as well. And, um, just like a few years ago, I realised no, not attracted to guys. And then somewhere in there, I found [00:08:30] out about non-binary, um, identities. And I started, You know, I thought I was gender fluid at first and then a gender and then just settled finally on non-binary. And, um, I came out to my mother in a really tearful like I was, like, full on, like, sobbing as I came out, because in my mind, it was something sort of shameful. Um, obviously, I know now it's not. But at the time, it was quite, um, [00:09:00] a thing. And then I came out to my entire year in a speech because we had to do speeches and we could do it on anything. So I did it on non binary identities and like, um, how that how, like, there's, like, about transphobia and stuff. So I came out to my entire year with, like, a different name and pronouns, and I sort of regret it. But then, at the same time, I know I educated a whole lot of people, and they were really cool about it to my face at least. And, um, I've come [00:09:30] out to lots of my family. But then my mother was also like, Don't come out to your grandparents because it's, like, hard for them. But then I came out anyway, because screw her in, like, the best way. Like that's I'm Yeah, um, but thanks to the intimate for educating me, um, I never really came out as people tend to think of coming out. Uh, I just began to live more [00:10:00] and more as my authentic self. The more I uncovered who that was, um, in. In an ideal world, no one would assume anyone's gender or sex or sexuality. So I don't think it's my responsibility to come out to anyone. Um, but that's probably influenced by the fact that I don't associate with myself with a gender or sexuality, So it's not like I'm going to come out as anything or it's not like I'm going to talk about where I fit within a system of labels and constructs [00:10:30] that I'd actually just like to opt out of altogether. Uh, they have been many situations where people have assumed things about my identity, and I've then said or done things that have contradicted what they've assumed. And lots of people can think of that as as coming out, and that's totally valid. But that's not really how I think of it. I think of it as them being unaware or them being indirectly called out. Um, so it's it's on them, it's not on me. So [00:11:00] yeah, coming out hasn't really been an experience that I feel like I've had or needed. I've just lived more as my authentic self cool. Um, I first realised my attraction to one when I was, like 11. Um, and then in health class, someone some random student who had done research said, Don't worry, everyone has a gay face. You'll just forget about it. And I was like, Do better forget about this for four years. Um, and then sort of, like, came out as [00:11:30] by when I was 15, and I was really like, Who? Yeah, everyone. I'll tell the whole world. Um, but I feel like even back then that was sort of a cover for my own insecurity about it. Like I'm realising this five years down the track, I actually was still tackling a lot of my own internalised stuff. Um, and I sort of acted in a very, very stereotypical way because I thought like, well, I didn't fit into that group, the straight group. So this is how I have to act to fit into the the by group, Um, [00:12:00] and sort of figured out that I wasn't cisgender when I was about 17. Um, I went through, like, a whole lot of different labels, Um, like bi gender, then a gender, then a gender trans masculine. Um And then I learned about Tau and realised Hey, this is so much easier than giving myself a million micro labels, and it's actually much more comfortable. Um, so, yeah. Like, as I mentioned previously, my relationship to my gender is very complicated. Um, because [00:12:30] of the constructs of colonialism and how I fit into all that, um, with being Maori and also being just very mixed race in general. Like, um, I'm also like, anti European and have, like, Ukrainian and Japanese ancestry. Um, so there's, like, a whole lot of intersectionality that plays into my identity as well as, like, my my gender sexuality, my sex and, um, my cultures and my ethnicity. [00:13:00] Um, yeah. So it's been a bit of a wild ride having to navigate all of those separate things. Um, but it teaches you a lot about, um, just being empathetic for other people because everyone has really different experiences. Um, and yeah, my family have been pretty chill. Pretty chill about it. It's been a bit of a journey with them, too, but, um, like it is with any any family. Really? Um, yeah, that's me. Yeah, I was just [00:13:30] gonna do that. Everyone. I'm a She had pronouns. Um, I was a little bit late this morning. My apologies, Um, and I identify as trans feminine and also as a trans woman and also as queer. Um, so I've definitely had a long journey with coming out as well come out many times. Um, and it's sort of hard to say, Like, I've always known that I was queer because it was very obvious from you know, when you first start [00:14:00] to speak and first start to be a person in the world. Um, but I came out. I guess the first time I came out was when I was about 14 or 15, and I came out as bi very tentatively, sort of like 1 ft out of the closet door and then went back in straight away after a lot of people clapped back. Um uh, yeah, and that was difficult. And then I was just sort of unspoken queer during [00:14:30] high school. Um, I didn't really specifically talk to people about it, but I just was sleeping with who I was sleeping with and having relationships with people. But I did sort of keep it to myself as well. I was quite guarded and private. Um, and it wasn't really until I moved away from high school and moved to Wellington that I started to figure out that I was probably Trans and then I didn't transition until my early twenties. [00:15:00] And then I first came out as non-binary, and I didn't know if I so that was like my social transition. And I didn't know if I wanted to, you know, take medical steps or whatever, and then I decided that I did. And then I came out again as a trans woman, mainly because it was so difficult for all of my friends and family to understand what non binary was. And so I also have, like quite a complicated relationship to labels where I'm quite fine [00:15:30] to be called, you know, a trans woman and have that because it's easier for people to understand. But equally I don't actually identify most of the time on the binary. And, um, yeah, and my sexuality is queer. So yeah, that's been my journey. Just give you a chance. Um, and then the next question and some of you have already mentioned it, which is really cool, [00:16:00] um, as a part of your coming out story, because obviously coming out can be. If it's something you're doing a daily thing, or whenever you start a new job or meet new people, you may or may not choose to come out. So if you want to hear a story of that, whether it be to family or friends or that first time you say the words out loud, Hm? Hi. You're on the spot now. Mm. Ok, um, So, [00:16:30] um, again, I think because there's been so many times, um, with different identities and different crowds and different spaces. Um, I think when I was younger, I sort of hadn't been through, um, a journey with myself. If that makes sense, like I get, life is with yourself. And, you know, um but that, like, I hadn't fully actually understood where I was, [00:17:00] Um, and who I was and all that sort of thing. Um, what makes me me, um and so, Yeah, I think I sort of got into this space of almost, like, analysing spaces before I went into them. Um, and the second I walked through the door, I was analysing, actually, Am I safe to be who I think I am at the moment or um, you know, whatever identity that I was identifying with at the time, actually, is it safe to share [00:17:30] that here? And, um, am I gonna be accepted? And actually, am I in the, you know, the right head space to be able to deal with any questions or with any, um, rude things to come from it or anything like that? Um, and so I think it sort of became part of my norm. And it actually took quite a lot of learning to get out of, um, and thanks. And yeah. So I think in that sense, it was always quite interesting. [00:18:00] But, um, I came out to my whole social studies class when I first came out because I knew that I wasn't the only one in the class, and so I sort of assessed it, and I sort of went, you know, actually, I've already know that I've got at least one support person in this space, so I know I'm going to be safe. Um, and I Yeah, it was quite a mixed field. Some people were like, Oh, cool, whatever. Like what's new? And then other people, I think, [00:18:30] were definitely more. What's that You're weird. You're different, you know, that sort of thing. Um, but again, I think I was lucky enough to be able to focus on the support systems that I did have at that time. Um, and to be able to really try and strengthen those because that's what I needed at that time. Um, so, yeah, so for me, like coming out story was kind of like I don't know. So I went to a camp first, and, um, it [00:19:00] was like we were celebrating, and then we'd all share story each and then one person like I wasn't out yet. And one person shared their story and I felt so, like, broken inside that I, like, ran out of the room and I don't know. I just, like, was so ashamed of who I was because I wasn't out. And they just outed themselves to everyone. And then it wasn't until I got back at school the following Monday, and, um, at school, I didn't talk to anyone. I shut [00:19:30] everybody out. They asked me how I am, and I was just like, hm, like I would not talk to anyone. And it was until I got home that day that I kind of was like, I don't know, I was trying to, like, put into words how my day was, but couldn't actually get get into words. And then I knew for a fact that was kind of my time to actually come out like it was perfect for me. So, um, I did mine on social media. I did it on INSTAGRAM. I like my personal, [00:20:00] So nobody else saw it. So I was only coming out to my group of friends. Um, so I did that and it was like, three posts long. So, like it was like a story rather than, like, I'm gay. It was just a story. And then, um Then everybody was commenting. I got a few phone calls and everybody was just, like, happy, like I'd expect, like so much hate from people. But it was just for me to come to terms with myself. And then it was when I went to school the next day that it wasn't [00:20:30] just my group of friends that knew I was gay, like everybody at school knew I was gay because they shared it amongst everyone. And it was kind of like I was kind of like the only out person at my school which kind of was really cool at the same time, but quite difficult. And it was just quite amazing that you find so much support for everybody and like, they'd ask you all these questions like, Oh, cool. So like, um, how did you know you were gay or you get those people that were like, I? I already knew you were gay and you're like, [00:21:00] hm can't assume. But, um, yeah, it was quite it was just a cool process, um, of how I got there and I just felt like, quite amazing. And then I just tell people that story and I came up to my friends before my actual family. So because I wanted that support because I see them every day, even though I see my parents every day. But they were the ones that I wanted to surround myself with more. Yeah, um, I came out to my mum in a really emotional way. I, [00:21:30] like tried coming out to her a bunch of times before, and she was just kind of like having none of it. It was great. Um, but I had, like, a day off school, and I was She was talking to someone and I had a full breakdown in the living room and just started crying. And she's like, shit, what? And like, ran over and like, hugged me, and she's like, What's going on? And I told her, like loads of traumatic stuff and I was like, I don't feel anything for guys. I'm really gay. And she's like, Oh, OK, and like, hugged me and she's like, You know, No, no, nothing's your fault. You know? Everything's great. [00:22:00] It's gonna be great. And like, I already came out to all of my friends before, Like Jared said, I wanted that support. So I knew that if anything went bad at home, I had someone to go to. Um, but yeah, she took it all right. After, like, three attempts of trying to come out to her as different things. Um, yeah, that was pretty much it, um I came out to my friends over text and literally everyone I came out to came out to me in return. [00:22:30] Like there was not one person that didn't come out. It was incredible. That's a whole another level of finding them before you're out together. Uh, I don't really think I have any specific experiences to share, but my general experience has been that, um I guess growing up, I had hetero noms and gender roles very much imposed on me. And I didn't have [00:23:00] any understanding of gender or sexuality diversity or anything like that. Um, so then when I started university and I got some autonomy from my family and I started meeting cool people in the rainbow community and educating myself, I realised that I had a lot of stuff to work out for myself and like my own happiness and well-being. And since then, I feel like I've been on a constant journey of unlearning all of this stuff that I believed about myself and about my role in the world [00:23:30] in order to uncover who I am underneath all of that and separate to all of that. And that's something that I'm still working on. Um, I also came out to my friends first after, like me gushing about a friend online who was a girl and was close friends with another girl. And my dumb 14 year old asked was like, Ah, she said [00:24:00] that she wants to kiss me. Why does that make me feel like you know, Um but then she also said that she wants to kiss this other girl. Maybe I'm just jealous of how close their friendship is. That's difficult. Um, and so they, like, took it fine. They were like, we literally suggested maybe this was the case when you said that you're jealous, but Yeah, cool. Um, but the sort of like the my like most, I guess, um, [00:24:30] important memory of, like, coming out, which which was, like, the first time I came out to my mom, um was when I, like, came out as buy when I was 15, we were in the car on the way home from the place we both worked at, Um, and I've come out to both my parents separately for both my gender and my sexuality. And every time it was in a car driving somewhere, um, relatable. Um, So I remember I was just like you have to say it, Mum, like, I'm bye. And she was [00:25:00] like, I don't think so. And then we just talk about it for a wee while. Um, And that wasn't necessarily a thing of like like she just didn't like have that as much when she was younger, Um, and so that was a bit of a process. Being like, um, yes, I'm actually, by now I'm not a lesbian because none of my relationships have worked out with men. Shade. Um, like I do like men like it's fine. Um, and I think like with all of the times that I've come out to my family, it's been [00:25:30] like a bit of a weird, like learning experience for both of us, like me and learning to be patient, um, and like understanding that they're not being like, not saying like, kind of ignorant things out of, like, spite. It's just because they genuinely don't know. Um and, yeah, I guess, just like it's been like a long educating, like road of like self discovery for, like both me and my family. And yeah, it's been a cool process. Um, [00:26:00] I also came up to my mum in the car, in a moving vehicle, driving back from Christmas, because in my head I was sort of like if it goes badly, I was coming up to her as trance and I was like, If it goes badly, then I can just get out and get a bus somewhere else, and it didn't go badly at all. That was kind of a, um an over over anticipation of bad reaction on my part. But, um, yeah, it was sort of just a simple conversation where we were [00:26:30] kind of like silent for a bit, and she kind of knew that I wanted to say something but didn't know what it was gonna be. And then I was just like I'm and then she was like, Oh, yeah, I thought so. And then we drove all the way home. Um, you have time for cool. Um, so what we'll do is any questions we'll do during quiet time [00:27:00] because I think the most important part is a piece of advice you'd give the young people here who are still need to start that coming out process again. This was on the email. No, I know. I'm processing and thinking. OK, so, um, I guess thinking about the last question in mind, I think there's been more times that I've actually come out as Maori. Um and that took a lot because um, [00:27:30] the yeah, there's a whole lot of journey behind that. And so for me, um, I was white. I wasn't raised, um, on a I wasn't raised knowing my I wasn't I didn't even know I was Maori until I was about 14. And, um, a lot of different things just around, you know, that whole culture side of, um, me that actually for a long time. Um, it's still very new for me to proudly be able to say [00:28:00] I'm, um And it's been less than a year. Um, but And again, that's because my journey, um, around that was because I I was invalidating myself. Um, and that actually just be you because you can come out as many times as you want, as we've just discussed. Um, but that actually, you are super valid as you, um [00:28:30] And so I think just embrace that. Yeah, my piece of advice is probably Yeah. Just don't be ashamed of who you are, Um, and, like, it may take people time to, like, accept who you are, but never be ashamed of who you are. Just keep doing you. And if they don't like you, then then you don't need to like them back. So just just keep [00:29:00] living. You'll do amazing things. So, yeah, I think my bit of advice would be You don't have to feel the need to come out if you're not safe. Like, make sure you're safe before you come out like you have something to fall back on. You have somewhere to go because like you don't wanna feel like you have nothing or noone because that sucks. This [00:29:30] is about like, after coming out, you don't have to be the source of information for everyone. Um, because like since I came out, everyone's everyone's come to me, especially because I came out to my everyone came up to me and was like, What's this? What's that? What's what is gay, what is by what is Trans? And you can just be like, Hey, google it, you don't have to be there to educate them like it's not your job just because you're LGBT. My advice would be that you, do. You [00:30:00] and that whatever you choose to do or not to do should be for yourself. Um, also to remember that it's OK not to have all the answers. It's OK to change your identity or to try different labels or names or experiences to see what works for you and what doesn't, especially in a society that's so obsessed with putting people into boxes. It's, um, all part of connecting with who you are and who you want to be. Um, I'd also say connecting with other people [00:30:30] and, uh, people who understand or people provide who provide you with a safe space to be who you are, because it can be a very, uh, lonely and hard journey if you do it in isolation. Um, my advice is just, I guess, um, take your time And, um, that relates to what, um, Zoe was saying with, like this, you have honestly, so much time to try different things and explore yourself. Um, [00:31:00] and that's like a lot of trial and error and a lot of, um, like self reflection and introspection. And it's not always like an easy thing to do, Um, or like it's not always like an easy feeling to pin down, and it can take a while. Um, and there's like no queer rule book that says you have to pick one and then say this for the rest of your life. Um so, like, don't freak out if things change. Or if you find that you're a different person further down the line, because people change and it's [00:31:30] a normal part of life. I don't know what else I can add. Really, I think you guys said everything, but yeah, I'll just reiterate, I guess, like, yeah, if you don't just always be aware of yourself and how you're feeling with the kind of process of coming out and keep yourself safe and yeah, if you are unsure, that's totally fine. And there can be a lot of cognitive dissonance for people when you're kind of like not sure what's going on or but just if [00:32:00] you can just try and sit with it. Um, yeah, you don't have to make up your mind straight away or ever if you don't want to clear yeah, to violence. OK, um, so Jared's just said, What about her? Her aunt out? Do I have advice? And I hadn't thought that far ahead. Um, my advice would be that you don't have that. It's already been said. You don't have to [00:32:30] rush it. You don't have to be like OK, well, now I know that I'm bi or I'm not. I'm a gender or whatever you have to tell people. That's you know, sometimes you're like, Oh, I found that. It's an exciting thing. I feel like I should tell the world you don't have to. Sometimes it's nice just to sit and know that you know who you are. And that's the most important thing. Yeah, it was asked to move around as clips or whatever they are reasonable, mhm.
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