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My name is Hannah Ho. I facilitate a group called Schools out. And so we have some people from schools out here today to talk a little bit about HIV and homophobia and being young and gay or young and queer in today's world. Hi, I'm Mike, and I'm gay. I'm Craig, and I'm also from Yeah, I'm Thailand, and I'm also gay. Right. Do you, um, Mike, do you want to talk a little bit [00:00:30] about how you identify and you know what? What was it like growing up at school and and being young and, well, it was always sort of OK with me at school because it was just, like a generally accepted fact. No one really worried about it or anything. It was just sort of there. Craig, um, I wasn't out at school. Um, going to an all boys school. I felt it was a bit too difficult, so I kept it to myself. Um, made it very difficult, very [00:01:00] hard. Few years I lived, but once that came out, it made a lot easier. Yeah, When I came out at school, I was pretty much queen of the world. You're saying? Yeah, I didn't have any, um, negative. Anything from anyone. And it's been the best few years ever. And how did how did all of your parents are you out to your parents and at home and your families? How did, um, I'm out to my parents and my sister and stuff? I haven't quite gotten around to telling the rest of the family, [00:01:30] mainly because I haven't actually seen them recently. But the important ones? No. Um, I did come out to my family about two years ago. Um, my father's side. I didn't come out to them because I know how they react, and it won't be very nice. Um, but on my mother's side, Yeah. No, they were fine with that. Yeah, I came out two years ago also, So I'm fed as the head of crack, and, um, [00:02:00] yeah, my family is absolutely fine. I mean, my mom was a from way back, went to the opening of pound, and yeah, I mean, everything was fine. I mean, no negative, anything like at school. I've pretty much got the perfect life for a young gay person. That's good to hear. Yeah, I came out about How old am I now? Yeah, about 12 years ago, actually. And, um, yeah, my parents did OK, but it's it's taken them quite a few years to kind of come to terms with that. They They're [00:02:30] Christian. So they they think that they have a special point of view about that. Um, but yeah, they've kind of learned to accept. Accept me for who I am and that kind of thing. So that's been quite good. Um, how How do you when you go to school, how are you finding kind of slurs and and that kind of thing, Um, you know, comments about, you know, is it that's so gay, that kind of thing. How do you does it happen in school? And how do you deal with that? Well, we do get that quite often. You know, [00:03:00] just that's so gay type thing. I get that heaps, and when I'm around, I get all I pretend to get all offended and go. You say that like it's a bad thing. And then they get they get really sorry and they keep apologising. And then I just laugh at them because they made an idiot of themselves. It's been a few years since I've actually been to school. Um, but, um, just as an example, you know, walking through the mall in, um, pretty much every second [00:03:30] person turns around or sniggers and calls you a fag or a puff, and you just turn around and smile and blow them a CAS. What else can you do? Yeah, um, slurs and stuff. I mean, yeah, at school, I've had absolutely nothing. I mean, no one really says that's so gay in Wellington, because it's so, I mean, come on. Everyone in the heart says that's OK. And whenever I go to the heart and you know no, nothing, actually, I've never had anything. I mean, I've had the odd [00:04:00] very good, but yeah, that was kind of funny. So you live. You live at the coast, don't you? Yeah. I. I go to college, and, um, we we've started up like a gay support group thing there. And, um, we've got a couple of members coming along, and, um, that's good, because most of the teachers or, well, all of the ones that know about it are really supportive about it. And they, [00:04:30] you know, they come along every so often and Yeah, it's got quite a good following. Yeah, And it will continue next year, and it's Yeah, and? And what about the climate, or what about how is the rest of the school? Do they know about the school? No, they don't know about this group. We're We're thinking of making it like, um, a queer straight alliance so that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and straight people can come along and we'll be like [00:05:00] campaigning. Sounds a bit strange, but, you know, we will probably be making posters and that sort of thing and maybe doing concerts or something. I don't know. Yeah. Wow, that sounds great. And, Tyler, you were involved in schools out, Um, for a while. Is that correct, Or, um yeah, all all through last year. Yeah. And yeah, it was It was really, really unstructured, as opposed to this year, which has been Oh, lovely. Since you've become, [00:05:30] um, but no, If schools aren't, it's pretty awesome choice. So we'll just wrap up this section. Um, and the song that I thought I would play, um, is called Papa. Papa is a rodeo by magnetic fields. And it's about these kind of two gay cowboys and It's quite funny if you listen to the los cool. So that was, um, that was rodeo by magnetic fields. I reckon the lyrics are quite funny, and it's very, very sweet [00:06:00] song. Anyway, um, so HIV aids safe sex STIs is Is HIV an issue for young people? Is it a Is it a gay thing? Is it a queer thing? Is it an old people thing? Did it happen in the eighties? And it doesn't affect us anymore. What do you reckon? Oh, well, I think that I mean, for young people today in schools, HIV is more of a joke than anything. I mean, they're not really exposed to it. I mean, a few people. I mean, they've got family members and whatnot, but [00:06:30] other than that, not really a big issue for young people. I think you know, being a young person myself, you've always got to be wary of it and do take those precautions, um, you know, promoting safe sex and, um, even though it's not much of an issue for us young people, um, you've just got to be careful. Yeah, like I'm not entirely sure if it's an issue for young people. Well, you know it is. But like, not a major thing, we have to learn about it and like, health [00:07:00] and stuff. And that's good. And we do learn that it's not just a gay thing. It is like through mother and baby and through, um, unsanitized needles and that sort of thing. But, um, yeah, like Craig said, we do have to be careful, but yeah, so do you think it's more of a A general comes under the general safe sex ST I that kind of thing rather than being a big monster off by itself. Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely. I mean, I had a friend the other day who told that they had [00:07:30] unprotected animal, and that was that They didn't really give a fuck about it. But I mean, I, I kind of had a little bit of a fit at them and told them to go get an SD. I check because I mean, an STI check is not very pretty. I mean, what a few anal swabs never really hurt anyone, but, um, HIV is should be treated as a journalist. I think. Well, it's a lot more serious. I mean, you can't drive crabs. Can you? So do young people. Pretty much like what? What do you reckon young people's [00:08:00] attitudes are to safe sex? Is it more about pregnancy for straight people? Or do you generally just do safe sex? Because it's just what you do. We've been taught in schools. We don't want to get SD. I So that's that's just, uh yeah, yeah, I think, um, you know, the young people. So a lot of them actually think that, you know, if I'm you know, if I don't have a IS or HIV and he doesn't or she doesn't, that we're fine, and we don't have to use protection. Um, [00:08:30] but I believe that you should always use protection, no matter what. No matter what, even if you're in a long term relationship with someone monogamous, Definitely. Well, you never know when someone might do the dirty on you. Um, what was something that was quite interesting? That I was reading up on some stats is that there's been I think there was 100 and 77 infections last year and kind of about in the eighties. Most of those infections HIV infections [00:09:00] were, yeah, men who have sex with men. Um, and in the last kind of few years or whatever, I can't remember the stats exactly. But there have been a lot more heterosexual infections. Um, yeah. And in the past, when you had your HIV aids academ epidemic there, a lot of the AIDS and HIV that was coming into New Zealand was from overseas. So, um, people assumed that it was, uh, many [00:09:30] of men going overseas. Party, party, You know, New Zealand is really small. You can't kind of sleep around, but overseas you can. And so people were just taking a few more risks. And so a lot of the HIV infections were overseas. Um, And now, for the men who have sex with men, the stats in New Zealand are internal infections. And so they're yeah, from New Zealand around New Zealand. Whereas the heterosexual population that are contracting HIV aids, um, are external. [00:10:00] So again, they're they're going overseas and partying and and bringing infection back. And so if you kind of look at that trend, um, in 10 years or 20 years, a lot of the heterosexual population will be internal infections, which yeah, because the heterosexual population is larger than the homosexual queer population. That's quite a you know, that's kind of a quite a quite a big deal. Almost in a sense. Yeah, well, [00:10:30] yeah. I mean, in New Zealand, it's always been the whole men who have sex with men are the biggest threat. HIV aids wise, as opposed to, you know, Tanzania, which is all mostly heterosexual. But, um yeah, another thing that's really changed in, I think in the eighties, if you were diagnosed with HIV, they gave you something, like 10 years to live, you know, because they weren't the meds. Whereas now there there seems to be more meds. I don't really know much about it. So you're even If you're diagnosed, [00:11:00] you can kind of live for a really long time. And, um yeah, So someone was saying that the pool of HIV positive people is growing, in a sense, Um, yeah, which I don't know. Yeah. I wonder if people don't think that it's a heterosexual thing. So, you know, if other people think that's a not a heterosexual thing, so they don't have to be as cautious or, you know Oh, and another thing is that a lot of young people they assume, you know, in the eighties, [00:11:30] they were given, what, 10 years to live. And now they've got meaning. It's like the attitude that you get from some some young gay people is, you know? Oh, I'm gonna get it one day. So you know what is and it's like, um yeah, what suburb of the Wellington do you live in? That's kind of scary. It is very scary. And it just makes you, you know, think about all those people out there And, you know, it just stirs up some massive trust issues, I guess. Hm. Craig, [00:12:00] do you think Is there an attitude that you've come across with other young gay men that it's It's not so not such a big deal if you get it or it's inevitable, or just people you know still really practise safe sex or, um, I mean, people that I know that are positive. HIV positive. Um, you know, they're just they're just living their life to the full and just carrying on as an old person, obviously taking precautions as they have to. And when [00:12:30] they do go to actually have some fun that they do let the other. The other person know that they're positive and yeah, but I just think that, you know, young people these days need to be a bit more precautious about, you know, using protection. Because, you know, there is a slight possibility that the other person could be infected. Cool. We'll just wrap that one up. Um, this. Yeah, I thought I'd play a track by MI a off her first [00:13:00] album. I think it might be It's, um, called Lolita, and it's a bit of a a Lankan take on the whole Lolita story, which is quite funny as well. Cool. Cool. So that was, um, Lolita by MI A quite a funny song, I think. Um, yes. So we are back again, and we are talking a little bit about stigma [00:13:30] around HIV aids and and maybe just even around, um, safe sex and sexual health. You know, um, so if and when you get a a new partner or you pick someone up at a bar, do you have conversations about your sexual history and disclose? Um, you know, would you disclose HIV? Would you disclose herpes or that kind of thing? Um, well, if you're talking to someone and you do have something like HIV or aids or something. And you, [00:14:00] you want to like date them or whatever or it's getting serious. Then you should definitely tell them that you have it, because if you don't, it's unfair on them and, you know, they run a risk of getting it type thing, and it's just Would you be worried about the reaction? Well, of course you would, you know, But it's just what you have to do, You know, there's, I mean, they can freak out, but a lot of them could just sort of go Oh, OK, you know, and accept [00:14:30] it if you you safety. And so that's something that you'd expect someone to tell you as well. Oh, yeah, Oh, yeah, I know that I would tell people if I was positive in a bar or what not. I mean, in a situation like that, I would definitely tell them if I was positive. And I do expect everyone else, you know, just with HIV or other things. It depends how serious or slash embarrassing it is. I mean, if it's more like, you know, I just got over a case of serious crabs. And it's like, [00:15:00] you know, I don't know I I do. But when it comes to, you know, stuff like IV, it's really serious. And I do expect people to tell me or anyone else if they are positive and yes, general expectation, Most respect, you know? And has it has it happened to you as someone disclosed and or how How do you think you'd react? If you know, if nice, cute boy in a bar and getting serious or take them home or you take them that kind of thing. And yeah, Do you think that would change your perception of [00:15:30] them or I personally I I would be a lot more cautious. I mean, yeah, I mean, I I only personally know a lot, Um, older people with HIV aids that that I know are positive. But, um I I haven't actually had a young person come up to me as having being positive and that, I guess, would be very scary for me, I think. But I'll get over it and just like, you know, you get over other stuff, but yeah, I mean, I would hope that if someone was positive that you know if [00:16:00] things were gonna carry on later that night that, you know, they would come across and tell me. But I think people these days that may be infected aren't all open and honest about it. I mean, a lot of people are just up to sex. And if they were infected, I don't think they would actually tell me personally, I would be very open and honest because I don't want you let it down the track to them for them to find out from somebody else and then have a stab at me for it. [00:16:30] And how do you think your families would react? Or your friends would react if you found out that you were HIV positive. I think coming out as a positive person would just be coming out as a gay person. Personally, from what I've heard, I mean, um, Well, there was one case. I mean, I heard this lady was talking about how she had to. She was working with counselling with the guy, and he, um, committed suicide because he had HIV. So she had to go home and [00:17:00] go to his parents' house and and say one You know, your son's getting. Secondly, he was HIV HIV positive. And thirdly, he's killed himself. And that that's something like that. I mean, would definitely scare your parents, but I mean, coming out. I mean, my mom, I guess, would be destroyed, but I couldn't imagine anything else, Really. I mean, it's a serious thing. Well, like if if you got HIV, that would sort [00:17:30] of their concern for you would be more than any stigma they like with your parents. They're gonna be so worried about it that they're not really gonna not care is not the word. You know, they're not gonna worry about how you got it or anything. They're just gonna be concerned that you got it and that it is deadly, and, you know, they won't sort of disown you or anything for it. What's quite interesting about the stats that I've been looking at? Is that the Yeah, a lot of the infections [00:18:00] are older men, actually, And, um, someone was saying that might be something to do with, um, you know, if you're in your forties and taking meds gives you another 40 years, that's kind of when you anyway, so, you know, maybe I wonder. Yeah, I wonder if that makes people care a bit less or what Not because you're like, Oh, well, I wouldn't die anyway. It depends when you do get infected. I mean, if you've been affected by somebody who's had HIV for for a long [00:18:30] time and they've been taking the medication then so far, all the medication that they've taken will pretty much have a chance of not working. Or, I mean, it's it's a lot. The chances of you not surviving would be a lot slimmer than if you got infected by somebody who just had HIV aids. But, um, yeah, I mean, like you said that in the older population, it's more popular. Mostly, I guess, because of Internet dating and saunas and what not. I mean, I don't really see huge amounts of young people meeting up online. I mean, they do, but, [00:19:00] I mean, not as severe, I think. So. You guys, some of you guys know people who live with HIV Um, what are these stories like have do they face, um, heaps of discrimination or prejudice within within the gay community or the queer community Or, um, personally, I mean all my friends do joke about HIV aids and I mean it. They don't do it around people with who they know are positive. But I mean, really, [00:19:30] I mean that they do know it's a serious issue, and they do know that they don't mean to intend to hurt anyone, you know, positive. But I mean, they're always very cautious about what they're teasing. But it's just really they try and treat treat it as a joke. Yeah, you know, I guess it's the defence mechanism. Maybe I was working at a funeral for about two years, and during those two years I had two cases come through the HIV positive. And, um, I mean, I can't go too much into detail detail [00:20:00] about the cases, But one particular gentleman who was heterosexual was not, you know, not having man to man sex. Um, he was diagnosed with AIDS about 16 years previously, and after seeing what had happened to him, you know, seeing a photo of him, you know, five years earlier and seeing him how he was once he had passed away, it just brought it home to me, you know, really made me think you know that you have to be safe and you have to use protection. And it wasn't nice what I saw. And I just hope [00:20:30] that people are going to be safe and do take the right precautions. Yeah, So I guess, um, yeah, there's there's a couple of guys I know who are HIV positive and yeah, they're saying that the stigma that they get, um, within the queer community or within the gay community is is really, really hard to deal with, because you kind of, I guess, as a gay man or a a queer person, you you expect prejudice and bigotry from the general population. But then it's kind of [00:21:00] like when your own gives you shit for these things are really hard to deal with. That's kind of cuts a little bit more. So I guess, Yeah, there is. Yeah, II. I think there's still quite a bit of stigma and, um, prejudice and yeah, ignorance around HIV aids and yeah, definitely something to kind of keep on it and keep educating ourselves about, um, within gay community or queer community. Um, yeah, well, we'll wrap this one up. [00:21:30] Um and this is a song. It's called. It's called soft by Kings of Leon. And it's about this guy. And he really likes this girl. Um, And he he gets I think he gets really stoned or drunk and turns up at a party. And he's so stoned and drunk that he passes out in her garden and he's real gutted because he can't go and spy on her, but yeah, so So that's quite a funny song. Cool. So that's, um, us from schools [00:22:00] out. Thank you for listening. Um, yeah. Fantastic. Just remember the guys. Next time you're having fun, use a condom and just be conscious about things, things.
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