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I'm Renee. We're in San Francisco. We're in my little hobbit hole and there are 20 paintings around me. Somewhere are from the future. Some are from the past. I started making art work pretty seriously after I left college and I ran away from New York City screaming Bad place. Um, and I just got really lucky and sold a lot of artwork and kind of got comfortable in San Francisco [00:00:30] and and just kept doing that and doing that for years and years. So it's then it's like So last year I had a motorcycle accident. I shattered my collarbone and I because I'm an extreme human being, and I So I was doubling up on Percocet, which is totally not a good thing to do. So I was laying in bed on drugs and prescription. Thank you. And I came up with this story about a boy who has a giant hedgehog on top of his head, and I think, somehow just laying there injured, [00:01:00] you know, just trying to get better. I was able to kind of drift off into this parallel universe that somehow had to do with me, but it took me a long time to figure out why and how, and I actually ended up having to go to psychotherapy because of it. It's true, Um, and then out of that came a short story I wrote with a friend of mine. He just He kind of took the way I talked and put it into words, which was so nice of him. So then I started illustrating it, and that took about a year. [00:01:30] And then I just decided it had to be a comic book because of the elements in the book. I'm a visual person, so they can only be explained visually. So I have to draw every everything, so because no one will understand what's inside my head if I don't draw it. So I was initially afraid of all the work, but then when I started to do it, I realised it was so much fun. And it's kind of like making a movie. There's angles and shots, and there's a narrative, and you have to make it flow right, so I'm still at the beginning. I have only three pages [00:02:00] done, but I'm pretty serious. It'll be done soon. So who is it aimed at? It's kind of like a huge love letter to any little gay boy who had to run away from home. And I'll probably state that right in the beginning. If you read the story, you'll you'll. You'll understand why it's all about. It's all about boys who had to leave awful circumstances to find out who they were, and they come to San Francisco and live in Golden Gate Park and interact [00:02:30] with each other. And in the end, hopefully it'll have some sort of meaning for that little kid who needs to figure out what he's doing. So I kind of want in a way. I think I'm kind of making it for myself when I was younger. And then by doing that, I'll be able to somehow affect somebody's life, maybe make them realise that they don't have to live where they're living or have to put up with what people are doing to them and that they can be something else. Can [00:03:00] you talk a wee bit more about that? Um, one of the ways that I remember escaping was to go like comic books, which were a lot cheaper back then, and draw from the pages, which is kind of how I learned to draw people. So, um, it's very hard for me to talk about what happened when I was a kid because it's terribly unfortunate. So that's why I think I'm making it for myself when I was that age. The beginning of the story is my story, the first probably four pages of [00:03:30] it, and then it becomes crazy land after that. But it's about a boy who, um, unfortunately has to live in a basement and, um wakes up one day and realises he doesn't have to put up with it anymore. And he crawls out the window and doesn't go home. That's the story. What age 14. Hm? So it could kind of, you know, kind of comes from a very personal place, so it's very important to me. But it's also important to me because I know there are so many gay boys [00:04:00] that go through that, and if there was something that could help them make me just feel a little bit better, and if I somehow could do that for somebody else, I would feel better. So is it important to you to have a mass audience, or are you just happy with, you know, like one. Well, I could say I'm very spoiled and that a lot of people have always been curious about what I do and have been generous enough to purchase them and keep them and all that sort of thing. [00:04:30] So if I were to, you know, if I never sold anything, I again I probably would be a little offended. Um, but it's more important that I follow my instincts creatively. I have a pretty good feeling I have a kind of a grasp on what a gay boy might want to read if he was coming of age and trying to figure out who he was. So I think it'll be OK. Can you talk a wee bit about [00:05:00] just the development from from these quite large paintings here to the comic? I started out large because that's how I draw so I can use my hand to this full ability, and then I can trick it down later. Um, but it's also how I kind of figured out the elements and what it all meant. I kind of created them like they were fine art paintings, even though they were comic book based because I thought the imagery, I had to kind of work it out in fine art painting. You can kind of like process [00:05:30] images and work them and rework them and figure out what they are. So through that I came up with the swords and the clocks. And so our main character is obsessed with telling time, but he doesn't know how to. So he steals clocks from everybody around the park and puts them in his little tree house, and he can't read. So he's out these books. So through the paintings, I was able to come up with the clocks in the books and draw them and redraw them and come up with the swords, too. And I think I wanted them to be fine art paintings. Then [00:06:00] I realised that to reach the people I really want to reach, it has to be in a format that is cheap and, um, available. Not everybody can afford to buy a big painting, and I think the people that I the people I most care about are people that can't buy a large painting. That doesn't mean people who by large painting should stop them. Um, but I'm most concerned with the the emotions of those boys that, [00:06:30] you know, they don't have a lot of money. So to get them to read it and to touch them, I have It has to be something they can go buy for, You know, like four bucks, five bucks, whatever it is. Have you had any feedback from that audience? Yeah, they mostly love it. And, oddly enough, for some reason, I, um, Asian women love it a whole lot. There's this whole subculture called Yahweh. It stems from Japan. And when I was first [00:07:00] making the comic book well, first making the paintings about the comic book I looked at a lot of the awe comic books, and they're all really high drama emotional stories about gay boys in love that are made by women for women in Japan. So somehow, um, I get emails from Asian girls who love it. I was thinking more about, um, that kind of target audience that you were thinking of of of young, Um, but I haven't gotten to the ones that I'm really trying to get to yet. [00:07:30] I'm mostly just reaching all the gay boys that I always have before. I actually want to go more back in time to that emotional place when you're kind of growing up. Is it hard for you to kind of, um, draw the stuff when it has got such a deep impact? Personally, I think if if I didn't care about it, it wouldn't look so good if it resonates that I've been there and then I made it, then that's mostly what I care about. So can we talk a wee bit about your earlier work? [00:08:00] Well, I think I always geographically, I always tried. I strived to draw people the best that I could for a long time to prove to myself that I could do it. So I think it all was preparation for being able to scale everything down to a more comic booky style. I don't think I could be able to draw the people that I'm drawing this comic book. If I hadn't drawn or gone out of my way to try to draw the figure the way that it is in real life. But then again, you know I never quite did it right. So it's a very comic [00:08:30] book. It's very graphic. I always drew with lots of shadows that were very dark and then very light. I think it's because I learned to draw people from looking at comic books when I was younger. If I look at all the old ones, they kind of look like all the boys before they get to the park. It's like all the boys before They quite, you know, kind of teeter off the insane block all the same people. I think I've been drawing the same damn story over and over and over and over for the past eight years. [00:09:00] And will it ever be finished? I hope not. Um, I'd like to finish. I'd like to have a finished product, but I don't want to finish the idea in the story. If I stop having the idea, then there's not quite anything to do. Does I know the ski? No, I mean occasionally. I don't have the energy to do something, but it always comes back and I always make something. You probably [00:09:30] know this. You know the feeling. I'm sure you take photographs. You're probably just not inspired sometimes, But eventually it comes around and you have something else to say or to do Well, I, I find I actually need breaks. I you know, like I mean, if, for instance, you know, I I'm photographing a couple of models in a very short space of time, Then I just don't I don't see it that there has to be that kind of freshness and and kind of has to be unique. The subject matter each time, even if it is a human being, are these are these [00:10:00] real people? I mean, are these real models or one of my absolute favourite thing to do And you saw them as you commented when you walked from my apartment is to steal images from old seventies magazines, old porn, seventies magazines and jobs and robbers. It's a classic, and it was $15 in 1978 and you're buying it for the art I am because they just change their heads and I have all these bodies to work with, and they're they're actually quite nice photos. They're a little bit nicer [00:10:30] than the stuff that's made today. So what's your favourite image here? It's impossible to say, probably always the one that I just finished. And then if I look back and then I find like, real favourites. But Zebra Boy is my favourite at the moment because I think he's really has intense eyes and is really beautiful. And he's escaping. So anybody escaping looks really intense. You know, it's like that. Try to put these little childhood elements, even even though it's kind of dark and it's [00:11:00] kind of strange. Try to throw something from childhood in it that can be kind of cute. It's like a release. Almost. I really like this, Um, this black and white one here that's very peaceful. That's just relaxing and taking a nap. He's watching over Kitty. Kitty is his boyfriend. Yeah, it's a little overwhelming when I'm sitting here and I'm looking at it and you're making me talk about it. It's It's better when it's contained in the drawers. Talk about that kind of overpowering [00:11:30] feeling. It can be very frustrating because if the idea in your head is so strong and so big and so powerful and you can't physically make it fast enough, it kind of can be very overwhelming. You know, your hands can only do so much and your body can only do so much. I'm not good at talking about myself. Why is an effort for you because you shut up at my door? Um, because [00:12:00] I'm I'm forced to think about the overwhelming things on my head. And sometimes I'd rather just peacefully make stuff than think. It's like the same thing about, like writing an artist statement. It's really difficult to do. It's like you just don't really want to. Sometimes it's better just to be than to think about what it is that you're being. I'd rather just be it, um, so do you. Do you have a paint without your glasses? I'm sure I've done that before, but no. And it's not like something I go out of my way to do or anything like that. [00:12:30] Usually I'm really, really up close and really intense about looking at every little inch and making sure everything's perfect. I'm a little obsessive when it comes to it, like I will, like, just stay there until it's right. So ultimately things can be right. I know some people, just they they're never satisfied with with their their final output. Well, I remember my professors in art school talking about that. There were artists that would go even to museums and, like, touch [00:13:00] up their own paintings and stuff like that. Um, and I totally appreciate that. But if it's done when I know a piece like, kind of encases all the emotions that it's supposed to and it keeps them there, then I know it's done. So once I reach that point, I don't want anything to do with it anymore, because it's like breaking china or something. You just don't want to touch it. So you you can, you know, you can fuck up an entire painting just with, like, one stroke, and the whole thing is ruined. So if you [00:13:30] reach the point where it feels right to stop, do you ever discard paintings? Yes, but you won't ever see them. But you still hold on to them. Maybe for a time. And then I or I turn it over and do something else. Yeah, I've destroyed a few of them. In fact, my my neighbour next to me was telling me he used to go through my garbage can. Um, and I have no idea why, because they I mean, I would shred them pretty much, and he would pull them out and, like, look [00:14:00] at them and take them to his apartment, which ultimately, I think that makes him creepy. But yeah, I do. I throw shit away if I think it's bad. But II, I don't think I destroyed that many things, though. I try to be pretty. I don't wanna say calculated, but I really do think about it before I start it. I'm not gonna I think some artists probably approach it from a very free standpoint. Like I'm just gonna create something. But I have to know what I'm gonna do before I do it. I have to have a very concrete idea. And [00:14:30] how do those ideas come? I always like stories and narratives and things that have a point or a message. So as long as as long as I have something like that going through my head, I can usually come up with images to go along with it. I think I'm probably more of an illustrator. Yeah, I couldn't. I understand the whole, like, just make something but I. I think for me to make something has to be somehow grounded in reality. Like it has to come from an emotional [00:15:00] point that is real in the time that we live. Um, I really love the imagery in the comic book. I love how romantic it is. I love the stories between all the boys. I like this. It's just unashamed to be gay from right out the starting gate. It's not even about being gay at all, but all the boys are going to be gay. Hey, can you briefly touch on is what's the organisation? Is it visual aids? It's. [00:15:30] And how does that how does that relate to you? It's a really fantastic organisation that started out in the eighties. Um, the one goal to help artists produce artwork that have, um, a life threatening illness to, I think, promote their health and their awareness of their existence, and just to give them something to feel good about. Um, so I guess you know how many years later Now they're still doing that, [00:16:00] and they're just a bigger organisation, and they just they're very, very supportive of of a a section of the community that is very large in the gay community. And they support people with HIV, and I think they do now. People who have are cancer survivors So if you're an artist and you kind of have to get over that that block that stumbling block, they give you money, money to buy art supplies and then they keep a slide registry and they [00:16:30] they just kind of look out for us a little bit. So how long have you been involved with that? About four years. They weren't as big as when I joined. And now I know that there are. There are organisations a lot bigger, almost more serious, like like they they can pull strings now like they have. They have some muscle behind them, but I think it always was and always has been. An organization's sole purpose was to make people feel better about creating something and [00:17:00] having it be seen. It's pretty rare. Do you think it works? Yeah, there were times when, um, I didn't particularly feel like doing much of anything because I just thought I was going to die or something. So being able to make artwork, you know, kind of help me get over it and and get on with my life.
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