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I am originally from Christchurch. I was born here in 1954 and moved to San Francisco in the eighties and then back to Auckland, where I lived for 15 years and then in Thames in the Coromandel, Uh, for another few years and then back to Christchurch in the early two thousands. And I came back to look after my mother and sister who were ill [00:00:30] at that point in time and stayed. So I've returned to my roots. So that's, uh that's a little bit about who I am. Um, the peer support group, Um, for HIV positive people when I returned, uh, there was nothing, uh, no support group for positive people in Christchurch. What year was that? It it would have been probably. Well, it was [00:01:00] 2001, 2000. Yeah, probably 2001. There had been groups, but they had Yes, there were controversies around them all. Uh, and, um, I'm not I wasn't involved in them, so I've only had hears a and, um uh, So I best not talk about those, but, uh, there were, as I said, a number of, uh, initiatives, uh, [00:01:30] both by positive people. and, uh, people who sought to support them. Um uh, some were OK, Some weren't, uh, that were most weren't, um the foundation, Uh, the New Zealand Days Foundation. Uh, I made contact with the clinic here. And the person the the counsellor at the time? Um, no, [00:02:00] the facilitator or the manager of the clinic, Ian Smith at the time. Uh uh invited me to, um, set up a peer support group for positive people here in Christchurch. Um, given that I had a history of doing that in other places. So, um, and I suggest to that. So, um, [00:02:30] at the beginning, uh, Bruce Kilmister from body Positive of Auckland, uh, came down to Christchurch, and I don't remember exactly the the beginnings of that, but he came down and, uh, there was a lunt that was held at a hotel that body of Auckland paid for. And it was to [00:03:00] get positive people together and talk about whether they wanted to have, you know, um, to get together and what they wanted. Basically, uh, what came out of that meeting was that there was a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, Um, a lot of seriously psychotic people who who who had been, uh, involved in other, um [00:03:30] initiatives, Um, psychotic and and, Well, I don't know, really. They were just crazy. And, um, but overall, there was a lot of anger toward, um, the foundation, uh, the services here in Christchurch and the history involved. Uh, so the meeting really was a a pain in the heart section. [00:04:00] And so, um, there was a a youngish man there in his thirties from, uh, Ashburton. And, um, he had never been involved in any of the support groups, and, uh, he had been involved in setting up incorporated societies and and trusts and other places for other reasons. And so he offered his services, uh, to set it up. His name was Aaron McDonald. [00:04:30] He has since died. Um, about three years ago, and he took on the set up of the Incorporated Society of Body Positive Canterbury. So and that, uh, the document that he, um, put together was dated December 2002, so [00:05:00] that would have been the start of body positive. Canterbury, can you describe for me what the benefits are of a peer support group? As opposed to something like the AIDS Foundation. Well, the AIDS Foundation doesn't actually offer support to positive view. Uh, it offers counselling and and, uh, and testing, and that's about it. And advocacy. [00:05:30] Um, but there's something about just being with other positive people where you don't have to explain yourself. You don't have to interact with a counsellor. You don't have to interact with someone who could be pushing their own agenda. Um, like a carer or whatever, Um, or someone that no do go for, for want of a better word. Um, I know that's a judgement, but that's [00:06:00] often what it feels like. And, um, even even those people who do their best to separate their own agenda from, um, but from the service that they're providing, Really? You know, it doesn't It doesn't actually feel the same as just having other positive people. So, uh, and one can learn quite a lot from other positive people [00:06:30] because they're they're going through a similar thing and along a similar path. So, for instance, um uh, side effects of medication or, uh, how to deal with them, um, or what they might be if they're looking at going on to a different medication or new newly going on to medication, um, services in the community that may be there [00:07:00] that the foundation staff know of, but may not even think about, You know when you're meeting with them. So, um, but it it's mainly just actually being around other people where you don't have to explain who you are. You don't have to say, uh, why you're not working or why you're not doing this or why you're tired or why you're not able to eat certain things or why you're not able to or [00:07:30] why you look like you do. There's no you know, there's It's a very unpressured situation, and for a lot of people, that's the only time that they actually ever have. That is on that, you know, when they meet with their peers. So that's the benefit, and it's a huge one. I can yes, I can do that. So, prior to body positive, Canterbury being formed were there kind of informal groups that were were meeting [00:08:00] or groupings. There were, um, groupings. Uh, there was a man, uh, Colin Docherty and and who's still in Christchurch? Not positive. Who, uh, is a mess. And he used to have informal, uh, Sunday, once a month, I think, or once every couple of months, a Sunday barbecue or something at his house and for positive people. And that was one of the the more beneficial [00:08:30] ones that had already stopped before I came down. But people that I spoke to, um were, um, only had good things to say about that. Uh, there were others that were started and wow, well, I don't know. It's just Yeah, it's best not to go there, but, um, needless to say, [00:09:00] there were occasional attempts, but, um, I was I wasn't aware of any groups as such. How was it for you coming back to Christchurch and having been in peer support groups and other places and then not having that in Christchurch? How did it? How did it make you feel? Oh, for me. Uh, it was fine. I mean, I didn't need it. And, um uh, at that point, I didn't [00:09:30] need it. And, um yeah, so it wasn't a need that I I had for myself, So yes. So it was purely, um I was asked to do it, and I did it for the others. Really? So Yeah. In fact, it's actually hard work. So, um yeah. So, um, all the way it's set up now is hard work. Was anything put in place when the Incorporated Society was formed, that would [00:10:00] stop it kind of drifting back into some of the kind of previous times where groups didn't quite work. No, nothing was set up and as such, but it was I think we had more structure, probably than the others. Uh, and but it came down to us having to police ourselves. And, um, and as you'll see [00:10:30] when we get on to pos Plus and the demise of pos Plus, um, that really didn't work. So yeah. So it did break down? Yes. What was your role with body positive, Canterbury? Uh, well, I was the chair of body positive and was the chair right through. And, um, basically, because no one else wanted to do those tasks. And so Aaron was the treasurer, [00:11:00] and we had different people in the role of secretary, um, and how many members? It started off with about, uh, 15, 10 to 15 and went up to about 2025. And some of those have died and Some have moved away, but the current group is still 25. What kind of activities did [00:11:30] you undertake? It was mainly, uh, it was mainly based around a a monthly gathering on It's always been the third Sunday of the month, and it would be a, uh, a lunch, and there'd be a discussion. And, um, occasionally there'd be someone brought in, like one of the doctors or someone from the foundation. Or [00:12:00] a visitor like Bruce would come down from Auckland, um, or someone from Australia who may be passing through and they would talk about different things. Uh, so that was the main thing. Uh, then we had, uh, a weekend for people in in South London and no, and the south of the South Island. And that had about I think [00:12:30] it was 15 to 20 people, uh, all men. And that was, um I can't remember the place that where we had it, but, uh, that was for most of the men there. It was the first time they'd ever met anyone who was positive, and some of them had been positive for 15 years. So it showed us how isolated people are in the South Island Well, and in the middle of the North Island as well. And, [00:13:00] um and there are no services, so that was a one off event. Um, we were never able to get funding to do any others. Um, even though we tried and, um, and it was quite difficult to actually get the thing together, Um, because of privacy issues and all this and how to get the make the contact. Fortunately, the infectious diseases specialist in Dunedin Hospital, um, passed [00:13:30] on a notice to all of his, um, male clients. And that was how we were able to make contact with them. Uh, but and there were one or two on our books, but, you know, that must have been quite an amazing experience meeting people that have not to meet other HIV positive people for for years. Yeah, well, that's that's something that I've had experience of ever since I've been in the field in 84. [00:14:00] But, um I mean, it's a it's a reality in New Zealand, uh, people outside of the main centres don't have, uh, contact that will very rarely have contact and don't know what's provided because they don't have any way of finding that information. And if they're not on computers, or, you know, um, don't know about Bo positive or you know, then they won't. They just won't [00:14:30] know what's available for them. And, uh, and the specialists don't, um I mean, they're there to look after their health. Not after, um, other things. Yeah. So what kind of conversations we had on that weekend? A lot of it was to do with, uh, actually, uh, writing misinformation. We found, uh, to begin with. So people had very [00:15:00] strange ideas about the the the disease that they had. Um, I can't give you examples, but there was some very weird, uh, I. I remember there was some very weird conversations that had So we actually basically had to do in AIDS 101, with these people. And so that everyone was talking from the same song sheet to begin with. And then, uh, we got people to tell their story. Really? And so that's how we found out [00:15:30] just what had happened to these people, you know? And, um, and the remarkable ability that they had to survive. Yeah, that survived very well. Yeah. And the telling of the stories were really great because people, everyone has a chance to tell this story. And, um and some went on for a couple of hours, you know? And, um and they were quite difficult for a lot of people to hear, and [00:16:00] so that you know, that, um that caused some problems for some people because they especially the longer term people, because they didn't want to have to bring up all that stuff. You know, that that all that stuff was so far in the past and that that developed, uh, initiatives to not suppressed necessarily. But to live [00:16:30] with this stuff and it had served them well. And here it was all being sort of brought up. So it was necessary to sort of take some people aside and just sit with them and and really just say, Well, you know, if that's if it's too difficult, just go for a walk. And you know, you don't need to actually sit through these things and, um, but for others, it wasn't really important, so but they all did. They [00:17:00] all, you know, it was just actually a matter of voice in it, and then they would come back. And, um because they I think they realised that, uh, hearing the listening was actually just as important as the same. And, um And so they they realised that it was important for these people to be heard. Their stories were important, you know. And, um yeah. [00:17:30] So, yes. So that's, um, that it was a great weekend, and, uh, we tried several avenues of getting extra funding for extra weekends. Um, the one story out of it that was really amazing was this, um the people doing the catering, uh, was a family, a local family, Uh, and [00:18:00] they killed the lamb for the roast dinner and all this sort of thing. They were farmers and the mother and daughter and and husband and son, I think No, the mother, daughter and husband were all involved in this, and, um and we couldn't work out why they were so so involved and wanted to communicate with people and wanted to, you know, they weren't [00:18:30] pushy or anything, but and they we were a bit concerned that they may have had some sort of religious agenda or whatever, but that never eventuated and right at the end of the weekend. Uh, they were thanked, um, at the end of the weekend and by the full group. And they then the husband then said that he wanted to tell us a story and that the story was that their son had just come out as a gay man, [00:19:00] like, literally, I think, that year and, um And they wanted they wanted to do this so that they could actually learn more, meet more gay men and learn what it was to be. You know, something about being gay and, uh, and to be informed about HIV, uh, so that they could support their son not [00:19:30] to become infected. And I thought, what? Uh, it was really quite amazing. I mean, you know, they were crying, and when they were saying this and it was like, Yeah, pretty full on stuff. So yeah, so it was It was quite an amazing weekend, right in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it was it was somewhere in Milton or something like that. Way the hell out in the middle of nowhere and out of Dunedin. [00:20:00] OK, you say that it it was hard to get funding. Why? Why do you think that was, well, the foundation gave us some funding towards it, but, I mean, it actually cost quite a lot of money and, uh, to support people to get their number one. You know, it's not easy. And we wanted to do another one in the north of the South Island, and that would have even been bigger. But, um, to get the people, there was gonna be a difficult one. And, [00:20:30] um, I think it I think the budget was something like $15,000 in total. I mean, we had to. I mean, it was a weekend we had. We brought in a facilitator from Auckland. So there were We all had to get down there, and he had to get down there, and we had to hire the venue, pay for the food, and it needs to be comfortable. And it needs to be good, you know, it's no good just having a camp. I mean, it has [00:21:00] to be, uh, um, some of the people are not well and, you know, and they need and they're on benefits and things like that. And why should they, you know, have fish and chips? You know, it doesn't make sense. So we made sure that the food was good and the, um and the place was warm and, you know, and clean and all that sort of thing. And and, I mean, bedding had to be [00:21:30] supplied all that sort of stuff. I mean, it was quite it was quite an event, and it's amazing how quickly the oh, and then there's postage and contacts and phone calls. And it's quite a nightmare, really. And, um, getting people from a to B is the was the most difficult. I guess I was wondering is peer to peer support seen as a valid thing in terms of funders, when they when they're looking to fund something. Did you find that generally, And [00:22:00] funders? Uh, yes, it was good. Uh, we always had, uh, funding support from, uh, various trusts around the place. I mean, the work involved in getting those was phenomenal. And that was what created the the problems at the end of um but, uh, the foundation supported us. Uh uh, with various amounts, but not a lot, because they had their own things. [00:22:30] And, um and we were our own organisation at that point, and we were getting funding, so we never wanted to really tap into this stuff. I mean, they supported us, but, um, and supported us generously. Um, but, you know, it was, uh we preferred to try and get our own stuff. One of the problems was that body positive of Auckland. Um saw themselves as [00:23:00] a national organisation and applied to all the South Island, uh, trusts. So when we would apply Because our name was similar, they would say that we'd already been funded. And, um when we were two different organisations and that led to problems between our organisation and body boss of Auckland and also, um, lead [00:23:30] us to change the name to so but that's still, um it was still difficult and body positive. Auckland never took us off their website as a branch note, uh, for about another two years after we changed the name, which was about when we stopped. So anyway, so So when did the name change to I think you said 2006. [00:24:00] Which would be about right? Yeah, it was about two years before the end. I think we finished in 2008. You mentioned earlier on that the chairperson's job was a really hard one, that nobody really wanted to kind of take that on. But no, no one wanted to take it on. It wasn't hard. It's just that no one wanted to take it on. Um, I was the coordinator of the group. So is just the title that that I had but facilitating [00:24:30] or coordinating the group, No one else. They wanted to come along. They didn't want to actually do any of the work. So, um, in organising it or facilitating it, So, um, we only ever had three people really who were involved in organisational sort of aspects of it. So how much time a week. So would you be spending on organising events? Uh, I'd say it'd be a couple of days a month. Uh, and that included phone [00:25:00] calls with Aaron, which would go on for our house. And, um uh, he had to know a and and, uh, the other person involved. And then it was, uh, coordinating the food. And the at times we were meeting, uh, away from at the beginning, we met away from everyone's house. And so at the beginning, it was actually at the foundation. So that meant going and picking up a key and and [00:25:30] then going back again on the day, unlocking it, setting it up, cleaning up, then taking the key back on the Monday, all this sort of nonsense. And then we moved to another place and that involved exactly the same stuff. And, um and then finally, I just said, I've had enough And, uh so now the group meets at my house, and it has done since then. So, um, and it's so much easier. [00:26:00] But it's the like getting the food together. Like all you have to come up with a menu. You have to buy the food you have to or or bring it in. You have to go and pick it up. You have to go shopping. Uh, you've got to clean, uh, you know, a group of gay men coming to your house or and other people, but the gay men in particular I mean, you know what it's like, So you've got to clean. You've got, you know, and, um [00:26:30] and also it it does need to be cleaned because of people's immunity and low immunity and stuff, and and it's only once a month, but it's still a whole weekend goes, and then you've got to You've got to set it all up. You've got to cook them with food. If it's been cooked, uh and then you've got to host it and then you've got to clean up. And so it's a whole weekend. So it's a whole weekend in plus [00:27:00] so but it's it works. It's a lot easier doing it that way than having to go to somewhere and because it's much more pressured. So Pos Plus didn't last that much longer, did it? It was only was it a couple of years before it? Yeah, the, um one of the problems was, Well, the problem was that Aaron got ill and seriously ill, and she ended up in him dying. And at the [00:27:30] same time, we talked with the membership and they, um they were supportive of continuing on, but not uh, not setting up another organisation. And, uh so the foundation said that they would support us for the funds for the for the lunch, and, um and so we [00:28:00] we never set up another organisation and we just use an umbrella organisation to receive the funds and we just have the lunch and that's it. And we're not affiliated with any groups. We don't. We're not an official organisation, uh, or a legal entity. Um, we don't have any contact with body positive Auckland or positive women in Auckland or the Wellington Group. Um, [00:28:30] the foundation? Well, we have monthly contact with them because they give us the money. But that's about it. Um, and it works it. It's much easier and it takes all the pressure out of it. And yeah, so and it just means that we provide peer support, full stop, nothing else. So we don't get into the politics and which is pretty nasty between organisations [00:29:00] or can be and, um and so it sort of freezes up just to look after each other. Really? So that's that's the history there. So the Christchurch Support group came out of pos Plus, and what kind of activities did that did that do it solely? It solely provides a once a month gathering. Yeah, so there's no, [00:29:30] um, there's no advocacy or politics or any of that type of thing involved. Occasionally we may discuss an issue that, um, that someone wants to talk about. But, uh, again, we don't have contact with any of the other groups, so, you know, they don't, uh They don't contact us. We don't contact them. Yeah. How many members? Uh, be about 25 on the books. We don't [00:30:00] get that many. We don't get that many to, uh, any one gathering, but we at Christmas time, we always get close to 20. But, uh, we've never had the full 25. Yeah, but there are 25 that get notified men, but for me And yeah, so there we are in 2008, 2009, and suddenly, at the end of 2010, there was a major earthquake [00:30:30] in Christchurch. What impact did that first earthquake have well on you and also the group, uh, the first earthquake didn't have much of an impact on the group. Um, at all so well, not well. Some individual members, uh, had problems, uh, with their house. Uh, but they were repairable. And, um, [00:31:00] but none of none of them actually had any major thing that I remember after the first one. For me, it was sort of like, um, the first one was a non event, really compared to the others. But, um, the first one. I mean, it was interesting. And it was, you know, it was, um, scary and all the rest of it, But, [00:31:30] um uh, there was no damage to the house I was in at that point in time and and we just carried on. Really? Yeah. So there were No, there were no issues after the first one. Had you ever experienced something like a magnitude 7.1 earthquake? No, not really, No, not like that. No, I've been in the earthquake here in Christchurch and that, but that was nothing [00:32:00] like that at all. Um, but the the second one was far worse. The first one was nothing, really. I mean, I was in bed. It was at four o'clock in the morning or whatever it was. And, um, it was just like someone was rocking the bed. Really, But, uh, and the aftermath of it was more bizarre because it was dark. So there was no power in the area and [00:32:30] alarms car alarms were going, and people were outside sort of talking on the streets and things like that and and you'd see sort of candles moving in the windows of houses and stuff like that. And, um and then there'd be the occasional aftershock and things, but yeah, after a while, I mean, it's just it was just back to sleep. Really? Yeah. That kind of immediate reaction of just walking into the street and having it kind of pitch [00:33:00] black with no power, that must be quite a surreal. Well, it is when you're in the middle of the city and you're used to it and very quiet, except for the alarms and things like that. You know, it's like you don't have, like, there were lots of takeaway bars and things all around it where I used to live, and the refrigeration units would be going all the time. So there was this constant hum, but they had all gone off. So [00:33:30] it was just It was quite strange Silence, really. And, um and and because it was in the middle of, you know, early morning, um, the traffic wasn't around and and that so it was just fortunate that it was there. Where were you living? I was living in spray at that point in time. So in the Anchor Street. So it's It's very central to the city. So it's basically [00:34:00] actually, it's in Sydney, Um uh, one block away from Brown Street. So did you think at the time that there would have been casualties from that kind of sized earthquake? I wondered, But, uh, yeah, I didn't know. Really? Yeah, because there was no damage around us. So all our chimneys were all well up. And it wasn't until the next day when I went out to shop [00:34:30] or something and I noticed that all the chimneys were down all the way along the road, um, further down and, you know, and all this sort of thing. And, uh, I was thinking, Well, there's a bit more to this and what meets the eye. But yeah, there wasn't there wasn't it didn't have much effect at all. So in between that earthquake and the bigger one, which I call the bigger one, [00:35:00] we moved or I moved and moved into an old villa on the other side of town, and that villa had no chimneys left, so they'd fallen down. The bricks were still on the roof when we arrived, and, um, they hadn't been cleared off, and they just had tar holds over the holes. And, um but that was the only major damage that had been done to it. [00:35:30] Had you moved because of earthquake damage in the food? No. I moved because the other place was too small and a friend of mine had come back from France and wanted to stay and and flat together. And, uh so we moved into a bigger place. And it's such a beautiful area where we moved to so compared to the other one. And when did you move to a Yeah, so going forward, I think six months to February, where you say the big earthquake, [00:36:00] which was actually lesser in magnitude But, um, closer to the what was that that was that was far worse because it had a bigger impact. And it was, um I mean, it was in the afternoon, so it was, uh, it was I mean, I was at home on that day and was sitting at the computer and remember when it started looking down the corridor and the back of the house was was [00:36:30] moving, um, sway and lift, you know, back and forth and uh, in the beginning wasn't too bad. I mean, things were falling and that and then I thought, uh, hang on. And then I stood up, and that was when there were two jolts, very heavy jolts, and they threw me to the floor. So and that was when everything fell over that was gonna fall. Um, so, um, [00:37:00] it was quite a a strange experience. That one was far worse inexperience in the other. And, um, there was no surety at all. I mean, you know, if you'd been outside, you would have ended up on the ground, and, um and the whole of the inside was trashed. Really? So, you know, book shelves. I mean, they it was our fault that we hadn't actually attached [00:37:30] them to the wall, but, uh, you know, they were all on the floor, books everywhere and things smashed. And, you know, all the support group. Um, because we had, uh, like dinner sets and things like that for lunches and that, and that was all that was all gone. Um, cupboards had come open, and things are just falling out. Um, so that was the main damage. [00:38:00] I mean, there was damage to the around the ran the, um where the walls meet the ceiling, They all cracked, and, um, plaster was falling off and things like that, uh, windows broke or cracked, I should say, um, fireplaces moved like cast iron fireplace and started walking out into the room. Um, yeah. Other than that, um, that was that was well, then. I mean, we had no power [00:38:30] and no sewerage and no water. So So this one was far worse. And so, um, to get water, I had enough in the in the tank that would slowly come out of the tap. So there was a little bit in there that I could access, and then that dried up. So a news came through that you could actually get water just around the corner at because there were cordons around the inner city [00:39:00] and at each of the streets, they had water bottles, um, big stacks of water bottles that you could just go and help yourself. So I went around and got some of those and, um, that must have taken a while to actually put in place, though. No, it was very quick. Yeah, it was, um, the next day. Yeah, it was all that was there. In fact, it was early morning that I went around and got all that. So they've been very fast in getting that [00:39:30] service there. Um, there was certainly no sewage, so you couldn't use the toilets? Um, well, there's no water, so you couldn't flush the toilet. So you had to, uh, rig up, um, toilets outside and things like that. Um, because there were no portals and chemical toilets and all that. They didn't arrive until well weeks after. And the water wasn't [00:40:00] put on for a couple of days, I think. But we were fortunate where we were and that they the water and sewerage came on quite quickly. And although you had to boil the water for drinking and sewage, um, what what started happening about a week afterwards was that you'd have these enormous trucks that would appear in the street at the end of the street, and they they'd be doing this sort of, [00:40:30] uh uh. I don't know what they did, but it was Either they were sucking the stuff out or they were pushing it along or something. But what? They were huge things and the noise was phenomenal and they did it every week, almost around us. And then they'd come to the the manhole outside the house, and then you had to go in with a brick and put it on the lid of the toilet. If you didn't as happened with us, you'd end up with shit and paper [00:41:00] and God knows what, all over the room, Because they'd blow something through it and to clear the pipes. And it was like, far out. You know, it's just like everything everywhere is like, What a nightmare. So and there's no warning that they'd be there, you know? It's like, Oh, so, um, so we got used to that. But, um, just taking you back to the the the time when the earthquake actually happened, how long did [00:41:30] it go for? It seems like forever. But, um, it wasn't I think it was less than a minute. I think it was. Yeah, it was less than a minute, but it felt like it was it was quite long, but it was, uh, there was the lead up that was sort of like a rolling thing. And then there's two jolts and, uh um And, of course, the It's not just the main earthquake, it's all the it goes on. [00:42:00] Um, the earthquake might only last for the actual earthquake. Might only last for a matter of seconds, but there seems to be it's it's like when you get off a plane and you sort of after a long trip and you feel like you're still moving. It has that sort of sensation, and I think it is actually the ground still moving, And, uh, but it's very it's quite strange. And, uh, and then, of course, you have all the aftershocks and [00:42:30] they start happening within minutes, and, um, and they can be as intense or not quite as intense, but intense enough. Was there any sound? Oh, yes, yeah, sort of rumbling. And, um and and like with the jolts it it's like a quite a powerful smack, um, sound or crack or whatever. Yeah, it was quite they were. It was quite an interesting, um, earthquake. Really? Yeah. [00:43:00] When that happens, I mean, I just kind of try to think what would be the first thing that I would do. You know what? How How would you prioritise? What? What did you do first. It was interesting because I got up because I thought I'd better go to the door, you know, because I've got an outside door in my room and I was heading towards that when I fell when I was thrown over, Um, and because everything had fallen around us in the house, [00:43:30] it was like, um and all of that happened in the middle of, you know? I mean, I was on the floor and I thought, far out the house is going to fall down, And, uh, because that's what it felt like. It did actually feel like the whole place was like, You know, um, gonna just take on a lean and go, you know, plenty of places did, um, around us, but so the first thing was that I'd heard all these things falling, so I got [00:44:00] up. And it's sort of like walking around in the days, Really, because you've got a adrenaline and it's like you're walking around, sort of like, uh, not knowing exactly really what you're doing. And so all I did was wander around and just survey what was going on or what had gone on. And, um, and and then walk around the property because there was no point in doing anything. So at that point, [00:44:30] uh, walk around the property and just check and see that everything was all right and then check on the people because there's elderly people next door, and, um and they were fine, and there were people on the road at that point, and they were also worried about them. Um, and I realised that they were worried about me because I'm I'm not old. I love it. So, um, it was quite interesting. So, [00:45:00] uh, it was one of my first experiences of being regarded by young people as being old. So it was quite interesting in a way, um, and it took a while to realise that, you know that what had happened, and I went back inside and started Well, I mean, the main thing was to get the books out of the way. And, uh, so it was just a matter of stacking them on the floor, really, where they'd fallen. And, um, just [00:45:30] to create places to walk and, you know, and clean up. And then I was aware of all the glass and crockery and stuff that had broken. And so that meant that I had to start cleaning up. And, um uh, because it was too dangerous and still get bits of glass and stuff in my foot If you walk around just occasionally. What about communications? Like, uh, could you access, like, radio, [00:46:00] phone, TV, telephone, telephone. Uh, landline was out. Oh, you just couldn't get through. I mean, um, it was engaged or, you know, whatever. Um, overloaded. Probably, uh, I could send texts occasionally, but even that was overloaded. Um, and occasionally one would get through, and that was that was great, because you knew that, you know, at least because you didn't know [00:46:30] what had happened around. So, you know, it was like when I drove out of out of our street. I mean, because at that point I went, I decided I'd go to to the airport to actually check up on my partner's mother and because he was over in Ood in his house and he wouldn't have been able to get there. So, um, so I started going [00:47:00] out, and I only got two blocks and the traffic was in chaos. The road was a complete mess, and with liquefaction, and that was coming up. And, um and the road was all sort of uneven. And, um and there were people directing traffic away from that area, and there was the There was chaos. And I thought, No, this is ridiculous. I'll just go back. And, um And so I was [00:47:30] aware that it was far worse around than our street. And, um and then news started coming in that people have been killed and stuff like that. So, um, I think I turned on the TV or something. I think that had come back on or something. So yes. So it was a It was a bit of a shock. Really? And what about making contact with the other members of the support group? Well, that was more difficult. Um, some of those people and the second one lost their [00:48:00] house. And, um, and I had no idea where they went. So you know that there were two people in that situation. Others, um, uh, one had to move out of her house, and, uh, and I had no way of contacting her because I only had her computer email at war. Um, landline. So that was that was gone. A few people, uh, I mean, I was able to get through to [00:48:30] a few people by email and by text, and they were fine. So yeah, and some took advantage of the Air New Zealand thing and went out of the city. So, uh, one person in particular who needed dressing for things on his legs. So he got on a plane and went to Auckland. And, um, side is that, but the majority of people survived. Very well. Um, [00:49:00] they had to. So, uh, yes, many of the people in the group, uh, used to go to doctors in the High Street Medical Centre. And, um, that whole area, of course, was destroyed. And, um, and for about three weeks, we had no idea where doctors were where those doctors were, and it was quite difficult [00:49:30] to get information about where they were going to be or where you know where where that set up was gonna be. Um, eventually, we we were able to find out, um, the hospital, the medications that seemed to be ok. Um, for most people. Um, because most of the pharmacies were intact, so they [00:50:00] didn't have too much of a problem. People accessing the hospital. Well, if they didn't have a car, then it was a lot. Well, in one sense, it was a lot harder. But in other senses, it was a lot easier because the one of the hubs for the buses was right outside the hospital, and there was a free bus that would go between the hubs. So it was actually a lot easier at that point And why they've changed it back to where they what they were doing. I have no idea. But, [00:50:30] um uh, the way that the emergency, um, scene that they had set up was great. It was a perfect sort of scene, really. Not even not only to access the hospital, but just to access the city. You know, just, uh, made complete sense. Driving was a pain, Uh, because you couldn't you had to go around and everyone had to go around. And so it was just this constant gridlock [00:51:00] going around and around the city. And if you had, uh, major aftershocks, then you know people, then you know those, uh, roads just I mean, it was a nightmare. It would take two or three hours to get home. And whereas it would only take 10 minutes ordinarily, But from what I hear, most people survived all of that. Quite well. Um, they access family and friends. Um, [00:51:30] I haven't heard of anyone that that that had a major experience, you know, a negative experience around it. You mentioned the high street doctors, and I'm thinking, if they couldn't give them into those practises, did that mean that the patient records had gone as well? I have no idea. I don't know how they well, mine are still there, so I don't know how they access. You can still access your records. So they've set up elsewhere, [00:52:00] You see, um, and he seems to have all the records. So how soon after that February earthquake did the group meet up again? I don't even know what day the February earthquake was. It was 22nd. So it was. It was so that would have been the a few days after the group met. So we wouldn't have met up again until the march, which was a good thing, really. Because I wouldn't have been able to get food and [00:52:30] things. Yeah, when you met, what was the mood like it was difficult because, um, the one person that we knew that had or one of the people that we knew who had lost his house and everything in it, so the whole thing had collapsed. Um, it was an old, um, an old house, uh, that he had renovated, um, over a number of years, and all those goods were so computer [00:53:00] and everything was gone. So, um, so those, I mean, and and then you started hearing the stories of the others of what had been happening with the others as well. So everyone had a story about something that had happened. And it was important just to, you know, allow that discussion to happen. Really? And so for the next two or three months, and really that was the focus of [00:53:30] the meetings, was just talking about what was happening. And it still comes up occasionally, but not so much now. Seems to have seems to have settled down along with the along with the the earth. As the months move on, does the psychology of living in a city where things have been broken or people have died? Does that have an impact through, Do you? Do you find there's a higher level [00:54:00] of stress or other kind of emotions that are coming through? I'm not sure about whether it's the psychology of of being in a city where people have died. I think it's, uh, I think it's, um, being in a city that's now unstable whereas we thought it was staple. So it's that unknown thing. So, like, I noticed that there are this building creaks a lot. So [00:54:30] and when people walk next door, it seems to sort of shake a little bit. And those sort of things are interesting to me. Um, I find that I react to those, Um uh, when I was in Wellington, I was horrified walking around your city absolutely horrified. Nothing Far out that anyone that would walk around this place needs the, um [00:55:00] and, uh, here, Um, the thing I've noticed for myself is is mainly driving. So, um, you have to know where you're going. The roads are appalling. In places, there are always new road works. And so sometimes you've got detours and all sorts of things that just appear out of, you know, one day gone the next. [00:55:30] But you also have people that I keep joking that the new speed limit in Christchurch is 10 kilometres less than what it should be. And, um so people seem to go 10 whenever there's a road code. They seem to reduce the speed down 10 kilometres whenever there's a orange cone on the road. Wherever, whether there's a sign or [00:56:00] not, and occasionally you'll get elderly people who are driving and of course for them. Their city has changed completely and you know the landmarks have gone and so they have no idea where they're going and um and so they're driving. They're driving is sort of spontaneous. So they come to a corner and they need to turn left because they've just realised that if they don't turn left here, they will never get you know to [00:56:30] where they want to go and and so that sort of it's like, well, or they're going along at 30 kilometres an hour trying to find where they're meant to go and stuff like that when you're rushing or needing to get somewhere or know the road very well. Um then it gets really, you know, gets tiresome to have to put up with that, um and it's the only the elderly I can appreciate. [00:57:00] And usually, once I find out that that's sort of dissipates. But it's the people who aren't old, who are just and, um, or rubber Neckers and that part of it I. I just find myself getting quite irritated. And, um um, and people do some really strange things when they get irritated. And I've seen myself doing it as well. And, um, like passing in really strange places [00:57:30] and and, you know, tooting horns and things like that. And, um so yeah, so I've noticed that. So there's a lot more irritability, and, um, the other thing is, is people that haven't been through the earthquakes, Um, who live here coming back. And I've had the experience now of being in every earthquake that's happened here. And, um, [00:58:00] and after every one of them, I've had people arrive back who haven't been in them. And then there's this incessant talking about this and that and all the rest and and when there's an earthquake, it's an aftershock. It's like, you know, it's it's like this whole thing, you know, and and then there's this. They launch off into this further dialogue of, you know, this, that and all the rest. And about that [00:58:30] aftershock. And it's like, Oh, it's just an aftershock. Come on, you know, and, uh and it gets I appreciate it, but it gets quite tiresome, you know, and, um, especially when it's the same people who keep coming back. And they seem to have come back after every earthquake and have never been in any of them. And, uh and I mean, the houses are right off and things like that, but it's just like, Oh, please, [00:59:00] it it just gets I mean, I find myself getting tired of that, really. And, um, I don't know. There's only so much you can say about it. Yeah, after having said all that, What What about within the, um, peer support group? Has the dynamic changed? Is we now? What? A year and a bit after the second big earthquake. The dynamic has changed is that, um what started happening was that people [00:59:30] started doing the dishes cleaning up after them. There seemed to be a lot more sort of, um, concern for what people were going through, um, willingness to listen to what was going on, um, as well as irritability. And, um so there is that as well. But overall, there seems to be a sort of a yeah, [01:00:00] more of concern, I think for each other. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. But there seems to be a difference, and I don't know what it is. But there is a difference, I think because most of them lived through all of these earthquakes. So you know, and and it does seem to be something. And people that, um, have lived through them. It seems to be an unspoken bond or something that occurs [01:00:30] there. And you don't actually have to say very much. And, uh, it's just you just get on and live life really and interact with each other. But it's on a different level. It's on a different scenario. I don't quite understand that, but yeah, I think it it must be something like being in the peer support group for people with HIV you because you've got a commonality. So, uh, a common shared [01:01:00] experience. And, um, I don't quite understand. So yes, Um, one of the things that I mean I don't use the venues the gay venues in, um, in Christchurch. But, um, certainly friends of mine do, And certainly people at the in the group do. And, um, So there was this a period of, uh, not [01:01:30] having any sort of, um, venues. Really, Uh, where they could meet. And so it it really brings up sort of questions around sex on site menus and things like that. And so where do you What do you do at that point in time? You know, So it was sort of like going back 30 years, Um, because the bars are gone, and, uh, all the venues had gone so some of the all [01:02:00] the well, some of the beats were there, um, because they had closed as well. So all the public toilets that had been closed for months, And so the only one that actually still operated was the beach, the beaches. So So, fortunately, probably for many people, it was in the summer time. But, um, I think online dating probably accounted for more contacts, but I don't know, I [01:02:30] I don't know where people went or how they fulfilled that need, but certainly, um uh there has been, uh, there have been two now set up. And, uh, well, three, so cruise bar was, uh, set up again, And then after a further aftershock was closed because of the building next door, But it's now reopened the sauna and the two, well, the, um [01:03:00] the box. I think it was called, uh, the 61 avenue. Uh, they both closed, Um, because the buildings were in the inner city. Um, and I now see that Well, I've heard that the box and well, no, there's there was a new place that opened called the closet and set up by someone from Auckland. And, uh and that's the reports that I read of [01:03:30] that, um were less than favourable in a way because it seemed like it was set up on a shoe on a shoestring and that they were wanting people to go there and then with the money that they got, they would do further renovations. So it seemed like it was a constant thing of a building site in some ways, which may have had its own its own appeal. But, um, it's an interesting It's an interesting thing, [01:04:00] really, that these people that used to use these things that had to actually had to find other ways of meeting people.
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