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Hi. I'm El Kingsbury. I'm a member of, uh, Queer Activist group. Queer Endurance. Defiance. Uh, we are at a rally for trans rights outside the Michael Fowler Centre in Wellington. So speak up for women who are an anti trans campaign group are holding a meeting inside the Michael Fowler Centre. Um, it was our opinion as a group that there should be a positive show of support for trans rights. Um, [00:00:30] outside the building, in an entirely peaceful and positive way. Um, while that was going on. So that's what we're doing. Can you tell me a wee bit more about the kind of meeting that speak up for women are having around the country? Yes. Um, speak up. The woman has been touring the country over the last month and a half, uh, holding meetings in a series called Let's let's Talk About Self ID. This is in reference to the upcoming amendment to the BDMRR [00:01:00] bill, which is going to go through Parliament. Um, that amendment will make it slightly easier for trans people to, um, amend the sex marker on our birth certificates to make it accurate to our actual genders. Um, this is a minor positive reform which will make the lives of trans people um, just just slightly easier. Um, but it's also quite a powerful symbol of public support [00:01:30] and acceptance for trans. People speak up for women, um, are against this amendment. They claim that it will erode women's rights and allow men to invade women's spaces. This is not the case. The bill will not have any effect of that kind, basically, because birth certificates are not required for entry into women's spaces. Um, also, trans women have been in women's spaces for a long time, [00:02:00] and it's fine. What this is really about is whether trans people are a legitimate part of our society or not. We think, yes, and they think no. And that's why we're here. Can you describe, um, what we can see around us? We're We're outside the Michael Fowler Centre at the moment. Can you Can you just paint a picture for me? What you can see? Um, it is a rather cold, windy night. It isn't yet for which we are grateful. Um, people are that that very [00:02:30] warm. Uh, we are expecting well on the event page. Um, 550 people mark themselves as going, um, we probably won't get that many, but we are expecting a larger cloud as the night goes on. How does it make you feel personally, when you see so many people gather tonight in support of transgender and rainbow communities, it makes me very, very proud for the work that we have done. What we have achieved in this country. Um, [00:03:00] 20 years ago, we would not have seen anything like this in support for trans rights that we that we see this now. A cloud of people gathering in support of our rights, Um, greatly outnumbering the people, Um, who are likely to be attending the speak up for women event. This is the overact result of the work that trans people and activists have done over the last 20 years. And I am so grateful for that work. I'm proud to stand in their tradition. [00:03:30] My name is Ray Moana Taylor. And as I look around the Michael Fowler Centre, something which I didn't expect was over. 100 people are actually here in support of trans people. Um, we're not all trans people, but we are here to support what I consider a human rights issue. So so will you actually be going in tonight? Yes, I think it's really important that we [00:04:00] sit inside that We listen, and we really need to listen to what they're saying. But we also need to listen to what are the undercurrents of what are being said. And that's important. We are. Sometimes the most reasoned people can be very vicious underneath what they're saying. So I was listening to some say we are not anti trans. We think that people should, But you know, all sorts of things, which is another way of saying is, [00:04:30] Well, we don't mind you, but we don't want to see you. We don't want to have anything to do with you. Um, you're going to do this. You're going to, um, you know, take the rights of women away. Trans people call themselves trans people, you know, they, they they they're not afraid to do that. And I think this is what we have to look for, and we have to actually listen to other people's arguments as well. And that's what I hope to do tonight. Can you just cast your eye around the crowd and just describe for me what? What you can see. [00:05:00] Well, it's a hugely diverse group of people with flags and signs supporting trans rights saying Trans women are women. Indigenous genders are real, a range of people, a range of ages, a range of sexualities and orientations, a range of ethnic backgrounds. It's really quite an extraordinary gathering. In a way. We thought when we were starting this, [00:05:30] that we would get 40 people or something. And there's what III I think 400 people here, something like that. Now, um, it's much more than we expected, and it really hasn't started yet, So we'll see what happens now. Bill, you've been an activist for decades and decades. How? How does this rally compare to something, say, 20 or 30 years ago? Well, in some ways, it's incredibly similar. Um, if [00:06:00] we if we leave aside, the the the the noise, the the the the um, the people who come in who are incidental to the situation. Uh, what you have is a group of people inside who are very scared, who think that the world as they know it is going to come to an end because people could change their sex on their birth certificate. Uh, And who, uh, on the one hand, say they love trans people and on the other hand, say pretty nasty things about [00:06:30] trans people. It's incredibly reminiscent of the people inside the meetings during homosexual law reform in 1985 86. Uh, or, uh, where where you had sweetness and light on the one hand and venom and nastiness on the other. Uh, and when If you, uh, went to lobby someone who is opposed to the bill, they'd say, Oh, we're so sorry for you. Uh, and yet they'd continue their opposition. And that's what we've got inside and outside. We've got a diverse [00:07:00] group of people who simply are standing for, for for the freedom, to have the expression that you want to have. This actually comes just a week or so after the 35th anniversary of of homosexual law reform. Um, can you see any kind of commonalities or similarities between the two? Yeah, I mean it. It's it's it's It's strangely similar in a way, and I'm surprised that [00:07:30] we we we've come such a short distance in a way that you would have thought that the ideas which were pretty well entrenched in 1985 86 in relation to homosexuality didn't transfer to the cases of of trans transgenderism, and I'm surprised that there hasn't been more movement on that question. But no change [00:08:00] is complicated. And this one's complicated, too. So what do you think will come out of tonight? I don't think that you get a huge change out of any single demonstration. Uh, but one thing has happened, and that is that people will see that decent, normal people are are, um, are offended, actually, [00:08:30] by attempts to discriminate officially against a category of people. And just that visibility is is hugely important. I think that we're going to have some speakers, some trans speakers shortly, and that will help show the reality of of transsexualism to people. Uh, and it will will make it less fearful, I think, because there is a lot of fear involved [00:09:00] for for people in the rest of the country that can't be here tonight for rainbow communities, transgender communities. Do you have any, um, thoughts or words for for them? Well, let's hope that similar events happen around the country as necessary. Um, I think that the people who are organising the meeting inside here are organising in a variety of places around the country. I think that our reaction to that has been a useful reaction. And if other people can react [00:09:30] to it in the way that they think is best in their own localities, that would be helpful. I'm a Wellington city councillor, and I'm here down at the Michael Fowler Centre with, I think, maybe over 1000 Wellingtons who have come out to express their support for the rights of transgender Wellingtons and transgender people all around the world. And it's so heartening and wonderful to see this crowd. Can you describe the mood? Look, the mood is one of celebration of inclusion, and I [00:10:00] think you can see that from the signs. Trans rights are human rights. Indigenous genders are real. Trans women are women. Um, there's there's just so many different signs all around the place, which all have a consistent message of inclusion and love for our transgender communities. So we're in the car park of the Michael Fowler Centre and, uh, speak up for women is actually holding their their event in the Michael Fowler Centre tonight. Um, was there any kind of issues with them being on council property during this meeting? No. Personally, I was a bit disappointed that they were able [00:10:30] to use a public venue, uh, for their meeting. But what we've done is light up the Michael Fowler Centre and the colours of the transgender flag. And I think that sends a message to them. But also a message to all Wellingtons that this city is an inclusive city where everybody is welcome and everybody is able and loved for being themselves. Perhaps if you could just, um, describe some of the, um, signs and flags that you can see. Yeah. There's some beautiful signs out here we've got, uh I love [00:11:00] my son. Trans rights, human rights. Trans women are women. Get over it. Uh, hearts, not parts. Oh, that's particularly beautiful. Uh, all feminists support all women. Go woman. Yes. To BDMRR, which is, uh, legislation the government's putting through. Uh, there's so many no turfs on our turf. Trans liberation now love all our sisters. Not only our sisters. It's pretty cool. What's happening now? We're all walking over, [00:11:30] and I think there's gonna be some speeches, and, um, there's a great mood here. People are really keen to hear from others. I can tell we are queer endurance in defiance. And we thank you all so much for coming out today. [00:12:00] Even those of you who are not out yet. We are gathered together in the cold like this because some people inside that building do not want us to exist. They do not like the fact [00:12:30] they do not like the fact. And yes, it is a fact and not just a feeling that trans women are women. The trans men are men, and the non binary genders are valid. [00:13:00] So they're having a little meeting to complain about our existence. Our first speaker, Kate Power, will call out their lives. Now they say they are the feminist, the one women's rights. They say they are the feminists. While they reduce womanhood to a collection of body parts, they [00:13:30] say they are the feminists. While they reduce womanhood to the ability to carry Children, they say they are the feminists, while they apply more metaphysical significance to the Penis, a tube of flesh of blood than patriarchy ever could. They say they are the feminists. While they mock trans women to their height, broad shoulders or facial hair as a sis, women with similar features aren't listening. They say they are the feminists, while stoking a climate of fear [00:14:00] and where every woman sis or trans, whose appearance does not fit within a standard of stereotypical femaleness will be harassed, assaulted or had the cops called on them just for using the bathroom or participating in sports. They say they are the feminists. While they tell lesbians they are not lesbians simply because they love trans women, they say they are the feminists, or they cosy up to national and act. Or they gain support from family first [00:14:30] and right wing conspiracy groups. They say they are the feminists, or they dedicate every ounce of their political energy to misunderstanding, misrepresenting and antagonising trans people. They continue to do this all. While the fight for free and accessible abortion raged on in the background, most of our members marched for the right to abortion. Some of our members helped organise a rally, and all Annie O'Brien did was stay home and handing over the inclusive language [00:15:00] the rally used, they said, absolutely silent while nurses 91% of whom are women, strike for livable pay and working conditions. Yet they have more than enough time to write article after article, painting Trans women as violent, deluded, intrusive men. Yeah, every Trans woman I know has stories of having lewd comments shouted at us from passing cars of being cat called in the streets. We've [00:15:30] seen men go from nice to hostile as soon as we rebuff their advances. We've had our perspectives and skills dismissed by men who assume they know more than us. I've heard many more stories, too upsetting and personal for me to feel comfortable sharing on a public stage. But time and time again, statistics show that trans women are the ones being abused, not the other way around. When we say we are women, it is not simply a matter of feelings. For many of us, it is an inescapable political and material reality. Yeah, [00:16:00] many who would call themselves feminists would sooner send us alone into male spaces than simply address our own discomfort with our presence and women's spaces. Patriarchy functions in a two pronged attack. Yes, it seeks to assert men and masculinity is inherently superior just to check. Can everyone hear me? No. In the back, The [00:16:30] people in the back. What's your opinion on that? Sorry about that. Um there's a suggestion that maybe people towards the front could repeat what I'm saying. Back to people in the back. Um, I can take a pause between lines. Alright? Yeah. Patriarchy functions in a two pronged attack. [00:17:00] Yes, that seeks to assert men and masculinity is inherently superior to women and femininity. OK, maybe the speech is too complicated, you know, But it also seeks to other men and women from each other. Big job painting, man and woman is separate, mutually exclusive categories. [00:17:30] Usually sorry. Each possessing a unique set of categories with absolutely no overlap of trans women sit at the intersection of this patriarchal oppression. Too feminine to be respected by men [00:18:00] and two sis to be accepted by anyone and to be accepted by anyone. We'd be arrested for having our titties out at the beach and throwing in with the men for processing. We'd be sexually harassed by men they attacked if they suspect [00:18:30] we have a different set of genitals than they were expecting. The tradition of trans feminism is long and storied and vital and speak up for women's ideas, aren't you? Speak up. I have personally grappled with every question or concern they could tout [00:19:00] and found it extremely easy to fit my own identity and existence into my feminist world. View is my home. Sorry. These are long sentences. Sometimes I do not need permission from the ideological rejects of the second wave to exist [00:19:30] safely and freely say it was. I will not be told that I do not have the perspective to recognise a hate group when I see one. I have been Kate Power. Thank you very much. [00:20:00] Yo, yo, how are you all enjoying being a human microphone? My name is Tristan Cordelia, and I am a trans woman. The anti trans mob meeting inside that building wants [00:20:30] you to believe that trans women are just men pretending to be women so that we can commit crimes. They call us sex offenders merely for having the audacity to assert our identity. Then play the victim. When we point out that that is hate speech, they tell us that we are really men who just think we can choose to be women when it suits us. [00:21:00] But here's the thing. I am proud to be Trans. I am proud to be a part of this beautiful community. But I did not choose to be Trans, and I sure as hell did not want to be Trans. [00:21:30] I grew up being told I was a boy and I wanted more than anything to be a man. I did a lot of dumb stuff to try and prove that I was really a man. Men have a lot more freedom to do dumb, fun stuff than women. They can walk home after midnight. They can hitchhike, they can go partying without getting groped, they get jobs easier and those jobs pay better. So why would I want to be a woman? I never [00:22:00] wanted to be a woman, but after years of trying and failing to be a man, I had to make a choice. Either kill myself or upset that I am a trans woman and face the consequences of living in a society that despises transom that hates trans women. [00:22:30] This was not a choice. It wasn't something I wanted to do. But even though it sucks, sometimes I am proud to be who I am. I didn't choose to be Trans, but I did choose life and [00:23:00] I will not let you take that life away. I am here today to assert our right to exist. The anti trans mob will tell you that we believe there is no difference between trans women and sis woman or trans men and sis men, and that we are trying to anyone who thinks [00:23:30] otherwise. But this is nonsense. Of course, there is a difference between trans women and sis woman. The point is, we're different. But we are both women. Yeah, I have to spend a ridiculous amount of my income on clothes, haircuts and makeup just like any other woman. [00:24:00] And yeah, I have an unexpectedly deep voice. So sorry for not being the perfect fifties housewife, but I get groped in clubs just like other women. I have to worry about being followed home at night. Just like other women. I get called a bitch if I won't sleep with a guy and a slut. If I do, just like any other woman, the anti trans [00:24:30] mob will tell you that I still can't be a woman because I don't have a worm and I can't carry babies. But if they really believe that, then they also believe that any woman who has had to have a hysterectomy is also therefore not a woman. That any woman who cannot conceive is therefore not a woman, no matter how many tears she has cried over the matter. They call themselves feminists but deny the womanhood of any woman who can't give birth. And I think that's fucked up. [00:25:00] Yeah, My friend John is now going to speak about the reason we're here tonight. Hey, everyone, can can you all hear me? OK, Nice. Uh, so thank you all for coming out tonight. Um, my name [00:25:30] is John, and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the particular thing that's making turfs mad right now. The BDMRR bill and also about collective struggle and how we're stronger together. BMRR, as you probably already know, stands for births, deaths, marriages and relationships. Registration. This is an old act that regulates the ways births, deaths and marriages are [00:26:00] recorded in New Zealand. And, yes, this is the boring speech. I'm very sorry. Bill is currently before parliament that will update certain aspects of this bill. To hear turfs tell it, this update represents some kind of dangerous social experiment that threatens to unravel the fabric of New Zealand society. But what does it actually do? The honest answer is not much. [00:26:30] The reforms in the bill will make it easier for a person to change their sex as listed on their birth certificate, to accord with their gender. They replace the onerous need to apply to the family court with a simple self declaration, remove medical gatekeeping and add options for non binary markers to birth certificates. [00:27:00] This this process already exists for updating one's gender on passports and driver's licences. The bill merely extends it to birth certificates. This is a minor reform, but it is an important one because it has symbolic weight. It represents a greater acceptance of gender minorities by wider society. Passing the [00:27:30] bill, allowing self ID will not end society as we know it, or even much change it. Things will carry on almost exactly as before, with the one exception that Trans people will find it slightly easier to live as themselves. Don't think it really talk, [00:28:00] and the more that state continues the more people will realise that trans people aren't an existential threat to them and the more accepted trans people will be. So if its chief value is symbolic, why do turfs hate it so much? It has nothing to do with the arguments they make On paper. The bill has nothing to do with bathroom access or sports because birth certificates have nothing to do with those things, either. When was the last time anyone ever asked [00:28:30] you for a birth certificate when you went to the bathroom? Don't want the bill passed because of what it represents. A small step towards making trans people feel more able to be themselves without fear of Reprisal. Want people to feel hated and be invisible. [00:29:00] They want the public to fear trans people, but they also want trans people to fear the public to be afraid of showing their true faces. Turfs want the public convinced that a tiny and very vulnerable minority represent an existential threat to women, to kids, to gays and lesbians, to gender, non conforming S people to free speech, science, democracy, art, truth, [00:29:30] anything and everything and every one. The more people believe that the harder it will be for trans people to live in the public sphere, the more they'll be forced back into the closet, which is the ultimate aim of Transphobia, in the words of Janice Raymond, one of the earliest turfs morally mandating us out of existence. The BDMRRBDMRR bill's passage. Sorry, it's a lot of letters at once. Um [00:30:00] will represent a blow to this vision, not because the changes it contains are radical, but because life will carry on as normal once it passes, as it has in Argentina, Ireland, Belgium and all the other countries where self ID is already law. As trans people become more and more visible and more secure and assertive in their rights, the power of turfs will diminish. Indeed, building solidarity between [00:30:30] trans people and other oppressed groups is a gateway to winning further struggles and securing further rights. Yeah, of crap, if you say so. But in Argentina, where self ID has been law since 2012, a coalition [00:31:00] comprising feminists, trans rights groups and workers organisations right, [00:31:30] my friends, my friends, right. [00:32:00] Thank you. Sorry about that. Ok, so I have good news for you. That heckler was wrong in Argentina as I was saying, Self ID has been law since 2012 [00:32:30] and a coalition of feminists, trans rights groups and workers organisations have been working together throughout the past couple of years to pressure the government into passing landmark abortion laws. Historic in South America, which puts the lie to turf claims that trans rights and women's rights are in conflict and demonstrates that solidarity between marginalised groups and the working class is a force that can reshape. [00:33:00] We should reject the claims of Turfs and others like them that rights are a zero sum game and more rights for one group will somehow diminish the rights of another. It's important that gender, minorities and our allies stand together, make our voices heard and fight against transphobia in our own [00:33:30] name. And it's just as important that we link arms with other oppressed groups women, Maori, migrants, workers. Today we are fighting for the right to self ID. Tomorrow it might be to up the refugee quota or to restore workers' rights to strike or to expand support for women of victims of domestic violence. [00:34:00] We have a collective struggle to wage and we are stronger together. Thank you. Yo, yo, you're all amazing. You're all beautiful and you're all valid. [00:34:30] We just have to pause for a second and ask everyone at the back to move forward a little to get a car through while we are moving this vehicle. My friend Ben is going to speak further about the history of these protests. Oh, it's amazing to see the biggest demonstration that there has been in Wellington for a very long time. [00:35:00] I thank the organisers of this demonstration for inviting me to speak. Invited me to speak, I think, as a representative of the struggle of 1985 86 it was an extremely similar struggle. In many, many ways. There were so many meetings, small groups of afraid, people [00:35:30] saying vile things but occasionally also saying, Oh, we love you, we pity you and then going back to saying they're vile things. There were many, many meetings like that in 1985 86 and they were outside those meetings. Gatherings like this gatherings that represented a huge diversity of ordinary New Zealanders of [00:36:00] every type of every gender of every sexuality. Demonstrations like this represent justice, and they represent the future and they represent better lives for our people. [00:36:30] We've got one more speaker and then we'll have a little music afterwards. We're going to make the music ourselves. Because we were bad bitches and Blue Owl Speaker. Um, Blue Owl Amber, our final speaker tonight is the amazing Sarah. [00:37:00] Whoa! So many of you. This is so cool. You've heard from a lot of great speakers You've heard about trans awesomeness. You've heard about turfs and where their hate leads. You've heard about the be lots of leaders MD, R a bell that will make our lives easier. You've heard about other reasons for action and other people willing to take that action. Meanwhile, in that building, trans [00:37:30] exclusionary people are trying to do trans exclusionary things. You've even seen them coming out here trying to exclude us in our own space. Those people are wrong. Those who fear trans people are wrong In their analysis of us, we are a threat, Sure, but we're a We're a threat to archaic social structures and to the ruling classes, [00:38:00] not to our fellow working class. Those who exclude trans people are wrong in their actions and we hope they'll realise this someday and come and stand beside us. Those [00:38:30] who deny our rights are wrong. Human rights are not things that come at the expense of each other. Trans rights do not exclude women's rights as the claim. Trans rights and women's rights are generally the same thing. If you need to distinguish if you need to distinguish transwomen and sis women when talking about rights, then we can say that both groups rights are complimentary [00:39:00] of one another. They go together. We are We are not trying to take rights away from others and others shouldn't try and take rights away from us. I'm a member of the International Socialist Organisation and I don't think [00:39:30] I'm alone, judging from the enthusiasm in this crowd, when I say that we stand in solidarity with other working class struggles for their rights too. So, for example, just today, two comrades protecting on Waiheke Island were arrested. They are [00:40:00] they are standing up for the environment. They are standing up for local iwi who have not given permission for a new marina to be built in Wellington Stand and Shelley Bay and we stand with them also you proud this cops [00:40:30] we like we summoned them. Here it goes J to get back to human rights. Our rights are human rights our right not to just exist but to live to thrive alongside our comrades in society not sidelined by it. Trans rights are human rights. Let me hear you say it. Trans rights! [00:41:00] Strange treasure 20. Yes, I'm nearly done. I promise. This rally was organised by a new activist group [00:41:30] Queer Endurance Defiance. I I'm proud to be part of that group. If you'd like to join us in our organising, come speak with us or message us on Facebook. You know where to find us. Queer endurance, defiance, but also the term queer endurance Defiance shouldn't just be the name of a group. It's us, all of us. It's what we're doing right now. It describes who we are queer because we're different. We're proud of that difference. [00:42:00] We're not afraid to be different. Sure, we feel fear sometimes, but we are not defined by that fear we face. We face down that opposition proudly proud in our identities, proud of our authenticity, proud that we love who we love proud We love how we love Proud of how much We love [00:42:30] endurance because we won't be worn down. We won't be swept under the rug. We won't be forgotten. We won't be erased from history. We have endured. We are still here. We continue to endure, despite turf attempts to erase us. [00:43:00] And then the last defiance. Because we stand strong together. We are doing that right [00:43:30] now. We're not just going to weather the storm. We're going to face it. We're here to protect our queer. We'll stand up to protect gay men. Lesbian women, trans binary and non-binary intersects everyone. We love you. We love each other. We all stand together and we protect our community. Queer Endurance. Defiance. [00:44:00] OK, no. We're gonna mash up an old protest song with a dance floor banger Who [00:44:30] wants to be a bass? Who wants to be some Trevor And who wants to be vocals? Alright, Bass, You're gonna play some trace. We want you to go. Duff Duff, Duff Duff! Come on! And da da da Done! Da da da da da Locals We [00:45:00] shall We shall overcome. Yeah, we shall. We shall overcome. Come da da da da We shall We shall overcome shall we shall [00:45:30] overcome you said You. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Who? [00:46:00] Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Non-binary genders are valid. Trans rights are human rights. I got your back. [00:46:30] You are all beautiful. You are all amazing. You are all valid and I love every single one of you. We're queer. Endurance and defiance. We fucked up our sound system. [00:47:00] Thank you for putting back up with our feedback. Thank you for helping protect the turf who attacked us. They may want to get violent with us, but we will still shelter them because that's how we fuck. I run out of words. I'm just staring [00:47:30] out at your faces. You're all amazing. You want to take this energy and make our lives better? Make the lives better for every single trans person who's felt that they were living in a world that hated them too much to be themselves. We want to live in a world where you don't have to face down the knife that you're holding to your wrist because you don't think you can be yourselves [00:48:00] a world where you don't get kicked out of your home for telling your parents who you really are. I love every single one of you. And I wish that you can all live your true Selves. No matter what anyone says, we lift one another up will be free. Shall we shall overcome. [00:48:30] Shall we shall overcome. We shall. We shall overcome because we're beautiful and we're doing it. But yeah, transmit the human rights and we're getting them now. Look after one another tonight. [00:49:00] Keep each other safe on the way home and party like crazy this weekend because you deserve it. You've all been amazing tonight. I love you all. Here we are. So my name is Selena Pea. And, um, what we're witnessing right now is the the [00:49:30] the positive protest. Um, for anti trans groups, um, and particularly turfs And we're actually set by the our new generation and, um, a range of different leaders throughout the entire community, including our own allies as well. Can you describe tonight's crowd? Tonight's crowd is very, very energetic. It's a very young crowd, but it's a very it's [00:50:00] It's a crowd that is extremely that is extremely driven. So they're driven to listen. They're driven to actually speak, and they're also driven to, um to work towards a better, a better solution and better legacy. Actually, how many people do you think are here tonight? 1500. Maybe more. So, um, it looks like it's a whole lot of people. It's huge. And And can you describe the, um, the atmosphere? [00:50:30] Uh, the atmosphere is it's quite invigorating. It's quite exciting. Um, and it's exciting because everybody that has come out of the out of the woodwork have all been you. And they're all using their social media networks to actually, um, spread the word and spread the the of the So, um so yes. Yeah, that's why everybody's here. Why was it important [00:51:00] for you to be here tonight? Um, well, it's It's extremely important for me. Firstly, I'm a, um Firstly, I'm Maori and and I'm an actually, and I'm a full time living trans woman. So it is important for me to be here and for me to firstly represent please. As you can tell, um, Firstly, to represent all, um my and who have gone before me? Carmen. Um, the late Jennifer [00:51:30] Edwards. All the all the sisterhood, all the Maori sisterhood throughout the country. This is the reason why I'm here. They have fought, and they have also stood to to be a part of things like this. It's a very important it's really important. What would you say to to, uh, people that couldn't be here tonight but would want to be here? I'd probably say, Firstly, this is the place to be, um this is the place to share. This is the place to support. This [00:52:00] is the place to be. And this is the place. Uh, this is the place to unite, and most of all, have a united front to these sorts of issues to these sorts of I'm Erin called. Um, the atmosphere is amazing. I love to see my trans supported, and I hate her. So it's amazing. Um, I'm Dylan, and the love here is really strong. There's a lot of people [00:52:30] I don't even know if you can hear me, but it's crazy. Um, the atmosphere is amazing. I'm I'm here to support my trans and, um, just make it clear that wellingtons, you know, don't put up with transphobia. Can you describe the signs you're holding? Yeah, mine's a double sided sign and it says, Stop listening to trans phobes and start listening to trans people. Um, and that's from an instagram called Girl of Swords. And then on the other [00:53:00] side, it says I will not tolerate your intolerance. Our oppressions carry the same roots. Uh, so my side says Transphobia, is the only threat because it is mine. Says yes to BDMRR. Can you describe what it has been like being in this crowd tonight? Ah, it's it's crazy. I think I'm gonna lose my voice because I been screaming and one of the turfs came out and it was like a whole thing. So it's amazing, really. [00:53:30] I just feel so much out of. I feel a lot of so much support from everyone. It's like a big, warm mental emotional hug. It's wonderful seeing such a great turn out really, really fantastic turnout of people who, um, are showing support. Yeah, So why was it important for you to be here today? Well, it affects me. I'm a trans person, and, uh, my mum's a very transphobic. So this is just a big fuck you to her. If you need to bleep that, that's [00:54:00] fine. But you know, metaphorical and literal. Fuck you. Uh, so it's important for me to be here tonight to support all the trans community as well as myself. Be trans male by everyone who is or as an out they know that we're here and the love is stronger than the hate and we have their back. For me, it was really important to show my support as a CIS gender parent of, um, you know, trans, uh, a trans child [00:54:30] and to just really show support for the many ways that people can live their best lives. If somebody couldn't be here tonight but really wanted to be, what would be what would be your message to them? That you're loved and that there's people who support you and will always fight for your rights, that we still see you? And regardless, if you're here or not, you're still here in our hearts. My message would be around the importance of the legislation and doing [00:55:00] whatever you can to show support for that in a small or big way, whatever you're comfortable with. So whether that's going on to the gender minorities Facebook page and liking the Facebook page or writing to your local politicians to express your support. But get in there and be political at whatever level you're comfortable with. Yeah, it's It's a great turnout. I. I love the diversity. The age difference. Uh, looking at how many walked [00:55:30] in there weren't that many, uh, walked into the, um, into the, uh What do we call it? Sneaked in? Well, I in and had a little look and see how many were there. Not that many, if any. But you know, it's it's interesting. This is the wave that's coming, that these people upstairs, uh, need to get their head around. It's been so noisy out here. I'm I'm losing my voice. But what can you tell me about the atmosphere inside? Um, it was very cold. I walked up. There was TV New Zealand at the top. I took some shots for footage of of, um, the rally [00:56:00] down below a huge a big turnout, huge turnout. And then down in the background, you've got, um, a speak out for women, and I don't know how many they are not not that many, All sitting very solemn. Um, they were watching a little bit of a do about Tracy Martin and the marriages and what's going on. And then the Then the speaker started it. It was quite sombre. I thought so. Um, yeah, a lot of a lot of older women in the room. A few few males, few men as opposed to what's been happening out here. Can [00:56:30] you describe what it's been like? Oh, I just think it's been an incredibly uplifting kind of experience. And we're hearing, um, trans voices are being uplifted. Uh, we're hearing what life is like for trans women, especially, um, through this process, because speak up for women they seem to be targeting, especially trans women and their kind of vitriol. So it's really, really nice to hear Trans Woman being uplifted, Um, and to just [00:57:00] be in support of them. Yeah. Yeah, and the and the and the Rainbow Community wrapping around, um, Trans, the trans community. Um, I. I just love what's happened tonight. Uh, the call is gone now. The weather's not that flash. I love it. The, uh, the goddess of weather or gods of weather opened up just as ours is finished. So, um, yeah, that's that's, you know, that's how it's meant to be, isn't it? How how does this compare to homosexual law reform? back in the eighties. So the same. [00:57:30] It's the same, but so totally different, you know, like I was around at that time. So I remember the all of the arguments that just like we're 50 years back where where we were with trans rights as where we were with queer rights 50 years ago, we've got, um you know, the the fear was that if we legalise homosexuality that we'll release all these predators and, um, they'll they'll, like, predate on our Children and they [00:58:00] will rape, and they will be really awful. And that's exactly what they're saying about trans folks now. And it's ridiculous. Yeah. How have you found it, Gareth? I've lost my voice. So funny. Must boys. This is what it's about. It's joyful, absolutely joyful expression. That's what it is. [00:58:30] Phil did this spring back memories. Oh, yeah. Um, it was a great night and, uh, the party atmosphere that we've got now, with people dancing and singing and so on, really rather wonderful. There's a sense here that we're not going to be stopped. And that's always nice to see. There's a a fantastic mix of both young and older activists here and It must just be really heartwarming to see these [00:59:00] new generations coming through. I mean it. It's disappointing that a few of the activists from the old days have, uh, gone across to a sort of transphobic position. Uh, but it's actually a rather small proportion of them. Uh, and if you think of the thousands of people in New Zealand who were involved in those earlier struggles, and I doubt that they'll get us a couple of score in New Zealand as a whole, uh, for that politics now, So it's [00:59:30] it's, uh, it really is quite, uh, heartwarming to see this gathering of people from different generations and different, different political traditions. And [01:00:00] that's right, man. Right. Nice. Right, right, right, right, right, right, [01:00:30] right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. My name is Tristan Cordelia. I'm a Wellington Trans woman. I was seeing the event tonight. Um, I'm feeling just, you know, amped up. I guess [01:01:00] I was feeling very nervous before the event. A little worried how it would go. I blew up the sound system before it even started, so we had to use a feedback in microphone. Uh, I didn't get to play the amazing playlist we had selected. Um, but every the crowd seemed to respond. Well, they were amazing. And now I just have all that energy, um, that we're gonna take over into the next things we're doing. Um, we're doing a public forum at Thistle Hall on the 26th of July. So that's we've just gotta feed into that. Um, yeah, I'm feeling good, though. I'm feeling like it went [01:01:30] well. Um, there was one moment where an anti trends campaigner tried to jump into the crowd. Um, got really rough rough with one of the wardens who was actually trying to protect her. Um, and I'm worried, knowing the way the anti trans campaigners do things that they'll try and spin it, Um, as if we were being roughed to them when it was the opposite. So I'm a little worried about that, and I'm disappointed that happens. But when you are going up against people who really, really hate you, then they are gonna try to do things like that. Um, other than that one incident and in [01:02:00] spite of the fact that we, like, messed up the sound system and had to just make things up on the fly. I feel like it went really well. The energy of the crowd was really good. Um, and I'm just seeing a lot of people who are living their lives, particularly mostly people who are younger than myself and who have have an understanding of what it means to be trans. Um, while they're still growing up, which is something that I really wish I had, which I didn't have. Um and so I just, like, am really feeling happy about people getting to be them through their true [01:02:30] Selves. That's what makes me really happy. Yeah, So that that's a I if somebody couldn't be here tonight, but really wanted to be here What? What would your message be to them? Um, don't be afraid to be yourself and support others who are struggling to be themselves. Lift each other up and care for one another. That well, I was at the stand up for women, um, meeting, um, organised in the Michael [01:03:00] Fowler Centre. And what what prompted you to go tonight? Because I'm a Marxist. So I am totally opposed to the oppression of any group of people. And I am opposed to people saying our rights are more important than you getting the same access to the same sorts of rights, although they're very smooth. They actually say we are for women are for Trans to have these rights, but they shouldn't [01:03:30] be the same as ours. So, yes, they should have space. But it's not a woman's space, even though they're a woman. So you went into the meeting as an opponent of the speak up for women tonight? Well, yes, I wanted to hear their arguments and, you know, it's a public meeting, but they limited. They were very careful and very shrewd. They said questions. Well, who's going to stand up there and just ask a question? You need to be able to speak to it As [01:04:00] soon as I started to speak. Dana Whitner knows me. She named me and she didn't want to ask me to speak. She tried to ignore me. Um, but as soon as I started to speak, you know, it was Shut down. Stop it. Can you describe what the atmosphere was like tonight? Well, the atmosphere was very, very middle class, very middle class professional women. A very articulate, [01:04:30] um, presenting right. Why? But they were absolutely not open to debate. Any debate now they did challenge. At the end, they challenged the woman. Beth Johnson said we challenged you to a debate. Well, yes, we were. What will you take away from tonight? Oh, that they're actually, um, very well healed. And they're very determined. [01:05:00] And they and our fight has got to be that we take them on on the issues that they've raised and defeat them. And that's going to have to mean that we've got to make sure our arguments are very clear, very strong and documented. Uh, I'm here because my sister Elle was heavily involved in organising this this event. And I wanted to support her because I knew that she was concerned about [01:05:30] how it would go. Can you describe, uh, the the feeling the crowd that was here tonight? I It was so positive and so, uh, so cohesive. You know, everyone was so together. I I was really positive place to be. Yeah, Look, I'm a straight middle aged white guy, and I just felt so happy to be here. I'm so glad I came out. Um I want these people to be my people. This is [01:06:00] the kind of crowd that I feel proud to have stood up with. So many more people came out than I'd been expecting. And it was great and really energetic crowd which dealt with its hecklers. Well, yeah, if somebody wanted to be here tonight, but couldn't be here tonight. W, what kind of words would you say to them? Um, your community stood up and gave fantastic representation. Sorry you couldn't be here, but people took care of it for you. Yeah, there was [01:06:30] a There was a great crowd, and it's pretty. You can come. You would have loved it, but there were. Yeah, people did it for you. So So what are you going to take away from tonight? Um, a sense that things are going ok and that the the Turks don't have that larger voice. Yeah, I'm gonna take away not only, uh, my beliefs that, [01:07:00] uh, what that trans rights are. Human rights is validated, but also that the crowd out here is much more fun than the crowd in there. Um, yeah. We need to normalise trans rights and queer rights. And also, um I'm really happy to be part of the struggle, and I kind of want to go to more events like this. And I feel kind of torn, because if we normalise these rights, we won't need to do this. And this was so much fun. [01:07:30] I'm here beneath the Michael Ler Centre and I can see a group of, uh, many diverse people of the community some trans flags and, um, other flags and and cards and things. Yes, And you, You yourself have got some flags as well. Yes, yes, yes, I do. Um, I, I am very trans friendly. I'm community friendly, Rainbow community friendly. Um, [01:08:00] I my daughter in law, is Trans, and I'm very proud of that. I work with a lot of trans folk in my work, and, um, I support it all. I'm an old feminist, inclusive of trans folk. So that's my stance, Really. That's why I'm here. Can you describe the feeling from tonight's event? I I'm actually amazed how many people there were, to be honest, um, before before the rain came and and before we finished? Um, [01:08:30] I. I don't know how many, but it was lovely to see a mix of people of genders, ethnicities, backgrounds, ages everything. I felt heartened by everything. It was very peaceful, great and very supportive. And the energy? There was so much energy here as well. I know. I know. It's lovely. Lots of young people. Um, I thought I'd better come and balance it out a little bit. With my age. I've got grey [01:09:00] hair. Um, and the energy is great. Very friendly, Very supportive. Very inclusive. I feel great about it. It's It's It's very uplifting. Yeah. Had you ever been to an event like this before? Uh, I'm an old activist from Europe, and, um, I haven't been on on events like for this purpose, but, uh, many, you know, peace events in in the seventies and eighties [01:09:30] and feminist events and all that. Yes. Yes. So if you had a message to, um, the stand up for women participants tonight in the Michael Fall Centre What? What would that be? Trans women are women. Totally. And I'm an old feminist, and I'm totally inclusive of trans all trans people. And I urge everybody who has been inside to think about that really hard, and it's a human [01:10:00] right for everybody.
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