This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
The exhibition, uh, came from a academic, uh, research project that I'm currently doing. And it's more about the perceptions of butch women and how they may have changed within society. So it's so realistically, what I tried to do is take photos of Butch woman in a more, uh, possibly hard or standoffish pose. And then, um, another one that's a little bit softer, showing the more, uh, relatable [00:00:30] side, um, and put them side by side in the exhibition, um, to see what the perceptions might be from the public. How many women did you have involved in these photos? There was 10, including myself. And the exhibition was up for how long? Uh, just over a month. Um, and so part of this was that I was going to do some, um, public perception study while the exhibition was up at, uh, the problem being was that it probably just hit [00:01:00] a slightly off target market at a museum. So, uh, people who were coming through were generally more receptive to artwork, and so the perception might have been a bit flawed. So, uh, so that part of the study is going to be, um, done separately now. So the exhibition was just something for itself. Maybe some visibility for Butch and so Well, well, the exhibition was up. What? What were the reactions you were getting to it. Most of the reactions were positive. Um, but they were from LGBT [00:01:30] Q I community. Mostly the the So the responses that I was getting was probably mostly from the LGBT Q I community and, um, the staff at as well, so they were positive. But again, probably not the responses that I was needing to find out which is more about the general General society views right? What? Why why are you doing that? So, um, it's something that I'm interested in, um, being butch myself. Um, I am really interested in how the perceptions may have changed. [00:02:00] I also know that, um, in society today, it is much easier for young women to transition. Um, and some participants that I have interviewed have mentioned about how Butch identity may become extinct in the near in the near future. And that really interests me. It interests me about how butch women see themselves and how the public see Butch woman as well. Um, and just the whole thing is just fascinating. And I think it was really worth the study to put [00:02:30] in to see, um if perceptions of in society are changing towards Butch woman identity. When you say changing what and what sort of time frame to talk? Yeah, So that's the interesting part. Because I haven't really gone back and had a look at what perception is, um has just been anecdotal. And the anecdotal is around. Um, you know, when I was growing up back in the seventies and eighties, um, and the word dike, Um, you know, the the diesel dyke, the butch dyke, the, [00:03:00] um you know, that sort of those sort of terms, those derogatory terms back then, um showed public perception of Butch Woman not as a positive thing. And quite a few of those terms are reclaimed. Reclaim terms. And I love that they reclaimed terms, and I love them. And I love those terms. Um, and that's why I wanted to see, but they reclaimed terms within the LGBT Q I community. And so they still perhaps have a negative connotation for those outside of that community. [00:03:30] And so they can still be used in a draw way. But I'm really keen to see if general Society look at bow images and still do that whole, um, you know, diesel dike or she should be a man. Or is it a woman? Is it a man? But that whole negative reaction to it, I'm really interested to see if that is still around. And that's still present in society, right? And so that's what you'll be measuring through interviews, correct. So I'm actually doing surveying now. So So, um, it'll be through survey monkey. [00:04:00] And it will be, um it's about collecting responses to So what? What it's gonna be is we're gonna show I'm going to show the, um the full, um, Butch a hard, harder image and a soft image, but not next to each other. So it's going to be randomised so that so and then it's gonna be a like it scale. So people will be able to go in and show whether they feel really positive towards the image or really negative towards the image. And then at the end, it talks about whether they have photographic, um, experience because that will come [00:04:30] into the their interpretation of the LGBT Q I um, if they have friends that are LGBT Q I All those questions have to come at the end because that can, um that that can sway their responses. Um, so it'll be quite interesting for when I actually write up the paper on it. Um, how that how we see that perception if it has changed or or how it might have changed. Change? What's your what's your starting point? So So So my benchmark [00:05:00] is back in and when um, Butch lesbian or Butch woman is a is a negative thing is a It's a, um, and societal views from back in the eighties where Butch woman might have, you know, that whole diesel dike, that negative connotation to it, that, um so that I want to see if it's become more positive over over time. How are you selecting participants? That's see, That's so that's what I'm working through at the moment. Um, so the participants will probably [00:05:30] be selected, um, via, uh, boosted Facebook posts, mostly because that way you can target a specific set of of audience, or you can have, um, your audience set out so that it's not just one group of people um, or one portion of society that I can get a whole lot. Um, and that's running through the, uh, the UO research subcommittee at the moment just to make sure that there's no ethical issues around that. And what is your What are your studies? [00:06:00] What do you study? So so that. Well, that's just, um, part of PB RF stuff. So, um, so that's the performance based research funds, uh, for government. So, um, so that's so basically in my role as head of school for creative industries at UC. Um, I'm required to do research. I have, um, that sits under my responsibility. Um, degrees and master's degrees. Um, so as part of that, um, I, I really need to make sure that I'm an active researcher, and this is the research project [00:06:30] that I have decided to do this year. Um, it changes every year. I do different projects every year, but this is the one that I'm currently working on. Um, and the, um PB RF ratings. Um, that needs to be, uh, has to be a, uh, an output that has been, um, quality assured. And so, by having my, um, exhibition at man uh, it has been approved to be at man. I had to go through an application process and and stuff to get it in here. And so that means [00:07:00] it has been quality assured in that in that aspect. And what do you hope will come from your your research and your paper? I want more visibility for Butch Woman I want I really want to have more butch woman. And, you know, I was inspired not only by your work, but work that's been happening in San Francisco, um, to do more of this work because Butch photography but photography but Butch Imagery, uh, Butch woman imagery. Um, it's just I think more visibility [00:07:30] will help people to young young woman to make that decision of whether they need to transition or they want to live as a butch woman. Because previously I had pressures growing up that, um, that questioned whether I should be transitioning, um, as a butch woman myself and and it was just societal pressures that made me question that I. I love being a butch woman, but woman being a butch woman, that's my identity, and I love it, and I wouldn't change it for anything. Um, but [00:08:00] I can see societal pressures can influence people in certain directions and I. I want to make sure that having Butch Woman is visible shows that there is an identity there and that that's an option. So I because I think they're kind of two issues, really. I think there's there is a blurring for some people around that transitional path that that's that's something that they that is in their thinking. Um, however it's it's [00:08:30] for me. It would be if people are transitioning and they go through that, it's they're finding their true identity. And they may have come from a place of being botch or actually experience my friends. And and there is there is more of the opening up of the option, and it's not an easy road to take for anyone. So it's, um, II. I would I don't think everyone who is going into um into transitioning, [00:09:00] um necessarily is putting aside being a butch woman, because that's actually not what they were. That's right, Yeah, no, and that's absolutely true. But there's been a lot of stuff that's inspired me recently in the news. We are not in new Zealand and other places. Butch women are forced to transition, and, um so so this is in the Philippines. So there's been a news article recently about the in the Philippines, and there was an interview done with, um, a now a young man who said that he was [00:09:30] forced into transitioning and doesn't want to be a man. Wants to be a butch woman, um, but wasn't allowed to in that society. And it's I don't think that's the same in New Zealand. I don't but I think it's a worldwide issue. I. I think that, you know Yes, sure, that's a that's a cultural. That's a cultural thing, But it is happening. It can happen anywhere. It could be pressures from, um from from anywhere. Yeah. I mean, II, I kind of feel in in New Zealand that, um there there has been there has [00:10:00] been a bit of an attitude over the years towards people who have transitioned Where, um it is It is sort of like, Oh, you know, why can't you just be Butch White? What are you doing? You just sort of like Butch Flight is is one is one term I've used and I think it's more of an opening of the conversation to say, actually that, you know, this is an option someone is able to take now and they they don't have to identify as a lesbian, but woman. So if that's not true to them, I completely I completely [00:10:30] agree with that. And I always know that there's a scale, Um, there there's a sliding scale of, you know I need to transition. This is who I am and this is life threatening for me. I need to be who I am, um, and and and and others who find that pressure. And it's really interesting having been talking to the participants from my study, Um, who think that, you know, Butch identity is going to, um is going to become extinct and other young butch woman who who say that they want but to be more visible, [00:11:00] um, in society, um and and have that as making sure that people know that that's there, that that culture, that our culture is there. Um, And it was really interesting seeing that because the women in my study, uh, identify as Butch woman and are very, very proud to be butch woman. Um and so the their history, their experiences, and the reason why they were participating in that study was really interesting to me. And it really resonated with me as well, because it was part of my reasoning for [00:11:30] doing the study. They all had to say to you, they all had to confirm with you that they were butch women to be in this correct. So because so So here was the thing. I put a call out for Butch Woman women who identify as Butch. Um And so, you know, there was a lot of there was a lot of people tagging others in in my post and saying, You know, this would be great for you and they're like, No, I'm not Butch. And it might appear to others that they might be, but they don't self identify as Butch, and so that that's where I wanted to make [00:12:00] sure that the woman in my study self-identity as Butch and and that was really important. I had the same issue with the butch and Butch And where, um where, uh, my photos, um, ended up being about people who identified as Butch or felt they were seen as Butch. And no, that wasn't actually a gender thing. It was butch itself and it. And it turned out to be most mostly women, mostly lesbian [00:12:30] women. Um, but not all, um, and And I had to swap exactly kind of the same as you from going approaching people who I thought were butch and happy to be identified as that and getting really burnt in that process to more of you contact me. That's right. Yeah. And I. I realised that quite quickly, um, that I wasn't going to go out to a woman and say, Oh, you But come and do my study because very much, even though they [00:13:00] might perceive to be butch from society, they don't identify as being butch themselves. And I wanted to be very, very clear that in my study these were women who self identify as butch women. It's quite a Western concept, too. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Um, yeah. So and my one identified as to, rather than as as that made so much more sense for her. Um And have [00:13:30] you, um in terms of the exhibition being on it to and having a lot of LGBT coming through. That must be really cool. Like visibility in Palmerston North would have been the first butcher exhibition here, I think. Yeah, well, it turned out to be in a really cool month, because here we had Rebecca Swan with her exquisite wound, Uh, which is just absolutely flooring. It's [00:14:00] just so good. Um and, um, we had also, you know, the top twins and, you know, fell at the same time as the, um, as the National Museums Conference. And we had the lesbian, um, museum here. Um, and it was just, I don't know, it seemed to be lesbian month at, and but it was just It was just brilliant. I just everything fell into place because because we're at the opening of the top Twins exhibition. I know that that Jules and Linda came down. Yes, they did. Yes, they did. They came to have a look through [00:14:30] the exhibition, and, um, and was actually looking at more of the finer detail of the images rather than overall. There's a butch woman, but, um, the the well, I had one participant who, um, had a a Nana tattoo and a love heart. on her arm, and they were absolutely fascinated by the the context of or the Maybe it was more of the, um the displacement between the tattoo and the softness of the tattoo compared to the way she looked and the hardness of the image describe some of the other images. I know a couple of friends [00:15:00] minor in there, and they look like they're playing with a dildo. You know what? There was a vacuum cleaner and no one else. I didn't notice it at the time, and I put it up in Mana, and staff were like, That's a dildo! And I'm like, No, it's not. It's a vacuum cleaner. I swear it's a vacuum cleaner. Um, but actually, it works either way, I guess. Um, but, um, but that was really quite cool, because, um, that participant identified as soft, but which is what I identify with as well, um, and I really like the idea of having that [00:15:30] subservient, um, image in there. That was on, in contrast to a bit of a harder look that she had and it was awesome. Um, and, um, and other participants, um, wanted to be seen with their animals so their dog in the and that was a more of a softer approach. Um, and then they have a slightly harder, harder look. And these images were done in a way that the participants wanted to be seen. So I didn't necessarily direct them. Although, to be fair, some of the some of the participants said to me, How do I look, Butch? [00:16:00] You know, how do you, you know, how am I gonna How do I look hard? And I'm like, Just don't smile. It's gonna work for you. It's fine. Um, and they're like, Oh, yeah, cool. And then, um and then So I did. I did a lot of shoots in Wellington. I did some in palms north. I did some in Hamilton and some in Auckland. Um, and the participants were really open to, um very open to the the harder, softer contrast of those images. Um and, um, some of them that I did one here in Palmerston North and she's a young butch lesbian, and she [00:16:30] wanted to be seen because she's an accountant and she wanted to be seen in that corporate world. So she was dressed in a suit, um, and wanted to be seen. As you know, this is this is an option, you know, You know, Butch woman in a successful corporate role and to be seen that way, and and that was really cool as well. What? What do you see? As as harder and softer. What does that mean to you? So that so what that means to me? And what the participants were trying to get across is that contrast between a softer, more approachable look and a harder, more standoffish [00:17:00] kind of, uh, you know, if if if I'm not smiling, some people could could think that I look hard, That's, you know, a a perception could be my perception that I'm projecting, perhaps, but, um, so it So sometimes I feel like, you know, we can project ourselves to be harder, and sometimes we can project ourselves to be softer and more approachable, so harder being tough, tough, tough, but tough. So, um so yeah, that's that's how I That's [00:17:30] how I was wanting to to see those two images and that contrast between them. I wanted to see it. As you know, we're not always looking that we're not always looking that tough We're not always tough that we we do have our soft sides. Uh, and that's part of that was part of that, um, that duality of those images as well. Do you see it? Harder, harder, softer, As in terms of masculinity, femininity can have. It can be related to that. Um, so that's that's fully dependent on the reception [00:18:00] theory. I think it's fully depended on how the audience or viewer wants to see those images. Um, I when we photographed them, the participant was happy to be seen in that softer, more approachable role as well as But we didn't mention it as a feminine masculine that wasn't mentioned at all in the when we discussed it with the participants. But, um, but that could be seen as that. And absolutely, um, yeah, yeah. Did FM identity [00:18:30] come up through any of this? No, Not mentioned once. Yeah, not mentioned once at all. And, um, I spent quite a good time with the participants as well, and then mostly in their homes or wherever they wanted to be, um, to have those images done. Um, and not once did fem identity or fem discussions come up. It was all around the butch identity and why they want to participate and how they wanted to be seen. So you do your paper, then what? Well, I hope [00:19:00] to get it published in a number of different places. Um, depending on the outcomes. You know, some of them might be a bit more neutral than I expect, but that's still an outcome. Um, so hopefully you get it published. I've had I've been approached by the trans community, and, um, and the, um, gay male community as well, uh, to do similar studies in those areas. And I'm absolutely open to that. Um, I The research is funded by UC. Um, and it's just a matter of me putting in, you know, a research application form [00:19:30] to just extend the study into other areas, so people will be able to access your research at some point. Yeah, absolutely. They will be. Yeah. I'll be able to put those, um, and have those available. Um, they will, um I need to find out where they will be, but, um, they'll be made public. Um, the the findings that the articles will all be made public this 2018. No, this will be the end of this year of 2017. Yeah. End of 2017 is there. Is there any website [00:20:00] or anything where people can go now to look at what you're doing? Um, at the moment? No, that will probably be set up a little later on. Um, once I have the research and the data collected to then do those findings.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags