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I was at a social function and, um, one of the other cast members, um said, um oh, I'm going into a show and I said, Oh, what sort of show is it? Oh, it's a drag show, you know? And I said, Oh, tell me more about it And, um, I thought, Oh, I've never been on stage or anything like that before And he was so enthusiastic that I said, Hey, I'd like to be involved. I'll give you a name to Jonathan He said. So a day later, I got a phone call from Jonathan, and I couldn't say no. [00:00:30] Um, he was so enthusiastic. He was saying, This is what my vision is. This is what I think it should be. Um, what country do you want to be? And I said, But I haven't decided. He said, Yes, you have. And, um, I said, Oh, OK, fine. Um, I said, I don't know what country I said. I'm not very good at my geography and stuff like that, he says. Well, you've got three or four countries and you're Guatemala. I went Guatemala. OK, where's Guatemala? What costumes do Guatemala have? What is the language [00:01:00] Um and I started to panic, and I said, OK, so can I have some time to think about it? No, because I need to get all my cast together. So you're it. And I went OK, Jonathan, that's fine. I'd like to be involved, so yeah, that's where it came about. Have you done any performance like that before? No, I hadn't. Um, and I thought that this was an opportunity of being able to do that being a person who came [00:01:30] out as gay late in life, Um, I thought this is maybe, um, something that I can do and say, Well, this is me. I am what I am. And, um, this is where it all came about. For me. Yeah, that's a big leap. I mean, from somebody that has not gone and done any performance work to them being on stage and being in drag on stage. True. True. My, my, I have a background in, um, venue management [00:02:00] and everything like that. I've seen it all how it's all put together and that sort of thing, but never ever been involved on that stage thing. And I think talking with Jonathan and knowing what his vision was of the show and what his goals were inspired me to be involved. And I'm so proud to be able to say that I've been in every show and I'm looking forward to this final mega one because I can say I've done it all. I've been on that [00:02:30] journey with you, Jonathan. And this is what what it's all about, You know, we have enjoyed ourselves that first show How many people were participating? Oh, I can't remember the numbers, but there were very few backstage people. Um, we actually got dressed on stage. It was only at two girls that were allowed dressing rooms, so we were on stage getting our makeup on behind the curtains. Um, and I just remember, um, [00:03:00] there were dozens of people. I don't know how many people were there, but there were a small amount compared with what there is now. But I just remember that first time, um, getting the makeup on being there at 23 o'clock in the afternoon, um, sitting around, getting made up. And then they said, right, you got to get your gowns on. Um, 20 minutes to curtain. Well, my makeup wasn't finished. I hadn't got dressed. I didn't have my wig on. Um, and then it was five minutes to curtain. My wig still [00:03:30] wasn't on my zip got stuck. Um, and my dresser is saying, we've got time, We've got time. And I started to panic. Just as they said, The curtains going up, my wig went on. I stood in in line where I should be, and my legs were shaking. And as soon as that curtain went up and the roar from the audience forgot about it, you know, and that's what it was all about. You could see the camaraderie right from that start. And that's where it is right now. [00:04:00] How do you think that camaraderie came into being? I think it is that we are all there for the same reason. Um, nobody wants to outdo anybody else while while there is that competition in Act two. I think everybody wants to be part of it. Um, and they just enjoy being around each other. And that camaraderie I've never, ever been in an organisation where that camaraderie stays even outside [00:04:30] of Queen of the whole universe itself. We can meet at various functions in the community, and we're just like brothers and sisters. You know, um and we just we all get on really well and I, I just I think this is something that Jonathan has created. That first show. Where was it? It was held at Sky City. Yeah. And, um, not much room. Um, and you know very well. Very few seats compared with what there is now. Um and, um, yeah, it [00:05:00] it, um It was just all new. And here we were walking through, um, you know, the casino upstairs and our high heels and everything like that and and going to rehearsals, you know? And I thought, Oh, you know, I wonder if I meet somebody that I know and that sort of thing, you know? But we didn't care. It didn't really matter, you know? We were there to do a job, and, um, look forward to it. Have you done drag before? No. Never. I had never done drag until I put my dress on When I did Queen of the [00:05:30] whole Pacific. What were the things that you learned immediately about being dragged? What were the I don't know how women do it. Um because it's so stressful. And it takes me about four hours to put my makeup on. Anyway, um, you know, but I, I think it was just, um it was all new and learning things. And, you know, today I can put my own makeup on, but then I couldn't. I had to have people do it for me. And I guess the whole thing of actually moving in heels [00:06:00] moving in heels, That was, um, a an experience. Um, I started with very, very low heels. Um, you could never get your shoes to fit you from anywhere except Ronnie's out down south. Um, and, um and And we were all going out there getting our shoes because they've all got big feet down there. And, um so we came back with shoes and we had started with small heels. And then some of the the [00:06:30] more game guys or girls in the show started getting higher heels. So we all started getting higher heels as well, and, um yeah, it, um it takes a little bit to get used to. Um, believe me, it's not easy. And for one who has fallen off my high heels at rehearsal, um, being taken away by an ambulance. Um, everything like that. Um, it's not easy on heels, but yeah, that happened in rehearsals. [00:07:00] So what happened there? And then we were just doing rehearsals and for some unknown reason, I don't know whether my heel got stuck in a hole in the floor or whether I just lost balance. I went down and went to save myself with my arm and my arm dislocated. My elbow popped out. Everything like that. And I Yeah, I could just see that my whole time with Queen, the whole universe was ended. I thought Jonathan's not going to want me in there. You know, I my [00:07:30] arms broken everything like that. You know, the ambulance came here. Were all the guys in shorts in high heels, Um, hovering around me and these ambulance guys arriving just looking and thinking what is going on here? And I'm lying on the floor in pain with my high heels on, um, they took me to hospital in an ambulance. Um, I was in hospital for two days. Um, and I performed with a cast on [00:08:00] um, and Jonathan said Yes. You can still be in the show I was Miss Argentina. Um, and I had this, um, plaster on and 22 or three of the cast, um, decided I needed to have sort of a a sleeve to look like my gown over the plaster. Everything. It was great because everybody sort of looked after me. And, um, yeah, it was good. And, um, the situation I ended up being, um, mis congeniality. [00:08:30] And they told me that I just got it out of sympathy. But, you know, I think I was beautiful that time anyway. So, you know, I don't care what anybody says. Have there been any other kind of accidents like that in the in the time that you've known? Just me. And, um, Jonathan loves to be able to tell that story to everybody. Yeah, um, you know, when I look back, it is funny. Um, I feel I've made history. Um, and that's just part of it, you know? So, um, but yeah, it it was just a freak accident. That's all it was. And, um, [00:09:00] you know it it just brought everybody together, and, um, yeah, it was great. It's interesting, because I I was just thinking, um, some of the headgear, which is, I think has got a two metre by two metre kind of limit to it. But that could actually be quite dangerous, couldn't it? Trying to balance your head gear plus your heels and then anything else that you've got on and trying to lift your gown to try and walk down stairs and stuff like that. You've got so much to think about. And, um yeah, II. I don't understand how [00:09:30] there hasn't been any more accidents. I guess we're all, um, professional now in our high heels and stuff like that. But yeah, Um, yeah, I don't know why, but, um, there's been a lot of great headgear, stuff like that that could have had accidents, but not nothing at all. Can you describe some of your most favourite head gear from the pageants? My favourite headgear? Yeah, There was one that was, um, sort of sunflowers, and it was all lit [00:10:00] up. Um, you know, there there was, um, huge. Um, I don't know butterflies, and there's there's been poppies. And, um, there's been Carmen's head. Um, you know it It's just that people are so creative. So in terms of your own head gear. Do you make that yourself? No, I don't. No, I get it made for me. Um, last year I was Miss Thailand. Um, so I had one of those big pointy [00:10:30] things there. Somebody made it for me. Um, I one year, I didn't have headgear, but I went and approached the Bumble Bee Company. Um, because I was Miss New Zealand and the Bumble Bee or the Buzzy Bee is an icon to New Zealand. So I had one that I could ride on coming on stage, and I had a small one under my arm, and the audience just went berserk, you know, because, um I guess I I wanted to wear it on my head, but it was too, too [00:11:00] big. But it was just like a small motor car. And, um yeah, I. I just liked doing that as well. Um, but yeah, the head gear, uh, situation is is just is great. It's just another, um, part of the show. Do you find it easy to attract sponsors, like, say, the the Bumble Bee Company? Yeah, I, um Well, the thing is, when I first came in as queen of the whole Pacific. Um, I just looked in the phone book for a dressmaker, and I found one out in New Lynn, [00:11:30] and I just phoned her, explained to her what was going on, and she said, Just come and see me and she made my gown for nothing. And then, um, through colleagues, when I worked at the edge at a a centre, um, Denise ran from world. Um, they came on board for two years in a row and did my gown for me. I was Miss Spain and Miss Argentina and never charged me. Um, And then I went to roses, um, in Green Lane, and for [00:12:00] two years, they did my gowns for me. Um, and it's just great to see that they don't want any reward for it. Um, and they were happy to do it. They were just so happy to do what I wanted to do, you know, and their input and everything like that. And, um yeah, I. I think if you're in an Act two situation where you need a lot more money, it is hard to get sponsorship. But if you're doing it just for your gown, or maybe your head gear It's probably [00:12:30] a lot easier because you can approach single type, uh, companies, whereas the other girls that go into Act two need to go to that more corporate situation. And it's really hard to get the corporate money these days. So when you go to a designer, how do you express what you want? So, for instance, if you take one of the countries that you've been involved with, um, Miss Miss Argentina, I wanted to be, um, Eva Peron. But my name was, um [00:13:00] um I, um So, um, I wanted to create that, um, Miss Argentina and I wanted to have that microphone and be able to address the the country and everything like that. I wanted a big white gown. You know, I guess it's because I've never been a bride. And it was a big white gown, Um, with all the frills and everything like that with my broken arm. Um, but the thing is that I just said to them, You know, this is the country. This is what [00:13:30] I'm trying to portray as a character, and they just come up with it for me. That's amazing. It just was amazing to get a world. You know, an international company on board just to do that for me, you know? And I only did it for two years because I thought you can't keep going back and asking, You know, um, and I've tried to do that, so Yeah, And who comes up with the names? Oh, we get them ourselves. You know, innuendos. Uh, it's good to see the innuendos up on the screen. And people then [00:14:00] realise what you're trying to say. Um, but yeah. Miss Thailand was I was mis wanting some young guy. So, um yeah, that was I was too, you know. So, Miss Tale, she was beautiful. So yeah, what about audience reaction? Can you recall what the audience was like on that first show? Amazing. They were stomping. They were clapping. Um, we came out and we did. The first song [00:14:30] was I am what I am. And the audience just went crazy. That gave the adrenaline to us as performers and just watching the guys. As soon as they heard it, they were pumping and the gowns were flowing and and the personalities were coming out. The characters were coming out, and at the end of the night. It was just amazing. It really was. And to be able to go up in the foyer afterwards in our gowns and meet [00:15:00] the audience is just superb, you know? And we just go out on the town and our gowns. You know, it's the one time where we can go out and and feel great because we're all in a group and we feel safe together, you know? It's good. Yeah. When you were in rehearsal for the first show, did you have any idea that the audience would react that way? No, not at all. I. I didn't know what type of audience would come come to the show. Um, I invited [00:15:30] my friends. Some of them said, Oh, that's not really me. Um, I don't want to go along and see guys in dresses and stuff like that. Um, some of those people have come since because they know what the, um what the show is all about and that it's not smutty or anything like that, You know that it is a professional show. Um, and but no, you didn't know what the audience was going to be. We'd never done it before. Um Jonathan would. He always [00:16:00] said to us, The audience is gonna go mad at look, the the rehearsals is looking good, you know? And you're just gonna blow them away, and we couldn't see that, but now we know we can. You know, Every time that curtain goes up, we just get out there, and, um, we try to make the audience get more and more enthusiastic every year. What's Jonathan's directing style like? Oh, he gets grumpy every now and again. But no, no, he's really, really good. He knows what [00:16:30] he wants. Um, we know what he wants, but we we're there to have fun as well. And there are times where we get told off to shut up and listen and that sort of thing. Um, but this is what it's all about. The camaraderie. Um, and we listen to Jonathan. And if we didn't listen to Jonathan, you wouldn't get the product that happens on the night. So, you know, his style is good. Um, we I guess we we've trained him, uh, to where he's got now. Um, you know, he he must [00:17:00] have learned something from us, as we've learned from him. Um, so Yeah. So it's one thing having a one-off pageant and it being successful but having 10 and having it over multiple years. How has that been achieved? Uh, I think it is because Jonathan has kept the majority of the cast who believe in his, um, vision. His goals believe [00:17:30] in the, um, places that we are raising funds for. It's close to our hearts. Um, and I think that we want to see it happen every year because we get a lot out of it ourselves. It's that camaraderie. It's It's the raising of the funds. It's being together twice a day, twice a week for I don't know how many weeks we rehearse. And it's just being a big family. Um, and I, I think that, um, it it's just [00:18:00] made it, um, people would say, You know, you can only do it two or three times. We we will have done it by 10 times. Um, I know it's the mega. I know Jonathan saying it's the final. Um, I guess you have to stop at some stage. Um, I guess Miss World has gone on for years and years and years, you know, um, take us to to the USA and and tour us. Then we can keep it going. You know, um, we've toured to Wellington. It's been great, you know, Um and, [00:18:30] um it makes us feel good people coming to see us in Wellington, you know, they fill the theatre as well. Do the audiences differ from, say, Auckland to Wellington? I think the Auckland audience is more enthusiastic. Wellington, I don't think had seen a show like that before. Um, and it was all new to them. While they've got drag queens down there, they'd never seen a production like that. Um, you know, we we went down there to one year [00:19:00] and just performed on a small stage in the foyer, not the whole show. And that's where I think Jonathan realised that there was room for us to go to Wellington. Um, because you could see that people were interested in and what we did at that time. So, yeah, we just did a couple of the, um, opening numbers and everything like that, you know, in our gowns and stuff like that. So, yeah, that would have been an interesting experience, because you would have been pretty close to the audience. We were We were, you know, they were They were there, right there. And, [00:19:30] um, we didn't really have dressing rooms to to dress in. Uh, it was just a big room, and everybody was just throwing their wigs off and putting their bras on and everything like that and then going out and finding they didn't have their bra on. Um, but yeah, it was It was great to be able to be in amongst it, and we were able to walk around the people as well. Um, and and get that audience reaction as well. So, for you personally, um, you said at the start that, uh, you were late coming out. How much time had [00:20:00] elapsed between coming out and actually being part of the pageant? Uh, probably five years. Yeah, five years. Um, I'd just come to Auckland as well. Um, and hadn't got involved in in the community as such. Um, and this really, um, bought it out for me. Um, I had just got into a relationship. Um, and my ex partner didn't want me to do the first show. [00:20:30] Um, however, from the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th show, he was involved. So you know it It it just created more. And it was good to be able to have, um that somebody did, um, agree with what I was doing at the end. Um, because the first one was you shouldn't really go out and do it again. Sort of thing, You know, um but I'm glad that we both did it because, um, we both enjoyed [00:21:00] it. So, yeah, what was his reservation for? Because I was in a gown. I was in a gown, but then he had no hesitation in going and getting into a gown as well the following year. Sort of thing. You know what I mean? Um, so I, I think it was that, um, getting used to it, I guess. Um, because he probably hadn't seen a lot of guys in gowns. Can you describe for me the, uh, transformation [00:21:30] process of going from you into a a drag? II, I think, um, while while that character might be still deep down in me as soon as I start putting makeup and that on, that's when the character starts. Um, and you don't see Trevor when when dusty goes out? Um, because Dusty takes over, Um, and she takes over a hell of a lot, you know, Um, but yeah. I. I think it's still down there, but yeah, [00:22:00] you've got to split it. You do have to split that. Dusty and Trevor are two different people. Do you ever find that they kind of cross over, or are they very clear? Demarcation? No, not clear demarcation? No, not clear demarcation. Um, I guess they support each other. Yeah. So what's the biggest thing that you've taken away from the pageants, I guess. More confidence in myself. [00:22:30] Um, to be able to go out and do things like, um, I have been asked to compare and, um, that sort of thing in drag. Um, I probably would never have done that, but I feel more confident going out and doing that. Um, it's given me, um, also an understanding of the community of where, where people are, where people are at in their lives, where they're at with their sexuality. Um, because you see some some guys who are new [00:23:00] into, uh, coming into the show who aren't really sure. Um and, um, they they just want to come in and do the show, and then they'll leave and not come back again. Maybe it wasn't for them, but then you'll get the guys that come in and say, Well, this is what I want And this is what it's all about. And it's that family situation again. They can see that camaraderie. They can see the friendships that can be made. They can see. Um, you know that that there's potential and and that there's [00:23:30] a lot out of queen of the whole universe that you can get, um, in other in other sectors of of, um, social life as well. You know, um, you know, with the camaraderie, I remember the first show that I did Queen of the whole Pacific. Um, I got my gown made. It was big doing rehearsals. I was losing weight. Um, and Steve Lawrence who, um, I had never met um came up to me and said, Hey, Dale, he said, I love you, gown. [00:24:00] I think we could just tweak it a little bit for you, and he took it home for me. He adjusted it. And he just made me feel really good on that night because he took care. You know what I mean, it was, um you could see that somebody cared about it. They didn't want to see me look stupid. I didn't know what it looked like because I'd never worn a dress before. Um, and it was too big, I guess. And he just tucked it, Did things to it for me. Um, and Steve, Steve has been there for me. Um, [00:24:30] over all these years, he's done my makeup. If I've had to go out, um, he's had input into my gowns, Um, and and he'll tell me if I need to do this or I need to do that. And I've respected him right from that day one where he, I guess, respected me to make sure that I look good on stage. And you know that that that's where that, um, camaraderie and the family situation comes into the show and inclusiveness as well. Inclusiveness. Yeah, it is. Yeah, [00:25:00] it is. I mean, I find it really interesting that, um no matter what gender or sexuality, everyone is welcome. Totally. You know, that was what Jonathan I think set out to do was he wanted to encourage and get people to do things that they may have never done before and whether that's backstage doing dressing backstage, putting props out makeup, um, somebody making the cups of tea and putting the biscuits out for rehearsal. He's brought in so many people [00:25:30] who want to be involved, but not necessarily have to put on a gown and get out there. But they are still part of it. And you can never, ever, um, dismiss those people that work backstage. Those people work their asses off, you know, we take the glory, but they're working their asses off to make sure that we get to do what we have to do and everything is there for us. I imagine, actually, just manoeuvring some of [00:26:00] those head pieces totally, totally, you know, and and trying to put them on us when we are saying watch our earrings, watch our shoes, Don't muck up my dress. But put that bloody thing back on my head properly, you know, um, so, yeah, it's, um it's made up of so many people and so many, um, different cultures. Um, all that sort of thing. The diversification of people is just amazing. [00:26:30] And and, you know, um, I guess that's what Jonathan set out to do was to give people the experience in situations that they may have never have come up against had they just just been out in the community. And that's where I feel that I have learned as well. While I've still got a background in venue management and that I'm still learning and watching the stage manager, I'm watching wardrobe. I'm watching people [00:27:00] doing lighting and stuff like that because it interests me. And it's now making me even more. Uh, I've got more knowledge of the whole thing. And that's where I think we're all. We're all getting that now. Over the years that it's been running, have you seen a change in the type of person wanting to participate? Yes. Yeah. Um, we're getting a lot of the younger ones now, I. I guess I'm probably the third oldest [00:27:30] in the show. Um, and you're getting a lot a lot of young ones coming through now. Um, but then you're still getting those, um, 30 to 40 year old ones as well. Um, and I guess it's their way of wanting to be part of the community in a different way than going to a bar drinking, all that sort of stuff. You know, What are your thoughts? Um, for somebody that that that came out, Uh, a bit older, looking at some of the [00:28:00] the the younger ones coming through the show. I wish I was coming out. Now, I wish I was born later. Uh, so much easier for those guys coming out. Um, while I say are much easier for them coming out. It's not, um, hidden as it was in my time. Um, yes, I guess they have those insecurities in that as well. Should I come out? Should I not come out? Um, and, um, [00:28:30] there's a lot of agencies and all that now that are there to be able to help them. Um, in that situation, when I knew I was gay, um, years years back when I was a child I I knew I was gay. Um, but the thing is that, um there was nothing there. And you were too scared because it was frowned upon. Um, and I guess that's why I came out at 45. Um, yeah, II. I just [00:29:00] wish that the opportunity was there. Um, maybe my life may have been different Um, yeah, but I admire the young ones these days. They you know, they they can just take it out there. They're accepted, and it doesn't matter a damn whether they're gay or not. You look around, you see them with heterosexuals, all that sort of thing, and and it doesn't matter. But with us, um, I lost a lot of friends when I came out as gay. Um, [00:29:30] and you know, people said to me, we used to go fishing together, and I say, Yeah, so Yeah, but you're gay. And I said, But what did I do to the fish, or what did I do to you? Or I still hung the rod over the over the boat like you did, you know? And I caught fish. What's the difference? You know, But I guess it said insecurity in my age group. Um, whereas in the younger age group these days, it doesn't seem to be that hard for them. [00:30:00] But, you know, they still must have their own hangups. Well, not hang ups. Their insecurities. Really? Yeah. It must also be quite nice to be in a situation. Say, with this pageant, where it's cross generational, you don't actually get that in many places. You don't. You don't. That's right. You know, we range from I think about 64. 65 is the oldest, and I think the youngest is probably, I don't know, 18 19. So it's a great cross section, Um and, [00:30:30] um, a lot of different professions, Um, and and those profession, you know, we using isn't the word, but we use each other for things because we can offer things, um, with our own skills and that to help others do you know what I mean? And I think that's where it comes in as well that as a community in a community, Um, so we're in the gay community, but we're in the community of queen, the whole universe, and we help each other [00:31:00] over the 10 pageants. Have you seen, or can you think of people that have started and then really developed? Are there are there individuals that you can think about that that just really blossomed? Oh, totally. Totally. You see them, uh, blossom every year, they they might be still in that same character, but they're putting a different character into the country. Um, but some will come in Very, very quiet. And now you can't stop them. You know, [00:31:30] they're out there. They want to be in front. You know, um and good on them good on them, but it it's just coming in, knowing the boundaries, um, knowing other people's boundaries, where you can go and what your boundaries are and put those together. And this is what's formed the show, I guess. So what do you think will happen after this 10th show? Well, I think and And the curtain goes down, you're gonna have a lot of drag queens crying and the makeup's gonna be rolling down the face. [00:32:00] We're all going to have to get our makeup redone. When we go out after the show. I think it's going to be a real happy time. Sad time. It will be said when that curtain goes down for the last time for the queen of the whole universe. Um, I can't imagine that Jonathan will not do something else. Maybe in a different format. But the queen of the whole universe. Um, I guess it's time for it to end, [00:32:30] but it's going to be a very, very sad time, especially for I think there's four of us who are originals, and that's going to be really hard because we've been there from day one. We've seen it grow. We've seen everything that's happened there. Um, but, you know, we're going to have a good time. It will be an awesome time because, you know, this has got to be the big one. If you had an opportunity to speak to all those people in the dark on that evening what What would What would you mean? [00:33:00] You mean the casting crew or people out there in the dark? Yeah, I would say to the audience, We have given you 10 performances of the best, and, um, you they have helped us create it by being there and supporting us. Um, they have given life to a lot of people. Uh, they've given, um, people more, um, feelings [00:33:30] for themselves, that they can actually get out there and do things, whether it be, as I said before backstage or front of house, that sort of thing. Um I think, um, it's one opportunity that we didn't let go and we did it. And I think we can all be proud, and I think Even if the the ones that were in the first show that are no longer if they come on that night, they are still part of us. And we can say [00:34:00] this is what we did.
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