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And my husband, Graham, was, um, involved in the theatre, and I worked with Kevin in a community mental health centre. And Kevin was a nurse, a community mental health nurse and a therapist. And, um and Kevin was a, uh, a therapist and a nurse there. So I That's how we knew. And, um, Jonathan knew my husband through sort of the theatre work. And then Graham [00:00:30] passed away, and Jonathan and Kevin rang me up and said, Now we need to keep you busy. Um, would you like to sort of be in the show? And I thought they meant help in an administrative sort of way, you know, So off I go to their apartment, and, um, Jonathan said to me Now, when you're on the catwalk and I said Catwalk No, no, I'm not going on any catwalk. And then he play. He said, Wait till you hear the music. So he played the music and I said, Oh, I might [00:01:00] So it sort of started from there. It wasn't by I didn't go into it. So fully aware of what was happening. And then after that, um, I think it was 2006 was my first show, and, um, sort of carried on from there. Sort of a bit. Um, you get a bit addicted. I think. You have. You seen the show before? I didn't know anything about it. No. Didn't know. No. The only sort of thing I'd ever done before was, um, I worked as a volunteer for the AIDS Foundation. So, [00:01:30] you know, that's all I knew about that side of, uh, gay and transvestite or whatever they may be, whatever their gender may be. So that part of it wasn't a problem, But being on stage was, and perhaps, you know, have to go on a catwalk and learn in a few dance steps and things like that. So but, um, we had to go to a a rehearsal in Grey Library Hall, and I thought, [00:02:00] What am I doing? You know, an older person coming in here with all these lovely people? What? What? Will they think? What they think? What does she want? You know, what's she all about? Really? Sort of felt like I was going into their world, I suppose. And, um, how they would view that. And, um so there I arrive and There's all these beautifully dressed men coming from work, rolling up their trousers and putting on these amazing shoes with lights. And I was just captivated by that. [00:02:30] And, um, and they were Everybody was just so friendly. It was just lovely. And from then on, it was I was That was the start of it, I suppose. And it became like you, you know, got to know everybody. And it was just real fun. Have you been in any kind of environment like that? No. Never. Never. Never. So, um, no, it was just They're all just such wonderful people. And, um, just so I think that's what amazed [00:03:00] me, Talented in the outcome of their dresses. And what they what? Their ideas And, yeah, just lovely. Is there a common thread that runs through the people that participate? When you when you first walked in there, could you could you kind of, like, pinpoint one thing? Or is it such a diverse group? Not really, no, they are a diver. I mean, you get you're really outgoing people that are excellent dancers and movers and others who are thinking, Oh, I might have to stand at the back if that's what it's like, but [00:03:30] no, not really. They're all from different walks of life. So that was nice. That's what was nice. Um, yeah. No, they were very, very welcoming. And it felt like a big sort of family. Yeah, and so that was twice a week. And then I had to approach my son for headgear because my son works in theatre. He does sort of sets and, uh, for, uh, silo and for the theatre company. And that's what my husband [00:04:00] did prior to that. So I thought, Well, who can make my outfit? So I was Miss Easter Island that year, so he made me a massive Easter egg. It was bigger than I was. So I had this huge Easter egg covered in beautiful, glittery material with, um, it was incredible. So and then I had a little tail with lights in. So and I borrowed these boots from a couple of guys in the show. They were, um, prison wardens at the time. One was a, uh, also a nurse. [00:04:30] But they had these massive boots because you can't buy those sort of drag boots for women's size because it's generally the men that are doing it. So I just said I really want to because I was so small on stage. I mean, as soon as a man puts a dress on, they look fantastic. And they've got better legs than women, which is, you know, not fair and better figures sometimes. And I thought, How am I ever going to get any height? So I borrowed these boots that were like that, and I had my mountain sort of walking socks inside. [00:05:00] They were a size 10, but they were fantastic. They were pink. And my son said All you could see were these boots and this big egg, and they knew in the middle like you, it still didn't look any bigger. So, um, it's a challenge to actually get up there with them in the height wise, you know? But, uh, that was great. It was great. Yeah. And so what was the egg made out of? Because I can imagine that would be quite heavy. Polystyrene. It was made out of polystyrene, and then he sat it on Sort of like a helmet. Well, [00:05:30] the first time I put it on, when? When we had, um it was a technical rehearsal and a dress rehearsal. I didn't have it on a helmet. It was just strapped on. So it just sort of went like this. So So we had to do some quick alterations, and then we you learn a lot from each show. So, um, we put it into, sort of like a crash helmet. And then I had, um, sort of a piece of aluminium down my back, and we strapped it on that covered it with what I was wearing. [00:06:00] So that was it was more stable. And it felt better because then I could dance, so I'd be going to my son's workshop and putting my head gear on, sort of dancing around. How did that conversation go? When you initially approached your son, he said, Oh, yeah, he was really happy. Yeah, he said, That's great, Mom. If that makes you happy, I'll do it for you. And so each year after that, I go. No, I'm not gonna do it next year. It's too much. It's a lot of work. And so [00:06:30] and then I go, Matt, can you just do that head gear for me? I knew you'd be doing it So with the egg, Was that your idea to kind of come up with an egg type thing? Um, we sort of worked on it. And we had, um, like, brainstorming. That's one of the hardest parts I find is the headgear, because you have to, um, people have got to know what it is instantly from the audience. You can't do anything small or [00:07:00] very intricate because it just doesn't stand out. So to get something and something that may be quite, um, current and what's going on. So, um, yeah, that that's a problem. Once that's over and you've decided, you think good. Now you can start working on it. Yeah. So how does it work in terms of Are you given any ideas in terms of, uh, what you'll be wearing or the head gear or a name? Or is it No, it's entirely up to [00:07:30] you. No, you don't get any. You you had to choose who you want to be. So a blank piece of paper. And if you take your time like I do, a lot of the countries have gone. But then people make up sort of Miss heaven, or so you can have a bit of a It's not strictly a country as such. So it could be Yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be. So I think there's been this Garden of Eden and things like that. So that's been good. So who Who else have you been? I've been Miss [00:08:00] Miss a Miss China shine this year. I miss England. Can you go through and tell me the kind of head gear and costumes for those, um, miss Zaire? I was, um I had a a brown body suit made. I was an African woman, and I had a brown body suit made. And, um, my son made me a I [00:08:30] suppose the headgear would have been nearly as tall as this room with the rings, the gold rings, the neck rings of the woman and then on top, he made the most fantastic African woman's head with the earrings and even that nasal hair. And this would be, like, a couple of metres high. Yeah, it was. And, um, but the strange thing was that when we got to Wellington to do the show, um, we didn't have as such, um, a technical [00:09:00] address rehearsal with all our clothes. Uh, head gear on, and so and out the back of there wasn't very big. And I remember that there was, um, Neil. There was a guy called Neil and myself at the back, and I was trying to put this head gear on. And Stephanie, who was our dress? I said, You're not going to get on with that because it's not that high. So we were out the back and she said, You have to go on your hands and knees. So there I am on my hands [00:09:30] and knees, going on stage with her, sort of holding the head, and then I could She said, I'll tell you when you can stand. And then there was just about that much space to stand in before I went on stage. It was just so funny. It was really funny. But yeah, we got over it. Nobody knew. So, um, and then that was miss say and then, uh, miss Oh, no. I've been Miss Egypt. How could I forget? Sorry. Um, Miss [00:10:00] China. My son made me a fantastic noodle box. It was sort of about like I think it was Johnny's favourite, he said, I'm allowed to say that, um it was that big. And it was as the noodle boxes that you buy in the with all the corners and massive great noodle sticks with pieces of, um, food coming out like peas or whatever. It was amazing. And then with some Chinese writer on the outside. And then I had a Chinese [00:10:30] outfit, and it was that was amazing. That was really, really good. And then last year I was Miss Egypt and I and he made another fantastic head to and and it was incredible. I think it should have, um So how does he manufacture these? Um, he he's just he's very sort of artistic himself. So he just comes up with his eye and makes them at work. You know, he's got all the equipment to make [00:11:00] things, so he makes them at work. The noodle box. I just said to him, What shall I What shall I do? He said, I think a noodle box would be good, and then he sort of doesn't say anything about what he's doing. I keep thinking I wonder if you think is happening. It's getting nearer and nearer I go Any chance? Oh, he said Yes, it's ready. Come down and have a look. You know, you go down there and it's so exciting, Like, there's this wonderful noodle box there and it just sat on my head. Really? Well, yeah, it was really It worked it out from Prior What we didn't do previously. That wasn't successful, [00:11:30] and it just I just had a little sort of a window in it to see out. I didn't have any peripheral vision I only had. And in in the next one, Miss Egypt, I had very little vision at all. It was just no peripheral. So I had to talk to the person that was walking with me, saying, Where am I? You know, but, um, it was amazing. It was It got a really big applause when I walked out and I was just pleased for him. It wasn't about me. It was pleased for him. The work he'd done it was incredible. Does he? [00:12:00] Does he kind of mock it up in the computer and then it gets fabricated in some way? Um, that one was Yes, but that was the only one because he said it would have taken such a lot of time to if you were doing it individually, you know? And, um but that one worked really well. And then he dressed it afterwards. You know, I went into the workshop and I said he painted it red. He said, No, you have to paint it red before you put the gold. Otherwise, it doesn't sit right on there. But it looked it looked incredible. And it arrived [00:12:30] in a box at the stage door. And it was at the time there was something in the in the paper about Tutton. Carman has arrived, and it was the same day I said, See, I said, Johnny, you're in the paper and everybody is peering into this box. And it was lying in there. It looked amazing. So that travelled well to, um Well, uh, no. That one didn't go to Wellington, did it? No. It was a noodle box that went to Wellington. No, we didn't go to Wellington with that. Unfortunately, have you had any mishaps? [00:13:00] And I'm thinking about the the loading of such a large thing on your head could easily top over or No, I think he made it so well because he made armrest because I'm not that big. Um, when he puts it on, I said, that's really, really heavy. So he made, like, an arm, like a shoulder piece that you put on your sort of wiggle your way into it. And then and then there was sort of foam underneath it. So I know there was one occasion when I was [00:13:30] in it, and I felt quite claustrophobic, and I'd put it on quite early. The dresses had put it on quite early, and I was coming out quite late, and I thought, I can't breathe in here, so you have to sort of calm yourself down. But that was the only nothing else. No, the noodle box did get crushed going down to Wellington so didn't look quite the same on the stage, but no other than that. No, nothing. So it's quite important to have, um, dresses and support people that you can. It is, Yeah, because when [00:14:00] you come off, if you especially the neck, you know that I came off with you can't You can't see where you're going when you come off. So you don't want to damage any lighting or anything like that. So you just stand there, people. The dresses have been amazing. They've just taken it off immediately. So yeah, no, it's been They've been fantastic backstage people. It's always, you know, sometimes it might feel a bit chaotic, but it's it's got better and better as the years have gone on. At what point do the dresses in the backstage people come [00:14:30] into the I mean, are they right there from the get go in terms of when you're working out an idea? No, no, they come along sort of a lot later in the piece. And, um, when they can get enough dresses and then they have a sort of a headdress that will a lot of the time. The Act two boys will probably get if they need more help than you know. If we're in a changing room with other people, that's OK to help with the and things like that. And when you're on stage, all your headgear is laid out [00:15:00] so you can go to it. And then, of course, those dresses will go to the next person that needs to go on, so it works out really well, but they don't come on till later, and the backstage. People don't actually come on. Probably until the tech technical and dress rehearsals. Yeah. What was your favourite country? Egypt. I think. Because it was the whole dress was very beautiful. It was all gold and flowy. [00:15:30] And I found this, um, belt with an amazing buckle on it. So I saw that on the front and underneath it because I couldn't do the hand part of it. I just held my arms up here, so it sort of came out like a shape with all the gold draping. And it just looked I thought it looked amazing. And I had these boots that I bought for a dollar and sprayed them and put some of the material over it. So, no, I think that was I love that one. Yeah. How far out before the actual performance [00:16:00] do you start kind of thinking about the concept? Mhm. What about two months ago? Hm? Because you keep you keep thinking I'll think about that later. And then it gets nearer and nearer otherwise, but the the dress the opening number dress I'm having made at the moment. So, um, once you get things out of the way, it gets much easier if you can do it the earlier you can do it. But I know a lot of the guys they go on. I haven't made my dress yet and there's only like a week to go and they don't seem phased about [00:16:30] it. But I have to be organised, and I can really enjoy everything about it with the rehearsals and everything. What is the most enjoyable thing for you? Opening night? I love it. It's the most amazing experience I think I've ever The very first time I was so nervous and I thought, I can't do it. You know, when I was waiting with the curtain I can do, I'm gonna pass out or something. And once you once the curtain [00:17:00] goes up and you hear the people and the applause, you saying yes and you you just it's gone, the have gone. But I don't get those so much now. Now I help other people that have stage stage nerves. But, um, it's just the, uh, the applaud and you think and then it's over and you think I want to do it again? Yeah, because it's a lot of work. Just for one night which is, um, but, uh, they've never done it more than one night. So, [00:17:30] you know, that's the That's the best part of it. And it all comes together and you see people and you think, Who is that? Because the makeup and the wig and everyone just goes You look amazing. It is. It's incredible. What? What people have thought up and what they're wearing. Yeah, so just rewinding it a wee bit and looking at the kind of rehearsal stage. Can you take me through how the rehearsals work? How does that all happen? Um, well, we have a rehearsal at Grey [00:18:00] Library Hall on a Wednesday and then on a Sunday. Sometimes the venue changes depends on availability, and then we'll start off with, um there was somebody there, um, in the kitchen, a lovely guy in the kit was making cups of tea. And some of them who want to get I think score points for Miss Miss personality make a cake or something like that. And, um, and then Jonathan will either introduce [00:18:30] to the chore, introduce us to the choreographer and tell us what it's about. And then we just start going through the steps, and then he may take the boys aside and do different, um, different choreography with them, and then they could come back at the end of the evening. So that's generally how it goes and they talk about costumes, and they may fit some of the costumes that they're having made for the boys there. Um, and people talk about their shoes [00:19:00] and, you know, um, I know when I started and I looked at their shoes, I thought, I'll go throw mine away. These are far more exciting, you know, gone from gone, better and better. Do you Do you think they kind of try to outdo each other with the the kind of height Or, um, uh, not necessarily. I mean, some of them just can't wear the really high one. Some of them. I don't know how they wear them because they're huge. And I think they've probably done some damage in late later life [00:19:30] with their legs. But, um, they manage them really, really well. I mean, the way they dance on them is incredible. Yeah, I'm in awe of them. Is there any training for the boys to be girls, you know, in terms of how how people walk and how they hold themselves. With the very first year we did it, we did have somebody teaching us how to walk on the catwalk. I think he used to teach the Miss New Zealand contestants what to do. But I tell you what. The boys walk much better than the real girls on the catwalk. [00:20:00] And I used to think I'm gonna try and do what he does. You know, they were just naturals at it, but, um, no, but it's funny when sometimes, Um, I can remember when we were in the dressing room and we hadn't. I don't think some of the guys had their makeup on because they wanted to wait till the last minute to shave so they might have their dress on. And they're beard and they're sitting there sort of a bit like this. And I say a little bit of decor. And now you're a lady. You have to get your legs together, you know? Oh, yeah, I forgot. I'm a lady and they might ask you, [00:20:30] How do you do this or how do you do that? And, um but generally they do it very well. without any help. Yeah. No, no, I think they're incredible. I love it. Have you thought about being one of the boys? No, I haven't. No, because I think being a girl is far more exciting because you get to do a lot more. Yeah, um, you know, you get to have a well, II. I think I like doing the head gear. So when when you're a boy, that's, um you don't get involved [00:21:00] in that part of it. Well, that is a very important part of the show and that we couldn't do without them, But no, I prefer to To to be able to dress up and yeah, it's a really interesting idea where you've got girls being boys or girls being girls. I know it gets confusing. Some of the other interviewees have have said there's a There's a real change in their persona when [00:21:30] they change from one thing to the their stage presence. Do you find that? Um, just being yourself has to be on. Uh, you have got far more confidence. Um, like when you're on stage and you you can be somebody else when you put that wig on and when you put those eyelashes on and you go outside and people want a photo taken with you. Well, I don't. I love having that. But normally, having your photograph taken I, I don't like at all. So you do. [00:22:00] You do become somebody else for a moment, and they don't know who you are either. You know, I've been asked, Are you gay? Are you straight? Are you a male? Are you female? And it's fun because they don't know who's who or I mean. And even when I say to people, No, that actually is a male. They go, it can't possibly be. It's so beautiful, those legs And no, it is. It's definitely a male. So, um, that's that's fun as well, That part of it. So for you, what is the moment [00:22:30] where you suddenly have that a lot more confidence? Is it? Is it Is it like a As you say, putting on the eyelashes is putting on the wig. At what point does that change? I think it's when you're you're totally dressed as, um, you know, going out on stage and you've got everything on the whole works on and then and you see everybody else is all looking as glamorous as you know, with their over the top eyelashes and everything. That's when it is. It's like That's a real theatre. [00:23:00] Yeah, I think so. Can you take me from the rehearsal process into when you get into the theatre? What is that, like going from, um, Grey and and and then suddenly being in a theatre environment, It's, um it's a bit off putting because you're used to a much smaller space. Although Johnny will work it out and say, No, this is this is where the audience are. But when you actually go there, it's a lot bigger. Yeah, and and at first, the first time you did it. You [00:23:30] know, you sort of thought my goodness, and it's you feel so privileged really to be able. And I stand there And I think, you know, when would I ever be able to be on stage in the a T and you have a a dressing room? You feel so special. Yeah. So that's, um yeah, that is, um, quite a big change when you go there and and, you know, you have to adapt the steps. And so that's when when we do the tech rehearsals and the that's when we change. A few may change a few things to [00:24:00] accommodate the bigger stage. Yeah, but, um, you should get used to it. I can imagine for somebody just starting out that suddenly getting onto a stage, it would be a realisation that you're not actually doing this for a private show. It's 4 1500 people. Yeah, And I remember, um, the opening night and there was, um, Seamus, one of the new guys, and he stood next to me and he just held my hand and he said, I am just so [00:24:30] scared. I said, Seamus, it doesn't matter. You've got a long dress on. If you don't do your step right, don't worry about it. Just enjoy it. And afterwards he said, that was just so much fun. So, um, that's how I suppose. I don't know whether all the new people feel like that, but you can be. I mean, you don't want to let anybody down. You don't want to let Jonathan down in particular because he's worked so hard to to put this show on. So you you want it to be a success for him. [00:25:00] What's his directing style like, um, is very, very professional. He he lets you have a bit of fun to a certain point, and then you know that that's it. You know, enough now back to what you're meant to be doing. Um, yes, he's extremely and he's very encouraging and easy to talk to about things. Um, and I just think what he's done, the vision he's had and what it's come to it [00:25:30] is, is amazing. I think what he's done for the AIDS Foundation and how much money it's raised. He knows he is an excellent director. I think, Yeah, you know what I mean. He he just manages people really well, even if there are problems, he still manages it well, And, um but you know when he means business, you know, you know that you've got zip it up. Does he put his kind of business voice on? [00:26:00] That's enough. Of course, he's not only directing, but, uh, him and Kevin buffing them by comparing, Yeah, I know. So it's a big that must be quite interesting, seeing them in a different role on the night because they are not No, no and and um, seeing them transform into who they are and the dresses that they have made is they're amazing. Yeah, And they have a lot of fun as well [00:26:30] at the back, you know, there's a lot of fun goes on with because we're there quite early so that you're there for a long time. And, uh and some people get flowers sent to them and there's text messages going on. You know, you feel like for a day you feel very important. How long does it take to actually get prepared or prepare the the girls and boys for getting on stage? Is it quite a time? Yeah, it is. I mean, they put, uh, we we have to [00:27:00] go down to makeup in stages because it's a lot of work, and sometimes it can take an hour or so to do to put stage makeup on. So you you sit in a row, and so you have foundation. You have your eyebrows taken out and people are taking photos and joking all the time. It's being done, and it really looks so pasty white, and then you see them coming alive, you know? No, it's good, but it does take a long time. And, you know, you've got to get everything from your car into the dressing [00:27:30] room and and then you can't leave after that. So you have to make sure you've got plenty to eat and to drink. And yeah, so it is a long process. So by the time you know, you get home after the It's like you've been going for quite some time. Yeah, I think I got home about four o'clock in the morning from the last one. I don't know what my neighbours think of me, but still, And do you find that you have much support in the audience? Do you? Do you have a group of supporters? [00:28:00] Yeah, I have friends and, um, I give them. I've given them little flags. Before, when I was Miss Easter Island, I gave them ears and a little rabbits. So my son's always there and my daughter in law and my daughter and friends from work and, yeah, so it's it's really they're really keen to come. Yeah. Were they surprised the first time, or was it something that, um, I, I think, Yeah, they probably were a little bit, but, um, I've got one friend in [00:28:30] particular who's so supportive and she just says, Where are we going this week? Are we going out shopping for outfits and things, you know? And, uh, no, they're really They're really good. I think I think I'm a wee bit mad, perhaps, but I think I think it's great. I think I'm so lucky to have had the opportunity. Yeah, and I don't know what I'll do when there's no show. Well, this coming up is the last. I think it's I feel really sad, you know, because [00:29:00] it's, um it's a long time preparing, you know? I mean, we start rehearsals in May and you've got June and July, so it takes a You know, that's twice a week. So you're seeing everybody twice a week and I don't know when it's over. It's sort of like I think I mean, when it's over anyway, you feel very flat because you think, Oh, that's it. Now all the glitz and glamour gets tucked away, so but I still I mean, I always keep in touch with quite a few of the people, so when we go out for dinner or they come around [00:29:30] for dinner or something like that. So that's quite nice. Made friends that way. Um, but I don't know, there might be something else. Perhaps Johnny has gone up his sleeve. I'm not sure knowing him. He's got lots of things. But whether I'll be invited, I don't know. I have to wait and see the headgear once the once the pageant's finished. What happens to all that headgear? Well, my mesa is in my garden. She's slowly, you know, depleting. But she's been up there for a while. Um, [00:30:00] the noodle box that got put in the bin because it got it was some thin polystyrene so you could collapse it down. Miss Egypt is at my son's, uh, workshop, held up on high, and the Easter egg gradually just disintegrated in the garage. I think so. Yeah, they don't really. It's a shame they don't go anywhere else, but, um, no, that's what happens. I think that's what happens to most people in the costumes. What? What about those? [00:30:30] I still got those at home. Yeah, I don't know what I'll do with those, but after, um, putting them on a few times, though. And you're so hot in them. They don't last too long. Really? So. But it's nice there just to get out and have a look at now and again. Yeah. Hey, just finally I'm thinking that if you had an opportunity, um, on the night to address the audience, would you have any kind of, like, parting words, parting thoughts? [00:31:00] Oh, that's a hard one. That one. I think I'd just like to say to them how privileged I've felt about being in it and the people that are in it and that the people that are in it aren't, um it is not a natural talent. They've all gone up there and put themselves out there. And they might make a fool of themselves or they might. But they're not professionals. And I think sometimes I've felt that, um when we are there [00:31:30] that people think it's a it is a professional show, but we're not professional people. And, um, I think some of them think that Oh, you know, you didn't do that so well or you didn't do that so well. But, um, I think they need to know that and that it's hard to actually get up there and put yourself out there. But, um um, without the audience's support, either we wouldn't have been able to put it on. So it's wonderful that they come along and support it, too. Yeah. Mm.
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