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Well, we're coming up to a quilt panel, which is, um, we call the, um, Eve quilt. And so this is, um, the quilt that was made to commemorate, um, commemorate Eve. The quilt we've got here at the moment is quite a good, uh, example of the types of, you know in the way that illustrates the types of problems that we're coming up against with these, um, quilts [00:00:30] in terms of they're very much a product of their time in terms of the materials that have been used and the techniques that have been employed. So for a lot of the quilts you'll come across, there might be quite conventional quilt in terms of, you know, fabric pieced together to form the construction and then embellished with surface stitching. But equally there are, um, quilt squares, which, uh, have been put together using adhesive, [00:01:00] um, hot glue, cello tape pins and staples, and also the, um, materials used. You can see we've got a Barbie doll and some troll dolls and a lot of plastic, a lot of sequins, a lot of plastic components and foams which are inherently unstable and, uh, quite a challenge for us from a conservation perspective because there are limited treatment options. And once those degradation reactions [00:01:30] start, they can actually be quite rapid. So I guess everything has a life span, and what we do in the museum is we're trying to extend the life of the object. But of course, with a lot of these very contemporary items plastics and foams, it's quite fixed, and we have very little treatment options available to us. So for some of these, um, quotes we had we've had quite a discussion about what we should do and how we should approach it. [00:02:00] So I guess the key is really the photo documentation because for some components, they will degrade degrade to a state that they, um will you know, they're going to just be a hot, um that the foam expands it discolours. And they also can present problems to the, um, to the quilt in terms of the sort of release volatile. And, um might leave sticky residues and staining. So, [00:02:30] uh, yeah, so you can see that I think what's happening here. The objects conservator had a look at the troll dolls, but it looks like maybe some of the plasticizes are are starting to leach from the plastic, and so they become a little bit sticky. And so then they start to really become a bit of a magnet for soiling and dust. And Barbie is her plastic, um, is a very brittle and discoloured and yeah, so [00:03:00] it's quite, um, typical of some of the problems that we have to deal with. And also, I mean, they, as I said before, they are a product of their time. And while you've got a, um, a square over there, which has a lot of sort of, um, has been embellished with, um, stitching a lot of the quilt, um, squares feature, um, textile paint and and also because I can remember, you know, the eighties and those fabric paints. But was glitter paint and [00:03:30] the three dimensional puffer paint were really popular, and so they feature quite a lot in terms of the tributes and inscriptions that people have made. So at the time, rather than embroidering, people used those textile paints and also just felt pen and by and some of the pens and some of the inks that have been used for the inscriptions have been very light sensitive so they've actually faded. To the extent that it's you, you can't actually make out those tributes anymore. So [00:04:00] I guess the key for us is to have a really good um is to document them with photographs. And when they come in, I will do a, um I'd like a base condition report and record the current condition that they're in. And then I, um it's good for me that we have, um, a mixed lab and I can consult with other conservators. So when I need to, I'll be able to consult with the paintings conservatives about the, um the paints that have been used and also some [00:04:30] of the, you know, the problems that we are presenting with the, um, plastics and foams. But for some of it, it will just be a case of, um, you know, documenting. And we think we might at this stage what we are really just doing is I'm documenting the condition, um, and just, uh, and focusing on the storage. And so what we're doing for these is Andrew and I are surface cleaning, um, front and back of the quilts. [00:05:00] And what we use is just low powered vacuum suction, and that's just to remove loose particulate soiling because I've actually been outside and directly on the ground. So we're just doing that. And then, um, Anne Williams, our volunteer, is making the calico cover, so we're kind of constrained by space and resources and thinking about how the quilts are going to be used. So I guess you could look at a quilt piece like this and think, Well, the ideal storage [00:05:30] space would be to have it completely flat and not folded. But in terms of handling and providing access. And we've, you know, we we we have to make a compromise and we, you know, has to be able to fit on the shelving unit. So we are going to fold them and we will, um, pad around some of the elements. But some of these elements, like the Troll Dolls, because the plasticizer is starting to leach, we have to kind of provide a barrier between the fabric [00:06:00] and the troll doll, and we also might investigate using some charcoal cloth as well. That just might help and sort of, um, absorbing some of the volatile emissions that they release. So hopefully we can just it'll be about trying to slow down those, um, degradation reactions and just preventing any damage, Um, to the quilt that these present. But there might come a time, Um, and it's really hard to put a time frame on it where we [00:06:30] are faced with that decision where we have to actually remove a component from the quilt, which will be very heartfelt and a very difficult thing to do. Um, but we've we have discussed discussed it before. They were accepted into the, um, collection. And it's a problem that, you know, with contemporary collecting across the collections, not just with these quilts, but with contemporary sculpture and contemporary art and our and our textile collections as well. [00:07:00] Yeah. How long does it take you to surface clean? Uh, block? Well, um, as I can show you, what we've got that we use is that for a lot of the service cleaning that we do, we use adapter to dental aspirations. And you can imagine that, um, for a quilt of this size, it will take a really long time. So we've actually had to be quite realistic about what we can do. We've got a museum fat which has got a a bigger head, but it's got a variable suction. And, um, it [00:07:30] will take us, Um, maybe, you know, a couple of hours per quilt. This quote is going to take longer because we have to spend a little bit of time, um, documenting some of the degradation reactions that are starting to occur and also that we need to kind of work out just to go through each square. And we need we need to think about, um, incorporating something with the charcoal cloth. And we have to isolate some of these areas with some Mylar or [00:08:00] vector to prevent direct contact between the, um, troll and the, um, support it on. But at this stage, we're not doing any major, um, interventive remedial conservation. Um, it just really about stabilising it for storage. And then if it was to go for some of these cos if they were, um, to be, I guess if they're to be viewed, as they were intended to be, which I think they were just laid out flat on the ground, they'll be fine. But if someone [00:08:30] said well, actually, we want to put them on the wall, then as a conservator will have to come along and reassess that, because they you know, they has to be structurally intact and stable enough to support the weight of the quilt. And then all you would have to consider all these. You know, you see, do see some areas where there's some failed stitching and, um, areas where there might be some stitched support work or some remedial, um, conservation may be required, but that would be dependent on [00:09:00] I guess, what the requirements are. But at this stage, it's more about we just want to, um, surface, clean them to remove their loose, particular soiling document, the condition that they're in and the materials that they're made of. So that just will just to be aware of any, um, long term problems, you might have and, um, have them stored in a way that, you know, it's not gonna cause damage and that they'll be, you know, they can actually, when they bring them out on [00:09:30] their nice calico covers are actually quite easy to handle. And, um, yeah, I mean, usually with the quilts we roll because we don't like folding things because we don't like creases because it's, you know, it's the idea that that's where it will fracture along a fold line. But we can't with these because we can't roll. Um, the the quilts, if they've got these three dimensional, um, [00:10:00] elements, they don't they don't want to roll. I mean, would we might snap Barbie. Um, we're just folding, you know, along the joints. So we're trying to avoid any fold lines across the panels, and, um, so that you'll see that our storage cover actually conforms to the size of one of these panels you've got, um, a fold We originally that they have been folded here. Do you [00:10:30] have some sort of process that you allow that to ease out? Well, sometimes it will ease out, Um, just sitting flat, and sometimes we do, um, we can kind of relax the crisis, and we with sort of a little bit of, um um Well, I was gonna say moisture, but it's not wet moisture and weights and things, but, you know, you do need to be careful of dye, bleed and all that sort of thing as well. [00:11:00] So we're not going to do that at this stage and because, you know they've each, um, section has been made by different people. There are a lot of different tensions happening within the quilt. So a lot of these creases and things can't be completely eased. You sometimes just have to accept that's how it is. And that's how it wants to be. And of course, there might be areas where it will fracture at some point. But, [00:11:30] um, you know these things, you know, everything has a life and what they're trying to extend their life. I guess when you were saying about writing degradation reports on on various parts of the quilt, what kind of things are you looking for? Um, I guess we, um well, I, I guess this is a good example Here is that you can kind of you can see that this troll doll with the plastic that I think what's happening [00:12:00] is that the plasticizer is leaching from the plastic, and so it becomes a little bit sticky, and you can see how, um, it just sort of all the dust and soiling products. I don't we'll have to. We might have another look at that, but because it might not actually just be soiling products it might actually be, um, part of a degradation reaction that's happened. It's just come out this morning, so we haven't had a really good look, but also Barbie. I mean, you know that Barbies can, um, the type [00:12:30] of plastics that they they're made from and, um, haven't been quite a fan of Barbie growing up. Um, you can see that the you can just see that there's been some colour change and the plastic off her arms. They're getting a little bit cloudy and white in areas. And if I, you know, I will give it a little prod and it will have sort of a quite a brittle feel. I suspect about that. And so we just need to move our way [00:13:00] through each, um, section of the quilt and just sort of identify these problems as well. But we also look at things like, you know, what the tributes and the inscriptions have been made of. I mean, here is this is quite topical. It's been there's quite a bit of, um, glue, um, residue, because that's what they've chosen to apply their, um, styles with. And here we are. There it is. There's the, [00:13:30] uh, the glitter paint. And you can see that for some of us, it's interesting for some of the, um, that three dimensional puff paint. There has been, um, quite a colour change that has faded and it cracks and it flakes as well. And, um, yeah, did the photo transfer take a special, um, technique just to conserve them or [00:14:00] Yeah, no, I think that we're not going to, um, do anything in particular. But also, I guess, um the other important, uh, factor is that a lot of the, um, dyes and banks and, like the of tributes are very, um, very sensitive to fading, so that for some panels, the the tributes are completely have faded to the extent that you can't [00:14:30] actually make them out. So it will be important for us to monitor the, um, any colour change and fading, and we will will from now. Although we don't know what the, um illumination history of was for this object. Now that it's in the museum, we do actually record our light levels, and we actually keep a record of the light exposure that it will have while it's in the museum. It's always difficult when objects. Come on. Because you don't know. You know how much light exposure [00:15:00] that they have had. But we do know that we need to kind of be aware of about some of the inks and paints. And I guess the the transfers that have been used because they will be prone to some fading, but it can vary quite a lot. It's quite interesting, really. That, um, you know, you don't always know what people have used and what it's been applied to. Um, [00:15:30] I guess over a period of time, you can see that, you know, adhesives, um yellow, dark and and discolour so they can actually become a little bit unsightly. This isn't too bad. So your condition reports. Are they quite, uh, extensive? I'm just thinking, Like, with this one here, we've got all these little stars. Do you have to note, you know, how how the stars are when they first come into the museum? Well, what we will do, because there is that, you know, they're all large works is probably that I know I'm not going to record every [00:16:00] single loss that occurs on here. But I will say that there are some losses and because it's been photographed, it will be clear. And the photo so that provides our photo documentation is actually is an essential part of the Russian report. Because I think I also find that if you write a lot which will be easy to do with these, it doesn't mean that people necessarily read it. And so you, um [00:16:30] Yeah, and I guess other conservatives, on the whole will read it and, uh, will have seen this type of damage and this type of condition. So when you sort of mention that everyone's kind of on the same plane and knows what you're talking about and the language that you use, you don't have to Fortunately, mention every single star. But if it was going out online will be photographed again. And I might But, um, I'd probably just take it, you know, off we will just take a photograph [00:17:00] of it. And if there's areas of concern, we will do like a overlay and just sort of draw it on and highlight it. But that's a really good way of us. Um, sort of monitoring the ongoing condition of these items is the photo documentation, because that's what we have. Um, Well, while we have records on our database and all the images are on there as well in conservation, we also have hard copy files as well. So, um [00:17:30] yeah. So whenever this comes out, it will be, um, assessed against that base report on those base. Um, you know that those initial, um, photographs that were done, What's it like working on something like this? I found that they have been, um, very emotional. And it's, um I don't think there's any, you know, even though we see [00:18:00] it work on amazing things. And I just you know, I'm just so lucky that with these pieces, I don't think that nothing has had the effect has affected me personally in such a way as these. Quil. I think the first few times I had them out, I just couldn't stop crying. And it's I'm better now. But sometimes I You know how you have to distance yourself and step away from it a little bit, but they'll still come across something that will just kind of, um, connect [00:18:30] with you, and it just starts you off again. So, um yeah, and so and I know There's a couple of quilts that really get me going that I just just have to accept. That's what's gonna happen when I'm working with them. I just have to have my tissues handy. You know, every everyone's really supportive and understands because everyone has a similar response to them. I think so. You can't divorce yourself from us, But yeah, there's just a lot of, um, love and heartache and you really feel [00:19:00] it. And I think the the the panels that have really spoken to me I love when you know the mothers have done things. And as a mom to a little one, you know, you see the pictures of the little boys and you think, Oh, my gosh, um starts you off There's just so much love on each panel that you just really feel it. They gonna make me start, Yeah, take my breath away and, you know, having read so much about the panels, But to see them [00:19:30] in the flesh and real is is, is breathtaking. Um, a group of us went to Auckland to assess the, um, the quilts and we're in a church hall and I'd have to say by the end of the day, and I knew I was going to be a wreck. So I took all my boxes of tissues, but I went through them because we're in the church hall and they have really horrible toilet paper on the bathrooms. And so my nose was the end of the day. Was I had this sort of, um, reindeer, red nose and poached. Yeah, guys, it was just terrible, [00:20:00] but, um, but at the end of that, we went, had a little bit of time in the cathedral, and it was just really nice to kind of spend that time together in the cathedral and just kind of take a moment because a whole day of I, you know, I found it. Um, it was it was really, really, really tough, actually. Yeah. Have you had any surprising discoveries? [00:20:30] I discovered a, um, a panel that was made as a tribute to someone that I knew, Not particularly well, but it was actually it was really nice to see Arthur's panel. Um and I didn't know him well, but he was my aunt's hairdresser, and he had been really good to me when I was young at a family wedding, and we had a lot of fun. And there's some great photos of Arthur and I together. And he was, um, yeah, so it [00:21:00] was actually, really it was. It was nice to see Arthur's panel. And, of course, his was the most challenging panel from a conservation perspective. And I thought that would be just That's just typical for, um, for for Art Arthur's panel to feature a big, crazy headdress made out of kind of degrading foam. Huge. So it was I went great. Thanks. [00:21:30] So, yeah. So how does that work when you maybe have a panel and a block of eight that is degrading more than the others? How do you protect the other ones? Well, I think, um, what we're going to do with the Troll dolls is we are kind of trying. We'll try and sort of, um, incorporate a barrier between the troll dolls and the ground fabric that they're on. And we will also think that we might, [00:22:00] um, try and do something with some, um, activated charcoal cloth. So on that panel. So we need to just sort of spend a little bit of time thinking about how we're going to actually do that. And I'll probably work in with the, um, objects conservator, because she's sort of comes across this sort of problem on quite a regular basis, and so we'll just have to kind of have a think and work something out. So while this morning, I thought I will be able to surface clean this in a couple of hours that this particular panel [00:22:30] is going to take a little bit more time. It's probably gonna take, um, yeah, the just the rest of the day to really to work out to surface cleaner, to document it and to work out how what we should do with those plastic dolls. I think that we might actually, um, surface clean them And, um so that everything's always photographed before, during and after treatment and so that, you know, um, we'll be able to sort of monitor, um, [00:23:00] the the degradation reactions, I guess. But I am aware that for some things, that can be really, really rapid. So how do how do you photograph something so large? But, uh, we do have a, um, a photography department, and they have been able to, um to to to photograph it and you, you might like to talk to them about it. I think they've got a system whereby they can actually have it down flat in the studio, [00:23:30] and then they can go up onto the towards the ceiling and do it overall. Or they might have done smaller sections and then just kind of pieced it together afterwards. So I'm not sure how they've actually done it this time. But for me, since those overall photos have been done, I will just probably just do some detail images of the areas that are of interest and concern to us. It's so large. How do you get to the centre? To start [00:24:00] we have to do is because I really want to, um, see between the front and the back. So we've got it on a large table and there'll be two of us is that we just have to, um, you know, we just kind of have to pay out to fold and just fold it over and then do that section and then section by section. So sometimes with things that you can are flat and large that you want to, um, clean, you can sort of roll them onto a roll and work as [00:24:30] you go and then roll the bit and then do that section. Um, so it's best to adapt that process, really. But we can get around most sides of the table, and you can do as far as your arm can stretch really the night before. What about something like with Barbie's legs kind of sticking up? Do you actually in storage? Do you put her legs down? Do you move? The object is that we will just have a look at Barbie and see how she's feeling how she wants to rest. So if [00:25:00] it makes sense for us to put her legs down to the resting flat, we will do that. But if it's proved to be, that's because, um, the plastics, um, the Plasticide is leached and it's become brittle and stuff. I'm not going to move Barbie's legs, and I will just I'll just pick around her so that she's kind of supported, Um, and we just just have to accommodate her as she is. So there are some elements here that we just have to kind of cover [00:25:30] and pack out if we get the, um the odd Quil, which is, you know, quite flat and has been pieced in a quite conventional manner. So it's just a stitched embellishment. We can, um, we're just, um, cover interleaving with and then just folding them and they're going in the calico covers. But we've decided on the calico, the unbleached calico rather than the the because it's actually I think it's going to, um, [00:26:00] stand up better. You know, the the is very slippery and difficult to handle with the size of them. And, um, if they're taken on to the you know, the covers, it all kind of goes together in a quite a neat package. So if someone's not familiar with the handing requirements and you know the ti ti after a couple of uses looks, um, untidy. Um so those covers with their ties, there's no ties [00:26:30] to get lost everything all together. It's quite straightforward. In terms of that, you just it's like an envelope that you unfold, and then you can, um so I think they'll well, I hope they'll prove to be quite a useful thing in terms of storage and having to if they need to be transported within the museum. If they were to go to another institution, would would do something a bit different. But if they needed to be, um, moved within the museum for people to look at the you know, I think [00:27:00] that should be, um should work well and the size fits between doors and, you know, say all those handling requirements you need to think about, and if they get a bit grubby, they can go on the washing machine now, So that's that's good. But it's important for me that they that they look, that that they're important. And I guess for lots of us, you know, we often show our love for things with when we do baking [00:27:30] for people. And for I think, for sometimes for conservators and volunteers here working with the textiles or or for me, for me, the way of showing love for something is to have it looking stored. And um, yeah, I think you know, I, I It's important for me that they have a a good storage solution and that it looks good and it looks like people are caring for us. I think it's nice to see the love [00:28:00] that's continued on, but it's not treated as an object. It's more than that. And the respect that is shown to the course is so important. Yeah, II, I Well, I think that's the nature of the object. Is that isn't it really? But, um um, marriage. This is, um, Anne Williams, who is one of our great treasures here at te Papa, who has worked as a volunteer at conservation [00:28:30] for 33 years. And we I just so fortunate and lucky to have Anne and Anne's been helping me with the, um, the AIDS Quilt project by making all the covers the car for the storage of the quilt. So and do you want to just talk a little bit about what we've been doing with the, um, with the quilt cover? Uh, yes. When we looked at the quilts, uh, we realised that, um, the design had to be something that could be worked by anyone that wanted to look [00:29:00] at them. And so rather than make a bag, which was difficult to put the quilts in because they are quite large and heavy, uh, we decided to, uh, make a sheet effect, uh, folding the sides in and then folding the other two sides in so that the corners were all protected and covered, um, and then tied with tide. So tie so that they would hold together. Um, anybody that looks at them can put them back the same way as they found them. [00:29:30] And they are protected because we have left the tie underneath, uh, to protect them as well. So it's been quite a job. We've had the mess of calico that's needed to be washed and, um, irons, and it's actually quite a demanding job making these covers. Uh, the quilts themselves in their folded, uh, state have been measured so that, uh, uh, the covers themselves that each particular one, [00:30:00] we have, uh, ensured that, uh, they're neatly done so that I think it helps when people, uh, handle and look at these things that they will take particular care. Uh, they are, uh, not exactly fragile. But if they are, uh, mishandled, uh, we're not going to have them for very long. It's a way of, um I said it was a little bit of our way of showing love for these textiles that are that [00:30:30] come into the collection. Is that you always have them looking. All your storage boxes and supports are really beautifully made and really well executed. These ones, uh, these quilts, in particular are special because, uh, they memory quilts and their memory memory quilts for, uh, a very special reason. Um, and we can be thankful now that, uh, life for people who are suffering in this particular way is much [00:31:00] easier. And the prognosis is much better than it was in these early days when there was much sadness and and discrimination. Yes. Had you come across the quilt before? No, I hadn't. I I had. I had known these quilts existed, but I hadn't seen any of them at all. Um, I knew that, um, they have been done with people who are not necessary. Uh, needle workers or even [00:31:30] stitches or sewers. Um, but they're quite extraordinary. What was your reaction when you first saw them? Um, this is the only one that I've seen opened. And my reaction is that for something that's so sad, they are extremely colourful and and very pleasant to look at. So do you delve much into the stories behind the panels? Do you do research into that um, at this stage, [00:32:00] I'm I'm not. I just don't have the, um, the time to do it, But our curatorial, um, team Will will probably do more of that. Um, you know, sometimes for a treatment you do need to do if you're going to, um, a remedial treatment or an interventive treatment. It's often at that point that you need to do a lot of more more in depth research on your object. But at this stage, it's really about just, um we're [00:32:30] just focusing on having them, um, working on the storage requirements and the and the that base, um, condition report. Really? And when you say remedial treatment, what does that involve that if we were if you wanted to, um, intervene with the objects and forms of it needed to have, um, stitch support. So the be needed to if there were some loose elements and we needed to secure them. So if there was some, there was some, um, beating or, um, a troll. [00:33:00] I was about to fall off, and we actually had to stitch it back on, or there's some failed stitching or the supports got a tear and for it to be displayed that needs to be stabilised then. That's what I consider to be an interventive treatment. If we, um, have to, um And even if we have to remove, uh, if there was some unsightly, um, staining or soiling? Um, do [00:33:30] you have anything like the, um, aids quilt and papas collections in terms of, um, What it was there for? What? It, um, off the top of my head. I can't think of anything. That's I think the the the this, you know, the quilt is actually quite unique, and it really is a product of its time. And, um, but, I mean, we do have lots of things in the collection that do present, um um, terms, [00:34:00] um, are a a conservation challenge in terms of the materials that they're using. So the problems that we're, um, that these quilts of illustrate is not unique to the quilts that's, you know, across the collections. Really? I think the, um, history collection just acquired some Barbie dolls. So it's, um it's kind of a very real concern to the wider [00:34:30] museum community as well. I mean, there's actually, um, you know, these conservation conferences dedicated to the subject of modern materials and what we're going to do with these degrading foams and plastics. It's actually quite interesting about within, um, the conservation community. There's not always an agreement about what the the best approach is to do, and that's actually really interesting. I was at one conference where you know all those fabulous designer chairs from the fifties sixties [00:35:00] and seventies with the moulded foam and and plastics. They are presenting quite a problem in a lot of a lot of museums. And there are groups of people that say, You know, there's, You know, one solution would be, well, let's just remove the foam and replace it with a more, um, stable archival foam. But as soon as you have done that, it's not the, um, the chair that it was. And so some people actually believe Well, actually, someone [00:35:30] in the museum community with that chair has to leave it as it is. So we have. Even if it is, the foam degrades and it goes a little bit like hokey pokey sometimes, and so it will swell. And then all your seams and your upholstery split so that it becomes quite distorted. Um, it it does. It becomes a lot like sometimes like that hokey poke when you leave it out on the kitchen bench sort of sticky and oozy. And, um so you know, you know what? What should you do or the one thought is that you remove [00:36:00] the foam, and one thought is actually important for us to have a record of the object as it is with no intervention as such. And we can look at these things we can do about our environment to kind of slow down those, um, degradation reactions. So, um, if we can reduce slight exposure and keep our temperature quite low and avoid extreme fluctuations and, um, relative humidity and temperature, we might be able [00:36:30] to slow them down. But I think that they do get to a point where even with all those things, that the reactions, you know, that reaction is very rapid. So we have had things in the collection we had a couple of years ago, a hat that was made out of plastic bags and it came in, and within a year, it's had really started to to grey, it sort of looks like a head da draught. And now It's probably just a pile of [00:37:00] white plastic flakes, and it wasn't accepted into the collection, but it was really interesting to kind of watch that and see what happened. It was it was really rapid. So given the best care in the world, how long do you think these will survive? I think it's really difficult to put a time frame on because, you know, um but I guess it'll be, you know, be interesting to see, But I, I just wouldn't like to [00:37:30] Wouldn't like to say really. But, um, the other thing is that with a lot of, um, materials now and people are concerned about land film So, you know, artists that are using, um, found objects or plastic bottles and plastic bags, You know, they often have additives, um, added to them to design to accelerate that degradation reaction because people are concerned about landfill. [00:38:00] So I know that they've been putting things like starch additives into some of the plastics just to kind of because, you know, that sounds like it would be a good idea. But if you're an artist and you choose to use those materials, they will have a a fixed life span.
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