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Good afternoon. It's great to see you all here. A user that could make it. And I gather that you obviously have seen the exhibition. Um, it was an honour to be here to do the launch of the exhibition with my favourite friend Georgina. And I can honestly say the Carmen era the Lost Generation was absolutely fantastic and I I just wanna, um I think what we're basically here to do this afternoon is to relate a few stories of that we can remember from our time at Carmen's Coffee Lounge. And I'm sure Georgina has got a few stories. And Kayla and of course, [00:00:30] um, Chanel as well. Um, for me, it started many, many years ago, um, as, um a AAA brief, quick history II. I was fortunate to have a documentary done about me, um, by the former television school, and it was called from the Hutt Valley, took away and, um, humble beginnings, uh, left home at a very, very early age and hit Wellington and, uh, got a job working in, uh, the oaks, the Royal Oak Hotel, which is synonymous history in Wellington. And of course, that's, um, where [00:01:00] I first met Georgina. And, um, I was working up in the, uh, oaks coffee shop in the Royal Oak Hotel. Georgina was the night porter, and we had some fun times there. And, of course, this was the times The early days when, um, 10 o'clock closing was around in those days and we'd all scarf off home. Georgina and I were fanning up on Buller Street with our dear friend R on McKenzie, who also he worked at the club exotic. He was the one of the male dancers up there, and we'd we'd leave, we'd leave work, we'd race home, throw on some drag, and then we'd go up to Buller Street, [00:01:30] throw on some drag, and then we'd hit down and we'd go and hit all the clubs we'd go to, like, the sunset we'd go down to, um uh, Ali bars the cave. Um, and of course, inevitably would always end up at Carmen's coffee lounge. Um, and, um, I never thought that all these years later, um, I'd be standing here talking about a bit of history, um, a part of our history that made us all very, very street wise. Um, I met some amazing people would would be one of them a few years [00:02:00] later. Um, but some amazing afternoon. Come on. And, darling, we're just starting, baby, sit down, pull up and feel and relax. Um, uh, I met him at Carmen's Coffee Lounge was just the most outs. And when you were young and naive, we were 16 17 and and, um, we'd throw our drag and we thought we were shit hot. We were hot stuff, you know, We'd go to the bars and clubs and drag. Then we'd end down at Carmen's and the famous toasted sandwiches. And, of course, if you wanted a little bourbon or a little whiskey would come out in the teapot with the car was really [00:02:30] nice and magic. And of course, in those days we were all cracking it to earn a living. None of us had really jobs. We were working in the oaks. We weren't earning a top dollar. Then it was, you know, pretty poor money, working in a coffee shop and as a night. But we'd go down there and, um, Carmen always made us feel extremely welcome. The younger you were should take you under her wing and look after you and it would be sitting down there and dragged. Should have a little coffee cup system. We should have a coffee cup upside down with a handle facing right mean that the client would like a transgender. Or if [00:03:00] it was standing up with a handle facing the opposite direction. He wanted a AAA female impersonator with a Penis. You know, that sort of code thing was happening. It was magic. And Carmen would quite often walk up to you and say, Excuse me, darling, I think there's a gentleman over there would like to see you. So you'd go, You'd go and sit down at the table with the with the gentleman and have coffee with them. More nice little bourbon or something out of a teapot. It was absolutely fantastic. And then you'd strike up your deal and you'd make the money for the night. That's how we paid our rent in those days. It was fantastic. There was [00:03:30] so many, many characters that we enjoyed working at Carmen's coffee lounge. Um, I think that there was, uh, one I call the most amazing Lola, Um, who was, uh, worked. And Lola was a little, um without being disrespectful A little bit dipsy. Um, but, um, she thought she was glamorous. She was fantastic. And she should be in the kitchen and she'd have a she'd be doing the dishes and she'd have her her her long gloves on, and she'd have her rubber gloves over her normal gloves while she's doing the dishes. But she'd have all her rings on the outside of the rubber [00:04:00] gloves so everybody else could still see her jewellery. So Lola was an amazing character. She was, um, as I said, she did the dishes with the little rubber gloves on and her jewellery on the outside. And, um, every in the in the old days, up in, um to, uh, to street where now where the, um the warehouse stationery is that used to be the old milk treatment station. And, uh, where the milk was bottled and delivered around to the various places and milk trucks would come and go. And, of course, every morning [00:04:30] at two o'clock in the morning would go go down to the milk treatment and pick up the milk for the cafe. So Lola was one of those old wicker baskets, you know, one of the little old ladies used the wicker baskets on the trolley. Lola would wheel it out there at two o'clock in the morning and she'd be going down and, of course, then the rubbish truck would come down the road. She give him a little way, he'd stop and pull over and they live around back behind the building, and she'd blow him off there, and then she jump in the jump on, you know, a little trolley and wander off back down the road. And, uh, the rubbish man would just jump in his truck. [00:05:00] He had his fear. You'd only drive off. Lola was a character. I managed to see Lola in Auckland a few years ago, and she's still, um, working the streets up in road. And, um, I. I don't know how old would Lola be now to be easily, but I mean, she's she's worked that street so much. Um, she's got this fabulous pair of little heels with fabric on the on the shoes, but she's walked that street so much she's worn the heels down, and all the fabric on the on the hill is [00:05:30] rolling up the hill. The hill gets worn down more rolls up, rolls up further up the hill. Uh uh, up the hill. So Lola was one of the characters there. And, of course, um, we were just talking with Kayla and and Chanel, um, earlier on at the front, we talk talking about lorina, um, another one of the transgender who who was, uh, always a famous, um, in Carmen's cocky lounge. She had, um, very much like Angelica Houston, that black hair with the long black hair, you know, And, um, she had the most amazing [00:06:00] nose, and we always used to say, I'm sure they are. I was thinking, but we always used to think that we used to call a clutch, and it should give you an idea. They had designed the Mount Rupe ski slope of Lorena's nose like sweeping, but she was stunning. She was an absolutely amazing character, and she always had this thing about, you know, you know a girl and she'd flick her hair. And this long black, angelic, no hair would swing around and hit her in [00:06:30] the face on the other side. Um, and and she was well known for that very, very well known for that flick. And if you talk to anybody about Lorena and they'll always say to you, Lorena Oh, you girl. And remember that hair So look, she'd go away. She's now living over in Featherston, and I actually recently downloaded a photo of her, and she hasn't aged a bit. She absolutely still looks bloody fantastic. Um, we used to have some amazing types in Carmen. Um, she did look after us. Amazingly, Um, I never thought, you know, years and years later. I never honestly predicted [00:07:00] myself to be here talking about this today. Um, Carmen and her girls made us all very, very streetwise and with us being the young members of the gay community and we thought we were having a ball dressing a drag and having a great time. You know, um, Nicole Dell, the fabulous Nicole Deval is still in Auckland Herald And Nico now she's well into her seventies seventies, 76 Marie. Thank you, Nicole. And, uh, Nicole was a of course, moved to Auckland eventually. And, um, of [00:07:30] course was one of the headlining acts along with Georgina for the Fabulous Bloomers Review, which was performing at Alfie's nightclub in Auckland and of course. Then they would come down to Wellington to the down here and do shows. Well, at one part, there was a bunch of us young boys that were all doing the drain together, and we were living in, um, an apartment block down by the Basin Reserve. It's now called Zena Apartments, but in those days it used to be, um, the sea four flats, and we have a top level flat there, and we overlooked the Basin Reserve. So we got to watch all the cricket and the rugby and everything that was happening there for free. It was amazing when Nicole [00:08:00] came down, she was down here and she was working with for for quite some time down here. She said, Oh, girl, I need a place to stay and we're going on. We've got a spare room. So we put the up in the, um, in the single room, and I've got to say she's probably one of the few transgender girls that I know that I have every electrical appliance going in the house at once. She'd be sitting there. She'd have the ironing board going, the ironing iron plug done. She'd be ironing away doing something. She'd have heated rollers in her hair. She did have another heated rollers on her head, Piece [00:08:30] on a wing block going fag, hanging out the mouth, talking on the phone, ironing away, doing all this stuff. And, uh, every electrical appliance in the house was going. And then when she walked out, she was Jerry Hall's version of, um, uh, Jerry Hall. She was absolutely stunning. She had a regular client that she used to go out and have relationships with, and he was working with and, um, in payment every night, she'd come home and she'd have another ghetto blaster on her shoulder. Here, girls. Look, I've got another one tonight, you know, Block them [00:09:00] down there. We had we had Ghetto Blaster coming out of our ass. She was great. And we learned a lot from Mackay. I remember one particular night we'd all been sitting around and we all got pretty stoned, You know, Nicole said I'm going. I'm going to bed. I'm fucking knackered. She was in there. She just passed out of sleep, and we were all bloody kids, and we were having fun. And you know, that old thing about You know, if you put somebody's hand in the bowl of water, they're gonna piss the deer. We all stuck in there and the guy was out. Hang out. We got this pot of boiling not boiling, but more water. We stuck it under [00:09:30] her hand, and we're all sitting around there Googling, Googling, Googling, waiting for her to piss the dead, and all of a sudden she jump out of this. We all fucking fled out of the room. It was amazing. But these are some of the fun times we had with these with these girls, they were truly, truly amazing. And they they taught us how to be street wise. And if you did something wrong, you got the And if you got the slap, you know, you did something wrong and you learn from that slap. Um, they were amazing girls. Absolutely fantastic times. Um, there was Lorena. [00:10:00] There was Lola. Chanel was there in those days. We were all bloody doing the street. We were all trying to earn a bloody quid. It was an amazing time in our life. III I look back and I think, um what an uh, an amazing time. I had and I would never change for one minute any of my life. I. I have no regrets for where I've come from, what I've done or where I've ended up. Um and I and I think it's just through the tenacity of learning from these these girls, these amazing girls that made us streetwise. They gave us They put [00:10:30] us on the right path in in in our life, and I firmly believe that it hadn't been for Carmen and all of those girls. We probably as a gay community wouldn't be where we are today. And if you look back to the times when Carmen would walk down Wall Street and she had been fucking amazing knockers out there and the police couldn't do anything about it because legally she was still classed as a man. And it wasn't illegal for a man to walk down the street topless, so they couldn't do anything about it. And I think that's what made Carmen gave her the notoriety to who she was [00:11:00] and and gave her that path. People loved it because she didn't. She had the audacity to do it and know that she can get away with It was absolutely fantastic. Many years later. Of course, we did Carmen's, um, 70th birthday party. And I think I mentioned this at the opening of the, um, exhibition. And, uh, we didn't tell Carmen, but we we, um for her, it was her 70th birthday. But it was actually her 70th birthday and celebrity roast. And over the months of build up, we we'd managed to go through and get all these people from Nicole [00:11:30] came down from Auckland. A lot of the show girls came down from Auckland. Um, Natasha, that was Natasha. Natasha is another one. She she was this big Samoan drag queen. Absolutely amazing. She used to chase me around cars. Fuck you run in horror. Um, many years later, we became really, really good friends. She was absolutely amazing. It was sad that we'd been overseas. And we got back and, um, found out that had passed away. And it was just, um I'm so glad that [00:12:00] after all those times of she used to scare the shit out of me, um, that we actually got to go and spend some time with her. Um, Scott. And over in Auckland, we I think we run in Auckland at the, um Oh, I can't remember the name of the hotel, but it was the Golden Stiletto awards. Um, it was the, um, Sheridan Sheridan later, and Natasha is there. She says to us, um, girl, what are you doing? So we're gonna go out clubbing after the shit She come back to my place. She said, We'll go back there. She said, we smoke. She said you'll meet my husband. She said, we'll all go out. [00:12:30] So we jumped into this taxi. She got this taxi and she got an Asian taxi driver. This was at the she on the top of Kay Road there, you know, And she drove all the way to bloody grave to her place. And she says to the tax driver, Now you sit there and you don't go and you wait till I come out. Otherwise you don't get paid and we've taken us back into town. So we've been inside. She had this amazing husband. He was He was lying up in bed. She said, Oh, I just put me home. I'm gonna have a smoke. So we sat down and had a smoke with a boyfriend and he was hot. She had taste [00:13:00] that good. And, uh, we're sitting there and then she goes into a drawer and she started pulling out $100 notes. And she's going here, darling, $100 for you for drinks and $100 for you to go to Tasha. If we don't need your money, darling, we've got our own. She goes all right, then. Then she she puts all the money back in her pocket. We go back out. Of course. The Asian taxi driver is still sitting there. And so where we going? So we went to AAA Gay. A gay bar in Auckland. Um, the one that burned down, um, flesh. [00:13:30] Thank you. We went into flesh, and Natasha is a bit of a shark on the pool table. We didn't know this, but she says to darling, she said, I'll get the first round and she said, You go and set up the pool table. OK, so and I go and set up the pool table. Next minute. There's three waiters coming out with a tray with 12 bourbon and Cokes on each tray. I got the first round and you wouldn't take my money. So I got the drinks. She was fantastic. So it was really hard. Really, really hard for us when we found out Matt had died. Um, [00:14:00] an amazing An amazing, amazing transgender woman. Absolutely beautiful. There were many characters of those days that, um we're outstanding. And I as I said before, I firmly believe they they paved the way for us. Um, we've got Margie. I see Mars here. I'm sure we might have to drag you up again. You might be able to swing a few stories for us. Darling, we like that, um I. I think that's just as I was saying. The the amazing thing was doing [00:14:30] Carmen's, um, seventh birthday party and doing the celebrity roast. And we managed to track down Carmen quite often, but she never had the licence. So she quite often would get busted for selling illegal alcohol without a licence. And we actually managed to get the two cops that regularly busted her, um, at Carmen's Coffee lounge, and we brought them to Wellington. Um, we managed to get them to pay for their own air fares up and to pay for their own tickets to the function and it was them that presented her that fabulous [00:15:00] policeman's helmet, which is covered in pink feather. Bowers and, um, the gallery were very lucky to be able to get that from the museum. And, um, the feather bars had gone, But I see they actually managed to put the pink feathers back around it again. And I think that's how it should remain. And when he goes back to the museum, I think they should leave those pink ribbons on there, because that was the gift that she was given. And they need to look after that and keep them for prosperity. Um, of course, Many years later, Carmen moved on. She did the balcony, um, down in Victoria, where the National Library is, [00:15:30] uh, the one that's currently closed through with whatever. Um, Carmen started that there, Um, more girls again, the late, fabulous gypsy. And we used to go up to Carmen. She'd let us all in. She'd never judge us, and we'd sit. The other girls would entertain us of all their shows. And And you, of course, you get all the, um, the rugby yo that wanted to go out there and, you know, look at the fucking circus, you know, Let's go and see these trannies and all that gypsy. There's no one to argue with. And if you went up to the balcony, the stairs were like this. You walked [00:16:00] in up this massive line of stairs. And there these two rly yobo that were in the in the balcony one night, the cars cars there and they started heckling the girls gypsy just walked over. Excuse me, gentlemen. She grabbed them both by the scruff of the neck, one in each hand, dragged them to the top of the stairs and just went And all you could see was these two bodies rolling down the stairs. Nobody fucked the gypsy. Nobody fucked with Gypsy. She's absolutely fantastic. There are so many, many characters. Um, I probably will think [00:16:30] a little bit more of some of them later on, but right now I'm gonna hand you over to Georgino because she's got a few stories that she'd like to tell you. As a child, we haven't got enough time to go through all of them. So? So the common era really was from the late 19 fifties, um, through until the 19 eighties. Um when Carmen left New Zealand in about 81 to go and live in Australia [00:17:00] more permanently than here. So in the late 19 fifties, she was, I guess, an exotic dancer. And she was certainly one of the first transgenders who worked in a strip club. Uh, it was either the San Francisco or the crazy horse or something on K Road in Auckland. And the owner of the place was a guy called Wally Martin and Wally, um allowed, um, Carmen to perform on stage in those days. Carmen was really [00:17:30] stunning. Very, very slim. And she was an exotic dancer. Um, after she did her time, um, up on K Road there with Wally Martin in the clubs there she went to Australia and continued her her exotic dancing, um, and called herself Kiwi Carmen. Um, in those days, she would dance with snakes. This is what I mean by an exotic dancer and, um, and other sort of paraphernalia like that. [00:18:00] She, of course, had modelled her image her style of, um, the golden years of Hollywood, particularly the stars, uh, the the Marda, um, Carmen Marda and, um, and another fabulous female stars of the golden age of movies. And, um and so she fashioned herself to look a little bit outstanding as she got older and became a trademark. [00:18:30] Um, come and worked over in in Sydney and in Australia for quite a while, And, um, before she came back here to establish, um, what became, um, her well known businesses here in Wellington. Come, of course, from, um, originally and, uh, where she was born. She was very close to her mother and, um, and had a always up until she passed away very close to her car and being Maori. Of course, she [00:19:00] always had a connection to her, her Maori to and she carried that on even when she was living in Australia, more full time. A little kaha group, you know, got together, um, over there. And there's some fabulous photos of Carmen and full, um, traditional Maori regalia with only a touch that Carmen could add. That probably wasn't I like high hair and, um, and things that glitter. Um, Carmen's peak of fame really [00:19:30] grew during the sixties when she opened the coffee lounge down here in Wellington and things like that and really peaked. Oh, right from the late sixties through until the seventies. And and the eighties, Um, or the early eighties, at least. Anyhow, um, at the height of her fame, I guess in the mid to late sixties into the seventies, um, and she became famous because you've got to remember that we do not have the telecommunications [00:20:00] technology that we have today. Um, then, um, and she was a huge feature and probably helped to fund the truth newspaper for about 10 or 15 years, I guess. Um, and And that built up And, of course, uh, the, um semi regular arrests. That would happen. As as, uh uh, Amal had had said over, like, licence and stuff. But some of her more interesting cases that she was involved with was involved. Some of the [00:20:30] girls who worked at the balcony and, um and we had 10, God. Name just went out of my head. Um, anyhow, um, there was a beautiful, um uh, transgender woman. God, no, not, um um car winter. That's rough. Carol Winter and And those people at the balcony, um, all the queens were [00:21:00] stunning looking and, um, costumed beautifully and quite talented. It wasn't until somebody opened their mouth that people might have. And this was the art of drag in those days, um, it was that somebody could come in and see an artist on stage and not for a minute think that it wasn't anything other than a woman until, uh, in the old, um, drag artistry days, they would pull off the web at the end of doing something, and everyone would be shocked. And of course, nobody is quite that shocked [00:21:30] anymore about that. But I know that was the sort of gimmick, you know, that was the thing. So it was try to be uns spring, as we called ourselves in those days. And then afterwards it might be revealed, or or, uh realised that, um, all these are very special women. Um, you know, in those days, anyhow, with Carol de Winter and maybe one or two others, Carol had had a sex change, [00:22:00] but she got arrested, um, in the coffee lounge or wherever it was and had to end up going to court. And, of course, Carmen was, um, helping to support her. And I think had, um, retained, uh, a well known lawyer in Wellington in those days called Roy Stacey. And, um and Roy, um, defended this case in court. The issue that they had at the court, that is, was that legally, [00:22:30] Carroll was a man, but she'd had reassignment surgery, so she was a sex change. And I think that I can't remember or recall all the details of how the case went on, but it actually began the altering and changing of law of how to treat, um, a transgender person in front of the judge. I can remember when I got arrested myself for frequenting with Felonious in team as the and a, which I'm sure a few of us here might [00:23:00] have that charge against us. It doesn't exist. It doesn't because they didn't know how to treat male prostitutes, which is how we were under the law and so frequenting. It's just being around somewhere a lot. Um, but with Felonious intent, sort of meaning that we were out to sort of, you know, um, get some money. Yeah, yeah, to To to commit a crime and then deemed the rogue and a vagabond because we were [00:23:30] working off the street. And in those days, this Roe and Vagabond Law existed because I think from the Depression days or whatever. Um, you weren't allowed to have less than a a minimum amount of money on you. Uh, and if you didn't Well, you were, um, plucked and popped on the city mission for the night or whatever. Or in the cells? Probably more likely. But for charges that we got in those days, if we were unlucky enough to be caught, and quite often we were it became [00:24:00] regular. Um And so when we went to court, then that was the charge. And I can still recall fronting up to the district Court judge on the Monday morning after having spent Friday when I'd got plucked off the street in the cells, the male cells of what was in the wearing Taylor Street police station, um, down there and spent the whole weekend in there with the males are full of gang members and stuff. There was the sort of partitioned toilet in the corner of the goddamn cell. And I tell you, there was nothing more disgusting. And of course [00:24:30] we would be there full makeup and Friday nights going out here by Monday morning, fronting up to the judge. We look like shit. And, um, as you could imagine. And there was no no consideration given to us as trans people, um, you know, of of any kind of regard for us. We were scum, and we were the lowest of the low and that sort of sense, and that's how we were treated. Um, anyhow, most of us sort of thought, Oh, well, we got plucked out [00:25:00] of the many times you might have had clients and things. And the 50 buck fine that we got was sort of cheap tax, Really. And, uh, cheers. Thank you. Um, Carmen had the original coffee lounge, um, further down Vivian Street than where some of us might might remember it next to the Salvation Army citadel. It had a, um, very colourful and exotic, um, facade on the front of the building with minarets like [00:25:30] the Taj Mahal and stuff like that, Um, to give you a sort of sense that you were going be going into something quite special. Um, it was quite a small venue, really. In the scheme of things as we look at it today, Um, and the room was it was, um or the the the coffee bar was sort of decorated with paintings of Madam Carly and those old 19 sixties velvet paintings of women and things like that. Um, it had huge red lanterns, Chinese lanterns [00:26:00] that hung from the ceiling with big gold tassels on them. Uh, the walls were painted red. It was all sort of, you know, leaning towards that way. It was eclectic, and, um, and full of Carmen's exotica and up above the coffee lounge. Carmen had, um, her living quarters, and she had the rooms divided up into different themes. They were at the African Room and the Egyptian room, and famously, she had a coffin upstairs, which sort of became [00:26:30] legendary, you know, and that sort of thing. And as Mel mentioned when, uh, Carmen might have sort of a client for us after doing the tea cups thing, um, and all of that on the table, Carmen and come and sort of let you know that there was a person who was interested in you and the client would be, um, directed to go out of the coffee lounge and out onto the street in an alleyway ram between, um, uh, the coffee, the [00:27:00] coffee lounge venue. And what would now be the new Um, What's that one on street? Um, yeah. No, no, no. Um, anyhow, um, it doesn't matter. Um, really there. And, um and the client would go around to the outside door, entrance to the apartment, and then Carmen would have big tapestries on the wall inside, and she'd get the girl and she'd lift the tapestry. And there was an internal door, uh, to the apartment. [00:27:30] And so if you went through that door, the client would be knocking on the outside door. You'd open it. Hello? And here we are. And upstairs would go and do the business. It wasn't unknown for Carmen to be, um, Hawking. I suppose you'd call it from her upstairs bedroom window. Um, tips out on the street fully beautiful and wonderful. While she's taking care of business behind her. And, um, which was in some time Miles mentioned [00:28:00] Lola. There was Gypsy. There was Dion. There was Chrissy. There was a whole We call them the Big and, um, Geraldine and shell. And a whole lot of Phyllis Monroe Cardigan Bay. Um, you know who would who would be our elders? I guess for those of us who are young and new to the scene now was right. We met in about 1975 76 when I had not [00:28:30] long moved to Wellington and as a night porter for a short time at the Royal Oak. And there, of course, we were introduced to the Bistro bar and the tavern bar, which were infamous in those days. The bistro would be full of, uh, Trans, um, and sailors and prostitutes. The tavern bar was basically was essentially meant to be a gay man's bar. It wasn't advertised as such. It just became that or whatever. And me, me and Leon worked upstairs [00:29:00] in the hotel and is quite rightly, he he did, um, do the, uh, just the the the music at the club exotic for the shows, Um, that we were in stripping and up there. But he also moonlighted while he was working as a, um or bar manager upstairs, um, of the restaurant, wasn't it? And, um, and he would moonlight being the sweet transvestite act at Carmen's balcony. This was in the dying days of Carmen's [00:29:30] balcony. Um, and, uh, which was a fabulous um, you know, drag show that we had down here, Um, you know, at that time and took me one night to see the show there, And I had never really encountered, um, trans like that before. I really didn't even know about Carmen. But through my association with Mel and Leon, you know, at that time, I soon learned pretty quick. And that was the first time when I went to the balcony that I saw, um, a cast of transgender [00:30:00] women performing, and I never looked back from them myself. It was It was the It was the affirmation I needed that answered my own internal struggle with who and what I am et cetera Like that. And that confirmed I never looked back from that time onwards. And, um, the balcony, uh, closed, I think, in the closing year or 12 months or so of it. A, um, well known New Zealand um, entertainment [00:30:30] group called Red Mole. Um uh, Arthur based and various other people like that who are in the show. But they went off overseas and did very well for themselves. And they were quite well known here as a sort of, um, travelling troupe of performers. Uh, they weren't trains or anything like that, but they used that venue, Um, which Carlin happily gave them to and just remarking on, Yes, Gypsy would be on the door at the balcony. But also there would be Jeannette Jeannette McLaughlin, who, um, [00:31:00] and Maureen, you know, would be out there except Jeanette would get a little unscrupulous sometimes and sort of go. Oh, that's a dollar for Carmen. A dollar for me. A dollar for Carmen. A dollar for me. You know, naughty things will go on like that sometimes. Um, Carmen had various businesses she's often talked about as as being entrepreneurial. And she was for, um, a person of her sort in those days. And as far as Carmen was concerned, as publicity grew for her, and she became quite a famous [00:31:30] figure in New Zealand at that time, but with a salacious bent to it, any publicity was good publicity. As far as she was concerned, it helped business all the time. And the kinds of businesses that Carmen ran were her coffee lounge. Uh, the balcony, um, she had a curio shop for a while up in Plymouth steps. She had the Egyptian tea rooms in Upper Cuba street. Uh um, for a while, just to name a few of her, um, sort of, uh, businesses that she [00:32:00] had going. And then, of course, she had her famous boarding house in Moxam Avenue. Hm? Boarding house. Hm. And, um, more like bro boarding brothel house. But But, you know, this was business, and it was a boarding house. And those and those sorts, um, sorts of things. Carmen's venues offered a safe haven. I think Chanel has mentioned this before, and [00:32:30] many of us have for those of us who are new and green and coming into the scene. And yet it was rough justice. Sometimes for us to learn how to fit in number one rule. You never punched any other girl's client by god, if you did, you were soon slapped down very quickly. Uh, by that and, uh, some, you know, when we're young and we're beautiful and that some of the slightly older ones that have had one too many, um whatever shall comes to mind for out of the out of the blue just slack [00:33:00] you across the face. You are too fucking good looking Whack. 00, so sorry about that. Trying to make it, um, like that. And I don't know if any of you have seen or heard of the, um, series called Coming Out of America and they talk about the, um, homes and the houses and the mothers and things like that. Well, some of these older queens were just like that, and they were homes. I guess you could call them around. Welling wellington. At [00:33:30] the time she had up in street, she had a house there which would be full of the and lots of queens who went and lived there for a wee while. And they soon left as soon as they could. Uh, Monroe used to have a house up in Home Street. Um, Carroll had a place up in the street up there in, and they were very Duncan Terrace was another place that had them. And, um, when the lease ran out for Carmen's coffee lounge, [00:34:00] the original site and everything like that, Carmen moved temporary very temporarily for a short time and had a coffee lounge, um, upstairs, in a building on Lower Cuba Street and next door up there were the, um was the Greek gambling club where the Greeks gambled up there. She was there only very temporarily. And then the ever, um, or what became the evergreen came up and she moved in there. Um, but then in the early eighties, when car and left New Zealand for tax purposes and, um, [00:34:30] and everything she, um Chrissy we took, uh, took over the lease on on the, um evergreen and that became famous and synonymous with Chrissy even till now. Uh, but the legacy that Carmen had left as far as having some safe havens of entertainment and stuff was was carried on by Chrissy. Now Chrissy was around, certainly during Carmen's heyday. So was Jackie Grant. Jackie was another, um, Trans [00:35:00] woman who had the businesses and things like that. Um, at the time, Carmen seemed to be the one that grabbed the headlines. Um, she had a an amazingly warm personality. A great sense of a, um, a customer to any of her, um, establishments was warmly welcomed. No sense of threat or whatever like that, um, which was sort of wonderful. So generally, members of the public, um, found it, um, quite comfortable. [00:35:30] And E collective to go and and sort of naughty to go to somewhere like Carmen. The whole Vivian Street scene in those days had colour. It had life. It was vibrant. Yeah, it was a little bit, Sort of, you know, um, salacious, I suppose. In lots of ways, Uh, but I think the clear that used to come through, um and I don't mean, you know, for sex or anything like that. But those would want to come and have a sort of wild night out. After the pubs shut at 10, there was very little left a few nightclubs around town. [00:36:00] But the last place that you might be able to get some booze would be at the coffee lounge or at the evergreen or whatever before the old coffee lounge closed. Nicole Deval took over the lease for a year, the last year of it. And at that time, Nicole was living out in, um, Island Bay, I think with uh, Diana Adams and Vicky Crystal, and, um, and a few others like that. And, um and that's where she was during that period of time when Nicole had been here. I think when mel [00:36:30] was talking about it before, um, she did spend some time living at what was the old Egyptian Embassy? An oriental terrace around an Oriental bay, which is very flash place, you know, a bunch of queens and gypsy and Helena and their lived in one of those beautiful San Francisco turn of the last century houses on Oriental Bay. Um, those ones there, um, they were sort of, uh uh, you know, dingy in those days. Those houses who would have thought [00:37:00] Now, that'd be gazillion dollar properties, Um, and all of that. But, you know, that's where where, Uh, some of us, uh, lived. So the little touches of law and things because of arrests and court cases that came up caused a conundrum for the legal fraternity and for Parliament. I guess at the end of the day of how to address this emerging and growing population of trans people, particularly as far as gay Night life was concerned at the time, it was very confined. [00:37:30] The lesbians would have had a club of their own, and the gay men had a club of their own. The Dorian Society, originally down Lambton Quay and then it moved up to Willow Street, um, behind at the Willow Street village there. Um uh, for some time and trans weren't often allowed to go, and some of us were. The favourite ones were allowed to go because that was the exclusive only. But when homosexual law reform and things like that came along, the barriers between the Trans the [00:38:00] gay men, the gay women began to melt. Uh, because we all needed to work together going for the same cause. So our mobilisation and, of course, transgender people were the most obvious of gay people. I mean, you can't deny with Carmen sailing like a gallon down Cuba mall and her via Lucas beautiful gowns and her hair forever and her botanical garden in the hair And, um, and all of that and those lips and her cavernous Grand [00:38:30] Canyon of the chest and which would be out there. And she became notable because of her lovely sense of humour, her cheekiness, the art of the double on to, uh, which she could do very well in public and private situations. And, um, one famous photo should be in the archives of the truth newspaper one year. I think Sir Arthur was our governor general and she had come and had reason to be out at the races of re one year and managed to be in [00:39:00] the general vicinity of the governor General, um, at the time. And, uh, she, uh, a photo was teed up and car and went to sort of stand near the Governor General like that again with a cavernous cleavage and all of that sort of stuff. And just as the photo is about to be taken, she popped her tits out. And, of course, that would have made the front page of the newspaper, or at least page three and, you know, and it was funny little gimmicks like that the car would do from time to time. Um, I should stop talking [00:39:30] with these other two girls. Um, have a Have a say. Um, Carmen knew every business owner down Cuba street. Um, it would be her routine to go for a walk down Cuba Street and Cuba more and everything like that. And she would be saying hello to all of us. Even at me. Hardware, the English and foreign food company that was up there and all of those sort of shops in those days when she was just going out to do her shopping. So she became [00:40:00] a beloved local character, and Wellington came to embrace her. There was something sort of and she became famous. And why that is important for us as a transgender community is that our visibility was being lifted by Certainly this one person as far as the national scene was concerned. And that helped to desensitise, uh, hatred, frankly, and fear of people like us in those days, but because she seemed to be warm, the heart [00:40:30] of many in the country. I mean, but I, I have people coming up to me as Oh, yes, we went to Carmen's Coffee lounge, and all those years ago, they actually quite like telling these naughty stories, Um, you know, Oh, when they went there, A few famous people, of course. David Long. He famously, um, frequented the, um, coffee lounge. Nothing for more than coffee, I suppose. Lou Reed and his then transgender girlfriend, um, went to the coffee lounge. Um, when he was here on on [00:41:00] one of the concerts, she had the great and the good pass through there. And she knew all of the, um movers and shakers in Wellington at the time. Um uh, Bob Jones, of course. Famously, of course. He he backed her, um, for the Wellington May And I have to say, one of my uncles, Trevor was in in amongst all of that as well. I have my, um I have a view of why Bob was happy to do that. I think he wanted to upset local government at the [00:41:30] time and just sort of thought he'd put someone like, you know, back someone like Carmen because that would just be absolutely sensational. And it was. And Carmen loved it. And she would get a little coterie of girls to travel around with her to her campaign, meeting things and things like that. Sometimes she'd pull up in a nice black limousine and all of that wearing hats and everything and and the two or three girls would have to pop out and play lady and waiting with her and all of that, you know, to help support her into things like that. Big billboards everywhere and some of the things we see [00:42:00] in the exhibition there about her. And of course, she, um, went on a on a platform that was about liberalising things such as our liquor laws at the time, such as prostitution reform such as homosexual, um, homosexuality and and reform, You know of all of that. And she was talking about on a very public platform, those kinds of things back in those days, probably with the hand of Bob Jones and his little bunch of cronies who are helping to write her press statements. [00:42:30] Because Carmen was dyslexic. Um, she couldn't read. Um very well, um, and that kind of thing, and she sure couldn't write. I mean, have you received cards from Carmen and stuff like that? And you see a little scrawl at the bottom of a photo, a new photo she might send to you or whatever like that you could tell that she wasn't, you know, into doing that. And, um, but she would have firmly believed in those things and still did that in her lifetime. She would have seen all of that come to pass as [00:43:00] a wonderful testament to somebody stepping forward and, you know, and making those pleas, I guess for us to look at those, um, some of those laws and of course, helped to, you know, open the world, Uh, for us, in many ways, um, everything we've got today. Well, it is, Yes. And, um, and those of us who have come after have built on top of that legacy, of course. And as far as her running for the mayor, she's got fourth in the Wellington mayoral. [00:43:30] Um, she missed out to Sir Michael Fowler, who became the mayor then. And, um, at that time, and really, she had a pretty damn good run. Um, in that campaign to be at least fourth in that election. That was amazing, because it was just that a person, a drag queen or whatever would run for those things. So when it came to my time many years later, um, to stand in local government, uh, I wasn't a precedent. [00:44:00] Not in that sense. Carmen had run beforehand and had laid a certain amount of sort of 00, yeah. There wasn't that much shock horror in Iran except the shock. Horror was in part, Really. And, um, and, um and of course, you know, the rest is history. Um, as far as I'm concerned. But if it hadn't been for people, um, like, car like Nicole, like all of that generation. Really, That helped to uplift the next ones. Those of us you know [00:44:30] who who came along later, Um, when she had her 70th birthday. And there's a photo of out in this exhibition of me and Carmen, uh, standing at the front door of parliament. So after we had the birthday down at the boat shed on the waterfront here, um, a day or two later, um, Tim Barnett And I said, Well, we've got to have come to Parliament for dinner, and, [00:45:00] um And so we organised that, and the photo of Carmen and me there is on that occasion, and we weren't going to take it through the beehive entrance of, um I said, no girlfriend. You're gonna walk up the front steps of this goddamn parliament because it was the first time that Carmen had been back to Parliament since she had been hauled in to front the Privileges Committee in 1975. She had done an interview on television because she was about to write a book, [00:45:30] and I can't remember the name of the reporter, but he was well known and well, well regarded at the time and during the course of that interview, she mentioned that she knew of at least one homosexual who was in Parliament and knew more. And on the strength of that, Muldoon, who I think was a member of the opposition or leader of the opposition or something at the time had her hauled in front of the Privileges Committee of the Parliament. Um, and she was censored. Now, to many people think Oh, yes. So what? You were censored. But [00:46:00] in the parliamentary term, that's quite a thing to be censored. You cannot leave there and ever talk about, um, any suggestion and all she did was make a sort of an innuendo that she knew of at least one and that there might be others in there. And she was hauled in front of Parliament terrifying experience, I could imagine for her famous photo of Carmen standing with her fox and and, um, on the steps of Parliament when she went to go and, uh, front, all of that, [00:46:30] and went in there and front of that committee and came out having been CD and she couldn't reveal anything more. She knew about around about that same time. Um uh and this is will give you an idea of how low life we as a gay community were in those days. Muldoon suggested that an MP called Colin Moyle might be gay, and it destroyed that man's life and career in Parliament. Um, you [00:47:00] know, at that time, So, um, Carmen fronting up to parliament, and now we move on some years, and she's there, coming for dinner. Um, and I had stupidly said to her because she sort of said, Oh, can I bring you know, one or two with me? 30 turned up, She came with her entourage and we had dinner in the and the in there and every member of Parliament who came and had dinner in there that night, Um, all came and [00:47:30] paid their respects to come and come and directly and personally, including Helen Clark. And, um, I can remember a former national MP called Wayne MAPP, um, who was one of the first in the room after we'd all been seated in the restaurant. And, um, and he walked in and was just taken aback at this array of trains that were sitting in in parliament with Carmen at the head of the table and everything like that. And he [00:48:00] said to me later, he said, You know what? The first thing was that that struck me as soon as I walked in there. He said there was this weird concoction of perfume at him because everyone had wore their, you know, best Charlie perfume, um, or white diamond. Um, whatever it might have been of the day and all of that. So it was lovely to have her back there. And I am so pleased that she was treated with the respect and everything from members of Parliament, Um, in their, uh, that night when I became [00:48:30] elected, not just as mayor, but when I went to parliament to Carmen was very pleased about that. And she was so proud, You know, that one of her girls or or you know, from that time wasn't quite a pro, but, um, but, you know, um, she sort of felt that that was good to see that, uh, came And how funny. Now we have about 16 out gay members in our parliament. Don't tell the rest of the world because some might think that now the gay community is disproportionately [00:49:00] represented in our parliament for the size of our population across the board. But sadly, I am still the first and only transgender woman, Um, who has been elected to Parliament and to And I'm hoping, uh, although, uh, in the 2014 election and that he called Kelly Ellis from in, um, north, You know, up in Northland there, uh, she ran for the Labour Party in the 2014 election for the seat. Unfortunately, [00:49:30] she was not successful. Um, I'm hoping, and I am sure there will be other trans people, um, who will have a go at politics in some respect. And, um, and be the second? You know, I suppose. But I guess just to wind up my little bit for now, um, all of that that went before, built up towards people like myself, uh, a whole range [00:50:00] of well known rainbow people now who have excelled in the area of Endeavour. Um, and it also we have to acknowledge the maturing attitude of the New Zealand citizen over those years. Yes, Difficult. In the sixties seventies and somewhat into the eighties until homosexual law reform came along in 93 we had our human rights amendments. Um included into it. Um, 2003 [00:50:30] 4, we do the civil union act. Um, the statutory references amendment bill, which was actually the more important bill to pass. Um, along with civil union, because that's a statutory references amendment bill amended over 100 other acts of parliament, um, to take into consideration. Um, uh, you know, all the other law that it would be consequential to and things like that. We then moved forward to, of course, Louisa [00:51:00] Wall bringing us marriage equality. And in that short period between 2004 and about 2009 10, or whenever it was we did, um um, uh, marriage, equality, that it was a nation by majority who were telling us the country Oh, for God's sake, marriage, equality. Give it to them by majority. Now, that's a huge attitudinal change that had happened even from civil unions. Those of you who may recall civil union was a venal, nasty, [00:51:30] horrible debate for our community to have to go through. And, of course, I famously had my battles with Destiny Church and Brian Tamaki and all of those sorts of, uh, naysayers to us and, um, and you know, and And we got through that just, um, to get civil unions through. And then not less than 10 years later, we have marriage equality in the nation, saying, Come on, come on, just let them have it. And I think that is a great [00:52:00] thing to have happened, because now you know, they are with us, not against us. The nation I'm in, you know, uh, by majority. We still have our enemies, of course. And, uh, but and they will always be present and the naysayers to us. But, uh, we have shown that we could stand up against them, and it hadn't been for pioneers like Carmen, like Gypsy like Chrissy um, you know, all of them before us and Nicole and all the Auckland Queens and and things like that, we might not be quite the community we are today [00:52:30] or things mightn't have happened as quickly as is there is one more important piece of, uh, legislation to mention that passed. Uh um, So we've got five pieces of rainbow related legislation starting off from homosexual law reform, the human rights amendments, the civil unions, the marriage equality and the latest, and perhaps In some ways, the most important was that all gay men who were convicted of homosexuality back in that day have had their crimes [00:53:00] wiped entirely. And that's great for those who have survived. Um, having been arrested in those times and suffered the ignominy of all of that. But for many, it destroyed their lives and their careers irreparably. Um, because of those anti homosexual, uh, laws that were then So, um, in a relatively short time period, 30 40 years, um, we have come quite a long way, and I know there's a lot more work [00:53:30] to do. And now transgender issues are are floating to the top very much so, uh, the, um, conference seminar that's just been cancelled at Massey University. Um, for these feminists who have a huge issue with transgender and, uh, wish to keep us in a box, um, and I will be helping to fight against that. I think when it, um when it comes to the fore, because we do have a piece of legislation before Parliament now delayed at a second reason. Um, [00:54:00] but that's that I winded up common fabulous person. She is, as has become as much a Kiwi icon as a Tim Shad as a Sam Hunt as a Barry Crump. She's part of our country's folklore. She's regarded affectionately by everyone. She has things that lights to. We get a statue sometime or whatever like that in in [00:54:30] an appropriate place. She was an important piece of New Zealand's social development and the liberation, Um, and part of the liberation of the rainbow community in New Zealand. I'll leave it at that now and pass over to, uh, Chanel, who will have some other things to add. I hope. Chanel, by the way, for those of you who are underwear. She co curated this exhibition, and, um, and I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Congratulations. It's a fantastic [00:55:00] honour for for Carmen and for those of us that are in those little bits of photos framed up out there. I was shocked to see some of me, Um, but everybody. So I'm going to talk about, um, the eighties. So we came in on the wave of the eighties, and the 19 eighties was a time was was a time for was it was a period of change, and I think part of that change, Um, [00:55:30] For the community, for for for for the New Zealand public and for the world Green came in on, um, like when you in in in in that time all the singers who were known then as gender bender like boy George and the high shoulders padded jacket, the makeup and all that kind of, um all all all that kind of stuff It it kind of it kind of mellowed out people's ideas [00:56:00] that about about our community that that that they didn't have in the seventies because in the, um, Tina was talking about, uh, Carmen and how she was in front of, um, that privileges that privileges Committee because you in in those days you just didn't do that because being gay could cost you your job. And when she was talking about how, How, how [00:56:30] How, um, a lot of that kind of stuff has been good for somebody has wrecked other lives and, you know, coming out you you could be fired. So it was better to stay, stay safe and come under the what she was doing. She was just rekindling those issues that people never talked about because in those days you're gay and that's all you're ever gonna be. You're never gonna be anything else than gay and Trans and that's where you belong. And she [00:57:00] she she she rekindled that that that that that that talk about about that kind of thing. And, um, she did it with a lot of style and she with a smile. And, um, she was very, um, uh, she she was engaging and she was somebody that, like there are some people in this world that they don't really need any words, the presence in themselves. And she was one of those people. You could just see her and go, Oh, my gosh, it's calm. [00:57:30] It's calm. And and I remember, um, the 70th birthday at the boat, Those two police officers and I and and And I know them through my work who they were, that was, and and they were really high profile. And they did arrest her back in the day. It strange that when the Prostitution Law Reform Act passed, they created this committee so [00:58:00] the committee would monitor it. Five years down the line, they come back and review it. And Paul Harris was the chair of that committee. So that's really funny how things have come around and, um, talking about the changes. I mean, when we came, we were like, the new We were, like, the new girls on the block, and we've never seen other transistors so big. They were huge. And, you know, we we were We were [00:58:30] just amazed, um, and it kind of intimidated because they were a little bit, They were bigger, and we were skinnier. And yeah, we were young and they were big. Your voice is like in those days, a roller. A roller was a was a, um, somebody who stole somebody else's money. So we had no idea what a roller was. So every time they said it to us, we're like, what? And then we'd go up the stairs and there'd be another trans guy even [00:59:00] bigger. One saying I've never seen you before. I Oh, no, no. We we we knew We're from Auckland. You don't grow up. Do you think that word again? What the hell is that? What is that word? And after a while we really realised what it was and they never You never introduced yourselves to them. They came to you. That's the That was the rule. Never go up to a older girl with you. They'd come to you in their own time. And, um, eventually [00:59:30] we're talking about We were talking about houses, houses. Um, well, we had a house because we were the new ones. So we had 40 Colombo street and that was our house. And the reason why we had, um, houses in those days is because of discrimination and stigma. A lot of girls were out there because it was so hard to find a job and they were discriminated against even when it came to housing. It's like, Oh, no, you're not. I'm [01:00:00] not giving my I'm not renting my place to you. You're a six week. Even if you weren't so that's the reason that everybody had households. So if one got a house, seven would move in. Then it was like, Yeah, I know I lived in a house like that, but it was good because it taught you to how to how to engage with other people, how to how to when you go out by yourself. How how how you you'll know how to look after yourself. Learn how to pay your [01:00:30] rent and and and all that kind of stuff. So it was a learning experience for all of us in that time. In that time, we saw a lot of changes uncommon pave the way for people to enter into political spaces. Um, I went to the to the conference, and this is where people from all over the world came. And somebody said to me, I flew into your country. They said the [01:01:00] first thing I saw was a rainbow in the airport. They said I came into the city. You've got a train ski on the traffic lights and you've got this rainbow crossing. She goes. I hope you realise how how lucky you are in your country, she said, Because we, we we we we're a million years away from that and in our country, she said, we walked up the street, nobody even looked at us. You know, she goes, we felt so comfortable. She goes, [01:01:30] You hosted us so well because, uh, New Zealand had done the bit for for the and Thailand. And, um, that's how we won the bid for it. And they were just blown away by by by by New Zealand. It's not not just the beauty of our our of the people, the inclusiveness. And they said, I mean, look, you've got a bisexual, you've got a rainbow. You've got a trans flag [01:02:00] outside your parliament. They go, this is Oh, it's got the rainbow room in parliament. This is this is amazing. And you have rainbow people in your parliament. They go, you you are so far ahead of the world. And they said, and we're so privileged to to to To to come here and and, um you know, that makes me proud because, um, we've broken a lot of barriers like we do in New Zealand. I mean, Georgina, that's that. That was huge. And, [01:02:30] um, you know, you need somebody to to to like that torch, so you know, you can carry it. Someone else can carry it down, uh, in in the future. And I think that, um, as Trans people we do have, we do. Luckily in New Zealand for trans girls, we do have some really good things. We can have an F on the passport and we can have an F on our driver's licence, and you can go and have an [01:03:00] F put on your birth certificate if you want to. But that's brought trans girls into conflict with a lot of, um, um, feminist groups, because they believe that, um, trans women are stealing their space, and I think that's really, really sad. And it's even in our own community, you know? And we we are the probably the most, you know, marginalised ones out of all out. Really. And I think that's really sad. And but it's the way that that that that that the world [01:03:30] is today and, you know, hopefully something can be done in the future. And yeah, um, so yeah, to this whole exhibition about Carmen. I was asked to do it, and I really wasn't sure because, um, I'm an era after, but I know all these girls. I did a show with Georgina. We did play girls back in 1981. We were back in 1981. We did a show called Fake Girls and we performed [01:04:00] for Alvi Martin for the young ones. There was Harvey Norman's Martin and he came right. We put it right, and she she was stunning. She did. She did. That's right. No lines just off the cuff. She was amazing. She was stunning. And I was really honoured to to to to do a show. Um um with Georgina and, um and and how much you've done [01:04:30] you You You've done, um, in terms of, um, being a being an icon for 1978. Well, into you were in 1978. Were you in that line? I'm not that house. Yeah, the eighties. That's that's Queen of Queen. Oh, OK. Yes. Right. [01:05:00] Anyway, so So So we have come a really long way in terms of our our community and and and all our young people in our community have can. And and and And I'm glad that some of you are here because you can listen to these stories and know that that, you know, there's this beautiful quote that she stopped that she had, and it goes something like, I stand on the shoulders of those that went before me, [01:05:30] and now people stand on the shoulders of people like me. And, um, when we think about it, it's those those who went before you that made their plan. So you don't have to, um you don't have to have it so hard. We do still have issues today. Maybe that we need to to fix up. But they're not as bad as they used to be. Back in the very conservative days when it was even illegal for you to put a dress on. And it was illegal for you to [01:06:00] wear women's underwear. Yeah, and it was illegal for you to be gay. I remember with the boys in the high street in Auckland, and, um, they were always getting back in the early eighties, and they were always getting busted by the police going in under cover. And on top of them, they had the police on the street, you know, doing undercover things and busting busting, um, the girls on the street so you know, things that you know. But with all these new changes the homosexual law, reform, prostitution, law reform act, you know all these [01:06:30] things, all all these changes have come around, and they've been, and they've been positive because you don't have to go through all that that stuff again. We we we have our rights. And, you know, we just, um, think about all those other countries that don't have it. And, you know, hopefully one day they will. So, anyway, um, that was nice to talk to you. And it's, um that's me. [01:07:00] Thank you. So I just before I indicate I just that 1978 drag contest was a Miss Wellington drag contest. And, um, there's a a well known, uh, woman, um editor, journalist for the listener, Helen Pak was her name decided to do a feature story on that particular event in 1978 Miss Wellington drag contest. And there's just a wonderful lineup of of we're all standing, you know, [01:07:30] there it's a great, um, shot of all of us. Then, um a, uh a friend of all of ours called Kennedy won the Miss Wellington drag contest and I won miss personality. And, um, our prizes were to go to Auckland for their, um uh for their drag contest, which was done under the theme of the Debutant Ball. And since he be had won, um, the contest in Wellington. She was allowed to go up and be a judge and certainly [01:08:00] a VIP special guest. But I just my prize for winning this personality was to go to the Auckland thing. So I went up there, too, and then I cheekily entered it and won. And so we brought it back to Wellington. You know, um, in that sense, Um, yeah. And then a little while later, we did that, um, play girl show with a flatmate of mine at the time. Um, and it had, um Renee. Renee, Paul was in it. Chanel was in it. Sarah, [01:08:30] she was in it. I was in it. And Donna de Paul, uh, was in it, and I only got I mean, really a Maori doing May west. Um, but we had a wonderful woman called Tina Harris that made our our set of costumes. Um, uh, for that particular show. And they were like, she was the television New Zealand wardrobe mistress, um, at that time out at a and she made a beautiful set of four cost for the ascot out of my fair lady. And they were made to [01:09:00] absolutely, as you would see it as though, um, Beaton, who designed the costumes, um, for the ascot in the movie. Um, fabulous. And she made the May outfit, which I managed to fit into, which was red and black. And I had to wear this blonde wig and you come up and see me some time. You know, I Yeah, I made it up anyhow. Fabulous years, lots of entertainment and lots of fun. But Kayla can add to [01:09:30] all of this. So, um yeah, I'm about the youngest. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. But I know how I remember that many years ago, when I was about 16 17, I had left school and got a job [01:10:00] in a place called Town House on Oriental Bay. And, like we had, like, Charlie and various guests, American artists turn. So I was privileged to take a tray of food to the room. It was cool. It was, like, part of my life then and I thought, That's it. Um, but, see, I had to walk from Orange Bay all the way through Courtney Place down street to the station, [01:10:30] and after that for a while, and then one night I was coming home very young, and this big person come out the door, he goes, how are you? And I sort of like, see all these, um, tits. And I heard a lot of music and I could remember the big bust and the big here. And would you like to come in? Oh, no. I've got to go home. And like, I just recently got [01:11:00] out of school. And it turns out this person was Cal and this is the club that she had. If I had known that I was gone, I had to lay the train home and I would have gone in, you know, because it was really, really, really good atmosphere in there. And, um, I kept doing that for a while, and I moved town. But when I come back to Wellington, I met up with my friend Chanel. Now, me and Chanel have actually been friends for, like 40 [01:11:30] years now, So, um, but you're not that young, about 20 years younger than you. But, um, what I mean by that is that with us and the closeness of the girls in that that that we had our houses, Yes, we had our communities and we had, like, our families because some of us, as you [01:12:00] might know now, these days, the young ones get kicked out of home. They they get, uh, disowned and stuff like that. But When you come into your own little community and you get to of friends, your friends will be there to pick you up, help you off the ground and you fall over. If you're sad, depressed, what have you help you through? Things we built up our own network, our own little families. Hence our own houses. And there's usually the one person who is at the main, you know, the mother [01:12:30] of the house type thing that you looked up to got to buy. We can come. Oh, you do this, Do that. Do that. You want a house, do this, do that and that, and you go out. And it was an entire community now working on Marion Street. Yeah. Um um Well, unfortunately, because I'm 6 ft three, you add five inch heels to there. That's 68. [01:13:00] And if you if you recall the sign post they have on the corner street with the stop sign, I can go out there and the sign will be right there. Yeah, so and I Yeah, I sort of have this, um, moral walk when I walked in, You know where I tried to be, as as they could but yeah, I mean, hello, 6 ft eight and stood out like this sort of stuff. But to me, working on the street [01:13:30] area was actually fun, because when most people get up in the morning and they get ready and they have breakfast and go out to work and they were all bloody week or 11 day for to get paid sort of thing, you know? And they come home at night and do usual stuff, have dinner, relax and go to bed. Well, when they come home, we would sort of like to get ready on. You're in your bedroom and you go like this and [01:14:00] piss off, you know, and you just get yourself. Then you go out and you'll be in a good mood. We didn't have to worry really about getting into any nightclubs because they were predominantly straight. At that time, we had a nightclub which used to be run by the girls in Cuba. Street called Something now or Or was. Then there was a big car park. Then there was the region where we worked in the street. So we [01:14:30] had our own nightclub, you know, listening and would have a good time. We we all all be happy. Stop and talk to the next person. How you go? Oh, yeah. I'll get back to you soon. I just got a It was like that night, but it was like waking up going to the shop sort of thing. Um, it went really smoothly. And it was actually really enjoyable lifestyle. Well, for me myself, um, over the years, that sort of declined because we had the, um [01:15:00] uh, prostitution law reform Bill pass, which made it a lot better for all six workers. So but, um, six workers have gone still more indoors from the street area, but they're still working. I mean, yeah, I'm still working. Yeah. Sorry. Um, but anyway, getting back to the point with me, I am the chef and caterer. So when I was young, first time I really met Georgie. I was working [01:15:30] in a club called, uh a in Auckland with my boyfriend, and they were doing, um, and down the road with, like, um, another club, not staircase. And some of you may know, um, and the old crowd they were like, Yeah, those two. And it's like staircase actually went up about 30 0 fr [01:16:00] stairs to go to the club. They had the piano bar and everything. That was cool. You get back on the street, and then you get run into all these. Oh, you were one of those to me. It was sorry. Oh, you were one of those. Really? Yeah. Um, I was raised in a large family. I've got, like, six brothers, so I thought I was taught you back down. And that was taught to me by my mother. Funny, of course. But [01:16:30] after that, I sort of hung around that scene, the nightclub scene. And when I moved to Wellington, I started working in various, um, cafes, and I met way back this one. I met me in a place called the Society many, many years ago, and there were three of the people there, and they actually did drag shows. And then I was asked to do one. [01:17:00] Hence began my performance, um, era sort of thing. We flown on through that, and we still remain friends to stay. I went from there and then, um, I was given a job job opportunity. I was one of the first trans bouncers in the club down in Edward Straight off. Yeah. And then, um, after that, it was just like I went. And, um, remember, [01:17:30] they open up another out in Wellington. So I went there to work as a cleaner. Next minute I'm hosting Thursday drag show. And next minute, Miss Hot Legs by jingles. And then Miss hostess. And I was, like, to me, that was just helping my community. Nothing was expected. It's just Yeah, it just happened. Things happen. And it turned out to be excellent, like, [01:18:00] um, comparison to say straight people mundane life. Do this, Do that. But every single time when you go out, like at in our night life, there was something different. Um, something more exciting about it. I don't know. Like, you see, one of the girls come out and next minute. Oh, you look really good. How did you get like that? And, you know, just, uh the enthusiasm of some of the girls [01:18:30] was just over the top. We had When I was working on the street, we had a girl. I forgot her name. Now she's passed on, and she had an amazing voice. Sounded very much like Anita Baker. If you know who that was? And she used to stand on the corner of the street and sing a cappella and nowhere to live life. People used to throw money at her. And then we had another girl called Joe Chanel. Um, now [01:19:00] she was a very good singer as well. It's like that the girls had different talents. But see through all of that these days, that's what we did back then. Used to what you do in your youth. But when you get older, you want to go and do this. Be a newspaper report or what have you? But see the girls. We're not totally useless. We're productive. We went on. Some of us become politicians, [01:19:30] business owners, um, medical professionals and things like that. We contribute to the community more than people actually realise. Like I mean, I've been doing, um, an outreach programme for about 30 years. Um, I help. It's helping the community in regards to Carmen. It was years later, and my friend Jackie Grant approached me and she [01:20:00] says, Oh, I need a chef and I What for? Oh, she goes, Oh, so yeah, so she two kitchens we were working on one to begin with. And then there's Jackie there and there's this lady there and they started arguing and I had enough. So I went out and said, Look here, you two fucking kids Shut the fuck out. We've got about 400 people. Sorry. Feet, blah, blah, blah. And I got put over to the kitchen. [01:20:30] I don't know why, but I got put into a separate kitchen. And between myself and Jackie, we had fed 400 plus people plus seconds to go around. And that was S 70th birthday, and a few days later, we were asked to go out and have at Parliament. And, um, the funny thing about that I used to work in, I think I saved you a toasty [01:21:00] one. Um, I used to work in, and the crowd that worked there on that night that we went for dinner had never seen me like this. And we were sitting there and there was about 18 or so of us in one big table and Carmen so over here and then and walks and she's sitting on a table like this, a small table on the side. So she was like visiting [01:21:30] and I thought, Well, that's unusual, but yeah, that was a good night. It was like a recognition of our community and, um, recognition of calm herself. That was amazing. And then we walked through and because the kitchen door happened to be there. And this chef particular chef who had a fancy on me then when I worked there sort of looked like this. And, you know, what I did was and it's like, Yeah, to me, that was a bonus. [01:22:00] It's like I've arrived. And since then I My main thing now is I put my work into catering food, volunteer work and stuff like that, So yeah, but I mean, overall, our lifestyle is not as bad as people think, because at times we suffer through it to be who we are. We have to take in what others give, [01:22:30] like the gay community, the bullshit harassment, discrimination, all that stuff. We have to take that in from our own family. First, the neglect, rejection, discrimination, hatred, getting beaten up by our members of family losing friends, losing family. You going to Wellington where we found our new families, and I mean, honestly, I consider most of my sisters better quality [01:23:00] than my own family. My own flesh and blood. But yeah, I love them. I thank you. I was just gonna wind it up because we must be there over time. Now, with just one funny little story. Well, I thought it was funny at some time. Can't remember the year it must have been the eighties or whenever it was, um, Gary Glitter starred [01:23:30] in The Rocky Horror Show at the Opera house in Wellington. And Carmen, of course, received complimentary tickets to go along and see The Rocky Horror Show. And Gary Glitter was playing Frank and, um so come and said Georgie, come, come with me. I've got two tickets and I thought, Oh, yeah, OK, I you know, I've been trotting along with her, obviously as a kind of lady in waiting, [01:24:00] you know, for Carmen, you know, to go and get her a cup of tea or go and get her a sandwich or go and get her ice cream or whatever like that. You always had one of us that would sort of trot along, uh, to these things on this particular night, we turn up at the opera house and we're sitting up in the circle. Her seats are at the front of the circle, you know, prime sort of VIP seats. We arrive, um, at theatre, we go to take our seats, and, of course, everyone knows Carmen, and she's Hello, darling. Hello. Lovely to see you. Oh, I must come, you know, And, [01:24:30] um and all of that and being very gracious in her own way, we go up and, um, she waited outside the door into the theatre upstairs until most people had already sat down. And then she would walk in resplendent, regal, doffing head at everybody. And then we get down to the front because we were on the front, right? Everything like that. And then she'd turn around and just take a big bow. So that [01:25:00] was lovely. And then we'd sit down and watch the show show finishes, and she, um, got up just as the lights were about the house lights were about to come up and come on. So that again, she's standing there, ready to walk up the stairs to to leave the place and just, uh, this was just part of her wonderful personality. And people loved it. They almost gave her a round of applause for it. Um, OK, so we get outside of the, uh, theatre [01:25:30] onto the landing to go downstairs and and leave the building and everything like that. Carmen had a a big velvet carpet bag. I suppose we would have called it, but it was made out of, um, velvet. So it was like you had those, um, a curtain railings, which was a big pole with two big round knobs at the end of it. And she had two of those for both sides back for some reason, she bmp the bag on the mud staircase going down and one of the balls rolled off and the bag Coll and [01:26:00] all its contents fell across the floor of the stairs, bouncing down her lipsticks, her condoms or whatever. Um, the hell bouncing down there. And would you believe she just stood there looking like a damsel in distress, And everybody else who was leaving the theatre at the same time picked up all her stuff to hand it back to her. This was the kind of command that come and could hold in a funny situation like, yeah, I got a verbal clip over the ear as we left because I just laughed when the bag all collapsed [01:26:30] down there. And I was, you know, and everything like that. She was not amused about that. And, um, and on our way, leaving the theatre, I got a bit a bit of a ear bashing from and off she get, uh, is one of our mothers. It was just the nature of Carmen. Her her? I don't know. She she seemed to attract some form of affection from people, mostly and, um, and respect in an odd sort [01:27:00] of way. So, as Kayla just said then, by the time we did stuff at party with many later years later, it was an absolute recognition. And yes, we do have a rainbow room in Parliament. We just relaunched it a few months ago. And it does have all the flags of all the rainbow communities hanging in there and the most beautiful piece of art work by, um, Elizabeth, Um, that hangs in the middle of it all, which tells its own story. Uh, what do you call that? [01:27:30] What's the of this, um, a piece of art there? And then at the other end of that select committee room at select committee room 10 or 11. And, um and the reason why we have a rainbow room is because we have a woman Suffrage room. We have a Maori Affairs Select Committee room. We have a Pacific Island room. We have a rainbow room. Um, so it just seems appropriate. And that anchors for us as a community, [01:28:00] the level of respect and acceptance. If it's in our Parliament, then, baby, you know, we we've arrived as far as that's concerned. And we are accepted on the other wall at the end, where from where all the flags are are the five pieces of legislation that have brought us to this point, and hopefully we'll add some more, Um, in the not too distant future, uh, particularly for the trans community. If there are any divisions between our rainbow community are come on, we're diverse. [01:28:30] We are gonna have disagreements and things at the moment. It is going to be this transgender issues, um, that are, um, that are rs to the top, because transgender, the term now has about 30 definitions of what a transgender person is. It's not just a trans man or a trans woman. It's just gender. It's non binary. It's gender fluid. It's a it can go on and on and on and all of that. And so and with the, um, [01:29:00] since we're also an alphabet community LGBTI, QXW and so on and so forth. Um and all of that, I think that's an example of now that generally as a rainbow community, we enjoy a level of liberty and participation in our society. That's realistic so that we can actually be positive contributors, uh, to our society and live worthwhile our lives for ourselves that don't rely us being a burden on the state, [01:29:30] which is what we ended up becoming. It makes no sense to have people just because you've got some moral issue about us. We don't invade your better. Please don't invade mine and that kind of thing. But with the transgender, um, issues these days, there's gonna be a bit of division even amongst the gay men regarding some transgender stuff. Obviously, some gay women have got issues with the trans women. That's why the I don't like using the term. I think it's a bit derogatory, but it's been commonly called the trans exclusionary radical feminists [01:30:00] turf they have. They have been now, and one of them those seminars has just been cancelled by Massey University. Uh, because of one of the controversial speakers that was coming. I'm a supporter of the freedom of speech, and I certainly don't mind, uh, that there are, um, deeply held. Um uh, contrary views to what we might think. It's about robust debate, and we must be mature enough to listen to each other and what it is we're having. But all I'm hearing now is a bitch [01:30:30] going on between these particular feminists and the transgender community and frankly, that will get us nowhere. It all is is just a scratch match between, um, both of us saying insulting and horrible and hateful and hurtful things about each other that will get us nowhere. We have to work through the issues, and I think some women who have got issues about growing transgender liberty, particularly when it comes to having pieces of law changed to, um have their non [01:31:00] binary gender acknowledged on all of their particular documents and things like that. And this is where some of these women are saying that women's spaces are now that they have fought hard for through the women's movement of the seventies and eighties. But, you know, and so on is now being encroached upon by. Well, frankly, I've been using a woman's toilet ever since I popped a frock on. And, um, I've never had an incident in any of them from women, you know, in particular. And I don't go out of my way to make them feel uncomfortable, But [01:31:30] they have some issues about just that alone, um, let alone, uh, that everything that women have fought for to get their liberty and equality. Um, and there we want the same actually seems sort of almost hypocritical that they would use the same hate prejudice, discrimination, conscious or unconscious bias. Whatever you want to call us against trans women in particular. Um, and it really isn't helpful, so I hope we move on. Um, I'll wind it up for a show. OK, so, [01:32:00] ladies and gentlemen, I think, um, there's a whole lot more we could probably talk about. There are many other people that, um, you know, could come along and and shed even more light on it. But suffice to say that the common era was an era of growth. And, um, it wasn't all easy, that's for sure. Yes, we sort of enjoyed. We had our life for our own security, frankly, and sense of community and to support each other. Uh, we all took drugs, We all. It was just that kind of pure [01:32:30] drugs, not the, um you know, um and you know, when a trip with a trip, baby speed ball, you know what I mean? And, um and it was pure. And things like heroin and cocaine was rare because it wasn't easily imported into New Zealand in those days. Uh, but when I read about the sticks and the Buddhist sticks Oh, yes, most certainly until Mr Asia got went under and all of those things. So it was quite a mix of life, [01:33:00] but, uh, I have to say, in the 30 40 years, as you know, as before, our lives as a rainbow community have been extraordinarily liberated, and we are living more fulfilling lives. We can pursue whatever endeavour we want to go for now. And if someone throws discrimination in our face or prejudice in our face, we have law that backs up to fight it, to call it out to stamp it out. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for spending some time with us telling a few stories. [01:33:30] Um, about the era, Um, I think with the next exhibition, because I'm sure there's some more photos to come out. We can more properly cover the eighties and and onwards because this exhibition essentially covers the, um, sixties through to the mid seventies and starting the the eighties. So thank you all have a wonderful evening and go all blacks. [01:34:00] Oh, just some light refreshments are being, um, served over here. So before you all whiz away, please have a wee drink, and I'd bite to eat and, uh, thank you to the New Zealand Portrait Gallery for hosting this particular session on, um, the car era. Cheers.
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