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My name is Nathan Ross, and I'm here. Um, because I feel safe amongst this group of people. Yeah. Nathan, I first encountered you at the, uh, human rights conference, Uh, yesterday and the day before. Tell me, how was that? Oh, it was very good. It was very interesting. Um, I gave a brief session on, um, on bisexuality and the law and some of the legal issues that come up for bisexual people around the world and the complete lack of research in New Zealand. Um, [00:00:30] and also attended some very interesting sessions about, um, climate change and the vulnerability of queer people in, uh, areas affected by sort of unnatural disasters, as I call them. So, yeah, overall, it's very interesting. Yeah, very, very interesting to hear How, um, particularly how members of our community in in poorer countries, where these kind of environmental disasters, um, how they how exposed? They leave people, particularly members of the trans community. You said just before about [00:01:00] being in a safe space. And I'm just wondering, can you talk a wee bit more about that? I mean, what is a safe space and and how do we How do we make it safe. Sure. Well, um OK, so I Well, just a bit of background. I moved here. I moved to New Zealand in 2004 from Australia, and, um, and have sort of forged Wellington to be a safe space. I didn't feel emotionally safe, uh, in with my family in Sydney. And, um and so where you can just [00:01:30] express yourself without fear of something as minor, I guess, as as judgement or or, you know, more more aggressive than that. Potentially. So the fact that we can just hang out together and people can dress wild, wear wild makeup, whatever, and just be relaxed and happy and enjoy themselves. We don't that that's not a normal thing. Day to day, walking down Lampton key to work. You know, it's not a normal thing. So, um, the fact that we have [00:02:00] events like this is really important. One of the things that was mentioned at the conference was, um uh, particularly the the invisibility of of, uh, bisexuals in the rainbow community. And, um, there were some points made about how rainbow communities can make it safer for, um, Bisexuals. Can you talk about that? Yeah, Well, I think, um, that so from within the community that stems from so just to give you a couple of my own experiences, So I had. So I'm now married to a woman and, uh, previous, [00:02:30] uh, boyfriend had told me that No, you're not bisexual. You're just too scared of coming out. So well. Imagine I told you you weren't gay, you know, And that's just not OK. Don't tell me what I am and what I'm not And don't make judgments. And, um and that kind of stuff happens. And, uh, one of my friends in a bisexual social group here in Wellington tells the story that during the, um development of the Human Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination against, um, members of the queer community that [00:03:00] they had to fight to include the word bisexual that gay and lesbian people specifically fought to exclude the word bisexual. And when there was a a fundraiser for the campaign a dance, somebody actually put a sign on the door to say fuck off bisexuals. So now that was back in the early nineties. But that's the kind of stuff that we that we have experienced, and it's bloody awful, because when you can't be queer in the straight world and then you can't be queer in the Queer World, you're left in this kind of, um, [00:03:30] you know, purgatory and and hence all the statistics. All the mental health statistics are worth worse for bisexual people than for gays and lesbians. And it certainly that's not a statistic that I want, and I don't wanna brag about it, But it's just about just accepting. When we say we're bisexual, that's what we are. And that's awesome. And so is being gay, and so is being straight. It's all awesome. Just let people be So, um so yes, So it's just about accepting when we say that that's the truth. Where do you think that discrimination comes from? [00:04:00] So, uh, actually, I just read a journal article about this just a few days ago. And, um, from an academic in the United States Kenshi who says that, um, the incentives for, uh, heterosexual and homosexual people to erase bisexuality is simple things like, um, your sexuality can't be simply defined by the person you're with, and that just creates a confusion that people just don't want. Um, and I think there's something simple, You [00:04:30] know, people like things to be black and white and so gay and straight is kind of easy to get your head around. Whereas if someone flips back and forth or whatever, uh, that that messes with that nice simplicity. Um and so I mean, I don't know. I haven't read any psychological research or anything like that to say exactly why people respond that way. I think everyone just wants things to be as simple as possible. But actually, when you say I can be attracted to two or more genders, that's actually a really easy sentence, and people can [00:05:00] get their heads around it. They just need to 30 years since homosexual law reform this year. What do you think we are going to be like in 30 years time? What's your kind of picture of an ideal world? Um well, look, I mean, just the news last week, maybe last week or the week before about, um, a couple of high schools in Wellington now having non gendered toilets. I mean, how good is this? I couldn't have imagined that five years ago. This is phenomenal. I think the main where in terms of my own, so that [00:05:30] that's just an indicator of some of the progress and how rapid things are all of a sudden, at least in New Zealand, I mean, certainly different stories for our friends in the Pacific and so on. Um but I guess, um, where I would like to see things in 30 years. So I'm you know, this is where I am and I'm out, and I'm here with makeup and nail polish and really enjoying myself. But I've never done that at work. Nobody at work knows who I am. And so it's just the fact that you could come out without being concerned that you would be subconsciously overlooked for promotions. [00:06:00] You know, just the fact that you can just be and then even more importantly than for us adults, you know, when I think back to the horrendous experiences I had right throughout primary and high school to see these young these groups of young people targeting schools if we can, you know, really get messages, especially to boys, I have to say, um, to stop homophobia, biphobia, transphobia, etcetera, um, targeting schools and and getting past that well and also all Those messages also relate [00:06:30] to things like misogyny as, well, racism. But if we can, you know, really change cultures within schools and stop bullying, that would be an ideal outcome in 30 years, because that translates right through to people's adulthood. You know, if you've got those good values as a as a 13 year old, then you're gonna have those values as a 30 year old and a 60 year old. So, um, so I'd really like to see in 30 years time that bullying of queers in schools is a thing of a horrible past. Gotta say that. That kind of, um, nobody at work knows who I am. [00:07:00] I mean, how how do you navigate that? That must be That must be very tricky. Yeah, you live a sort of double life. And funnily enough, um, at the conference at the proud conference, uh, yesterday I turned a corner and I bumped into someone from work, and we both had for about half a second. We both had a look of terror on our face, and then both just kind of like burst into these giant smiles. I was like, Oh my God, fantastic. There's somebody I know. And, um but yeah, I mean, it's a double life. I mean, so, for [00:07:30] example, so for for today I went and had a manicure and I had beautiful purple nails. And I've been making jokes about the fact that Sunday night will be removing the adornments of queerness and and looking normal again for Monday morning. And it's kind of OK, and it's kind of depressing and, um, but I just I sort of still feel like I have to lead a double life. And, um, maybe my fear is not well placed. Maybe it's unfair because I know there are other out people [00:08:00] at work. Um, but there's something kind of acceptable about respectable gay white men who wear a lovely suit to work and just kind of there's There's something that straight people find acceptable to a certain degree, uh, not to not to dismiss any issues that they have, but but to be gender, queer and bisexual. That's that's a whole different world for a lot of straight people. That's something that I don't think that they can cope with to the same degree. [00:08:30] So, yes, I just have to lead a double life.
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