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And welcome along to this, um, very special event held on the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall uprising in New York City. Um, the uprising, which began on the 28th of June 1969 is seen by many as a key moment in the birth of, uh, gay liberation movements and the modern fight for LGBTI rainbow rights, particularly in the US, but also, uh, around the world. In New Zealand, the push for homosexual law reform and equality [00:00:30] had actually had begun years earlier. And so this event, uh, which we've called, uh, our stone wall, uh, marks the uprising in New York City, but also acknowledges and focuses on our local LGBTI rainbow people and events that have shaped our communities. Uh, so first some introductions. Uh, my name is Gareth. I'm Roger. I'm well, and together we're Gareth. Roger. And will, um uh, so today's event is split into, [00:01:00] uh, three parts. It will go for about 90 minutes, and the first part will be roger and I, um, we're gonna dive into the Pride NZ audio Archive and pull out some audio and just give you some A a taste of, um, some Wellington history and some Wellington activities that have really shaped, um, our our cultures here, Um, obviously, we can't cover all our histories in 30 minutes over five decades. Um, and so we're we're drawing some representative stories out. Um, so So that will be for the [00:01:30] 1st 30 minutes. And then, um, will is going to be talking about, um what still needs to be done. Where where are we now and what still needs to be done. And then in the last part, um, it's it's over to you. If you'd like to comment or, um, share a story, you're more than welcome to come up and and and share it would be It would be great to to hear your voices. Uh, just to note, we are audio recording this for pride. And so it's it will go online as an audio document. If you don't want to be recorded when [00:02:00] you come up, Um just say I don't want to be recorded and we and we'll edit you out. Well, we see this event as part of a larger conversation inspired by the 50th anniversary of stonewall in New York, but also inspired locally by recent in January this year called Pride and Beyond the Led by Cassie, came about after divisions within our communities relating to various issues, including police, marching or [00:02:30] not in the Auckland Pride parade, Some of the take home messages from the with the importance of dialoguing face to face rather than through social media, creating safe spaces for differing opinions. Looking for things that bind us together rather than focusing on our differences and using whatever privilege you have to support others is a really significant group in Wellington. It's a group that welcomes people of diverse sexualities [00:03:00] and gender identity. It's been led by Elizabeth and Kevin, who's at the back there for almost two decades and has tirelessly surrounded and supported our LGBTI rainbow communities. And our presentation will keep coming back to a whole variety of groups that have surrounded communities or become focal points themselves. But let's, uh, start with a little bit about, uh, Stonewall uprising itself. Uh, the uprising was a series [00:03:30] of spontaneous violent demonstrations or riots, uh, by members of the Rainbow Communities in New York City. The uprising was sparked by a police raid in the early hours of Saturday. Uh, the 28th of June 1969 at the Stonewall Inn. Now, at that time, police raids on gay bars were quite common. So that would happen every couple of weeks. The Stonewall Inn had turned into a AAA, primarily gay establishment in 1966. When, um, uh, three members of the Mafia, [00:04:00] uh, purchased the inn, and, um, from that point, it was seen as a as a gay venue. At that time, it was the largest gay establishment in the US, and it was the only bar for gay men in New York City where they could dance together once a week. A police officer would collect envelopes of cash as a payoff. Um, as the Stonewall had no liquor licence. So there was a real, um, interesting relationship between the police and the bar itself. So why was an uprising half a world away? Um, so [00:04:30] significant to New Zealanders? Um, but also people around the globe. Well, to give you a brief explanation, here is Peter Tatchell, um, who was recently in Wellington at the relaunch of the Rainbow Room at Parliament. So the Rainbow Room here at Parliament is actually one of the select committee rooms, um, in Parliament buildings. So it's it's really worth a visit, uh, decorated with various rainbow flags. Well, various flags, um, photographs and artwork paying tribute to, um, our Rainbow Communities. Originally [00:05:00] from Australia, Peter Tatchell is a British human rights campaigner and was co-founder of the direct action group Outrage. It was a fight back, the first major fight back against police harassment of our communities, and that was very important. But perhaps the most important thing that came out of the Stonewall uprising was the formation of the Gay Liberation Front, first in New York and then other American cities and then cities [00:05:30] across the world. All these movements had one or two things in common. First of all, they had an agenda not just of LGBT plus rights, but of social transformation. They wanted equality, but a new, higher level of equality, not mere conformity or a stimulation to what existed, but a vision of what society could be a new vision of equality [00:06:00] that would benefit not just LGBT plus people, but also straight and cisgender people as well. And early deliberation Front flyer uh, from the late 19 sixties in the US read Do you think homosexuals are revolting? You bet your sweet ass we are. So also at the relaunch of the Rainbow Room here in Wellington, uh, was Sarah McBride. And in 2012, Sarah became the first openly transgender [00:06:30] woman to work in the White House in any capacity. It is incredibly fitting that this new and improved Rainbow room will be dedicated near the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall uprising in New York City. Because one of the many, many legacies of Stonewall is the power of an individual act to reverberate around the world. And at a time when LGBT Q people find themselves under attack [00:07:00] in far too many corners of the globe, including in my home country of the United States, the actions and the work here in the New Zealand Parliament have never been more important. Because for the last several decades, you all have been at the forefront of the movement for the rights and dignity of LGBT Q people around the world, from marriage equality to the globally historic election of Georgina Bayer. You all have not just made change for people here in New Zealand. You have set the bar and [00:07:30] challenged the world to live up to our highest ideals and to be our best Selves. So right from the early days of gay liberation street marches were used to create visibility and raise awareness. And, uh, street marches were happening here in New Zealand, too. From the very early days. There's a really wonderful bit of, um, television footage from 1974 from June 1974 showing a young man, um, with his elderly father in Coromandel. And, um, they're just about to march down the street and [00:08:00] he's gonna march solo in solidarity. And it's going to be his own march, which is really, um, really quite quite special. So what is pride? Very, very interesting question. Um, here is a member of Parliament, Jan Loy, describing what pride means to her. Uh, and this is taken from February 2018. Pride is a time of celebration and affirmation for people who identify as gay, lesbian, [00:08:30] bisexual, transgender, intersex, gender, fluid, gender, queer, pansexual, asexuals, queer and questioning. And while we have come a long way as a country [00:09:00] from when homosexuality and trans people were criminalised, we are still a long way from fully realising our human rights. For many of us, our moments of peace and our moments of celebration have been hard fought for So our celebrations, in fact are often acts of defiance as well as an expression of joy, and at times they are also all [00:09:30] too often an act of mourning. The Stonewall uprising influenced many in New Zealand, but it hasn't been the only international influence. In the 19 fifties and sixties, our communities were strongly influenced by what was happening in the United Kingdom. In 1967 2 years before Stonewall, around 100 and 50 people met at Wellington Central Library to endorse the formation of the Wolfenden Association, uh, and campaigned [00:10:00] for homosexual law reform. The group's name, uh, referenced Lord Wolfenden, who a decade earlier had chaired a committee in the United Kingdom that recommended homosexual behaviour between consenting adults in private, should no longer be a criminal offence. Our WOLFENDEN association soon changed its name to the New Zealand Homosexual Law Reform Society. They published a pamphlet that claimed that there were at least 40,000 homosexual men in New Zealand who [00:10:30] need understanding rather than persecution. Well, the, um, the seeds of the law Reform Society can be traced back right the way to 1963 when it as part of Wellington's Dorian Society. A legal subcommittee was formed to explore the possibility of law reform. Now the Dorian is New Zealand's first documented organisation, uh, for homosexual men. Although homosexuality was never mentioned in the club's official documents, there have also been other international influences, [00:11:00] too. In the mid 19 eighties, uh, spokespeople from the conservative religious right in the US were brought to New Zealand, uh, to try and stop homosexual law reform In 2004. Destiny, New Zealand brought over Martin Luther King Junior's, uh, daughter to oppose civil unions. Um, she told a meeting in Auckland that her father didn't take a bullet for same sex unions. And just recently, the international protest movement against police participating in pride events has influenced pride activities here in New Zealand, [00:11:30] particularly in Auckland, debates about police and correction staff marching, tore Auckland pride apart, resulting in a smaller but powerful grassroots march 1 person that took part in both the Auckland Hashtag our march and Wellington's International Pride Parade was MP Jan Logie, the greens Um we marched in the Auckland Pride march and I've got to say, despite [00:12:00] the tensions and the sadness I have around the, um, community dividing and imploding, it was beautiful. It was from my experience. It really felt like a difference of walking and being observed by others, um, to being in a massive community, taking over and I. I found it incredibly special. And I think there was a lot of complexity in that, um, the [00:12:30] tensions and the debate, and I really hope that we can bring the best of it all together, and and I know that's gonna be hard conversations a couple that supported police marching with Des Smith and John Jolliff, the first couple in New Zealand to be given a civil union licence. John turned 90 this year, and Des turned 80. Des was one of the founders of the Lesbian and Gay Fair in Wellington, the forerunner of the out [00:13:00] in the park. Here they are at the launch of this year's Pride Festival, going back 30 or so years, there were just 10 stores and a fair in Newtown school, a fair for a fair law, and it's come a long way thank goodness. Just remembering the very first fear and the battle. I had to hold it. A Newtown school hall. The headmaster said no. But there was a woman on the on part of the administration of the Newtown School, and she said [00:13:30] yes. Did you ever imagine that you would be able to walk down Courtney Place or on the waterfront and see Rainbow flags and go past the airport and see a huge big rainbow on the front? No. No, I didn't think I didn't even think about that. It was bad enough trying to get our flags and things around the Newtown. And I remember the taking the posters around to different shops to display and the flack I got from some of them. And so will you both be marching in this year's Pride parade? [00:14:00] We will, We will, definitely. Oh, yes. We'll be there. We did march on the first one. We got, uh, rotten tomato chucked at us. And I'm very, very happy to march with any policeman in uniform. I've got a police hat to wear in the parade and a new, uh, New York Police Department Jockstrap. So that's all you're wearing a jockstrap and a hand. Uh, no. No one wants to see an old guy like me. But what What? Good idea. [00:14:30] In their lifetimes, Dez and John have seen attitudes towards LGBTI brain that people will change dramatically. And so too has the late, uh, Donna de Milo, uh, saw a huge change in her lifetime. In an interview from 2012, Dana remembers how poorly transgender people were treated back in the 19 sixties and seventies. Quote Transgender people were the face of gayness because gay men could run and hide behind their male clothes. We were the ones who got picked on. [00:15:00] So Donna was born in Auckland in 1946. She ran away from home on Queen's birthday weekend when she was just 13. Uh, she moved to Wellington as a teenager in the 19 sixties, sleeping for the first two weeks in the toilets of the uh Wellington Railway station. She worked as a waitress at Carmen Rue La nightclub, as well as doing sex work. In 2012. Dana talked about how she and others were targeted by some in the police force. If you're different, [00:15:30] you don't go near a policeman because they're God unto themselves. You know, there's one here that used to arrest me nearly every night of the week, you know, take me to the cells and make me dress and undress for every person that worked there. And then to make it his business, I'd fall asleep to wait till the next lot came on, and he'd make me wake me up and make me do it all over again. And there was nothing I could do about it. No matter how I protested, there was nothing I could do about it. He was God. You couldn't if you they he'd [00:16:00] say, um, get in the car And I'd say, But I've done nothing wrong. He'd say, Get in the car. I'd say I've done nothing wrong. If you don't get in the car, I'll have you up for for hampering a policeman in his line of duty. So I get in the car and he'd make his drivers because he always you had underlings with them and they'd be the ones that he'd make. Arrest me, not him. And he'd make the guy speed off. And of course, we're talking sixties, you know, 63 456. And there was no seat belts, and he'd tear make him tear around at 80 miles [00:16:30] an hour around the streets. And I hated speed. And he he knew your Achilles' heels, you see, And he knew I hated speed. Unless I'm in charge of it and I can control it. And he'd be abusing me, calling me a shirt lifter, which I didn't even know what it meant. A poo pusher and calling me names. And does your mother know you're a fucking freak and you know, and you fuck ass and I, I don't do that sort of thing. You know, All this used to really upset me, and then he'd make him pull into an alleyway and turn on the lights. Of course, it's dark in there and I turn [00:17:00] on the inside light and you can see yourself in the in the window of the car and he'd push my face and and push it and push it and push it into the window until I said fuck off or pig or something. Go! Gotcha! In a recent sense, I arrested arrested, you know, that's what they called you. It the Amanda Lahore had previously recounted a story about the brutal beating of Dana in police custody and how Carmen Repe took Dana [00:17:30] back out onto Cuba Street dressed to the nines, and Carmen said to her, Don't look down. No matter the pain. No matter the tears don't look down. Carmen's legacy is still felt strongly here in Wellington. The rainbow crossing on Dixon Street was launched in tribute to her in October 2018. She appears on the pedestrian crossing lights in Cuba Street, and some of her most significant were gifted to papa after her death in 2011. Carmen's legacy [00:18:00] also lists brightly in the people who knew her. People like Georgina by Georgina said that one of the proudest moments as a member of Parliament was when she and MP S, Tim Barnett and Chris Carter welcomed Carmen back to Parliament in 2006 to meet the prime minister and the leader of the opposition. This happened during Carmen's trip back from Sydney for her 70th birthday. Her birthday celebrations were held at the boat shed by Frank Kitts Park. [00:18:30] Carmen was escorted by two muscle men who were her personal servants for the night, there was a guard of honour. The Australian High commissioner spoke. The mayor of Wellington presented her with the keys to the city. Former vice squad detectives presented her with the order of the pink policeman's hat. A real police helmet painted pink, complete with feathers. Well, uh, two people that, uh, regularly performed at Carmen's nightclub Laval were, uh, Johnny Cross and Tony [00:19:00] Roger. Uh, Johnny also used to take part in the devotion parades, Uh, with his dogs in the 19 nineties. Well, my pets. Yes, I I'm rather crazy. They're They're not really my pets. They're my Children. Um, they they're Maltese Maltese dogs. Absolutely divine. I would take them on the floats when I was doing the devotion parades in Wellington. Um, they always look glamorous. They always sat in well with the white fox fur because they look the [00:19:30] same as but they were alive, you see? Yes, they they're rather wonderful, but, um very, very gay looking dogs. They are? Yeah. Yeah. It seems as though as they pass on to their reward in heaven, I seem to be blessed or whatever you like to call it with more that arrive. I think word has got around that people who can't cope with them anymore, they know that there is somebody who can, and I seem to [00:20:00] collect them. Yeah, well, Johnny worked quietly and tirelessly as a volunteer with local HIV AIDS communities. He did one on one support but also could be seen regularly collecting on World Aids Day, often farewell. People with a signature have a gay day. The community response to New Zealand HIV AIDS ramped up in 1983 when Bruce Burnett, an early activist [00:20:30] and educator, returned to Auckland from San Francisco. So, uh, Bruce began a one-man tour of the country attempting to educate gay men on AIDS. Running parallel to Bruce's tour was the formation of the nationwide AIDS support Network. It was established by Bruce and other community members around the country and in Wellington by people like Bill Logan and Phil Parkinson. By 1985 the AIDS support network had gained government funding and had under undergone an organisational shift and so became the New Zealand AIDS [00:21:00] Foundation. A couple of years later, local journalist Tom McClean began documenting his life with HIV A. I DS in his book. If I should die. Tom noted that in New Zealand in the late 19 eighties, the life expectancy of a person with aid after their first bout of pneumonia was just nine months. Less than 10% of those those diagnosed with AIDS in New Zealand in 1990 were alive five years later. Well, here's, uh, Richard Binge talking about, [00:21:30] uh, what it was like in the late 19 eighties here in Wellington and also about the New Zealand AIDS Memorial Quilt. So Richard worked at the New Zealand AIDS Foundation's Athena Centre and was one of the organisers for the beacons of Hope memorials, um, displays of the New Zealand AIDS Memorial Quilt and also those devotion festivals and marches in the 19 nineties. We didn't know who was going to die next. We didn't know who was sick next. There was a very strong sense of urgency, [00:22:00] emergency guilt, shame, fear, shock, loss and grief. And what happens internationally is that when terrible things happen to people like when tragedy happens in communities, people get together. When there's [00:22:30] no cure, When there's no answers and there's nothing else to do, you hold on to one another, and it creates groupings and holdings and doings. And so when the first quilt was made, which Kevin referred to, was an expression of loss and grief. But above [00:23:00] all the need to remember that his lover ever lived, because if his body has been taken away and cremated within minutes, you have to have something to hold on to. So the New Zealand AIDS Memorial Quilt was established by the people with AIDS Collective, uh, which actually started here in Wellington. And it was a Wellington and, uh, Daniel Fielding and [00:23:30] others who established that in the in the late 19 eighties. The first panel of the New Zealand quilt was made by Daniel for his partner, Peter, who died in 1988 Another Wellington who worked tirelessly in the area of HIV A I DS, uh was sister Paula Brett Kelly. Uh, in this audio clip, Drew Hadwin, who was also heavily involved in the devotion festivals and Beacon of Hope memorials in the 19 nineties remembers Sister Paula. [00:24:00] I remember the day I met her. I'd sort of seen her in the centre and thought, Oh, is it? You know, she seems a nice, older person, and she's always said hello, but I'd never had a proper interaction with her. And one day we'd, um, turn up for the condom packing. And there were none of the other a centre staff there. So she was on the phones, and I just about fell over. I heard this beautiful, smaller, older woman just say, Well, yes, dear, but I don't [00:24:30] think you were licking the toilet seat. Perhaps you were. And then she, you know, started to describe rimming. And I just stood with my mouth wide open going Wow. Um, I think the, um Wellington Rainbow Communities and particularly the centre and all of us were so lucky that she was one of our team because she had humour. But she also had a real knack of getting [00:25:00] people to come on board and getting people to do stuff. So Sister Paula reminds us of the importance of allies. Well, two churches that have been strong allies for rainbow communities in Wellington uh, Saint Peter's and Willis Street and Saint Andrews on the terrace. And this is a a lovely image from, uh, 2016. This is the glamour phones performing Gareth Fars During these days, Uh, a choral work written to mark the 30th [00:25:30] anniversary of homosexual law reform. In 1975 the very Reverend John Murray became minister at Saint Andrews and oversaw the church as a centre for social justice. And more recently, the Reverend Doctor, Margaret Maman was prominent in fighting for marriage equality. But just listen to how the Reverend Doctor Susan Jones opened a recent service at Saint Andrews. This is from last year, Good morning, and welcome to worship at Saint Andrews on the terrace. Our service [00:26:00] begins with the gathering words which are inside the front cover of the order in this place. All are welcome. The tall, the the shy and the out there in this place, all are accepted sis and trans gay, lesbian, straight and bisexual. In this place, all are loved simply because we are all [00:26:30] human beings in this place. All are honoured for the struggle between commemoration and celebration goes on for all of us all of the time. And just imagine, you know, if all churches were as as open as Saint Andrews, well, local rainbow communities have had other high profile allies. Allies, too, including many of the recent mayors of Wellington. [00:27:00] So we think of Justin Lester, Celia Wade Brown, Mark Plums and Fran Wilde. And, of course, Fran, as a member of Parliament, was instrumental in passing the homosexual law reform bill of introducing it into Parliament and then seeing it passed in the mid 19 eighties. And there was some lovely shots. This is, uh, Bill Logan, Fran and Alison Laurie, who, uh, were really prominent activists and really fought really hard for homosexual law reform. This was taken in 2011 and the the, um, in the midst of [00:27:30] telling, uh uh, homosexual law reform stories at there are some wonderful images. One of the hallmarks of homos sexual law reform in New Zealand was the way groups worked together for a common cause. Here's Elizabeth, who would later found I was part of a coalition then of political groups that would work really closely together. So Maori pakeha Pacific island with all sorts of different political viewpoints, and the real [00:28:00] value for me was that model that said, we always looked at how we had similar interests and how we could work together rather than concentrating on what was different and, uh, and made it difficult to work. And so what we would do is is each of us would identify what were the key needs in our particular areas and our particular interests. And then the other groups will come together to support what was happening around law reform [00:28:30] and basic human rights was something that affected all of us, no matter how we identified. And so I think still, to this day, that is how II I look at when I'm thinking around political action is always looking to how we connect, how we can work together, how we can support, uh, the issues that affect us in different ways and also recognise that people need their own space. People need to be able to meet as Maori only as women only as lesbian or [00:29:00] queer or as trans, uh, to have the space to a just the support. Just to be able to free to be, to be yourself, to be free to be yourself. But also, um, to get that clear headspace, you need to do your own thinking and planning. But then, for to be able to come out to your allies and say right, this is the focus for this and this is how we can move forward. And I think I still use that model today. That sounds sounds fantastic. It sounds very, um, sounds very constructive. [00:29:30] We got a lot of work done, I. I from a very young age of just thought my life activism isn't a thing I do in my spare time. It is my life and everything I do folds into that. As I like to say, What do we get up for in the morning, if not to change the world? There are many, uh, local LGBTI rainbow organisations that have been established and then dispersed over the over the many decades. Some, like heterosexuals unafraid of gays or hug uh, were formed around [00:30:00] homosexual law reform. Others like Gap, the Gay Association of Professionals, which is now called Rainbow Wellington, uh was about networking is about networking and social activities. The QUER Avengers formed earlier this decade after there was a A an increase in quob violence. Um, on the street, uh, the lesbian radio programme, which is now called quilted bananas, uh began as a way of community building in a time before social media and smartphones. Uh, we had sports teams like the Amazons and the Crazy [00:30:30] nights. And then there are newer support and advocacy agencies, uh, like gender minorities and inside out. And then there are also individuals that have done both small and large actions. So people like Marie Mitchell, um, Chris, Pauline Simmons, B Arthur and Betty Armstrong and from the early part of the 20th century, artists like, um, Robert Gant and the writer Katherine Mansfield. If we go back 30 years to the mid 19 eighties, uh, during homosexual law reform, [00:31:00] um, there were were many inspired, um, individual acts, for example, uh, activist Neil Costello having a passionate kiss on, uh, Lampton qua in the middle of rush hour traffic, um, or Julie and Maxine Wilkinson, who you'd see in this image here, um, sharing a passionate kiss during an anti law reform rally in Wellington Town Hall. And this made it to the, um, the paper the next day. Well, there have also been a number of other significant pieces of legislation that have had a real impact [00:31:30] on LGBTI Rainbow communities. The Human Rights Act outlawed discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, amongst other things. The civil Unions Act gave same sex and de facto couples, uh, the chance to be legally recognised. The Prostitution Reform Act, decriminalised sex work, affording sex workers the same rights and protections as any other worker. The historic convictions expungement legislation gave men and their families the opportunity to wipe convictions [00:32:00] for certain consensual homosexual activity. The provocation defence legislation was repealed, removing the gay panic defence from our legal system. And in 2012, Louisa Wall's marriage amendment legislation was introduced. Well, uh, this audio clip features, uh, voices of young activists. They were young back in 2012, um, fighting for marriage equality, Um, and it ends with the late Helen Kelly, uh, talking on the steps of Parliament. [00:32:30] My name is Brodie Packer, and I'm very, very for the bill. It's just, you know, a basic human equal, right? My name is Josh, and I think that it is an extremely necessary step to the future of properly cutting out homophobia. Hi, my name is Cassie, and I am in support of the bill because I think that is one really important step in gaining fuller quality for people. I'm Yeah, and I think it's fantastic I'm a lesbian and I guess it kind of just makes sense, like in terms of not being discriminated against [00:33:00] for something that is not wrong or not in your control in any way. And I just I know I think it's just time. It's time for us to move forward. 68, 2468. Not this, thank you. And the CTU is so proud to be invited to speak to this very important rally on this historic and wonderful day in New Zealand's history. [00:33:30] This legislation is not only important for what it stands for the equality and the fairness that it brings, but it's also a chance for us to send a message, a message to New Zealand young people that actually what is important. What is worth standing up for is love is friendship is equality and is fairness. That's what's contained in this. And if more laws were based based on those principles, this country would be a better place. [00:34:00] I recently, uh, went to hear a speaker from the South African apartheid movement. He was talking about the wonderful contribution New Zealand has made to end that terrible system so far away when apartheid was oppressing millions and millions of black people, people there. The thing that struck me, as he described that system, was he said, the law, the law of the country told us where we could eat what buses we could catch, what schools we went to. My God. [00:34:30] It even said who we could love and who we could marry. And he thanked this country for bringing an end to that sort of discrim discrimination there. And today, this parliament a time to celebrate this parliament, it will bring an end to the discrimination here. So on those same steps and the steps of Parliament in 2004, uh, MP, Georgina Baer was confronting members of Destiny Church over whether we should have [00:35:00] civil unions in New Zealand in New Zealand or not. And I'm happy to stare you in the eye. Why do you hate people like us? Be real Christians? I've known much more Christian charity from other people than what I've seen from you today. Well, I'm gonna come and look at each and every one of you. I don't mind [00:35:30] at all. Your hatred is totally intolerable. Why do you deny law abiding New Zealand citizens who happen to have a difference the same rights as yourself. How dare you use the cloak of Christianity when you are in to your Children? Prejudice, discrimination toward people like me, gays and lesbians and other people [00:36:00] who live differently. But abide the law and pay their taxes. Why do you do this to us? You're not going to win. You haven't. I have trust in New Zealanders that they will be fair minded as they always have been, because the democracy that I live in made it possible for somebody like me to be here in this place, serving the privilege of service to people in New Zealand. And you would deny me [00:36:30] rights. Why do you do that? Georgina Baer Georgina was born and raised in Wellington. In 1995 she was elected mayor of of the Carterton District, uh, the first transgender person in the world to hold a mayoralty. And then, in 1999 she moved from local government to becoming a member of Parliament, the first openly transgender member of parliament in the world. Among other things, Georgina fought for prostitution reform, [00:37:00] civil unions and gender gender identity legislation. More recently, she's travelled to the United Kingdom to speak at the Oxford Union. Well, we'll end, uh, this first presentation, with a clip from the author Andrew Reynolds, speaking in Wellington, talking about the influence of the LGBTI Rainbow politicians, including Georgina. That and the influence that they've had on the international landscape [00:37:30] outside of these boundaries. Outside of this coastland, there isn't a person I know who is not Trans or who's not gender non conforming or intersex. Who doesn't look to Georgina Baer as the iconic Gandhi of the movement. Being the first in the world again is a remarkable achievement, and her courage, her tenacity, her authenticity transforms hearts and minds. [00:38:00] I don't want to be melodramatic, but we know that queer kids around the world, in places that are less affirming than in New Zealand, struggle every day with anxiety, with depression, with suicidal thoughts. But we know that when they see somebody in legitimate positions of power around them, they are reassured. They feel validated. They feel worthy. They feel they can aspire to something in [00:38:30] the future. So every queer out elected politician in the newspaper on television is life affirming and to many millions of kids. That is life changing. And in many cases, that is life saving. Because you see yourself as an authentic, real, legitimate person member of humanity, and you see a pathway out of the difficulties. [00:39:00] Andrew Reynolds talking at the launch of his book, The Children of Harvey Milk. Uh, the book looked at rainbow politicians internationally, including many New Zealand ones. Um, and their influence. Well, hopefully this first presentation has given you a bit of a taster of some of the amazing, um, people and events that have happened within New Zealand and within specifically in Wellington. Um, and we would love to, um, hear your views. Um, after will's presentation, there will be a chance for you to comment and and share. [00:39:30] Um, and we'd love to to kind of hear your, um, ideas as well. Um, but for now, uh, we're gonna do a very quick change of the power point and, uh, then introduce, uh, will. So thank you so much. Uh, from Roger and myself for that first presentation. Yeah. Hello, everyone. [00:40:00] Um, thank you all for coming. Uh, so we're all here today? Uh, because in New York, 50 years and one day ago, on June 28th, 1969 police raided the Stonewall Inn. This was a routine practise designed to intimidate the undesirables who frequented the bar. Um, at a time when police brutality against queer people was not only the norm but was an accepted and even celebrated part of of means of societal control by the heterosexual [00:40:30] majority, the scene of police violence. The rating of the bar itself was all very normal for 1969 but as we know it was what happened next. That wasn't as the cops were forcing people into police vans, the patrons that were hanging around outside of the bar began to throw pocket change at the arresting officers. Before too long, spare change was followed by bottles and then by bricks. A crowd of angry queer people had gathered, and with the majority [00:41:00] of the patrons now outside of the bar, they were able to force the police to retreat back into the Stonewall Inn. A tactical team eventually had to be called in to rescue the police squad. The street battle continued for another two nights and a blast of radical collectivity, trans and gender nonconforming people. Queers of colour. Butchers, drag queens, hair fairies, homeless street youth, sex workers and others took up arms and fought back against the generations of [00:41:30] oppression that they had been forced to survive. 50 years later, on May 12th, 2019, police raided a queer bookshop by day, bar by night named Hiss and hyenas in Melbourne. At no stage did I. Did they identify themselves as the police. They stormed into the apartment above the shop where the owners were sleeping, shining torches in their faces and making it impossible for the owners to identify [00:42:00] the intruders panicked. Nick Demopoulos, one of the bar's co-owner, fled and was fled, Uh, thinking that he was, uh, thinking that it was an anti gay home invasion, and he was subsequently arrested on the street to quote the bars. Other co-owner speaking on Demopoulos path. He said he could only see boots and rifles and was assuming he was going to be bashed or shot. He said he thought he was about to be killed. He sustained major bruising on his [00:42:30] head. His arm was torn from its socket by the police and shattered in several places and and he has since lost full use of it. The police had mistakenly I had mistakenly identified Demopoulos as a suspect in a home invasion and Carjacking case. They apologised for the incident, but denied claims that they had failed to identify themselves, arguing that the incident was recorded. No such recording has been since been made available. [00:43:00] So here we have two cases of unwarranted administrative surveillance, brutal force and trauma at the hands of the police 50 years apart. What has changed in my opinion? Most significantly, the reaction to it the ways that anti queer violence at the hands of the police is popularly understood has changed dramatically between stonewall and now, despite the fact that I would argue that a lot of the violence itself hasn't [00:43:30] in the case of his and hyenas, they go fund me, raised $12,000. The local queer community expressed an outpouring of support and they gained some coverage in international media. However, there was certainly no mass collective rage, no response calling to fight back, and the story never made the front pages, nor was there much of an attempt to understand the raid in the broader context of the systematic violence that queer people do still face under the relentless [00:44:00] force of the prison industrial complex. You might be critical that I've chosen to speak about two events that both happened overseas. You might argue that the police are not like that here. Certainly, I think it's important not to make generalisations or universal organisations when it comes to history. And anyone who knows me know that I can complain endlessly about the aist historical trend that americanizes so much of queer history. But the very fact that you're all here today for an event [00:44:30] titled Our Stonewall shows we often find solidarity internationally because we share the same sites of trauma, pain and oppression. So why did we riot in 1969 but not in 2019? That requires a very complex answer, but I think that a large part of it has to do with the lengths that the police force have gone to use a queer narrative of history. For their own ends, the police engage [00:45:00] in what is known as image work, which is defined by academic Emma K Russell as the activities the police force engage in to project positive meanings of policing in order to counteract the negative press resulting from police. Abuse of power and excessive use of force. Police involvement and pride is part of this image work. The visibility of police at pride not only reinforces the idea that police are welcoming and inclusive, but it also contributes to the normalisation [00:45:30] of queerness as something that can be continually policed and regulated. Police participation and pride today is positioned in opposition to past practises like that at Stonewall and thereby constructed as being, in contrast, more modern, adaptive and tolerant. Yes, police may have been like that in the past. They may have once been violent, but they've come so far and they're just not like that anymore. Homophobia and transphobia is constructed [00:46:00] as a memory of unresolved pain for queer people, a memory that threatens the possibility of building positive police rainbow relations. The onus is placed on queer people to put these violences behind us so that we can move forward. The task becomes to get over it as though when you're over it, it is gone. But you can't get over what is still happening. Some queer people are more likely [00:46:30] than others to be the target of continued violence. Those people are most often of colour and trans. By their own admission, the police have work to do. The police continue to use disproportionate levels of physical force against Maori. As of 2017, Maori are 7.7 times more likely than to be victims of police brutality. Additionally, controversial double bunking prison policies introduced in 2010 have put transgender inmates at higher risks [00:47:00] of assault despite arguing that they are actively trying to improve rainbow relations. In 2016, the police decided to drop their compulsory sexual orientation and gender identity training for staff. And in 2018, when asked by the Auckland Pride Board not to wear uniforms as a gesture of solidarity towards those for whom the uniform represented violence and trauma, they refused and dropped out of the parade. And yet in Wellington [00:47:30] they marched as an organisation in uniform and in marching. The police asserted themselves as queer allies, but the statistics and the lived experiences simply don't back this up. This kind of image work was also really clear with regards to the inclusion of the defence force in Wellington Pride, who had also pulled out of Auckland pride earlier in the year. It was the first time that a chief of the New Zealand defence force had marched in a pride parade in New [00:48:00] Zealand and it's one of the few times that it's ever happened globally. The defence force was celebrating 25 years since they began allowing openly homosexual men and women to join the forces in 1994. Many people worked really hard to achieve that milestone. There are plenty of caring, well meaning queer people who enjoy their jobs in institutions such as these which have an anti queer history and believe that the best course of action is to try and initiate change from within. [00:48:30] In many cases they've put a lot on the line to nudge their organisations along the path to acceptance and I'll never understand the weight of that sacrifice. I'm not at all trying to knock those people. Squadron leader Stu Pearce commented that knowing we have the support from the very top is encouraging and empowering and sets the tone for an organisation that values all of its people no matter what point of difference might exist, and that's his perspective. And frankly, [00:49:00] I can understand how wonderful it does feel to feel that you are working in a place that accepts you for who you are. But that is only one perspective. When the Auckland Pride board made the decision to ban police uniforms, not the people under the uniforms themselves, they did so because they recognised that we need to balance these various perspectives and needs of our community. It was a compromise that was made after extensive community consultation that involved police [00:49:30] representatives, because the Pride Board recognised that all of us who are queer have a right to celebrate our pride in an environment where they feel safe. They determined that the inclusion of uniformed police officers meant ignoring the safety of some of our most marginalised community members Maori, Pacifica and Trans people. Most especially banning uniforms was meant as a sign of solidarity, recognising that not everyone has had the same positive experiences [00:50:00] with the police because it's what the uniforms represent that matters. It's what the tank represents that matters. One attendee at Wellington Pride expressed on Facebook their feelings of profound distress and anxiety when the tank came rolling down the street, having grown up in a family that had been victims of war overseas and recognising the tank only as a symbol of death, destruction and power. No matter how many rainbow flags you put on it, a tank will have always [00:50:30] been designed as something that was intended to kill people. Corporate involvement and pride is also of concern Among such business. Fletcher's construction We're also at the Wellington parade. Meanwhile, their coworkers continued to plan the government approved development of housing near the protected Stone Fields Reserve at I, having recently cut off power to those who have lived there for the past three years. In protest of this continued act of colonial [00:51:00] violence, the government and Fletchers have both been criticised by the UN for failing to uphold treaty obligations and contravening the UN Declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples. Not only this, but Fletcher and other corporations like Coca Cola, Russell, McVeigh, Vodafone, Westpac and Skycity have recently been scrutinised for their use of the rainbow tech as nothing more than a marketing scheme and mask behind which severe homophobic and transphobic bullying [00:51:30] occurs. An RNZ article published in May detailed severe cases of homophobia and transphobia at these businesses to the detriment of queer workers, mental health and safety. Several workers interviewed from these businesses had been bullied so badly it drove them to contemplate suicide. One employee at Russell McVeigh described the Rainbow Tech as a farce, arguing that having a rainbow friendly workplace is not about having some workshops [00:52:00] with a few staff once, but rather it's an ongoing thing. It is worth noting that all of these rainbow tech accredited organisations dropped out of Auckland pride following the board's decision to ban police uniforms. I feel that this is a clear indicator of where their loyalties lie. This is known as pink washing, the process whereby corporations, state institutions and even whole countries seek to improve their public image by presenting [00:52:30] themselves as queer friendly without actually implementing any meaningful change. It is part of a larger problem known as Homo Norma. The approach to queer rights that, to quote queer theorist Lisa Duggan, does not contest dominant heteronormative assumptions and institutions but upholds and sustains them. While promising the possibility of a demobilised gay constituency and a privatised, depoliticized gay culture [00:53:00] anchored in domesticity and consumption What this means is that as more rights for queer people are gained and there is more straight acceptance of them, the challenge becomes. How do we maintain Queerness's essential queerness? How do we ensure that the activist roots of pride aren't assimilated into a globalised, homogenous, straight dominated, consumer driven culture? While the straight majority now accepts queer people, there is an implicit [00:53:30] assumption that we will act in acceptable ways as defined by them those of us who continue not to do so, particularly trans people and most especially trans people of colour, whether or not by choice are then those who are most continually placed in danger, critiquing rainbow capitalism and all the rainbow flags around town that it produces can be really difficult because who doesn't want to see rainbow flags everywhere? I only came out five [00:54:00] years ago, and I can hardly imagine how I would have felt when I was 17, frightened beyond words with parents, hardly speaking to me. Seeing all of these shops flying rainbow flags, it would have made me feel seen. Sometimes it still does, and it makes so many others feel so happy, and our ancestors, the Queer Generations before me fought so hard for us. Lives were lost for us. People fought tooth and nail for me. And because of that, I am able to enjoy [00:54:30] the wonder of walking through a city decked out in rainbow flags celebrating the thing about myself, which before now was openly shunned and hated by society. And it is so hard to understand how to create a meaningful dialogue about that progress, one that appreciates fully what our elders have done for us while still giving us the space to critique what work yet still needs to be done. I think that part of the problem is that I will never, ever be able to truly [00:55:00] fully appreciate what my queer elders have done for me because I was never there. I was never there, and I can study it and study it as much as I like. I'm obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with queer history. I'm obsessed with understanding, trying to understand what my queer elders have done for my generation and how what I can do for them. And I've been chasing this intergenerational connection and community, and I still will never be able to truly understand the sacrifices [00:55:30] that were made and what it really meant to be there. So all I can do is speak to my own experiences. I consider myself lucky because although I am Trans, I am white and I am red as male and that does mean that I have certain privileges. Compared to my trans siblings, I am not often made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe. I was lured to Wellington on the promise that it was a queer city [00:56:00] and that I would feel at home here. When Wellington City Council announced their plans for a rainbow crossing on Cuba Street, I was really excited. I thought it was gonna be a great way to pay homage to Wellington's queer history. And I was pleased at the opening to hear Grant Robertson talk not only about Carmen but also to and highlight the leadership of trans women of colour in our communities and in our history. But it wasn't long before the crossing was covered in black skid [00:56:30] marks, and this crossing, which was designed to make people like me feel happy and safe, very quickly became for me just another reminder of how much people can hate me. I see it, and I see the aggressive skid marks on it, and I remember all of the times that people have yelled slurs at me from cars. I remember how terrified I felt when a transphobic ex coworker threatens me from across the road. I remember my friend [00:57:00] showing me the broken glass on the street outside of their flat, where men had thrown bottles at them the night before because they couldn't tell if they were a boy or a girl. I remember the smile on the face of the man who wouldn't stop beating me, and how he and his friends laughed with each other while their boots crushed into my back. The crossing has just become for me, another site of anti queer violence, another reminder of how much people hate us. [00:57:30] Antique violence still happens, but we are no longer allowed to call for change. We are only allowed to celebrate diversity. We are told to be patient, to bring people with us, and that this is about finding the middle ground, that the police and the Corporates are trying, that they'll stop trying if we exclude them that they have a right to march with their logos too. But this language of balancing competing rights ignores the fact that there are people who are actively campaigning [00:58:00] in New Zealand to remove preexisting rights for trans and queer people. It ignores the fact that the issue of anti queer violence still exists and it is life threatening. We're told we've come so far. If we push any further, we'll push people away. But we are not given access to resources or to education. We are given representation. We are sold a product, the illusion of equality. And it is ultimately empty. [00:58:30] Absolutely in so many ways, US queer millennials have never had it so good. We are the generation who will see HIV eradicated. We have to worry far less about getting beaten up just for walking down the street. We've gained visibility and we have the opportunity to even have conversations similar to this one on the front pages of our national media, and we owe it all to the generations that have come for us. But our fight is not over. [00:59:00] It looks in many ways very different in 2019 than it did in 1969 or 1986 But the point is is that it is still raging. To suggest that queer millennials don't face brutalities or dangers at all is simply preposterous. In particular, I really want to highlight today that there is still a global epidemic of violence against trans people and most especially against trans women of colour. [00:59:30] In a there is a movement to criminalise and dehumanise our existence. This primarily takes two strands. In one camp, we have the classic right wing extremist movement, spearheaded traditionally by the likes of fundamentalist groups like Family First and Destiny Church. But now, complemented by the efforts of neo Nazis such as the Dominion movement, the Second Strand is in some ways more nefarious as they come from our own community. They are known as trans exclusionary radical feminists, [01:00:00] named as such because they exclude trans women trans people from their definition of feminism. They include groups like Speak Up for Women who advocate for a twisted feminism that argues that in imitating women, trans women are raping womankind and placing women and girls in danger. This is despite the fact that international and local research confirms time and time and again that transgender women experience far higher rates of [01:00:30] discrimination and violence than non transgender women. TFS are a small but vocal minority with a relatively powerful media presence. Member of Parliament Louisa Wall spoke at their last public event. Their current campaign is against the births, deaths, marriages, relationships, registration bill, which simply makes it easier for trans people to affirm and their legally and legally document our correct gender. They criticise this bill because [01:01:00] they believe that trans women are actually men. And that and that, uh, and allowing people to self determine their gender Biology will become meaningless and predatory men will be allowed to change their recorded gender willy nilly in order to prey on women and girls in bathrooms. I use the word believe because, despite claiming to be evidence based on their website, speak up for women, never actually ever, ever cite any evidence to back any of this up. Although trans exclusionary [01:01:30] radical feminists generally claim to be left wing, they are heavily supported by and work with traditionalist right wingers like family. First, their most recent vocal attack on us was by an affiliate of family first and registered secondary school teacher Helen Houghton, whose petition to stop transgender teaching in schools, was presented to Parliament in April and gained over 35,000 signatures. They claim that teaching Children about gender promotes gender discordant [01:02:00] behaviour and thereby interferes with nature. Most of the time, when I'm asked to give a speech, it's generally about queer history, and I go to great pains to tell happy stories since popular tellings of our history, so love to focus on only the tragic parts. This is one of the first times that I've ever been asked to speak about what I think about today, and I wanted to write something that was equally exciting. [01:02:30] And of course, there are loads of groups who are doing such important work that I could highlight gender minorities facing down. All of this overwhelming transphobia coming from every side intersex trust, a N fighting the so often unrecognised fight for intersex lives to, as Gareth and Roger said, really holding the community together and doing incredible advocacy work and bringing with them their most wonderful songs. Gareth and Roger themselves, who work tirelessly [01:03:00] to preserve the voices of our community and in doing so, enact a very powerful form of resistance, refusing to allow our voices to go unheard, undocumented and erased. Just earlier this year, I was privileged enough to go to inside Out Shift, and I was so inspired by the Ranga, aged 15 to 20 who were all so sweet and so lovely and clearly so comfortable in this queer safe space that the organisers and volunteers had so lovingly put together. They spoke so eloquently [01:03:30] of the issues that concern them, and I'm so excited to work alongside them in the near future. I don't mean to sound hopeless because I absolutely am not. But I felt that the most important thing that I could do today was to underscore the fact that we have not yet achieved liberation that is yet to come, and we owe it to our community members today to keep pushing forward. I want to return to a quote I had on the screen before I began talking. John Nestle, a lesbian [01:04:00] activist and historian from the United States, wrote. One of the lessons I have learned in trying to live with history is that for every repression we have found a suitable form of resistance. Our history is the chronicle of our vitality our passion, our cunning and at many times our integrity. We must now work out a way by which we can honour both the old and the new. We must look for connections rather than judgments. I hope in my reflections today [01:04:30] that I have honoured this commitment to speak without judgement. But instead, with a sense of urgency and with insistence on the on honouring the voices of both the old and the new, there is surely no better way to honour all of the work that the generations have come before mine and what they have achieved for our benefit than by continuing to fight for what is right. We fight today because they fought for us yesterday. The revolution our people deserve is not yet [01:05:00] concluded. Thank you for inviting me to speak today, Um, and for all of you for coming to listen. OK, well, I have so many thoughts going on in my head at the moment. It's gonna take me weeks to [01:05:30] to unpack that all. Um thank you will. So much. That was That was really thought provoking. I, um we really appreciate that. Thank you. Um, now is your opportunity. If you'd like to, uh, say a few words if you have any thoughts on, uh what what you've heard today, uh, any thoughts on where we're at? Um, please, you're more than welcome to come up and share. Um, just a reminder that, um, this is being recorded and will be put online. If you don't want to be recorded, just say so. And we'll edit it out later. But, [01:06:00] um, does anyone want to come up? Um, I just wanted to thank you guys. It was really amazing. Um, you got me crying. Um, I guess one thing that like I always want to hear more about is the place of, like, um, indigenous ideas about gender and sexuality and how they fit into our, um, narrative of liberation. [01:06:30] Um, I just don't know enough about it. Um, But what I do know from hearing people like is that things used to be real good before colonisation. Um, yeah, that's just my comment. Thank you, everyone, uh, just like to thank [01:07:00] you both for your presentations. Really thought provoking. And also it was it was great to look at some of the memories that were up on the screen. I think at this, Uh, I'm gonna change tech slightly in terms of my response today. It's, uh, the time of at the moment. And so it's one of those occasions where we not only remember the past, but we look to the future about our aspirations for [01:07:30] the societies that we want to live in. And I think these are some of the things that have come through today. Um, and I am so for me. Um, what means is that I have a, um I have a connection both to the LGBTI side of the community, and I have a connection to the the Maori side of the community. And so, for me, [01:08:00] um, is is about, um, realising that there are things missing in my life that are that have not come to fruition yet. So what that means is that on my Maori side, there are things that need to be addressed that makes it safe for me as to exist in this country and in the same way as a gay person. [01:08:30] There are things that need to be realised for me to feel safe in this community. And so, um, I wanted to, um just reflect that the, uh that the revolution is never complete because we could go through our different lives. And we have different aspirations at our different times during our lives. So that's why I think it will never be complete, because our aspirations will [01:09:00] always aim for higher things in our society. And I just wanted to reflect that back in response to the the um today from the perspective of of Indigenous, Yes. Perhaps there were times when things were were great, but I'm looking forward now in terms of how it should be going forward. So for me, I know that there are issues within our Maori culture that need to be addressed in terms of how safe is it to be who [01:09:30] we are on the really, and that's a big challenge, um, ahead of us, not quite sure how that's gonna go. But we all have our different voices. And we all have our different, um, lives. And I guess where we intersect is where we come together as a community to progress it. So I agree on some things at high levels and other other things. There are so many things going on. I think Well, [01:10:00] I'll just concentrate on the thing that I can can, um, make some influence on Thank you, Kevin. Anyone else like to you? I'll go on the record, but my thoughts are very much in flux. So if somebody plays us back to me to 50 years from now, I'll be long [01:10:30] dead. Um, first, um, just do remember how far we have come in nine. When the Homosexual Law Reform Society was founded, a Christchurch branch was formed and my mother was a foundation member. Please don't clap because [01:11:00] she was in denial about me and I was a mummy's boy. And so I was in denial about me for a very long time. But at that meeting, um, somebody asked rhetorically Now, say, here now, my mother always used to say, Always answer a rhetorical question. [01:11:30] Never answer an implied question like somebody's been another captain. Well, somebody asked rhetorically, you know, to indicate how bad things were, who here would stand up and say I am homosexual? And as my mother reported it to me, she said, And you know, some fool got up and said, I am [01:12:00] No, you don't that one full. Think of that one fool in 1967. Was it, uh, how brave they were, how unique they were, what a pioneer they were. God, I admire that fool. So that's the one thing now will. Thank you very much for your presentation that, you know, it really [01:12:30] tried to and half succeeded in shaking me out of my complacency. Because, as you may have seen on Facebook, I had strong reservations about that armoured vehicle. It wasn't actually a tank, it had wheels, and it didn't have a big gun on top. It was, uh, They call it an LAV, I think. But it had a tiny little rainbow flag on it. I thought what? And also this I sort of looked around This great big [01:13:00] thing was here, you know, it was like Martians have come. Um, but, you know, it took that to to shake me. But you've made the point that all this corporate branding, all this and, you know, the, um, commodification of gayness. And you know, all the issues you raised were very, um you know, pertinent [01:13:30] and be before you started. I was thinking What? What if the Pride Parades Pride Committee said OK, you can come in the parade, but you've got to have more diversity, more rainbows, more unicorns than you have branding. But what you've said, You know, as you said, it doesn't matter how many rainbows you have if the like. If the underlying thing isn't isn't good, if the if the rainbow tick doesn't mean a damn thing. [01:14:00] So thank you very much. And I You know, I Well, we've come a long way, and we've got a long way to go. Thank you. Thank you. Hugh. Is there anyone else who would like to say a word or two? No. All [01:14:30] right, then. Well, I think that draws our session this afternoon to a close. Um, I'd just like to before we close acknowledge those activists who have gone before us. Um, but who are no longer with us? Um, I'd like to thank those who've, um, spoken this afternoon. I'd like to thank will very much for his amazing, amazing talk. Um, I'd like to thank the taro tramping club for allowing us the use of the hall. Um, and most of all, I'd like to thank [01:15:00] you all for coming along, um, and joining us for this commemoration of our stone wall. Thanks very much. Yeah.
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