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I was the big 65 this year, so I've just started getting the pension right. Where did you Where did you grow up? I grew up the biggest town in North Kent in England. Um, graves in. But I was actually born in and brought up in the next sort of like a suburb called North Fleet and fleets, a subsidiary of the Thames, A small river off of the Thames. Can you talk to me about knitting? [00:00:30] Oh, Oh, yes. I'm a great knitter. Um, I've got two older sisters and mum. They all used to knit. And so I think not that my brother learned to knit, but I just Just something that I learned to do. How? How old were you then? You know, probably teenager. Probably. Maybe a bit younger. I'm not sure you got any has with has from other guys with nothing? Well, no, because I, I only [00:01:00] knitted at home and later I've knitted, um on ferries and stuff like that just to fill in the time. Right. Were you aware that you were gay from an early age then? Well, I don't know whether I knew I was gay, and I don't know whether I I never, ever thought I was different. Um, Mum and dad totally accepted who I was. I mean, there was never any talk about it. Um, but I always say to people, [00:01:30] I was I was gay when I came out of the world. So OK, did you have any problems when you when you're in England? Um I mean, everyone sort of says, um, you know, you must have had problems and bullying and all this, but I think because I was happy with who I was, um, one just learns to I mean, I went to a really rough all my all boys school, and I just learned [00:02:00] to become like the mole running errands for the gang leaders. You you just learn to, um, look after yourself. So, I I never had any problems. It's great, isn't it? It is. What word would you or did you use to describe your gay self when you were younger? I don't think I did. I was just me because the word camp used to be in in my youth. Anyway, the word camp was a was a useful word. Um, I think people might have used [00:02:30] it about me, but I never used it about myself. So what do you call yourself these days? Oh, I'm a poofter, you know? Do you normally think of yourself as that? Um, when I talk to people and and that and, you know, because nowadays I just talk to anyone about it, I always say, I'm a, um Some gay men don't have much to do with women. You're You're an exception in that. I think through your theatrical [00:03:00] life, I has to Yeah, I think. And most of most of my closest friends are women. Yeah, Um, not that. And I mean, amazingly not that I've ever had sex with a woman, So OK, how long since you've been in a stable relationship? God, I can't think that far back. What do you mean by stable? More than a day, more than a day I went. I went to probably the last [00:03:30] long term. I went over to Australia to we met here in in New Zealand in 91. I think it was so 91 92. So whatever that is 20 years ago. Well, the age you are now would you like to be in a personal relationship? No. Do you have any regrets about your gay life? Um, No. None at all. You're an unusual man. [00:04:00] Do you consider yourself? Well, I just I I'm I'm just me. And that's how I was. I mean, whether I was gay or whether I had ingrown toenails. I mean, that's just me. Do you consider yourself retired now? Um, well, I haven't. I was in I was a computer programmer from the sixties, and I mean, late sixties. Um, and I finally got out of out of that [00:04:30] career. Just, um, was just all too much for me. I just didn't want to do it. Um, when I was 51. So I actually haven't worked in my career since I was 51. Well, you were involved with her bay house, I think, working with, um, AIDS AIDS victims, older people, younger people, all sorts. It was all sorts, um, both sexes. Both men and women and also Children. Um, so, yeah, it [00:05:00] was cross cross cross board. How did you keep yourself sane, if you like. Um, well, it was only two days a week, and I was I say I was fortunate my When I was 18, I met a lovely man who was like my mentor, and we were in a relationship for about five years. But he was 19 years older than me, and he was like my mentor. [00:05:30] And when I said I wanted to travel, he said, Well, that's all right. You know, I'll let you travel and blah, blah, blah. Um, and of course, we kept in touch with one another. And unfortunately, in 80 87 88 he was diagnosed with HIV and I went back to England from here. He was given three days to live, and I flew back from here to look after him, got him out of hospital, and [00:06:00] he lived for another eight weeks. And I just think I was just so fortunate to be with him for that time and that that just that just helped me to work at Home Bay House. But, you know, everyone says, Oh, it must become easier, but it doesn't because it's a life, because it's not something I'd I'd be happy about doing. Well, I just think I'm for you. You're just I'm fortunate [00:06:30] in helping them on that journey because they're totally reliant on you. And I think it must be like, you know, the closest. Because I've never had Children, so I wouldn't know. But I think it's the closest to like being a parent, because that person, that child or that person that's dying is dependent on you, And you just, you know, just have to do it. Or did you look after a lot of people, or did you look after individuals? So, no, [00:07:00] um, there was one caregiver on a day, so there was a nurse and a care giver, plus the management staff and a cook. And so you just had to do all the jobs, so it depended. Who was there? Um, so you just had to, you know, took them for, um, appointments. Helped them washing and all this stuff. And is it a house or places like that? They still no, Um, because of the [00:07:30] modern drugs, Um, people are living a lot lot better lives and and can sustain themselves in the community and go back to work. Um, her bay house I left. I was only there for two years. I left in 2003, and I think it closed because of lack of clients in about 2004. It's good. Good, actually, isn't it? Yeah. And and of course, um and of course, hospices [00:08:00] and stuff were then accepting HIV people because prior to that, they they wouldn't take them in, you know? So how do you keep fit these days? Well, just before you came today, I did my hours walk around west Haven. I came home. I help an elderly lady at the moment who's 89 at the end of the month, and I do little jobs for her. So I came home from her and put on my walking gear, and I do an hour's [00:08:30] walk from here, right around West Haven up Hill? No, not, um Karen Street. And, um and I'm also a swimmer. I, um I've actually represented New Zealand as a swimmer in gay games several times, I think. Yeah. Um, Amsterdam, Sydney and Cologne. And then last year, we had the Asia Pacific Out games in Wellington, and so [00:09:00] I was down there with Queen of the whole universe and also swam, came home with three gold medals so well done. So I should be having a ceremony tonight with, um with, uh, Valerie Adams. You got a great That is your home in Morgan Tree. It? Yes, been mortgage free. I had the I bought the house in 83 and I was mortgage three and 86. [00:09:30] Well done. So, at your age, what support are you? Go. What support are you going to need as you get older? Well, as I say, I haven't worked in my career since I was 51. So one learns to, um, live to one's needs and means. And, um so now that I'm getting the super government super, um, it's the icing on the cake. So, um, I can't believe every fortnight [00:10:00] this money goes into my account. Do you have any family in New Zealand? I've got a brother. He he married a New Zealander with a a ready made family. She had three Children. So I've got, um, two nieces and a nephew. But the nephew now lives in Norway. He travelled and met a Norwegian, and so he's there with four Children. I've got two nieces here, and I've just spent two weeks with one of the nieces in Rarotonga. [00:10:30] She's over there working OK, so what does the future hold for you? As you as you grow older? Oh, I just live every day. I just I mean, I don't have a bucket list. Um, and I still do things like, um, two or three years ago, Um, I was down in Queenstown, and so of course I had to do a bungee. So, um, it's I'm that sort of person. [00:11:00] It's the Now you do it now. OK, well again. Yes. A water tide will in that water, as I think it can be. I mean, I've checked. I've checked with a friend who's a family lawyer. Um, and because I'm not married or whatever he said, my siblings, you know, I can't have any say on my world. So, um [00:11:30] I mean, one of my siblings is in in the world, but the others aren't. So, um, so there's not gonna be any problem with the world. Well, I'll be dead, so I won't care. Um, I, I know you're probably aged disgracefully, but how do you actually see yourself in 15 or 20 years time? Well, 20 years time, I'd probably be dead because I I tell everybody I'm dying on my 84th birthday. I [00:12:00] I've worked with enough elderly people that, um I see them go downhill after about 84. So, um, I'd probably still be alive. But this is what I'm telling you. And because I was born on April 4th day on my fourth birthday, they're all gonna be around the bed, and I'm gonna go and they're all gonna go. Oh, he's dead. He's dead. And then I'm gonna sit up and say april 4th and then go and then go. All right? Hm? [00:12:30] How do you want to be? How do you expect to be remembered apart from the man who popped up from his death bed and who died again? Well, I I'm my My full name is Edward Jenner. And in history, Edward Jenner actually discovered smallpox vaccine. And so I tell everybody that I've done it in another life, so I don't have to do it now. So they remember me for my smallpox vaccine. [00:13:00] So what advice would you offer today to any young gay men? Particularly those who are having problems? Well, I think you've got to You've got to be happy with who you are, and and live it to your own. You know your own truth. It doesn't matter that somebody else does. XYZ you You've got to find what's your truth, and you've got to try and at the same time [00:13:30] not cause ripples. You know, um, you can have a wonderful, wonderful life And you, But you and I mean, I'm out there. I mean, I wear colour. I mean, I mean, most people would know that I'm gay and over the top, Um, and I've been like that all my life, and I'd say touch wood. But, I mean, I've I've never had any any problems of, you know, bullying or fighting or, um but no, be true to yourself and [00:14:00] be happy.
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