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So I'm te I do work here as a head of repatriation and sometimes I'm caught upon to, um, undertake Q Care, um, for special events. Um, so this is a special event and, um, for me the purpose of a Q Care is to acknowledge, um, those people that had prepared the pathway forward for this exhibition. Um, and so it's acknowledging their talents, the gifts that they've inherited from their una, their ancestors, um, but also [00:00:30] acknowledging, um, for this particular event, the, the memory of the loved ones that have passed away that are sort of, um, in, embedded in the, in the, in the quilts. Um, so for this, um, I will leave the, we will walk past, um, the three, um, quilts. Um, and then we'll go to the final one at the end. Um, but we'll face towards this way, the, the other quilts so that we embrace [00:01:00] all of the quilts and then we'll finish with, um, Called and then I'll do a little explanation further around the, at 1120. So, um, if anyone wants to say anything after the, I'll leave that up to you, but please keep it short because the main COPA is at, um, 1130. Um, but you're most welcome to express, um, something after the this time as well.[00:01:30] [00:02:00] [00:02:30] [00:03:00] [00:03:30] [00:04:00] [00:04:30] [00:05:00] Um,[00:05:30] Um, although my words will be short, um, I just wanted to acknowledge the people that have, um, prepared this exhibition today. And I also wanted to acknowledge the people that that made the quilts in memory of their loved ones. Um, the lo their loved ones that passed away over the [00:06:00] last 40 years, maybe 50 years. And, um, we were a different country 50 years ago from what we are today. Um, and so 50 years ago it would've been much of a challenge to actually, um, prepare these quilts. Um, when people that had the illness, uh, or died from, um, HIV age related illnesses, um, we are con [00:06:30] considered in a different category. Um, and my personal knowledge is some parts of our community, um, the appearance, um, of the loved ones that passed away. On certain occasions didn't accept the whanau member back into, into their family. And I know on certain occasions, um, when Tupapaku the deceased went, went to have a ton at them. Mara, the [00:07:00] Mara did not accept them back either. So I just want to acknowledge the memory that's contained in these, these quilts, um, of the children. Of the woman and of the man that had passed away. So Nore, oh, immigrant heavens. Um, I was kaki guardian of the quilts from 2003 to 2018. [00:07:30] When we decided back in 2011 that these quilts needed to be gifted somewhere, it was to Papa and specifically Stephanie. That Rachel Zu from the AIDS Foundation and then Jason Myers and now Joe Rich have all supported [00:08:00] the work and the love of the Roha that's gone into these. And the gifting was made in, I think it was the 3rd of May, 2012. And I was here. Then as we brought the quilts onto the Marai and Stephanie and her team, then were part of that. So it's a very special link. I don't want to say too much cuz I am speaking, but as we [00:08:30] stand just here, I conducted my first funeral. As a celebrant in 1989, and at that funeral the chap said, bloody, good job, Mike. Will you do mine? Russell Wells, the third one down [00:09:00] there was the second funeral I ever took way back in. 1989 and a hundred more followed, and I would just like to acknowledge all of those here in your presence. You, you are the living. That these people expressed in their lives,[00:09:30] and as I have done so many times, a simple blessing.[00:10:00] [00:10:30] [00:11:00] Five G. Thank you, uh, Kira, uh, cor Claire Aho. I'm a lesbian activist, I guess, and I worked at the fitness center during the nineties and went on to work with, uh, New Zealand Prostitutes Collective on safer sex and decriminalization issues. I'm a documentary filmmaker and, and part of the wonderful thing about the.[00:11:30] New Zealand a's Memorial Quilt Project is that it's story and pictures and it's a memorial to the many lives lived and lost in our community. And I think one of the glorious things about it was that, um, during the nineties we would take these quilts to schools and talk to 'em about grief and loss and homophobia and being out and being gay and visible and. For [00:12:00] lots of kids who were, and young people who were very isolated. It was a, an amazing kind of innovation. And also I think it made the kids realize how they could express themselves in different ways, not just in words, but in pictures and in texture and all sorts of things. And each picture here tells the story of a beautiful life and of the memory. But it also tells a story sometimes of, uh, people whose [00:12:30] families did not accept them. They didn't want their full names on the quilts because it would reflect on the family and at the time also, some families would not. Come to the funerals of gay people who had died of aids. Um, I've also worked for Mary Potter Hospice for 10 years and during the early days of hiv, they were the first hospice to accept a patient with hiv cuz there was a lot of fear about at the time. And that has [00:13:00] changed incredibly, um, over these years. But it's only due to the activism and the bravery of these early men who, who. Were HIV positive, like Tom o Donahue who set up the, um, people living with hiv aids union and worked tirelessly even till his very last days on, um, making p the person behind the illness visible. And that was very inspiring. [00:13:30] I was going to say that it's so hard to imagine what it must have been like in those early days where we didn't even know what HIV was. Yeah. But of course, we've had Covid, and Covid was, I guess, a taster in terms of, um, a virus coming out that we just didn't know what it was and the fear and the stigma around that. That's right. And I think that, um, actually Clive Aspen, who is a public health researcher, he, he's written a paper about that and, and the correlation between [00:14:00] how the public responded to Covid as opposed to HIV and aids, and the fact that Covid affected everybody from the get go. Meant that it actually got addressed. Whereas in the early days when HIV was sought to just affect gay men, it wasn't even taken seriously until it people realized it was gonna affect all of the community. And that was part of the homophobia at the time and the, the kind of, um, [00:14:30] The feeling that gay people didn't matter. But I think the bravery of those early activists really changed the face of HIV and aids And in New Zealand, um, Catherine Hilly and the Prostitutes Collective, they really worked tirelessly. With, um, Tom O'Donohue and others, the Burnett Foundation as well, which was incredibly significant, setting up a hospice to really, um, make visible [00:15:00] the people behind the illness and also to address homophobia and our. Society. I guess one of the other differences with, um, COVID and, and HIV is that the HIV response was very much a community led response. That's right. And, uh, it had to be because the, the, the powers that be weren't actually doing anything, but, but it's the power of community and the voices in that community that were brave enough to come forward and say, I have H I V, who [00:15:30] made that difference? And then all the people that got around them. To support the COPPA and the care that they needed. And the, um, the grief workshops. Dotty, Dr. Heti Rodenburg who'd worked with, um, Kubler Ross, set up a lot of workshops for the gay community and their families of addressing people who were dying and dying very young deaths. And that's the difference too, um, that was happening with HIV and aids, is that, Men and then later [00:16:00] women, um, who had HIV and aids. There was not the medication that's available now, which is fantastic now, but in those early days, there was no treatment. And so young men, young, beautiful men, died very young. And that was a big shock. And actually the other thing that happened, um, which you can see in the stories in, in this court project, is that people came home after. Being overseas when they became unwell and their families were faced with [00:16:30] not only them coming out as gay, but also dying at the same time. And so some families really embraced their loved ones. Not all families or not all family members perhaps. Um, and that's, that comes out in some of these stories too, which is tragic and beautiful at the same time. The thing that really strikes me about a lot of these quilt panels is the age in which people passed away and we're talking kind of 30 to 40 years old. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And also, um, there's a beautiful [00:17:00] panel of, um, Russell Wells who was, um, a wonderful, um, film, gay filmmaker Peter Wells brother. Um, and Peter also made a beautiful film, which was the first real film to be made about the impact of, um, losing a loved one with hiv aids. And so, You know, this is one layer of the activism at the time, but there was a lot of other activism that happened through the New Zealand AIDS Foundation and their affiliated, uh, agencies and [00:17:30] networks, and I think New Zealand eventually got it together in terms of the public health response, and that's what it became, a public health issue, and that's what it is now as well. But, um, I think there's still a long way to go in terms of how we address grieving in our community. And it, and it, this is part of that, um, embracing the people that we've lost and honoring the people now that we are working with, who are also [00:18:00] dying. So, um, it's a beautiful tribute at Memorial. And I look forward to the rest of the day. You were, you were saying that you were working at the Athena Center in the, in the 1990s, and I reflect back on that time, and we had things like homosexual law reform in 85, 86, where there was a lot, a lot of bigoted viewpoints and, and AIDS was being brought into that kind of anti homosexual law reform. What, what was the, what was the feeling like working at the Athena Center at the time because of, and, [00:18:30] and, and of course there weren't. Um, Um, really highly successful treatments for hiv. Were there? No, and, uh, we set up, um, with, um, the offender center in Wellington, a, a women's support group as well, and that had counselors and, um, community workers involved. And often it would be partners of men who were, um, who. We're not necessarily out gay, but we're living with women still, but having sex with [00:19:00] men. So they were bisexual and um, a lot of, you know, a lot of things came out of the closet as it were, and also children, um, daughters and mothers. And so the, the support network of the woman, um, ended up also becoming, um, Women who had hiv. So some of the women's, the partners of the men did become HIV positive. Not all. Um, but that was a different kind of, um, [00:19:30] need in a way. And, um, that led to a lot of stories being told, um, books being written and that kind of thing. And I think it just, I. The fact that there was no active treatment meant that you just had to actually work with what you had. And, um, the palliative approach of, of working with people with living till they die basically. And so, and that is still true today of anyone who's dying, but, but [00:20:00] that, um, the treatment that has now become available is, means that HIV is actually. A long term condition rather than an acute, um, life threatening disorder. So that is transformational for people who are diagnosed. But there's still a need, obviously for messaging around safe sex practice to prevent it in the first place. Cause you don't want to get it and you don't want to. [00:20:30] Um, Take it lightly that it, that it's, you know, it's treatable, therefore don't worry about it because I think it's still really important not to be complacent. So I guess that's, that difference meant that you were dealing with the person who was dying, but also a community who was losing a whole generation of friends, lovers, family members. And even now when you think about aging in the queer community. There's a big gap in our aging [00:21:00] demograph because of hiv aids, and that's another kind of grief, a community shared grief, which is why these quilts and today is so important. I was struck when Michael was, uh, Michael Bancroft was talking earlier, saying that he had conducted over a hundred aids related funerals and just the resonance of all of those deaths and, and like, how do you, how do you even. Deal with it. It must have some long-term [00:21:30] effects psychologically on people. Yes. And I think what it had, has also done is actually transform how we do funerals. And that was what was so like a liberating or celebratory nature of funerals. Going from being a, you know, the, the traditional formal, uh, funeral in a church or a. Or a hall or something to being a real celebration of that person's life and bringing in music and art and performance even, you know? Um, so I think [00:22:00] that changed the nature of funerals as, as it was then and today. I think a funeral can be anything, which is really, um, a wonderful kind of fallout from it. Um, but I think the long term. Uh, grief of the community is a bit like a kind of a post-traumatic shock effect or from, you know, groups of people who have been through a war or similar kind of thing that it may not always be acknowledged, but there is a gap in our [00:22:30] community and, and days like today recognize that and, and I think it. It was really important for, for owning it and honoring the people who have passed away, um, and wondering what would've been like if they were still here, you know, uh, Kilda. My name is be Jackson. I'm a public program specialist here at Tupper. Um, we're an kuda on level four of Tup today for the display of, um, four blocks of the New Zealand [00:23:00] AIDS Memorial Quilts UhMing, 40 years since. The first cases were reported in Alua Kiara. I'm Ruben Love. Um, I'm a volunteer with Lagan, so Lesbian and Gay Archives of New Zealand, AKA Alro. Um, yeah, and I've collaborated with Ben Jackson from Papapa, um, to bring this display here. Yep. Can you talk about the collaboration? How, how has that been between the two institutions? Um, we were actually approached by this event [00:23:30] has been initiated by Ruben, um, coming from National Librarian, from gans, um, just to, to find out where the quilts were and, and to ask whether a display was. Possible. And so, um, the it duration of the event that has come together today has kind of been, um, based on a, a range of, you know, uh, parameters that we were meeting and time space, um, the actual scale of the quilts, um, and their care. Uh, so that's how we kind of. Came to the [00:24:00] conclusion of displaying four of them, and, and Ruben has been, um, amazing at reaching out to the group of speakers that we have today as well. So, Ruben, why was it important to, to have this event, to mark this occasion? Mm-hmm. Um, I think one was, I wanted to mark the, the 40 years since. The first reported cases of hiv aids in Al Tiera, um, because it's so easy to forget how recent that history was, um, and that we still [00:24:30] have, we have a whole missing generation of people who've passed on and all of that marga that. Was not passed on to me. Um, and that, that community that I often feel is, is still missing. Is still, yeah. Um, so I wanted to use this opportunity as a time to remember, um, those who have passed, you know, those who are present in the quilt. Um, and also those who are not present in the quilts. Um, [00:25:00] yeah, yeah. You mentioned that there are some, uh, speakers today. Can you tell me who's speaking? Bill Logan, who was, um, an early hiv aids activist in Wellington. Um, and as well be s who's just directed the film punch. Um, and who actually has a panel, um, for his lover? Ian? Um, Yeah. Then there's Chanel Hatti from Una. Um, she's been involved with the, uh, New Zealand Prostitutes Collective and really [00:25:30] wanted to bring tuna into this event. She's spoken before at AIDS Memorial events. Um, Yeah. Also got, um, Michael Bancroft, who is the guardian of the quilt for many years, um, before and, and since it has been held by Tippa and we have Jane running from positive women too, and two speakers from the Positive Speakers Bureau. What has it been like meeting all these extraordinary people? Because these, these community members have been, um, through a lot, they've seen [00:26:00] a lot. Like what is it like meeting and talking to them? Um, for me, the overwhelming thing has been the generosity of all the speakers, um, from, you know, uh, out of the blue email from, from Ruben or I, and just getting the, the warmest and most positive and enthusiastic responses to the event today. And I think really just emphasizing the importance of, of having events like this and of. Of, um, showing the quilts and of people being able to see them because, um, for, you know, they have been in [00:26:30] storage largely since they've been at Tepa. And, um, and yeah, just, just the enthusiasm to, to come here and, and generosity, to take part. Um, it's, yeah, amazing the messages. Um, from some of the speakers saying how honored they felt to be a part of this kopa and to be brought here into the space with the quilts, um, was really moving, really, really moving. So they've all been warm, um, like just the longest [00:27:00] emails about, you know, just really open with their histories, with the quilt and their, um, Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was a really, really emotional experience. Um, and just having a corridor with him in the cafe before, um, was like amazing how much knowledge just in that moment was passed between generations and between each other. Um, and I think there's still not, I mean, we're getting better, but there's still not enough opportunities. To [00:27:30] bring groups of, you know, generations together, um, and sit down and cord it all. Yeah. Is this the first time you've seen the quilts out? Physically? I've seen one or two blocks, um, and back of house visits at Tippa when they, you know, there's only really enough space to one fold, one or two. So seeing, uh, four of them altogether is pretty special. And yesterday or the day before, um, I went up to Torrey Street and saw where they all sit. Together in storage. That was pretty special to see them in their carefully packaged, um, [00:28:00] wraps and, you know, all carefully waiting there and, and to see the process of them being moved down to, to, to be displayed today. Uh, yep. The first time I've seen them in person, um, I've seen them online and the reproductions are great. Did you, you took the photos, eh? Um, so the, the detail's beautiful, but it's, it's. It's such a different experience, um, seeing them in person and how 3D they are, how careful the stitching is. [00:28:30] Um, yeah, that, so it's, it's incredible. Um, and I hope one day we get all of the blocks displayed. Um, but yeah. Yeah, because it feels. Yeah, a selection of of four is a really intimate experience, and you can talk to some of the, the particular panels in detail, um, but it still feels like a part of the whanau is missing. Yeah. But, um, yeah, one day, one day, [00:29:00] A And just finally, when you see the, the blocks displayed here today, uh, what's the feeling you get? It's quite overwhelming, I think, and, and as well, reading the, reading the information that's held about each of the blocks and finding out each story about each person and about the people that made it and. And, um, the people who have held it, there's, there's so many people, um, who are invested in the, in the process and, and represented by, and remembered by the quilt [00:29:30] that it's, um, it really, it really genuinely is a tear jerker, you know, like, I think, um, that, that's a terrible way to put it. But I, I just, I mean, like, there's, there's nothing quite so, um, hard hitting that I've seen in the collection here at Tippa that just instantly kind of, um, Brings a tear to eye. Really? Yeah. Um, for me, especially after Covid 19, where there, there were these easy comparisons [00:30:00] between the pandemic and hiv aids pandemic, um, was having this opportunity to display the quilts as kind of bringing that. Back to earth and saying, you know, the, yeah, these are, these are real people and this is not, these aren't just, you know, shapes and colors on, on fabric. These are the people through their whanau, through their friends lovers, uh, Actually present in the, the white is, is present in the quilt. Um, [00:30:30] which is why even in the wording around the event using, uh, the word koga, um, is about connecting in with those people again. Um, yeah. Mm-hmm. Kiara, my name is Stephanie Gibson. I'm a history curator here at Puffer. In Wellington and we are in one of our big exhibition spaces where we have laid out four of the New Zealand AIDS Memorial quilt today for an event. And can you tell me about the quilt we're standing [00:31:00] in front of? So we're in front of a block that features eight panels, which each represent one person who passed from aids, and I think they date from about 1989 to 1991. And each panel is named. Sometimes it's just a first name. Sometimes it's a full name with their birth and death dates. It's a real mix, and some are painted, some are stitched, some are [00:31:30] collaged. Some are very fine embroidery. So it's a real mix of imagery and textile art. Why was it important for Tepa to have this event today? So, 2023 marks the 40th anniversary of the first person in New Zealand to contract aids or hiv aids. So we are marking that 40th anniversary. It's also pride here in Wellington Pride Week. Uh, also [00:32:00] it's a wonderful opportunity to work in partnership with Ligans to have this event. Um, there's a lot of. Interest and love for the quilt, and it's wonderful to be able to bring it out when we can, when we feel that, that people really want to see it, and we know that they get a lot of meaning from it. The quilts have been with, uh, with the guardianship of Tappa for, for just over 10 years now. I can't believe though, that that 10 years has, has really [00:32:30] flown by. C Can you tell me, um, some of the, uh, the times the quilts have been on display in that time? So we've brought out one or two quilt blocks whenever people have asked us to, and people might range from school groups. Uh, there's a particular school that comes every few years that's studying homosexual law reform, and they, we always bring out one of the blocks for them, um, people that, uh, may be doing an art project. So we've had artists and, uh, people from lgbtq I [00:33:00] plus communities, people from health communities. We've had. All sorts of interest and people want to spend some time with a block or two, and then we'll bring them out specially for them. And we find it's a pretty incredible experience for everybody, for staff, and for our visitors. So when school groups see these quilts from 30, 40 years ago, uh, how do they react? Um, they're pretty shocked actually. I, it always never ceases to amaze me how emotional people are, no matter what age, what their [00:33:30] background, who they are, what their identity is. They're always almost stunned into silence. Uh, cuz they're faced with the materialization of grief and it's very powerful and it, the feeling never fades no matter how many times you see the quilt blocks. It always has that effect, and that was part of, its what I, what you might call soft activism, right from the very beginning. It was an activist statement to make a panel to memorialize and remember somebody whose life had been cut short by [00:34:00] aids. Very powerful statement to make. The, the grief and love that are put into the, the, the, the creation of the quilts, but also I guess the grief and love, uh, because these quilts have been all around the country. They've been onto to marae and to schools. And they've had such a life, haven't they? Yeah. Well, they had an incredible life before they came to Juppa. They might be out in the grass one day and a church hall the next. As you say. So they had a very diverse life. For many years. They would travel up and down the country [00:34:30] and hundreds of thousands of people saw them. But there did come a time where, um, new treatments came in and people no longer, um, sub fat dying from aids, they could actually live with hiv and less people died and less people were memorialized in this way. And it was time for the. Quilt to come somewhere safe and be permanently looked after in a, in a really safe environment. I mean, it is stunning that the quilt is in the national, you know, the National Museum of [00:35:00] Tiara, because there are numerous quilts around the world that don't have that. Um, That, that, that national kind of, uh, care, I guess. Um, why was it important for, to papa to become the guardian of the quilt? Because this is a nationally significant story. It was a nationally significant, um, epidemic or pandemic. Many, many people were affected. We needed to honor that history and this was an [00:35:30] incredible opportunity to collect an object that lives on. It actually is Tonga. It is a living Tonga, and we can actually care for and share it, and it's meaning continues to grow. That's the most powerful object you can collect. So even if it didn't, even, even if it didn't have that spirit about it, it would still be an important. National historical story to collect and tell in perpetuity to remind people, especially what we've just been through with Covid. [00:36:00] You know, these lessons, they're, they're, they're always relevant. So we have, I think in the collection there's around about 16 blocks, is that correct? Are are there other aspects of, uh, the AIDS Memorial Quilt that Papa has? So we have the archive of the quilt. Uh, I think it's about four meters, linear meters of paperwork and photographs of the quilt on display around the country. Uh, the stories in behind each panel are quite an incredible record. [00:36:30] Just for you personally, when you are looking at these, uh, quilt blocks, what, what, what does it make you feel and what's the feeling you get from it? I always feel sort of sad, happy. It's a really strange feeling. I feel it every time. It's sort of, I feel like I'm in the presence of greatness, but also of deep sorrow. So it's that feeling that all the love and care that was poured into these quilt blocks and panels, it gives that a chance for that person's life just to live on like a whisper [00:37:00] to people that they've never met many years later, like myself. But it just reminds me, they look at, they look out for me at the quilt and they remind me, you know, you've got to take care of yourself. You've got to be respectful and live life to the full. I love that idea of just a whisper. We were here. Yeah, absolutely. It's about visibility. Present material presence is really important and I think sometimes we forget it as we go online, increasingly go online. But a [00:37:30] physical, tangible reminder or memorial of a life well lived, or a life that ended in, you know, great sadness for many people, it's an incredibly powerful thing to be in front of. There's something that happens when you're with a physical memorial as opposed to a digital one. I do believe it's quite a different synergy. It is well worth experiencing. I'm here at the display of the AIDS [00:38:00] quilts, which many of, um, these quilts bring to life bring to my mind the people I knew who died. In the, predominantly in the 1990s, 19 late 1980s, 1990s era, people like Tom o Donahue, whom I worked very closely with, and our fledgling days as, as organizations who were [00:38:30] responding to HIV and aids, working with our peers and our communities, you know, on issues like stigma and discrimination, basic things like. Getting condoms out to sex workers who were criminalized at the time. Um, you know, just, it, it, it's so evocative to be here, to see these quilts, to hear these stories, to have people tap you on the elbow and say, do you remember when we sat on the National Council on AIDS in 1988 [00:39:00] together, just really evocative. And am I right in thinking that, uh, NZ PC kind of grew out of that need for kind of, um, safer sex practices, aids awareness? We came together as an organization in that era. We had other issues that were complimentary to the concerns about hiv. We were obviously concerned about. Been arrested by the police, um, having our condoms [00:39:30] counted, um, in, in practice, you know, and used as circumstantial evidence at a, at a time when we were combating HIV and trying to generate awareness, um, of our own struggles, you know, and that criminalized environment, but also building educative. Um, support amongst those of us in our communities, sex worker communities. So, so did it even get down to that level where police [00:40:00] would count the number of condoms you actually had on person? Well, that was the fair. And people could recollect photographs being taken, and we'd come out of our massage parlors with our condoms wrapped up in tissues and put them into rubbish bags that had to be carried off site quite quickly to avoid having them hanging around just in case. The police would come in and they did come in undercover pretending to [00:40:30] be our clients and this was the kind of evidence that they would be looking for. It just seems such a, a different country and, and I guess New Zealand was a different country back in the eighties. Yeah. You know, these were rich times as well in terms of bringing communities together that necessarily. Needed to be together. You know, we were perceived as being the ones at risk. The, you know, we were perceived as being the [00:41:00] vectors of transmission. Um, but in truth, I think we were the leaders, you know, we were the champions of public health and we brought all these sorts of issues to the fore, and we created legislation that supported the right. Of all sorts and benefited the nation as a whole. When you look around today at these blocks from the New Zealand AIDS Memorial Quilt, what, what, what feelings do you have? [00:41:30] Well, good feelings, you know, you know, when I, I look at Tom Madonna, who's quilt and I, I just reflect on the great times that we had and you know, we would be meeting with ministers of the Crown and talking about our issues. Passionately. I mean, we knew we were going to lose good friends to HIV and aids and, but you know, I look at Tom's quilt, for example, and there's the telephone. We had the landline that we shared as an organization and, you know, [00:42:00] the wine glasses, lots of wine was drunk. We, you know, the, the, the, um, little dogs that he walked and just so, um, rich with memories. But I mean, they should be here with us today in the flesh. That wasn't possible at the time. You know, anyone living with HIV today will tell you that they look forward to a long life. Um, so there were poignant times through that, through that era when the quilts meant so. As Chanel [00:42:30] said today, you know, she said, you know, they, they captured our love. Chanel also mentioned today about the passing of Georgina Bayer, and uh, I'm wondering, do, do you have any, um, kind of the first memories of, of meeting Georgina? Well, Georgina was, uh, certainly you could never meet Georgina. Once and forget. And so we spent many times with Georgina, both on a, um, you know, sitting on [00:43:00] podium sharing podiums and platforms and speaking about different issues as well as, you know, the hard grafting of creating. Prostitution law reform and private times as well. You know, just down times and Georgina up until, you know, recent times, you know, like she's always been alongside our community would respond if we asked her to come to events and share [00:43:30] with us. You know, the sex worker Pride Day for instance, you know, was something that Georgina. Um, spent time with us a couple of years ago and yeah, it's, it's been very sad and somewhat shocking to realize that someone like Georgina has passed. Um, but we'll carry her. With our memories. Can you describe her personality? Oh, she was, she was quite monstrous on [00:44:00] occasions and she was, you know, she was outrageous and strong and, you know, also, um, empathetic sec. Considered unpredictable. What do you think Georgina's legacy will be? Gosh, don't be afraid. You know, like I think she, she had had [00:44:30] to really come out. In so many different ways. I mean, she was forced out as well in terms of her sex work, um, related activities. She was not comfortable in that space. Um, she was very angry about, um, having, being a sex worker, I think, you know, so she was enriched with so many different experiences that benefit us all.[00:45:00] She articulated extremely well those experiences and why they shouldn't happen to other people. You know, that good law, good supportive response in terms of human rights would, um, you know, is a way forward and yeah, I think, uh, her legacy is multifaceted like Georgina.[00:45:30] So it's uh, 10th of March, 2023, and there's just been an event which is looking at, um, commemorating the, um, the AIDS as has played out in New Zealand. And central to that has been a display of some of the quilts that have been produced. So there was, uh, there's been, um, a, uh, an event in at Papa, the National Museum, and it's been attended by, um, community. And it's been the community [00:46:00] of our nation really. And um, and we've heard from speakers, some who, who were intimately involved with the period when the first of the quilts were made and other people who are living with HIV V at the moment talking about the experiences of the current time. And right before us is Ian's quilt. Yeah. Quite hard to look at even after this time. The um, It's so time has damaged [00:46:30] it so much, you know? Um, and yet his face is still perfectly pure, perfectly preserved. And that's because I, I painted it, I just painted his portrait with dry brush with no underpainting. It's straight onto the fabric. So the Calico is the warmth behind the, the face. But the rest of it, I'd put undercoat on, and of course it's cracked, but uh, yeah, it's strange to see something so beautiful. I'd forgotten how beautiful it was. Yeah, I [00:47:00] sounds, sounds a little egotistical. I don't mean it like that. I mean, it just, it's beautiful in your heart to see somebody who you love. And they're still the same way you painted them. You were speaking earlier on stage to the, um, the, the people in the, um, the room, in the audience. What is, how easy or how hard is that for you to, to get up there and, and, and talk about such personal things? I'm shy. My, my nature [00:47:30] is that I'm shy. Um, and I am, I worry, I get worried. It's hard for me to keep my emotions under control. If I'm talking about something I love, I, if I'm talking about something political, it's fine. But where it's personal, it's quite hard. I. So, um, I think that's why I was a bit faulting that I, I sometimes had to stop a wee bit, but it was hugely, uh, comforting to hear other people going through the same thing. And then I thought, so people trust this world, this [00:48:00] world of this moment and here enough to be able to do that. And um, so, um, you know, Ian was very strong, very strong person. Um, and, uh, I, I thought for a moment, oh, well I wonder what you'd make of this now, all these years later, and here, I mean, we talked back then about marrying as as a protest. Of course, you wouldn't have been allowed to do it and just go. You know, fuck people married, a lot of these people in this room are married now, mate. [00:48:30] You know? So it was, um, it's, it's funny because I think the quilt, I guess because it's one of the few that's pictorial, that the presence of the past is immediate there in the moment that it froze and it's here right now. So it's quite hard. When I was looking at it up on the, the quilt on the screen when it was projected, it was quite confronting, you know, because there's no symbolism to act as an intermediary. It's just very present. And how [00:49:00] significant to now be cared for by the National Museum? Who would've thought it, you know, like really, um, you, you, you realize we were pariahs. There's no other word for it. We were fucking pariahs and, um, We didn't even have a, we weren't even, we weren't allowed to say the names of what had killed us at our funerals. You know, we weren't allowed to do those things. It just, [00:49:30] and to have the National Museum now doing this, and you go, it's a little bit like marriage in the future. From back then, but then I stand here now and I go and what might 40 years be? Might we be in a world where you don't have to come out? Might might being queer be the same as being left-handed. I. You know, and so we hope into the future, I guess, from it, and it's, it's wonderful to see so many people behind this organizing here from new [00:50:00] generations coming through. And you just go, that's, um, we owe them a great debt too. The debt is not one way with an older, the younger generation being a debtor to an older generation, it's a community being indebted to itself through all its generations. As they make stuff and enable stuff, you recited, uh, an incredibly moving, um, Paul. [00:50:30] It, uh, it's, oh dear. I'm gonna do I start telling you to, um, it's one of the few poems that can break my heart. You know, it's such, so, such a beautiful, beautiful thing. It's such a beautiful modest, um, I, I mean, I, I, I can get, it's funny how something so small can break you, you know? So it's nothing as majestic as a, you know, [00:51:00] 90 minute feature film or, or an opera. It's a few lines that talk about cloth. And love and what will you give in the name of love? And uh, and it's really strange cuz I look at the quilt and you can't read it anymore. It's not discernible, it's, it's cracked. And to know that it was, it's, it is actually underneath there still, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's, are you able to recite it now? [00:51:30] Yeah. So it's, um, it's Yates and it's, um, it's got another name now, but its original name was Adair, wishes for the Cloths of Heaven and, and a was a, the god of death. And fire and I, that's beautiful. Cause it was spirit and, and also death. And uh, I always thought it was about the quilt. I thought the quilts was, it, it fitted, it said, um, had I the heavens and embroidered [00:52:00] cloth and wrought with gold and silver, light, the blue and the dim. And the dark cloths of night and light and half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet. But I being poor, I have only my dreams and I have spread my dreams under your feet tread softly because he tread on my dreams.[00:52:30] .
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