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So I'm here with Mike and Esme in a park with a piano. Hello? Hello. This This used to be a prostitute park. And then it was zeal, the youth club. And now it's just kind of here with piano. Lovely. You've both just come from a radio show. Tell me a bit about that. Um well, we host a radio show called Queer on Wellington Access. Very inventive name. We chose it for its originality. Um, it's part [00:00:30] of a group of shows called Youth Zone, which are about radium made by youth for youth. And, um, they wanted a quest specific one, because there's lots of just general youth ones. And so we we Well, you asked us. Actually, you got a push to ask someone, and you show us That's correct, because we are pretty magnificent. So tell me about how I asked you. Well, you said would you guys like to do a queer show? And we said Sure, and then we did. And we've been doing it for, I guess, about [00:01:00] a year now. I think so. I'm not sure about the dates I've always and we've had various people come along and do it with us. We used to have Maria. She did it with us for, um several several months And who did it for a couple of days And then earlier this year, I. I had to stop doing it for a while because of school. But, um, we've just recently changed the time slot, so now I'm back. But we had Brendan for a while and he's still around, and I've basically been getting in. Um, Brendan's been my permanent fixture along with [00:01:30] me, but we've also been getting in a different person every every week, just not even a special guest, really just a random co facilitator. But we we do try and get, um, interviews and guest spots from people who are, um, kind of something to do with with the queer community or just something in support of the queer community or something that's just of interest. Like like today we had two people from a musical come along and they weren't. You know, it's not a particularly queer [00:02:00] focused musical, but, you know, you just like music. I love musicals, so I thought, Why the hell not? And I mean plenty of people like me musicals and they were saying The musical has like a slightly clear story to it anyway. So what else? Did you just have interviews, or is there other stuff we do weekly segments that we have? And we do it every week like we have celebrity crushes and normally we have a boy and a girl, but that's sort of flexible to our desires and our las of the day. Today [00:02:30] I had four crushes. She's greedy, she's greedy. Uh, also, we have, uh, a thing called Dear Madonna, which we sort of talk about what's pissed off. So that week in a in A in a light and humorous way, uh, and we have There's something else. Top five and we normally pick something, and we do a top five of it like we will have top five favourite Disney movies or top five favourite bands or something. And today it was top five favourite pink things to tie in with pink shit day. Oh, and we also we play [00:03:00] a lot of music and just kind of we just hang out and we just talk, really, And, um, it's we don't necessarily sit down and go, OK, we're going to talk about this queer issue or whatever we talk about, Whatever is going on for us at the time. And because we're all queer, We all come from a queer perspective that obviously plays a slut. And I mean, I don't think we want to make it overly queer because, I mean, we want everyone to be able to listen. We don't We don't want people to tune in and be like, Oh, they're talking about anal sex again. I don't want to listen to this, you know, And and Plus, I mean I. I mean, the I. I can [00:03:30] only talk from a personal point of view, but, I mean, I'm queer, but it doesn't dictate my entire life. I mean, it's like a lot of people say, um a a lot of bands who are classed as like Christian bands talk about how they come from a Christian life view, and so that obviously influences their music. But they don't classify themselves as a Christian band. I see that the same way with my sexuality. It's like I come from a queer perspective, but that doesn't mean that everything I do is queer, you know, I think that The point of it is more that we want the ability [00:04:00] to sort of make talking about queer things. OK, rather than having to talk about queer things. I think we want it to be a place where people can listen if they want to, for queer stuff or, you know, it's just a really relaxed show. And I think that's one of our main. It's not preachy, and that's good because so much stuff that's aimed at queer people is really preachy. And it's like we want marriage and Children and we're just like we want, you know, to talk we want to be able to bullshit for So do you [00:04:30] think being queered today for you, for both of you is is has changed. Oh, well, I guess you weren't around this. You wouldn't know. But I, I think I mean a lot of the stuff I've heard about, especially with, um like the the queer rights movements and stuff like that. You had to stand up and say, This is who I am. I am. I am a gay man or a lesbian woman or whatever and this is this is all that I am and I have to stand completely behind that. And I think now, because there is so much more acceptance, [00:05:00] I mean, that's it's still there's still there's still a lot of problems, but I mean, I think it's it's kind of it's more about what would be the problems school mainly, I think, um, II I think that being in school is one of the hardest things, and I've heard that even from people of the older generation, or like, you know, who have just come out recently, they were like coming out at school or being queer at school would be the hardest or has been the hardest thing, even in 2010. [00:05:30] Yeah, but I mean, the thing that I always say is that, um, a high school, especially, is like It's a micro organism of what society is like. You know, it's it's this tiny enclosed. It's a tiny little world with all these people who are They're like a hyper version of everything. They would be in the outside world, you know, everything's everything's so much more intense within high school, and there's so many more lines drawn. You know you have to be [00:06:00] this or you're that or you know, or you have You can't be that because then you can't be that, you know, like, because I kind of thought there was this, um, not a stereotype, but a perception that schools today or young people today were really, really open and really, you know, no boundaries. No, not no gender, but really fluid. And that kind of all environments are very judgmental, and they're very compartmentalised. You have to What does it depend on your school as well to an extent. But I still think that it's a hard thing to be out at school because [00:06:30] they are so based on stereotype and everyone at school. Everyone's a bastard. You know, kids are cruel. Yeah, even when at school, I was still at school? No, I'm at uni. I didn't have I have too bad a time, but I mean, I I've always been one of those people who sort of, like, stood separate from the crowd and didn't really care. There are a lot of people who do care and take all that stuff to heart. And I mean, just to go back to the previous point. I mean, a lot of people do think that school today [00:07:00] is a lot easier because they look at society and they see that it's so much easier than when they were young. But no one understands what being a high schooler now is like unless they are one. And I mean society can be, you know, a lot more accepting or not openly opposed or anything. But school is, you know, it's not going to change for a long time unless a lot of stuff is done, you know, So has it gotten? Is being queer kind of not an issue anymore? Now that you're not at school, it is [00:07:30] an issue, and I think that it's some it's It's like, you know, homophobia is like racism. It's it's always around and you know it's bad form to you might not get beaten up in the street, and and it's bad form to insult it. And you know everyone. Everyone frowns upon it. But I think that everyone still has these little prejudices and little uh, you know, ideas of what things should be. And it's very hard to see outside of what their ideas are, Uh, and [00:08:00] I think that's the main problem and I think it's almost I think it's almost worse now because I mean, when when it was clear that you couldn't come out or else you get the crap beaten out of you or whatever, you knew where the boundaries were. You knew where the lines were. You knew how that worked. But now, because it's so pushed under the carpet because you're not supposed to say, Hey, I hate gay people or whatever. I think it's a lot. It's a lot more vicious and a lot more poisonous because it is, It is. It is those secret whispers. It is those those behaviours that you can't pinpoint [00:08:30] and say That's homophobia because, you know, people don't want to show that they're homophobic, But still you can still tell. Well, it's it's still behaviour that stems from homophobia. But I mean, no one does it blatantly enough. Is it a look or do people? When I came out, the thing I had a problem with with was suddenly I had a lot more friends, like when I came out and I was sort of looking around and I was I was sort of, you know, they still had they still were uncomfortable with a lot of queer things that I said, and [00:09:00] I think that they suddenly sort of attached themselves to me so that they could look accepting, even if they not necessarily were. Yeah, so it was kind of like they were because they were friends with you. Therefore, they couldn't be homophobic. And so it excuses all their behaviour. And I think also the other side of the coin is people sort of deciding not to be friends with you. And it's not It's not necessarily it's not outright said. It's because you're gay, But, I mean, it's it's kind of So does it happen to you? Yeah. I, [00:09:30] I had, um a lot of a lot of the girls at my school wouldn't be friends with me or would sort of avoid me because I came. I came out really young. I came out in year 10. Um, when I was 14. That's 14. Uh, for me, I was I was 13, But, um, and it sort of Yeah. So that sort of coloured who I was all through school and there were girls who would just not get to know me, even though I was friends with their friends. They would purposefully not get to know me. If we're hanging out in the group, they would avoid [00:10:00] me because they just they didn't want to know, You know, for another thing for me was it was like I have. I had people who were like, Well, I'm fine with gay people But he rubs it in my face so I don't want to have to deal with them. And I'm like, I, I you know, I have a right to talk about my boyfriend Occasionally, I think I think that's it. They if you talk about who you're with or if if I said to someone, Oh, I have a crush on this guy and I think he's really cute. They see that in your face. They see that as me, sort of dancing [00:10:30] semi naked, going. I'm gay, I'm gay. I like it at the bottom. It's also that other thing of like, um, I would find if I would ever admit to having a crush on a straight girl. Everyone would be like, but she's straight. You can't have a crush on her. It's like, you know, I. I mean, I I've I've had a crush on, um, guys who have later found out to be gay. You know, that doesn't it doesn't stop me from having a crush on them that the and people just kind of I don't know. They just want you to stick [00:11:00] to your own kind and not really talk about it like they're OK with it as a in in theory. But when it's in practise and and then there's also the, uh I'm gay. Oh, do you have a crush on me? Uh, no. Well, why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's It's a major double standard. I remember very clearly when I was Oh, this is like I think it was fourth form. Um, I think it was Yeah, and we're having a party. We're all hanging out at my friend's place. [00:11:30] And, um, we're playing. Do you know the game? Gay chicken? No. OK, yes. You start in someone's place and you start like you start like, touching them like you can. You can either start out their foot and work your way out, or you can get close to, like, kiss or whatever. And the person who pulls away first is the gay chicken for some reason, I always want. But I mean, um, so you do it with someone of the same gender And, um, me and this girl who's actually quite a good friend of mine, um, were picked to go, and [00:12:00] I remember really clearly we were getting really close, and then she was like, No, no, no, I can't do it. You'll get off on it. And I was like, Excuse me, I already have, but it's like she's one of my best friends. I mean, I don't see her sexually at all, but she couldn't separate that line. I mean, she had really close guy friends and she couldn't understand that was the same thing for me, you know? And I think that's it's kind of that assumption. That's kind of sad. Really. Yeah, it's It's that assumption that you'll immediately like every guy or every girl you know, [00:12:30] Um, which is ridiculous. And then there are some of us who actually do like it. So what are the kind of things that you'd like to change in society if you were, I don't know, given a magic wand or something, I think I would. I would, um even the expectations for, um for queer people and straight people, you know, like a straight person isn't always expected to have a boyfriend or to always be talking about, you know, like change those expectations and also change the sort of the I don't know how the phrase is [00:13:00] it. OK, I'll talk out of my house. No, it's It's, I think what is trying to say is that like what? What I'm trying to say, I don't know. I'm not gonna speak. Speak for me if you want. No, I won't. Because I'll be wrong and you'll tell me that, Um, no, I think for me, it's I sort of don't want to lose the difference or the quirkiness. That gayness is seen as because I kind of like that. I like the fact that we're sort of our own thing. Lots. Lots of people are like we want to just [00:13:30] be into normal society. And I'm like, Well, no, I want to be seen as a sub something of society. I want to be seen as the queer community because I like the gay community and I like it being as it is, but it would be nice to to see it. Yeah, as Esme was saying, accepted and like like So if I came out to someone, they wouldn't think I would instantly like them, and and they wouldn't be like, Oh, I have a cousin who's gay. Would you like me to set you up? You [00:14:00] know, and it's like, you know, all gay people have sex, so they don't think that, you know, I'm gonna go out and have sex every night and, you know, I, I you know, I'd like to be seen as gay, but I don't want to be seen as fitting a stereotype or anything. I don't want them to go. Oh, he's gay because he acts like this and he looks like this. I want to be known as he's gay because he likes guys. I think that's sort of the I think it should also be changed on, like straight Guys who are a little bit camp shouldn't be immediately assumed to be gay, you know? And I think [00:14:30] just coming back to what you're saying about keeping the community, I think it's like a news interview coming back to what you were saying. I think It's like, um, tell us about the weather as well. My name is sunny showers. There are there are a lot of ethnic groups who are a part of society, but they also have their own community and their own celebrations and their own. So I think I think it should be like that. Like I mean, it's perfectly OK to be German in a New Zealand society, but you might also go and you know, we are leader, [00:15:00] leader house and and, you know, do strange dances with your family. And that's OK. I think it should be like that for gay people like it's OK to be gay at work or wherever, but you can still go and, you know, dance with a bunch of guys or girls or whatever. And it would be fun. You know, You'd know this too, because you're from Malaysia. Is it Malaysia? Yeah. And you know, you you identify as Malaysian New Zealander and as a as a queer woman. And you know, being Malaysian New Zealander is its own thing. You're not just a person. You're a person who [00:15:30] is also a thing. It should be like I'm a person who is also gay. So how do you involve yourself with the queer community or the gay community? Lots of sex and drugs. Uh, of course, we we we go to high school and we recruit as well. That's a big part of our job. We're big Satanists. He did all of that. And so you do. You do? Yeah, [00:16:00] we do the radio show. Um, we're technically on the committee for Wellington Gay Welfare group Wellington, but we never go, but we're on the committee. Um, I I we both We both volunteer at, um, out in the square Every time I do. I do stage managing for it, and I've done stage managing for other queer, Um, the stuff, um I think for me more than being, Oh, I'm a part of this committee and this committee, and I do this this and that, I think No, no, no. I mean, that's good, too, that I'm not I'm absolutely [00:16:30] not dissing that because that's that's a really powerful thing to be using those those tools to, you know, work for all the things that we would love to have. But I think for me more part of the being part of the queer community is going to things like schools out, which is the youth support group we we are part of and just sort of Yeah, I think it's just about socialising with other people who identify as queer people who sort of get that part of your life. You know it. It's totally a social thing. It's like, You know, if you're a [00:17:00] pregnant woman, you want to go to pregnant woman groups and meet up with other pregnant women so that you can connect. I don't know why I'm using pregnant women as an example is a temporary Oh, no, no. But you know, like or like or like being. I'm trying to be serious for once in my life and you're ruining this for me. I'm sorry. Serious business faces. Um, what was I saying? So yeah, but it is like being German. You would want to go in a certain group and we leader hos all [00:17:30] day. It's like a socialising thing in media people, but there is also the charity aspect, like if you if you are important for you, totally I, I think it's for me. It's important, but not as a queer Person. But as a humanitarian, you know I do it because it's fun and it's a way to meet new people. I go out and I collect for AIDS Day and I both do it and you know, you get in the room and you meet all these people you've never met before, and you can use it as a socialising tool as well as doing good for other people. And that's [00:18:00] sort of how we're in the queer community just by just by being our nutty Selves and like being in the I don't think you have to like you don't have to go to gay bars or you don't have to volunteer at a or whatever to be a good person. It's perfectly acceptable, but those aren't requirements for it, but it's just it. It's things you can do to sort of be a part of the community, but you do have to take a test. You get a report card and a licence, and it tells you, you know, [00:18:30] get tested on well, whether whether you like the colour lavender is a big one. Spice skills and pop music hot pink, you've got to be able to, you know, be able to see someone with a big dick from 10 miles away. You gotta be able to you know, I can't do that. If you're a gay woman, you can't shave your legs. And if you're a gay man, you have to shave your legs. So both of us are out talking about stereotypes. Do you think [00:19:00] they still exist? I mean, you know, obviously mainstream is a thing, but do we have it within communities as well? And how is that different from what mainstream does? Like, you know, you'll see all the like, you see lots of people, and they're like, Oh, she's she's Trans. You know, I don't like her because she's Trans and she freaks me out. Or or, you know, he's a drag queen. So he must be a bottom. And he must, you know, do all the stuff. And he must not be a proper man and [00:19:30] and you know, So we're still prone to a lot of the same. And also because because I am, I am fat. I'm a bigger, bigger build. I'm a fuller bodied meal. Um, I'm instantly put into the bear category, and it's like I'm not a bear. I'm I'm not a walking carpet, you know, it's it's just there. There are still the bears and the twinks and the and the mega Fes and whatever they are, And for me, I come from a point of view where I I just find myself as but I I do. I am attracted [00:20:00] to males and females. I date both males and females, and I think the 3D um I think the the the straight community think a girl who wears docks immediately. I'm a lesbian and, you know, um and if a guy ever does want to date me, it's just because I'll have sex with girls in front of him or something. You know, I've I've actually had that experience of people expecting that of me and, um, in the queer community. It's I always get called a fag hag. I've had I've had that quite a lot. Or, um, I'm straight [00:20:30] but pretending or I'm just experimenting or whatever like that. And it's like actually, no, I've I've known I've liked girls since I was a kid, but I do like boys as well, you know, I think up with it. What do you think is up with kind of all the judgments or the assumptions, I think are people just bored from the community. I think because a lot of us feel that we've been judged our whole life, I think that we sort of feel it gives us a right to judge others. And that extends to people in our community. I think that a lot of people who judge and [00:21:00] the and the gay community uh so, like, say if and I were really judgmental and, you know, we were like, Oh, this person has to has Yeah, but, you know, if we were, like, stereotypical and like Oh, this person has to be a bear or this person has to be a twink. Uh, if we were like that, then I think we would be judging straight people. Just as much as we judge gay people, I think it is sort of a I think it is a defence mechanism, I think, especially from the queer community. A lot of the feeling I've got is that it was so hard to get acceptance and you [00:21:30] had to stand up and you had to say, I am a man who loves men. I am a woman who loves women, you know? And I think that battle was so hard, so hard for so many years. I think someone coming along who could fit into the norm of society or could go the other way. It's sort of like you don't you don't deserve to be a part of this community because we've fought so hard to form this community and we want to keep it safe, you know? And I think there's a lot of a lot of that worried that it's gonna start breaking down the integrity of what they [00:22:00] fought so hard for. And I mean, I, I kind of understand that. But at the same time, I, I really don't. Uh, when I first came out, I came out as bisexual because I thought, uh, when I came out the first time, uh, when I when I told myself when I was 11 that I was bisexual in quotation marks, Uh, and I came out to most of my school. Uh, when I was Oh, no. I came out to my friends when I was 11 as bisexual. Then, when I was, uh, 15, I came out to [00:22:30] all my school as bisexual. And then when I was 16, I realised that I was gay and I came out as gay. So when I came out as bisexual, I thought I'd do that because I thought it would be easier, because that way I would at least be perceived as half normal. You know, not that normal. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, Uh, and but also, when I was bisexual, I found out about schools out, and I was like, Well, I don't need to go to that because I'm not actually gay. And I'm not I. I sort of felt like I wasn't [00:23:00] worthy enough to go to it because I was bisexual, not gay. And it was a gay group. So this is like a big ranking system. Excuse me. I am not finished. I just say one tiny thing When I when I first came to school that I was scared about saying I was bisexual because for that same thing, So you were you You meet gay people before who had said no. It was just Yeah. And then So I thought it would be easier. And then when I came out as gay and I was like, I'm gay. I realised [00:23:30] that it was actually a hell of a lot more difficult to be bisexual because you sort of get fired at from the gay community and the straight community. And it's like the straight community are like, You're not one of us we don't want You and the gay community are like, You're not one of us, we don't want you. And then and then you're like, Well, maybe I'm Trans and the Trans are like, no fuck off. And I wanted puppy I. I definitely find that as well. Like when? Because I just I just say queer part of why I just say queer is because if I say bisexual or pansexual or whatever, there is their attitude. And when people find out here [00:24:00] hear me talking about hot guys or whatever, they're just like, Ah, there's this moment where they're like, Oh, so you're not one of us, you know? And, um II I won't I won't name any names, but I was working with me. I'm sorry. I was I was working on this project with a bunch of other queer people and I I knew I said I was a lesbian to anyone, you know, they just assumed because I said queer. And when the person who was in charge of this project found out that I wasn't a lesbian but was, um, attracted to all genders, Um, [00:24:30] he kind of went a bit funny about that. And then he talked to Brendan, my youth worker, about that, and was and was asking him questions and asking him what he thought about it behind my back. And I was like, So there was a bit of education work done, but how is that even relevant? I'm here working in a Semiprofessional capacity. I'm I'm definitely queer. I'm definitely part of the community. I mean, it's not even relevant, And it wouldn't even be any of his business. Even if you are gay, it [00:25:00] doesn't give you a right to question a little bit more of kind of. Wow. I've never met anybody who didn't identify as gay or straight. Or is it? How, how new? And it was a who that's really whack. It was, um I don't believe you. And I think a lot of it is also when they do believe you. You're also perceived as greedy or just you don't think it's a young person thing. As in Oh, you're so young, you wouldn't know You haven't made up your mind Do you think it's a It's definitely a bisexual or pansexual or a queer? I think [00:25:30] I think it's more a prejudice against people who do, like, um, who aren't just gay, you know? And I think it's there's this perception of of being fake or being indecisive or being or just experimenting. Yeah. How did the rest of your friends when you came out to them, how did they all? Uh, most. Most of my friends were really good. One of one of them went a bit funny for a while. Uh, because he was like and I I've known him all all my life, And he was [00:26:00] I think mainly he was like, Well, why didn't you actually say anything before? And I think a lot of it was he was hurt, that he wasn't the first to know, or because I didn't tell him first because he was my best mate. And it would It was gonna be a hell of a lot harder to to tell him this, Uh, so I think a lot of it was the hurt, but mainly from my friends and close group of friends. They knew that I was sort of thinking about it, and I think most of them were OK, Uh, some of them, I think, are still uncomfortable with it, and they try to hide it with sort of humour. [00:26:30] But they at least put up the front of being accepting and and, you know, But, you know, they get to you get yeah, they're not they they're not sort of I hate gays. They're just sort of uncomfortable, and they don't know how to deal with it, even though they've been out for years and they're starting to come up, you know, be fine with it. But it was like they're like, Well, you're gay and they sort of mask it with humour. And they're you know, if I say something attractive about a girl and they're like But you're gay, she doesn't have a Penis, you know, just weird shit like that. And it's It's fine. They are trying. [00:27:00] I think for me, I, um I was the second in my group of friends to come out as bisexual, and I was quite new to the group of friends, and this other girl who had come out was she'd been friends with these girls since she was, like, five, you know, And so whatever she said, they were going to have to accept her. And when I came out, it was like they understood they would have been hypocritical if they weren't OK with it with me. But I think that's it's one of the things that always has always kept me a little bit distant [00:27:30] from that group of friends. Is them not knowing how to deal with that? You know, I'm not their friend. They've known since they were five, so they don't know me well enough, and that's kind of it's It's always been sort of Yeah, a slight, a slight thing that's sort of gotten between the friendships. Um, but I mean, I've I've I never really had I. I had really close friends when I was a kid, but all through high school I didn't really have really close friends until I came to school out because I just I apart from one girl, I just never really [00:28:00] clicked with people on that level and I think a lot of that was the queer thing was that people immediately sort of got this idea about me and and kept their distance. I think that one of the hardest things for a lot of straight people is sort of the feeling that that that that they have to accept it, It's just sort of like, you know, they're like, I have to accept it and they don't really get time to actually think about it and come to terms with it themselves. They're just because, you know, homophobia is seen as wrong in most circles. So a lot of people, they [00:28:30] may feel uncomfortable about it and they may have natural prejudice and they're like, Well, I actually feel this, but I have to act like I'm totally cool with it And I think that can be a hard for a lot of people and also when they bottle it up and not push it down, that it becomes more toxic. They have to. They have to come to terms with that. So do you think there should be like a straight people? I think a straight people support group for parents. So why can't there be groups for friends? I think I think it is. It is such [00:29:00] a It's a huge bombshell to drop on anyone, no matter how we feel that it shouldn't be because it shouldn't be. Everybody still assumes that everybody's straight unless they're told otherwise. Or, um and it. It shouldn't be this big bombshell, but the fact is that it is. And I think a lot of queer people get defensive when they come out, because it's such a hard thing to do. And you know, if anyone isn't immediately like Oh my God, you're gay that's so fantastic. It's it's It's a hard thing to deal with And I think when people have to fake that, it's really hard for them. [00:29:30] Did any of you Who are you talking to? Did struggle with yourselves with coming out? I think for me the hardest thing was, um I. I always knew that I I was attracted to both genders and I think for me there was this. There was this attitude coming from somewhere that you had to be straight or gay, and that was the thing I struggled with for a few years was like, I can't just [00:30:00] be a lesbian. I can't just be straight. I can't. I can't fit into those. And that that was hard. And then actually, in sixth classes, the idea of bisexuality got introduced. And then I was like, OK, I have a label now. I'm OK. And after that, I was I was fine with myself. It was it was that not knowing that it was an option that was hardest for me. Yeah, I. I came out as bisexual because I thought it would be normal. I didn't want to be seen as fully gay. Um, but apart from that and it was only a very vague, vague, vague notion in my [00:30:30] head that I didn't want to be seen as fully gay, you know, because it wasn't like it wasn't a decision going. I don't want to be gay because I didn't click that I was gay until later. I think it was a subconscious thing. I was going. I don't want to be seen as gay. Yeah, uh, but really, apart from that minor, vague sort of notion in the back of my head, I was I was fine with it within myself. uh, I'm too arrogant. I love myself too much to give a rat's ass healthy. [00:31:00] I think I think that two of the things that make us so confident and able to do things like the radio show and and be so welcoming schools out which we are. And it's what makes us be such great friends as well. Yeah, it is because we've always just had this confidence about about that. I mean, we've we've both had minor struggles, but it's never been a huge thing. And I mean, I absolutely have sympathy for people who for whom it is a huge thing. And I, I really and you [00:31:30] can totally understand everything that they're going through. It's just it never affected us as badly in a lot of ways, I've had similar struggles with different issues in my life, so I can I can empathise with that and it's fantastic that you are both kind of out there on all these committees and on the radio and everything, so that, you know, it's kind of that whole role model thing so people can see we don't have to be sad queers. We can be happy sick of the gay eggs. Man, [00:32:00] every gay film is like OK, Ah, a 2009. Well, actually, there's There's this movie I was actually talking about on the radio today. All over. The guy has no angst about being gay. All the angst is about the fact that these two guys just can't seem to make it work. And one of them is an alcoholic. So tell us where we can listen to. I don't we always screw up Wellington if we'd like to listen to you and laugh at you. Wellington Access Radio [00:32:30] 783 AM Monday is 3 30 till five. It's Queer Zone, and we're also you can find various stuff about us on the website. We're on Facebook, Wellington Access Radio Dash Queer and we also have an email address that you can email us at, which is Queer Youth on access at gmail dot com. That's all Lower case. A case with no symbols. It's a queer youth. On access at gmail dot com. I'm Mike and I'm thank you for listening. Stay cool. New Zealand [00:33:00] stay queer.
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