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Kia ora, my name is Willow Heron. My, uh, pronouns are she, her, and I whakapapa to Kai Tahu, and I am whakawahine. I am the coordinator for the Pōneke March for Trans Healthcare and Trans Rights. Um, I am co coordinating this, uh, with Caden Tipler up in Tāmaki Makaurau. And, yeah, we're gathered here today to, uh, speak to Parliament about.. Uh, the hole which is currently in our healthcare pathways for transgender people and how we can bridge that gap and [00:00:30] provide support to vulnerable communities. Can you just describe, uh, where we are and, and what we see around us? Yeah, so we're currently at the Parliament steps and we are surrounded by, uh, Only one word I can use to describe as community, um, and I'm really stoked with the march has even started and we've already got a plethora of people who've turned up, so Yeah, really excited to see this kaupapa come into light and go underway. It's been a lot of planning, um, you know, both in the past few months of myself and the co coordinator planning, but also [00:01:00] historically, this fight started decades before most of us were even born. Why was it important to march today? Uh, yeah, I mean, as we're currently looking at, uh, The waitlist for accessing gender affirming surgeries, hormones and such, it has, it has for a long time now been completely inaccessible, not resilient, and we really need to change that. So I think this is a good time to be showing the government that we do need change, and we are here to make that change, and we're not going to [00:01:30] stop. Today we're going to stop once we have equitable healthcare. Today we're starting at Parliament. Where are we marching to? We'll be marching down Lambington Quay and to Civic Square where we'll disperse at the end. If a politician is listening to this, what would you like to say to them? Um, hear us. Listen to us. I don't need you to understand why we are the way we are, but I need you to respect us and provide us the care that we are demanding. For too long we have been neglected and that needs to [00:02:00] change. I am non binary. Oh, actually, I take that back. I use they, them pronouns. I don't necessarily, um, align myself with non binary necessarily, but either way I'm trans, and therefore this, um, affects me as it affects all the other trans youth, but it also affects me as much as it affects anyone else in Aotearoa, you know? Um, it's important. It's.. and we need to be heard, so that's why I'm here. Yeah. How would you encourage other people to [00:02:30] come out and join us on the march today? Um, use your voice however you can, however you feel strong enough to. You are stronger than you know, so use your voice. Um, I think that's really important. It's something I'm learning to do. Um, and try to be proud of who you are and find pride in maybe other people. Because there's a lot of pride around you, you know? And that sounded like a pride slogan, so um, Yeah, um, [00:03:00] yeah, it's really important to just Learn more about yourself and who you are in this world, especially in the world we're in today. Um, so yeah, I guess that's my answer. It's kind of broad, but yeah, yeah. What do you think are the biggest issues that the trans and non binary people are facing today in Aotearoa? Um, I would say erasure and I would just say, yeah, I would say erasure for the most part. We aren't hurt. Like, we need to be seen, we [00:03:30] are part of the population, we are the population, you know. And more and more people realize that by the day, that they are. Yeah, so, it's, it's everyone. Everyone needs to be heard. You know, yeah. If there was like a politician listening to this audio, what would you have to say to them? Um, use your voice and speak out even if you aren't necessarily part of our community. Our community needs to be heard. A lot of communities need to be heard, granted, but ours is one of them. [00:04:00] And, yeah, speak out even if it goes against what you know. Because it's what needs to happen. And, yeah. Uh, why do you guys think it's important for us to come here and show our support for the trans community? Well, uh, we've been pretty underfunded, you know, forever. Like, there's, as far as I know, there's one surgeon doing any trans related surgeries in the country. It's pretty abysmal. So, I, you know, [00:04:30] I think we really need to come show that, you know, we're not being represented properly. Yeah. I have to wait nine years just for a first appointment, for, you know, for the kind of healthcare I'm looking for, which, you know, really, in any other group would be completely unacceptable. Yeah. But, because it's not seen as essential at all, you know. It's kind of stuck. I guess like, yeah, trans healthcare rights are just human rights, [00:05:00] and people seem to forget that, or it's not really reflected in legislation and stuff like that. What do you guys think the first steps would be to improve the healthcare? I mean, we're already, like, getting some doctors from overseas because we're having the, you know, the shortage. So I think, I think while we're doing that, we, you know, we could definitely, like, try and encourage some surgeons to come over who have specialized in that area. And also.. Maybe, you know, have some kind of [00:05:30] incentive for people in New Zealand to train into that industry, because Yeah, one surgeon for a whole country is It's not good enough. Yeah I think also awareness of just the general public that this is an issue. Uh, what brings you guys out here today? Um, well you know, we've got trans family and questioning people of our own and this is a really important cause and it's great to be here, yeah. How would you guys [00:06:00] encourage other people to come out and join us in the march today? I know for certain people, coming out and supporting in person can be difficult, especially with COVID restrictions. But, you know, online presence is great. Spreading information, trying to combat misinformation, especially with some of the stuff around the law changes, is honestly the best thing people can do, I think. What do you guys think the biggest issues that the trans and non binary people are facing of Aotearoa are? I think, in terms of being able to get the [00:06:30] necessary surgeries and therapies at the moment, while better than other countries, it's still difficult here, and um, lots of people don't realize that unless it's affecting you personally. And so, it can be really hard if it's just you against the system, and that can be really difficult and really awful, but being here together in a community shows that you're not alone, and that's awesome. What do you think the steps are to progress to that sort of more equal space? Um, [00:07:00] I think education is a really, really big thing. Um, like I deal with lots of different communities, especially older people, and their hearts are in the right place, a lot of them, but they don't know the right things to say and that can scare them and they don't speak out when that really shouldn't be the biggest issue. Um, and then some people obviously are just.. Convinced by things that are simply untrue and so they generate all this hate when it really shouldn't be there, but um, you know Getting out there, showing ourselves, showing that we're not these big [00:07:30] scary people. Um, I think that'll help a lot in just raising awareness. Kia ora, ko Talia tōku ingoa. Uh, what brings you out here today? Um, trans rights, trans liberation, human rights, trans rights, same thing. Um, yeah, and I just really believe in the power of, um, of people and coming together and making ourselves visible. Um, yeah. Yeah. Um. How would you encourage other people to come out and [00:08:00] support this march today? Um, well, I'm always really concerned, like, specifically with my own communities, and um, so to the, like, Māori and Pasifika communities, I would say that trans rights are a really important part of decolonization work. Um, these identities are part of Pacific Māori identities, um, and I think that it's really important for reclamation work, um, to show up for those communities, yeah. If there [00:08:30] was a politician listening to this audio, would you have anything you would like to say to them? I would just say how disappointed I am to not see them here today. Yeah, yeah, I love that answer. Yeah, just like, it would be great to know that, that, um, people in, uh, the big house really care about us as well. Um, and by us, I mean all supporters of the trans community. But specifically the trans community. Yeah. Awesome. Do you have any ideas of what could improve for maybe specifically the healthcare system that we have? [00:09:00] Uh, my answer is going to be really skewed towards, um, believing in the Māori Health Authority. Um, because I think that healthcare from a te ao Māori indigenous worldview inherently includes trans health. So I would say co governance is the answer. Um. For, um, equity in healthcare. Hi, I'm, my name is Lelion Tretheau and I'm a trans woman working and living in Te Whanganui a Tara, [00:09:30] Wellington. And I'm here today because it has been an absolute f ing nightmare getting the healthcare I need. The system just doesn't work. The policies in theory are good, but the funding and access to make it reality is not there. Can you give me some examples of what's so mucked up about the system? Uh, getting onto hormone replacement therapy was fairly straightforward, because I happened to have enough money to go through a psychologist to get the letters I needed. And after [00:10:00] that it's very easy to maintain. Uh, getting onto the waitlist for GRS has been.. A nightmare, mostly because my doctor just doesn't know how. And then the actual waitlist itself is.. Uh, I might live to see the end of it. Probably not, though. It's ridiculous. So, when you're presented with those huge waitlists, I mean, how does that make you feel? It delayed me even trying to go on the waitlist by ten years, because what's the fucking point? I'll be dead before I get to the [00:10:30] front of it. If not of old age, well, there are other ways to wind up dead. And that's also leaving aside all the other parts of healthcare that are really important as well. Like, I haven't been able to get access to voice therapy, which I would find personally really useful. And other, facial feminization surgery, breast augmentation for me. As a trans femme would be, some of those I don't want, some of those I do want, but it's just, again, impossibly difficult to get. [00:11:00] And from all the trans men I've spoken to, the situation is no better for them. Do you think the situation has got better or worse, or is it just status quo? It's got better. Not in the sense that the system is really functional, but in the sense that there's a lot more awareness of how dysfunctional the system is. One of the particularly good things I saw was a study by Ministry of Health, and their announcement of extra funding. And that, yes, that funding would have cleared out the 30 or [00:11:30] 40 people on the waitlist at the time. Which then ballooned to 300. It showed just how much pent up demand there was. And it also shows in today's turnout for today's march. Can you just describe, for me, we're in Parliament grounds, can you describe, um, the people that have turned up and some of the signs? Uh, yeah, we've got a huge spectrum of people, from cis allies to all various forms of LGBTQIA plus people. Uh, [00:12:00] we've got trans women, trans men, non binary people. Just a huge.. All across the spectrum, all across the socio economic and age spectrum as well. It's a complete rainbow, quite honestly. Uh, we've got signs such as Hells Trans Youth, we've got Trans Rights are Human Rights. I'm personally carrying a Trans Solidarity flag from the International Socialist Organisation. Lots of flags from [00:12:30] lots of different people. What does it mean personally for you today to be marching? It means more chance of raising awareness, hope that maybe someone will address the system, someone in power, maybe they're listening, probably they're not. I can only hope. Well, hopefully in today's march, and also in these recordings, we'll be able to, to reach some of those politicians. That's fine. Actually. Do, do you know if any politicians are coming today? I honestly don't know. [00:13:00] I would speak, however, and call out Grant Robertson directly. I've had some enrollment with speaking to Grant Robertson about this, and that was not a particularly effective conversation. Also, as part of Queer Endurance Defiance, a queer rights group I'm part of, we had some engagement with the Associate and Minister of Health last year, which was pushed off as an operational matter and they were not interested in actually helping. And just finally, if politicians are [00:13:30] listening to this recording, what would you like to say to them? Do better. You've got the power. You can use it to help people. Please, use it. Help people. We need your help. So what brings you out here today? Helping our trans community march for what's right. If you could like, describe the atmosphere of this march today. I know it hasn't really started, but as of now, how would you describe it? Important. Yeah. That's what I'm feeling at the moment. [00:14:00] What brings you out here today? Um, to talk to the parliament and the government to make trans healthcare more accessible for everyone. Yeah. And what do you think the first steps for that happening are? I think accessibility is in maybe more education surrounding the public and medical professionals is a massive step. Not only getting more funds, um, but I think education is the biggest part. Yep. As a trans person going to, um, lots of GPs I've had so many [00:14:30] unsafe experiences and I think that's the biggest step that we could do. Yep. If you had an opportunity to talk to someone in parliament, what would you first say? Please understand this is a life and death situation. This is not just something we choose. Um, having had top surgery just seven weeks ago, I can see the impact that it's had on my life. It's been life changing. I can wake up and feel that I'm connected to my body. Um, yeah, please take us seriously. How would you describe the atmosphere of this march today?[00:15:00] Uh, it's lively, there's a lot going on, um, And, uh, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of us, a lot of colours, um, A lot of organising to do, but we're getting there, we're gonna get there, and we're gonna be loud and proud. Now! What do we want? Trans healthcare! When do we want it? Now! [00:15:30] I can see a lot of people, like, fighting for what's right and Doing what's right for today's generation. Um, I think it's amazing seeing everyone so loud and proud. I love it. I'm here for it. Can you, um, read some of the signs that are coming? Trans people have always been here. And that's facts. Care for trans people, I think they totally deserve more care, they deserve it. We fight today for a better tomorrow, I believe [00:16:00] in that. When do we want it? Trans rights are human rights. Trans rights are human rights. Trans rights are human rights. Trans rights are human rights. Trans health care is public health care. Trans health care is public health care. Trans health care is public health care. Trans health care is public health care. What do we want?[00:16:30] When do we want 20 trans male. And so this is very important. They get less access to a lot of care, there's very few surgeons that can perform surgeries for them, and therefore, I support them 100%. Trans [00:17:00] health is public health! Trans health is public health! Trans health is public health! Trans health is public health! Can you describe the scene? We've got, oh, several hundred people now marching down Langston Quay, shouting and screaming for trans health here, which is so long overdue. Can you describe the feeling? It's amazing, really energetic. You're watching which way we're going. I'm walking backwards in front of the crowd, and it is huge to hear everyone screaming. [00:17:30] Really good. Trans rights are human rights! Trans rights are human rights. Trans healthcare is public healthcare. Yeah, so we're demanding equitable trans healthcare. There are so many gaps in our healthcare system which are allowing people to fall through them. And thus we have disproportionate suicide rates, violence rates. People are turning to substance use. People are being, people are being attacked. We are demanding equitable healthcare. We are demanding justice for our [00:18:00] community. When you turn around and look at the march coming towards us, what do you, what do you feel? I feel community. I see community. This is a community of strong warriors. We've got healers, teachers. We have everyone in unison marching for a unified cause. What do we want? When do we want it? What do we want? When do we want it? My name is C, spelled C I, and we are [00:18:30] marching for trans rights and fighting for what's right for our trans communities. We are right at the front of the march here in Wellington. What is the feeling like? I feel very spiritual and I'm Taking a lot of people on board with me on this march today. Can you describe the crowd that's marching? Family, community, all fighting for what's right. If a politician was listening to this, what would you like to say to them?[00:19:00] There is a lot to be corrected here.[00:19:30] Heuri tēnei no Ngāti hoki. I'm here today just to be standing and marching in solidarity with our trans and i rawhiti whānau. And the energy is energetic and I feel like people, we all know that this is not good enough and that trans people deserve better. Um, trans healthcare is public healthcare. Can you describe the march today? How many people there are and what signs they're holding? So, there must be like a couple hundred, maybe, I don't know, I mean it feels like there's [00:20:00] 300, people. And, um, there are all sorts of signs of people just.. They're just fed up, fed up with these basic human rights being deprived for a particular part of our community. It's just wrong. Why was it important for you to be here today? Oh, just to show solidarity, um, as a, as a cis woman, um, yeah, just to show solidarity, to listen to the experiences and actually, you know, like, Just, just understand the [00:20:30] everyday realities for, for trans whānau whānau. What do we want? Trans health care! And when do we fucking want it? Now! What do we want? Trans health care! When do we want it? Now! More like fucking 20 years ago, are you kidding me? What do we want? Trans health [00:21:00] care! When do we want it? Now! Kia ora iti whānau, I fully did not plan on saying anything at the end of this, but I am just like, absolutely fucking blown away with the amount of turnout we've had, and the strong resilience of our community to come out here today and be visible. I understand how much you're putting on the line to, Be visible. I know you are sacrificing, you know, your, your safety and also your privacy by attending events like this. And I am [00:21:30] so tremendously grateful that you've all come out here today. I'm just, like, I'm just at a loss for words. You guys are all just amazing. Thank you so, so much. It is, I would be, like, really embarrassed if I started crying in front of all of you. But I, seriously, like, this has been something which has just been so close to my heart and I know so many of your hearts who are here. And I just, the amount of Aroha right now, I'm just, [00:22:00] wow, just, we better all be getting our designer coochies and our tits chopped off after this, like, are you kidding? Thank you, thank you all so much. Just to close, we thought we'd sing to Aroha. You all know the tune? Yes! Okay! Okay![00:22:30] [00:23:00] So I'm Luke. I'm a trans gay guy. Uh, and today we've been protesting for trans health care. Um, which is, you know, not too good in New Zealand and it obviously really needs to be better. So we're just kind of like, shoving it in their face and being like, you gotta deal with it. Um, and I've been leading, uh, some of the chants. [00:23:30] Uh, cause I was kind of in the middle and there wasn't like a megaphone or anything. So I've been doing that. Yeah, yeah, and I'm Toby. I'm non binary and it was really really cool to be a part of this experience today It was so cool to see such a large amount of like trans queer folk like marching through the streets Yeah, it was a really cool experience. What was that feeling like walking through Wellington like that? Uh, it's great It's like it's it's like the best form of anger you can get but it's like not even [00:24:00] anger. It's like A mix of that and happiness. It's like, aggressive happiness. And like, pride. And, you know, shoving it to him. You know, like, yeah. It was exhilarating, yeah. It was so cool to hear everyone chanting together and yelling together. And, like, Luke was yelling really loud. It was awesome, yeah. Had you been on other marches or other protests before? Uh, I've been on a climate strike. Um. When that was, uh, like, Two years ago? [00:24:30] Um, that was fun, yeah. Yeah, I've been on climate strikes and I'm involved with took school strike for climate, so I've done protests before, but I haven't been to a trans march before, so this was really nice. Is there any difference between, say, like, the climate march and the trans rally today? Is there a different feeling? Um, the amount of people is different, but with the feelings, I mean, this is just for me because, you know, uh, I have to deal with stuff like this, um, it's a lot more, [00:25:00] like, passionate and I don't, like, again, it's that weird aggressive happiness, like, you can't ignore us anymore, you know, yeah, just, yeah. Yeah, like, climate stuff is obviously very important, but with this Trans Rights March, I felt very personally connected to the issues that we were, um, talking about and protesting about, so it was, It was, yeah, it was really cool. It was, yeah, a different energy. So if a politician was hearing this, because I don't, I didn't see any politicians here today, eh? They don't bother. [00:25:30] I shouldn't say something too rude. No, go for it. Oh, they're pricks. I hate all of them. But if you, if you could say something directly to them, apart from them being pricks, what would that be? Um, can't ignore us anymore. Uh, you know, uh, face the music, um, we're not gonna let it go, um. I might seem, you know, angry and rude, but that might be that that is because of, you know, [00:26:00] how things are. I I in I don't think they deserve polite, Could you please do this? Could you please give us rights? I don't think they deserve that anymore, because it's been enough time. And, you know, people are dying, people are killing themselves, people are, you know. I've been close to it. Every, like, so many people have. And it's time to act up, and it's time for them to listen. Yeah, like, we're here, we're not going away, and we deserve to have just as good a quality of life as [00:26:30] everyone else in this country. Um, so it, you know, they really just need to do better. And they need to start listening to us, instead of being performative allies. Kyoto, it is the 11th of February, and I am here with.. Hi, my name is AJ. Hi, I'm George. Um, what brings you guys out here today? I personally, I want to be noticed. I want the government to notice us as a whole, as a community, to see that we're not going away, we're not a phase, we're not anything like that, we're going to [00:27:00] stay here and we will keep fighting and we will keep demanding until we get the access to the healthcare that we need. I wanted to be a part of the numbers, uh, you know, add, add my voice to the, um, to the many, many people here, uh, today asking for, um, accessible trans healthcare. Uh, what steps do you reckon that, uh, would provide that accessible healthcare for trans and non binary people of Aotearoa? There's a lot of things, really, and it sort of really does [00:27:30] depend on the, on the person as well. Cause depending on if they're, they're trans femme, trans masculine, or if they're non binary. Um, everybody needs different things, and not everybody wants all the surgeries, not everybody wants hormones or anything. Everybody needs different things to feel the way that they are. Shorter waitlists. Imagine being a young trans person. Uh, going through puberty and feeling like you're on a ticking clock, uh, you know, every, every month, [00:28:00] making your, your transition more difficult and, and making you, uh, you know, make, making the life that you've envisioned from yourself, uh, less, less likely, but, um, Especially since, um, you know, uh, you're watching your body turn into something that is just wrong. It's just this thing that you don't really recognize when you look in the mirror and you're just sort of horrified. Like, what is that? I don't recognize it. It's not [00:28:30] me. How would you encourage other people to come out, for example, like a day like today, to march with us and have their voices be heard? Even if it's just quietly in the back, you know, just kind of walking along, doing just even anything little can help, can go a long way. Just adding even one person can show that there's more people who need this, who need this help, who need this health care. It, it just shows that, you know, there's more of us and we're not trying to hide and [00:29:00] we're present and we will continue to fight. You know, when, when, when you have the, when you have the safety and, and confidence to do that and know that your trans Bono is, is here for you when you do. How would you say the turnout of today's event went? It went fantastically. I mean, I kind of hoped for a complete swarm of the, city center, but we got a good 400, 500 [00:29:30] people, I would guess, at an eyeball estimate, and that's pretty fucking excellent. That's awesome. And I, it was, you know, we had a lot of trans people, and everyone, and then a lot of cis allies as well, and everyone showing a lot of, showing a lot of strength, showing a lot of, um, determination to call for our rights as trans people, um, and It was a pretty diverse turnout, with trans people [00:30:00] at the front, and moderately trans women at the front as well, which was particularly important, because you don't always see that in pride events, um, and I think that's kind of essential when we are in Aotearoa in this colonial situation, and queer rights are inherently tied to the rights of indigenous people. What do you think are the biggest issues that trans and non binary people of Aotearoa face today? I mean, it's hard to know where to start, just the fundamental fact that [00:30:30] when you are, that all trans people experience this transphobic discrimination, and we are not, our humanity is denied to us when we are in the sense of basic. Like, we experience employment discrimination at enormous levels, um, and that you can't really track that, it's just like, Often it's just obvious that like, Most [00:31:00] places aren't gonna hire the kinds of people that a lot of trans people are, and a lot of businesses will be afraid of. Having someone who looks strange represent them. We are perceived as looking strange. We are subject to hatred and discrimination from members of the general public in terms of being, you know, anything from a funny look to having your parents tell you that you're going to hell and that you don't deserve to live. Um, [00:31:30] and it can be pretty terrifying. So, yeah, transphobia I guess is the fundamental issue, and healthcare in terms of what the state does is, I think, really the biggest thing, like, there's the cultural issues that I've described that will take complex, um, cultural change to, for us to get rid of, but what the government can absolutely do is just fucking fund our [00:32:00] health care more, give us, you know, people will have said that the waiting list for bottom surgery is like 12 years, I think, and there is.. In some DHVs, no access to publicly funded top surgery. Um, people either have to rely on, on family, on enormous wealth on their family's part, or rely on strenuous crowdfunding campaigns for tens of thousands of dollars, or save by working ridiculous hours. I personally am [00:32:30] having to take a year off of my university studies. Which I wouldn't otherwise want to do, so that I can save for my personal surgery because that would, I just wouldn't be able to live with myself if I wasn't doing everything I could to get that, to get that as fast as possible. But um, that's something that the government could really easily fix just by funding it. Do you think that um, funding would be the first [00:33:00] step to sort of, resolve? Um, or better the lives of trans and non binary people in healthcare, in the healthcare system? Yes, more funding, and I mean the public, the healthcare system in general. is experiencing a crisis of underfunding. Um, but trans healthcare, particularly within that, also, also because of the legacy of transphobia, the fact that this has never historically been viewed by the government as a priority, and it [00:33:30] absolutely should be viewed as a priority. Uh, I'm Frankie. And I'm Nick. So how does it feel to be out here today? Uh, pretty nervous, like, I consider myself non binary, but I'm still questioning that, I'm still figuring it out. Um, I can still consider myself very much an egg at the moment, so it was just nice to be here with my trans community. I definitely felt a bit anxious coming out, because I love being out and proud, but it can be difficult sometimes with [00:34:00] what's going on, but I'm proud I joined in. How would you two describe the atmosphere of today's event? A lot of joy, I would say, like definitely a lot of happiness of being together. I would say loving, yeah, loving. What do you think the biggest issues that affect trans and non binary people of Aotearoa are? Um, I know for myself it's definitely healthcare and being supported with mental health as well. It's very difficult for me as like, trans non binary mask to receive that support. [00:34:30] And I want to see my brothers and sisters and non binary friends get that support too. I would agree with what Nick said. What do you think the steps are to progress and to, um, Better fix our healthcare system at the moment. Probably the first step is just acknowledging it by the government. Because I feel like they're just ignoring it at the moment because they can just sweep it under the rug. And if they don't acknowledge it, we can't go anywhere. Kia ora, today I am here with.. [00:35:00] Will Hanson. Always becoming ing. What brings you out here today? I just wanted to, um, I mean, I'm trans, and we're both trans, and we wanted to just support, um, the people who are organizing it, and make sure that they've got numbers, and that they're feeling safe and good, and, um, just, yeah, that trans healthcare is important, and it's something that's affected both our lives a lot, um, so it was just important to come here and be supportive, yeah.[00:35:30] If you could describe the atmosphere of today, how would you describe it? Um, uh, it was pretty awesome. There were lots of people. My favorite part was, uh, doing the big march down the street because we took up the footpath. And it, uh, it made me feel really good, I guess, um, which is really nice. I've never been part of a trans protest before, um, so it felt fantastic to feel the solidarity and to listen to everyone's experiences. It felt really good. Yeah, it felt really good to see The general public [00:36:00] noticing us as well. What do you think the biggest issues that trans and non binary people have outed our face today? I think fascism, and I guess just the, the rise of the, the right and the ways that trans people are being targeted is really scary. And I think that everything that we're facing in terms of healthcare and, uh, like, legal rights and stuff is important. But, really, at the end of the day, if we're not [00:36:30] changing, um, like, society at a more fundamental level, and channel challenging those really malicious, um, ideologies, that that's the really important thing for me. How would you say the next steps are to progress? Um, to a better future for our, you know, takatapui, people of Aotearoa, even in like the healthcare system as well, how can the healthcare system progress further as well? Um, I think the most important thing is, is following takatapui, trans takatapui [00:37:00] especially, um, and just, uh, yeah, working in communities as much as possible and everyone supporting each other, um, you know, working, working with each other and listening with each other rather than paying more attention to what's going on externally. Um, I wanted to, is it okay if I say one more thing? I just wanted to put it on the record that, um, when I've been doing my study, I found that, uh, the earliest recorded protest, uh, for trans issues in New Zealand happened in [00:37:30] 1974 in Christchurch. It was a sit in outside the public toilets, um, organized by Pindy Hurring, who was a trans sex worker. And, uh, she had organized this group called the Transsexuals and Transvestites Union, uh, which was a subgroup of.. Christchurch Gay Liberation Front, and they did a protest outside these public toilets in Christchurch in 1974, and it was a collaborative sit in with the local lesbian feminist group, um, SHE, um, and I just think that it was really special to be part of a protest that's sitting now within that history. [00:38:00] And, um, we can have, have and acknowledge that history of, of queer solidarity, of lesbian, feminist, and trans activist solidarity. Um, and that it's, uh, yeah, important to honor, honor those, honor those histories of protest that we're now sitting in. Um, and, yeah, that's, I just wanted to put that on the, on the record. Thank you so much. That's really good to know. Okay. Thank you. We've just had a march protesting for trans rights, for trans medical healthcare, for the [00:38:30] trans community, which is so horribly undeserved, faces so much violence, from the healthcare system that's supposed to protect and we've just had a couple of hundred people march from Parliament, down Lampton Quay, and to the Civic Square, yelling and shouting about trans healthcare. It's been amazing. And just that feeling was, was incredible, wasn't it? Oh, it was absolutely incredible. So much energy, so much passion from the crowd. They've been an amazing group of people.[00:39:00] .
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