This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
Two things she said. First one was that the marriage could not go on, and I respected her decision there. Uh, I wasn't going to continue to live a sham. Um, the second thing was that was, by way of empathy from her. Was that my God, You must have been going through sheer hell. I'm a very [00:00:30] logical person. Um, I'm one of those annoying people who always just have one piece of paper on their desk. Everything for me is filed away in little filing cabinets. Uh, and it only comes out when I need to use it. So I guess my my life and my way of working are very similar. So within the marriage, when I was when I was at home with the family, I was there. I was their father. I was, you know, the the the doting parent and all that sort of [00:01:00] thing. But when I was in a situation where I could be myself, then I was so Yeah, uh, I'm very good at Compartmentalising things. I can put things into slots and leave them there. And they don't overflow from one to the other in the early seventies. Once I had graduated from university. I knew full well that I was a homosexual. I did not know how to express myself. I didn't know what that was. I [00:01:30] was attracted quite openly to other men. But I did not know how to communicate that attractiveness for fear of making the wrong sort of contact or becoming rejected even if the person wasn't straight. Um, I found myself associating with people, other guys who I assumed were gay because we only ever assume this of each other. It was never sort of spoken [00:02:00] about as it would be these days and eventually found myself being propositioned by someone at the age of 23. I was still, actually, for all intents and purposes, a virgin. So I hadn't been with either a woman or a man. And I had got sick of it by this stage and thinking, right, I'm going to do something about it. So I did. But the price that I paid is that I didn't enjoy it. Um, there was no violence, [00:02:30] but the relationship was terribly one sided And just thinking No, this is not for me, I. I met up with a woman whom I had met two years previously, and we actually became very close friends to the extent that months later, we announced our engagement. Um and I suppose what it was for, what it was for me was that I had been so put off by this other thing that [00:03:00] I didn't like what I had experienced to the extent that I wasn't a I wasn't didn't feel confident about going out and finding the same thing, but with somebody else. But the fact that Jodie came along the woman I was going to marry, um I suppose my friendship with her grew so strong that in a way, I I was replacing, um, my true self, with some with something else that had just come [00:03:30] along. Now, I was aware of the decision I was making, um, to the extent that I went through with it, to the extent that we had two Children, I guess I first knew I was gay when I was 15. Um, that was when I was living in the UK before we came to New Zealand. Then I we came to New Zealand when I was 16, and it was in the days of the rugby, [00:04:00] racing and beer mentality, So I sort of suppressed it quite a lot. Although I did have the, um the very first love of my life, if you guess when I was about 18, and then, uh, I went back to the UK for the, you know, the usual holiday that people have. And I had another couple of flings over there, nothing very serious, but, uh, came back to New Zealand when I was 24 again to the the same sort of mentality, [00:04:30] uh, living in Dunedin, which is, uh, in those days, I guess a very unsophisticated time. And I decided that there was only one thing that I could do, and that was to actually get married and to conform. Um, so I did. I met a wonderful woman. Uh, I since found out that she was actually abused as a child, not sexually, but I guess she appreciated the female side in me and [00:05:00] felt comfortable with me. Whereas she wasn't comfortable with other men, necessarily. We were married for 30 years and have three sons. The eldest is No. 30. Uh, the youngest is 25. Well, I think that, uh, because I knew that I was different, and part of that a big part of it was my sexuality. I was attracted to a woman who was from a different cultural background, and, uh, that made for a very interesting relationship. [00:05:30] Uh, I also hoped, I guess, in retrospect, that that would mean that there was room, uh, for some, um, the exploration of my homosexual side. And as it transpired, and as kids started to come along, that turned out not to be the case. But I think at the back of my mind, always was the hope that I would be able to find a a stable relationship. But one, where there was the possibility that my homosexual side would not have to be shut out completely. [00:06:00] Um, as it turned out, that was not, uh, a practical option. And my understanding is that that is not, uh, an unusual situation. Um, and that, um, bisexual men often look, uh, to a single female partner with whom they have kids, But they also hope to be able to have relationships with men. And I think that creates an extraordinarily difficult situation. Certainly it didn't work in my case. Um But having said that, uh, I have three marvellous [00:06:30] Children as a as a result of that relationship. And, um, we have very positive relationships with both my former partner, the mother of my kids and my Children. I just began to feel that I was living a lie. I couldn't explain it as such, but, I mean, I was I was going [00:07:00] out. My my wife was out a lot. I was out a lot, so we were fairly independent types, but And I was going to gay venues, gay parties, meeting up with gay people and decided that if this was going to be found out, I would rather it came from me telling them than from somebody else telling them I felt that to be blunt, to come out, say it straight, be honest, was the only way. [00:07:30] I don't like to look upon it as a lie. It was something that I committed myself to. Um I suppose that it was more of a sham than a lie because I was I was deceiving myself, but I don't think I was lying to anyone. It would never became an issue. Um, if I was asked and Certainly when I was married, [00:08:00] there was lots of suggestion that he's gay. Is your husband gay? Um, my Ex-wife was able to say at the time, Of course he's not. Um, I gather that that was based on what sexual experiences we had and that they were regular and many. And, um, as far as I'm concerned for me, it wasn't, um, [00:08:30] a true expression of me, and I suppose you could look upon it as a lie. Uh, I made my beard and I. I had to lie on it. I. I felt quite secure in the way I was living until such time as I began to mix with different people. So I called everybody home for a dinner party [00:09:00] and, um, told him over coffee. The most difficult words I think that I've ever spoken in my life. I just simply said I am gay and I was watching the the boys and my wife. The boys, I suspect, knew, but my wife didn't. She was absolutely devastated and having spoken the words, I couldn't take them back [00:09:30] and actually didn't know what to do. Anyway. We continued living together for a while, but separate rooms and eventually she just said she couldn't take it anymore. She couldn't cope strangely enough, the when she was she was telling everybody they a lot of them came back and said, 00, we knew that. We just assumed that [00:10:00] you and Peter had come to an arrangement which, of course, was even worse for her, uh, to think that, you know, everybody around us knew and she was the one who didn't. Well, I was always a great one for being depressed and, um, opting out of life basically, uh, not going to work, not doing anything. Um, it was my way of just withdrawing into myself for comfort. [00:10:30] It had become a predominant behaviour. To the extent that, um it was suggested that I seek professional help. There was a lot of emotional drain. I did not want to give up the security that I had and the love that I had for nothing. At the same time, there was the irresistible pull of wanting to do something or be something that you had never had the opportunity to do to be [00:11:00] before, which was the essential self saying, putting its handing up, hand up and saying Hi. Naively. I thought when I told them that things would just carry on the way they always had been that, um they would accept it, Uh, that my wife would simply say, Oh, OK. And we would just carry on being the way we always had been, except that I wouldn't have this fear of being found out. Um, in retrospect, I I That [00:11:30] was a stupid thing. It was extremely naive of me to think that that could happen. Although it does happen in some marriages. Um, I, I have a number of friends who, um, are openly gay, and they're still living with their their wife. Um, that didn't happen in my case. Um, my wife is a very strong, independent person, and I guess she felt that I had let her down rather than been living a lie. [00:12:00] Um, perhaps I hadn't been completely honest with her, which I hadn't, of course, because I hadn't told her that I was gay. But the the inter reaction between us for all those years of marriage, really to me, I wasn't I didn't I wasn't forcing myself to do this. It was just something that I wanted to do I feel that, uh, my sexuality, like so much in my life, and, um, I suspect in others as well. However, [00:12:30] I can but talk for myself, uh, has been about starting off with some fairly grand ideals. And mine were to do in terms of sexuality with the ability, uh, to express my sexuality. Uh, basically, when I felt like it, and the whole process of maturation and growing older is about, um, uh, it would seem constraining one's instincts and, uh, one's natural, uh, feelings to, uh, in order to have [00:13:00] a functional life. And that's really what, uh, married life turned out to be for me. Uh, and I'm not sure how long. Um, I could have gone on suppressing the homosexual part of myself. Um, but it it created, uh, obviously, um uh, huge intentions. When, uh, one person in a relationship, namely me, wanted to be more, uh, experiential with regard to sexuality. And the other person wanted [00:13:30] to have a a committed relationship. And obviously that's a very difficult recipe to, uh, maintain. I didn't think it took a lot of courage at the time because it was just something that I had to do. But since talking to a whole lot of new friends that I have every they all say, Oh, gosh, you were really, really brave, Very courageous to do that sort of thing. Um, at at your age after being married for all that length of time. Uh, but courage was something that I really didn't think [00:14:00] about. Uh, it was just something that I had to do for my own sense of well being. For I thought I guess naively the, uh, well being of the family as well. And that if they knew what the situation was, then they couldn't be surprised or hurt, not really thinking that I would be hurting them. When I came out with a statement, I think that [00:14:30] people would say Yes, there was a deception. There was a lie. It was a convenient sham. But at the same time, I don't think I had any other choice when I reflect back. So selfish Yes, in so far as that look, I had to leave a marriage with two Children and, um, as as a liable parent. I think that I'm [00:15:00] doing penance for my for my newfound sexuality because I had to have had to pay a liable parent contribution. Uh, at the same time, if people might have thought about it as being selfish, Um, my Ex-wife and two daughters have been utterly accepting of my of my decision. Um, not necessarily. Immediately the the Children were far [00:15:30] too young to understand. They were preschoolers. Um, but in later life, yes, there is a complete acceptance, uh, from them and their mother about their father. Um, to the extent that I'm even welcome in their home any time, Well, I think that if I were, uh, totally honest about it, I have always wanted kids because I think part of coming to terms with my sexuality was a A a broad questioning of, um, of the whole purpose of life. And I think for [00:16:00] uh, many people, of course, Children, family, those traditional kinds of constructs give meaning to their lives, I guess. Um, subconsciously, I, I must have been aware that we're right to lead a gay lifestyle at some stage, uh, and to live in a same sex relationship as I now do that that the kids would give a foundation and a meaning which I might otherwise lack, and that has certainly turned out to be the case. And I would say that the kids are probably the most important thing in my life, and I pride [00:16:30] myself on being a very good father to them. The first public announcement, I guess if that's what you want to say, is at a a huge gay dinner, which was, um, put on by a gap, which is the Gay and professional association here in Wellington. And I was enjoying myself as I normally always do when I'm out and the suddenly came up and said, And now we have Peter. He has just come out and told his family, and he shoved the microphone [00:17:00] under my nose, being used to being up on stage and talking and running seminars and courses. Uh, it it still phased me a little, but I then just went ahead and told the whole congregation or the whole group rather not congregation that makes it sound like a church. They I told the whole group, and the reaction I got from people afterwards was that they came up and they sort of, you know, that gave me a hug or touched me on the shoulder and said, Hey, that was [00:17:30] really brilliant. You know, I've often thought about this, but I would actually never get married again. Be it to a man or a woman. I've been in a relationship now over eight years, and I have no wish to marry my partner. Um, I don't believe that we need a piece of paper to signify that we need to stay together as a couple for the rest of our lives. What we need to stay together as a couple [00:18:00] for the rest of our lives is our devotion and love for each other and the declaration of that on a constant and regular basis. And we certainly do do that. Marriage to me is irrelevant in in the sense of the communication of love and the expression of that I was married once, Um, the relationship side of things in terms of living and being and sharing it with somebody else is probably not too dissimilar [00:18:30] in terms of legal rights. However, I suppose if gay people were given the opportunity to to declare themselves in a relationship which had some legal recognition, and that doesn't necessarily involve a marriage as such then, um, that would provide certain safeguards, particularly for the the continuity, uh, of a relationship and the recognition of that relationship by other [00:19:00] people in the community. I should have been much more honest with the family very much earlier on. However, That's also offset by the fact that had I have done it like 20 years ago, when the family were very young, it would have been very difficult for my Children. Um, I'm just I'm not saying that I was a martyr to carry on within the situation. That's not it at all. But, um, I do know of a lot of families where [00:19:30] the parents have split up, and that is very, very hard on the Children. And I didn't want to put that on to my sons. Now that they're older, they weren't living at home anyway. They were independent. I felt that it was time that my time had come. If you like, I was no longer it. It was no longer necessary for me to be the parent. As such, I would much rather be in the situation that I currently am with my sons [00:20:00] in that whilst I I am and always will be Dad. We're actually friends. Well, I think the main thing that I have got out of this experience is that if I'd stayed in a marriage, I would never have had to learn the skills that I've had to learn in terms of looking after kids on my own. And, uh, I am now a far better father. Uh, because I look after the kids on my own, I'm a far better cook. Uh, I actually have to spend, uh, devoted time with the kids in a way which, frankly, being in a marriage, [00:20:30] uh, was quite easy to escape from because there was always, uh, someone else said to look after the kids. And, of course, when the kids are young, they do tend to gravitate gravitate towards the mother anyway, So for me, I have to say it's been incredibly fulfilling. I would actually say I'm a very good father. Um, and I feel that if anything ever happened, for example, to my, uh to the mother of my kids, I'd be able to bring up the kids quite competently on my own. And I feel therefore a far more, um, rounded, human being as a result of the experiences I have had, uh, since, [00:21:00] uh, leaving that marriage. The path that I took to become me, um, was fraught with, um Well, it certainly wasn't a straight road to bliss. Um, and nobody is whether they be gay or straight. But when I look back, I can think I can see that. Yeah, maybe I should have done it sooner, but I chose not to, [00:21:30] um, there was always an inner fear to to be sprung, I suppose, Um and it just didn't feel comfortable. Once I had come out, I there was just this humongous relief, uh, a sense of relaxation and comfort with oneself that was just, um, override any override. Anything else? Um, maybe I was a bit [00:22:00] later in finding it than others, but, um, I'm happy with my development as me. I don't regret what happened. The other thing is, is that I have two wonderful daughters whom I adore, and they adore me. And there's there's no, um, blame on their part toward me about the decision that I had to make. Uh, it [00:22:30] has been they have accepted the reality of it. Um, they don't live in close association with me. But when we are together, we have an amazing time. As I consider myself can only ever be a friend to them, although they insist on calling me dead.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags