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So I'm here with Maddie and Carol from, um, some representatives, I guess from Lilac Library. How did you both get involved in Lilac? Um, I got roped into it in 2004. Um, how did you get roped in? Uh, I was the the president at Uni Victoria, a support group for questions. Um, and, um, one of the women on the collective was wanting [00:00:30] to modify the membership rules for Lilac and asked me to come along and advocate on behalf of younger women. So that's how I got roped in. And you've been there ever since I've been there ever since. Um, I'm not entirely sure to be honest. Um, I sort of felt that I was doing a variety of of voluntary things, but nothing much for the lesbian community. So I thought I [00:01:00] could go and borrow a book and see what it was all about. And it coincided with the an a GM, and that was sort of volunteered to be on the collective, which was, I think, about 10 years ago. A friend of mine said I was involved when she came to Wellington, which was about 15 years ago, but I don't think that's true. I think it's probably about 10 years. And what's what is Lila? For people who don't know what lilac is? That's [00:01:30] a very good question. It's a colour, um, itself, um is is a resource centre, Um, essentially for lesbians. And, um, we have books, fiction, lots of detective stories. Needless to say, um, we have assortment of other, um, fiction books. There's quite a large nonfiction section, um, including, um, queer, [00:02:00] um, theory and, um, biographies and a whole whole raft of stuff and more recently, possibly to do with Maddie. And some of the other, uh, younger women whom I'm delighted to say have come in to join us. Um, we've got a lot more stuff like DVD S and such, like, modern technology things. Yeah, we We've got a really impressive um, VHS, You know, the old video tape section. But, um, we're building the DVD section as well. [00:02:30] Um, Alan was telling me that they came up with the name Lilac, and then they came up with the acronym. So what does it stand for? Lesbian information library and archive centre. Oh, so lilac should have, like, two a in it Oh, don't be. Don't cool. So how did it Who? Who started it? How did it all get started? About 1994. Um, [00:03:00] a couple of women called a meeting. Um, where it was, you know, they tried to get women who who might be interested in in doing work for the community, and, um, courtesy of lesbian radio and assorted other networks. Um, there was, um, a series of meetings and fundraisers and book collections and so on and so forth. Um, and by about the end of 94 it was [00:03:30] up and running. So they identified a need for lesbian resources or yeah, I mean, in in the nineties, there would be very few lesbian or at least recognised lesbian, um, literature in the public libraries and not a lot of it a available to purchase in books in New Zealand. And, um, Internet buying was nowhere near the state That it is now wouldn't have existed. It probably not. The Internet exist in [00:04:00] the early nineties. Yeah, I think it did. But, you know, but only for geeks. Really, like you had to know code and so on in order to to use it. So is Has that changed now? Is there more kind of lesbian resources or lesbian literature or whatever in the in the mainstream now or definitely there are. There are some in the in the public libraries. What you find is that it's actually hard to track down. So we found that it was the hut library. Took the label lesbian off a lot of the lesbian [00:04:30] content of their collection, so it was quite hard to find. But any good reason they couldn't spell it or, well, maybe they did just misspell it. Maybe, um, had a great deal to do with the reactionary, um, attitudes of the hut Council. Oh, lovely. Um, but the other thing is that public libraries, of course, Um, books that have a low turnover rate. So, um, especially one way, like it's [00:05:00] some books, books and the the library sales. Um, whereas Lila keeps everything and the low turnover stuff gets moved to storage shelves, but it's still there. Um, so we've got over 2000 articles in the in the collection, some of of disputable quality, but so what are some of the, um what would be some of the high turnover stuff at Lilac. [00:05:30] Yeah, uh, the the detective mystery section is massive because there's a high demand for it. And, um, what do they call it? Lesbian erotica. The short story section that gets quite high. Turnover. The magazines, Actually, because we get all the the diva curve and, um, a few other ones and those get quite well used. And the DV days, one of the high turnover it items as well, Like the word and so on. An increasing [00:06:00] number of the humour books are being, um, borrowed these days. Um, um, whole new generations of of women are discovering Alison Bechdel and sort of things, you know, And and so they go out pretty regularly as well. We've got, um, some some leaflets with best of lilac in different sections. So some of those high turnover things are sort of advertised in there as well. [00:06:30] Other people have found this interesting. You might too. So has the kind of traffic through lilac changed over the years that you have both been there? Yes. If you if you're talking about human traffic, um, it changes very regularly. We we seem to maintain a similar number of members, but the faces keep changing. So one of the [00:07:00] things that we've been looking at recently, um, is looking at ways to retain the members that we get as well as recruiting new ones. And you talked a little bit about, um, young people or young women coming on. Was it not young people before or what? What did it look like? Or the the, uh, not the membership. The the collective. Is it a collective? It was a collective. And we were, um not very young, shall [00:07:30] we say, putting it politely? Um, I could probably be the grandmother of most of the women on the collective now, So, you know, that's quite fascinating from my perspective. Not that I am. I hate listen to But, um, from my perspective, um, I am absolutely fascinated by the younger women who are coming through. Um, I think [00:08:00] they have an enormous amount to offer, and without them, we lilac would go under completely and utterly would become a non event. So is it mostly young women on the collective now, or is it a mixture or a mixture? So when when I first started in 2004, um, mhm am Amy Greenwood was was on the collective, and she she's only a few years older than me. Um, but apart from that, there was quite a large age gap. [00:08:30] And so that was why she'd asked me to come along to the A. GM. So when Lila started the the membership criteria were that you self identified as a lesbian. And what Amy asked me to come along and talk to was that younger women in particular were becoming less likely to identify as lesbian, even if you use the medical definition. And they were, um, so there were a whole lot of different ways that young women were identifying, so lilac was [00:09:00] alienating them in that regard and and as part of a lilac marketing strategy, um, it was proposed to change the the definition of for the membership. And how did that go? We had an interest in a GM, but Maddie and I are still friends. Oh, that's good. And there's no there's no bodies buried out back or anything. OK, [00:09:30] well, another question right on. There were, There were Yeah, it it was It was an interesting meeting. It was about two hours long from memory And there were a couple of collective members who resigned from the collective because of the membership change. Um, what were some of the different points of views without kind of going into kind of personal stuff? What were some of the different points of views around? Kind of naming and labels and identification? Well, I'll I'll speak [00:10:00] from my perspective, um, having having been a lesbian all my life. Um, and having been out for I don't know so long long time, Um, I can't see what the problem is. You know, stand up, be proud. And if you're a lesbian, then call yourself a lesbian. I don't understand what the problem is that, um, apparently younger women have with with doing that sort of thing. [00:10:30] Mm. Um, I think it's it's It's also reflective of of wider society, like a lot of the young women that I talked to. Um, some of them didn't like the word lesbian. Um, because if you play a word association game with them and this applies to wider society as well, there's a lot of negative labels that go along with with lesbian. But there were also a lot of women who were, um, [00:11:00] not only attracted to women who wanted to be part of the library, so that's always been a, uh, an issue for the library and and for the the collective and the members. But I think it was also, um, like the These young women didn't understand why the older generation wanted to identify so strongly as as lesbian. Um, [00:11:30] and so having those sort of intergenerational conversations was really useful. But the, um yeah, the older woman not understanding why the young woman didn't want to have this label? Um, yeah, it was the same kind of thinking for the two groups. So is this still a point of contention now, or how does the how does the criteria of Lila sit Now? Um, it it's been changed [00:12:00] to any woman who has a non heterosexual personal identity and whose primary relationships are with women and who supports aspects of the society shall subject to payment of any membership fee. Be a member of the society on her name, being entered into the society's membership register. Wow, that's quite different from lesbian. Yeah. Um, true. I love those really long things that are about six lines. What [00:12:30] It means I don't know that anybody understands to be honest, but it seems to cover all possibilities, including some we didn't intend and have subsequently knocked on the head. Yes. So where is Lila or where has it been? Uh, it's mostly been in and around the terrace. Um, excuse me. We had, um, one particular room that, um whilst we were very grateful to be able to have a home of some description, um, [00:13:00] its location and its whole, um, set up was was really not not conducive to, um to anybody wanting to be there, to be perfectly honest, but we didn't have anywhere else, and and we were grateful to be able to use it. We moved, um, into the, um, back, um, hall area of Saint Andrews on the terrace, which was very helpful. Um, and we had a reasonable amount [00:13:30] of space there, and the rent was, um, was also, um, pretty cheap. Um, and we are exceptionally grateful to the, um, Armstrong and Arthur Trust which gives us or it has given us, um, the the grants to pay the rent. Um, without very much warning at all. Saint Andrews said they were closing down all of that area of the hall for their renovations, and we had literally weeks [00:14:00] to find somewhere else to go. And, um, after some fiish frantic rushing around, um, we've now got some a really nice space upstairs in the, um, Buddhist centre on, um, Cambridge Terrace. Oh, I do know where that is. Yeah, number 64 Cambridge Terrace is on the corner there. It's such a lovely space, like it gets natural light, whereas in in [00:14:30] Saint Andrews, it was always dark and cold. Um, I mean, absolutely grateful to them. It's just, you know, different building different materials. It's a different feel to the to the room. And it it opens up the possibility of us using the space for other things as well, like movie nights and book groups and so on, which is really, really exciting for the library. So if you had a few of those events since moving premises or, uh, no, pending pending pending in the pipeline, we did a, um, a membership [00:15:00] survey, um, asking all the current members and then all the other women that we could rope into it as well that, um, asking them what they'd like to see at the library. And, um, I think that the top thing that they chosen in terms of other events was fascinating lesbian speakers. So now we've got to find some fascinating lesbian speakers. That'll be interesting. Um, as a consequence of the of the survey, um, we're looking to, um, set up, [00:15:30] uh, a book club we're looking to do as a fundraiser. Probably. Uh, just a one off. Um, quiz night. Um, we're certainly looking at the, um, lesbians, fascinating lesbian speakers. Um, and we're lining up a few women. Not all of them know this yet, but you know, we'll get to them shortly. Wow. Cool. Yeah, it is. And it's really nice to be able to respond. You know, survey monkey makes [00:16:00] it easy for for groups like us to cheaply get feedback from members in an anonymous way and and respond to that. What do you both really enjoy about being part of what do you guys get out of it? First dibs on all the books and DVD S. That's not strictly true. That's not Ellen gets first on the book and DVD S because she does the cataloguing the rest of us. Not so much. Um, the the library is a a bit [00:16:30] of a 1st 1st point of contact for a lot of women that moved to Wellington. So we've got a notice, board and stuff as well. But I really enjoy meeting the new people coming in or new people coming out and like introducing them to different parts of the community and so on and helping them to find their feet. Yeah. I. I would agree with me on that. Um, it's it's really interesting [00:17:00] to see how many of us there are out there. You know, I've been as I've said before, I've been around for a while now, and I know lots of lots of dikes, but I keep meeting a whole new lot just about every week. It's amazing. It's great. Yeah. So is it quite a Is it a fair bit of work, like obviously enjoy? It is not really. I mean, basically, we're talking [00:17:30] about one meeting a month. We're talking 11 evening on a Wednesday or, um, a Saturday lunch time. Um, to do duty, there's very little else that you need to do. I mean, if you can get out and do some recruiting and promotion. You know that's a different issue. But basic two things a month is hardly owners. So those are opening hours, Wednesdays and Saturdays. Wednesday [00:18:00] we've just changed as a result of the membership survey. We're now open on Wednesday, 5. 30 till 7 30 which is just slightly later and then open longer on a Saturday. So 11 o'clock till 2 p.m. but as a direct response to the to the survey, which we're trialling through till Christmas and then we'll see how it goes. So lilac serves, I guess, an important kind of space for lesbian resources as well as kind of the protocol and new people [00:18:30] coming out as well as new to New Zealand. Does it? What other purpose does it serve? Can you think of any? Or is it kind of those that's main two pivots? I think those are probably the the 22 major, um, areas. But the fact that we've got a website and we have, um um a Facebook page and we're with Twitter and so on and so forth has actually in given us indications that people from actually [00:19:00] women of or who knows, But probably women around the world are actually, um, clicking onto the website and having a look as well. So you know, if if if there are some some lesbians who are maybe thinking of travelling to New Zealand, this gives them, um a start that well, at least we're alive and well here. Yeah, because there's been all that stuff about, um Oh, there's all the Internet and print will print will become defunct And what not? And that's not what you found. No, not at all. [00:19:30] I mean, the thought of of, of getting some of those books in in digital format is is hideous enough. Why? Because they're hideous. Well, the books are some some of that. What are some of the ones that we get donated? Every year we have a We have a sale every year. Fundraising at the The game has been fair. And there's always there's some books. Rotary spokes. Are they real funny? Books that get donated or yeah, So those those books are out [00:20:00] out of out of print. They're probably not going to be made digital. Um, but also, who wants to read a book on a computer screen. I mean, yes, yes, there are some people moving to it, but I stare at a computer screen all day. I don't want to go to bed and read a computer screen. Exactly. I agree. Yeah, and I guess there's also, um when I was in kind of queer youth work heaps and heaps of GL BT I stuff. Well, it's often bar focused, so it's really nice to, I guess, have a forum or a space that you can go [00:20:30] isn't just around booze, alcohol as much as booze. No, but I mean it. It is a compounding thing. There's such a problem with alcohol in the in the community, and then we have all our social events based around it. So for anyone who is struggling, they've got to make a choice to either not engage with it or to, you know, run the risk of falling off the wagon. So with all your new fan dangled face pages and twitters and Internet, are there still [00:21:00] some challenges that Lila faces over into the future? Or you're happily plodding along nicely or, um, funding is an issue like we're not self sufficient. We're reliant on donations and and, um, the support of the Armstrong Now for charitable trust for lesbians. Um, and if if we didn't have that, we would be on a certain lake without a certain implement. Um, [00:21:30] so that's that's a big challenge for us. And the retaining existing members, as well as recruiting new members, is sort of part part of the the puzzle or key part of the puzzle towards self sufficiency. Membership wise, number wise. What are we looking at? It it's it's floating around 60. But, um, as as we said, we're now making more of an effort to start retaining existing members because [00:22:00] that's been that's those 60 members have been 60 members of, of hundreds and hundreds of women. Um, so if we were able to, if they were all signed up or even all the ones that were still in Wellington Yeah, all those slackers. One of the things that we're just trying at the moment, and we have no idea how it will work. But we are in [00:22:30] the interests of trying to serve the community. We're giving it a go is a postal, um, ability. Um, there's a a woman in the who doesn't get to Wellington, but she has access to the Internet, so she can see from our catalogues the resources that we have there. And so, um, we have recently come to an agreement, and again, it's it's a trial to see how it works that, [00:23:00] um, she'll provide, um, a courier bag for, um for and and the list of the books that she wants. And we'll put them in the books and send them off, and then she sends them back, and so on. We we've only just started this, but, um and I don't think that we would be looking to go to into it on a major scale. We simply don't have the people, um, to cope with it. But, um, you know, for a few people who few women who, [00:23:30] um, can't get into Wellington But, you know are feeling pretty lonesome out there. Um, in terms of reading about themselves, um, this could be a possibility. How would I find? Would I just google it? Would it just turn up? Not just a colour. Um, yeah, I've I've been googling it to change, to change our our address and our hours and so on. Um, I've just [00:24:00] done a massive Google search for the for the library. So if you search Lila library or lesbian library, you'll find it in the in the top of your search. Even if even if you're searching internationally for um, yeah, uh, and the actual, um, the actual website is HTTP colon forward slash forward slash lilac LIL AC dot lesbian [00:24:30] dot net dot NZ. Please note we don't have the WWW bit in there, so you know that's that's the that will that will get you directly to the, um to the Lilac Web website and access to the catalogue and the hours and the address and any any news. Or you can just pop in when it's open. And is there kind of a little reading space or you stand around and browse or we've got We've got comfy chairs and a little coffee [00:25:00] table that's got a jar with biscuits on it. Oh, yeah, yeah, and and we offer tea and coffee because the the Buddha Centre has got a little kitchen that we all share. So and is there a librarian that will say no, we we tend to engage in conversation if they want to And if they don't, we just shut up and let them go on with it. Although there are there are a few librarians on the the collective. Maybe they would [00:25:30] shush you. No, no, no, no. They're not that sort of librarian. These are good, good lesbian librarians. Yeah. Hey, thank you very much. Both of you, for your time and for, um, talking to us about Lina. Thank you, Hannah. Happy to thank you.
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