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So I'm at the, um, Rainbow Youth offices in Auckland with Kiera. Hi, Kiera. Um, so you live in Auckland And you grew up in Auckland? Yes, I was. I was born in Idaho as Matthew David Smith, Um, as male. Um, now I'm a 17 year old trans [00:00:30] female trans woman. MTF came out two years ago, um, started using star last year. Um, got my name changed a few weeks ago, and [00:01:00] yeah, that, too. And did you pick the name? Carry yourself, or do you already have that or a I picked up myself. I just saw it one day when I when I was growing up, when I was about eight or nine reading this book and the main character was called Carry, which is, um, [00:01:30] change of money, Uh, anagram of money and Yeah, cool. And was it a really big decision for you to transition? Well, there wasn't a decision, really? For me transitioning it was the fact that that from a very young age I was a girl and [00:02:00] I was born boy. So it was so it. Well, the fact of transitioning I was telling everyone. Yeah, So you've always known that you're a girl. And what did you say to people when they told you you're a boy? Um, basically, when I was younger, my parents kind of dismissed it and just thought it was me doing normal stuff. Not normal, but [00:02:30] kind of made your skin around. And they didn't realise how serious it was till I I dropped the subject from about 10 to 15 and just went to Dolworth, which is an all boys school, not telling them. And then, yeah, just for my 16th birthday, I told them. And what was their reaction like? [00:03:00] Well, Mom took it and was a few minutes of silence. But Mum took it pretty well. That, on the other hand, was a bit disappointed, and he was blaming himself and everything. And the fact is that we didn't have a strong relationship, So he thought that was to blame. And [00:03:30] and then then he was like Then he went into the denial phase of it and took about two or three months. But he came around and he's supportive of me now. And did you talk while he was kind of coming around or you just kind of give him some space or I. I I encouraged him a bit, but I only [00:04:00] I basically left him to it. But just giving him the odd nudge here and there and just putting hints. So when I was talking about myself, I was used. He or she I mean, I'd use she instead of he because, and just to reiterate it, Like when? When he when I talk to him, I referred to myself as his daughter and stuff [00:04:30] just subtle hands. And your mum was sweet as pretty much from the get go had she kind of, I guess, always known. I guess if you've always known And she she knew something wasn't wrong. But she didn't know what. She had no idea of what was different about me, but she knew I wasn't like my brothers. How [00:05:00] many brothers do you have? I've got 21 older and one younger. And and they both have autism as well. And I've got a tiny bit of it that as much as him, my little brothers, non verbal and your older brother Did you tell him when you told your mum and dad I I told him [00:05:30] when I saw him next went to, like, a couple of weeks after the after me telling him. I mean, after me. Tell my mom, I actually I told my mom first when my dad, Because they don't live together. Yeah. Separated. Yeah. And your brother was good. Did he say anything? Was he? No, he was [00:06:00] it again. Took just him getting used to the fact it wasn't more of a resistance. It was him. Just so used to known me as he and Matthew and his brother. But it just took a while for it to click in. But after that, no, we had it all. And what was going on for you when you were [00:06:30] 16? That made you You like, right? I'll say something to Mum and Dad. Well, I was finding, going to deal with boys boarding school. Just got to the point where I can't deal with it anymore. That I I was I was really low at the time. But then I just silent, right? [00:07:00] I live it long enough. And if they don't believe me now, they're never going to believe me. Kind of. And they turned to And did you tell anyone at school or was it. You decided you wanna see you later, or everyone at school knows now. But at the time, you you're not at the same school. I dropped out of school [00:07:30] because I last year I tried to go back to school, but they weren't so helpful with with the fact that my my legal name was still Matthew. And they and they weren't willing for me to be in female clothing because I was year 12, and they don't want to stir [00:08:00] up a reaction for just a year. And then me going to musty kind of. But that didn't sit well with me, so I tried to go deal with school. Then they don't work out. So then, in June, I tried to do, um, correspondence school bars too far behind in the so I [00:08:30] So I had to give up that. So someone was telling me. Do you also do karate? Yes. Have you always done karate? I started in 2007. When I was still at I was I was finding it hard, and Mom thought because I was having a hard time that [00:09:00] karate would be a good escape for me because I wasn't too good with team sports with and that got me kept me active. And it gave an excuse for me to go out and see and stay home on Wednesday nights, do karate and then train back in on Thursday mornings. Yeah, and do you still do karate now? [00:09:30] Or I have taken a break from it. But yes, I still do karate and you compete in that kind of thing Or is it more just of a training thing for you? I? I train and I have competed, but only which is noncontact, and I'm not allowed to do the chem, which is meant to be still non contact. But But [00:10:00] there's a risk of contact and they raise us and yeah, yeah, So do you enjoy competing or is it just It's fun, but you're taking a break or I enjoy competing and training and everything, but But I'm not. I'm much better at, and I enjoy more than I do, kind of well, at a competitive stage in tournament. [00:10:30] I came fifth in my World Cup in the World Cup. That's pretty green to red bats. And I was green And the male divisions, yeah, and so was the world, um comps here? Or did you have to go abroad to to go to Brisbane? I mean, Melbourne to compete. [00:11:00] It was Melbourne it 2009. August. Yeah, and I went with my mom as well and she competes. She competes as well. Cool. And does she get any prizes or No, no, it's very just you. I don't get price for game fifth. It's just what I got. Yeah, [00:11:30] Mum got fourth and her commit, but And hers was a substantially bigger division. She had 30 in hers, and I had just over 15 or 16. And you're saying that you've got a little bit of autism? How does that affect you? And if it makes me have been transgendered [00:12:00] and the process that much harder But but it just means that I have to change my thinking and my insight to on how I see things and to put them into, uh into something that my my brain can understand. My brain sees more black and white than the grey. So I'm just [00:12:30] I just change what I see into something that's more black and white and more and more definitive, like for transitioning. You never know when it's it's a process, so and there's no set time for that. But then I say, Well, I'm going to do this today, Tomorrow [00:13:00] I'm going to do that and just do little little increments like that. So you've had to kind of learn about how to or you've kind of had to sort out for yourself, I guess how to how to be transfer for yourself. Have you had to kind of teach other people about that as well? A lot of people have to teach. So what do they ask you or what do they? What do you say to them? I just tell them what they need to know in the best way I can My [00:13:30] interpretation of everything. Yeah, and do do you Do you find that lots of people understand autism or understand what that's all about? Or is it again something that you have to educate people about? People have a lot more about autism than they do about transgender, and people don't question my autism, [00:14:00] but they question you being trans well, they don't question me, but then they as such as you're not female or stuff but It's like, How can you see yourself as transgender because you were born a boy? Then for you should be a boy for the rest of your life kind of thing. Have you found that that's the attitude [00:14:30] that, um, lots of other people in the queer community have? Or is it people outside of that? It's usually the straight community or the other April that that take offence to me and that particularly parents of Children are wary of me now, Hm? Is it a bit tricky [00:15:00] or what? Does that feel like? I just shrug it off, and that's that's their problem, that they find a fence with me. It's not my fault. I'm just being me. And how did you come into contact with Rainbow Youth or any of the groups? Um, I'm both psychiatrist and a psychologist at [00:15:30] said something about about Rambo youth and told me about Tommy and then came here and talked to Tommy about it. And he explained a lot to me about stuff that I can't comprehend at the time, because [00:16:00] the trans in by the specialists that were seeing me for it had could wasn't too. He'd never had someone before. He only had the guidance of his colleague of a colleague. Time to see it. But he was new to it, so he couldn't give [00:16:30] me exact exact information. But Tommy took talked me through it. So is it kind of lots of practical things, Or did you have quite a few questions or it? It was more that the process was and is no length, no certain length of time. It's not like in a years time you go on hormones and [00:17:00] all that, but it's everyone at their own pace. Then I've got some more. And did you Were you really keen to meet other Trans women or other Trans people after meeting Tommy? Or had Did you already know lots of trans people before that? Uh, I knew a couple, but I didn't know too many. I came along to, um, to the transgender group [00:17:30] they have at Rainbow Youth called, which was once called Gender Quest, which is now GIQ, or gender identity quest. And from there I met a lot of Trans people. I didn't intentionally go out to seek trans people, but then just happened to be that just happened to meet lots of new people and they just happened [00:18:00] to be trained. Was it really nice meeting them or you just a bit or whatever? It was nice to see. See some people that were more ahead in the process in me and that they could talk me through it because a lot of people, most of the information about the trans community is still held with trans people, not [00:18:30] the so called experts that we have to go to. We There's a lot of educating that we have to do of them. Are they getting it getting any better, or is it still pretty, pretty backwards and annoying? Wow. Wow, It's whoever you meet, whichever doctor you meet. So lucky dip. Yeah, and if if you don't give doctor that that [00:19:00] that or whoever, that hasn't, um that was trend before, um, you you just teach them and help them understand it. And I don't see it as much of a problem because that means that's one person. If another trans person comes along and needs a doctor, well, I know [00:19:30] that person's being taught, thought taught and knows at least one person that's been trained, so right, so that was do you find that being a trans woman? Lots of people, either queer or straight, get being trans like Get gender. [00:20:00] Really mixed up with sexual orientation? Yes, and and even on forms at some time. It's very up. But I guess it's because society doesn't doesn't really grasp the difference between gender and sex, gender being what you choose to be [00:20:30] or what's up in your head And sex is what you've been born as. Yeah, and so do they assume, I guess, you know, do lots of straight people or anyone, Really, I guess. Do they assume that because you're a woman, you're gonna like men? Or is there that kind of stuff that goes on or not? So it's quite quite often thought that but But [00:21:00] I That's not what for me. That's not what All right, see you and I just tell everyone I just tell everyone who asks, because a lot of straight people ask me or queer people as well. But ask just so are you straight or what do you see yourself [00:21:30] as? But I have heard of, um, if you have a partner of a trans person, gets even more ridicule than the actual trans person. Quite often, it usually happens to the Trans person but the like. If I found a girlfriend, she'd be she'd [00:22:00] have to come and if she was serious, had to come to my psychiatry to all my, um, assessment for when they get signed off for surgery and stuff. And then they have to Do they spend longer on questioning the partner, then the Oh, really? Well, what do you think that is? What's that about? [00:22:30] Well, just because they have to live with it, probably. Hm. And have you experienced a lot of transphobia? Yes, I have. But it's but I feel more people. It's them assuming that maybe I'm gay and then a gay male [00:23:00] dressing as they wear feminine clothing that they assume that, um, they assume that. And then they say, And then they are more homophobic, being homophobic. And so there's quite a lot of crossover with homophobia and transphobia. So is it mostly assumptions, Or [00:23:30] have you ever been worried about your safety? Or is it mostly just the everyday where you're down kind of stuff? It's more of that, Yeah, because and I know that if I If if someone ever came at me, I could I could hold my ground so I don't feel lack of safety. There's certain things that I won't do. But that's [00:24:00] but that's what most people. It's more that I won't do it, because I I because my that most people won't do, like, walk around the streets anyways, at two in the morning, with no one knowing where you are and with no one with you being alone, kind of [00:24:30] that kind of thing, I wouldn't do. But I don't I don't feel because I'm trying them under any extra, um, attacks or people. My safety doesn't feel any more breached than if I wasn't Trans. Hm? And do you still go along to GIQ? Yeah, I do. I've [00:25:00] been going for it for over a year. And do you do other other community stuff or other queer trans community stuff? Or is it mainly just I go to the gay group on the generation, or GQ group that meets every second Friday here. What? Which is good? It's for under [00:25:30] 18 S that are queer, a gay and lesbian bisexual. Questioning any anyone can just come and be in a safe place and meet. And what are your plans for? I guess you know, the next few months or the rest of the year, or just [00:26:00] just carry on my my transition and and then I'm sorry. Keep up my karate and keep training and and go to my foundation course and get my get what I need so I can do a, um, nursing certificate. Hm? Get into nursing. Have you always [00:26:30] wanted to do nursing? I've always wanted to be in medicine, but my choices are limited now because I left school and need NC level credits for the to get into med school and to gain to pre med. But and it seems that there's no place apart from school which could can get can [00:27:00] get you there, but that no scenes nursing as available to me. So I would do that. What would you like to see? Change in schools? I guess you know not not just your old school, but schools in general, Um, getting rid of, um, in single sex schools because [00:27:30] that was a big thing for me because I went to a single sex school. So the only thing you can be there is male, so so. But if it was coed, it would might have mean I could have stayed at door and and being able to make a unisex [00:28:00] uniform if if they won't allow you to wear the opposite gender uniform, I said Bye UN option. And what about wider in society? What are some changes that you'd like to see it go through? Just more education of people? And also, it's [00:28:30] ironic how they say Trans I've got gender dysphoria is a severe severe mental illness, They call it, but but yet it takes cosmetic surgery to change it. So I don't know of too many other things that can be cured up with cosmetic surgery. [00:29:00] So is it your Do you feel like it shouldn't be in there? Or is it just quite an odd thing that's in there? It's It's just how, um labelled it. They've labelled it as something real big, and yet, but then it's cosmetic surgery because and you can't get You have to pay for the surgery yourself because it's not insured. But then you have to [00:29:30] go through this whole process of getting because it's a bit. It's a massive surgery. Then you have to go through so much to to get it. Have to have people sign you off and make sure you're stable. And hence what would you say to parents who, I guess, suspect [00:30:00] that their child is trans or even just I guess if you have a friend and you, do you think that they might be Trans What? What are some advices or good things to do to support them? Well, just put them into normal. Until that even if you know that they're trans, if they're not ready to come out, they won't come out. And so just use if it's a he form [00:30:30] an MTF, use he. And when they're ready to for you to start using, she you see, and just be more open to, um the the fact the fact of transgender and be accepting of it. So do you get quite a lot, I guess, out of being involved in trans [00:31:00] or queer communities. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of support out there, and I was really useful for you. If it wasn't for the for the support, it would be really hard because going through the transition, you need someone there if it's family or a partner, or just people from [00:31:30] the queer community supporting you and being able to tell you that you're doing a good job and being able to keep you on track because it's not really the transition, it's hard. It's more of when you start to get wobbles in life. That's when it kicks in. And then that came down. And then it just accelerates the spiral. [00:32:00] Why do you think that people who aren't trans or straight people or whatever or anyone who has a problem with it Why do you think people find it really difficult to come to terms with it? What do you think that it is that probably it's because they've never been exposed to it or they don't believe it happens and basically either ignorance or or them unknowing [00:32:30] on them or they're not wanting to accept it? And do you have any last words of kind of advice or support for any other young trans people coming to terms and accepting who they are? MM, take it at your own pace. That's there. This thing there's no set [00:33:00] of rules that you have to follow no criteria that you have to match up to you can just be yourself and take out your own pace and everyone's different. Cool, Thanks, Heaps kra.
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