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So I'm here with Kerry. Did you go from Wellington? No. In North Canterbury Waak Beach, which is a tiny little town, maybe a half hour drive north of Christchurch. And so what are the stereotypes about Christchurch and around North Canterbury and growing up there? Um well, I suppose when people hear that you're from a, um, a small town, they assume that you've, um uh that you've experienced [00:00:30] a lot of homophobia, and I suppose I did to a point. Um, but because I wasn't, um because I wasn't out. Then I, uh um I avoided a lot of that. In fact, my the, um the most, um disturbing. Um uh, Well, um, my experience, my most intense experience of homophobia, was in Wellington when, um, a friend of mine was beaten up, [00:01:00] so Yeah, and I guess that was because I was, um we were we were in a group that were out and proud, and so we're a target, whereas in or in And, um, I was desperately trying to go under the radar. Yeah. So did you come out once you left north Canterbury, or, um, coming to Wellington for me was, um, go, uh definitely [00:01:30] leading up to it. I was I had envisioned, um, that Wellington was a place I was going to come to and sort of find myself and come out. Um, and I would discover my community or my people. And, um so with, um, with that in mind, I, um I sort of knew that I was coming to Wellington to come out. And, um, yeah, when you were growing up in North Canterbury, did you know that you were queer or gay? Or how [00:02:00] do you identify I? I identify as gay? Um, I definitely I had come out to, um maybe, um, in my sixth form year to one friend and then, um, the at the end of that year, another friend and then I paced a sort of friend at a time. So, um, quite a few of my friends knew, but, um, I hadn't had a conversation with my family or, um yeah, [00:02:30] about it until I moved to Wellington. And then I lived with my uncle for, um for about half a year. And that's when I came out, I guess. And were your friends reactions? Good. Um, what were some of the responses my, my, um my first friend that I came out to she, um And this is this goes for a lot of my friends, actually. And my parents, um, my mom especially made [00:03:00] it very clear whenever, um, a queer related news item came on the radio or the television. Um, she would, um, make her, um, opinion very clear in support of it, I think for my benefit, Um, try to open up a conversation. Um, though I never pounced on the opportunity. And, um, my friend Holly who I was it helpful. Um, even though you kind of never pounced, was it good to kind of know what [00:03:30] her opinions were? Or were you, like, weird? Um, it it was good. My mom's interesting because I always knew that it was never going to be an issue with her like, um, but maybe she was one of the most difficult people to come out to, in a way, because II, I I'm very close with her, I suppose, Um, having that conversation with her would for me was finally addressing it fully for myself as well. [00:04:00] So, um, in that way, it was difficult, but, um, it there was no doubt in my mind that she would, um, that, you know, she was going to I. I knew she wasn't going to discard me or feel any differently about me or anything like that. Yeah, And you're the first friend you came out to. Um, she said the same thing. We never like. Um, she would always, uh, um start conversations about queer stuff. And, um, [00:04:30] and try try to bait me, I guess. But, um, it took it took, uh, quite a traumatic experience for me with a, um I suppose a boyfriend, Um, where I was really, really in need of support. Um, uh, yeah, it took that for me to, um, talk to her about it, and we went, um, we were always her and I were always bunking classes, and we went to the end of the sports field and sat behind this ruined, [00:05:00] um, wall and, uh, and, like, I held hands. And, like everyone has a similar story, I guess. Um, and, um, Polly, um, Holly and Polly, my two friends I first came out with, um, in a similar circumstance, She, um she realised I was really upset about something and um needed and wanted to talk to me about [00:05:30] it. And so, um, I invited her over and had another really, um, pain to, like, lead up to, like, talking to her about it. I think I said, um, Polly, is there anything that I could, um, say to you that would make you like me less or make you hate me and which I suppose is what I was most paranoid about? Um and she said, if, um, if you said something mean about my dad, [00:06:00] and I was like, Well, it's not I'm not going to do that. But I'm gay. And she Yeah, she, um Poly is a really wonderful friend because she's, um so Earnest and, um, straight up and I. I knew I could, um, on her to, uh um, to not, you know, not tell anyone. And the same with Holly. I, um I chose my friends, um, [00:06:30] who I could really, really trust in initially. And then, um, once, I, um, was more confident with it. I, um I was a bit more frivolous with who I told him. So you first came out to your first person, I guess, um, in sixth form. Did you know before then? Yeah, It's interesting, because I'm I'm sure. Um yeah, It's, um I have trouble in, um, [00:07:00] picturing or remembering when I when I first sort of knew. But I know that, um, I do remember when I was very young, um, telling my mom I wish I was a girl, so I could wear pink pyjamas and and being, like, utterly obsessed with mermaids. Um, but then I Then it sort of I don't know. Um I think, uh, I can remember thinking. I, um I can remember driving back from Christchurch one [00:07:30] evening and and having heard some statistic about, you know, one in 10 men are gay, And I remember thinking it would just be my luck that I was that 1 10 guys. And but but almost like, um, almost thinking that it would, you know, like it just seems so, um, so unrealistic that that would even happen to me, like I can. Um, yeah. And then, [00:08:00] um then I guess when puberty hit, it was pretty a pretty hormonal time. So I was, um um I was having, um, fantasies about, um, women and men. And then once, um I. I don't know. Once my hormone settled, it was definitely, um I definitely knew that I. I sort of tricked myself. Um, initially I was like, Right. I think I'm, um, some kind of bisexual, but I, um And maybe I'll experiment [00:08:30] with men, but I'm definitely like I want I want a family. Um, ya ya ya. So I'm definitely with a woman, but as, um as I, I guess I was just easing myself into, um, you know, I, I totally identify as gay. Yeah. Although, um, my, um, in my family, um uh, an auntie, for instance, identified as lesbian and then, um, flipped. So [00:09:00] did, apparently quite a few members of my family. So, um, who knows? There's a potential that you might have to come out to everybody. Uh, my, um when I came up to my grandma, she, um, was really, really cute. She said to me that she had had passions for women as well. Yeah, that was actually a really lovely conversation to have, because she, um, initiated [00:09:30] it. And, um, so, um, I was like, uh, she came into my room and I was asleep, and she sat on my bed. And I knew something. I knew she wanted to talk about something because she was, um she didn't pretend to be asleep. No, I was pretty groggy, though, Like, um, she I can't remember how she, um, spearheaded the conversation, but we were talking about it, and she just said that she wanted me to make sure that I knew what I wanted. And, um, [00:10:00] that, uh I think probably she was really concerned that I I would have a hard life. Um, as a gay person. Probably. Um, from what she experienced growing up. But then, yeah. Then she said that, um, she she loved me no matter what and that she had passion for women that she gave me $20. And, um, yeah, it was really sweet. She cried a little bit and then gave me the $20 [00:10:30] was like coming out to everyone was as lucrative as, you know, if you got 20 bucks to everybody who came out, it would be great. Yeah. So you moved to Wellington, Kind of. Was it a bit like gay mecca or queer me or something? And what did you find when you got here? Community wise or people wise. Well, I, um, as I said, I, I wanted to be, um, I. I guess [00:11:00] it was sort of a metamorphosis. I wanted to be, um, gay from the get go and which I suppose is unrealistic. Um, in some ways, and, uh, I decided I wanted to dress differently. II, I think, um, II I just jumped really wholeheartedly into it. I was wearing eyeliner. And what did you wear like or something? I. I don't know. I like, um my My dad's a bit of, um you know, like, flat shirts, [00:11:30] like we're a hunting family, like Oh, yeah. So you trade your flannel shirt in for some eyeliner. Bright colours. I think this t-shirt that I'm wearing right now is one of the first things I bought. And I bought this, um, purple jersey, Um, and but that that actually that, um, item that I sort of, um, for me, represented by coming out with this, um, bright pink hoodie [00:12:00] with stars all over it, and, um, I like I was just in love with it. I was like, This is symbolic of my metamorphosis. Did you feel like a mermaid? Maybe not a mermaid. So, um yeah, maybe a little bit like a anyway, um, this that I met a gay guy at Massey where I was studying, Um, and he invited me to a party, and I knew it was going to be a gay [00:12:30] party and there were going to be gay people there. And, um, I knew I was going to win my But I was really excited. And I went. I took a friend with me to this party wearing the hoodie, and I was I sort of, like, walked in with my friend who was a girl, And we were I was just sort of hovering and really in awe of everything. And then this person, this guy came up to me and, um said, Oh, God, he said to me, Were you a birthday [00:13:00] cake in another life? And he like, he was like, he snarled, It was so horrible, like, and I was like, What do you mean? And like, he just sort of looked at me and I was like, my hoodie and he just sort of like, rolled his eyes and walked away from me, and that was really, really disappointing. I sort of like, um, uh, it was a bit of a crisis point for me, because I I was expecting this community and my people, and it's exactly Yeah, that was quite traumatising [00:13:30] and I. I didn't I? Then I sort of, um I, um I made friends with, um, queer friendly people and and my studies, but not, um, gay people. And I spent maybe a year in that sort of community of people the theatre to, um, sort of before I, um, uh, even really properly started going to gay bars and making gay friends and, [00:14:00] um yeah, I. I suppose eventually I did find my people, but it wasn't as, um it wasn't as instantaneous as I thought it would be arriving in Wellington. Yeah. So how do you feel about your people now, or the community or communities now in Wellington? Um, I'm, um I'm really, uh, privileged in that. I'm I'm surrounded by a really incredible, [00:14:30] um, incredible, uh, strong, passionate, queer, queer people. And actually, there's just so much variety like, um, there's so much to celebrate within our community, and I think it's a wonderful Yeah. So do you think that if, um, if a young man from north can turned up at one of the parties or gay parties you were at. Do you think they get hassled about wearing a bright pink [00:15:00] hoodie on potentially? Um, I, uh I actually I. I don't know if I'm friends with any of the people that I met at that party. Or, um, with that person in particular. I, I can't actually remember who it was. Um, I think like any, um, any circle of people or any, um, sphere you go into you're gonna, um, not click with people, um, and probably experience hostility [00:15:30] for, like, for a million reasons. Um, maybe he had a traumatic experience with the colour pink. Totally. Yeah. Totally. And I think, um, maybe, um, because it was, uh, so flamboyantly gay. Maybe he had an issue with it. Um, which I know, Um, people do, Um, which I maybe stems from, um, insecurities. Uh, which [00:16:00] is, um, I guess maybe just a place where, um uh we are at as a society, which is, um, not very nice, but I'm I'm sure, like I you know this all working through it. This is what I'm trying to say. Can you talk a little bit more about gay stereotypes and how that does it impact on you, or you? Um, it's kind of out there, you know, it exists, but it it impacts me and that I get really upset when, um [00:16:30] when, um a particular stereotype or I guess, or, um is targeted with hostility. Um, I that that really bugs me. I don't know. Like, um, uh, um, there's just a lot of negative. Um, maybe there's not a lot, but you definitely hear negative talk about maybe, um, drag queens or, um uh, sometimes people I don't know if it's, um, meant to be in good humour, [00:17:00] but chuck around, um, not very nice thing about drag queens or lesbians or, um, maybe even, uh, the party boy sort of look. But I think, um, uh, you know, there's, um, some scorn around that I i What I think is that, um, with, uh, with, um, drag queens and with, um, people that are really outwardly queer that, um, [00:17:30] I really super admire that because, um, they it takes a lot of courage to be visible. And and it's those people that are gonna have be be targeted with, um, with homophobia and with hostility. And it it it's Yeah, it just takes a lot of courage to be visible, I think. And it's by doing that. They're serving like our entire community. And I really admire that. [00:18:00] Um, yeah. And I think it's just such a shame that when you see on maybe Internet forums or, um aye, anywhere. Really? Um, when within our community, there's there's hate speak. Yeah. Where do you think that comes from? Um, maybe it's that I know that I really struggled with a sense of identity, Um, growing up. And so, um, maybe [00:18:30] when people, um, finally, um, have the the, um, the courage to be who they are. They, um, see that as, um, a really narrow um uh, what's the word? Um, if you don't fit a certain, um, fit in a certain category or you draw attention to yourself or, um, whatever, um, people might be hostile, and they don't They they [00:19:00] feel that you're representing them. Oh, that's OK. Just to get out. Do you know Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I, um I I can understand. Like when When I was struggling with um, my sense of identity. I was like, Well, why are they be behaving like that? Like that? Um, that's not doing me any favours by, like, being so flamboyant or like or whatever, but, um, and And maybe it's just in more recently when, um, I've [00:19:30] had the privilege of being involved in more, um, and, like, things like, um, like you and, um, forums of a discussion of, um had the opportunity to do a lot of learning And, um, and a lot of self reflection. And yeah, so is this stuff about Wellington's Queer Communities or queer community? Um, that you'd like to see change or like it to shuffle towards or, um, just happy doing its thing? [00:20:00] Yeah. I, I suppose I, um I would like that. I would like there to be a lot of, um, more more celebration of variety within our community. Um and, um, more uh, um, tolerance of variety within our community. Um, um, maybe, um, [00:20:30] that just it has to do with, um the the time that we're in that, um, because I suppose it's in the last sort of 20 years that people, um that queer people have been able to, um, sort of, um, be more, um, present and be more visible. So there there's gonna be some growing pains, and we as, um as a people for working things out. And, [00:21:00] yeah, how do you find other queer people or gay people in Wellington? Is it just around bars and nightclubs or, um, we've just got a group of friends that kind of Yeah, it's, um, I I the the circle in in which I sort of operate Now, I was introduced through a friend. I went to drama school with, [00:21:30] um and but I There's, um I'm sure there's lots of entry points. Um, sure is the gave us. I know that's not everyone's sort of thing. It's not, um, I. I really struggle with, um, striking up conversations and gave us um and yeah, I suppose, um, there, uh, once there are so many things actually going [00:22:00] on in the community that if, um, um, maybe, uh, I can't even actually remember any of the names. Now, if you look in the gay newspapers or on the websites and things or, um uh, you can sort of these film festivals and, yeah, stuff like that Um, yeah, I just found my injury point through friendships. So you socialise, and you have your kind of circle of of queer friends and stuff that you do and that kind of thing. [00:22:30] Do you do other stuff kind of community work within queer community or, um, yeah, I've, um it's, um, been quite important to me to sort of get involved. I've, um And there's a lot of opportunity for that, uh, to volunteer for things. Um, I have I did face painting at, um, out on the square. And I've done really mundane things like rap condoms, and [00:23:00] but useful and important. Um, and that that's really fun as well, because, um, that that was in the, um, putting condoms and packets was, um, in prep for out of the square as well. And it's, um that was really fun and that you got to sort of sit down and do repetitive tasks with people and just chat. Um, I've also been involved in uni, which, um, actually is a perfect way to meet people. Like I believe I [00:23:30] overlooked that before. Um, if you're a student, um, uni, which is sort of a, um a, um uh, you know, um, Victoria based, um, social group for queer people. And there's just evening movie evenings or lots of, um uh, social events. Um, I got involved in some queer mentoring, um, through uni as well. [00:24:00] Uh, and some mentoring with BG I which, um, isn't, um, queer related. But, um, I did a lot of useful learning that that has will serve me and other in queer areas as well. Through that, Um, yeah. So there's a lot of kind of, I guess that would be quite a supportive role. And so you hear people today and they say things like, Oh, well, you know, homosexual law reform [00:24:30] was ages ago. Blah, blah, blah. Um, is there? Yeah. Is there still a need for queer support? And is this still homophobia? Um, totally, Uh um, especially at the sort of youth level. Like if you're supporting the youth, you're empowering them to, um to, um have well-being and to be, um and and like in every area of their life, not just their, um, how how they identify. [00:25:00] But, um, I just think it's so important that at when, um with young people to make sure that they have it? Um, yeah, they They're just so empowered to feel good about themselves. And no matter, like, no matter what, whether they um, yeah, you said a while back earlier on in the interview that when you were going through puberty or hormonal, you were You were kind of liking liking boys and [00:25:30] girls or men and women. And part of that was about with the woman, at least was was about families. Do you still was that still relevant? Now, do you still think about families now, or, um, yeah, I, uh it's, uh, um um, a subject that I sort of I know a lot of thinking about. And I may I may, um I, I don't struggle with it, but, um, I'm always sort of, um my opinion is always sort of changing. I know that if, um, if I [00:26:00] want a family like I, I know I can have a family. I just, um I know that it it'll be different. Um, all right. There's a play called, um cherish by, um I can't remember his name, but it was, um, a local writer. And it was it, um, circa theatre. And it's, um it's sort of about and [00:26:30] that I think maybe with our generation in particular with my generation, there's a sense that you can get whatever you want. And, um, and maybe within, um, older generations, Um, there there's, um, a sense of like you You can't always get what you want, which is the light of the play, which is a rolling stones. Um, but, um, and I think that there's a, um there's a balance with it. And there's, um I I've [00:27:00] after reading that play I found found it quite a traumatic experience. And I was really, um, upset that, um that I wouldn't be able to, you know, and this might not be able to get exactly what I want. But, um, the the whole point of of the play was, um, that you should, um, cherish, uh, the, um these maybe things that, um, you don't have access to or that you're denied because they shape you. And, um and, um, [00:27:30] that while I might not be able to, um, have the, um the, uh the vision of a family that I, um that I grew up wanting, um, I'm I can have, um something very similar to that. And which is, um um um maybe I I'm not I'm not articulating myself here really special in its own way, I guess. And yeah. Yes. Cool. [00:28:00] So what are your plans in the next? Maybe it's premature, but kind of plans for the future. Do you have to stay in Wellington and continue kind of community stuff or Yeah, totally. Um, are you going to go to Hollywood and be a mermaid? I haven't. I've never um maybe that's something I should look into in the near future. Dressing up as a mermaid and loving out my childhood. Um, I I'm always, um, [00:28:30] wanting to be more involved in, um, queer stuff. Like, um, uh, when I went when I sort of, um, got in when I was able to attend, and far out was that 2008. It was a while ago. I can't actually remember when it was, um, that was, uh, um, something that I, um that I always remember And, um, things like that that they're just [00:29:00] so empowering and so good for, um, your spirit and for your well being. Um, I don't think I even if I do a flip and become straight like, um, apparently I have the potential to, um Well, I think even if I, um, I'm always going to be queer if whether I'm, um in a, um, a heterosexual relationship [00:29:30] or not. And, um, even if I, um, I, um, did become, um, II, I was, um, wanted to be with someone a woman. I think I would always want to be involved in the really involved in the queer community. And I would always identify as being queer. It's I'm just It's something that I, um that I really cherish. Yeah, and something that I really try to celebrate in my life.
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